<< <i>I wasn't referring to Damon alone, but also Boggs, Clemens... I don't doubt that money plays a factor, or is even THE factor, but you can hardly call the multitude of players who value the game's history (and this specific franchise's storied history) liars. Also, I never wrote that the Yankee franchise's successful history was the sole reason for players joining the team. What I said is that many professional ballplayers have respect for and value the franchise's many accomplishments-- as embodied by the iconic uniform and the feeling that wearing it gives them. I've known several personally, and they said there's a special feeling in playing at Yankee stadium, in seeing the monuments to Yankee greats. It's probably not unlike the difference between strolling the grounds of an Ivy League campus versus some community college. There can be no debating that the former has a palpable feeling to it that the latter lacks. That's my point. On the topic of money, however, I would hardly cry poverty as a Red Sox fan. Yet if the NY team does have more money, I suppose we can then only ask, "why is it more successful?" >>
OK, that's cool. Heck, even Red Sox fans appreciate the Yankee tradition, and all the great players. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but it is pretty cool. I just don't think players play for NY because of that. I think players follow their desire to provide for themselves and their families. If Mike Lowell found out he could make 45 million playing for the Sox and 65 million playing for NY, he would love the Yankee tradition in a heartbeat.
Money is what the game has become, not the desire to don any particular uniform. Damon was vilified on his return to Boston because he made the statement "I'd never play for the Yankees". Had he not said that, he would still be held in high esteem with the Fenway faithful. We all survived the Clemens and Boggs shift into pinstripes and Pedro going to that other NY team. Life goes on. Dave Roberts BTW, now with the Giants, continues to get a standing O in Fenway for merely stealing a base. If you've never been to a Yankees - Red Sox game in Fenway, you'd be surprised at how well the Yankees players are appreciated, especially the pitchers. I've seen many a game where the Yankee's pitcher being taken out was given a standing O for his efforts...I doubt this would happen in the Bronx.
FWIW, wasn't I who brought up the past (please research the thread), I merely responded.
You cannot compare other than for statistical purposes the incredible run the Yankees have enjoyed over the years and the fabulous players who've played there. That is long ago and far away.
Fact is, the Yankee pitching staff is in dire straights, and King George's minions chose not to bolster the starting lineup. As I stated before, if Pettite or Wang get hurt, the party will for sure be over for the Yankees this year. A shame that Joba has the personal situation in Nebraska with his dad, certainly wish him well. That coupled with Posada's arm put two important Yankee's players on the sidelines.
The biggest damage done to the Yankees this year was letting Torre go the way they did. Pretty much bush league in my book.
As for the Wednesday night game, for those who refer to that as a creaming or slaughter, just shows me you haven't got much of a clue about the game. The horrific performance of Timlin and Tavarez gave you the lead and final win. I suspect Timlin will be gone by year's end. Mussina was toast in the 3rd with a 5-0 lead by the Red Sox...odd you missed commenting on that.
Let's keep it light, this is only BS in cyberspace, no more no less.
Personally, I'm not the type of Yankee fan that wigs out over the Red Sox-Yankee thing-- at least in comparison to my concern with the awful presence of Mussina, Giambi, and Damon. All too old and making way too much! After yesterday I've vowed never again to watch a Mussina start. And Wang doesn't seem to have the ability to grind one out-- he's either smooth sailing or comes completely off the rails. If your team is flawlessly constructed and loses through underachieving or boneheaded mistakes, you can be an angry fan-- but with the glaring holes my team has now, it's easier to be mellow and just watch the games play out.
Didn't signal anyone out, I was purposely vague and spoke only to the issue as I hadn't read the whole thread. Believe me, I know our lower ERA belies serious pitching issues that put the postseason in question at best. You think Wang is good? Stats would seem to say that, but after his performance in two starts (Torre needed a shorter hook or should never have started him the 2nd time) in last year's post-season I'm not his biggest fan. Love the new kids, though. Mussina...I won't even begin. But I will go so far as to say I think he's a stubborn man.
<< <i>Personally, I'm not the type of Yankee fan that wigs out over the Red Sox-Yankee thing-- at least in comparison to my concern with the awful presence of Mussina, Giambi, and Damon. . >>
What are the Yankees options with
A. Giambi ( Do they have someone else who can play the position better ?)
B. Mussina ( Who would take his spot in the rotation ?)
C. Damon (they really don't have another option, do they ? Duncan ?)
TIA, I'm not up on Yankee player development and bench players.
Personally in my mind there is no comparison between the two clubs, Yankee history is more colorful than Bostons as far as "GREAT" players and winning championships go, even the most hard headed Sox fan cant argue with that. BUT at the end of EVERY day we love our Sox as much as you people love your Yankees and we hate the Yankees as much as you hate the Sox.
Let me bring up Ted Williams, as far as both clubs are concerned I think ALL-TIME no Yankee great can hold a candle to him- not talking about just the baseball field but in general- he was the last player to hit for .400, a combat veteran, one of the purest hitters ever to play the game, missed 5 of his best seasons to serve his country and still hit 500 hrs, he was a great role model as well. Ofcourse I dont expect you guys to agree but you need to put him right up their next to the #1 Yankee player in your eyes.
