One more comment and then I will fade into the thunderstorms......
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's. 2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be graded with that label 3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special 4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???) 5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind
<< <i>One more comment and then I will fade into the thunderstorms......
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's. 2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be sent in as such 3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special 4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???) 5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind >>
if i was label buyer i would buy the early release label, because it fits the coin. (released within 30 days) first strike i don't care for, because you can make a million coins a month. first strike coins should be ALL coins from the first die.
<< <i>One more comment and then I will fade into the thunderstorms......
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's. 2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be graded with that label 3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special 4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???) 5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind >>
Interesting points. I did not realize there were more ER's graded at this point. Go figure, all of mine are ER!
As for any potential premium, I would bet that it's simple marketing. Most people do not read pop reports each day like we do. It's a special colored label with extra words on it. It's got to be worth more!
on another note, the way NGC is grading these things, I would NOT buy an NGC 70 for $800 without seeing it first. There's a good chance it's really a PCGS 69 which can be had for a LOT less.
The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not?
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
yes they did, but they used several dies to make them, to strong of words to use on label for a coin just being released within 30 days. just the coins from the first die should be first strike. just my opinion.
<< <i>As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
If the mint confirms that they WERE the first coins struck (or at least struck in the first week), and by their variety they are all unique to this time frame, then NGC/PCGS should accept all the non ER/FS back for relabeling as ER/FS......
Just the mints acknowledgement of these being left over dies from last year and an early use of them will make them more valuable in my opinion. But who am I to say?
<< <i> on another note, the way NGC is grading these things, I would NOT buy an NGC 70 for $800 without seeing it first. There's a good chance it's really a PCGS 69 which can be had for a LOT less. >>
I'll repeat my personal experiences about a few coins I crossed from other slabs into PCGS at the January Long Beach show.. no ASEs.. I did not crack them out.. I submitted them and specified the existing grade as the minimum grade..
- an NGC MS67 1949-D Roosevelt dime in an old "fatty" NGC holder, with a gorgeous crescent rainbow in front of FDR's face.. it crossed as PCGS MS67FB.. turning an approximately $150.00 coin into a $375.00 coin (maybe not per reality.. I haven't tried to sell it and don't plan to.. but per the Price Guides.. for whatever the Price Guides are worth.. at the very least, you can use Price Guide values for Insurance purposes..)..
- a SEGS 1914-D Lincoln cent graded VG8.. it crossed at the same grade and is now in a PCGS VG8 slab.. so much for SEGS being a "bottom feeder"..
meanwhile, as I related before, I bought a PCGS PR70DCAM 2006 SF Old Mint $5.00 Gold.. when I got it, and gave it the once-over, i saw a frost-break on the Reverse in one of the building's windows.. with no magification.. you could see it shining out from a foot away.. this coin should NEVER have been graded PR70DCAM by PCGS.. the grader must've been asleep.. I returned it to the seller.. and got a full refund including shipping.. to me, MS70 or PR70 means perfect.. it means no hits, no frost breaks on Proofs.. no visible flaws without magnification.. if i can see a flaw without magnification from a foot away on a 70, that coin should not be in a 70 holder.. you could probably put almost any 70 under enough magnification and find a flaw on it somewhere.. although I own a couple other "modern crap" coins in NGC MS70 slabs ($1 Silver Commemorative Uncs..) .. on which I can find absolutely NO problems of any kind.. no hits, no pinpoint specs.. nothing..
based on my experience of crossing coins into PCGS slabs, I think every one of my 08/07 ASEs in NGC MS69 Early Release slabs would cross as PCGS MS69.. but they would lose their "Early Release" designation which would NOT morph into First Strike designation.. now whether or not "Early Releases" means the same thing as "First Strike" I'll leave to the semantic geniuses.. to me, it's two different companies' way of saying the same thing..
and I also agree there is a certain amount of baloney content in the FS designation anyway.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. yes, there are people to whom these designations mean they'll pay more money for the exact same coin without those words on the label.. the FDA allows a certain percentage of insect parts in Peanut Butter too..
