I've been thinking about my next bullion U.S. coin collecting venture. I really liked the fractional plats with their ultra-low mintage. Will the 1oz plats continue to be low mintage? I wonder if they will be diluted through some kind of a set... Any thoughts?
I've been thinking about my next bullion U.S. coin collecting venture. I really liked the fractional plats with their ultra-low mintage. Will the 1oz plats continue to be low mintage? I wonder if they will be diluted through some kind of a set... Any thoughts?
All of the fractionals are not dead - only the collector versions. The regular bullion fractionals of both gold and platinum will continue, and the fractional Proof AGEs will still be around as well. Even though they are "only bullion" they are still collectible, and you may now see some premiums develop for the PCGS-certified fractional coins from prior years.
The 1 oz. Proof Plats will never be as low a mintage as what we've already seen. Without the "W" Uncs and the fractional Proofs to divert funds, I would expect the 1 oz. Proof Plats to pick up some of the slack.
In my opinion, we've just been through the heyday of Modern Bullion coinage. The best thing that the Mint could do for us now is to stabilize and be consistent in their offerings for a couple of decades. As a collector, I just need a little time to regroup so that I can find the ones I'm still missing.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I've been thinking about my next bullion U.S. coin collecting venture. I really liked the fractional plats with their ultra-low mintage. Will the 1oz plats continue to be low mintage? I wonder if they will be diluted through some kind of a set... Any thoughts? >>
Have they picked the final design for 2009 proof plats? If they use the PC version the mintages may be quite low as it was an ugly design.
<<How can the $25 unc. a.g.e. be considered a dog just yet? It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.>>>
Large number in the 8-8-8 sets so total mintage will be high.
Prosperity sales numbers are at 5328 right now. That number might be significant for AGE, but unless there are another 10,000 out there, the prosperity set might still be a good purchase for the buffalo.
My point was that it's still good for the $25 unc eagle too, whose total mintage now sits at 9734 if i'm correct there. It needs to come in under the '07's 13, 358. Are there that may prosperity sets left for sale when people are getting backorder notices?
<< <i><<How can the $25 unc. a.g.e. be considered a dog just yet? It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.>>>
Large number in the 8-8-8 sets so total mintage will be high.
Prosperity sales numbers are at 5328 right now. That number might be significant for AGE, but unless there are another 10,000 out there, the prosperity set might still be a good purchase for the buffalo. >>
Someone had earlier speculated that 8888 prosperity sets were made.
My point was that it's still good for the $25 unc eagle too, whose total mintage now sits at 9734 if i'm correct there. It needs to come in under the '07's 13, 358. Are there that may prosperity sets left for sale when people are getting backorder notices?
I don't have much faith in the $25 uncirculated AGEs, but they aren't something I follow. Do the 2007 coins show a premium over other $25s in the series?
A lot of housekeeping done to the Mint web site today. All of the not available items have been removed. They've finally added the four-coin-set and 1/10 oz platinum proofs to the No Longer Available list. That puts my mind at ease as I kept worrying they would become available again.
I dont think the premiums that great on the 07s but since this is a discontinued coin I would think that would cement whichever ('07 or '08) becomes the key as a long-term hold.
The last 2008 proof gold eagle numbers are very close to the final 2006 and 2007 w gold unc numbers. Since the 2006 and 2007 didn't do much it is speculated the 2008 proof won't do much either.
PS I know one is proof and the other is unc but the 2008 proof sales are not spectacularly low at this point. If the mint does not make 2009 fractional proof eagles then they may do well but that is only speculation.
It's just a little hard to be as enthusiastic about the AGEs in the wake of the platinums, gold buffalos, etc., etc. They might be low mintage for the series, but under the type-coin analysis these don't stick out, and they weren't exactly quick sellouts, which makes me think anyone dedicated to collecting the entire series had plenty of time to buy direct from the Mint. If you enjoy them as a low-mintage example for yourself, that's one thing, but I just doubt these present a great flip opportunity.
