According to law, all gold bullion bars with a minimum pureness of 0.995% fineness and NYMEX- or COMEX- approved refiner/assayer hallmark can be added to an IRA, but only select gold bullion coins.
The United States government currently allows Gold American Eagles and Gold proof American Eagles in IRAs. Other gold coins allowed to be put into an IRA include the American Buffalo, Canadian Gold Maple Leaf, and Australian Gold Nugget.
Gold bars are ideal for IRAs, as they sell at smaller premiums than gold coins. Although the regulations that govern gold contributions to IRAs call for a minimum purity of only 0.995%, most gold bullion bars are 0.9999% pure.
Maybe the proof gold is so high due to the relative lower mintages compared to the bullion gold eagles. There are roughly ten times as many bullion each year as proof.
According to law, all gold bullion bars with a minimum pureness of 0.995% fineness and NYMEX- or COMEX- approved refiner/assayer hallmark can be added to an IRA, but only select gold bullion coins.
The United States government currently allows Gold American Eagles and Gold proof American Eagles in IRAs. Other gold coins allowed to be put into an IRA include the American Buffalo, Canadian Gold Maple Leaf, and Australian Gold Nugget.
Gold bars are ideal for IRAs, as they sell at smaller premiums than gold coins. Although the regulations that govern gold contributions to IRAs call for a minimum purity of only 0.995%, most gold bullion bars are 0.9999% pure.
Maybe the proof gold is so high due to the relative lower mintages compared to the bullion gold eagles. There are roughly ten times as many bullion each year as proof. >>
Something doesnt smell right but I guess it may just be tulip time, where can one offload besides Ebay for 2000/oz?
7/8 a lot of people must be getting suckered by their gold IRA's. I hope people are selling proof gold eagles into this run and buying 80% more gold in buffaloes or some other gold.
Haven't read the legislation lately, but currently only PROOF American Eagles have the huge premiums.....1 oz size for the Gold IRA's. >>
On Ebay the proof sets are also going at about 2000/oz at the moment so maybe the fractionals are also included in this . I have not been monitoring fractional proofs on Ebay
Turn your common proof $50 AGE's into 08-W Buff's or at worst - take back 1 1/2 the amount of gold for each proof 1 oz coin sold.
Wholesale buy is 2G per oz, almost unbelievable that someone would pay 3G/oz for a physical gold IRA.
Any physical gold must be in my hand!!!!!!!! No one else is going to hold it for me!!!!! Forget the tax advantage to the IRA, plus remember these are reported as collectibles, subject to 28% tax, not the capital gains rate
I believe proof platinum is just as permitted in the IRA's as proof gold. But, I am in the process of an in-depth analysis aimed at confirming certain facts in connection with the IRA's and the various factors affecting proof gold / proof platinum pricing, etc. DH asked me last week to write about modern coins for his Coinfacts and one of the first things I would like to do is address some of the interesting developments in the proof gold / proof platinum / misc. other IRA (and non-IRA) related products. Stay tuned.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I'm not sure that I understand why anyone would want physical gold in an IRA, since it can't be held in person, doesn't have interest or earnings to defer the taxes on, incurs custodial costs and in the end - any gains on the sale are taxed at the individual's marginal tax rate anyway, whether it's been held in an IRA or not. I used SLV in my IRA as a trading vehicle for awhile, and that worked pretty well, but physical gold couldn't be used the same way.
If someone can think of an advantage in having physical gold in a tax deferred retirement account, I'd like to hear it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I'm not sure that I understand why anyone would want physical gold in an IRA, since it can't be held in person, doesn't have interest or earnings to defer the taxes on, incurs custodial costs and in the end - any gains on the sale are taxed at the individual's marginal tax rate anyway, whether it's been held in an IRA or not. I used SLV in my IRA as a trading vehicle for awhile, and that worked pretty well, but physical gold couldn't be used the same way.
If someone can think of an advantage in having physical gold in a tax deferred retirement account, I'd like to hear it. >>
Especially at 3000/oz, it will take at least 6 months to break even
I wrote a chapter in the new moderns text about the opportunities and pitfalls of self directed IRAs and eagles with Bill Humphrey of Entrust New Direction. The bottom line for silver gold and platinum eagles in any MS or proof form is they are not considered numismatic in relation to the IRA regs and therefore can be included even at high mark ups over melt in your IRA.