I respect the Yankee tradition as most people do, there is alot to respect- however I dont buy into the fact that recent players who migrated from the Sox to the Yankees did it for the tradition- they wanted to win a championship IE: Boggs and Clemens, it was painfully obvious you guys had a much better team in place at the time these guys jumped ship, Damon obviously did it for the money as Clemens did it after his Astros stint- Im sure part of it had to do with his dislike for the way his Boston career ended and wanted to slap us in the face.
Bottom line we are in the 2000's and so far it has been the time of the Red Sox just like you guys had your time many times before! Its a new season and right now its anyones division- I like our chances though.
<< <i>Let me bring up Ted Williams, as far as both clubs are concerned I think ALL-TIME no Yankee great can hold a candle to him- not talking about just the baseball field but in general- he was the last player to hit for .400, a combat veteran, one of the purest hitters ever to play the game, missed 5 of his best seasons to serve his country and still hit 500 hrs, he was a great role model as well. Ofcourse I dont expect you guys to agree but you need to put him right up their next to the #1 Yankee player in your eyes. >>
I'm going to surprise you, Perkdog. I think that Ted Williams was the best overall hitter ever.
<< <i>Mussina was toast in the 3rd with a 5-0 lead by the Red Sox...odd you missed commenting on that. >>
What's odd about it? Were we even talking about Mussina? He's done as a pitcher. I said this last summer. He's our 5th best starter, and his career is finished.
What's odd is how you don't comment on the other side of items that you brought up. It's all a one sided Yankee bash with you. You said the Yankees pitching is dismal but failled to mention that Boston's team ERA is a half point higher. You rag on Hal Steinbrenner for not trading Hughes for Santana, but you neglect to mention that the Twins wanted our excellent starting centerfielder Melky Cabrera plus a top prospect. You also failed to mention how Boston tried to run the price up on us when they had no intention of making a deal. You act like we threw Torre under a bus. You forgot to mention how the Yanks offered him to be still by far the highest paid manager in baseball.
Big clue, re-read my post. Did I not offer congrats to the Yankees on the Wednesday night win? Yet you think my posts reflect just bashing. Did I not comment on Joba? I only tried to point out that your pitching is DISMAL, AND it is...how'd you do tonight against the Birds? Did I not also say that I thought the treatment of Torre was awful? So, you wanna twist things and think I'm just a basher? Fine with me. And, I do believe King George's sons were not pereceptive enough to pick up better pitching for your team. Now that Mussina has burned out, the rest of the season is obvious. AND, I only brought up the '04 and '07 WS Red Sox wins in response to all the tons of rings and BS posted PRIOR to me. I could care less what the Red Sox did to run up the bid on Santana, means NADA, that's called gamesmanship, happens every day. George had enough coin to sign Santana, and now your'e smarting HUGE in that department.
I suggest you get a life, chill out and read carefully, OR, when you see me post just don't respond. Pretty simple concept. Dump the bashing crap, it only makes you look childish.
<< <i>when you see me post just don't respond. Pretty simple concept. Dump the bashing crap, it only makes you look childish. >>
You're an Axtell clone so ignoring you won't be a problem. I thought we were done with "people" like that. The immature child here is you. Refer back to your initial bash post which served no purpose whatsoever but to attack. Go away troll. We don't need your kind here.
I see you have proven you are incapable of civil discourse in this thread, now resulting in a personal attack on me. You are obviously unable to take a few jabs over a baseball game or your team. You remind me of most Yankees fans who think they have a certain seasonal right of expectation of their team's performance and can't handle it when there is obvious trouble within the pinstripe organization. You even blame the Red Sox management for inflating the price for Santana...blame everyone but the Yankee's front office and player performance when the numbers go sour. And, your mentioning of the Red Sox team ERA is a half point higher than the Yankees is beyond laughable...you are really hurting to cling to a mere half point ERA stat that means absolutley nothing.
You may rest assured I will post here as often or as little as I chose. Your personal attack towards me and disparaging comments are noted, and clearly shows the childish attitude you wish to harbor and that you cannot effectively criticize the post and not the poster. Shallow and very telling of your persona.
Should you wish to take this off the boards and into a PM, feel free. I care not to bore the other readers with this silliness.
I think Wang and Pettite are the backbones of your pitching staff. When they're on they're great, but I think Pettite is in his twilight days. Wang will always be ok with a bump here or there. Why on earth you guys didn't bid up the Santana situation is really strange. Surely the Yankees front office have charts and stats galore showing their pitching staff's age, peformance, blah, blah. Santana wouldh've been a great fit. I think with Hughes' loss last night to the Orioles puts him at 0-3. I know Kennedy is 0-1, so the two new guys ain't doin to good. If they blow out early it'll kill the bullpen and Rivera can't save the world...although we do like him in Boston. Kennedy needs the win tonight against the Os.
