I collect material thats good looking and rare but I am a data hound too. Cheap (relative to melt) and rare are good siblings even if they are ugly. I dont think I will keep the pair of Pierce gold uncs I bought but I hope to sit on them for about 10 months and then dump them much like the ATB silver which I had no personal interest in either.
Since the 2006 3 piece silver eagle sets melt value is slightly more than mint issue price I thought I'd ask what do these go for raw and is there still a premium for sealed shipping boxes? I haven't been following these lately and haven't seen much written recently is this massive thread about them. Also what are the gold sets raw going for now?
<< <i>Now Miles I did not say the coin is good looking. In a series with mintages this low and close together I think looks will count some. I am just pointing out I think this coin is going to crash well before sell out date. Thats all. I have a few of the 3100-3400 mintage unc generic Hags but my money is mostly in Liberty issues. I agree with you that Julia is the class act of the low mintage generics.
Yes Eric, and isn't it equally amazing that the beautiful Julia somehow slipped into the abyss of a low mintage coin when other less appealing
issues blasted through the substantial ceiling of good taste! Between the vascillating price of Gold and our fickle Mint, bless them, we are kept guessing.
Except, when fine fellows like you share your thoughts and hunches. Thanks for staying strong.
If physical attractiveness of the subject matter is the primary criteria for purchasing the coin then what about those sickos who are waiting for the Eleanor Roosevelt coin to come out?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The ship dates on my Buch. Proofs and Pierce Proofs is 3/20. Who knows if I'll get them.
I wonder how many we'll chase in hope of getting the key at issue cost? Likely cheaper (certainly a LOT less of a pain) to just buy it when it's know years from now. I've got to stop myself from doing this. Bravo Miles for breaking the cycle and not getting sucked in. :-)
My 3 JP proof were shipped on 2/26 (I placed this order immediate after it went back order).
I am late in the game, so I am not able to acquire the 2008 issues like unc Van Buren or Jackson in quantity, so I have to focus on low population generic spouses.
I am not too worry about a new key will collapse the price of the existing key or semi-keys. First, when I look at the 2008 generic spouse, even their pop is not too low, they are still trading at a slight premium compare to the current issue price. Secondly, if there is a new key, I will also have a chance to acquire them through the mint.
To me, this series is even more attractive now because most flippers are concentrating on the ATBs, leaving the spouse untouched.
In my opinion, one of the downsides in this series is their low trading volume, making them very illiquid. Secondly, there is a possibility that this series will end up like the art gold medals.
There is something I don't really quite understand is the effect of future gold price, and I really would like to see others opinions. 1. If gold price increases, it should reduce the demand for new issues, making the current issues less desirable, but the bullion content should bail me out. 2. Should gold price crash, the demand for future issues should increase, which should increase the numismatic premium of the current key or semi-keys. In both cases, owning the current semi-key generic spouse seems to be fine?
Don't allow my alliance with a thin sliver of sanity to sway your strong resolve to ascend into the stratosphere of spousal proftability!
Miles
Miles, I must confess that I changed my mind again. I didn't pull the trigger because I suddenly remembered the reason I am gathering up some cash. I'll tell you about it when the time comes.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>There is something I don't really quite understand is the effect of future gold price, and I really would like to see others opinions. 1. If gold price increases, it should reduce the demand for new issues, making the current issues less desirable, but the bullion content should bail me out. 2. Should gold price crash, the demand for future issues should increase, which should increase the numismatic premium of the current key or semi-keys. In both cases, owning the current semi-key generic spouse seems to be fine? >>
1. If the gold price increases significantly (highly likely in my opinion), the premiums on *all* First Spouse coins will likely shrink. The bullion content will "bail you out," but ordinary bullion coins will outperform the scarce First Spouse coins on a percentage basis. (In other words, a Jefferson Liberty bought at today's prices will outperform a Van Buren Liberty bought at today's prices.) This is happening now in silver - the rapid price increase has eliminated the premium on many scarce silver coins (such as recent silver proofs, 1959-64 mint and proof sets, all circulated Roosevelt dimes, all circulated Franklin halves except 1955, and many modern gold and silver commemorative coins).
