Does anyone else think this set is harder to put together than last years? I ask because after 8 boxes I am still 6 cards short of a base set and a lot farther than that from a master.
Doran, I think the reason you're still short on base is because the 110 black backs have taken up some of their green counterparts spots. What I mean is if 100,000 of each base card #415 is produced (just using a round number), then I think they split that 100,000 between the green and black (not sure at what percentage though). I dont think they made the 100,000 green 415's and then added more black 415 to that. Thats just my opinion, and im sorting my base into a spreadsheet to see if the numbers show anything
Can someone send me Paul's spreadsheet? I got it from him but the extension was wrong. I'm at magellun@localnet.com
Thanks, Dave >>
He probably sent you two versions, one was a newer version and probably the extension you are not able to open, and one was the older .xls version. If you can't find it, I can send it to you.
My 400's are now sorted, and most of the players i have 8, 9, and 10 of, but I only have 4 of card number 415 and he is the only card in the 400's with a black back variation. On a related note, I have 3 of his cards in black back variation.
To all of you who asked for my checklist, which is sorey out-dated because of all the changes in the set. I've updated it and made several changes. The first page is art of some of the unique cards. The second page is a place to track your spending, selling and trades. Then the usually pages for all the subsets.
I sent both the older and new version of EXCEL and you can download the one that suits you. Have fun.
If the black back cards are 'hobby only' releases, then their corresponding green number would be available in some hobby packs and all retail packs. That would probably put them about as scarce as the whitebacks in 2005, wouldn't it?
Nam - you'll see that the pattern will continue for all the greens w/ corresponding blacks. I think that what you said earlier is correct - Topps split the production b/w green and black for any player w/ both. I think that the actual base set this yr is 315 cards. Then 115 semi-SPs (GBs that have a BB variation). Then the 75 actual SPs, and finally the 115 BBs. Master set is 655. Or 658 - not sure about the three variations, but they look to be the hardest to pull (from the board member's comments and my experience - didn't pull one of the three in a case).
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon.
On the three variations, I am not too sure about the Wright card. It is numbered HDP#6 and I have only seen one on EBay which did not sell and was relisted. My thoughts are that because it is numbered HDP#6 then there are probably 10, 15, or 20 in this insert set and that this card was pulled from a retail box. If so, we will be seeing a bunch of these once retail is widely available. I have seen a few Perez regular Topps cards, were these retail only? Anyone have any thoughts on this???
Craig in Texas
<< <i>Nam - you'll see that the pattern will continue for all the greens w/ corresponding blacks. I think that what you said earlier is correct - Topps split the production b/w green and black for any player w/ both. I think that the actual base set this yr is 315 cards. Then 115 semi-SPs (GBs that have a BB variation). Then the 75 actual SPs, and finally the 115 BBs. Master set is 655. Or 658 - not sure about the three variations, but they look to be the hardest to pull (from the board member's comments and my experience - didn't pull one of the three in a case).
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon. >>
<< <i>Doran, I think the reason you're still short on base is because the 110 black backs have taken up some of their green counterparts spots. What I mean is if 100,000 of each base card #415 is produced (just using a round number), then I think they split that 100,000 between the green and black (not sure at what percentage though). I dont think they made the 100,000 green 415's and then added more black 415 to that. Thats just my opinion, and im sorting my base into a spreadsheet to see if the numbers show anything >>
FWIW, some people on Ebay are listing the green back versions of the black back cards as SPs also. Maybe they are less common than the regular green back cards, but more common than SPs. Maybe they are like a mini-SP card.
Brother Parker (fyi to those reading, we really aren't related), great pull on the cubbie. Loving the smoltz pull, zep. Wish i had one, 16 boxes and none of those three tough variations.
