$750 for a box of 50, sell @ 1175 profit $425 Ebay paypal fees 100 net profit $325 on 1 sale is not too shabby. If I had 20, 30 or 40 of these boxes I would do the same thing.
I only have 108 covers and 10 are set aside for other purposes so I only have 98 covers no major downside for me but if I had 1000 or 2000 or more I would be looking to get some of my investment back even if it is only $300 a box. So those of us who have smaller quantities will have to wait until the supply is lessened and demand is greater. We all have our own agendas with these coin covers.
I hope everyone gets what they expect for their covers.
<< <i>ebay will not absorb anywhere near the quantities now listed in sealed boxes, there is no where near the demand for these things unlike other more popular products >>
I never cease to be amazed at my fellow boardmembers' expectations: if it hasn't tripled in price in 10 days, that means the market is about to crash. We are seeing a different dynamic in play here: most of these coins wound up in the hands of flippers. All the flippers are trying to unload before their 30 days are up. This means that after 30 days, when everyone "cuts and runs," the number on ebay should fall dramatically, and prices should skyrocket. Those who were wise enough to wait a bit before selling theirs should do very well. Secondly: the numismatic press has not yet reported the sellout of these coins.
SIXTEEN DAYS AFTER RELEASE, these coins are selling at 50% over issue price. ONLY SIXTEEN DAYS AFTER RELEASE! Has nobody ever heard of patience? It's only been SIXTEEN DAYS--most would-be collectors (and many DEALERS) have not even heard of these coins yet. Take a chill pill and give it a month or two.
If your criteria for a "good flip" is a 300% profit in two weeks, I'm afraid you will not see many Mint products that will fulfill your desires. If, on the other hand, you are pleased to wait a couple of months to show a profit, you will do very well. We have been so spoiled recently, seeing 50-600% ROIs in 4-5 months on recent products. The best stock market investers rarely see a 15% increase in an entire year! Calm down, set realistic goals, and be patient. These will do just fine.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
7over8, you seem to be forgetting about the "demand" side of the equation. Price is dictated by supply AND demand, not by supply alone. You are exactly right in what you are saying--for NOW. Right now, supply is slightly outstripping demand. But let the numismatic press report on these coins' sellout, and demand will begin to outstrip supply. Let 30 days pass and have 30% of these people return their sets to the Mint, and watch demand REALLY outstrip supply.
I simply cannot see anyone predicting the downfall of a market after only ten days.
<< <i>Low balling to dump multiple cases is just plain cra&py. All they care about is themselves >>
Selfish? Buyers love it. On the other hand, from a buyers' standpoint, price fixing (what you seem to be suggesting) is a selfish tactic that sellers use. When sellers undercut each other, buyers love it, while sellers talk about how selfish other sellers are. When a market is on the rise, sellers pat each other on the back, while buyers complain about how selfish sellers are
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
I think your rant would be better directed at the DUMPERS on ebay as we speak.
You are very correct and make an excellent point about expectations. But the one thing you didn't mention is about supply in thin markets......these guys have absolutely no brains and have listed huge quantities......instead of letting the faucet open to run smooth and steady at the market determnined price
A market priced at 1399+ per case doesn't become a market priced at 1188 per case overnight unless someone decides to dump......
and unfortunately, there wasn't any factor over the last two days that would give me any indication that these should be priced lower than 1399......i.e. everyone can reap the benefits if they wish at 1399,
<< <i>these guys have absolutely no brains and have listed huge quantities......instead of letting the faucet open to run smooth and steady at the market determnined price >>
What do you expect? An eBay Numismatic Sellers' Union that sets the prices and release schedule for numismatic products on eBay? Or do you expect a marketplace? Look at the 20th Anniversary SAEs--they didn't break double release price for THREE MONTHS, then suddenly (after the new year) they began exploding. Was that not a thin market as well?
P.S. My comments are hardly a rant. I respect you very highly (in fact, it was one of YOUR posts that got me to buy into the 2006-W Plats). Believe me, you have my respect and gratitude. I agree with your assessment of the market RIGHT NOW. But I believe it's unreasonable to try and predict the final outcome of this market, when these coins have only existed for sixteen days.