2. If the gold price crashes, demand for future issues will depend to a large extent on the health of the economy. In a severe depression, demand for future issues might still continue to fall because so few people will be able to afford them.
Recent First Spouse coins are genuinely scarce, but a prosperous and growing economy is needed for them to reach a decent price level, and that might not occur until many years from now.
<< <i> 1. If the gold price increases significantly (highly likely in my opinion), the premiums on *all* First Spouse coins will likely shrink. The bullion content will "bail you out," but ordinary bullion coins will outperform the scarce First Spouse coins on a percentage basis. (In other words, a Jefferson Liberty bought at today's prices will outperform a Van Buren Liberty bought at today's prices.) This is happening now in silver - the rapid price increase has eliminated the premium on many scarce silver coins (such as recent silver proofs, 1959-64 mint and proof sets, all circulated Roosevelt dimes, all circulated Franklin halves except 1955, and many modern gold and silver commemorative coins).
2. If the gold price crashes, demand for future issues will depend to a large extent on the health of the economy. In a severe depression, demand for future issues might still continue to fall because so few people will be able to afford them.
Recent First Spouse coins are genuinely scarce, but a prosperous and growing economy is needed for them to reach a decent price level, and that might not occur until many years from now. >>
Well said.
I totally agree with you on 1.
For 2, I think your argument applies to most series, ie a weak economy will reduce the demand for all numismatic coins in general, but can one think of any other factors pertain to the spouse series only?
The great thing is to be able to buy some of these coins at or below spot. I picked up a Jefferson MS and PF set for $1400 the other day on the bay. Pretty tough to go wrong.
Thanks for the welcome eric. Also picked up a couple MS Pierces from MCM couple days ago. I'm way late to the game but picking up what I can. Great info here.
<< <i>Thanks for the welcome eric. Also picked up a couple MS Pierces from MCM couple days ago. I'm way late to the game but picking up what I can. Great info here. >>
Abigail Fillmore Proof (2010) .........5,727 Abigail Fillmore Uncirculated ............3,537 back ordered Jane Pierce Proof (2010) ...........4,852 back ordered Jane Pierce Uncirculated (2010) ... 3,274 Buchanan’s Liberty Proof (2010) ... NLA Buchanan’s Liberty Uncirculated ... 4,887 Mary Todd Lincoln Proof (2010)... 5,516 Mary Todd Lincoln Uncirculated ... 2,692
Order report as of Monday.
I think unc Pierce is living on barrowed time. No way its going to make it for 3 more months.
Do not forget the last 11 days of sales that dont show up on the sales report most like to quote. Add 150 coins and Taylor will not be lowest unless there are things going on in the returns data I cant see.
Looking at the PCGS pop report for the hags! If you want to put together a proof 70 first strike set, only 71 sets are possible! with uncirculated First Strike 70`s, only 92 sets are possible. More can be added if sealed boxes that are first strike eligible are out there, but i don`t think many are.
Proofs
71) Louisa Adoms ----70 First strikes available ( Key so far ) 72) Margaret Taylor -70 First strikes available ( Close second ) 73) Julia Tyler--------- 70 First Strikes available ( in the hunt ) 86) Anna Harrison--- 70 First strikes available ( the only other one under 100 )
Uncirculated
92) Letitia Tyler----- 70 First strikes available ( Key ) 95) Louisa Adams-- 70 First Strikes available 95) Anna Harrison-- 70 First strikes available
I personally own 2 of the Margaret Taylor Proofs and 3 Letitia Tyler Uncs.
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though. how many not on the registry are collecting?
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though. how many not on the registry are collecting?
