On another topic, got my 2013 Annual Unc Dollar Coin Sets today. Very nice package--and a bargain compared to buying the W silver eagle by itself (which I also did).
These sets have pushed the Unc-W silver eagle mintage to about 210,000, but I don't remember if that's high or low compared to years past.
Got a mint survey today. Asked about my interest in a gold Kennedy 50th Anniversary coin for this year, and whether making their annual silver coin sets and the ATBs .999 pure vs the current .9 would be more appealing
I see the same phenomenon in play as was discussed above regarding the other "collector bullion" issues. There are now 11 different ASE issues/varieties with mintages under 300,000. It's going to be an interesting series, as it now rivals the Morgan Dollar Series in terms of longevity.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Hey, thanks for posting these jmski. So it does look like this will be the low (regular) Unc-W, yes? I think that's noteworthy, though who knows if that will attract any extra interest. I do enjoy all of the different varieties the Mint has come up with, but it does make pricing the coins difficult. I'm guessing 210,000 easily exceeds the number of serious silver eagle collectors, but as a "new low" may pull in a few speculators to soak up the extras. Note, too, that the 2013 dollar set is still on sale, so not sure how many more they will sell.
Many (most?) Silver Eagle collectors focus on specific categories, rather than trying to collect them all. A majority probably collect the annual bullion coins, with others collecting the annual single proof coins (bypassing the 1995-W), reverse proofs, types, and special sets. Judging by current mintages and prices, burnished mintmarked SE's are much less popular than proofs, and most collectors regard these coins as a distinct group separate from the bullion issues (even though both groups are referred to as "uncirculated"). So prices are influenced by more than just mintages.
Most definitely, prices are influenced by numerous factors. I stopped collecting ASEs when Phillip Diehl forced collectors to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W, but I still like the series. If I were still collecting them, I'd have to pursue the entire set - mainly because it's still possible to complete a full set over time. That's really the challenge in collecting after all.
One variety to keep your eyes on is the "Enhanced Unc". They keep finding ways to make the appearance of these silver coins more and more intriguing, and this micro-engraving stuff is just now coming onstream.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Most definitely, prices are influenced by numerous factors. I stopped collecting ASEs when Phillip Diehl forced collectors to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W, but I still like the series. If I were still collecting them, I'd have to pursue the entire set - mainly because it's still possible to complete a full set over time. That's really the challenge in collecting after all.
One variety to keep your eyes on is the "Enhanced Unc". They keep finding ways to make the appearance of these silver coins more and more intriguing, and this micro-engraving stuff is just now coming onstream. >>
Why the "Enhanced Unc" in particular? And how many dates are there? I know there was one in the 2013 set. Have there been any others? Thanks!
They keep finding ways to make the appearance of these silver coins more and more intriguing, and this micro-engraving stuff is just now coming onstream. >>
I sure hope they don't start with the privy marks and the colorizing like the Canadian mint. To me that would be way too much. I have found the enhanced unc to be appealing.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I stopped collecting ASEs when Phillip Diehl forced collectors to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W, but I still like the series. >>
you should have waited to stop collecting until AFTER collectors were forced to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W (ASE).
<< <i>I sure hope they don't start with the privy marks and the colorizing like the Canadian mint. To me that would be way too much. I have found the enhanced unc to be appealing. >>
The US Mint will produce what every buyers will buy.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>Got a mint survey today. Asked about my interest in a gold Kennedy 50th Anniversary coin for this year, and whether making their annual silver coin sets and the ATBs .999 pure vs the current .9 would be more appealing >>
the annual silver coin sets and ATB's being 999 silver instead of .9 silver, I see that as no real difference. Seems odd in a certain way.
I don't want to see a gold Kennedy coin. Not a good idea.
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
I also don't see any real virtue in making the eagles .999, except they'd be easier to melt down!
Gold Kennedy? So it would be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the COIN, not his assassination. Which means the new gold piece should probably just be a gold version of the half dollar, right? I like the Kennedy half, but am not feeling the love for this idea, either.
What I AM in favor of is turning all of the new coin designs into open competitions with real artists, not just staff engraver-artists. I'm very excited about the baseball coin, as are a lot of other people, and would think the Mint would go "Oh, yeah. Maybe we should have more artists involved?"
What I AM in favor of is turning all of the new coin designs into open competitions with real artists, not just staff engraver-artists. I'm very excited about the baseball coin, as are a lot of other people, and would think the Mint would go "Oh, yeah. Maybe we should have more artists involved?" >>
I believe the Mint does or did have an outside artist infusion program. Not sure how extensively it is used.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I agree stop the annual coin and send JFK out in style in a gold coin! >>
Me too. Would like to see this coin and the penny retired, perhaps a $2 and/or $5 coin added. I love the Australian $2 coin design and loved using it when I was over there.
