<< <i>With platinum spot now at at $1800 we are getting close to that point where PR/MS69s in none key years are at risk being sent to smelters. >>
The question, of course, is if they really DO get sent to the smelters. As always, any data on that is extremely welcome here. I do note that some supposedly non-key proof dates seem to be going for unusually large premiums on APMEX, and I wonder what that's about.
With platinum spot now at at $1800 we are getting close to that point where PR/MS69s in none key years are at risk being sent to smelters.
It's funny you should mention that, because in my own case it is absolutely true. I started selling some of my duplicates on BST with spot at $1,700 in order to fund the purchase of some of the Plats that I don't have.
I've noticed that it's easier to sell the fractionals than the 1 ozers.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I am still paying a very sizeable premium on proof platinum (and there is a strong premium on bullion 1 oz. coins as well) , so it is unlikely any of that will melted any time soon (as I am of course not the only one out there paying these premiums)
On many $25 and $50 bullion platinum, much more likely some could be melted as the premiums have shrunk dangerously close to spot. Bullion $10's are heading that way, but not in the same league as $25 and $50 coins I believe.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< I am still paying a very sizeable premium on proof platinum (and there is a strong premium on bullion 1 oz. coins as well) , so it is unlikely any of that will melted any time soon (as I am of course not the only one out there paying these premiums)
On many $25 and $50 bullion platinum, much more likely some could be melted as the premiums have shrunk dangerously close to spot. Bullion $10's are heading that way, but not in the same league as $25 and $50 coins I believe. >>
Wondercoin, do you know the reason for the high premium on 1-oz. plats compared to the fractionals?
If the demand is coming from collectors, I would think the fractionals would carry a higher premium (as gold does) because the smaller denominations are more affordable.
If the demand is coming from bullion investors or refiners, I would think that the percentage premiums would be about the same for all sizes.
Either way, an extra premium for the 1-oz. coins doesn't appear to make economic sense.
Investors / speculators / telemarketers, etc. love the large, impressive looking $100 bullion platinum coins, not to mention the fact the mint still sells the proof version so they are essentially on the "radar screen" still.
I highly doubt that the premiums being paid for the MS $100's are "collector driven" as, you are right ... collectors might often prefer the smaller coins (often times with smaller mintages) and easier on the budget.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I will have to take the opposite view to Wondercoin on the issue of collectors wanting the smaller coins.
I would say, on the contrary, that collectors in general prefer the larger coins with dollars always selling for more than a similar rarity half dollar and the same with dimes/half-dimes and cents/half-cents. And with bullion coins you will only take the fractional if you can’t afford the 1oz size or already have it.
I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set?
Just got my shipping confirmation for a 1/2-oz proof AGE I ordered on 12/15. Was surprised to get that one, and am curious about the dynamics of these. Obviously, they aren't rare. Does a yearly shortage of them occur, however, because of demand for IRAs?
<< <i>I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set? >>
They've been going for about $4500-$4700 for quite some time. I watch them because I sold a bunch of them two year ago for half that and it still bums me out.... :-(
On another note....I see that a 2008 w $100 PCGS Plat proof went for just under $5K a few days ago. Is this new?? I don't remember them at that level but I've not checked in some time.
I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set?
My data shows that they dropped a bit, down to just under $4,300-$4,400 for a few sales, and the most recent one was $4,524 raw. A few had sold around $5K, and they might come back to that level before too long.
On another note....I see that a 2008 w $100 PCGS Plat proof went for just under $5K a few days ago. Is this new?? I don't remember them at that level but I've not checked in some time.
I sure didn't see that one go by. My estimate would be around $3,000 for a 70 and around $2,500 for a 69.
Any platinum coins lately seem to be tough to find in stores.....
I was just offered $40 over spot at Apmex, maybe a bit more for PCGS on some 1 ozers that I have extras of. They are only buying the fractionals at spot, maybe a small premium for PCGS. CNI seems to be at the same level to buy 1 ozers, and it appears that their buy prices for fractionals is also right at spot.
Wondercoin seems to be correct on this, but it doesn't seem logical to me either since fractional Plats have always been sold at higher premiums for the smaller coins.
I think that as precious metals continue to rise, we will see lots more anomalies occur, with ever more tortured explanations as to why dealers pay lower premiums and ask higher premiums.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set?
My data shows that they dropped a bit, down to just under $4,300-$4,400 for a few sales, and the most recent one was $4,524 raw. A few had sold around $5K, and they might come back to that level before too long.
On another note....I see that a 2008 w $100 PCGS Plat proof went for just under $5K a few days ago. Is this new?? I don't remember them at that level but I've not checked in some time.
