Yep got that email. Starts out with "YOU WANT IT. WE HAVE IT." Then goes on to pre-sale me the platinum.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Gee, I check the Mint's website and these are listed for $1800 each. On feeBay, graded 69s are available for less than that!
I haven't seen any prices on ebay that are that low. I believe that the Mint has (or had) the best price currently, but I note that the ship date is moving back a day at a time now.
The design, if it goes dark, will be the lowest minted design in a long time. At least of all moderns. Am I wrong?
No, I mean yes - the Gold Spouses are way below the 5,800 number, but 5,800 would be a low number for a 1 oz Proof Plat, and a long-term keeper, in my opinion.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts?
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
The 2013 spouse mintages will likely depend on the Mint's estimates of demand, based on previous sales. No more coins with 2013 dates can be struck. Final sales of the proof 2012 Caroline Harrison was 3,064 and it's notable that the coin did not sell out. More low mintages could be on tap for some of the 2013 spouses, due to either short production runs or lackluster demand.
Gold spouses will prove that there is more to value than just mintage.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I would think that anyone who bought a current low mintage Spouse coin only to see a new low mintage coin pop up within a year would be a little unhappy. Would they keep paying a premium over issue to keep up with the current low mintage coin? Probably not. There goes the aftermarket.
So if flippers start getting stuck with coins only to see mintages continue downward, would they continue to stockpile? My guess is no. Im looking for a new low to be set with the 2013 group. A couple of the Coins rival the Special Olympics/ Shriver Coin as most umm not so attractive coin ever made.
Can any one remember the price of 20th Anniversary 3-Coin Gold Eagle Set was when issued by the mint? If I am not mistaken, the price was $2,610 and the maximum mintage was set to 10,000. Am I correct? Thanks!
<< <i>Can any one remember the price of 20th Anniversary 3-Coin Gold Eagle Set was when issued by the mint? If I am not mistaken, the price was $2,610 and the maximum mintage was set to 10,000. Am I correct? Thanks! >>
I noticed the shipping date for the Roosevelt Coins and Chronicles set has been moved to a week later. I wonder how many of these they are going to strike? That one ounce .999 medal looks great in my opinion.
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet.
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet. >>
It took forevvvver but it was finally wrapped up a couple of weeks ago.
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet. >>
It took forevvvver but it was finally wrapped up a couple of weeks ago.
It’s been nearly seven years since this thread began, and it’s not an exaggeration to say that the performance of low-mintage moderns has fallen way short of expectations (mine included). Prices for many low-mintage keys from the 2006-2008 period (such as burnished plats) have eroded by up to half, while prices of others (such as fractional Buffalo gold) have barely moved for the last several years. Mintages of many coins in the First Spouse series have fallen to lows that would have appeared inconceivable in 2008 – proofs with sub-3100 mintages and uncircs with sub-2300 mintages, many of which are readily available for a few hundred dollars above melt. The 2013 five-star generals uncirculated $5 gold commem is only slightly less scarce than the 1997 Jackie Robinson, but can be bought for $800 or less.
None of the recent ultra-low-mintage coins have generated anything approaching the enthusiasm that greeted the mint offerings of the 2006-2008 era. Higher-mintage novelty items such as the “curved” baseball coins are better able to command the attention of modern collectors these days.
This dismal state of affairs has multiple causes, such as the weak economy and its effect on discretionary income, the collapse of gold and silver prices, and competition for the collector’s dollar from new U.S. Mint offerings such as the 5-ounce silver National Park quarters and the special Silver Eagle sets. If and when the economy recovers and gold and silver resume their upward march, the wider numismatic community may take a second look at these modern keys, and bring their prices more in line with their true scarcity.
Overdate...last paragraph in a nutshell. There are too many products to chase with lesser funds than in 2006-2008. There are definite gems regarding low mintages, but in the case of the Spouses where there are less than a couple thousand pieces separating keys from recent "commons"...rarity doesn't stand out. Especially in an unpopular series. That may change as we get closer to current Spouses.