More than a month has passed, time to wake up this thread!
In light of recent record low First Spouse mintages, I'm wondering how much of a future the low-mintage platinum eagles have.
The lowest-mintage platinum proof is the 2008-W $50, at 4,020. This number has been totally blown away by the 2012-W Caroline Harrison proof at 3,046. All the rest of the 2011 and 2012 First Spouse proofs also have mintages below 4,000.
On the uncirculated side, the 2008-W burnished $50 platinum eagle has the lowest mintage at 2,253. This is eclipsed by the 2011-W Lucretia Garfield at 2,168 and the 2011-W Lucy Hayes at 2,196.
While neither the plats nor the spouses are even remotely popular with mainstream collectors, the First Spouse series has two things going for it that the plats lack. The first is that it is an ongoing series with many of the more recognizable and popular first ladies set to appear during the next few years. This will draw attention to the series as a whole and the low mintages of many of the earlier coins. The second is that the First Spouse coins are gold, which is much more popular as a collectable coinage metal than platinum.
So in terms of price and popularity, I expect the low-mintage spouses to outperform the low-mintage plats for the foreseeable future.
<< <i>One difference between the spouces and the platinum coins is the platinum is not a huge set.
Sadly neither is likely to move >>
But platinum *is* a huge set.
If you want one coin for each design, the logical thing would be the one ounce Platinum coins, the only size they've made since 2009. So you're need 18 different one oz platinum coins as of 2015. That's a huge investment.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
I don't disagree with any of the above statements. I don't think either series is going anywhere soon, but also think gold inherently has more of an appeal. HOWever, the platinum designs are generally fabulous while the FS designs basically render them chunks of metal. I'm hangin' on to my platinum even though it probably won't move much in my lifetime.
I had a run of $50 half oz platinum coins from 2004-2008 but I saw no point in keeping them-- I didn't care about finishing the set because I already had the keys and there was no way I could afford to go on collecting the one oz coins.
But that said, 1998 was my favorite design with 2004 a close second until 2013 came out. 2013 is STUNNING. I could make an exception and get one, one oz coin for 2013.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
The pool of Plats that trade on ebay and GC doesn't seem very large. My guess is that the smaller denominations are still being collected and that the larger coins are being stuck away into retirement accounts as longterm investments. I don't know these things as fact, but it seems that way. I'm still trying to collect them, and it's not a stroll in the park.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
One ounce size only, hopefully fractionals and fractional proofs will follow. Some of the recent proof designs have been stunning but financially out of reach for many collectors.
The Baseball coins are to be released on March 27. It's looking very likely that there will be a gold Kennedy half dollar as well w/the weight as yet to be determined. I'm interested to know what those on the Moderns thread think of the mid and long term potential of the gold baseball and Kennedy issues. No need for the modern haters to chime in... "Mint junk", "Modern Junk", "Just more NCLT","U.S. Mint is turning into the RCM", "NONE FOR ME!", etc, - heard it all before, please save your keystrokes. What say the moderns crowd on these? I'd guess that the mintage will be high enough that none do very well aside from short term 70FS flips save for the Baseball Unc and perhaps a Kennedy Unc if there is one and the mintage is somewhat low. A total guess on my part.
At the moment, low mintages are not translating into high premiums. I think the baseball and special Kennedy coins will have high enough mintages to keep long-term appreciation modest.
For the special Kennedy halves, the long-term potential will depend on whether they are ever considered to be part of the complete Kennedy set, along with the circulation strikes and the proofs. Right now even the 1998-S uncirculated silver Kennedy half (from the two-coin commemorative set) is marginal in that respect, and I expect the gold Kennedy will be even more so, especially with a price tag of well over $1000.
I had a run of $50 half oz platinum coins from 2004-2008 but I saw no point in keeping them-- I didn't care about finishing the set because I already had the keys and there was no way I could afford to go on collecting the one oz coins.
I sold all my $50 ounce platinums also in the 2004-2008 range. I did load up on the 2006 uncirculated directly from the mint buying about 8 of the one ounce versions and sold them the following year when they were still very hot. Since then not much of a premium for the 2006s. I did keep 1/10 ounce set from 2006-2008 proof and ms versions. I do have my eye on the 2013 and may still buy that one. I like the design very much.