Giambi and Cano need to get going, especially Giambi or I think he's toast. Jeter of course rock solid, none better at the position. A-Rod is A-Rod, waaaaaaaay overpaid for his performance. Ever figure out the hourly wage of A-Rod based on a 40-hour work week? And Clemen's salary last year was beyond obscene, and yes, I think Roger is guilty. Damon hitting 2 for 5 isn't the gem he may once have been, and he sure can't throw a ball in from center field to get anyone out at 3rd, well, maybe now that he's playing left field. Eventually he'll get to 1st base, then DH then gone.
Still a long season. I'll be at a Yankee's game with the Red Sox in the early July meeting. Maybe Gem Mint will buy me a beer.
I still think the salary they offered Torre was designed to make him decline. Losing him was a severe loss IMO. During his tenure he brought some wonderful moments to the Yankees...with the exception of 2004. That was kindofa destiny year for the Red Sox, after the Yankees slammed them huge in Fenway in game 3 of the playoffs, then the rest was 8-0, just an incredible comeback. Last year they just didn't cut it. I honetly don't think the Yankees will make post season this year, but things can happen and the team could turn around. Kinda like Ortiz last night with the slam, perhaps he's turned the corner.
Hopefully Posada comes back and doesn't throw out his arm, that would be big time bad news. I wonder if they're thinking of Joba becoming a starter in the near future, could be the salvation unless the Kennedy/Hughes connection gets its act together.
Kennedy has pitched better than his numbers would indicate, having watched every pitch thus far. Wang is great over the course of a season, but I believe he's just one of those men who wilt in the spotlight. Pettite will give the Yanks a respectable year. Hughes is concerning me; I was a big fan of his before but he doesn't seem to be trusting his stuff and challenging hitters. Then there is Moose, who has done the team a disservice by coming back when he is such a charred shell of his former self. This stubborn streak was on bold display when he pitched Manny outside all day, netting 2HRs.
As to the Santana issue, I believe the price was indeed too steep-- from a personnel standpoint. Hughes OR Kennedy + Melky was enough. I understand balking at the inclusion of both young arms. Given the hindsight of the moment, we can always second guess the Yanks' front office not pulling the Santana trigger, but at the time it seemed reasonable. I have long lamented the Yankees' most glaring deficiency: a true A+ lights-out starter. For too long they've thrown bad money after once-good marquee names: Kevin Brown, Unit, Rocket... Santana would have been that guy, but we'd then either have 4 starters (the 5th being who-- Igawa?) or 5 starters but no Joba in the pen-- and then how many games would be surrendered by the relief?
As to the ageing offensive players, I was so salted when they gave Damon the extra year(s). Last year should've been his last, IMO. Giambi's unwillingness to EVER go the other way is pretty pathetic. This was a guy who used to bat .300 with regularity-- how he can accept being a .230-.250 hitter is beyond me. Pride in one's craft alone would have motivated him to use the opposite field. Instead, as stubborn as Mussina, Giambi keeps hitting into the shift. That really sticks in my craw as a fan.
As to A-Rod being overpaid, who can really comment on that seeing what these guys all make. Decent pitchers with 3.50 ERAs command retarded sums. He's the best hitter in baseball, imo, but I do believe he swings and misses way too much. I'll always remember looking at the back of Donnie Baseball's cards and his amazing strikeout totals-- usually in the 30's. He was the man.
I think the reason the Yankees did not go after Santana is because the Mets got screwed taking Pedro. Both Pedro and Santana throw too many screwballs, changeups, and high heat. It's bound to wear an arm out.
I think both the Red Sox and Yankees were smart not to deal for Santana.
Heck, I think Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux were both 7-17 and 7-14 in their first seasons in the bigs, so give guys like Kennedy and Hughes, and Lester and Buchholz a chance. They're young, cheap, darn good, and have less mileage on their arms then Santana. Both clubs played it smart IMO.
Don't look now, but Kennedy didn't look too good today and gone in the 3rd. I had to yield the clicker to the wife (she's a huge CSI fan and 10PM was the agreement)...looks like the O's are trouncing the Yanks 6-0. Joba looked deadly, but you can't rely on Joba and Mariano to save the day every day. BTW, Damon looked kinda clumsy at first, appeared to not have a clue. He has certainly declined as a star player IMO. What's with the Posada at 1st base thing? Must be something Girardi is trying to shake up the batting order. I dunno, I wouldn't want his job, pinstripes or not, he's in deep horse crap at this point, and if things don't improve, I suspect King George will have him on somebody's carpet.
As for the money, hell, they're all way, way overpaid. A-Rod getting what? $26m a season? Everyone says $26m a year...it's only for 6 months of playing baseball. The salaries are obscene as you stated with the Unit, Rocket, etc. How much did Rocket make last year with the Yankees??? Roughly 3/4 of a mil per start, how crazy is that? AND, he was almost always gone at or before the 5th inning, not much of a ROI. I don't think Ted Williams ever made more than 100k, even though you can adjust for inflation, he was grossly underpaid compared to today's insane prices.
If they don't square up that pitching problem it could indeed be a very long season for the Yankee faithful. They don't look loose in the dugout, unlike the Red Sox who are always seeming to enjoy the game and each other.