True rarities will play out...maybe not in our lifetime.
collapse of precious metal prices has been the biggest factor on modern PM collectible coin price failure. Demand for them will pickup when PM prices pickup. It's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
The platinum prices eroded because of the gold mintages falling to low levels that match those coins. If gold can't sell at over those numbers then it makes sense that platinum coins can't do well.
That leads us to the gold key coin prices not appreciating, and that is probably because gold sales have been dreadful lately. You can't expect a 6500 mintage coin to do well when the latest one only sold 5500.
Falling gold prices should in theory help the key coins as more can afford the series but that also hasn't been the case. Key coins have fallen with gold prices.
The mint has too many gold offerings, between the gold eagles, gold buffalos, gold spouse and gold commemoratives. The spouses won't be done selling until 2018 or 4 more years. That series is the modern day gold dollars.
Maybe a big factor too is that prices not appreciating has a big effect itself on later sales as nobody can flip the coins so nobody buys. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy where buyers are bled away until few remain. That will be the bottom, and when that happens it is anyone's guess.
It doesn't take much to saturate the collector bullion market these days. The Mint's 35% upfront premiums don't make it easy to buy when the economy isn't working very well.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
There are a couple exceptions that come to mind. 95-w ASE has been ascendant for over a year. Back-dated $25 bullion gold eagles are being recognized for the scarcities they truly are. A dinged-up raw 91 with no pics of the reverse sold for 3000 last week.
<< <i>collapse of precious metal prices has been the biggest factor on modern PM collectible coin price failure. Demand for them will pickup when PM prices pickup. It's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when." >>
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Hey, 7over8, guess what happened with the four 2008-W MS70 Buffaloes for $5200 (melt)? >>
You are right!! I thought it was a freak occurrence - however, a day or so later I saw other auctions pop up for the same coins (multiples of 2008-W $50 Buff's) - at that point I knew it was a scam!!
<< <i>The seller has a long history of selling with generally solid feedback. I wonder if his account was hacked. >>
That would make sense. Not knowing anything else about this case, I would guess that the seller's account had little of no selling activity for the past few months, quite possibly with no coin selling history. The gold buffaloes were probably the only active listing for the seller at the time and were listed at well below market value. This is the typical MO for the account hijackers. If you ever see sweetheart deals like this in the future:
1) Check the seller's feedback. If the account has been dormant for a period, BEWARE!!! 2) Look for coin selling history. If there is none (i.e. the seller sells children's clothes or auto parts), BEWARE!!!
Maybe related to the ebay hack of recent discussion. Looks like it may have been well orchestrated scam. Look at the sellers only 2 recent feedback received as a seller...Both for coins, positive feedback from 2 different buyers, but also note the + feedback was left the same day the coins/auctions ended...
<< <i>The seller has a long history of selling with generally solid feedback. I wonder if his account was hacked. >>
So did Tulving.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Seems he was operating under at least three IDs in three different cities. Did some research but could never find where he was getting the pics.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Hello, never posted before, but found the Buffalo scam funny. The pics were stolen from Heritage. You can look up eBay item number:261421332116 for the Buffalo scam auction under user "darboywebers" then look up in PCGS the Cert for the first buffalo 16278679, it shows in PCGS a Heritage auction on 10/18/2012. The Buffalo is a perfect picture copy of that auction, the lighting on the back of the Buffalo is identical, down to the blue mark on the face and the shadow on the First Strike. Given that Heritage pictures all have the same background, the pictures were all scammed off of Heritage. darboywebers does not have the THIEF feedback, I remember seeing the THIEF feedback on another account. Multiple accounts were used to try to scam people with at melt Buffalos.
Keep up the good work, I get a kick out of some your guy's comments sometimes when pursuing the boards.
I have not been paying attn to the Spouses lately. Apparently, not many people have.
The June 16 issue of CW reports that as of May 25 sales of the Edith Wilson Unc sat at 1428 coins. This would seem the next issue to go off sale. This is far lower than either Garfield or Hayes.
Does anyone have an idea of when these will go off sale? Edith (or possibly Ellen) would seem to be in a good position to come in way lower than the current keys.
Of course, future issues could come in lower still.