Harv
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I have not given away a 08 rev 07 but if the PCGS MS69's in non first strike start averaging for $1,000, I will give one away. If that happens, someone remind me because I will not have much time to follow this starting in a week or so.
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
As far as I know, NGC's Early Release is qualified the same as PCGS's First Strike™ however, the two TPG's do not always agree on the cutoff date.
As for folks colecting First Strike™ slabbed coins, the label has exactly the same merit as a 2006-W 20th Anniversary label whic folks do pay extra for.
But lets please not get into a First Strike™ discussion and run the risk of getting this "history" making thread blown away!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
>>
yeah, I'll get picky, and ask that you kindly do not put words in my mouth.. I did not say "First Strike*S*"..
and PCGS, in their own glossary, defines "First Strike" thusly:
QUOTE::
First Strike (TM) Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation.
ENDOFQUOTE.
so I'm going by their definition, not one I made up out of thin air.. and the way they define it refers to many coins of any given issue, not just one.. now.. whether or not "First Strike" SHOULD be applied only to the first coin struck off the first die, and not to coin*S* delivered between two dates you can argue with them, if you want to try to convince them to change what it means..
Harv
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Over the past two weeks the mint has increased its weekly production of 2008-W SAEs to about 4,400 coins / week (avg). As such, I'm now projecting a 2008-W Unc SAE year-end production figure between 400,000-415,000 coins. Of course this is subject to change as the weekly mint production rate changes.
If this projected year-end production figure holds, and the 47K mint estimate for the 08 rev of 07 remains, then the 07 error/variety will represent about 11-11.7% of the total 08-W production figure.
Lastly, I've accounted for 17,428 of the 07 error/variety coins from PCGS, NGC, & ANACS grading stats. I'll provide the updated count details & graph at the end of this month...
Speculators, "Start your engines..."
BTW, if anyone has a way of getting current stats for the 07 error/variety coins ANACS graded I'd like to get that info (and the effective data date). The last information came via a report in Coin World as of 5/28/08. Thank you.
Over the past two weeks the mint has increased its weekly production of 2008-W SAEs to about 4,400 coins / week (avg). As such, I'm now projecting a 2008-W Unc SAE year-end production figure between 400,000-415,000 coins. Of course this is subject to change as the weekly mint production rate changes.
If this projected year-end production figure holds, and the 47K mint estimate for the 08 rev of 07 remains, then the 07 error/variety will represent about 11-11.7% of the total 08-W production figure.
Lastly, I've accounted for 17,428 of the 07 error/variety coins from PCGS, NGC, & ANACS grading stats. I'll provide the updated count details & graph at the end of this month...
Speculators, "Start your engines..."
BTW, if anyone has a way of getting current stats for the 07 error/variety coins ANACS graded I'd like to get that info (and the effective data date). The last information came via a report in Coin World as of 5/28/08. Thank you. >>
I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
<< <i>I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
Joe >>
I have been using the total 2008-W Unc production mint stats published on the Numismaster website. Presently, the production for 2008-W coins is shown as 338,987. There does not appear to be a separate listing for the 08 annual dollar set in these stats, and if there were, it would not be clear if that production quanity is part of the 338,987 or in addition to.
Yet, you identify an issue that is worth further research... Until, I can get a definitive answer from Mr. Harper, or the Mint, I'll assume the 08 annual set production is a subset of the published 2008-W Unc production mint stats.
<< <i> I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
Joe >>
I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... I checked several links there - especially "Annual Sets", Presidential Dollars, & American Eagles. I also tried searching the site using "Annual dollar set". Nothing was found.
A friend of mine's order keeps getting moved ahead. Why don't they just say that they are not going to deliver them. As far as this years goes, I will be surprised if they make them. Time is flying and they will need to start making the 09's shortly.
<< <i>A friend of mine's order keeps getting moved ahead. Why don't they just say that they are not going to deliver them. As far as this years goes, I will be surprised if they make them. Time is flying and they will need to start making the 09's shortly. >>
I noticed a couple of people mention this same issue.
I ordered 10 on 6/17 2008 and received them on 6/20 2008.
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07???