I sure didn't see that one go by. My estimate would be around $3,000 for a 70 and around $2,500 for a 69.
Any platinum coins lately seem to be tough to find in stores.....
I was just offered $40 over spot at Apmex, maybe a bit more for PCGS on some 1 ozers that I have extras of. They are only buying the fractionals at spot, maybe a small premium for PCGS. CNI seems to be at the same level to buy 1 ozers, and it appears that their buy prices for fractionals is also right at spot.
Wondercoin seems to be correct on this, but it doesn't seem logical to me either since fractional Plats have always been sold at higher premiums for the smaller coins.
I think that as precious metals continue to rise, we will see lots more anomalies occur, with ever more tortured explanations as to why dealers pay lower premiums and ask higher premiums. >>
You can still find the $5K plat on ebay completed auctions. It was, I think, Jan. 5.
jMSKI52 - Did you happen to ask AMPEX or those other dealers you contacted why they want to pay virtually nothing over spot for any denominations of platinum bullion other than the $100 denomination? I would be curious as to their reasoning. As I mentioned, this is the state of the market today ... but exactly why ... tough to say.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
WC, I only spoke with Apmex directly and I didn't ask for an explanation. As far as I'm concerned, any explanation wouldn't make any logical sense. No point in debating it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I have one PCGS MS70FS Julia left. I had planned to keep it. At over $4500 I'm rethinking. Could these move higher? These prices seem nuts. Folks sure are betting A LOT on the Julia unc staying the key.
Coolest- A possible problem with your analysis might be that "collectors in general" are not "platinum collectors". We are a "different breed".
I'm with Mitch on this subject. I know a few investors and in most cases they tend to prefer the bigger coins for one simple reason, storage. They rather have one ounce of Silver, Gold or Platinum rather than 10 1/10 ounce coins because they occupy less space. This is often more true when the coins are slabbed because then you would have to store 10 slabs versus 1.
I'm a collector and I don't really invest so I don't have to worry about storage. I like the quarter ounce proofs (3 ounces total for a full set). I only have to worry about storing 12 slabs. If I was an investor I would rather have the same amount of Platinum in one ounce coins, that way I only have to worry about 3 slabs...
The US Mint 2010 Annual Report was published on Friday 1/14. It can be seen HERE.
I could only find one reference to the 2009 Uncirculated Annual Coin sets in a chart on page 18. It Indicated there were 785,000 sets.
If this is correct, then 11,411 sets were sold in the final few days before they ended sales on June 15, 2010.
This would also verify that the 2009 COPPER uncirculated Lincoln cents are the lowest mintage non-proof cent since the 1909S VDB (484,000). Is there some symbolism here?
PLEASE correct this if I am wrong -- but it looks like these could be BIG winners.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Should I sell my (3) 2006-w MS70 FS Platinum sets, or do they have some potential still? I should have let them go when on Ebay I could have landed 7.5K a set.
Someone asked about Julia first spouse, I to have five MS70`s FS Julia`s. My gut tells me to hold them all, but after the 06 plats, I wonder.
<< <i>According to NN 1-25-11, 2011-W unc's are coming back in gold and silver. One ounce only, no fracs. >>
I read that, too, but didn't see that they specifically won't be doing fractionals--which seems to leave the door open as to their intentions. Still, I would guess that they do not have fractionals in mind.
If #1 succeeds, I'm in for one. That is the most awesome design of the bunch, IMO. I won't believe it until it's done, though. I'm jaded for sure, but it just seems too "anti-PC" to get chosen...
I also like Design 1 & 2 as selected by CCAC. I hope Design 5 as recommended by CFA (I believe) does not get accepted. Designs 8 & 9 presents about the same boring theme as the one selected in 2009.
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks!
<< <i>I also like Design 1 & 2 as selected by CCAC. I hope Design 5 as recommended by CFA (I believe) does not get accepted. Designs 8 & 9 presents about the same boring theme as the one selected in 2009.
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks! >>
I'm not him , but just copy the address, reply or quote to the thread, click the http button, allow the temp thing, paste the address, name it and walla... .
<< <i>If #1 succeeds, I'm in for one. That is the most awesome design of the bunch, IMO. I won't believe it until it's done, though. I'm jaded for sure, but it just seems too "anti-PC" to get chosen... >>
<< <i>I also like Design 1 & 2 as selected by CCAC. I hope Design 5 as recommended by CFA (I believe) does not get accepted. Designs 8 & 9 presents about the same boring theme as the one selected in 2009.