Nothing? No comments on the possible 1500 FS mintages and the unseating of the current low mintage "Queens"? Please see my prior post. Figured I'd bump this. I'm interested in any thoughts re: my prior post. Thanks - Happy Sunday....
<< <i>I have not been paying attn to the Spouses lately. Apparently, not many people have.
The June 16 issue of CW reports that as of May 25 sales of the Edith Wilson Unc sat at 1428 coins. This would seem the next issue to go off sale. This is far lower than either Garfield or Hayes.
Does anyone have an idea of when these will go off sale? Edith (or possibly Ellen) would seem to be in a good position to come in way lower than the current keys.
Of course, future issues could come in lower still.
Any thoughts? >>
I believe Edith will disappear when either Florence Harding becomes available or December 15th rolls around whichever comes first.
Although I do not collect this series, but if history is a gauge, low mintage and not popular when issued products, have a tendency to reward those collectors who had the guts to collect them. Good luck.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Looks like MCMs last Edith 70FS went for $909 last night. Sold 8 since Jan, the last being last night's. Looks like the CW article got some folks' attention.
If this one comes in near 1600 or so the FS 70 will be killer - till it's beat of course.
That said, I think that any U.S. coin in the 1600 mintage range will be good long term even if it's not the key to the series.
Chasing all of these in 70FS can get expensive.
Hard to know which will be key in the end.
I think that once we get into the more modern Spouses sales will pick up and the key will be known.
It will be interesting to see whether both Edith and Ellen go off sale the same date. I think that Ellen actually went on sale a couple of days prior to Edith.
Raufus. You say that the Wilson coins will be next to go off sale? Why would the last spouse coins sold for 2013 be the first to go off sale? Why wouldn't McKinley, Taft and Roosevelt go off sale first since they were sold first? Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Raufus. You say that the Wilson coins will be next to go off sale? Why would the last spouse coins sold for 2013 be the first to go off sale? Why wouldn't McKinley, Taft and Roosevelt go off sale first since they were sold first? Wondercoin. >>
Hi Mitch-
Sorry, you're 100% correct. I read the CW article and then looked at the Mint Site. I forgot that the most recent are at the top, not the bottom. My mistake!! Thanks for pointing this out. Good lord - I should have been more careful before I posted :-(
If I recall correctly, all of the 2012 First Spouses went off sale together in late December 2013 (except the Alice Paul proof, which had already sold out).
Comments
<< <i>BTW saw today's email from MCM pre-selling 2014 Platinum $100 coins. Which means 2014 Plat bullion is back. I guess I missed the memo
Link
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW saw today's email from MCM pre-selling 2014 Platinum $100 coins. Which means 2014 Plat bullion is back. I guess I missed the memo
Link >>
Yep got that email. Starts out with "YOU WANT IT. WE HAVE IT." Then goes on to pre-sale me the platinum.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
On feeBay, graded 69s are available for less than that!
I haven't seen any prices on ebay that are that low. I believe that the Mint has (or had) the best price currently, but I note that the ship date is moving back a day at a time now.
The design, if it goes dark, will be the lowest minted design in a long time. At least of all moderns. Am I wrong?
No, I mean yes - the Gold Spouses are way below the 5,800 number, but 5,800 would be a low number for a 1 oz Proof Plat, and a long-term keeper, in my opinion.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
The 2013 spouse mintages will likely depend on the Mint's estimates of demand, based on previous sales. No more coins with 2013 dates can be struck. Final sales of the proof 2012 Caroline Harrison was 3,064 and it's notable that the coin did not sell out. More low mintages could be on tap for some of the 2013 spouses, due to either short production runs or lackluster demand.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
within a year would be a little unhappy. Would they keep paying a premium over issue to keep up with the current low
mintage coin? Probably not. There goes the aftermarket.
So if flippers start getting stuck with coins only to see mintages continue downward, would they continue to stockpile?
My guess is no. Im looking for a new low to be set with the 2013 group. A couple of the Coins rival the Special Olympics/ Shriver
Coin as most umm not so attractive coin ever made.