True Fenway Park story...I'm sitting with 4 friends down the right field line, almost straight up from the right field foul pole. A bunch of guys sitting in front of us, two dads with their sons sitting behind us. Zing comes a foul ball from Hensley Mullins (remember him?). We all grab for the ball and it hits the ground and scoots under my seat and the little kid behind me had his glove on the ball, but it bounced off to his right where to young punks were sitting sloshing down the beer. The young guy picks up the ball and keeps it...fair enough. But, he was kinda taunting the kid. Now the little kid is crying because he didn't get the ball. Poor dad is trying to console the kid to no avail. SIX guys in front of me and the FIVE of us start to hound the guy that grabbed the ball and told him to give it to the kid. Punk blows us off...this is the 5th inning and the language and threats deepen, like 11-2. Well, these two guys get up and leave because they know their risking a severe kicked ass after the game for trashing the kid.
ZING!!! Another foul ball comes right at us, only this time it was Don Mattingly. The ball lands at the feet of the guy in front of me. He picks up the ball, reaches between me and my friend and hands the ball to the kid who got screwed from the previous foul ball. The little kid is like now in Christmas mode, his dad is beaming and obviously grateful to the guy in front of me. We give the guy a standing O and his remaining beer purchases are paid for. I tell the kid the other ball was a nobody ball, he got a DON MATTINGLY ball. Kid is hanging on to the ball like it was a new bike.
What are the odds of getting a foul ball to almost the exact same position in two innings???
Great Fenway memory and I swear, a true story. See, Red Sox fans aren't so bad.
Great story. Kennedy got spanked. This is looking pretty bad right now-- it's like he and Hughes are getting worse by the start. Needless to say, not a good trend. Looks like now I'll only watch the Pettite starts!
There are conflicting reports in The Post today about Cash's stance on Joba... I wouldn't be surprised if this is Cashman's last year as GM no matter what. There has been some real big money thrown at a lot of guys the last few years that haven't panned out. When was the last time we had a true impact free agent? I would have been happy if he had stepped down last year and this team had been blown up in an effort to go with more of the younger guys (Yes, I wish Arod had signed somewhere else..) Man, giving a 4 year deal to a 36 year old catcher coming off a career year - I love Jorge and all, but...
As hands on as Hank is he's going to want someone in charge that he can persuade and control - Cashman thinks he knows all after winning some rings on the back of a team Bob Watson assembled. Look at his acquisitions over the last few years - Giambi, AFraud, Pavano, Farnsworth, Damon, Hawkins, The Abreu trade, Unit, all that $$$ to Clemens, re-upping Mo and Jorge at this stage of their careers... A lot of questionable moves there. With all of the resources available to him, these are the guys to go after?
Nice Win last night, I do agree that Cashman may have extended his stay/reign a little too long and is coasting too much. Then again its really tough in new york to give young guys a chance (not impossible see 92-96), but the expectations are so great that its easier to try to plug an overpriced veteran in, than give the young guy the 3 or 4 years they need to come into their own. Cashman most likely is gone after this year or next since Hank is flexing his muscles in the papers now, like father, like son
white sox aren't what they used to be, but we'll take another win!
the thing that really concerns me is this pattern with Mussina, he knew he was moments from losing his spot in the rotation again (see end of last year) so he finally nuts up and pitches like he's supposed to be pitching knowing it will get him a reprieve again, then a few starts from now we'll be seeing the old stubborn, extremely hittable Moose again.
Mike, please do everyone a favor and retire, now!!!
Look for Phil Hughes to have a big game tonight. How do I know? Because I just cut him from my fantasy team. My earlier cuts this year include Justin Upton and Dustin Pedroia.
Nice little streak - I don't know how we've done it without our great 3rd baseman!
not to wish harm on anyone at anytime, but a nice arm twinge couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy last night, maybe it will keep Farnsworth out of the game for a little while,
why can't his mind/ability match his raw arm?, oh man, the possibilities 8-(
nice gem of a game yesterday by wang, but we lost posada for 15 days (possibly longer) still waiting for everything (or something) to click this season, just glad the sox are getting spanked by the rays 8-)
yikes!! players are dropping like flies, is something in the water at the stadium?, just glad no one in the division is on fire or it would be really ugly. lets try to get at least 1 today
Great way to end this weekend with a nice sweep, maybe this is the start of a nice extended roll. however Giambi and Cano need to get it in gear (Giambi especially, unbelievably ugly start)
They might be bringing up Kei Igawa next week also, i hope that minors work has turned him back into the 46 million man they signed.
How long will Igawa stay with the club ? Will he stay as long as he is performing well ? If he does do well, does that mean that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
<< <i>How long will Igawa stay with the club ? Will he stay as long as he is performing well ? If he does do well, does that mean that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
So you've got...............
Wang Mussina Pettite Igawa
Who else ? >>
Guidry. I hear his fastball is as good as Moose's.
<< <i>How long will Igawa stay with the club ? Will he stay as long as he is performing well ? If he does do well, does that mean that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
So you've got...............
Wang Mussina Pettite Igawa
Who else ? >>
Rasner. He got the win the other night in his first start, 2 earned runs in 6 innings, he looked good. He was out almost all of last year.
