A while back I looked at a bunch of common date PCGS First Strike MS69 ASEs and most of them were selling for below individual purchase price + slabbing fees. Certainly, not every TPG modern will be a winner.
As for there being 100s of these, that hasn't stopped other moderns from attaining lofty prices.
<< <i>The NGC encapsulated covers are doing quite well. Man, is PCGS missing the boat on these. >>
While the individual issues are selling for substantially more than PCGS FDIs, that's not the whole story. NGC slabs more 70s so individual NGC 70s sell for less than individual PCGS 70s, but from an overall company perspective, NGC probably makes more money slabbing ultra-moderns.
If individual PCGS FDIs are selling for less than NGC FDMs, PCGS could still be making more money overall when it comes to the bottom line on their income statement, which may be the more important number for a public company. >>
Here is my take on this:
I think that First Day of Mintage will end up being more valuable to collectors than First Day of Issue. As that becomes more and more clear, less people will want the First Day of Issue. This will result in less First Day of Issue submissions because people will not pay enough for them to cover the grading fees. If people have the choice between the two, and they do have a choice thanks to the Mint, they will take First Day of Mintage. PCGS may gain in the short term by catering to their bulk sumbitters who sumbit thousands of coins to be graded First Day of Issue, but in the long term they will lose out because those submissions will dry up. Meanwhile, by not offering First Day of Mintage, they are sending their customers across the street.
<< <i>maybe i was misunderstood, the (10) i just sold were raw from the mint...........14.95 each............no slab..raw >>
I don't believe they were talking about your comment. There is a seperate discussion withing this thread, regarding the slabbed NGC G.W. FDCC's...... Again u did good.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I opened one up and have decided I'm actually going to collect these things. I hope they come out with a folder that will hold these. I'm going to start one for myself and another one for my son. These are actually pretty cool.
<< <i>I see one by it now for 49.99 on a MS65 graded NGC encased cover in soft plastic.
I dont see how the seller is making any money.
$14.95 cover cost + $25.00 grading fee + $4 reasonable postage both ways + $6 EBAY list and selling fees = $ 49.95.......not to mention PAYPAL fees
net = $0. >>
Most eBay sellers are bankrupt and sweeping floors in 6 months, and this is why. "Doh, I gave ebay a shot and I didn't make enough to stay afloat, doh" Most need a business degree to be hired by a business to conduct business. On eBay, many of these people are dropouts that can't manage a check book much less a business. They couldn't figure out what their fees are, all they see are $$ signs dancing in their heads. That is until the wife pulls the plug, and rightly so.
There is only 16hrs left on the auction. Ebay is pretty slow. Otherwise you could report the auction to ebay, maybe give them the link to the post here and Ebay will look into it and probably cancel the auction.
It's against the rules to use other peoples pictures.
<< <i> Some pictures I took and posted on this thread are being used in someone else's Ebay Auction. Should I get a percentage or something? >>
In fact, Blue Space Ant is correct that I should have at least asked his/her permission before using the pictures. Of course, anything posted in a public forum, without copyright protection or claims thereof, is open for use by all. However, it would have been common courtesy to ask first. That's my mistake, and I won't repeat it. Thanks for pointing it out.
<< <i> In fact, Blue Space Ant is correct that I should have at least asked his/her permission before using the pictures. Of course, anything posted in a public forum, without copyright protection or claims thereof, is open for use by all. >>
Absolutely wrong!
---- Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following:
To display the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work; ----
bluespaceant's work was protected as soon as he created it. He retains the rights to the works.
<< <i>Why do people with many boxes, show a picture of ALL their boxes. >>
<< <i>hat to me is a turn off. Why would I pay a premium to you when you have 10 boxes. How can these be 'rare' when your showing 10 boxes !??!? >>
<< <i>Some people just don't get sales I guess. >>
With I due respect, I do GET sales. In fact, I am VP of Sales for.....never mind....