<< <i>I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... >>
'cuz it's not available yet...you can still buy the 2007 set though >>
Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
Guess it's possible the 2008 sets could have a '07 reverse ASE when they come out, but I would bet the mint has checked them for the error. Especially if they were made earlier this year and then stocked somewhere waiting for the 2007's to sell out.
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07??? >>
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida..
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07??? >>
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07??? >>
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
So...do you regret buying one? >>
Tony, I Have no Regrets in Buying ONE at the price i Paid. As i said Before,I Have 3 First Place ASE Registry Sets That will Need this Piece to maintain My Registry Position. By getting at Least one, i can sit back and Watch this Play out and No matter the Outcome, I'll be assured at Least One Set will Continue on. Don't get me wrong Tony. I'm an ASE Guy and have gotten ripped on the Boards for that alone in the Past,IE: The Milk Spot Issue,Modern Crap, You Name it. I Only posted my opinion based on The Factual History of These Eagles. There's no sense going over it all again,but you all know there are buy it Now's sitting there right now and i don't see anybody beating down the doors to get them. The Prices have also been coming down on the pieces offered. Some Buy it Nows are actually LOWER then Some offers that were made a few weeks ago. It's just what happens. Ray in Florida.
I just receieved my grades from ATS on my last 5 2008/2007 Reverse.
They all went MS70
Hopefully, I will be buying 5 more raw next week. It is getting tougher to find nice raw ones at a decent price. (On the Bay) I still have 2 more cash back's to take advantage of.
The last NGC 70's I sold were in the $680 range now it seems they are running in the $750 range. It appears the 70's are increasing and the 69's are selling around raw prices or less. My last check there was 14 NGC MS70's on the Bay so I will hold these at least a week or so.
I think these will continue upward swing, with 70's doing better than 69's.
There is always a time to buy and a time to sell. I wish everyone wisdom in their handling of these coins.
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
>>
yeah, I'll get picky, and ask that you kindly do not put words in my mouth.. I did not say "First Strike*S*"..
and PCGS, in their own glossary, defines "First Strike" thusly:
QUOTE::
First Strike (TM) Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation.
ENDOFQUOTE.
so I'm going by their definition, not one I made up out of thin air.. and the way they define it refers to many coins of any given issue, not just one.. now.. whether or not "First Strike" SHOULD be applied only to the first coin struck off the first die, and not to coin*S* delivered between two dates you can argue with them, if you want to try to convince them to change what it means..
Harv >>
Nobody put words in your mouth Harv. Here, I'll quote the entire sentence:
"and I also agree there is a certain amount of baloney content in the FS designation anyway.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. yes, there are people to whom these designations mean they'll pay more money for the exact same coin without those words on the label.. the FDA allows a certain percentage of insect parts in Peanut Butter too.. "
<< <i>As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766 MS67=1 MS68=3 MS69=2871 MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766 MS67=1 MS68=3 MS69=2871 MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something. >>
With all due respect Lee, it's impossible to know what really drives prices...and it's not always the supply quantity. It is what it is...and right now, on ebay....the prices are what they are...as I've been saying for weeks, NGC 70 ERs have been getting more and more scarce, and as such, prices seem to be getting higher and higher.
Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? ! >>
Good morning John. Hopefully it just took the scenic route and wouldn't it be great if you submit these and get back all FS MS 70's!?
I am back as an owner again (just one though still). My story is pretty short. I bought from MCM when the price shipped was $125 (NGC ER MS69). I sold when the market seemed to be on the teetering edge of coming back for $520.
Last night I was able to buy a PCGS FS MS 69 for just under $500.00, and with my 10% discount, and 3% cash back, the buy price was about $435.00. Counting my ebay fees for selling the first one, I am probably into this PCGS FS 69 for around 75-80 bucks.
<< <i>Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John >>
I just received 10 of the xa1's I ordered in feburary. They must have got lost.
<< <i>Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John >>
Just checked on my order and it shows to have been mailed today too! Maybe the 2008 sets are ready now.
<< <i> Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766 MS67=1 MS68=3 MS69=2871 MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something. >>
With a population of only 1, its clear that the MS67's will be the rare ones and be of the highest value in the future. I think I'll start scuffing up my raw's before I get em graded.