<< <i>A thin market means VERY limited demand >>
A thin market means limited supply AND demand. A few hundred sellers can drop the price on these sets by $1-2 in a day or two. But a few thousand buyers can tip the market $10-20 in less than a week. A thinly capitalized market means VERY RAPID swings in price. The downswing has occurred this weekend, with more people listing. Wait till the upswing begins--when people get their next NN and CW.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
7over8 I usually listen when you speak, this time however you need to go back and re read what you have just written, then pretend someone else wrote it.
You will then come to the conclusion that you are acting in just the same way as those that you describe albiet in a reverse manner.
The big danger is if these flippers return large quantities to the Mint. They will not take kindly to purchasers that bought large percentages of the issue and return them. If enough are returned, and they reopen sales, that will spell doom. It's happened before when they reopened sales of the state quarters. Also you can expect them to impose order limits which will harm us all
the SAE 20th Anniv market was a different animal. They took much longer to sell out, mainly because of limits (i.e. 10 sets) that were never "released" (they said they might allow more purchases per household after 30 days, but decided not to). Also, I will go out on a limb to say there are 10 times as many eagle collectors than cover collectors. Not basis for a thin market at all.
covers have NEVER been a very popular product with coin collectors, having few followers, being very "thin" for resales.
I don't expect any type of union of sorts, it would be rediculous to even propose such a thing, but what you do expect is for people to be SMART about thier actions. Maybe I am expecting too much from pure flippers, but this will probably tie them up while the rest of us can focus on other products to move them to sellout.
Many good points brought up here. Let me add this thought
There are many speculators that will gladly pay $1000 per box. If everyone decides to keep stepping in front of each other on this one, then the speculators will be very happy and the market will swing up.
7over8 you make very good sense but not all sellers will act that way.
Most of these boxes will not sell even at 1100 because anyone looking for a box would be crazy to pull the trigger with so many listed. So we will all have to wait. It will not take a strong demand to drive these higher. There is only 50,000 of them.
Still many people do not even know the Washington dollars are out there. I run across 1 or 2 people every week that haven't heard of them.
speaking of NN and coinworld...I can't believe there is no mention of these yet on their sites. Google news doesn't even have a mention anywhere. Like no one noticed.
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
I guess I'm getting this thread off topic, but about this Friday.... let's say that orders exceed what the Mint has on hand for the ASEs (or for the AGEs for that matter, depending on issue price and wherever gold is at the end of the week). If the products go into a long backorder, isn't it likely that resale prices will rise a good bit?
If melt value covers 65% or more of issue price, won't buyer-speculators feel confident enough to buy even more?
And some on-topic thoughts: I smiled on clicking away at the SHQ covers.
1999 Connecticut: Only 100,000 will be produced!
2001 Kentucky: Only 75,000 will be produced!
2006 Colorado: Only 50,000 will be produced!
2007 Montana: Only 35,000 will be produced!
I still surmise that our Washington (the guy, not the state) covers sold because of the somewhat irrational hope that they would contain errors. (I have a harder time believing that they sold out of a desire to get early-struck coins, given that the SHQ covers still gather dust.) We better really like these covers and start becoming cover collectors, or these Washingtons are going to be some doggy pieces when Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and so on stay on sale through the duration of the series.
Planet: Generally the first coins in a new series sell for better than later coins. Example: Delaware quarter FDCCs or Peace Medal nickel rolls. I think that's what many are hoping regarding the GW $1.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
I believe that a number of collectors, myself included, find the potential of being able to assemble an entire series of a U. S. dollar struck on the first day of production very intrigueing. Although I don't collect covers of any kind, I do intend to put together several sets of FDoP Presidential dollars. Whether they remain in the covers remains to be seen.
