I think Geithner may select #5, as recommended by CFA, because 2010 design was recommended by CCAC. Treasury seem to alternate to not show partiality. >>
Remember, the G-man picked the Sand Dunes for the ATB Colorado quarter. When I think of Colorado I think of.....sand dunes(?) Btw, he grew up nearby. So my guess is no "hottie" and he'll be pressured to pick one of the last two.
The last 2 look like the posters they have up in federal offices explaining policy regulations. For example: which one of those people is abusing the system by using sick leave today because they ran out of annual leave? I guess not the baby.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>Agreed. #2 is my favorite. How about them relaxing just a bit on the whole PC thing? >>
I think both #1 and #2 are stunning! Chairman of CCAC said the following regarding design 2:
Chairman Gary Marks said he was drawn to design 2, but also thought design 1 was “a fine design.” Turning back to design 2, Mr. Marks found it to be a simple design, and “has the allegory that we’ve [the CCAC] been asking for.” He also commented that in a proof coin, the second design would be “an absolutely beautiful coin.”
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
<< <i>On another subject, a sheer speculation question:
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
I think that it may be the 2008 W $10 Unc. AGE. >>
Hard to go wrong with any of the 2008Ws.....I quite like the $5 and $10 gold. They're nice bottlenecks and the two denominations are the most affordable. Don't think you can go too wrong with them.
But....they are going to continue fractional W-minted unc. pieces this year, right? If they are, there is a possibility that the '08s could lose the lowest mintage crown in the future.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< But....they are going to continue fractional W-minted unc. pieces this year, right? If they are, there is a possibility that the '08s could lose the lowest mintage crown in the future. >>
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it.
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
Maybe since platinim coins are thinly traded you see more market distortions. Could it be as simple as uninformed buyers?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
It is also interesting how the dynamics of 'perception of cost' comes into play.
A raw 2006-2008 1 oz. burnished plat costs around 2K and represents a mintage below 5K
Premium over spot is in range of 10-25%.
There are few players.................
And yet there are many, many collectors who don't think twice about holding in face value over $2,000 in rolled state quarters, presidental dollars and clad mint sets with mintages in the millions.........
<< <i>On another subject, a sheer speculation question:
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
I think that it may be the 2008 W $10 Unc. AGE. >>
The $10 Unc W AGE is certainly a strong choice. I think I'm going to go with the 1/4-ounce unc buff, though. I actually like the proof version better, but with the lower mintage... If proof plats ever really do catch on, though, all bets are off.
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
Maybe since platinim coins are thinly traded you see more market distortions. Could it be as simple as uninformed buyers? >>
**************
Self direct ROTH IRA outfits bought almost the whole mintage and they are off the market. The remaining coins that were sold to collectors and dealers are very few and far between. Thus the higher price than the mintage chart would otherwise indicate. Problem is they will come back to market and they (2009-2010) will not end up king. Its a short to medium term market distortion.
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins. At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
A partial explanation, at least, is that the 2009 & 2010 are the first two pieces in a new six year set, that can stand by itself, at least in the minds of the new platinum buyers. More people are being attracted to platinum as a precious metal, but the enormous cost, time and effort of acquiring or collecting all the other issues, previous to 2009, 109 of them, is daunting. Thus the disproportionate demand and high prices for the 2009 & 2010 coins are being driven by a new crop of platinophiles. The 2006-2008 12-coin burnished pieces are mainly sought by persons attempting to make a complete platinum collection, or by individuals chasing low mintages per se. I'd expect the new platinophiles from the class of 2009-2010 to first gravitate towards other platinum proofs before taking any interest at all in ordinary mint state or burnished APEs, but the market indications are that only very few seem to be chasing after the earlier proofs, as mentioned above by other posters.
I was told that fractional W mint statetgold issues were being considered but by no means certain of even highly likely. Coin not coins is intentional IMHO.