I won't be home until 7:30 or so this evening. If I did get something it'll have to wait until tomorrow because my mailbox doesn't hold packages. If there IS a package from the Mint IN my mailbox, it had better be the 3 '08W's I ordered this week (they will fit) or I fear we didn't get the answer we want
Comments
43 BINS
are any of the ridiculous BINS actually selling?
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
Nice!
Edited to also add this one from yesterday (also non ER)
Nice #2
<< <i>Is this a start of the climb again???? Or just a lucky seller (not me)? (Non ER 70)
Nice! >>
start of a climb, the true value will come early october. when the leaves fall, collecters come back inside for the winter, prices will really rise.
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's.
2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be graded with that label
3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special
4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???)
5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind
<< <i>One more comment and then I will fade into the thunderstorms......
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's.
2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be sent in as such
3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special
4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???)
5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind
if i was label buyer i would buy the early release label, because it fits the coin. (released within 30 days)
first strike i don't care for, because you can make a million coins a month. first strike coins should be ALL coins from the first die.
<< <i>One more comment and then I will fade into the thunderstorms......
1) There are over 1000 more ER's graded than non-ER's.
2) The 08/07's were probably all struck during the same time frame but the ER's graded as such because they were recognized early enough to be graded with that label
3) Even if another 1000 show up to be graded this will not make the ER's any more special
4) Why then is there a premium for ER's ??? (Psych issues?? Habit???)
5) Errr... an ER sold yesterday for $50 less than the 2 brown labels....Never mind
Interesting points. I did not realize there were more ER's graded at this point. Go figure, all of mine are ER!
As for any potential premium, I would bet that it's simple marketing. Most people do not read pop reports each day
like we do. It's a special colored label with extra words on it. It's got to be worth more!
on another note, the way NGC is grading these things, I would NOT buy an NGC 70 for $800 without seeing it first.
There's a good chance it's really a PCGS 69 which can be had for a LOT less.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not?
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
yes they did, but they used several dies to make them, to strong of words to use on label for a coin just being released within 30 days. just the coins from the first die should be first strike. just my opinion.
<< <i>As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
If the mint confirms that they WERE the first coins struck (or at least struck in the first week), and by their variety they are all unique to this time frame, then NGC/PCGS should accept all the non ER/FS back for relabeling as ER/FS......
That would make a mess with prices..
Just a thought
<< <i>The raw one just closed for $238. >>
Yes and I bought it!
How's this for nostalgia!
<< <i>
on another note, the way NGC is grading these things, I would NOT buy an NGC 70 for $800 without seeing it first.
There's a good chance it's really a PCGS 69 which can be had for a LOT less. >>
I'll repeat my personal experiences about a few coins I crossed from other slabs into PCGS at the January Long Beach show.. no ASEs.. I did not crack them out.. I submitted them and specified the existing grade as the minimum grade..
- an NGC MS67 1949-D Roosevelt dime in an old "fatty" NGC holder, with a gorgeous crescent rainbow in front of FDR's face.. it crossed as PCGS MS67FB.. turning an approximately $150.00 coin into a $375.00 coin (maybe not per reality.. I haven't tried to sell it and don't plan to.. but per the Price Guides.. for whatever the Price Guides are worth.. at the very least, you can use Price Guide values for Insurance purposes..)..
- a SEGS 1914-D Lincoln cent graded VG8.. it crossed at the same grade and is now in a PCGS VG8 slab.. so much for SEGS being a "bottom feeder"..
meanwhile, as I related before, I bought a PCGS PR70DCAM 2006 SF Old Mint $5.00 Gold.. when I got it, and gave it the once-over, i saw a frost-break on the Reverse in one of the building's windows.. with no magification.. you could see it shining out from a foot away.. this coin should NEVER have been graded PR70DCAM by PCGS.. the grader must've been asleep.. I returned it to the seller.. and got a full refund including shipping.. to me, MS70 or PR70 means perfect.. it means no hits, no frost breaks on Proofs.. no visible flaws without magnification.. if i can see a flaw without magnification from a foot away on a 70, that coin should not be in a 70 holder.. you could probably put almost any 70 under enough magnification and find a flaw on it somewhere.. although I own a couple other "modern crap" coins in NGC MS70 slabs ($1 Silver Commemorative Uncs..) .. on which I can find absolutely NO problems of any kind.. no hits, no pinpoint specs.. nothing..