<< <i>I had a run of $50 half oz platinum coins from 2004-2008 but I saw no point in keeping them-- I didn't care about finishing the set because I already had the keys and there was no way I could afford to go on collecting the one oz coins.
I sold all my $50 ounce platinums also in the 2004-2008 range. I did load up on the 2006 uncirculated directly from the mint buying about 8 of the one ounce versions and sold them the following year when they were still very hot. Since then not much of a premium for the 2006s. I did keep 1/10 ounce set from 2006-2008 proof and ms versions. I do have my eye on the 2013 and may still buy that one. I like the design very much. >>
Fantastic move selling the '06s. I got just smoked on those - the worst of any numismatic purchase ever for me. I just got into this in '06. I bought some '06 Ws in MS70FS when they were hot - but below the peak. I held and got killed. Sold them a few years ago. I did buy a bunch of '08Ws from The Mint. I also bought a bunch of 70s at a good price. I've kept them all save for one set of Uncs from The Mint which I sold to MCM last year at a great profit.
Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5800 mintage? 2nd lowest one ounce proof after the 2008 Platinum Proof.
Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5700 mintage?
It's pretty early for a sellout of these.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Holdout flippers are buying based on historical results, aren't they? The economy is dead, many are underwater on their homes. Coins are off the radar for many.
Coins are from yesterdays news. Those that want coins are buying them from the Mint along with a few extras. Speculators are buying with the belief that Coins are selling below real demand. Is this true? Doubtful.
If the economy would boom again flippers might have something.
Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year?
<< <i>Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year? >>
Gold and silver mintages dropped because spot prices dropped thereby reducing demand for collectible mint products. If gold continues it's slow rise, keep an eye on the 14 W gold products - they should see higher mintages than the past two years.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
I think the baseball coin will have an enduring interest, though won't be a monetary "gold mine". The Kennedy coin just strikes me as odd. I'm a fan of the coin and the President, but just feel weird about this one. Almost like they're just gold-plating some of the halves.
Holdout flippers are buying based on historical results, aren't they? The economy is dead, many are underwater on their homes. Coins are off the radar for many.
Coins are from yesterdays news. Those that want coins are buying them from the Mint along with a few extras. Speculators are buying with the belief that Coins are selling below real demand. Is this true? Doubtful.
If the economy would boom again flippers might have something.
Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year?
That is exactly, 100% correct. I completely agree, except that I also understand one other thing.
It is counterintuitive that you buy when it is hardest to buy. If you have the means, you can end up with some very desirable coins. I know this to be true.
You can also get burned, but that's why they call it speculating.
The one factor that is still operative - is that if, or when the precious metals market heats back up the low mintage keys will have a resurgence as a new crop of investors turn into bullion collectors. I'm pretty convinced that this cycle will repeat.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I was thinking that noon on the 27th will be a huge feeding frenzy on the Baseball coins. This will likely be the debut of the Mint's new "Waiting Room" for hot issues. I wonder how that will go.
<< <i>Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5800 mintage? 2nd lowest one ounce proof after the 2008 Platinum Proof. >>
Has anyone seen a 2013 proof platinum in hand? Because the design looks gorgeous.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
<< <i>Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5800 mintage? 2nd lowest one ounce proof after the 2008 Platinum Proof. >>
Gee, I check the Mint's website and these are listed for $1800 each. On feeBay, graded 69s are available for less than that!
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Comments
These sets have pushed the Unc-W silver eagle mintage to about 210,000, but I don't remember if that's high or low compared to years past.
GritsMan, that number would fall behind the following mintages in fifth place overall:
1995-W Proof @30,125
2008W/7 Unc @ 47,000
2011-S Unc @ 100,000
2011-P Rev.Proof @ 100,000
2013-W Unc @ 210,000
I see the same phenomenon in play as was discussed above regarding the other "collector bullion" issues. There are now 11 different ASE issues/varieties with mintages under 300,000. It's going to be an interesting series, as it now rivals the Morgan Dollar Series in terms of longevity.
I knew it would happen.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
One variety to keep your eyes on is the "Enhanced Unc". They keep finding ways to make the appearance of these silver coins more and more intriguing, and this micro-engraving stuff is just now coming onstream.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Most definitely, prices are influenced by numerous factors. I stopped collecting ASEs when Phillip Diehl forced collectors to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W, but I still like the series. If I were still collecting them, I'd have to pursue the entire set - mainly because it's still possible to complete a full set over time. That's really the challenge in collecting after all.