TLB: Welcome. I also have great respect for the Sage of Omaha, and I think re: stocks he is right on the money. Regarding coins, there are those that you hold for the long term, and those that you flip in the short term. I believe you should sell into whichever market you understand best.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
7over8, You see "crazy stupid" on the seller side of these covers, but I saw crazy stupid all throughout this thread on the buyer side. There must be hundreds of speculative posts from nervous nellies since the GW covers were released, people buying 1000, 2000, 3000 at a time, then declaring their intention to cancel their mint orders, then buying more, then cancelling some, then the back and forth discussion about what the TPG will do and when will they sell out and oh my god they sold out and oh my god I need to cancel or oh my god I need to buy more, yadda yadda, yadda. That doesn't a popular, hot item make. No. Look at the things that actually have lasting collector interest--they were purchased by people that actually wanted to own them. Those that bought in quantity for resale lucked out. With these, almost all the sales were from people buying in quantity for resale, and they generated their own hype, the product sold out simply because they were buying hoping it would sell out, and they bought until it did.
It makes me wonder what damage I could do, all by myself, if I were to say blog in 500 different places about the wonderful opportunity the Montana first day covers are, registered myself 40 sock puppets on this forum and started hyping the product and posting about all my sock puppet's purchasing habits. With the right sequence of posts and strategically placed buzzwords, I'm pretty sure I could snare 3 dozen newbies into buying out the mint's supply. I'm not sure but I am pretty confident I could cause a mint sell out if I really wanted to. And that mint sellout would amount to nothing more than a few people having the entire quantity that the mint previously had and couldn't sell. It would do little to the market, and it would have no lasting impact on the desirability of the product.
planetsteve The way I see it, if the 2007 W ASE is minted to demand, even if it doubled last year's production, it's still going to be over a million or more short of the coveted 1996 ASE, and certainly a collectible coin. I believe the 1996 premiums are unfounded and absurd, but they do exist so unless those premiums go bye bye because the mint is now minting rarer versions, then I can't see why these won't appreciate nicely. It may eventually become so that the mint produces more W eagles for the public than they do bullion coins, and if that happens these early years will have a premium for the W series. If we're placing premiums on "low mintage" dates then there's no rhyme or reason the 96 is a $100 coin while the 94 and 97 are sitting near spot. I guess it's a matter of time before collectors catch on and decide what they're going to covet.
I still think there is plenty of future demand out there for this product, but I think it would be wise for us all to expect a somewhat rocky ride as supply and demand fluctuate. As 7over8 said, this is a thin market, which means rapid price swings (in both directions). Ultimately, I see prices rising on these once some flippers unload them. I would suggest any owners of these patiently watch the market for a week or two. I think there are still some good things in store.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i>I'm new here and enjoy this forum. This quote came to mind while reading this thread. Felt the need to share it. Good Luck to all!
"Only buy something that you'd be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years." ---Warren Buffett >>
he has made a fortune, but has done so by flipping as well, just on a different plane of finance. he is not one to be perfectly happy sitting on anything.
57 makes a good point--Berkshire makes a great deal of money each year in arbitrage (essentially, flipping). Buffett has said that he prefers to invest Berkshire's money in long-term purchases, but if no good purchases are available, he will engage in arbitrage.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Yes, Perhaps that is a bad analogy. Buffet uses a long-term value investing strategy. All I was trying to stress by reading the thread is patience. Thanks for the welcomes.
basestealer: very good analysis but sometimes it IS about hype. I knew the man behind the 1960 small date and he basically (witha few others) created the error. He bought and bought when he discovered or created this supposed important error and then became a seller. To keep the market strong he bought when he didn't want to but realized that a refusal to purchase could have crashed the market HE created. One smart person-onlyQ. David might be smarter. Even he writes about fads and perception to DRIVE a market.
Coin World's finally going to mention the covers. On their website where they list "this week's articles"
"The U.S. Mint's first-day covers for the Washington Presidential dollars sold out in two weeks." and "NGC has started encapsulating the Mint's Presidential dollar coin covers. "
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
Florida Bill's sure keeping quite. Wonder if he and his buddy returned the 4k FDCs? If he did, the Mint's sure to react in a way that will affect us all.
<< <i> Florida Bill's sure keeping quite. Wonder if he and his buddy returned the 4k FDCs? If he did, the Mint's sure to react in a way that will affect us all. >>
Returns? Nada...and I'm not selling for less than $1,000 per box (33% ROI in 2 weeks isn't all that bad, especially since the "investment" has even been funded yet).