Anyway, here's my reasoning for showing the 10 boxes. First, I knew I wouldn't be the only one with 50 packs for sale; I figured there would be several. So it wasn't an issue as to trying to create a sense of rarity (with the picture). In fact, it was a need to set my self apart, to differentiate myself from the rest of the sellers. Although there are multiple sellers of the 50 pack, several with more than one 50-pack available, they were ALL showing either a picture of a single box or an icon that looks like the other 100 for sale.
Sales 101...stand out from the pack...GET NOTICED!
Granted, had this been an offering for an item not readily available elsewhere, and I had the only supply, it would be asinine to disclose the size of my position available for purchase.
<< <i>Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right........ >>
My point EXACTLY! It was not copyrighted, and no claims to it being copyrighted was made. Therefore the 1976 Copyright Act does NOT apply!
But, I should have asked first, just as common courtesy.
FloridaBill >>
Actually, for a while now you don't have to do anything specific to obtain a copyright because as long as it is novel or original, created by a human, and meets the other requirements of copyrightable subject matter, the copyright vests in the author as soon as the work is fixed (in this case when the picture was taken). Further, no claim need be made for the copyright act to apply. However in order to sue, you do have to register the copyright.
So basically, the pictures are copyrighted, and the copyright act does apply, however the author can not sue at this point. Further, since the pictures were used through deep linking and not actually coppied, it is not clear that the author's rights were in fact infringed up.
-Fuzz
Why is it, "A penny for your thoughts," but, "you have to put your two cents in?" Somebody's making a penny.
Anyone care to guess how many of the covers were returned to the mint?
Also do you think there will be enough returns to open sales or will they all go to the people on the waiting list?
Looks like the big bulk ebay sellers (boxes of 50) have stopped their offerings.
Just for the record I'm not trying to start a debate as to whether these are collectable or not, I own several hundred of them and plan to keep them for awhile, I'm just curious as to what you guys think about about potential for returns since so many board members took such large positions.
I beleive that once the dust settles these are going to be a $40-50 set. I have no intention to return my sets.
I just sold 5 sets that were graded by NGC on Ebay. First let me say my cost to have the sets graded worked out to around $15 a set including shipping, not the $25 listed before.
set 1 ms64/ms65 did not sell set 2 ms65/ms65 $47.00 set 3 ms65/ms65 $48.00 set4 ms65/ms66 $46.99 set 5 MS66/ms66 $292.00
My cost around $200 Gross income $433.99 of couse Ebay and Paypal fees have yet to be paid, and I still have one set.
Over all, I think it was a good deal.
Mercury
OK, I goofed....My cost was $25 a set to get them graded. However, the figure on my cost is correct, around $40 per set. I guess my memory is not as good as it once was.
Getting "noticed" is not the same as trashing the market. These covers were comfortably moving above $25 per raw when the 10 box lot appeared on ebay well under the current market.
Not only did that temporarily "stun" the market, it gave the buyer the perception that there were so many of these to be had.....that prices will fall.
I understand that anyone can price how they please, but these quantities being made available all at once is going to take this market and turn it upside down. There are far deeper pockets than ours in this game now, and careful attention has to be paid when buying solely to flip.....some of those well deserved profits from last years mega products may be erased in the process.
take the 40-50% profit that has been locked in by several sellers trying to flip well below market, that have limited the upside by showing 100's or 1000's for sale in pics, and move on.
once some of these sellers realize what has happened to the cover market, it will be too late and the market too illiquid to exit.
Why on earth are people bidding close to $50 when plenty of sellers are still offering these -- still sealed -- for about $25? >>
I was looking at this sellers auctions yesterday, for some reason this particular seller seems to be getting strong prices on all their Washington Cover Auctions.
Why on earth are people bidding close to $50 when plenty of sellers are still offering these -- still sealed -- for about $25? >>
I asked this before on multiple product listings and the responses were the buyers either weren't good at searching or the sellers were possibly added to their favorite seller list, still makes little to no sense to me???
