<< <i>Ok...I guess what I meant was why neither of them ever made the final 15 when they were modern candidates? It seems they would have at least gotten a sniff if they were HOF worthy now? >>
Well, its definitely not a pre-requisite..If you look at all seniors who have been close (final 15 seniors), 18 were NEVER modern finalists and 8 were at least once.
Look at the most recent Senior selections:
2008-Emmitt Thomas and Marshall Goldberg were never modern finalists 2007-Charlie Sanders was never a modern finalist 2005-Fritz Pollard and Benny Friedman were never modern finalists 2004-Bob Hayes was never a modern finalist 2003-Hank Stram was never a modern finalist 2001-Nick Buoniconti was never a modern finalist 2000-Dave Wilcox was never a modern finalist 1999-Billy Shaw was never a modern finalist
In fact, I think many times the Senior committee goes out of their way to find guys who never got the chance to have their Hall of Fame worthiness debated and put up to vote. That's something that actually hurts guys like Jerry Kramer and Johnny Robinson. If Kramer is truly worthy, then why was he debated by the Hall of Fame committee 10 times and never received the votes required for election? Many view that as "he had his shot", while others like Emmitt Thomas or Charlie Sanders never got in the debate room. Never had a chance to have the HOF status put to vote.
Personally, I don't agree with that thinking. I always feel like a guy who gets close that many times has got to be sporting SOME type of HOF credientials..The Senior committee was developed to right the wrongs of overlooked players. It's how each voter defines "overlooked" that makes all the difference. I still don't know who all 5 of the senior committee members are who are going to Canton on 27 August to make the selections, but the ones I do know are solid, smart voters. It won't be the group of disgruntled 80 year olds that went last year and proceeded to select Marshall Goldberg. Having Goldberg NOT receive the needed votes was a clear message, and I hope they can truly right some wrongs this year.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason - Didn't Bob Hayes get a big push last year too? >>
Yes, but only to the final 15...The group of 5 selectors they sent to Canton were hell bent on choosing at least one pre-modern era candidate, and I posted as much here on this thread if you look back. I said then, we would see one old timer even before they picked Goldberg..Although I thought it was going to be Wistert...
This year, I know 3 of the 5 voters headed off to choose the final 2 from the group of 15...And 2 of the 5 were guys pushing hard for Bob Hayes in previous years , and stated specifically 2 days ago that Bob Hayes would be the #1 objective on 27 August...
Of course, he will need to be in that group of 15 that the 9 Senior committee members are currently voting on using the preliminary senior list of 70+ players...their ballots are due to the HOF by the end of this week..I hope to find out who the final 15 Seniors are at somepoint between the 11th and 27th...I'll post here if/when I get them.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Now for us Skins fans crying dont worry Jason i will just move on to lobbying for the Hogs, We will strt with Grimm and go from there
And for the Sr list whats up with old # 55 >>
Russ Grimm-Class of 2012
Hanburger gets no love..I don't get it either,after Nobis, he's my 2nd favorite senior LB...Nobis, Howley and Dave Robinson all get way more respect for whatever reason..I don't have high hopes for Hanburger at this point..Especially with Gradishar being added to the Senior LB list...A couple of these guys WILL GET IN the HOF in the next 4-5 years, but all of them won't...At this point, Hanburger is AT BEST 5th in the LB line..But hey stranger things have happened...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Based on his stats, Bob Hayes (if the push helps him to become a finalist) doesn't look like HOF'er to me. He only had 7 productive years, and maybe 4 of those were standout campaigns. I have seen highlight film of him and know that he was lightning fast, and some credit him for helping to revolutionize the WR position, but he was also known to drop his fair share of passes. What's the consensus here? Should Bob Hayes be in the HOF? I'll stay on the fence for now.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Jason, as crazy as this sounds...That makes sense to me. I actually didn't realize there was a senior finalist list. I believe the only list on the hof website is the final 15 modern.
I love looking at the list's you come up. I wish I had just a fraction of the football knowledge you have.....