And, I'll only sell 25% of my holdings at that price. I think once the 30 day return period passes the low-ball prices will disappear.
Your logic is understandible, nice return for a few weeks in an "unfunded" investment.
But why would some sellers price below market (dont know if you are one of them)? Rate of return could be better at 1399 a box, the prevailing/stable market before it got trashed by 5 and 10 box dutch auctions at 200 bucks below prevailing market. Nothing in that quantity is moving fast, these things (unless in small quantities) are becoming more illiquid as time moves on.
I think what most need to be concerned about now are the masses that bought up to one box increments who determine that a 200-300 buck profit on thier investment isn't worth the time and hassle and start the flow of returns to the US Mint. That's what can burn everyone in the end - and where the "mass" buyers get hurt the most.
Comments
$750 for a box of 50, sell @ 1175 profit $425
Ebay paypal fees 100 net profit $325 on 1 sale is not too shabby.
If I had 20, 30 or 40 of these boxes I would do the same thing.
I only have 108 covers and 10 are set aside for other purposes so I only have 98 covers no major downside for me but if I had 1000 or 2000 or more I would be looking to get some of my investment back even if it is only $300 a box. So those of us who have smaller quantities will have to wait until the supply is lessened and demand is greater. We all have our own agendas with these coin covers.
I hope everyone gets what they expect for their covers.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>ebay will not absorb anywhere near the quantities now listed in sealed boxes, there is no where near the demand for these things unlike other more popular products >>
I never cease to be amazed at my fellow boardmembers' expectations: if it hasn't tripled in price in 10 days, that means the market is about to crash. We are seeing a different dynamic in play here: most of these coins wound up in the hands of flippers. All the flippers are trying to unload before their 30 days are up. This means that after 30 days, when everyone "cuts and runs," the number on ebay should fall dramatically, and prices should skyrocket. Those who were wise enough to wait a bit before selling theirs should do very well. Secondly: the numismatic press has not yet reported the sellout of these coins.
SIXTEEN DAYS AFTER RELEASE, these coins are selling at 50% over issue price. ONLY SIXTEEN DAYS AFTER RELEASE! Has nobody ever heard of patience? It's only been SIXTEEN DAYS--most would-be collectors (and many DEALERS) have not even heard of these coins yet. Take a chill pill and give it a month or two.
If your criteria for a "good flip" is a 300% profit in two weeks, I'm afraid you will not see many Mint products that will fulfill your desires. If, on the other hand, you are pleased to wait a couple of months to show a profit, you will do very well. We have been so spoiled recently, seeing 50-600% ROIs in 4-5 months on recent products. The best stock market investers rarely see a 15% increase in an entire year! Calm down, set realistic goals, and be patient. These will do just fine.
Rookie Joe
To maintain pricing at 1399 wouldnt be tough, for several cases a week.
Low balling to dump multiple cases is just plain cra&py. All they care about is themselves.
There will be others who dump thiers cheaper, rendering those auctions useless. I can sense it coming.
<< <i>Calm down, set realistic goals, and be patient. These will do just fine. >>
I see no problem whatsoever in a quick 33% profit. Go for it and congratulations.
I simply cannot see anyone predicting the downfall of a market after only ten days.
<< <i>Low balling to dump multiple cases is just plain cra&py. All they care about is themselves >>
Selfish? Buyers love it. On the other hand, from a buyers' standpoint, price fixing (what you seem to be suggesting) is a selfish tactic that sellers use. When sellers undercut each other, buyers love it, while sellers talk about how selfish other sellers are. When a market is on the rise, sellers pat each other on the back, while buyers complain about how selfish sellers are
I think your rant would be better directed at the DUMPERS on ebay as we speak.
You are very correct and make an excellent point about expectations. But the one thing you didn't mention is about supply in thin markets......these guys have absolutely no brains and have listed huge quantities......instead of letting the faucet open to run smooth and steady at the market determnined price
A thin market means VERY limited demand.