<< <i>It's just a little hard to be as enthusiastic about the AGEs in the wake of the platinums, gold buffalos, etc., etc. They might be low mintage for the series, but under the type-coin analysis these don't stick out, and they weren't exactly quick sellouts, which makes me think anyone dedicated to collecting the entire series had plenty of time to buy direct from the Mint. If you enjoy them as a low-mintage example for yourself, that's one thing, but I just doubt these present a great flip opportunity. >>
Especially considering you should have already spent all your money on the plats and buffs.
Very odd to see the 4 coin gold proof set back on for sale. I was wondering if we were going to see some sort of surprise such as this on some of the options.
I agree that it is good to see that the platinum proof and unc options appear to have been removed instead of marked as no longer available. Still, one has to wonder if the Mint will spring a surprise with one of these.......... but I doubt it at this point.
But now I see that ALL the options for the American Eagle W coins are back open!!! Uh oh.... how many orders sitting out there are now going to be cancelled? Or do you thing there may not be too many of theses left??
It all goes to show..... trying to outguess the US Mint is always a gamble. Perhaps all of the options that were posted as "not available" were because of the Mint moving operations, rearranging, etc..... who knows?
OR.... perhaps another Mint screw up and those gold coins really are not available?? who knows??!
Place your bets..... or hold your hand..... or fold??
<< <i>I just cancelled all my AGE orders.....Proofs and UNC's. The more I think about them the less I liked 'em. >>
I'm considering whether to cancel an order I have out for the 4 coin unc set. Very tempted to do so. However, with the upcoming change in US Mint pricing policy, one has to wonder if the price will be going up once that comes into play. In which case, it might be wise to hold with the orders.
I'm confused. I see the uncirculated AGEs available, but not proofs. Anyway, I'm not a big fan. The thing I like about the platinums is the changing reverse, which makes each year its own type coin. That doesn't exist with the AGEs, and absent a large enough collector base to create demand sufficient to drive the price for these up, I think there are better options. Just my opinion; I can certainly imagine the unc AGEs doing well if the numbers stay low, around 6,000 or so. With the proofs, I think the last numbers I saw placed them in the 15,000+ range. I'd rather spend my money on buffalo golds or APEs on the secondary market.
<< <i>I just cancelled all my AGE orders.....Proofs and UNC's. The more I think about them the less I liked 'em. >>
I'm considering whether to cancel an order I have out for the 4 coin unc set. Very tempted to do so. However, with the upcoming change in US Mint pricing policy, one has to wonder if the price will be going up once that comes into play. In which case, it might be wise to hold with the orders.
I'm so confused. !! >>
At $853 gold the 4 coin uncirc set would cost $2097.50 + $235 from present $1862
Yeh, given the new pricing policy.... might be wise to hold on to them at this point yet.
From numismaster.com most recent column:
"Starting Jan. 12, the U.S. Mint has a much more streamlined and flexible approach to pricing gold and platinum collector coins.
"The U.S. Mint is launching a new repricing structure for gold and platinum products," said Deputy Director Andrew D. Brunhart Jan. 7.
The new method addresses problems created in 2008 by rapidly changing bullion prices that caused some lengthy sales suspensions.
Brunhart stressed, "We're being quite responsive to our customers."
He said the new method would offer transparency, greater agility and better customer service.
The Mint will review metal prices weekly and reprice products based on them at 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time each Thursday when necessary based on a five-day average of the a.m. and p.m. price fixes for the metals on the London market taken from the (Thursday to Wednesday period) immediately preceding each Thursday potential change point.
Gold product prices will remain unchanged as long as the metal price on which they are based remains within a $50 price range and platinum within a $100 range.
A price grid will be posted on the Mint's Web site within 30 days so collectors can see how it works.
Brunhart explained that if a product is priced based on gold being in the $850 to $899.99 range, if it falls to $849.99, it would be repriced.
He reminded collectors that the Mint's pricing formula includes not only the components of metal price and a 15 percent margin, but also the cost of manufacturing.
"Sometimes people forget that," he added.
Affected by the new pricing policy for gold will be the Buffalo proof and "W" uncirculated coins, the Celebration Coin, the 8-8-08 Double Prosperity coin, the American Eagle proofs and "W" uncirculated coins, First Spouse proof and uncirculated coins, and the Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens $20.
For platinum the new pricing will affect the American Eagle proof and "W" uncirculated coins and the 10th anniversary set."