>>
Also, keep in mind the the coin collecting hobby is not static. Demand changes as circumstances change. Some love to chase the elusive; kind of like the alpha-dog wanting the biggest bone. Sorry for the analogy.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though. how many not on the registry are collecting?
>>
Make me one of the unaccounted for as I have hags graded by both TPGs. There are 91 combined proof and unc sets ATS of which 12 are over 90% complete. I also have a portion of mine still raw with OGP. So many coins and so little money 121 are doing proof and 81 unc. I don't know what the overlap is between all but there are quite a few folks collecting these things. How many more collectors aren't even board members?
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
I have done zero research on that coin because I did not care about it one way or the other. With no firm data to go on my personal assumptions are that the coins were struck to at least 5,000 uncs and 10,000 proofs. Again just my unresearched best guess.
Regarding the Buch proof backorder, I ordered 2 right after it went red. A couple days ago it showed 1 reserved. However, yesterday it sent me an email saying that the order is cancelled. One thing quite strange is that my credit card was charged the amount of 1 coin. I suspect they are going to ship me one coin, and most likely a returned one. Lets see.
Guess some large buyer or buyers got cold feet this weekend and dumped some mint state Buchanan gold. The weekly sales report crashed over 400 coins this week. Could be that they found out that the coin was struck to over 6,000 and was not the opportunity that they had hoped for.
That is some kind of Evil drop. I have NEVER seen one that bad on a percentage basis prior to final audit corrections before.
<< <i>Guess some large buyer or buyers got cold feet this weekend and dumped some mint state Buchanan gold. The weekly sales report crashed over 400 coins this week. Could be that they found out that the coin was struck to over 6,000 and was not the opportunity that they had hoped for.
That is some kind of Evil drop. I have NEVER seen one that bad on a percentage basis prior to final audit corrections before.
Eric >>
Boy, that guy probably got banned at the Mint for awhile.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Comments
Eric ... you better not tell your good friend 7/8!!
Wondercoin
Eric
<< <i>Now Miles I did not say the coin is good looking. In a series with mintages this low and close together I think looks will count some. I am just pointing out I think this coin is going to crash well before sell out date. Thats all. I have a few of the 3100-3400 mintage unc generic Hags but my money is mostly in Liberty issues. I agree with you that Julia is the class act of the low mintage generics.
Yes Eric, and isn't it equally amazing that the beautiful Julia somehow slipped into the abyss of a low mintage coin when other less appealing
issues blasted through the substantial ceiling of good taste! Between the vascillating price of Gold and our fickle Mint, bless them, we are kept guessing.
Except, when fine fellows like you share your thoughts and hunches. Thanks for staying strong.
Miles
<< <i>Does anyone have the Julia Unc. mintage handy? Thanks >>
2861 according to the Mint weekly report.
3143 according to Eric's (after final audit).
<<That is one prohibitally bum-ugly obverse and let's not talk about the reverse (as it is will nearly all of the Spouse series).
NO, I will not be reverse-seduced by the unattractive low-mintage after closing time road-kills! >>
Okay, Miles - that sounds almost like despisability. You talked me into a couple of the Unc Pierces!
I knew it would happen.
Don't allow my alliance with a thin sliver of sanity to sway your strong resolve to ascend into the stratosphere of spousal proftability!
Miles
I wonder how many we'll chase in hope of getting the key at issue cost? Likely cheaper (certainly a LOT less of a pain) to just buy it when it's know years from now. I've got to stop myself from doing this. Bravo Miles for breaking the cycle and not getting sucked in. :-)
I am late in the game, so I am not able to acquire the 2008 issues like unc Van Buren or Jackson in quantity, so I have to focus on low population generic spouses.
I am not too worry about a new key will collapse the price of the existing key or semi-keys. First, when I look at the 2008 generic spouse, even their pop is not too low, they are still trading at a slight premium compare to the current issue price. Secondly, if there is a new key, I will also have a chance to acquire them through the mint.