based on my experience of crossing coins into PCGS slabs, I think every one of my 08/07 ASEs in NGC MS69 Early Release slabs would cross as PCGS MS69.. but they would lose their "Early Release" designation which would NOT morph into First Strike designation.. now whether or not "Early Releases" means the same thing as "First Strike" I'll leave to the semantic geniuses.. to me, it's two different companies' way of saying the same thing..
and I also agree there is a certain amount of baloney content in the FS designation anyway.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. yes, there are people to whom these designations mean they'll pay more money for the exact same coin without those words on the label.. the FDA allows a certain percentage of insect parts in Peanut Butter too..
Harv
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
As far as I know, NGC's Early Release is qualified the same as PCGS's First Strike™ however, the two TPG's do not always agree on the cutoff date.
As for folks colecting First Strike™ slabbed coins, the label has exactly the same merit as a 2006-W 20th Anniversary label whic folks do pay extra for.
But lets please not get into a First Strike™ discussion and run the risk of getting this "history" making thread blown away!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
>>
yeah, I'll get picky, and ask that you kindly do not put words in my mouth.. I did not say "First Strike*S*"..
and PCGS, in their own glossary, defines "First Strike" thusly:
QUOTE::
First Strike (TM)
Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation.
ENDOFQUOTE.
so I'm going by their definition, not one I made up out of thin air.. and the way they define it refers to many coins of any given issue, not just one.. now.. whether or not "First Strike" SHOULD be applied only to the first coin struck off the first die, and not to coin*S* delivered between two dates you can argue with them, if you want to try to convince them to change what it means..
Harv
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Over the past two weeks the mint has increased its weekly production of 2008-W SAEs to about 4,400 coins / week (avg). As such, I'm now projecting a 2008-W Unc SAE year-end production figure between 400,000-415,000 coins. Of course this is subject to change as the weekly mint production rate changes.
If this projected year-end production figure holds, and the 47K mint estimate for the 08 rev of 07 remains, then the 07 error/variety will represent about 11-11.7% of the total 08-W production figure.
Lastly, I've accounted for 17,428 of the 07 error/variety coins from PCGS, NGC, & ANACS grading stats. I'll provide the updated count details & graph at the end of this month...
Speculators, "Start your engines..."
BTW, if anyone has a way of getting current stats for the 07 error/variety coins ANACS graded I'd like to get that info (and the effective data date). The last information came via a report in Coin World as of 5/28/08. Thank you.
<< <i>For those who may be interested...
Over the past two weeks the mint has increased its weekly production of 2008-W SAEs to about 4,400 coins / week (avg). As such, I'm now projecting a 2008-W Unc SAE year-end production figure between 400,000-415,000 coins. Of course this is subject to change as the weekly mint production rate changes.
If this projected year-end production figure holds, and the 47K mint estimate for the 08 rev of 07 remains, then the 07 error/variety will represent about 11-11.7% of the total 08-W production figure.
Lastly, I've accounted for 17,428 of the 07 error/variety coins from PCGS, NGC, & ANACS grading stats. I'll provide the updated count details & graph at the end of this month...
Speculators, "Start your engines..."
BTW, if anyone has a way of getting current stats for the 07 error/variety coins ANACS graded I'd like to get that info (and the effective data date). The last information came via a report in Coin World as of 5/28/08. Thank you. >>
I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
Joe
<< <i>I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
Joe >>
I have been using the total 2008-W Unc production mint stats published on the Numismaster website. Presently, the production for 2008-W coins is shown as 338,987. There does not appear to be a separate listing for the 08 annual dollar set in these stats, and if there were, it would not be clear if that production quanity is part of the 338,987 or in addition to.
Yet, you identify an issue that is worth further research... Until, I can get a definitive answer from Mr. Harper, or the Mint, I'll assume the 08 annual set production is a subset of the published 2008-W Unc production mint stats.
<< <i> I haven't followed your projections but did you include the 100,000 in the 08 Annual dollar set?