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks! >>
I'm not him , but just copy the address, reply or quote to the thread, click the http button, allow the temp thing, paste the address, name it and walla... . >>
D, this is what I get: http://coinupdate.com/Link1 What am I doing wrong? I wanted to experiment and named the link as "Link1." Thanks!
Comments
I can't believe how much this o8 1/4 eagle has gone up.
Buy Erics book if you don't have it,
either way the coin you choose will have upside from here.
I am no expert but based on what I have read and my own desire for the coin I would buy and hold, enjoy period.
<< <i>The reason I asked there is one on APMEX at the moment for $1195 + S/H
So I'm debating whether this is a reasonable price to pay for unknown quality ... >>
One just sold in a mint sealed box for $1,200, still seems like a buy.
<< <i>With platinum spot now at at $1800 we are getting close to that point where PR/MS69s in none key years are at risk being sent to smelters. >>
The question, of course, is if they really DO get sent to the smelters. As always, any data on that is extremely welcome here. I do note that some supposedly non-key proof dates seem to be going for unusually large premiums on APMEX, and I wonder what that's about.
It's funny you should mention that, because in my own case it is absolutely true. I started selling some of my duplicates on BST with spot at $1,700 in order to fund the purchase of some of the Plats that I don't have.
I've noticed that it's easier to sell the fractionals than the 1 ozers.
I knew it would happen.
I am still paying a very sizeable premium on proof platinum (and there is a strong premium on bullion 1 oz. coins as well) , so it is unlikely any of that will melted any time soon (as I am of course not the only one out there paying these premiums)
On many $25 and $50 bullion platinum, much more likely some could be melted as the premiums have shrunk dangerously close to spot. Bullion $10's are heading that way, but not in the same league as $25 and $50 coins I believe.
Wondercoin
On many $25 and $50 bullion platinum, much more likely some could be melted as the premiums have shrunk dangerously close to spot. Bullion $10's are heading that way, but not in the same league as $25 and $50 coins I believe.
>>
Wondercoin, do you know the reason for the high premium on 1-oz. plats compared to the fractionals?
If the demand is coming from collectors, I would think the fractionals would carry a higher premium (as gold does) because the smaller denominations are more affordable.
If the demand is coming from bullion investors or refiners, I would think that the percentage premiums would be about the same for all sizes.
Either way, an extra premium for the 1-oz. coins doesn't appear to make economic sense.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Investors / speculators / telemarketers, etc. love the large, impressive looking $100 bullion platinum coins, not to mention the fact the mint still sells the proof version so they are essentially on the "radar screen" still.
I highly doubt that the premiums being paid for the MS $100's are "collector driven" as, you are right ... collectors might often prefer the smaller coins (often times with smaller mintages) and easier on the budget.
Wondercoin
I would say, on the contrary, that collectors in general prefer the larger coins with dollars always selling for more than a similar rarity half dollar and the same with dimes/half-dimes and cents/half-cents. And with bullion coins you will only take the fractional if you can’t afford the 1oz size or already have it.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set? >>
They've been going for about $4500-$4700 for quite some time. I watch them because I sold a bunch of them two year ago for half that and it still bums me out.... :-(
and an NGC PF70 asking $6600
I guess the real value is somthing less than these?
My data shows that they dropped a bit, down to just under $4,300-$4,400 for a few sales, and the most recent one was $4,524 raw. A few had sold around $5K, and they might come back to that level before too long.
On another note....I see that a 2008 w $100 PCGS Plat proof went for just under $5K a few days ago. Is this new?? I don't remember them at that level but I've not checked in some time.
I sure didn't see that one go by. My estimate would be around $3,000 for a 70 and around $2,500 for a 69.
Any platinum coins lately seem to be tough to find in stores.....
I was just offered $40 over spot at Apmex, maybe a bit more for PCGS on some 1 ozers that I have extras of. They are only buying the fractionals at spot, maybe a small premium for PCGS. CNI seems to be at the same level to buy 1 ozers, and it appears that their buy prices for fractionals is also right at spot.
Wondercoin seems to be correct on this, but it doesn't seem logical to me either since fractional Plats have always been sold at higher premiums for the smaller coins.
I think that as precious metals continue to rise, we will see lots more anomalies occur, with ever more tortured explanations as to why dealers pay lower premiums and ask higher premiums.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I recall seeing a 2008-W burnished plat set in OGP sell for $5K on Ebay a couple of weeks ago. Is that price an anomaly or is that close to the current going rate for the burnished set?
My data shows that they dropped a bit, down to just under $4,300-$4,400 for a few sales, and the most recent one was $4,524 raw. A few had sold around $5K, and they might come back to that level before too long.