To me, this series is even more attractive now because most flippers are concentrating on the ATBs, leaving the spouse untouched.
In my opinion, one of the downsides in this series is their low trading volume, making them very illiquid.
Secondly, there is a possibility that this series will end up like the art gold medals.
There is something I don't really quite understand is the effect of future gold price, and I really would like to see others opinions.
1. If gold price increases, it should reduce the demand for new issues, making the current issues less desirable, but the bullion content should bail me out.
2. Should gold price crash, the demand for future issues should increase, which should increase the numismatic premium of the current key or semi-keys.
In both cases, owning the current semi-key generic spouse seems to be fine?
Don't allow my alliance with a thin sliver of sanity to sway your strong resolve to ascend into the stratosphere of spousal proftability!
Miles
Miles, I must confess that I changed my mind again. I didn't pull the trigger because I suddenly remembered the reason I am gathering up some cash. I'll tell you about it when the time comes.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>There is something I don't really quite understand is the effect of future gold price, and I really would like to see others opinions.
1. If gold price increases, it should reduce the demand for new issues, making the current issues less desirable, but the bullion content should bail me out.
2. Should gold price crash, the demand for future issues should increase, which should increase the numismatic premium of the current key or semi-keys.
In both cases, owning the current semi-key generic spouse seems to be fine? >>
1. If the gold price increases significantly (highly likely in my opinion), the premiums on *all* First Spouse coins will likely shrink. The bullion content will "bail you out," but ordinary bullion coins will outperform the scarce First Spouse coins on a percentage basis. (In other words, a Jefferson Liberty bought at today's prices will outperform a Van Buren Liberty bought at today's prices.) This is happening now in silver - the rapid price increase has eliminated the premium on many scarce silver coins (such as recent silver proofs, 1959-64 mint and proof sets, all circulated Roosevelt dimes, all circulated Franklin halves except 1955, and many modern gold and silver commemorative coins).
2. If the gold price crashes, demand for future issues will depend to a large extent on the health of the economy. In a severe depression, demand for future issues might still continue to fall because so few people will be able to afford them.
Recent First Spouse coins are genuinely scarce, but a prosperous and growing economy is needed for them to reach a decent price level, and that might not occur until many years from now.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
1. If the gold price increases significantly (highly likely in my opinion), the premiums on *all* First Spouse coins will likely shrink. The bullion content will "bail you out," but ordinary bullion coins will outperform the scarce First Spouse coins on a percentage basis. (In other words, a Jefferson Liberty bought at today's prices will outperform a Van Buren Liberty bought at today's prices.) This is happening now in silver - the rapid price increase has eliminated the premium on many scarce silver coins (such as recent silver proofs, 1959-64 mint and proof sets, all circulated Roosevelt dimes, all circulated Franklin halves except 1955, and many modern gold and silver commemorative coins).
2. If the gold price crashes, demand for future issues will depend to a large extent on the health of the economy. In a severe depression, demand for future issues might still continue to fall because so few people will be able to afford them.
Recent First Spouse coins are genuinely scarce, but a prosperous and growing economy is needed for them to reach a decent price level, and that might not occur until many years from now. >>
Well said.
I totally agree with you on 1.
For 2, I think your argument applies to most series, ie a weak economy will reduce the demand for all numismatic coins in general, but can one think of any other factors pertain to the spouse series only?
Eric
<< <i>Thanks for the welcome eric. Also picked up a couple MS Pierces from MCM couple days ago. I'm way late to the game but picking up what I can. Great info here. >>
Remember to pick up Eric's book too.
Abigail Fillmore Uncirculated ............3,537 back ordered
Jane Pierce Proof (2010) ...........4,852 back ordered
Jane Pierce Uncirculated (2010) ... 3,274
Buchanan’s Liberty Proof (2010) ... NLA
Buchanan’s Liberty Uncirculated ... 4,887
Mary Todd Lincoln Proof (2010)... 5,516
Mary Todd Lincoln Uncirculated ... 2,692
Order report as of Monday.