Joe >>
I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... I checked several links there - especially "Annual Sets", Presidential Dollars, & American Eagles. I also tried searching the site using "Annual dollar set". Nothing was found.
<< <i>I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... >>
'cuz it's not available yet...you can still buy the 2007 set though
<< <i>There are still people waiting for delivery of their 2007 annual dollar series sets never mind the 2008 sets. >>
I had 12 more ordered and got tired of waiting....cancelled them about a month ago
<< <i>A friend of mine's order keeps getting moved ahead. Why don't they just say that they are not going to deliver them. As far as this years goes, I will be surprised if they make them. Time is flying and they will need to start making the 09's shortly. >>
I noticed a couple of people mention this same issue.
I ordered 10 on 6/17 2008 and received them on 6/20 2008.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... >>
'cuz it's not available yet...you can still buy the 2007 set though >>
Well, I guess I don't need to worry about them affecting my projected year-end 08-W Unc SAE production number until later...
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07???
<< <i>
<< <i>I just checked the US Mint's website and was not able to find any product listing for a 2008 Annual dollar set... >>
'cuz it's not available yet...you can still buy the 2007 set though >>
Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
Guess it's possible the 2008 sets could have a '07 reverse ASE when they come out, but I would bet the mint has checked them for the error. Especially if they were made earlier this year and then stocked somewhere waiting for the 2007's to sell out.
<< <i>
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07???
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida..
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07???
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
So...do you regret buying one?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The first strike PCGS 70's only have a population of 166 and will be a big deal by the end of the year. Today's prices for them are a relative bargain.
As far as first strikes go, the mint says they made the o8/o7's first, so in reality they are first strikes. Are they not? >>
Past FS PCGS have faded as time has gone by..i. e . 2006 Gold Buffalo...2006 20th Anniv sets.. will history do the same to the 2008/07???
As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
So...do you regret buying one? >>
Tony, I Have no Regrets in Buying ONE at the price i Paid. As i said Before,I Have 3 First Place ASE Registry Sets That will Need this Piece to maintain My Registry Position. By getting at Least one, i can sit back and Watch this Play out and No matter the Outcome, I'll be assured at Least One Set will Continue on. Don't get me wrong Tony. I'm an ASE Guy and have gotten ripped on the Boards for that alone in the Past,IE: The Milk Spot Issue,Modern Crap, You Name it. I Only posted my opinion based on The Factual History of These Eagles. There's no sense going over it all again,but you all know there are buy it Now's sitting there right now and i don't see anybody beating down the doors to get them. The Prices have also been coming down on the pieces offered. Some Buy it Nows are actually LOWER then Some offers that were made a few weeks ago. It's just what happens. Ray in Florida.
They all went MS70
Hopefully, I will be buying 5 more raw next week. It is getting tougher to find nice raw ones at a decent price. (On the Bay) I still have 2 more cash back's to take advantage of.
The last NGC 70's I sold were in the $680 range now it seems they are running in the $750 range. It appears the 70's are increasing and the 69's are selling around raw prices or less. My last check there was 14 NGC MS70's on the Bay so I will hold these at least a week or so.
I think these will continue upward swing, with 70's doing better than 69's.
There is always a time to buy and a time to sell.
I wish everyone wisdom in their handling of these coins.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. >>
Actually Harv, if you're going to get picky, the Label States "First Strike" not "First Strikes" so this mean that only 1 coin would actually qualify.
>>
yeah, I'll get picky, and ask that you kindly do not put words in my mouth.. I did not say "First Strike*S*"..
and PCGS, in their own glossary, defines "First Strike" thusly:
QUOTE::
First Strike (TM)
Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation.
ENDOFQUOTE.
so I'm going by their definition, not one I made up out of thin air.. and the way they define it refers to many coins of any given issue, not just one.. now.. whether or not "First Strike" SHOULD be applied only to the first coin struck off the first die, and not to coin*S* delivered between two dates you can argue with them, if you want to try to convince them to change what it means..