<< <i>Based on his stats, Bob Hayes (if the push helps him to become a finalist) doesn't look like HOF'er to me. He only had 7 productive years, and maybe 4 of those were standout campaigns. I have seen highlight film of him and know that he was lightning fast, and some credit him for helping to revolutionize the WR position, but he was also known to drop his fair share of passes. What's the consensus here? Should Bob Hayes be in the HOF? I'll stay on the fence for now. >>
I'm on the fence as well...I agree his stats are fairly weak and that he didn;t show up big in big games..The argument you always hear is that he changed the way the game is played on defense. Many coverages used in today's game were designed to stop Bob Hayes 40 years ago...And he was fairly dominant when he played. I wouldn;t mind seeing him inducted, but if I were a voter, he wouldn't be in my top 5 Seniors..Maybe top 10?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, as crazy as this sounds...That makes sense to me. I actually didn't realize there was a senior finalist list. I believe the only list on the hof website is the final 15 modern.
I love looking at the list's you come up. I wish I had just a fraction of the football knowledge you have.....
dave >>
The senior process is a miniature version of the regular voting process....the 9 Senior committee members get a mail in ballot of preliminary nominees, typically 60-90...They select their top 15, return the ballots to Canton and the top 15 vote getters make up the list that the 2 finalists will be chosen. usually the list of 15 is larger because of ties in teh voting..Anywhere between 17 and 22...
5 of the 9 senior committee voters go to canton every year on a rotational basis to select the 2 guys they want as finalists. They debate the list of 15+ and many times will have special guests come in to talk about certain candidates. These are usually former players or GM/coaches who played during the era of the guys they are looking at selecting.
The meeting usually only lasts one-two days and the selections are made. The 5 members actually don't vote though. their choice must be unanimous...So if someone is really pushing hard for say Bob Hayes and won't take no for an answer, they could almost be like a hung jury...now that they can select TWO seniors, my guess is that concessions are made (you agree to my guy, i'll agree to yours)...I wish they would make things more public, but those 5 guys don't want to have to get 100 hate mails a day from fans who are mad they didn't pick the hometown guy...Same reason the regular HOF meeting is held in private...
Would be awesome to see it televised on the NFL network or something..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bob Hayes in the NFL is like Art Powell in the AFL. Both deserve strong HOF consideration in my opinion. Ton's of TD's. Two of the most productive WR's in the 1960's.
Shag mentioned Hayes had only 7 productive years. Yet Floyd Little who's the RB on the future HOF list, had less porductive years, but is somehow considered HOF worthy by many here.
In the context of the years they played and the great teams they were on, Hayes is at least the equal to Lynn Swann. If Swann got drafted by the Chiefs in 1974 instead of the Steelers, he wouldn't be in the HOF. The Chiefs were awful in the 1970's. Having Swann there, wouldn't have elevated them to a playoff contender.
Take Swann off the Pittsburgh teams in the 1970's. Would they still have won 4 SB's? I think they still would have. They had a dominant defense and one of the leagues best running attacks. Plus they still would have had Stallworth, a HOF'er, at the other WR slot.
Now take Bob Hayes off the Cowboys. Their offense wouldn't have been anywhere near as explosive as it was. Their running game would've suffered too. This is all supposing, but it seems like a valid way to look at players contributions to a teams success.
I like this list, although I would add Otis Taylor and subtract Harold Carmichael...I liked Carmichael, I actually followed his career closely as a kid since he was from my hometown (Jacksonville) Just like Bob Hayes was....The many games I've watched of Carmichael, he was always very consistent, possession receiver..He most definitely stood out because he was so tall, which was rare in those days for a WR...But I would never call him dominant like all the others on that list were at times..Maybe because he wasn't a speedster, but he was more the Charlie Joiner type guy, just without all the catches as Joiner...Take a couple hundred catches away from Joiner and he doesn't sniff the HOF either...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
They had that same lot in one of their auctions years ago.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Hey guys, just had a 1996 sp zach thomas psa 10 pop, any help with previous sales would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time in advance. Roger-
<< <i>Hey guys, just had a 1996 sp zach thomas psa 10 pop, any help with previous sales would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time in advance. Roger- >>
Roger:
Just bought two for $11 per, but since I like you, I'll offer you $15 for this one...