Hughes is a good pitcher. Remember that Roy Halladay got sent down to the minors after being in the bigs for a bit. He worked on movement and a new delivery. I don't think Hughes is being well coached, but that is up for debate.
Yep that looks right. I really think that Hughes will be an excellent pitcher. I'm not as sure with Kennedy because his stuff isn't anywhere near as good as Hughes plus I don't think he has the right temperment.
So, do you think Molina pulled a "Crash Davis" on Joba? He's got a lot of nerve shaking off a veteran catcher when he has not really established himself yet.
There's no need for panic in Yankeeland. They are actually doing better then last year. Plus you add in the injuries to Jeter, Arod, Posada, and others and you have room for optimism. Their pitching staff is about the same as the beginning of last year, but will really need to step it up in the 2nd half.
Oh no!!! That wasn't the great Joba that served up the 3 run dinger to a pinch hitter last night was it? Gee, I think it was...yup, # 62. Sure did get quiet quickly.
Better clue the front office that Joba is indeed hittable. Could be the pitching staff is coming apart.
It is unthinkable to me that as great as the Yankee's organization is, that the season has begun with two rookies...both have stunk up the ball park. If Wang or Pettite get hurt you might as well hang it up, then again, I already think your season is toast.
Never should have gotten rid of Torre. This season could go down in Yankee's history as the "Curse of Joe".
<< <i>This thread gets more posts from Red Sox "fans" than it does from Yankees fans... >>
C'mon yankee posters. We need your team to get with it. The closer the Yankee and Red Sox are, the better these threads will be. You need two brothers to have a fight. The Red Sox are doing their part. It's like the Yankees are Charlie Brown right now and the Red Sox are Lucy. If the Yankees don't start winning, then who will we have to bicker with all season
Comments
<< <i>I wasn't referring to Damon alone, but also Boggs, Clemens... I don't doubt that money plays a factor, or is even THE factor, but you can hardly call the multitude of players who value the game's history (and this specific franchise's storied history) liars. Also, I never wrote that the Yankee franchise's successful history was the sole reason for players joining the team. What I said is that many professional ballplayers have respect for and value the franchise's many accomplishments-- as embodied by the iconic uniform and the feeling that wearing it gives them. I've known several personally, and they said there's a special feeling in playing at Yankee stadium, in seeing the monuments to Yankee greats. It's probably not unlike the difference between strolling the grounds of an Ivy League campus versus some community college. There can be no debating that the former has a palpable feeling to it that the latter lacks. That's my point. On the topic of money, however, I would hardly cry poverty as a Red Sox fan. Yet if the NY team does have more money, I suppose we can then only ask, "why is it more successful?" >>
OK, that's cool. Heck, even Red Sox fans appreciate the Yankee tradition, and all the great players. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but
it is pretty cool. I just don't think players play for NY because of that. I think players follow their desire to provide for themselves and their families. If Mike Lowell found out he could make 45 million playing for the Sox and 65 million playing for NY, he would love the Yankee tradition in a heartbeat.
FWIW, wasn't I who brought up the past (please research the thread), I merely responded.
You cannot compare other than for statistical purposes the incredible run the Yankees have enjoyed over the years and the fabulous players who've played there. That is long ago and far away.
Fact is, the Yankee pitching staff is in dire straights, and King George's minions chose not to bolster the starting lineup. As I stated before, if Pettite or Wang get hurt, the party will for sure be over for the Yankees this year. A shame that Joba has the personal situation in Nebraska with his dad, certainly wish him well. That coupled with Posada's arm put two important Yankee's players on the sidelines.
The biggest damage done to the Yankees this year was letting Torre go the way they did. Pretty much bush league in my book.
As for the Wednesday night game, for those who refer to that as a creaming or slaughter, just shows me you haven't got much of a clue about the game. The horrific performance of Timlin and Tavarez gave you the lead and final win. I suspect Timlin will be gone by year's end. Mussina was toast in the 3rd with a 5-0 lead by the Red Sox...odd you missed commenting on that.
Let's keep it light, this is only BS in cyberspace, no more no less.
GO RED SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't signal anyone out, I was purposely vague and spoke only to the issue as I hadn't read the whole thread. Believe me, I know our lower ERA belies serious pitching issues that put the postseason in question at best. You think Wang is good? Stats would seem to say that, but after his performance in two starts (Torre needed a shorter hook or should never have started him the 2nd time) in last year's post-season I'm not his biggest fan. Love the new kids, though. Mussina...I won't even begin. But I will go so far as to say I think he's a stubborn man.
<< <i>Personally, I'm not the type of Yankee fan that wigs out over the Red Sox-Yankee thing-- at least in comparison to my concern with the awful presence of Mussina, Giambi, and Damon. . >>
What are the Yankees options with
A. Giambi ( Do they have someone else who can play the position better ?)
B. Mussina ( Who would take his spot in the rotation ?)
C. Damon (they really don't have another option, do they ? Duncan ?)
TIA, I'm not up on Yankee player development and bench players.