<< <i>Can any one remember the price of 20th Anniversary 3-Coin Gold Eagle Set was when issued by the mint? If I am not mistaken, the price was $2,610 and the maximum mintage was set to 10,000. Am I correct? Thanks! >>
You are correct Sir.
I ordered one of those sets, returned it.
<< <i>Jmski, thanks! Holy cow is that beautiful!
The design, if it goes dark, will be the lowest minted design in a long time. At least of all moderns. Am I wrong? >>
The '08 $100 Plat Proof had a final mintage of 4769.
Last NN sales numbers for the '13 = 5652
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jmski, thanks! Holy cow is that beautiful!
The design, if it goes dark, will be the lowest minted design in a long time. At least of all moderns. Am I wrong? >>
The '08 $100 Plat Proof had a final mintage of 4769.
Last NN sales numbers for the '13 = 5652 >>
Yes, but '08 was available in that design as Unc, Proof, and fractionals.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet. >>
It took forevvvver but it was finally wrapped up a couple of weeks ago.
final audited 2011 First Spouse mintages.
In a way, Caroline Harrison is a new queen. The total sums of the mintages of Uncs and Proofs for her are the lowest of all so far.
<< <i>In a way, Caroline Harrison is a new queen. The total sums of the mintages of Uncs and Proofs for her are the lowest of all so far. >>
Not by much, she beat Frances Cleveland (2) by only 47 coins. And the 2013 spouses could wind up with lower mintages.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just looking at the last sales reports on the spouses and they all look very low and SLOW. Just wondering if we're going to see a new basement level for these mintages before some more popular figures get released? Thoughts? >>
As to Spouses...when will we finally have final, audited sales numbers for the 2011s to settle the Hayes vs. Garfield Unc matter?? It's incredible that these have not been posted yet. >>
It took forevvvver but it was finally wrapped up a couple of weeks ago.
final audited 2011 First Spouse mintages.
In a way, Caroline Harrison is a new queen. The total sums of the mintages of Uncs and Proofs for her are the lowest of all so far. >>
Fantastic! Thanks very much!!
I didn't realize that this was released.
I'm glad that I speculated correctly on this and put my very limited Spouse $ into Garfield MS70FS.
Box of 20
<< <i>Word is getting out on final mintage.... >>
Not quite, the listing shows the previous Lucretia sales number of 2498, while the final audited mintage is 2168.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
None of the recent ultra-low-mintage coins have generated anything approaching the enthusiasm that greeted the mint offerings of the 2006-2008 era. Higher-mintage novelty items such as the “curved” baseball coins are better able to command the attention of modern collectors these days.
This dismal state of affairs has multiple causes, such as the weak economy and its effect on discretionary income, the collapse of gold and silver prices, and competition for the collector’s dollar from new U.S. Mint offerings such as the 5-ounce silver National Park quarters and the special Silver Eagle sets. If and when the economy recovers and gold and silver resume their upward march, the wider numismatic community may take a second look at these modern keys, and bring their prices more in line with their true scarcity.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
True rarities will play out...maybe not in our lifetime.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
That leads us to the gold key coin prices not appreciating, and that is probably because gold sales have been dreadful lately. You can't expect a 6500 mintage coin to do well when the latest one only sold 5500.
Falling gold prices should in theory help the key coins as more can afford the series but that also hasn't been the case. Key coins have fallen with gold prices.
The mint has too many gold offerings, between the gold eagles, gold buffalos, gold spouse and gold commemoratives. The spouses won't be done selling until 2018 or 4 more years. That series is the modern day gold dollars.
Maybe a big factor too is that prices not appreciating has a big effect itself on later sales as nobody can flip the coins so nobody buys. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy where buyers are bled away until few remain. That will be the bottom, and when that happens it is anyone's guess.
I knew it would happen.
4 - 2008W Buffalo $50's - All PCGS MS70, 2 FS.
$5200.00 BIN. Wish I saw it first. At melt!
<< <i>collapse of precious metal prices has been the biggest factor on modern PM collectible coin price failure. Demand for them will pickup when PM prices pickup. It's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when." >>
Here's the buyer's feedback on Ebay-
"THIEF TRIED TO STEAL $5200 CASE FILED/WON -AVOID AT ALL COSTS! BAN FROM EBAY!