One variety to keep your eyes on is the "Enhanced Unc". They keep finding ways to make the appearance of these silver coins more and more intriguing, and this micro-engraving stuff is just now coming onstream. >>
Why the "Enhanced Unc" in particular? And how many dates are there? I know there was one in the 2013 set. Have there been any others? Thanks!
I sure hope they don't start with the privy marks and the colorizing like the Canadian mint. To me that would be way too much. I have found the enhanced unc to be appealing.
<< <i>I stopped collecting ASEs when Phillip Diehl forced collectors to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W, but I still like the series. >>
you should have waited to stop collecting until AFTER collectors were forced to buy the gold set in order to get the 95-W (ASE).
<< <i>I sure hope they don't start with the privy marks and the colorizing like the Canadian mint. To me that would be way too much. I have found the enhanced unc to be appealing. >>
The US Mint will produce what every buyers will buy.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>Got a mint survey today. Asked about my interest in a gold Kennedy 50th Anniversary coin for this year, and whether making their annual silver coin sets and the ATBs .999 pure vs the current .9 would be more appealing >>
the annual silver coin sets and ATB's being 999 silver instead of .9 silver, I see that as no real difference. Seems odd in a certain way.
I don't want to see a gold Kennedy coin. Not a good idea.
<< <i>the annual silver coin sets and ATB's being 999 silver instead of .9 silver, I see that as no real difference. Seems odd in a certain way. >>
Maybe to be classified as "bullion?"
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
Gold Kennedy? So it would be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the COIN, not his assassination. Which means the new gold piece should probably just be a gold version of the half dollar, right? I like the Kennedy half, but am not feeling the love for this idea, either.
What I AM in favor of is turning all of the new coin designs into open competitions with real artists, not just staff engraver-artists. I'm very excited about the baseball coin, as are a lot of other people, and would think the Mint would go "Oh, yeah. Maybe we should have more artists involved?"
I believe the Mint does or did have an outside artist infusion program. Not sure how extensively it is used.
So 2014 is the 50th anniversary of Kennedy half dollar.
I think the mint should have two different sets of the Kennedy coins.
First one be cheap and unlimited mintage which they could sell tons of them.
Second a more limited and probably expensive set for actual coin collectors.
Year after year of limited production of an unchanging design on a non-circulating coin does not make sense.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I think the Kennedy half should either be discontinued or begin having annual commemorative reverses of some kind.
Year after year of limited production of an unchanging design on a non-circulating coin does not make sense. >>
I agree. Heck, you can't even use them slot machines anymore!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I think that 50 years of mourning and commemoration is more than enough. I think the Kennedy Half should be discontinued. >>
Agree. Change the design to commemorate the current 5 years of mourning.
<< <i>I agree stop the annual coin and send JFK out in style in a gold coin! >>
Me too. Would like to see this coin and the penny retired, perhaps a $2 and/or $5 coin added. I love the Australian $2 coin design and loved using it when I was over there.
In light of recent record low First Spouse mintages, I'm wondering how much of a future the low-mintage platinum eagles have.
The lowest-mintage platinum proof is the 2008-W $50, at 4,020. This number has been totally blown away by the 2012-W Caroline Harrison proof at 3,046. All the rest of the 2011 and 2012 First Spouse proofs also have mintages below 4,000.
On the uncirculated side, the 2008-W burnished $50 platinum eagle has the lowest mintage at 2,253. This is eclipsed by the 2011-W Lucretia Garfield at 2,168 and the 2011-W Lucy Hayes at 2,196.
While neither the plats nor the spouses are even remotely popular with mainstream collectors, the First Spouse series has two things going for it that the plats lack. The first is that it is an ongoing series with many of the more recognizable and popular first ladies set to appear during the next few years. This will draw attention to the series as a whole and the low mintages of many of the earlier coins. The second is that the First Spouse coins are gold, which is much more popular as a collectable coinage metal than platinum.
So in terms of price and popularity, I expect the low-mintage spouses to outperform the low-mintage plats for the foreseeable future.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Sadly neither is likely to move
<< <i>One difference between the spouces and the platinum coins is the platinum is not a huge set.
Sadly neither is likely to move >>
But platinum *is* a huge set.
If you want one coin for each design, the logical thing would be the one ounce Platinum coins, the only size they've made since 2009. So you're need 18 different one oz platinum coins as of 2015. That's a huge investment.
But that said, 1998 was my favorite design with 2004 a close second until 2013 came out. 2013 is STUNNING. I could make an exception and get one, one oz coin for 2013.
I knew it would happen.