I'll keep the want list going. Looking for a PSA 8 '56 Lenny Moore.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
PSA 7 or 8 1948 Bowman Bulldog Turner PSA 8 1957 Topps Johnny Unitas
Amount I'd be willing to pay will vary based on the cards eye appeal. I'll buy the ugly ones if they are cheap..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Very sweet looking Unitas sgc 88 on ebay now great centering thought about taking a stab at it myself >>
Yeah, i'm watching that one too.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>OVER 1600 for that Johnny U GUESS WE WERE NOT THE ONLY TWO WHO WERE WATCHING IT LOL >>
I was out at $1,200...My max...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
OK, as a Cards season ticket holder I may be a little biased here, but why does Edgerrin James not get any love as a future HOFer? With just a 1,200 yard season the guy will be SEVENTH on the all-time list and he has a few good years left in him. The Colts gave him a Super Bowl ring, which tells you about his contribution to building their team in his time there. What do you guys think it will take for him to be considered a HOFer?
<< <i>OK, as a Cards season ticket holder I may be a little biased here, but why does Edgerrin James not get any love as a future HOFer? With just a 1,200 yard season the guy will be SEVENTH on the all-time list and he has a few good years left in him. The Colts gave him a Super Bowl ring, which tells you about his contribution to building their team in his time there. What do you guys think it will take for him to be considered a HOFer?
Jasen >>
Who said he isn't??? I think he already has what it takes to be strongly considered for the HOF...I think the negative on him is that once he left the Colts, he's really dropped off in production, and I think that will hurt him. If you are looking for a yardage number that says DEFINITE HOFer, I'd say 15,000...I'd put him on the same level, talent wise, as a Curtis Martin..James is every bit a HOFer as Martin is...Whenever he retires I'm sure the phrase Hall of Famer will be uttered many times...
If he retired today, he'd be a good candidate, but I don't think he'd be a first ballot lock kinda guy like Tomlinson...Had he stayed with the Colts I think we might be thinking of him that way though...He hasn't looked too great in AZ, average at best really...The longer he plays, if he continues to play average, IMO, it is going to hinder his HOF chances rather than help them..That is unless he gets to 15K yds...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Edge never really had the explosive speed, and in that respect I compare him to E.Smith, but his numbers are certainly there. Barring catastrophic injuries, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I just don't ever hear anyone give him any respect, even when he was with the Colts I think he was overshadowed in the media by Manning and Harrison. Feel free to keep him off the Modern Future HOF list until I get my SP 9/10 though!
<< <i>, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I !
Jasen >>
Care to make a sig line bet on that big boy?
Im sorry jasen, but the NFC is and will for quite some time be dominated by the Cowboys, Giants, Da Bears and the Seahawks. Last good game I saw involving the Cards was when Jerry McGuire was on TNT a few weeks ago.
<< <i>Edge never really had the explosive speed, and in that respect I compare him to E.Smith, but his numbers are certainly there. Barring catastrophic injuries, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I just don't ever hear anyone give him any respect, even when he was with the Colts I think he was overshadowed in the media by Manning and Harrison. Feel free to keep him off the Modern Future HOF list until I get my SP 9/10 though!
Jasen >>
He's already on the All-Time Rushers set so many of us already own his RC...
If he can get the Cardinals to a SB, he will be a first ballot HOFer..lololol..That would be an amazing feat..lol
As far as the future HOF RC set goes, we will have another vote for additions after this season..If he can have another Pro Bowl type year, my guess is that he would get the votes to be added...Same goes for Jason Taylor, Kevin Mawae, and Brian Dawkins...All pretty close to being worthy of addition to the future HOFer set...Would likely take another Pro Bowl and/or All Pro selection for each of them to do it though...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I !
Jasen >>
Care to make a sig line bet on that big boy? q]
Joe,
I tend to know my teams pretty well, so I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. Shoot me a PM or email, keeping in mind that I am still small fish at #25, I can't hang with you big boys.
So I have been saying for years..YEARS...that I'm completely befuddled by the fact that there has not been a movie made about Ernie Davis. I mean they made a movie about some kid from Notre Dame who had one career sack, but they can't make a movie about the first black Heisman trophy winner who tragically died before he got to play in the NFL??? Come on.
A lot of people don't even know who Ernie Davis is. And I think that's a damn shame. The good thing is though, they will soon. October 3rd - The Express. Mark your calendars. I can't wait.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>OK, Dave....we are all dying to know what is wrong with it.
Jasen >>
Well, none of the four corners are what I would call "sharp" . The corners actually look better in the scan. I paid PSA 6 price for it because you cant beat that centering. That said, it would look awfully nice in a PSA 6 holder as well........