A market priced at 1399+ per case doesn't become a market priced at 1188 per case overnight unless someone decides to dump......
and unfortunately, there wasn't any factor over the last two days that would give me any indication that these should be priced lower than 1399......i.e. everyone can reap the benefits if they wish at 1399,
<< <i>these guys have absolutely no brains and have listed huge quantities......instead of letting the faucet open to run smooth and steady at the market determnined price >>
What do you expect? An eBay Numismatic Sellers' Union that sets the prices and release schedule for numismatic products on eBay? Or do you expect a marketplace? Look at the 20th Anniversary SAEs--they didn't break double release price for THREE MONTHS, then suddenly (after the new year) they began exploding. Was that not a thin market as well?
P.S. My comments are hardly a rant. I respect you very highly (in fact, it was one of YOUR posts that got me to buy into the 2006-W Plats). Believe me, you have my respect and gratitude. I agree with your assessment of the market RIGHT NOW. But I believe it's unreasonable to try and predict the final outcome of this market, when these coins have only existed for sixteen days.
<< <i>A thin market means VERY limited demand >>
A thin market means limited supply AND demand. A few hundred sellers can drop the price on these sets by $1-2 in a day or two. But a few thousand buyers can tip the market $10-20 in less than a week. A thinly capitalized market means VERY RAPID swings in price. The downswing has occurred this weekend, with more people listing. Wait till the upswing begins--when people get their next NN and CW.
You will then come to the conclusion that you are acting in just the same way as those that you describe albiet in a reverse manner.
Steve
the SAE 20th Anniv market was a different animal. They took much longer to sell out, mainly because of limits (i.e. 10 sets) that were never "released" (they said they might allow more purchases per household after 30 days, but decided not to). Also, I will go out on a limb to say there are 10 times as many eagle collectors than cover collectors. Not basis for a thin market at all.
covers have NEVER been a very popular product with coin collectors, having few followers, being very "thin" for resales.
I don't expect any type of union of sorts, it would be rediculous to even propose such a thing, but what you do expect is for people to be SMART about thier actions. Maybe I am expecting too much from pure flippers, but this will probably tie them up while the rest of us can focus on other products to move them to sellout.
There are many speculators that will gladly pay $1000 per box. If everyone decides to keep stepping in front of each other on this one, then the speculators will be very happy and the market will swing up.
Most of these boxes will not sell even at 1100 because anyone looking for a box would be crazy to pull the trigger with so many listed.
So we will all have to wait. It will not take a strong demand to drive these higher. There is only 50,000 of them.
Still many people do not even know the Washington dollars are out there. I run across 1 or 2 people every week that haven't heard of them.
On a different note: GO REDSOX!!!
Rookie Joe
The real game will start on Friday, probably Noon, get them while you can.
I was really bummed that Jeter couldnt get something going last night in the 9th......
I guess you have bragging rights, at least for now.
I agree. Only a matter of time before policies change......
I don't want to see that happen.
Sorry, money is reserved for Friday, Noon.
<< <i>08HALA -
I was really bummed that Jeter couldnt get something going last night in the 9th......
I guess you have bragging rights, at least for now. >>
One thing for sure the Yankees ain't dead, a little injured but they will be waking up with many players returning in the next week.
Bragging rights only good in October.
Not much better than NY/Boston series.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>Also, I will go out on a limb to say there are 10 times as many eagle collectors than cover collectors. >>
I agree. But there were also FIVE times as many silver sets
P.S. Friday at noon--is that when NN & CW are released?
If melt value covers 65% or more of issue price, won't buyer-speculators feel confident enough to buy even more?
1999 Connecticut: Only 100,000 will be produced!
2001 Kentucky: Only 75,000 will be produced!
2006 Colorado: Only 50,000 will be produced!
2007 Montana: Only 35,000 will be produced!
I still surmise that our Washington (the guy, not the state) covers sold because of the somewhat irrational hope that they would contain errors. (I have a harder time believing that they sold out of a desire to get early-struck coins, given that the SHQ covers still gather dust.) We better really like these covers and start becoming cover collectors, or these Washingtons are going to be some doggy pieces when Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and so on stay on sale through the duration of the series.
You are right on the money.
Available supply will be the only supply.
"Only buy something that you'd be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years."