Comments
I dont see how the seller is making any money.
$14.95 cover cost + $25.00 grading fee + $4 reasonable postage both ways + $6 EBAY list and selling fees = $ 49.95.......not to mention PAYPAL fees
net = $0.
Perhaps MS65s are financial break-evens/losers, the same way many NCLT 69s are break-evens/losers?
lets face it, in a week, there will be 100's online in those holders
A while back I looked at a bunch of common date PCGS First Strike MS69 ASEs and most of them were selling for below individual purchase price + slabbing fees. Certainly, not every TPG modern will be a winner.
As for there being 100s of these, that hasn't stopped other moderns from attaining lofty prices.
<< <i>
<< <i>The NGC encapsulated covers are doing quite well. Man, is PCGS missing the boat on these. >>
While the individual issues are selling for substantially more than PCGS FDIs, that's not the whole story. NGC slabs more 70s so individual NGC 70s sell for less than individual PCGS 70s, but from an overall company perspective, NGC probably makes more money slabbing ultra-moderns.
If individual PCGS FDIs are selling for less than NGC FDMs, PCGS could still be making more money overall when it comes to the bottom line on their income statement, which may be the more important number for a public company. >>
Here is my take on this:
I think that First Day of Mintage will end up being more valuable to collectors than First Day of Issue. As that becomes more and more clear, less people will want the First Day of Issue. This will result in less First Day of Issue submissions because people will not pay enough for them to cover the grading fees. If people have the choice between the two, and they do have a choice thanks to the Mint, they will take First Day of Mintage. PCGS may gain in the short term by catering to their bulk sumbitters who sumbit thousands of coins to be graded First Day of Issue, but in the long term they will lose out because those submissions will dry up. Meanwhile, by not offering First Day of Mintage, they are sending their customers across the street.
<< <i>i put (10) up on ebay the other day, closed today..........i'm happy.....http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=280111392822&rd=1&rd=1 >>
Yup...ya sure did...@ $25+ per set....not a bad return. Congrats...
<< <i>maybe i was misunderstood, the (10) i just sold were raw from the mint...........14.95 each............no slab..raw >>
I don't believe they were talking about your comment. There is a seperate discussion withing this thread, regarding the slabbed NGC G.W. FDCC's...... Again u did good.
<< <i>how about one of you guys puts up 1/2 mil and buy the rest of them today? That would be sweet! >>
Where do you order them? I don't see the availability date at the mint for these.
Why do people with many boxes, show a picture of ALL their boxes.
That to me is a turn off. Why would I pay a premium to you when you have 10 boxes. How can these be 'rare' when your showing 10 boxes !??!?
Some people just don't get sales I guess.
It shows who has a big part of only 50,000 Covers.
You know, who owns the hoard as opposed to who does not.
While I don't own 1,000+, I own enough I can stack them.
Hasn't hurt me at all.
<< <i>I see one by it now for 49.99 on a MS65 graded NGC encased cover in soft plastic.
I dont see how the seller is making any money.
$14.95 cover cost + $25.00 grading fee + $4 reasonable postage both ways + $6 EBAY list and selling fees = $ 49.95.......not to mention PAYPAL fees
net = $0. >>
Most eBay sellers are bankrupt and sweeping floors in 6 months, and this is why. "Doh, I gave ebay a shot and I didn't make enough to stay afloat, doh" Most need a business degree to be hired by a business to conduct business. On eBay, many of these people are dropouts that can't manage a check book much less a business. They couldn't figure out what their fees are, all they see are $$ signs dancing in their heads. That is until the wife pulls the plug, and rightly so.
Page 26
Auction
<< <i>Some pictures I took and posted on this thread are being used in someone else's Ebay Auction. Should I get a percentage or something?
Page 26
Auction >>
Is that FLBill's auction?