FYI, for those interested, I have re-opened my ebay store and will be offering some of my rarest high end cards for sale over the next few months..Not selling off, just downsizing and redistributing funds to other areas...lol
Also have some of my extras available at very affordable prices.
Thanks, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, Is that a GEM card I spotted in your store? Are you planning on crossing your collection to GEM? I bet you might get a couple of 10's!!!!!!LOL >>
I actually bought it to cross over to PSA, but ended up picking up a PSA 10 of the same card before that happened. Even in PSA 10 its a fairly cheap card, so didn't make sense to spend money getting it graded...
If he stays healthy (Steven Jackson) he will end up on the All-Time Rushers set at the very least..And the 2004 Topps Chrome will be the card for him..Anyone collecting that set will eventually need the card...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Also have some of my extras available at very affordable prices.
Thanks, Jason >>
8k for a Bradshaw 9?!? I would hate to see your list of cards at Un-affordable prices. LOL >>
Maybe you mis-read Joe..My EXTRAS are at affordable prices..The Bradshaw isn't an extra..It's one of the nicest cards in my collection and as such will only be sold at a premium..That being said, you have the choice of purchasing an ugly PSA 9 for 5-6K, OR you can own one of the nicest (I'd be interested in seeing a better Bradshaw 9) for 8k...For some who care about eye appeal, the cost is worth having the finest of examples.
All about choice, if the card never sells, my feelings won't be hurt. In fact, I'd probably hate to lose it even at 8K..lol..I may need to raise it..
BTW, do you have a scan of yours? If I remember correctly, it's pretty ugly and it still cost you 5K+...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I agree Joe. When I saw your Bradshaw 9...I threw up a little in my mouth. It looks like someone squeezed Rosie O'Donnell into a PSA slab. Yuck!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Heads up fellas..The votes from the 9 Senior Committee HOF members were officially tallied this weekend, and the list of senior semifinalists are being mailed this week to the 5 voters who will travel to Canton on the 27th to debate and select the 2 finalists for the Class of 2009.
Hopefully, I will be able to get my hands on that prior to the vote and will post here..Maybe give us a couple of days to debate the strongest candidates from the list before they select the final 2.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Typically there have been 17, but with only 9 (sometimes fewer) members voting, ties are common. Each of those 9 selects 15 from the list of nominees (which was around 75). Thats a max total of 135 votes spread over 70+ guys, so that's why the ties are so common.
Here's the semifinalist count the past few years:
2004- 17 2005- 17 2006- 22 2007- 17 2008- 17
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I should have the complete senior HOF finalist list sometime tomorrow hopefully.
I can confirm that Bob Hayes once again made the cut...My current predictions for 2009:
Bob Hayes Tommy Nobis
I would be willing to put money on Hayes right now. I'd go 90% that he's one of the choices this year. I think the 2nd guy will be defense as many of the voters are pushing to get more defensive guys inducted..If not Nobis, then some other DE or LB. Might be a bit easier to decipher once I know everyone on the list, or rather who ISN'T on the list.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I know most of the big players on the HOF rookies set already have one, but I thought someone would jump in there and bring the price up to $500 minimum. Oh well. Good for the buyer.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I know most of the big players on the HOF rookies set already have one, but I thought someone would jump in there and bring the price up to $500 minimum. Oh well. Good for the buyer. >>
Same here...I expected $500-$600. Still quite a few that need it. The way ebay has been lately, the next one will probably sell for $800..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
<< <i>Ok...I guess what I meant was why neither of them ever made the final 15 when they were modern candidates? It seems they would have at least gotten a sniff if they were HOF worthy now? >>
Well, its definitely not a pre-requisite..If you look at all seniors who have been close (final 15 seniors), 18 were NEVER modern finalists and 8 were at least once.
Look at the most recent Senior selections:
2008-Emmitt Thomas and Marshall Goldberg were never modern finalists
2007-Charlie Sanders was never a modern finalist
2005-Fritz Pollard and Benny Friedman were never modern finalists
2004-Bob Hayes was never a modern finalist
2003-Hank Stram was never a modern finalist
2001-Nick Buoniconti was never a modern finalist
2000-Dave Wilcox was never a modern finalist
1999-Billy Shaw was never a modern finalist
In fact, I think many times the Senior committee goes out of their way to find guys who never got the chance to have their Hall of Fame worthiness debated and put up to vote. That's something that actually hurts guys like Jerry Kramer and Johnny Robinson. If Kramer is truly worthy, then why was he debated by the Hall of Fame committee 10 times and never received the votes required for election? Many view that as "he had his shot", while others like Emmitt Thomas or Charlie Sanders never got in the debate room. Never had a chance to have the HOF status put to vote.