Sorry to hear about that Coinspeak. I wish you luck relocating them. Fortunately, there are serial number attached...
I'm guessing that we won't see fractionals for awhile if ever again. There is/was some real dilution going on.
Bummer--but also some peace of mind for the folks holding 2008 fractional pieces. The low mintages of that year probably won't be usurped anytime too soon?
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
i had many coins stolen from me in white plains ny westchester county
doesn't anyone in trhis area realize they bought alot of obviously stolen coins????? >>
I would alert the PNG. They will alert their dealer members. Of course, let the local LE know as well as Pawn shops, jewlery shops, etc. Good luck!! Were they stolen at a show?
<< <i> << But....they are going to continue fractional W-minted unc. pieces this year, right? If they are, there is a possibility that the '08s could lose the lowest mintage crown in the future. >>
<< <i>What's up with the '08 W plats on Ebay. No sets sold in over two weeks?? Are the plats dead?? >>
Are you referring to the proofs, the burnished, or both? I agree that fewer sets and individual coins seem to have been offered recently, but might that just reflect their extremely small mintages and their long overdue greater dispersal? Certainly interest in platinum was recently stimulated by the discovery of the 2007W frosted freedom proof variant. Also, the platinum spot price is fluctuating at close to its high post-July 2008. We can expect another bump in platinum around May 26th when the 2011 issue is released, and most especially if the chosen design turns out to be the lovely woman with a dove in a grain field.
<< <i>What's up with the '08 W plats on Ebay. No sets sold in over two weeks?? Are the plats dead?? >>
Are you referring to the proofs, the burnished, or both? I agree that fewer sets and individual coins seem to have been offered recently, but might that just reflect their extremely small mintages and their long overdue greater dispersal? Certainly interest in platinum was recently stimulated by the discovery of the 2007W frosted freedom proof variant. Also, the platinum spot price is fluctuating at close to its high post-July 2008. We can expect another bump in platinum around May 26th when the 2011 issue is released, and most especially if the chosen design turns out to be the lovely woman with a dove in a grain field. >>
I was referring to both. There at the time that I posted (didn't check since) there were not sets that had sold for over two weeks w/few listed. I never would have guessed in '08 that these would be so slow to do anything. Not that they've done nothing, they're over 2x issue, but I'd have thought that they would have done better. Look a the '08 W Buffs, etc. Larger collector base, etc., etc. but still...
Notice that the proof Pierce is back dated not the 14 days rolling but 17 days now. May be that the rest of the mints inventory on this coin is moving over the PB for shipment just like we have seen in the November back order on the proof gold Buchanans. Proof Pierce is likely to blow through 5,000 coins if their is another shipment because it has about 3-4 months left to sell.
I do think the unc Pierce has fairly strong prospects and is very likely to be struck to "anticipated demand" of about 3250 but no more than 3,500 coins because I do not believe that they struck any more of them than they did on the first pass on unc Bucks. The Pierce sold about 3150 on the order report as of last Monday. So it may well read over 3200 by this week.
I sure don't like the Mint's policy ot "anticipated" demand. It creates a situation where the mintages are about the same. If they figure demand is 3200 or so then all of the mintages will be in that ballpark until there is either less demand or more and then they slowly creep one direction or another. Very boring.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
This is true to a certain extent. A coin to become great must be despised or have a very short strike period or have something go wrong early on before the series becomes collected. BUT remember that set structure has be be right. Go look at the classic commems. The rarest issues in the series are the date and mint mark rare issues running in the 3,000 coin range but they do not bring as much as the 10,000-15,000 mintage issues that are type rare.
Structure is important in long term collector interest and price behavior. Go reread our book sections covering stable and unstable design models.
For Shallow Keys not more than twice as rare as semi key.
P2= Price of Semi Key or Second place key at time of series maturity. P1= Price of Key Date at time of series maturity
M2= Mintage of Semi Key date M1= Mintage of Key date
F=power factor ranging from 2.0 to 3.0 in most cases. 5,000 and less mintage shallow keys tend to display a factor of about 3 while higher mintage shallow keys tend to come in around 2.