<< <i>Some pictures I took and posted on this thread are being used in someone else's Ebay Auction. Should I get a percentage or something?
Page 26
Auction >>
There is only 16hrs left on the auction. Ebay is pretty slow. Otherwise you could report the auction to ebay, maybe give them the link to the post here and Ebay will look into it and probably cancel the auction.
It's against the rules to use other peoples pictures.
<< <i>I see it as more of a compliment, those are some nice pics, but I don't see it as a reason to cancel an auction.... >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I see it as more of a compliment, those are some nice pics, but I don't see it as a reason to cancel an auction.... >>
That's cool. I was just stating what someone could do.
<< <i>Why do people with many boxes, show a picture of ALL their boxes
It shows who has a big part of only 50,000 Covers.
You know, who owns the hoard as opposed to who does not.
While I don't own 1,000+, I own enough I can stack them.
Hasn't hurt me at all. >>
I guess it wouldn't hurt, but who knows.
As for showing who owns the hoard, what's up with that ????
<< <i> Some pictures I took and posted on this thread are being used in someone else's Ebay Auction. Should I get a percentage or something? >>
In fact, Blue Space Ant is correct that I should have at least asked his/her permission before using the pictures. Of course, anything posted in a public forum, without copyright protection or claims thereof, is open for use by all. However, it would have been common courtesy to ask first. That's my mistake, and I won't repeat it. Thanks for pointing it out.
FloridaBill
<< <i>
In fact, Blue Space Ant is correct that I should have at least asked his/her permission before using the pictures. Of course, anything posted in a public forum, without copyright protection or claims thereof, is open for use by all. >>
Absolutely wrong!
----
Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following:
To display the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work;
----
bluespaceant's work was protected as soon as he created it. He retains the rights to the works.
Just sayin'... it's cool that said sorry though.
It really deserves it!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Why do people with many boxes, show a picture of ALL their boxes. >>
<< <i>hat to me is a turn off. Why would I pay a premium to you when you have 10 boxes. How can these be 'rare' when your showing 10 boxes !??!? >>
<< <i>Some people just don't get sales I guess. >>
With I due respect, I do GET sales. In fact, I am VP of Sales for.....never mind....
Anyway, here's my reasoning for showing the 10 boxes. First, I knew I wouldn't be the only one with 50 packs for sale; I figured there would be several. So it wasn't an issue as to trying to create a sense of rarity (with the picture). In fact, it was a need to set my self apart, to differentiate myself from the rest of the sellers. Although there are multiple sellers of the 50 pack, several with more than one 50-pack available, they were ALL showing either a picture of a single box or an icon that looks like the other 100 for sale.
Sales 101...stand out from the pack...GET NOTICED!
Granted, had this been an offering for an item not readily available elsewhere, and I had the only supply, it would be asinine to disclose the size of my position available for purchase.
FloridaBill
<< <i>Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right........ >>
My point EXACTLY! It was not copyrighted, and no claims to it being copyrighted was made. Therefore the 1976 Copyright Act does NOT apply!
But, I should have asked first, just as common courtesy.
FloridaBill
Aren't we right around the time that people who want to return Washington Cover orders to the mint have to do so?
I still think these are going to do pretty good over time.
NGC FDM P-MS65 D-MS64: $75.00
NGC FDM P-MS65 D-MS65: $91.65
NGC FDM P-MS65 D-MS66: $177.50
NGC FDM P-MS66 D-MS66: $227.50
<< <i>
<< <i>Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right........ >>
My point EXACTLY! It was not copyrighted, and no claims to it being copyrighted was made. Therefore the 1976 Copyright Act does NOT apply!
But, I should have asked first, just as common courtesy.
FloridaBill >>
Actually, for a while now you don't have to do anything specific to obtain a copyright because as long as it is novel or original, created by a human, and meets the other requirements of copyrightable subject matter, the copyright vests in the author as soon as the work is fixed (in this case when the picture was taken). Further, no claim need be made for the copyright act to apply. However in order to sue, you do have to register the copyright.