Personally, I don't agree with that thinking. I always feel like a guy who gets close that many times has got to be sporting SOME type of HOF credientials..The Senior committee was developed to right the wrongs of overlooked players. It's how each voter defines "overlooked" that makes all the difference. I still don't know who all 5 of the senior committee members are who are going to Canton on 27 August to make the selections, but the ones I do know are solid, smart voters. It won't be the group of disgruntled 80 year olds that went last year and proceeded to select Marshall Goldberg. Having Goldberg NOT receive the needed votes was a clear message, and I hope they can truly right some wrongs this year.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason - Didn't Bob Hayes get a big push last year too? >>
Yes, but only to the final 15...The group of 5 selectors they sent to Canton were hell bent on choosing at least one pre-modern era candidate, and I posted as much here on this thread if you look back. I said then, we would see one old timer even before they picked Goldberg..Although I thought it was going to be Wistert...
This year, I know 3 of the 5 voters headed off to choose the final 2 from the group of 15...And 2 of the 5 were guys pushing hard for Bob Hayes in previous years , and stated specifically 2 days ago that Bob Hayes would be the #1 objective on 27 August...
Of course, he will need to be in that group of 15 that the 9 Senior committee members are currently voting on using the preliminary senior list of 70+ players...their ballots are due to the HOF by the end of this week..I hope to find out who the final 15 Seniors are at somepoint between the 11th and 27th...I'll post here if/when I get them.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Now for us Skins fans crying dont worry Jason i will just move on to lobbying for the Hogs, We will strt with Grimm and go from there
And for the Sr list whats up with old # 55 >>
Russ Grimm-Class of 2012
Hanburger gets no love..I don't get it either,after Nobis, he's my 2nd favorite senior LB...Nobis, Howley and Dave Robinson all get way more respect for whatever reason..I don't have high hopes for Hanburger at this point..Especially with Gradishar being added to the Senior LB list...A couple of these guys WILL GET IN the HOF in the next 4-5 years, but all of them won't...At this point, Hanburger is AT BEST 5th in the LB line..But hey stranger things have happened...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I love looking at the list's you come up. I wish I had just a fraction of the football knowledge you have.....
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Based on his stats, Bob Hayes (if the push helps him to become a finalist) doesn't look like HOF'er to me. He only had 7 productive years, and maybe 4 of those were standout campaigns. I have seen highlight film of him and know that he was lightning fast, and some credit him for helping to revolutionize the WR position, but he was also known to drop his fair share of passes. What's the consensus here? Should Bob Hayes be in the HOF? I'll stay on the fence for now. >>
I'm on the fence as well...I agree his stats are fairly weak and that he didn;t show up big in big games..The argument you always hear is that he changed the way the game is played on defense. Many coverages used in today's game were designed to stop Bob Hayes 40 years ago...And he was fairly dominant when he played. I wouldn;t mind seeing him inducted, but if I were a voter, he wouldn't be in my top 5 Seniors..Maybe top 10?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, as crazy as this sounds...That makes sense to me. I actually didn't realize there was a senior finalist list. I believe the only list on the hof website is the final 15 modern.
I love looking at the list's you come up. I wish I had just a fraction of the football knowledge you have.....
dave >>
The senior process is a miniature version of the regular voting process....the 9 Senior committee members get a mail in ballot of preliminary nominees, typically 60-90...They select their top 15, return the ballots to Canton and the top 15 vote getters make up the list that the 2 finalists will be chosen. usually the list of 15 is larger because of ties in teh voting..Anywhere between 17 and 22...
5 of the 9 senior committee voters go to canton every year on a rotational basis to select the 2 guys they want as finalists. They debate the list of 15+ and many times will have special guests come in to talk about certain candidates. These are usually former players or GM/coaches who played during the era of the guys they are looking at selecting.
The meeting usually only lasts one-two days and the selections are made. The 5 members actually don't vote though. their choice must be unanimous...So if someone is really pushing hard for say Bob Hayes and won't take no for an answer, they could almost be like a hung jury...now that they can select TWO seniors, my guess is that concessions are made (you agree to my guy, i'll agree to yours)...I wish they would make things more public, but those 5 guys don't want to have to get 100 hate mails a day from fans who are mad they didn't pick the hometown guy...Same reason the regular HOF meeting is held in private...