On another note....I see that a 2008 w $100 PCGS Plat proof went for just under $5K a few days ago. Is this new?? I don't remember them at that level but I've not checked in some time.
I sure didn't see that one go by. My estimate would be around $3,000 for a 70 and around $2,500 for a 69.
Any platinum coins lately seem to be tough to find in stores.....
I was just offered $40 over spot at Apmex, maybe a bit more for PCGS on some 1 ozers that I have extras of. They are only buying the fractionals at spot, maybe a small premium for PCGS. CNI seems to be at the same level to buy 1 ozers, and it appears that their buy prices for fractionals is also right at spot.
Wondercoin seems to be correct on this, but it doesn't seem logical to me either since fractional Plats have always been sold at higher premiums for the smaller coins.
I think that as precious metals continue to rise, we will see lots more anomalies occur, with ever more tortured explanations as to why dealers pay lower premiums and ask higher premiums. >>
You can still find the $5K plat on ebay completed auctions. It was, I think, Jan. 5.
Wondercoin
I knew it would happen.
I'm with Mitch on this subject. I know a few investors and in most cases they tend to prefer the bigger coins for one simple reason, storage. They rather have one ounce of Silver, Gold or Platinum rather than 10 1/10 ounce coins because they occupy less space. This is often more true when the coins are slabbed because then you would have to store 10 slabs versus 1.
I'm a collector and I don't really invest so I don't have to worry about storage. I like the quarter ounce proofs (3 ounces total for a full set). I only have to worry about storing 12 slabs. If I was an investor I would rather have the same amount of Platinum in one ounce coins, that way I only have to worry about 3 slabs...
The US Mint 2010 Annual Report was published on Friday 1/14. It can be seen HERE.
I could only find one reference to the 2009 Uncirculated Annual Coin sets in a chart on page 18. It Indicated there were 785,000 sets.
If this is correct, then 11,411 sets were sold in the final few days before they ended sales on June 15, 2010.
This would also verify that the 2009 COPPER uncirculated Lincoln cents are the lowest mintage non-proof cent since the 1909S VDB (484,000). Is there some symbolism here?
Other historical key date Lincoln mintages:
1909-S VDB: 484,000
1909-S: 1,825,00
1914-D: 1,193,000
1931-S: 866,000
PLEASE correct this if I am wrong -- but it looks like these could be BIG winners.
Someone asked about Julia first spouse, I to have five MS70`s FS Julia`s. My gut tells me to hold them all, but after the 06 plats, I wonder.
<< <i>According to NN 1-25-11, 2011-W unc's are coming back in gold and silver. One ounce only, no fracs. >>
I read that, too, but didn't see that they specifically won't be doing fractionals--which seems to leave the door open as to their intentions. Still, I would guess that they do not have fractionals in mind.
"American Eagle Uncirculated Fractional Coins were discontinued after the 2008 program year."
Link.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
It looks like the seller has to take a net loss of $100 + on them.
http://news.coinupdate.com/ccac-reviews-american-platinum-eagle-designs-0649/
<< <i>CCAC highly recommends reverse design 1 & 2 for the 2011 Proof American Platinum Eagles: >>
I agree with them! Too bad it's not gold.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks!
<< <i>I also like Design 1 & 2 as selected by CCAC. I hope Design 5 as recommended by CFA (I believe) does not get accepted. Designs 8 & 9 presents about the same boring theme as the one selected in 2009.
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks! >>
I'm not him
<< <i>If #1 succeeds, I'm in for one. That is the most awesome design of the bunch, IMO. I won't believe it until it's done, though. I'm jaded for sure, but it just seems too "anti-PC" to get chosen... >>
My vote is for #1 also.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>I also like Design 1 & 2 as selected by CCAC. I hope Design 5 as recommended by CFA (I believe) does not get accepted. Designs 8 & 9 presents about the same boring theme as the one selected in 2009.
SNMAN, how did you converted the URL I provided to a link? I tried using the menu but was not successful. Thanks! >>
I'm not him
D, this is what I get: http://coinupdate.com/Link1
What am I doing wrong? I wanted to experiment and named the link as "Link1." Thanks!
I agree. In fact, if they choose anything but #1, I may decide that it's time to throw in the towel on Plats.
I knew it would happen.
That's what many said of the 2009 design. But, few threw in the towel. If you are like me, you're too hooked to throw in the towel!!
Wondercoin
(written before I even looked at #1 and #2 and I may not look!)
I knew it would happen.
Wondercoin
Comrade Renski
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
I knew it would happen.