I realize I haven't summarized my 16 boxes. Here are the tallys:
128 sp's (only missing 2: 463, 494 ) 3 auto (yogi blue ink, 1 black ( delgado) 15 refractors (smoltz, dice-k, prince, ichiro were the notables) 50 chrome (49 unique including jeter, a-rod, pujols, ichiro, ellsbury - 1 extra a-rod ) 1 fb seat relic: banks 3 CC bat relics: andruw jones, posada ,abreu 9 CC jersey relics: Crawford edmonds, pedro, berkman (x2), dunn, smoltz, blalock, zimmerman 29 nap including complete subset 26 tn including complete subset 31 fb including complete subset 29 news including complete subset 9 buybacks 16 panels
<< <i>Nam - you'll see that the pattern will continue for all the greens w/ corresponding blacks. I think that what you said earlier is correct - Topps split the production b/w green and black for any player w/ both. I think that the actual base set this yr is 315 cards. Then 115 semi-SPs (GBs that have a BB variation). Then the 75 actual SPs, and finally the 115 BBs. Master set is 655. Or 658 - not sure about the three variations, but they look to be the hardest to pull (from the board member's comments and my experience - didn't pull one of the three in a case).
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon. >>
I agree with everything you said, but there are 100 black backs instead of 115, right?
I have done significant mathmatical analysis on the pack rate and the print rate of sp's and greens.
In short, in prior years the sp to base card print ratio has always been 4 to one - exactly - the math works perfectly: 385 base cards to 110 sp's =3.5 to 1...pack insertion rate is 14 base per each sp. When the base cards were 350 (2002,2003) the sp's were 100 - still the perfect 3.5 to 1 ratio that would be yielded by a 4 to 1 base to sp print rate (4 * 3.5 = 14). I can explain better later.
This year there is no perfect magic number of print rate that yields the right rations. 25 base per 7 sp's is the closest.
I have been sorting most of the morning and in the 300's and 400's I have about 8 to 10 of every given base card so far that does not have a black counterpart. I only have 2 green #370, 3 green #371, and only 3 green #372. Those 3 cards have black back counterparts. As far as the black back side of those 3 cards I got 5 of each. Could blacks be more plentiful?
That is very interesting on the blacks. Mine are sorted and I'm missing one (#45). I had just one copy of 8-10 others. Of the rest about 1/2 had 2 and the remainder 3-4. This is from a hobby case. My base cards aren't sorted yet.
It may have been mentioned here already today, but it bears repeating. The green backs are being touted on eBay now as semi SPs, and a "base set" is only 315 cards, with 425 card sets having the 110 "semi SP" green backs included. The 425's are getting between $50 and $100 each, and I sold both of mine for $39.95 At least one went to Knopfler. Can't get mad at people when they are sharper than you at doing their homework. As a wise man once said, if you're not first, you're last.
I'm still wondering once the retail packs hit the streets, the blacks will become scarce compared to the greens. So if a base set is 315 +110 green backs + 110 blackbacks+75 SPs, this yields 610 for a 'complete' set (minus inserts). With the black v. green scarcity, I don't think I did too bad grabbing a complete (green) base set with the black set from eBay on Saturday.
Oops! I thought they were the blaster boxes but you are right. I think his description is that of a regular Topps box so I was already thrown off track. Either way, that guy may know since this is the first I have seen of the retail.
Great info guys, the perez retail only cards makes perfect sense. There have been walmart and target exclusive cards for several years now. That would expalin the numbering and why we haven't a whole lot. Has anyone here pulled a Wright out of hobby? I anticipate seeing retail at target late next week. I don't see why the black backs would be hobby only, that doesn't make sense, topps has never tried to help dealers sell hobby, the pull odds and cards have always been about the same.
Kevin, Not that it's Heritage, but Topps has been putting hobby only cards in the 'regular' sets in both 2007 (red backs) and 2008 (golf front logo), so maybe they decided to try it with Heritage as well. It was just something I thought I had read, but maybe I dreamed it.
Variation or not, I think that Santana is a really great looking card - the fact that it is a variation makes it even better. If you believe some of the pundits, the picture of him in a Mets hat may become a terror to the rest of the NL too...
Data is coming in slow, I haven't been on ebay in a day so there is probably some more info there. So far I have about 4 strings of players 10-14 long. There might not be connectors, I don't know if a card is always on the side of a sheet or not.
So far from what I have seen the only stars that are on panels are Arod and Dice K. When I have time I would like to compare the panel cards with what numbers they are in the set and see if there is a releation. If you have time to list your panel from left to right that would help.