So basically, the pictures are copyrighted, and the copyright act does apply, however the author can not sue at this point. Further, since the pictures were used through deep linking and not actually coppied, it is not clear that the author's rights were in fact infringed up.
-Fuzz
Also do you think there will be enough returns to open sales or will they all go to the people on the waiting list?
Looks like the big bulk ebay sellers (boxes of 50) have stopped their offerings.
Just for the record I'm not trying to start a debate as to whether these are collectable or not, I own several hundred of them and plan to keep them for awhile, I'm just curious as to what you guys think about about potential for returns since so many board members took such large positions.
I beleive that once the dust settles these are going to be a $40-50 set. I have no intention to return my sets.
<< <i>Not enough to reopen sales...... >>
What will the Mint do with the returns then?
<< <i>
<< <i>Not enough to reopen sales...... >>
What will the Mint do with the returns then? >>
Mail them to the 2d chance winners...or destroy them...
set 1 ms64/ms65 did not sell
set 2 ms65/ms65 $47.00
set 3 ms65/ms65 $48.00
set4 ms65/ms66 $46.99
set 5 MS66/ms66 $292.00
My cost around $200
Gross income $433.99
of couse Ebay and Paypal fees have yet to be paid, and I still have one set.
Over all, I think it was a good deal.
Mercury
OK, I goofed....My cost was $25 a set to get them graded. However, the figure on my cost is correct, around $40 per set. I guess my memory is not as good as it once was.
<< <i>set 5 MS66/ms66 $292.00 >>
Congrats!
Getting "noticed" is not the same as trashing the market. These covers were comfortably moving above $25 per raw when the 10 box lot appeared on ebay well under the current market.
Not only did that temporarily "stun" the market, it gave the buyer the perception that there were so many of these to be had.....that prices will fall.
I understand that anyone can price how they please, but these quantities being made available all at once is going to take this market and turn it upside down. There are far deeper pockets than ours in this game now, and careful attention has to be paid when buying solely to flip.....some of those well deserved profits from last years mega products may be erased in the process.
<< <i>Sales 101...stand out from the pack...GET NOTICED! >>
Lets hope that diploma does not get one noticed in a negative light.
<< <i>I still think these are going to do pretty good over time. >>
Keep telling yourself that.
take the 40-50% profit that has been locked in by several sellers trying to flip well below market, that have limited the upside by showing 100's or 1000's for sale in pics, and move on.
once some of these sellers realize what has happened to the cover market, it will be too late and the market too illiquid to exit.
Box of 20
<< <i>I am holding onto my 100 covers. Bad time to sell. Like the Delaware covers, collectors will be looking for back issues in a few years. >>
I'm keeping my one. Then again, I bought it to collect, not to flip. I even (gasp) opened the packaging...
wow... anomaly or new trend?
The Maddy Rae Collection
CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
<< <i>ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... ooooookkkkkkk....... breakout those boxes fellow flippers!
wow... anomaly or new trend? >>
Why on earth are people bidding close to $50 when plenty of sellers are still offering these -- still sealed -- for about $25?
San Diego, CA
<< <i>
<< <i>ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... ooooookkkkkkk....... breakout those boxes fellow flippers!
wow... anomaly or new trend? >>
Why on earth are people bidding close to $50 when plenty of sellers are still offering these -- still sealed -- for about $25? >>
I was looking at this sellers auctions yesterday, for some reason this particular seller seems to be getting strong prices on all their Washington Cover Auctions.
<< <i>
<< <i>ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... ooooookkkkkkk....... breakout those boxes fellow flippers!
wow... anomaly or new trend? >>
Why on earth are people bidding close to $50 when plenty of sellers are still offering these -- still sealed -- for about $25? >>
I asked this before on multiple product listings and the responses were the buyers either weren't good at searching or the sellers were possibly added to their favorite seller list, still makes little to no sense to me???