Let me bring up Ted Williams, as far as both clubs are concerned I think ALL-TIME no Yankee great can hold a candle to him- not talking about just the baseball field but in general- he was the last player to hit for .400, a combat veteran, one of the purest hitters ever to play the game, missed 5 of his best seasons to serve his country and still hit 500 hrs, he was a great role model as well. Ofcourse I dont expect you guys to agree but you need to put him right up their next to the #1 Yankee player in your eyes.
I respect the Yankee tradition as most people do, there is alot to respect- however I dont buy into the fact that recent players who migrated from the Sox to the Yankees did it for the tradition- they wanted to win a championship IE: Boggs and Clemens, it was painfully obvious you guys had a much better team in place at the time these guys jumped ship, Damon obviously did it for the money as Clemens did it after his Astros stint- Im sure part of it had to do with his dislike for the way his Boston career ended and wanted to slap us in the face.
Bottom line we are in the 2000's and so far it has been the time of the Red Sox just like you guys had your time many times before! Its a new season and right now its anyones division- I like our chances though.
<< <i>Let me bring up Ted Williams, as far as both clubs are concerned I think ALL-TIME no Yankee great can hold a candle to him- not talking about just the baseball field but in general- he was the last player to hit for .400, a combat veteran, one of the purest hitters ever to play the game, missed 5 of his best seasons to serve his country and still hit 500 hrs, he was a great role model as well. Ofcourse I dont expect you guys to agree but you need to put him right up their next to the #1 Yankee player in your eyes. >>
I'm going to surprise you, Perkdog. I think that Ted Williams was the best overall hitter ever.
This is turning into a Yankee-Red Sox love fest now
<< <i>Mussina was toast in the 3rd with a 5-0 lead by the Red Sox...odd you missed commenting on that. >>
What's odd about it? Were we even talking about Mussina? He's done as a pitcher. I said this last summer. He's our 5th best starter, and his career is finished.
What's odd is how you don't comment on the other side of items that you brought up. It's all a one sided Yankee bash with you. You said the Yankees pitching is dismal but failled to mention that Boston's team ERA is a half point higher. You rag on Hal Steinbrenner for not trading Hughes for Santana, but you neglect to mention that the Twins wanted our excellent starting centerfielder Melky Cabrera plus a top prospect. You also failed to mention how Boston tried to run the price up on us when they had no intention of making a deal. You act like we threw Torre under a bus. You forgot to mention how the Yanks offered him to be still by far the highest paid manager in baseball.
Big clue, re-read my post. Did I not offer congrats to the Yankees on the Wednesday night win? Yet you think my posts reflect just bashing. Did I not comment on Joba? I only tried to point out that your pitching is DISMAL, AND it is...how'd you do tonight against the Birds? Did I not also say that I thought the treatment of Torre was awful? So, you wanna twist things and think I'm just a basher? Fine with me. And, I do believe King George's sons were not pereceptive enough to pick up better pitching for your team. Now that Mussina has burned out, the rest of the season is obvious. AND, I only brought up the '04 and '07 WS Red Sox wins in response to all the tons of rings and BS posted PRIOR to me. I could care less what the Red Sox did to run up the bid on Santana, means NADA, that's called gamesmanship, happens every day. George had enough coin to sign Santana, and now your'e smarting HUGE in that department.
I suggest you get a life, chill out and read carefully, OR, when you see me post just don't respond. Pretty simple concept. Dump the bashing crap, it only makes you look childish.
<< <i>when you see me post just don't respond. Pretty simple concept. Dump the bashing crap, it only makes you look childish. >>
You're an Axtell clone so ignoring you won't be a problem. I thought we were done with "people" like that. The immature child here is you. Refer back to your initial bash post which served no purpose whatsoever but to attack. Go away troll. We don't need your kind here.
I see you have proven you are incapable of civil discourse in this thread, now resulting in a personal attack on me. You are obviously unable to take a few jabs over a baseball game or your team. You remind me of most Yankees fans who think they have a certain seasonal right of expectation of their team's performance and can't handle it when there is obvious trouble within the pinstripe organization. You even blame the Red Sox management for inflating the price for Santana...blame everyone but the Yankee's front office and player performance when the numbers go sour. And, your mentioning of the Red Sox team ERA is a half point higher than the Yankees is beyond laughable...you are really hurting to cling to a mere half point ERA stat that means absolutley nothing.
You may rest assured I will post here as often or as little as I chose. Your personal attack towards me and disparaging comments are noted, and clearly shows the childish attitude you wish to harbor and that you cannot effectively criticize the post and not the poster. Shallow and very telling of your persona.
Should you wish to take this off the boards and into a PM, feel free. I care not to bore the other readers with this silliness.
I think Wang and Pettite are the backbones of your pitching staff. When they're on they're great, but I think Pettite is in his twilight days. Wang will always be ok with a bump here or there. Why on earth you guys didn't bid up the Santana situation is really strange. Surely the Yankees front office have charts and stats galore showing their pitching staff's age, peformance, blah, blah. Santana wouldh've been a great fit. I think with Hughes' loss last night to the Orioles puts him at 0-3. I know Kennedy is 0-1, so the two new guys ain't doin to good. If they blow out early it'll kill the bullpen and Rivera can't save the world...although we do like him in Boston. Kennedy needs the win tonight against the Os.