Ok, I know this has been beaten to death, but here is another confrimation on the Black back/green back distribution. I opened one case plus one box 13 boxes in all. I built the first master set with six sp's short and with a separate run of all 110 black backs I built the second master set with two base and 42 sp's and 12 inserts short and a second separate run of almost all missing only five black backs. I built a third base green back only set and I am missing 58 green back base cards 53 of which have corresponding black back cards Of the black back dups remaining after two black back only sets there are dups of 48 of the 53 missing green back cards for set three. For the fourth green back base only set I have only thirteen of the green back cards which have corresponding black back cards. My conclusion verifies that the black backs have created semi-shortage of green back base cards. I did notice that a few black back cards did appear to have a green tinge to the black as if the black ink was too thinly overprinted onto the green ink... my two cents... Regards, Charlie G
Kevin, Go back a page or 3 where I listed my panels....one has Chipper & Andruw along with Fence Busters which had Aaron & Mathews in the original '59 set I believe.
Thanks Dave, that is good info..funny that A Jones was traded uh oh..
I need some confomation.....Is there only one Gomez? Im looking to see if the Gomez to the left of the Sosa in the panel is the same as the Gomez to the right of Jack Wilson. I believe his first name is Carlos. Is this one player or two?
Comments
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
My Registry Sets
Black refractor: Lyle Overbay
Refractor: Chase Utley
Chrome: Chase Utley Adam Laroche
Relic: Roy Oswalt
Can someone send me Paul's spreadsheet? I got it from him but the extension was wrong. I'm at magellun@localnet.com
Thanks,
Dave
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
<< <i>Nice on the Black refractor !
Can someone send me Paul's spreadsheet? I got it from him but the extension was wrong. I'm at magellun@localnet.com
Thanks,
Dave >>
He probably sent you two versions, one was a newer version and probably the extension you are not able to open, and one was the older .xls version. If you can't find it, I can send it to you.
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
I sent both the older and new version of EXCEL and you can download the one that suits you. Have fun.
Paul
the extension on mine was .xlsx, my Works wouldn't open it, is that a valid extension for the new Excel?
Dave
I just sorted black backs, have 3-4 of 415. I haven't sorted base cards yet.
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
Please send me a copy -- parker95@cableone.net. Thank you!
Craig in Texas
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Craig in Texas
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon.
Craig in Texas
<< <i>Looks fine, Craig. Nice pull! >>
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Craig in Texas
<< <i>Nam - you'll see that the pattern will continue for all the greens w/ corresponding blacks. I think that what you said earlier is correct - Topps split the production b/w green and black for any player w/ both. I think that the actual base set this yr is 315 cards. Then 115 semi-SPs (GBs that have a BB variation). Then the 75 actual SPs, and finally the 115 BBs. Master set is 655. Or 658 - not sure about the three variations, but they look to be the hardest to pull (from the board member's comments and my experience - didn't pull one of the three in a case).
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon. >>
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
<< <i>Doran, I think the reason you're still short on base is because the 110 black backs have taken up some of their green counterparts spots. What I mean is if 100,000 of each base card #415 is produced (just using a round number), then I think they split that 100,000 between the green and black (not sure at what percentage though). I dont think they made the 100,000 green 415's and then added more black 415 to that. Thats just my opinion, and im sorting my base into a spreadsheet to see if the numbers show anything >>
FWIW, some people on Ebay are listing the green back versions of the black back cards as SPs also. Maybe they are less common than the regular green back cards, but more common than SPs. Maybe they are like a mini-SP card.
I realize I haven't summarized my 16 boxes. Here are the tallys:
128 sp's (only missing 2: 463, 494 )
3 auto (yogi blue ink,
1 black ( delgado)
15 refractors (smoltz, dice-k, prince, ichiro were the notables)
50 chrome (49 unique including jeter, a-rod, pujols, ichiro, ellsbury - 1 extra a-rod )
1 fb seat relic: banks
3 CC bat relics: andruw jones, posada ,abreu
9 CC jersey relics: Crawford edmonds, pedro, berkman (x2), dunn, smoltz, blalock, zimmerman
29 nap including complete subset
26 tn including complete subset
31 fb including complete subset
29 news including complete subset
9 buybacks
16 panels
Topps Heritage - Trade Page
<< <i>Nam - you'll see that the pattern will continue for all the greens w/ corresponding blacks. I think that what you said earlier is correct - Topps split the production b/w green and black for any player w/ both. I think that the actual base set this yr is 315 cards. Then 115 semi-SPs (GBs that have a BB variation). Then the 75 actual SPs, and finally the 115 BBs. Master set is 655. Or 658 - not sure about the three variations, but they look to be the hardest to pull (from the board member's comments and my experience - didn't pull one of the three in a case).