IRA gold holders are buying the wrong material at key date prices because they dont know any better. Hope some of them read the chapter and spare themselves.
>>What is going to happen to value of those $2,000+ 1 oz. AGE proofs in early 2009 when US Mint starts striking 2010 proofs??<<
If the 2010-W proof mintage is limited, as in the past, it won't add that many to the total number of proof AGEs out there. I would expect a quick sellout, with maybe a temporary dip in secondary market prices, but I'm guessing that the 2010s would be quickly absorbed and prices would return to the "new normal."
>>For almost 23 years the premium on AGE proofs sold on secondary market has been 0-5% on average. I doubt this current 50%+ premium will persist.<<
If they're going into IRAs, as some have reported, then a large number of AGE proofs may be off the numismatic market indefinitely.
Since AGE proofs have never been considered a good "investment" until recently, most of the people who bought proof AGEs from the Mint year after year were probably upscale collectors purchasing the proofs for their own collections, rather than speculators looking for a quick flip. Thus there are not likely to be significant hoards coming on the market in the future to depress the price of the proofs.
In my opinion, restrained supply + continuing IRA demand = continued high prices.
>>With no fractionals to produce I expect the AGE 1 oz. proof to be at least 50K production next year and possibly unlimited.<<
News to me. I know they discontinued fractionals for the "W" uncirculated AGEs, but my understanding is that fractional proofs have not been officially discontinued.
Quick question regarding Gold ETFs...which alledgedly need to place an equal amount of bullion into a vault to match investor inflows into the fund...
Since this is a relatively new instrument in the bullion world, anyone think that the operation of ETFs may lead to the wholesale melting of US gold coins, without consideration of date or grade?
How much were the large volume dealers able to get the Buff proofs for? There is apparently some discount program.
The only reason to buy an '09 would seem to be if you want to own a complete set by date. I just bought one for that reason - probably a waste at current gold prices.
I also pass on both the 2009 Buffalo and Platinum Proofs. At some point the Fed must rise interest rates to more normal levels which will cause the gold price to crash. I have one savings account at Chase that's paying less then 1% (Chase took it over from WAMU). 50 years ago the S & Ls in California were paying 4%.
Rates at "normal levels" will fail to cap the gold price. Rates will have to be considerably higher than normal. What are the chances of that? Gold is going much, much higher IMO.
<<At some point the Fed must rise interest rates to more normal levels which will cause the gold price to crash. >>
However, from all indications, that point may not be until 2011 or even 2012. And as we've all seen, the entire world can change radically in a year or two (or three).
I suspect the date will be early 2013 AFTER the presidential election has been completed. Uncle O will not like fall out before the election so the artificial constraints will remain in place until after November 2012. Enjoy the ride until then
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Rates at "normal levels" will fail to cap the gold price. Rates will have to be considerably higher than normal. What are the chances of that? Gold is going much, much higher IMO. >>
I can remember receiving 14% on CDs back in 1980. I wouldn't rule any thing out with what's going on in DC.
<< <i>I also pass on both the 2009 Buffalo and Platinum Proofs. At some point the Fed must rise interest rates to more normal levels which will cause the gold price to crash. I have one savings account at Chase that's paying less then 1% (Chase took it over from WAMU). 50 years ago the S & Ls in California were paying 4%. >>
1% - WOW! I think that this is now known as a "High Yield" account, sad but true :-(
Guys, 2009 Proof Buffs were just repriced again to $1460 a pop. If you got in at $1360.00 you are doing ok, little down side at that price...Of course I expect a correction in the price...maybe, what does Eric think of these coins now if they were bought at 1360.00 ?
<<Too early to tell, if you need the money........sell it almost double your paid price (unless you bought it early in 2008) if you do not need the cash....hold it.>>
Oops...my fault. I meant to say that someone is offering to SELL IT TO ME for $2,200. And it just happens to be the only proof plat denomination that I missed during the Great Plat Rush of 2008!
Comments
According to law, all gold bullion bars with a minimum pureness of 0.995% fineness and NYMEX- or COMEX- approved refiner/assayer hallmark can be added to an IRA, but only select gold bullion coins.