P2 x (M2/M1)^F=P1
So
For Van Buren Unc at time of series maturity M1= 3,800 M2= 4,600 P2=$1,600 and I doubt this price is mature yet. NGC70
Assuming power factor of 3.0
$1,600 x (4600/3800)^3.0=$2,800 +
For Buchanan Proof M1= 5,900 average of likely data (this is not a prediction) M2= 6,800 P2=$1,500 and I doubt this price is mature yet.
I hear you loud and clear Eric. I went to the Mint website with the idea I might pull the rounded thing in the trigger-guard for the Pierce; yet....
That is one prohibitally bum-ugly obverse and let's not talk about the reverse (as it is will nearly all of the Spouse series).
NO, I will not be reverse-seduced by the unattractive low-mintage after closing time road-kills! I have my Julias and my honor and I am sticking with her!!
Now Miles I did not say the coin is good looking. In a series with mintages this low and close together I think looks will count some. I am just pointing out I think this coin is going to crash well before sell out date. Thats all. I have a few of the 3100-3400 mintage unc generic Hags but my money is mostly in Liberty issues. I agree with you that Julia is the class act of the low mintage generics.
Comments
<< <i>link >>
1 for sure.
<< <i>You guys are voting for #1 just because it has a hot girl. >>
I'd resent that if it weren't true :-)
I agree that 8 and 9 - PC on steroids - makes me want to puke.
7 is pretty awsome. There is something about the face that's not quite right, but I really like the design. POWER.
<< <i>
<< <i>link >>
1 for sure. >>
I think Geithner may select #5, as recommended by CFA, because 2010 design was recommended by CCAC. Treasury seem to alternate to not show partiality.
<< <i>I am sure there is a rule against sexual innuendos "3 inches" lol >>
I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>link >>
1 for sure. >>
I think Geithner may select #5, as recommended by CFA, because 2010 design was recommended by CCAC. Treasury seem to alternate to not show partiality. >>
Remember, the G-man picked the Sand Dunes for the ATB Colorado quarter. When I think of Colorado I think of.....sand dunes(?) Btw, he grew up nearby. So my guess is no "hottie" and he'll be pressured to pick one of the last two.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Agreed. #2 is my favorite. How about them relaxing just a bit on the whole PC thing? >>
I think both #1 and #2 are stunning! Chairman of CCAC said the following regarding design 2:
Chairman Gary Marks said he was drawn to design 2, but also thought design 1 was “a fine design.” Turning back to design 2, Mr. Marks found it to be a simple design, and “has the allegory that we’ve [the CCAC] been asking for.” He also commented that in a proof coin, the second design would be “an absolutely beautiful coin.”
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
I think that it may be the 2008 W $10 Unc. AGE.
<< <i>On another subject, a sheer speculation question:
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
I think that it may be the 2008 W $10 Unc. AGE. >>
Hard to go wrong with any of the 2008Ws.....I quite like the $5 and $10 gold. They're nice bottlenecks and the two denominations are the most affordable. Don't think you can go too wrong with them.
But....they are going to continue fractional W-minted unc. pieces this year, right? If they are, there is a possibility that the '08s could lose the lowest mintage crown in the future.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins.
No.
Link.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it.
To get more accurate and logical pricing it may take a few more years to sort out relative collector/flipper/bullion/hoarder demand.
I was considering selling an extra 2006-w FS burnished 1 oz. plat and on checking prices I was surprised at the low premium over spot.
<< <i>
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
Maybe since platinim coins are thinly traded you see more market distortions. Could it be as simple as uninformed buyers?
A raw 2006-2008 1 oz. burnished plat costs around 2K and represents a mintage below 5K
Premium over spot is in range of 10-25%.
There are few players.................