Would be awesome to see it televised on the NFL network or something..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jonny U psa 7
Maynard psa 9
D Green PSA 10
Tunnell psa 7
Willie Davis psa 8
Shag mentioned Hayes had only 7 productive years. Yet Floyd Little who's the RB on the future HOF list, had less porductive years, but is somehow considered HOF worthy by many here.
In the context of the years they played and the great teams they were on, Hayes is at least the equal to Lynn Swann. If Swann got drafted by the Chiefs in 1974 instead of the Steelers, he wouldn't be in the HOF. The Chiefs were awful in the 1970's. Having Swann there, wouldn't have elevated them to a playoff contender.
Take Swann off the Pittsburgh teams in the 1970's. Would they still have won 4 SB's? I think they still would have. They had a dominant defense and one of the leagues best running attacks. Plus they still would have had Stallworth, a HOF'er, at the other WR slot.
Now take Bob Hayes off the Cowboys. Their offense wouldn't have been anywhere near as explosive as it was. Their running game would've suffered too. This is all supposing, but it seems like a valid way to look at players contributions to a teams success.
Hayes...HOF?...yes in my opinion.
Hayes
Powell
B. Wilson
Carmichael
C. Branch
All HOF worthy receivers in my opinion.
Rich
<< <i>
Hayes
Powell
B. Wilson
Carmichael
C. Branch
All HOF worthy receivers in my opinion.
Rich >>
I like this list, although I would add Otis Taylor and subtract Harold Carmichael...I liked Carmichael, I actually followed his career closely as a kid since he was from my hometown (Jacksonville) Just like Bob Hayes was....The many games I've watched of Carmichael, he was always very consistent, possession receiver..He most definitely stood out because he was so tall, which was rare in those days for a WR...But I would never call him dominant like all the others on that list were at times..Maybe because he wasn't a speedster, but he was more the Charlie Joiner type guy, just without all the catches as Joiner...Take a couple hundred catches away from Joiner and he doesn't sniff the HOF either...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jasen
Thanks for your time in advance.
Roger-
<< <i>Hey guys, just had a 1996 sp zach thomas psa 10 pop, any help with previous sales would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time in advance.
Roger- >>
Roger:
Just bought two for $11 per, but since I like you, I'll offer you $15 for this one...
Please drop me a line if you have any of these available
35 Turk Edwards psa 7
48 Pete Pihos psa 7
48 luckman psa 6
51 Van Brocklin psa 8
52 Joe Stydahar psa 6 or 7
52 Robustelli psa 7 or 8
52 Ollie Matson psa 7 or 8
62 Ditka psa 8
65 Renfro psa 8
66 Butkus psa 8
That's a tough list that you're looking for. I'm looking for a nicely centered PSA 8 Sayers rc and PSA 8 Jim Johnson rc.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
PSA 7 or 8 1948 Bowman Bulldog Turner
PSA 8 1957 Topps Johnny Unitas
Amount I'd be willing to pay will vary based on the cards eye appeal. I'll buy the ugly ones if they are cheap..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Very sweet looking Unitas sgc 88 on ebay now great centering thought about taking a stab at it myself >>
Yeah, i'm watching that one too.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
GUESS WE WERE NOT THE ONLY TWO WHO WERE WATCHING IT LOL
<< <i>OVER 1600 for that Johnny U
GUESS WE WERE NOT THE ONLY TWO WHO WERE WATCHING IT LOL >>
I was out at $1,200...My max...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jasen
<< <i>OK, as a Cards season ticket holder I may be a little biased here, but why does Edgerrin James not get any love as a future HOFer? With just a 1,200 yard season the guy will be SEVENTH on the all-time list and he has a few good years left in him. The Colts gave him a Super Bowl ring, which tells you about his contribution to building their team in his time there. What do you guys think it will take for him to be considered a HOFer?
Jasen >>
Who said he isn't??? I think he already has what it takes to be strongly considered for the HOF...I think the negative on him is that once he left the Colts, he's really dropped off in production, and I think that will hurt him. If you are looking for a yardage number that says DEFINITE HOFer, I'd say 15,000...I'd put him on the same level, talent wise, as a Curtis Martin..James is every bit a HOFer as Martin is...Whenever he retires I'm sure the phrase Hall of Famer will be uttered many times...