Harv >>
Nobody put words in your mouth Harv. Here, I'll quote the entire sentence:
"and I also agree there is a certain amount of baloney content in the FS designation anyway.. it should only apply to coins struck off the first die.. yes, there are people to whom these designations mean they'll pay more money for the exact same coin without those words on the label.. the FDA allows a certain percentage of insect parts in Peanut Butter too.. "
<< <i>As a Follow up to Bestday,I want To Point out As of Today,July 24,2008 The Population Report for the 2006-W ASE in PCGS MS70 is 239 and in the Price Guide for $700.00. This one started out with a population around 60 in MS70 and was going for Double today's Price. Now you can't Give them away. Soo with the 2008-W FS Reverse of 07 in PCGS 70's Population at 166 already,there's not much difference in that respect. Also there's some PCGS MS70's with Buy it Now's just sitting on E-bay about to Expire. I Wonder why that is? Historically,after these Eagles Soar,they almost always Crash and Burn. Everyone's got their own opinion, I just base mine on Historical Trends. Ray in Florida.. >>
Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766
MS67=1
MS68=3
MS69=2871
MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766
MS67=1
MS68=3
MS69=2871
MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something. >>
With all due respect Lee, it's impossible to know what really drives prices...and it's not always the supply quantity. It is what it is...and right now, on ebay....the prices are what they are...as I've been saying for weeks, NGC 70 ERs have been getting more and more scarce, and as such, prices seem to be getting higher and higher.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? ! >>
Good morning John. Hopefully it just took the scenic route and wouldn't it be great if you submit these and get back all FS MS 70's!?
Last night I was able to buy a PCGS FS MS 69 for just under $500.00, and with my 10% discount, and 3% cash back, the buy price was about $435.00. Counting my ebay fees for selling the first one, I am probably into this PCGS FS 69 for around 75-80 bucks.
<< <i>Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John >>
I just received 10 of the xa1's I ordered in feburary. They must have got lost.
<< <i>Somehow I missed the 2007 dollar sets on the Mint's website but I recently ordered some after reading about them in another thread (product number XA1). Surely they are still delivering them since they have already pulled the money from my bank.
I ordered one of these XA1s on 3/17/08. I'd forgotten about it as it never shipped. Just checked my order status and it's showing shipped on 7/25. How's that for speedy Mint service? ! ? ! ? !
Regards, John >>
Just checked on my order and it shows to have been mailed today too! Maybe the 2008 sets are ready now.
<< <i>I received mine last year also but it is the people that ordered late that have not received them. >>
Didn't the mint used to start minting collector coins a few months early. I.E. some 2009-dated coins would come out later this fall/early winter?
Now we are 8 months into the FOLLOWING year and they still can't ship last year's annual dollar sets? Geez.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
with discount under $700......
<< <i>
<< <i>
Great observations Ray! I just hope that folks don't tie up too much money in these otherwise it's gonna hurt! The NGC 70's can't possibly hold their value if NGC continues to hand them out.
Oops! Too Late. NGC MS70's already outnumber the NGC MS69's.
2008 W EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 MS 5766
MS67=1
MS68=3
MS69=2871
MS70=2891
Now thats gotta say something. >>
With a population of only 1, its clear that the MS67's will be the rare ones and be of the highest value in the future. I think I'll start scuffing up my raw's before I get em graded.
PS Check your mail yet today Lope?
Regular 2008's:
EAGLE S$1 ..............................MS 27202 1 1 2 8 71 24944 2175
2008 EAGLE S$1 EARLY RELEASES MS 46599 4 43 42376 4176
10 times more 69's than 70's both regular and ER (70's last number, 69's the next to last with a 64 and 65 thrown in as POP 1)
EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007 ..........................MS 5766 1 3 2871 2891
2008 W EAGLE REV OF 07 S$1 EARLY RELEASES MS 6844 1 3752 3091
I won't be home until 7:30 or so this evening. If I did get something it'll have to wait until tomorrow
because my mailbox doesn't hold packages. If there IS a package from the Mint IN my mailbox, it had
better be the 3 '08W's I ordered this week (they will fit) or I fear we didn't get the answer we want
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
first strike 08rev07
1-68
1500-69's
166-70's
regular strike 08rev07
14-68's
1017-69's
74-70's
regular strike 08/08
5-68's
5518-69's
904-70's