And yet there are many, many collectors who don't think twice about holding in face value over $2,000 in rolled state quarters, presidental dollars and clad mint sets with mintages in the millions.........
<< <i>On another subject, a sheer speculation question:
Of all of the amazing issues of 2008, in 10 years which do you think will be the best performer with respect to raw sales price over issue? Just curious what you all think. Please exclude the '08 w/rev. '07 which is clearly the winner via this parameter. I'm talking gold and plat.
I think that it may be the 2008 W $10 Unc. AGE. >>
The $10 Unc W AGE is certainly a strong choice. I think I'm going to go with the 1/4-ounce unc buff, though. I actually like the proof version better, but with the lower mintage... If proof plats ever really do catch on, though, all bets are off.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins.
At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
Maybe since platinim coins are thinly traded you see more market distortions. Could it be as simple as uninformed buyers? >>
**************
Self direct ROTH IRA outfits bought almost the whole mintage and they are off the market. The remaining coins that were sold to collectors and dealers are very few and far between. Thus the higher price than the mintage chart would otherwise indicate. Problem is they will come back to market and they (2009-2010) will not end up king. Its a short to medium term market distortion.
<< <i>
<< <i>I continue to be surprised by the market strength of the 1 oz. 2009-2010 platinum proofs in relation to the 2006-2008-W burnished 1 oz. coins. At the 2-4 year mark market demand for the proof coins seems to be trumping demand for the lower mintage burnished uncirculated coins. >>
Can someone please help me understand this? The 2009 (PC design makes me want to barf) and the 2010 plat proof are high-mintage yet they bring more than the 2007s and many other proof plats. I don't get it. >>
A partial explanation, at least, is that the 2009 & 2010 are the first two pieces in a new six year set, that can stand by itself, at least in the minds of the new platinum buyers. More people are being attracted to platinum as a precious metal, but the enormous cost, time and effort of acquiring or collecting all the other issues, previous to 2009, 109 of them, is daunting. Thus the disproportionate demand and high prices for the 2009 & 2010 coins are being driven by a new crop of platinophiles. The 2006-2008 12-coin burnished pieces are mainly sought by persons attempting to make a complete platinum collection, or by individuals chasing low mintages per se. I'd expect the new platinophiles from the class of 2009-2010 to first gravitate towards other platinum proofs before taking any interest at all in ordinary mint state or burnished APEs, but the market indications are that only very few seem to be chasing after the earlier proofs, as mentioned above by other posters.
04/21/2011 2011 American Eagle Gold Proof Coins
05/05/2011 2011 American Eagle Uncirculated Gold Coin
since the uncirculated is not plural does that mean they will only be doing the 1 oz.???
Eric
"American Eagle Uncirculated Fractional Coins were discontinued after the 2008 program year."
Link.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
i had many coins stolen from me in white plains ny westchester county
doesn't anyone in trhis area realize they bought alot of obviously stolen coins?????
who would sell
ms70 pcgs 1 oz unc w buffalo 2008
ms70 w 1 oz plat 2008 pcgs
ms70 w 1/2 oz w buffalo pcgs
the thieves left the 1/4 ms 70 buff and 1/10 ms 70 buff behind ???
<< <i>The official word at the moment is, no more "W" uncirculated fractional Gold Eagles:
"American Eagle Uncirculated Fractional Coins were discontinued after the 2008 program year."
Link. >>
Sorry to hear about that Coinspeak. I wish you luck relocating them. Fortunately, there are serial number attached...
I'm guessing that we won't see fractionals for awhile if ever again. There is/was some real dilution going on.
Bummer--but also some peace of mind for the folks holding 2008 fractional pieces. The low mintages of that year probably won't be usurped anytime too soon?
<< <i>please help me with ideas or suggestions
i had many coins stolen from me in white plains ny westchester county
doesn't anyone in trhis area realize they bought alot of obviously stolen coins????? >>
I would alert the PNG. They will alert their dealer members. Of course, let the local LE know as well as Pawn shops, jewlery shops, etc. Good luck!! Were they stolen at a show?