My order for the 4 coin gold unc W set was placed on Jan 6th, when everything was assumed to be sold out an no longer available. The the status has now been changed as shown above, in stock and reserved.
So definitely looks like our 2008 W uncs are not sold out. All options are now available again. Total mintage---- totally unknown, and most likely not the very low numbers everyone was hoping for.
Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
<< <i>Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
<< <i>Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Ciao >>
??? Not sure the posts about this on this thread are expressing surprise or outrage.....
??? But merely posting information as it is being found out......
Not sure that qualifies as "Do you guys NOT GET IT???"
Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Fare well, Groht. Fare well in your new job. I'll miss your contributions to the discussion.
The challenge when dealing with the Mint is to interpret the meager clues that escape from their byzantine bureaucracy before the window of opportunity on a coin closes forever. It's a constant challenge and a test of reason.
I'm not sure if I was surprised about the Uncs being taken off of backorder. I was still too confused about why they went backorder in the first place.
I'm curious how long it will be until the Mint reinstates SOME of the fractional coins that they discontinued. For instance, they might have kept the Proof Plat fractionals, since that series was over 10 years old - but they didn't. And yet, they kept the Proof Gold fractionals. I agreed with their elimination of a bunch of stuff, but I don't see the logic of their choices.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Charles Crews ** CU Members that I have had Buy/sell deals with alohagary,dabigkahuna,goldman86,fivecents,endzone,clackamas,ericj96,Bochiman,Wingsrule,adriana,claychaser,holeinone1972,itsnotjustme,MJcoin,Kishul,jsego,TWQG,carlwolfort,jmski52,steelielee,grote15
Look, with the repricing according to melt, the return policy must change at the Mint.
Think about it. If you buy this week & next week the price drops, will you be able to cancel & re-order. Not. The Mint has to revise the return policy Accordingly. No more playing the sales figures.
<< <i>Think about it. If you buy this week & next week the price drops, will you be able to cancel & re-order. Not. The Mint has to revise the return policy Accordingly. >>
But, when has the US Mint been logical?
Mad rush on plat uncs...the US Mint pulls them from sell ..... then reprices LOWER!.....
Limited Plat proofs, lowest EVER...the US Mint pulls them from sell ..... then reprices LOWER!...
Repeat and Rinse for the Buff Uncs...
Repeat and Rinse for the Buff Proofs...
Never, Ever, Never try to apply common business sense to the US Mint!
Comments
All of the fractionals are not dead - only the collector versions. The regular bullion fractionals of both gold and platinum will continue, and the fractional Proof AGEs will still be around as well. Even though they are "only bullion" they are still collectible, and you may now see some premiums develop for the PCGS-certified fractional coins from prior years.
The 1 oz. Proof Plats will never be as low a mintage as what we've already seen. Without the "W" Uncs and the fractional Proofs to divert funds, I would expect the 1 oz. Proof Plats to pick up some of the slack.
In my opinion, we've just been through the heyday of Modern Bullion coinage. The best thing that the Mint could do for us now is to stabilize and be consistent in their offerings for a couple of decades. As a collector, I just need a little time to regroup so that I can find the ones I'm still missing.
I knew it would happen.
per the USM Office of Public Affairs, I quote "cancellations are not reflected in the sales report"
orders taken are
cancellations are not
we have been told that final reconciliations to mintages will be done by mid January, then we will see REAL numbers.
need to wait for USM mintages to be released mid January.
<< <i>I've been thinking about my next bullion U.S. coin collecting venture. I really liked the fractional plats with their ultra-low mintage. Will the 1oz plats continue to be low mintage? I wonder if they will be diluted through some kind of a set... Any thoughts? >>
Have they picked the final design for 2009 proof plats? If they use the PC version the mintages may be quite low as it was an ugly design.
<< <i>Not an Owl, is it?
I wish they would use the owl design Coinboy, this is the one I was thinking of.
link
It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.
It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.>>>
Large number in the 8-8-8 sets so total mintage will be high.
<< <i>AGE proof tenths just went dark. >>
Looks like the Mint is having to make some decisions:
LINK
It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.>>>
Large number in the 8-8-8 sets so total mintage will be high.