Giambi and Cano need to get going, especially Giambi or I think he's toast. Jeter of course rock solid, none better at the position. A-Rod is A-Rod, waaaaaaaay overpaid for his performance. Ever figure out the hourly wage of A-Rod based on a 40-hour work week? And Clemen's salary last year was beyond obscene, and yes, I think Roger is guilty. Damon hitting 2 for 5 isn't the gem he may once have been, and he sure can't throw a ball in from center field to get anyone out at 3rd, well, maybe now that he's playing left field. Eventually he'll get to 1st base, then DH then gone.
Still a long season. I'll be at a Yankee's game with the Red Sox in the early July meeting. Maybe Gem Mint will buy me a beer.
I still think the salary they offered Torre was designed to make him decline. Losing him was a severe loss IMO. During his tenure he brought some wonderful moments to the Yankees...with the exception of 2004. That was kindofa destiny year for the Red Sox, after the Yankees slammed them huge in Fenway in game 3 of the playoffs, then the rest was 8-0, just an incredible comeback. Last year they just didn't cut it. I honetly don't think the Yankees will make post season this year, but things can happen and the team could turn around. Kinda like Ortiz last night with the slam, perhaps he's turned the corner.
Hopefully Posada comes back and doesn't throw out his arm, that would be big time bad news. I wonder if they're thinking of Joba becoming a starter in the near future, could be the salvation unless the Kennedy/Hughes connection gets its act together.
Girardi has his hands full!!
Enjoy the season.
As to the Santana issue, I believe the price was indeed too steep-- from a personnel standpoint. Hughes OR Kennedy + Melky was enough. I understand balking at the inclusion of both young arms. Given the hindsight of the moment, we can always second guess the Yanks' front office not pulling the Santana trigger, but at the time it seemed reasonable. I have long lamented the Yankees' most glaring deficiency: a true A+ lights-out starter. For too long they've thrown bad money after once-good marquee names: Kevin Brown, Unit, Rocket... Santana would have been that guy, but we'd then either have 4 starters (the 5th being who-- Igawa?) or 5 starters but no Joba in the pen-- and then how many games would be surrendered by the relief?
As to the ageing offensive players, I was so salted when they gave Damon the extra year(s). Last year should've been his last, IMO. Giambi's unwillingness to EVER go the other way is pretty pathetic. This was a guy who used to bat .300 with regularity-- how he can accept being a .230-.250 hitter is beyond me. Pride in one's craft alone would have motivated him to use the opposite field. Instead, as stubborn as Mussina, Giambi keeps hitting into the shift. That really sticks in my craw as a fan.
As to A-Rod being overpaid, who can really comment on that seeing what these guys all make. Decent pitchers with 3.50 ERAs command retarded sums. He's the best hitter in baseball, imo, but I do believe he swings and misses way too much. I'll always remember looking at the back of Donnie Baseball's cards and his amazing strikeout totals-- usually in the 30's. He was the man.
throw too many screwballs, changeups, and high heat. It's bound to wear an arm out.
I think both the Red Sox and Yankees were smart not to deal for Santana.
Heck, I think Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux were both 7-17 and 7-14 in their first seasons in the bigs, so give
guys like Kennedy and Hughes, and Lester and Buchholz a chance. They're young, cheap, darn good, and have less mileage
on their arms then Santana. Both clubs played it smart IMO.
Don't look now, but Kennedy didn't look too good today and gone in the 3rd. I had to yield the clicker to the wife (she's a huge CSI fan and 10PM was the agreement)...looks like the O's are trouncing the Yanks 6-0. Joba looked deadly, but you can't rely on Joba and Mariano to save the day every day. BTW, Damon looked kinda clumsy at first, appeared to not have a clue. He has certainly declined as a star player IMO. What's with the Posada at 1st base thing? Must be something Girardi is trying to shake up the batting order. I dunno, I wouldn't want his job, pinstripes or not, he's in deep horse crap at this point, and if things don't improve, I suspect King George will have him on somebody's carpet.
As for the money, hell, they're all way, way overpaid. A-Rod getting what? $26m a season? Everyone says $26m a year...it's only for 6 months of playing baseball. The salaries are obscene as you stated with the Unit, Rocket, etc. How much did Rocket make last year with the Yankees??? Roughly 3/4 of a mil per start, how crazy is that? AND, he was almost always gone at or before the 5th inning, not much of a ROI. I don't think Ted Williams ever made more than 100k, even though you can adjust for inflation, he was grossly underpaid compared to today's insane prices.
If they don't square up that pitching problem it could indeed be a very long season for the Yankee faithful. They don't look loose in the dugout, unlike the Red Sox who are always seeming to enjoy the game and each other.