I think that some set sellers aren't factoring this in as eBay total sales prices aren't too different for the easy 315 set versus the much harder 425 set. I have a feeling that the 425 set will begin to pull away from the 315 in price soon. >>
I agree with everything you said, but there are 100 black backs instead of 115, right?
315 +110 + 75 + 110 + 10 + 10 + 15 + 10 = 655.
In short, in prior years the sp to base card print ratio has always been 4 to one - exactly - the math works perfectly: 385 base cards to 110 sp's =3.5 to 1...pack insertion rate is 14 base per each sp. When the base cards were 350 (2002,2003) the sp's were 100 - still the perfect 3.5 to 1 ratio that would be yielded by a 4 to 1 base to sp print rate (4 * 3.5 = 14). I can explain better later.
This year there is no perfect magic number of print rate that yields the right rations. 25 base per 7 sp's is the closest.
Topps Heritage - Trade Page
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
<< <i>As a wise man once said, if you're not first, you're last. >>
To quote the late, great Colonel Sanders, "I'm to drunk to taste this chicken."
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i> I'm still wondering once the retail packs hit the streets, the blacks will become scarce compared to the greens. >>
Why, are the blacks not going to be in retail packs?
2008 Topps Heritage Retail Box
Craig in Texas
<< <i>
<< <i> I'm still wondering once the retail packs hit the streets, the blacks will become scarce compared to the greens. >>
Why, are the blacks not going to be in retail packs? >>
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Craig in Texas
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
Craig in Texas
<< <i>That says 10 cards per pack for retail, is that correct? >>
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Nam, I thought I had read somewhere that the black backs were hobby only. I might be mistaken on that, though.
now. That would expalin the numbering and why we haven't a whole lot. Has anyone here pulled a Wright out of hobby? I anticipate
seeing retail at target late next week. I don't see why the black backs would be hobby only, that doesn't make sense, topps has never
tried to help dealers sell hobby, the pull odds and cards have always been about the same.
Keep up the great work!
Kevin
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
<< <i>If you believe some of the pundits, the picture of him in a Mets hat may become a terror to the rest of the NL too... >>
I'm glad he's out of the AL Central, that's for sure!
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
<< <i>
<< <i>If you believe some of the pundits, the picture of him in a Mets hat may become a terror to the rest of the NL too... >>
I'm glad he's out of the AL Central, that's for sure! >>
Agreed. Go Tigers!
2008 Topps Heritage Checklist
Craig in Texas
MY TOPPS BLOG -- CHECK IT OUT!!!
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
box 9 got me some ink but no relic
My Registry Sets
strings of players 10-14 long. There might not be connectors, I don't know if a card is always on the side of a sheet or not.
So far from what I have seen the only stars that are on panels are Arod and Dice K. When I have time I would like to compare
the panel cards with what numbers they are in the set and see if there is a releation. If you have time to list your panel
from left to right that would help.
Thanks
Kevin
I opened one case plus one box 13 boxes in all.
I built the first master set with six sp's short and with a separate run of all 110 black backs
I built the second master set with two base and 42 sp's and 12 inserts short and a second separate run of almost all missing only five black backs.
I built a third base green back only set and I am missing 58 green back base cards 53 of which have corresponding black back cards
Of the black back dups remaining after two black back only sets there are dups of 48 of the 53 missing green back cards for set three.
For the fourth green back base only set I have only thirteen of the green back cards which have corresponding black back cards.
My conclusion verifies that the black backs have created semi-shortage of green back base cards.
I did notice that a few black back cards did appear to have a green tinge to the black as if the black ink was too thinly overprinted onto the green ink...
my two cents...
Regards,
Charlie G
Go back a page or 3 where I listed my panels....one has Chipper & Andruw along with Fence Busters which had Aaron & Mathews in the original '59 set I believe.
Dave
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
I need some confomation.....Is there only one Gomez? Im looking to see if the Gomez to the left of the Sosa in the panel is the same
as the Gomez to the right of Jack Wilson. I believe his first name is Carlos. Is this one player or two?
Thanks
Kevin