Prosperity sales numbers are at 5328 right now. That number might be significant for AGE, but unless there are another 10,000 out there, the prosperity set might still be a good purchase for the buffalo.
It needs to come in under the '07's 13, 358. Are there that may prosperity sets left for sale when people are getting backorder notices?
<< <i><<How can the $25 unc. a.g.e. be considered a dog just yet?
It's still below the mintage of the 06's and 07's and that is what matters.>>>
Large number in the 8-8-8 sets so total mintage will be high.
Prosperity sales numbers are at 5328 right now. That number might be significant for AGE, but unless there are another 10,000 out there, the prosperity set might still be a good purchase for the buffalo. >>
Someone had earlier speculated that 8888 prosperity sets were made.
It needs to come in under the '07's 13, 358. Are there that may prosperity sets left for sale when people are getting backorder notices?
I don't have much faith in the $25 uncirculated AGEs, but they aren't something I follow. Do the 2007 coins show a premium over other $25s in the series?
PS I know one is proof and the other is unc but the 2008 proof sales are not spectacularly low at this point. If the mint does not make 2009 fractional proof eagles then they may do well but that is only speculation.
What is going ON?
LINK
<< <i>It's just a little hard to be as enthusiastic about the AGEs in the wake of the platinums, gold buffalos, etc., etc. They might be low mintage for the series, but under the type-coin analysis these don't stick out, and they weren't exactly quick sellouts, which makes me think anyone dedicated to collecting the entire series had plenty of time to buy direct from the Mint. If you enjoy them as a low-mintage example for yourself, that's one thing, but I just doubt these present a great flip opportunity. >>
Especially considering you should have already spent all your money on the plats and buffs.
It's just a little hard to be as enthusiastic about the AGEs in the wake of the platinums, gold buffalos......
You don't know how tempted I was to post, "PLATS AND BUFFS ARE BACK ON SALE!!!!!!!!!!!"
But I restrained myself.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The Mint Website is having hissy fits! The 4-Coin PROOF AGE set is now available.
What is going ON?
LINK >>
If this continues I may send some of my AGEs back!
I agree that it is good to see that the platinum proof and unc options appear to have been removed instead of marked as no longer available. Still, one has to wonder if the Mint will spring a surprise with one of these.......... but I doubt it at this point.
USMintEAGLES
OR.... perhaps another Mint screw up and those gold coins really are not available?? who knows??!
Place your bets..... or hold your hand..... or fold??
<< <i>I just cancelled all my AGE orders.....Proofs and UNC's. The more I think about them the less I liked 'em. >>
I'm considering whether to cancel an order I have out for the 4 coin unc set. Very tempted to do so. However, with the upcoming change in US Mint pricing policy, one has to wonder if the price will be going up once that comes into play. In which case, it might be wise to hold with the orders.
I'm so confused. !!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just cancelled all my AGE orders.....Proofs and UNC's. The more I think about them the less I liked 'em. >>
I'm considering whether to cancel an order I have out for the 4 coin unc set. Very tempted to do so. However, with the upcoming change in US Mint pricing policy, one has to wonder if the price will be going up once that comes into play. In which case, it might be wise to hold with the orders.
I'm so confused. !!
At $853 gold the 4 coin uncirc set would cost $2097.50 + $235 from present $1862
Joe
From numismaster.com most recent column:
"Starting Jan. 12, the U.S. Mint has a much more streamlined and flexible approach to pricing gold and platinum collector coins.
"The U.S. Mint is launching a new repricing structure for gold and platinum products," said Deputy Director Andrew D. Brunhart Jan. 7.
The new method addresses problems created in 2008 by rapidly changing bullion prices that caused some lengthy sales suspensions.
Brunhart stressed, "We're being quite responsive to our customers."
He said the new method would offer transparency, greater agility and better customer service.
The Mint will review metal prices weekly and reprice products based on them at 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time each Thursday when necessary based on a five-day average of the a.m. and p.m. price fixes for the metals on the London market taken from the (Thursday to Wednesday period) immediately preceding each Thursday potential change point.
Gold product prices will remain unchanged as long as the metal price on which they are based remains within a $50 price range and platinum within a $100 range.