<< <i> << But....they are going to continue fractional W-minted unc. pieces this year, right? If they are, there is a possibility that the '08s could lose the lowest mintage crown in the future. >>
No.
Link. >>
link Ok but what about this? Sorry. Didn't see the post above.
<< <i>"American Eagle Uncirculated Fractional Coins were discontinued after the 2008 program year." >>
Key to your comment is "at the moment"
Dont think for one second that statement above couldn't be reversed.
<< <i>What's up with the '08 W plats on Ebay. No sets sold in over two weeks?? Are the plats dead?? >>
Are you referring to the proofs, the burnished, or both? I agree that fewer sets and individual coins seem to have been offered recently, but might that just reflect their extremely small mintages and their long overdue greater dispersal? Certainly interest in platinum was recently stimulated by the discovery of the 2007W frosted freedom proof variant. Also, the platinum spot price is fluctuating at close to its high post-July 2008. We can expect another bump in platinum around May 26th when the 2011 issue is released, and most especially if the chosen design turns out to be the lovely woman with a dove in a grain field.
<< <i>
<< <i>What's up with the '08 W plats on Ebay. No sets sold in over two weeks?? Are the plats dead?? >>
Are you referring to the proofs, the burnished, or both? I agree that fewer sets and individual coins seem to have been offered recently, but might that just reflect their extremely small mintages and their long overdue greater dispersal? Certainly interest in platinum was recently stimulated by the discovery of the 2007W frosted freedom proof variant. Also, the platinum spot price is fluctuating at close to its high post-July 2008. We can expect another bump in platinum around May 26th when the 2011 issue is released, and most especially if the chosen design turns out to be the lovely woman with a dove in a grain field. >>
I was referring to both. There at the time that I posted (didn't check since) there were not sets that had sold for over two weeks w/few listed. I never would have guessed in '08 that these would be so slow to do anything. Not that they've done nothing, they're over 2x issue, but I'd have thought that they would have done better. Look a the '08 W Buffs, etc. Larger collector base, etc., etc. but still...
Maybe the will all go to be melted instead of being reintroduced into the marketplace. That would be nice.
Box of 20
I do think the unc Pierce has fairly strong prospects and is very likely to be struck to "anticipated demand" of about 3250 but no more than 3,500 coins because I do not believe that they struck any more of them than they did on the first pass on unc Bucks. The Pierce sold about 3150 on the order report as of last Monday. So it may well read over 3200 by this week.
Eric
I knew it would happen.
Structure is important in long term collector interest and price behavior. Go reread our book sections covering stable and unstable design models.
Eric
P2= Price of Semi Key or Second place key at time of series maturity.
P1= Price of Key Date at time of series maturity
M2= Mintage of Semi Key date
M1= Mintage of Key date
F=power factor ranging from 2.0 to 3.0 in most cases. 5,000 and less mintage shallow keys tend to display a factor of about 3 while higher mintage shallow keys tend to come in around 2.
P2 x (M2/M1)^F=P1
So
For Van Buren Unc at time of series maturity
M1= 3,800
M2= 4,600
P2=$1,600 and I doubt this price is mature yet. NGC70
Assuming power factor of 3.0
$1,600 x (4600/3800)^3.0=$2,800 +
For Buchanan Proof
M1= 5,900 average of likely data (this is not a prediction)
M2= 6,800
P2=$1,500 and I doubt this price is mature yet.
Assuming a power factor of 2.0
$1,500 x (6800/5900)^2.0=$2,000+
That is one prohibitally bum-ugly obverse and let's not talk about the reverse (as it is will nearly all of the Spouse series).
NO, I will not be reverse-seduced by the unattractive low-mintage after closing time road-kills! I have my Julias and my honor and I am sticking with her!!
Miles
Eric