---Warren Buffett
You see "crazy stupid" on the seller side of these covers, but I saw crazy stupid all throughout this thread on the buyer side. There must be hundreds of speculative posts from nervous nellies since the GW covers were released, people buying 1000, 2000, 3000 at a time, then declaring their intention to cancel their mint orders, then buying more, then cancelling some, then the back and forth discussion about what the TPG will do and when will they sell out and oh my god they sold out and oh my god I need to cancel or oh my god I need to buy more, yadda yadda, yadda. That doesn't a popular, hot item make. No. Look at the things that actually have lasting collector interest--they were purchased by people that actually wanted to own them. Those that bought in quantity for resale lucked out. With these, almost all the sales were from people buying in quantity for resale, and they generated their own hype, the product sold out simply because they were buying hoping it would sell out, and they bought until it did.
It makes me wonder what damage I could do, all by myself, if I were to say blog in 500 different places about the wonderful opportunity the Montana first day covers are, registered myself 40 sock puppets on this forum and started hyping the product and posting about all my sock puppet's purchasing habits. With the right sequence of posts and strategically placed buzzwords, I'm pretty sure I could snare 3 dozen newbies into buying out the mint's supply. I'm not sure but I am pretty confident I could cause a mint sell out if I really wanted to. And that mint sellout would amount to nothing more than a few people having the entire quantity that the mint previously had and couldn't sell. It would do little to the market, and it would have no lasting impact on the desirability of the product.
planetsteve
The way I see it, if the 2007 W ASE is minted to demand, even if it doubled last year's production, it's still going to be over a million or more short of the coveted 1996 ASE, and certainly a collectible coin. I believe the 1996 premiums are unfounded and absurd, but they do exist so unless those premiums go bye bye because the mint is now minting rarer versions, then I can't see why these won't appreciate nicely. It may eventually become so that the mint produces more W eagles for the public than they do bullion coins, and if that happens these early years will have a premium for the W series. If we're placing premiums on "low mintage" dates then there's no rhyme or reason the 96 is a $100 coin while the 94 and 97 are sitting near spot. I guess it's a matter of time before collectors catch on and decide what they're going to covet.
I still think there is plenty of future demand out there for this product, but I think it would be wise for us all to expect a somewhat rocky ride as supply and demand fluctuate. As 7over8 said, this is a thin market, which means rapid price swings (in both directions). Ultimately, I see prices rising on these once some flippers unload them. I would suggest any owners of these patiently watch the market for a week or two. I think there are still some good things in store.
<< <i>I'm new here and enjoy this forum. This quote came to mind while reading this thread. Felt the need to share it. Good Luck to all!
"Only buy something that you'd be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years."
---Warren Buffett >>
he has made a fortune, but has done so by flipping as well, just on a different plane of finance. he is not one to be perfectly happy sitting on anything.
i learn much here, most of the time
BTW way
Got my next issue of Coin World today...nothing
It's all about the hype. You can have the ONLY coin known, but if nobody wants it, what's it worth?
On their website where they list "this week's articles"
"The U.S. Mint's first-day covers for the Washington Presidential dollars sold out in two weeks."
and
"NGC has started encapsulating the Mint's Presidential dollar coin covers. "
<< <i> Florida Bill's sure keeping quite. Wonder if he and his buddy returned the 4k FDCs? If he did, the Mint's sure to react in a way that will affect us all. >>
Returns? Nada...and I'm not selling for less than $1,000 per box (33% ROI in 2 weeks isn't all that bad, especially since the "investment" has even been funded yet).
And, I'll only sell 25% of my holdings at that price. I think once the 30 day return period passes the low-ball prices will disappear.
FloridaBill
Your logic is understandible, nice return for a few weeks in an "unfunded" investment.
But why would some sellers price below market (dont know if you are one of them)? Rate of return could be better at 1399 a box, the prevailing/stable market before it got trashed by 5 and 10 box dutch auctions at 200 bucks below prevailing market. Nothing in that quantity is moving fast, these things (unless in small quantities) are becoming more illiquid as time moves on.
I think what most need to be concerned about now are the masses that bought up to one box increments who determine that a 200-300 buck profit on thier investment isn't worth the time and hassle and start the flow of returns to the US Mint. That's what can burn everyone in the end - and where the "mass" buyers get hurt the most.