The United States government currently allows Gold American Eagles and Gold proof American Eagles in IRAs. Other gold coins allowed to be put into an IRA include the American Buffalo, Canadian Gold Maple Leaf, and Australian Gold Nugget.
Gold bars are ideal for IRAs, as they sell at smaller premiums than gold coins. Although the regulations that govern gold contributions to IRAs call for a minimum purity of only 0.995%, most gold bullion bars are 0.9999% pure.
****************************************************************
Maybe the proof gold is so high due to the relative lower mintages compared to the bullion gold eagles. There are roughly ten times as many bullion each year as proof.
Haven't read the legislation lately, but currently only PROOF American Eagles have the huge premiums.....1 oz size for the Gold IRA's.
<< <i>What type of gold can be held in my IRA?
According to law, all gold bullion bars with a minimum pureness of 0.995% fineness and NYMEX- or COMEX- approved refiner/assayer hallmark can be added to an IRA, but only select gold bullion coins.
The United States government currently allows Gold American Eagles and Gold proof American Eagles in IRAs. Other gold coins allowed to be put into an IRA include the American Buffalo, Canadian Gold Maple Leaf, and Australian Gold Nugget.
Gold bars are ideal for IRAs, as they sell at smaller premiums than gold coins. Although the regulations that govern gold contributions to IRAs call for a minimum purity of only 0.995%, most gold bullion bars are 0.9999% pure.
****************************************************************
Maybe the proof gold is so high due to the relative lower mintages compared to the bullion gold eagles. There are roughly ten times as many bullion each year as proof. >>
Something doesnt smell right but I guess it may just be tulip time, where can one offload besides Ebay for 2000/oz?
<< <i>Half -
Haven't read the legislation lately, but currently only PROOF American Eagles have the huge premiums.....1 oz size for the Gold IRA's. >>
On Ebay the proof sets are also going at about 2000/oz at the moment so maybe the fractionals are also included in this . I have not been monitoring fractional proofs on Ebay
Turn your common proof $50 AGE's into 08-W Buff's or at worst - take back 1 1/2 the amount of gold for each proof 1 oz coin sold.
Wholesale buy is 2G per oz, almost unbelievable that someone would pay 3G/oz for a physical gold IRA.
Any physical gold must be in my hand!!!!!!!! No one else is going to hold it for me!!!!! Forget the tax advantage to the IRA, plus remember these are reported as collectibles, subject to 28% tax, not the capital gains rate
PS I agree 7/8 the gold IRA idea is nuts, if they worried that much they could buy gold stocks or the gold ETF even though that is also dubious.
Wondercoin
If someone can think of an advantage in having physical gold in a tax deferred retirement account, I'd like to hear it.
I knew it would happen.
I sense people are feeling that dollar is about to crash in value and they don't want anything based on value of dollar.
<< <i>I'm not sure that I understand why anyone would want physical gold in an IRA, since it can't be held in person, doesn't have interest or earnings to defer the taxes on, incurs custodial costs and in the end - any gains on the sale are taxed at the individual's marginal tax rate anyway, whether it's been held in an IRA or not. I used SLV in my IRA as a trading vehicle for awhile, and that worked pretty well, but physical gold couldn't be used the same way.
If someone can think of an advantage in having physical gold in a tax deferred retirement account, I'd like to hear it. >>
Especially at 3000/oz, it will take at least 6 months to break even
<< <i>I was finally able to get my 1/10 oz 06-W platinum coin today at the coin show.....
Happy Happy
Absolutely amazing what proof gold eagles are selling for right now..... >>
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Thats all the tenth plats in MS and proof by type for you right?
IRA gold holders are buying the wrong material at key date prices because they dont know any better. Hope some of them read the chapter and spare themselves.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was finally able to get my 1/10 oz 06-W platinum coin today at the coin show.....
Happy Happy
Absolutely amazing what proof gold eagles are selling for right now..... >>
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Thats all the tenth plats in MS and proof by type for you right? >>
I have the burnished 1/10 oz coins complete and the 01 to 08 proof 1/10 coins..... looking for the earlier ones.....
Working on the 1/10 oz bullion coins, but not there yet.....
I see the proof coins are a truely nice value going forth.....
Proof platinum coins of all sizes right now are a great buy I think.....