May 23, 2014"
I watched the seller's account to see what happened, in case he had other great deals to post.
Something like "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". Just following up for anyone who thought he missed out on an awesome pick!
<< <i>Hey, 7over8, guess what happened with the four 2008-W MS70 Buffaloes for $5200 (melt)? >>
You are right!! I thought it was a freak occurrence - however, a day or so later I saw other auctions pop up for the same coins (multiples of 2008-W $50 Buff's) - at that point I knew it was a scam!!
<< <i>The seller has a long history of selling with generally solid feedback. I wonder if his account was hacked. >>
That would make sense. Not knowing anything else about this case, I would guess that the seller's account had little of no selling activity for the past few months, quite possibly with no coin selling history. The gold buffaloes were probably the only active listing for the seller at the time and were listed at well below market value. This is the typical MO for the account hijackers. If you ever see sweetheart deals like this in the future:
1) Check the seller's feedback. If the account has been dormant for a period, BEWARE!!!
2) Look for coin selling history. If there is none (i.e. the seller sells children's clothes or auto parts), BEWARE!!!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>The seller has a long history of selling with generally solid feedback. I wonder if his account was hacked. >>
So did Tulving.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Hey, 7over8, guess what happened with the four 2008-W MS70 Buffaloes for $5200 (melt)?
Here's the buyer's feedback on Ebay-
"THIEF TRIED TO STEAL $5200 CASE FILED/WON -AVOID AT ALL COSTS! BAN FROM EBAY!
May 23, 2014"
I watched the seller's account to see what happened, in case he had other great deals to post.
Something like "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". Just following up for anyone who thought he missed out on an awesome pick! >>
Likely the seller discussed in this thread.
Seems he was operating under at least three IDs in three different cities. Did some research but could never find where he was getting the pics.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Keep up the good work, I get a kick out of some your guy's comments sometimes when pursuing the boards.
The June 16 issue of CW reports that as of May 25 sales of the Edith Wilson Unc sat at 1428 coins. This would seem the next issue to go off sale. This is far lower than either Garfield or Hayes.
Does anyone have an idea of when these will go off sale? Edith (or possibly Ellen) would seem to be in a good position to come in way lower than the current keys.
Of course, future issues could come in lower still.
Any thoughts?
<< <i>I have not been paying attn to the Spouses lately. Apparently, not many people have.
The June 16 issue of CW reports that as of May 25 sales of the Edith Wilson Unc sat at 1428 coins. This would seem the next issue to go off sale. This is far lower than either Garfield or Hayes.
Does anyone have an idea of when these will go off sale? Edith (or possibly Ellen) would seem to be in a good position to come in way lower than the current keys.
Of course, future issues could come in lower still.
Any thoughts? >>
I believe Edith will disappear when either Florence Harding becomes available or December 15th rolls around whichever comes first.
Although I do not collect this series, but if history is a gauge, low mintage and not popular when issued products, have a tendency to reward those collectors who had the guts to collect them. Good luck.
Box of 20
If this one comes in near 1600 or so the FS 70 will be killer - till it's beat of course.
That said, I think that any U.S. coin in the 1600 mintage range will be good long term even if it's not the key to the series.
Chasing all of these in 70FS can get expensive.
Hard to know which will be key in the end.
I think that once we get into the more modern Spouses sales will pick up and the key will be known.
It will be interesting to see whether both Edith and Ellen go off sale the same date. I think that Ellen actually went on sale a couple of days prior to Edith.
<< <i>Raufus. You say that the Wilson coins will be next to go off sale? Why would the last spouse coins sold for 2013 be the first to go off sale? Why wouldn't McKinley, Taft and Roosevelt go off sale first since they were sold first? Wondercoin. >>
Hi Mitch-
Sorry, you're 100% correct. I read the CW article and then looked at the Mint Site. I forgot that the most recent are at the top, not the bottom. My mistake!! Thanks for pointing this out. Good lord - I should have been more careful before I posted :-(
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Kudos to you.
I share your enthusiasm, but have a different budget. I'm sitting on one proof and one unc from 2013, though.