True Fenway Park story...I'm sitting with 4 friends down the right field line, almost straight up from the right field foul pole. A bunch of guys sitting in front of us, two dads with their sons sitting behind us. Zing comes a foul ball from Hensley Mullins (remember him?). We all grab for the ball and it hits the ground and scoots under my seat and the little kid behind me had his glove on the ball, but it bounced off to his right where to young punks were sitting sloshing down the beer. The young guy picks up the ball and keeps it...fair enough. But, he was kinda taunting the kid. Now the little kid is crying because he didn't get the ball. Poor dad is trying to console the kid to no avail. SIX guys in front of me and the FIVE of us start to hound the guy that grabbed the ball and told him to give it to the kid. Punk blows us off...this is the 5th inning and the language and threats deepen, like 11-2. Well, these two guys get up and leave because they know their risking a severe kicked ass after the game for trashing the kid.
ZING!!! Another foul ball comes right at us, only this time it was Don Mattingly. The ball lands at the feet of the guy in front of me. He picks up the ball, reaches between me and my friend and hands the ball to the kid who got screwed from the previous foul ball. The little kid is like now in Christmas mode, his dad is beaming and obviously grateful to the guy in front of me. We give the guy a standing O and his remaining beer purchases are paid for. I tell the kid the other ball was a nobody ball, he got a DON MATTINGLY ball. Kid is hanging on to the ball like it was a new bike.
What are the odds of getting a foul ball to almost the exact same position in two innings???
Great Fenway memory and I swear, a true story. See, Red Sox fans aren't so bad.
GL working that pitching thing out, looking kinda dismal.
<< <i>Ramirez just tossed for arguing with ump...gotta feel for the fans who came far and wide just to watch him. >>
I'm sure there are some people in the Red Sox thread who care.
I love Hank.
Cashman Disagrees
As hands on as Hank is he's going to want someone in charge that he can persuade and control - Cashman thinks he knows all after winning some rings on the back of a team Bob Watson assembled. Look at his acquisitions over the last few years - Giambi, AFraud, Pavano, Farnsworth, Damon, Hawkins, The Abreu trade, Unit, all that $$$ to Clemens, re-upping Mo and Jorge at this stage of their careers... A lot of questionable moves there. With all of the resources available to him, these are the guys to go after?
It's time for a changing of the guard.
<< <i>Hank wants Joba starting sooner than later - linky.
I love Hank. >>
Hank's an assbag. So he wants to wear out Joba's arm like Liriano?
I think The Hut is going to be good, but he STILL has not pitched that many MLB innings yet.
Cashman most likely is gone after this year or next since Hank is flexing his muscles in the papers now, like father, like son
the thing that really concerns me is this pattern with Mussina, he knew he was moments from losing his spot in the rotation again (see end of last year)
so he finally nuts up and pitches like he's supposed to be pitching knowing it will get him a reprieve again, then a few starts from now we'll be seeing the old stubborn, extremely hittable Moose again.
Mike, please do everyone a favor and retire, now!!!
Nice little streak - I don't know how we've done it without our great 3rd baseman!
And this from a HUGE Red Sox fan.
No Yankee catcher has ever hit 3 doubles in one game, not even Yogi.
why can't his mind/ability match his raw arm?, oh man, the possibilities 8-(
On to Cleveland!
still waiting for everything (or something) to click this season, just glad the sox are getting spanked by the rays 8-)
lets try to get at least 1 today
They might be bringing up Kei Igawa next week also, i hope that minors work has turned him back into the 46 million man they signed.
Go Yanks!
that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
So you've got...............
Wang
Mussina
Pettite
Igawa
Who else ?
<< <i>How long will Igawa stay with the club ? Will he stay as long as he is performing well ? If he does do well, does that mean
that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
So you've got...............
Wang
Mussina
Pettite
Igawa
Who else ? >>
Guidry. I hear his fastball is as good as Moose's.
<< <i>How long will Igawa stay with the club ? Will he stay as long as he is performing well ? If he does do well, does that mean
that Kennedy stays in AAA ? If he does poorly, does Kennedy get a recall ? Or is someone else going to get a shot ?
BTW, what is your rotation now ? Is Hughes shelved too ?
So you've got...............
Wang
Mussina
Pettite
Igawa
Who else ? >>
Rasner. He got the win the other night in his first start, 2 earned runs in 6 innings, he looked good. He was out almost all of last year.
He worked on movement and a new delivery. I don't think Hughes is being well coached, but that is up for debate.
So the Yankees rotation is now.............
Wang
Pettite
Mussina
Igawa
Rasner
Is that correct ?
to Jeter, Arod, Posada, and others and you have room for optimism. Their pitching staff is about the same as the beginning
of last year, but will really need to step it up in the 2nd half.
Better clue the front office that Joba is indeed hittable. Could be the pitching staff is coming apart.
It is unthinkable to me that as great as the Yankee's organization is, that the season has begun with two rookies...both have stunk up the ball park. If Wang or Pettite get hurt you might as well hang it up, then again, I already think your season is toast.
Never should have gotten rid of Torre. This season could go down in Yankee's history as the "Curse of Joe".
<< <i>This thread gets more posts from Red Sox "fans" than it does from Yankees fans... >>
C'mon yankee posters. We need your team to get with it. The closer the Yankee and Red Sox are, the better these threads will be.
You need two brothers to have a fight. The Red Sox are doing their part. It's like the Yankees are Charlie Brown right now and the
Red Sox are Lucy. If the Yankees don't start winning, then who will we have to bicker with all season