I think unc Pierce is living on barrowed time. No way its going to make it for 3 more months.
Is Julia the lowest proof? If so, what is it's mintage (or what is the mintage of the lowest if it's not Julia)?
Any chance Pierce will take the record for lowest (at least for now)?
Thanks!!!
Pierce proof COULD come out king. It all depends on sales report variations from Finals.
Eric
Proofs
71) Louisa Adoms ----70 First strikes available ( Key so far )
72) Margaret Taylor -70 First strikes available ( Close second )
73) Julia Tyler--------- 70 First Strikes available ( in the hunt )
86) Anna Harrison--- 70 First strikes available ( the only other one under 100 )
Uncirculated
92) Letitia Tyler----- 70 First strikes available ( Key )
95) Louisa Adams-- 70 First Strikes available
95) Anna Harrison-- 70 First strikes available
I personally own 2 of the Margaret Taylor Proofs and 3 Letitia Tyler Uncs.
I wounder how many we on this board control.
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though.
how many not on the registry are collecting?
Abigail unc. gone also
Abigail Proof
Buchanan Unc
Mary Lincoln Proof and Unc.
Plus the next spouse Eliza Johnson is TBD, while the others for 2011 have release dates.
Weird.
Plus the next spouse Eliza Johnson is TBD, while the others for 2011 have release dates.
Weird. >>
That is ODD.
<< <i>Plus the next spouse Eliza Johnson is TBD, while the others for 2011 have release dates.
Weird. >>
That is ODD.
I think it has to do with the design being rejected so still working that out? Not totally sure on that.
<< <i>
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though.
how many not on the registry are collecting?
Also, keep in mind the the coin collecting hobby is not static. Demand changes as circumstances change. Some love to chase the elusive; kind of like the alpha-dog wanting the biggest bone. Sorry for the analogy.
<< <i>
<< <i>At present it is unlikely there are more than 50 people who want a full set of PR or MS70s. >>
PCGS Registry sets show 63 proof collectors and 55 uncirculated collectors building sets. not all first strike though.
how many not on the registry are collecting?
Make me one of the unaccounted for as I have hags graded by both TPGs. There are 91 combined proof and unc sets ATS of which 12 are over 90% complete. I also have a portion of mine still raw with OGP. So many coins and so little money
My Pierce Proofs went from one unit reserved and two B/O'd to canceled :-(
My three Buchs went from one unit reserved and two B/O'd to:
2 units backordered. Expected to ship on 04/07/2011.
W/the cancel box re-appeared!
Has this ever happened to any of you - the cancel box re-appearing??
Not looking good :-(
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
Do you have any idea how many Proof and Unc Mary Lincoln did the Mint strike?
thx
Eric
Regarding the Buch proof backorder, I ordered 2 right after it went red. A couple days ago it showed 1 reserved.
However, yesterday it sent me an email saying that the order is cancelled. One thing quite strange is that my credit card was
charged the amount of 1 coin. I suspect they are going to ship me one coin, and most likely a returned one. Lets see.
<< <i>Hi Eric,
Do you have any idea how many Proof and Unc Mary Lincoln did the Mint strike?
thx >>
Just another First Hags 1/2 ounce bullion coin in my opinion. I wouldn't be paying a premium for it.
That is some kind of Evil drop. I have NEVER seen one that bad on a percentage basis prior to final audit corrections before.
Eric
<< <i>Guess some large buyer or buyers got cold feet this weekend and dumped some mint state Buchanan gold. The weekly sales report crashed over 400 coins this week. Could be that they found out that the coin was struck to over 6,000 and was not the opportunity that they had hoped for.
That is some kind of Evil drop. I have NEVER seen one that bad on a percentage basis prior to final audit corrections before.
Eric >>
Boy, that guy probably got banned at the Mint for awhile.