A price grid will be posted on the Mint's Web site within 30 days so collectors can see how it works.
Brunhart explained that if a product is priced based on gold being in the $850 to $899.99 range, if it falls to $849.99, it would be repriced.
He reminded collectors that the Mint's pricing formula includes not only the components of metal price and a 15 percent margin, but also the cost of manufacturing.
"Sometimes people forget that," he added.
Affected by the new pricing policy for gold will be the Buffalo proof and "W" uncirculated coins, the Celebration Coin, the 8-8-08 Double Prosperity coin, the American Eagle proofs and "W" uncirculated coins, First Spouse proof and uncirculated coins, and the Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens $20.
For platinum the new pricing will affect the American Eagle proof and "W" uncirculated coins and the 10th anniversary set."
My order for the 4 coin gold unc W set was placed on Jan 6th, when everything was assumed to be sold out an no longer available. The the status has now been changed as shown above, in stock and reserved.
So definitely looks like our 2008 W uncs are not sold out. All options are now available again. Total mintage---- totally unknown, and most likely not the very low numbers everyone was hoping for.
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Ciao
groht5, say it ain't so!!!!
<< <i>This is my last post ever on this board....
groht5, say it ain't so!!!!
I'm gonna miss him.
<< <i>Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Ciao
Yo MOMMA, and everybody knows it!
You could have at least broken "200"
maybe you'll be over there in enough time to post those mintage numbers promised by the usm by mid january.
then we will see the failure of the sales report to accurately reflect true mintages
good luck in your position
<< <i>Very funny how people are surprised about the AGE UNC-W coins not on back order anymore. Do you guys NOT GET IT??? You are talking about the US Mint here...they have time after time done crazy crap like this....yet...when I doubted the Platinum sales...I got ridicule...as if i was trying to sway people for my own gain. You guys kill me...
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Ciao
??? Not sure the posts about this on this thread are expressing surprise or outrage.....
??? But merely posting information as it is being found out......
Not sure that qualifies as "Do you guys NOT GET IT???"
Oh and just so you guys know...I am transferring to the US Mint in February...I will know the complete truth in my position there, BUT for obvious reasons, will not be able to post anything.
7over8...I tend to agree with everything you have posted BUT you just never know when it comes to the US Mint....their reputation is horrendous.
This is my last post ever on this board....
Fare well, Groht. Fare well in your new job. I'll miss your contributions to the discussion.
The challenge when dealing with the Mint is to interpret the meager clues that escape from their byzantine bureaucracy before the window of opportunity on a coin closes forever. It's a constant challenge and a test of reason.
I'm not sure if I was surprised about the Uncs being taken off of backorder. I was still too confused about why they went backorder in the first place.
I'm curious how long it will be until the Mint reinstates SOME of the fractional coins that they discontinued. For instance, they might have kept the Proof Plat fractionals, since that series was over 10 years old - but they didn't. And yet, they kept the Proof Gold fractionals. I agreed with their elimination of a bunch of stuff, but I don't see the logic of their choices.
I knew it would happen.
As of Jan 10th.........
Now those gold Proof 1/4oz's!!!!!!!!!! Up 143%!!!!
<< <i>7over8......Your APE's haven't gone down much at all....I guess 2.4% down for the 1/4oz. Unc. APE isn't too bad.
As of Jan 10th......... >>
Those are the same as the numbers from 1/6.
All the gold is unavailable.
Think about it. If you buy this week & next week the price drops, will you be able to cancel & re-order. Not. The Mint has to revise the return policy Accordingly.
No more playing the sales figures.
'08 was a key year.
<< <i>Think about it. If you buy this week & next week the price drops, will you be able to cancel & re-order. Not. The Mint has to revise the return policy Accordingly. >>
But, when has the US Mint been logical?
Mad rush on plat uncs...the US Mint pulls them from sell ..... then reprices LOWER!.....
Limited Plat proofs, lowest EVER...the US Mint pulls them from sell ..... then reprices LOWER!...
Repeat and Rinse for the Buff Uncs...
Repeat and Rinse for the Buff Proofs...
Never, Ever, Never try to apply common business sense to the US Mint!
FloridaBill