Link
One ounce size only, hopefully fractionals and fractional proofs will follow. Some of the recent proof designs have been stunning but financially out of reach for many collectors.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I saw that! Isn't it strange that we never get to know what they're doing?
I knew it would happen.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
It's looking very likely that there will be a gold Kennedy half dollar as well w/the weight as yet to be determined.
I'm interested to know what those on the Moderns thread think of the mid and long term potential of the gold baseball and Kennedy issues.
No need for the modern haters to chime in... "Mint junk", "Modern Junk", "Just more NCLT","U.S. Mint is turning into the RCM", "NONE FOR ME!", etc, - heard it all before, please save your keystrokes.
What say the moderns crowd on these?
I'd guess that the mintage will be high enough that none do very well aside from short term 70FS flips save for the Baseball Unc and perhaps a Kennedy Unc if there is one and the mintage is somewhat low. A total guess on my part.
For the special Kennedy halves, the long-term potential will depend on whether they are ever considered to be part of the complete Kennedy set, along with the circulation strikes and the proofs. Right now even the 1998-S uncirculated silver Kennedy half (from the two-coin commemorative set) is marginal in that respect, and I expect the gold Kennedy will be even more so, especially with a price tag of well over $1000.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I sold all my $50 ounce platinums also in the 2004-2008 range. I did load up on the 2006 uncirculated directly from the mint buying about 8 of the one ounce versions and sold them the following year when they were still very hot. Since then not much of a premium for the 2006s. I did keep 1/10 ounce set from 2006-2008 proof and ms versions. I do have my eye on the 2013 and may still buy that one. I like the design very much.
Box of 20
<< <i>I had a run of $50 half oz platinum coins from 2004-2008 but I saw no point in keeping them-- I didn't care about finishing the set because I already had the keys and there was no way I could afford to go on collecting the one oz coins.
I sold all my $50 ounce platinums also in the 2004-2008 range. I did load up on the 2006 uncirculated directly from the mint buying about 8 of the one ounce versions and sold them the following year when they were still very hot. Since then not much of a premium for the 2006s. I did keep 1/10 ounce set from 2006-2008 proof and ms versions. I do have my eye on the 2013 and may still buy that one. I like the design very much. >>
Fantastic move selling the '06s. I got just smoked on those - the worst of any numismatic purchase ever for me. I just got into this in '06. I bought some '06 Ws in MS70FS when they were hot - but below the peak. I held and got killed. Sold them a few years ago. I did buy a bunch of '08Ws from The Mint. I also bought a bunch of 70s at a good price. I've kept them all save for one set of Uncs from The Mint which I sold to MCM last year at a great profit.
Box of 20
It's pretty early for a sellout of these.
I knew it would happen.
Coins are off the radar for many.
Coins are from yesterdays news. Those that want coins are buying them from the Mint along with a few extras. Speculators
are buying with the belief that Coins are selling below real demand. Is this true? Doubtful.
If the economy would boom again flippers might have something.
Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year?
<< <i>Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year? >>
Gold and silver mintages dropped because spot prices dropped thereby reducing demand for collectible mint products. If gold continues it's slow rise, keep an eye on the 14 W gold products - they should see higher mintages than the past two years.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
Coins are off the radar for many.
Coins are from yesterdays news. Those that want coins are buying them from the Mint along with a few extras. Speculators
are buying with the belief that Coins are selling below real demand. Is this true? Doubtful.
If the economy would boom again flippers might have something.
Aren't there good reasons that mintages keep dropping every year?
That is exactly, 100% correct. I completely agree, except that I also understand one other thing.
It is counterintuitive that you buy when it is hardest to buy. If you have the means, you can end up with some very desirable coins. I know this to be true.
You can also get burned, but that's why they call it speculating.
The one factor that is still operative - is that if, or when the precious metals market heats back up the low mintage keys will have a resurgence as a new crop of investors turn into bullion collectors. I'm pretty convinced that this cycle will repeat.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5800 mintage? 2nd lowest one ounce proof after the 2008 Platinum Proof. >>
Has anyone seen a 2013 proof platinum in hand? Because the design looks gorgeous.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Just checked the mint for the 2013 Platinum Proof. Looks like its is going dark. I wanted to buy this but not this soon. I did place an order for one but might not get it. Maybe a 5800 mintage? 2nd lowest one ounce proof after the 2008 Platinum Proof. >>
Gee, I check the Mint's website and these are listed for $1800 each.
On feeBay, graded 69s are available for less than that!
The design, if it goes dark, will be the lowest minted design in a long time. At least of all moderns. Am I wrong?