If the 2010-W proof mintage is limited, as in the past, it won't add that many to the total number of proof AGEs out there. I would expect a quick sellout, with maybe a temporary dip in secondary market prices, but I'm guessing that the 2010s would be quickly absorbed and prices would return to the "new normal."
No guarantees, of course.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Sell now and rebuy next year.....
I doubt this current 50%+ premium will persist.
If they're going into IRAs, as some have reported, then a large number of AGE proofs may be off the numismatic market indefinitely.
Since AGE proofs have never been considered a good "investment" until recently, most of the people who bought proof AGEs from the Mint year after year were probably upscale collectors purchasing the proofs for their own collections, rather than speculators looking for a quick flip. Thus there are not likely to be significant hoards coming on the market in the future to depress the price of the proofs.
In my opinion, restrained supply + continuing IRA demand = continued high prices.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
With no fractionals to produce I expect the AGE 1 oz. proof to be at least 50K production next year and possibly unlimited.
2G per oz/wholesale, take the money and buy something else, or if you just want to hold gold, take back 1 1/2 oz for every oz you sell!!!!
<< <i>take the money and buy something else, or if you just want to hold gold, take back 1 1/2 oz for every oz you sell!!!! >>
That's what I did, although not quite as rich. I'm happy
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I sold most at $1600 but I'll sell the rest in next week.
I'll just buy more 2008 buffalos and platinum I guess.......................................................
News to me. I know they discontinued fractionals for the "W" uncirculated AGEs, but my understanding is that fractional proofs have not been officially discontinued.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Since this is a relatively new instrument in the bullion world, anyone think that the operation of ETFs may lead to the wholesale melting of US gold coins, without consideration of date or grade?
Thoughts?
You don't melt a $1300 saint to get $1150 in gold.
<<You don't melt a $1300 saint to get $1150 in gold. >>
True...but for the more modern stuff...the gap in the numismatic value vs metal content is closing.
Anyone think he has a chance of getting them to reverse the decision??
True...but for the more modern stuff...the gap in the numismatic value vs metal content is closing.<<
Earlier it was reported that thousands of First Spouse and modern commem gold coins have already been set to the melting pot.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
IMO we are likely seeing significant melting of common gold commemoratives and some worn older 'classic' coins.
40,000 has a nice round ring to it. think we can make it? 4700 to go
$50 proof buff for 2009.
Same old comment....hope you kept some 2008s
The only reason to buy an '09 would seem to be if you want to own a complete set by date. I just bought one for that reason - probably a waste at current gold prices.
However, from all indications, that point may not be until 2011 or even 2012. And as we've all seen, the entire world can change radically in a year or two (or three).
<< <i>Rates at "normal levels" will fail to cap the gold price. Rates will have to be considerably higher than normal. What are the chances of that? Gold is going much, much higher IMO. >>
I can remember receiving 14% on CDs back in 1980. I wouldn't rule any thing out with what's going on in DC.
$200 over current $1170 spot = $1370.
I am not worried one bit, especially with the strength in gold and the state of the dollar.
<< <i>I also pass on both the 2009 Buffalo and Platinum Proofs. At some point the Fed must rise interest rates to more normal levels which will cause the gold price to crash. I have one savings account at Chase that's paying less then 1% (Chase took it over from WAMU). 50 years ago the S & Ls in California were paying 4%. >>
1% - WOW! I think that this is now known as a "High Yield" account, sad but true :-(
Thanks
I have thick skin so let me have it
4-coin sets went up almost doubled
1/2 oz proof buff dropped more than 50%
1/4 oz proof buff dropped more than 75%
SNMAN
Thoughts?
BTW...Happy Turkey Day to Everyone!
<< <i>I'm being offered a 2008 Proof 69 (NGC) $100 plat eagle for $2,200. I'm not seeing much downside at that price...should I bite?
Thoughts?
BTW...Happy Turkey Day to Everyone! >>
Too early to tell, if you need the money........sell it almost double your paid price (unless you bought it early in 2008)
if you do not need the cash....hold it.
JMHO.
snman
Oops...my fault. I meant to say that someone is offering to SELL IT TO ME for $2,200. And it just happens to be the only proof plat denomination that I missed during the Great Plat Rush of 2008!