If he retired today, he'd be a good candidate, but I don't think he'd be a first ballot lock kinda guy like Tomlinson...Had he stayed with the Colts I think we might be thinking of him that way though...He hasn't looked too great in AZ, average at best really...The longer he plays, if he continues to play average, IMO, it is going to hinder his HOF chances rather than help them..That is unless he gets to 15K yds...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jasen
<< <i>, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I !
Jasen >>
Care to make a sig line bet on that big boy?
Im sorry jasen, but the NFC is and will for quite some time be dominated by the Cowboys, Giants, Da Bears and the Seahawks. Last good game I saw involving the Cards was when Jerry McGuire was on TNT a few weeks ago.
<< <i>Edge never really had the explosive speed, and in that respect I compare him to E.Smith, but his numbers are certainly there. Barring catastrophic injuries, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I just don't ever hear anyone give him any respect, even when he was with the Colts I think he was overshadowed in the media by Manning and Harrison. Feel free to keep him off the Modern Future HOF list until I get my SP 9/10 though!
Jasen >>
He's already on the All-Time Rushers set so many of us already own his RC...
If he can get the Cardinals to a SB, he will be a first ballot HOFer..lololol..That would be an amazing feat..lol
As far as the future HOF RC set goes, we will have another vote for additions after this season..If he can have another Pro Bowl type year, my guess is that he would get the votes to be added...Same goes for Jason Taylor, Kevin Mawae, and Brian Dawkins...All pretty close to being worthy of addition to the future HOFer set...Would likely take another Pro Bowl and/or All Pro selection for each of them to do it though...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>, this will be the Cards' division for the next few years (yes, THIS is the year they overtake Seattle), so that will help his chances as his career winds down. If they can make a championship game or SB appearance he should be a lock with his numbers. I !
Jasen >>
Care to make a sig line bet on that big boy?
Joe,
I tend to know my teams pretty well, so I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. Shoot me a PM or email, keeping in mind that I am still small fish at #25, I can't hang with you big boys.
Jasen
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Jasen
A lot of people don't even know who Ernie Davis is. And I think that's a damn shame. The good thing is though, they will soon. October 3rd - The Express. Mark your calendars. I can't wait.
<< <i>OK, Dave....we are all dying to know what is wrong with it.
Jasen >>
Well, none of the four corners are what I would call "sharp" . The corners actually look better in the scan. I paid PSA 6 price for it because you cant beat that centering. That said, it would look awfully nice in a PSA 6 holder as well........
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Linkage:
JasP24's PSA Graded Football
Also have some of my extras available at very affordable prices.
Thanks,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Is that a GEM card I spotted in your store? Are you planning on crossing your collection to GEM? I bet you might get a couple of 10's!!!!!!LOL
<< <i>Jason,
Is that a GEM card I spotted in your store? Are you planning on crossing your collection to GEM? I bet you might get a couple of 10's!!!!!!LOL >>
I actually bought it to cross over to PSA, but ended up picking up a PSA 10 of the same card before that happened. Even in PSA 10 its a fairly cheap card, so didn't make sense to spend money getting it graded...
If he stays healthy (Steven Jackson) he will end up on the All-Time Rushers set at the very least..And the 2004 Topps Chrome will be the card for him..Anyone collecting that set will eventually need the card...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
JasP24's PSA Graded Football
Also have some of my extras available at very affordable prices.
Thanks,
Jason >>
8k for a Bradshaw 9?!? I would hate to see your list of cards at Un-affordable prices. LOL
<< <i>
<< <i>
JasP24's PSA Graded Football
Also have some of my extras available at very affordable prices.
Thanks,
Jason >>
8k for a Bradshaw 9?!? I would hate to see your list of cards at Un-affordable prices. LOL
Maybe you mis-read Joe..My EXTRAS are at affordable prices..The Bradshaw isn't an extra..It's one of the nicest cards in my collection and as such will only be sold at a premium..That being said, you have the choice of purchasing an ugly PSA 9 for 5-6K, OR you can own one of the nicest (I'd be interested in seeing a better Bradshaw 9) for 8k...For some who care about eye appeal, the cost is worth having the finest of examples.
All about choice, if the card never sells, my feelings won't be hurt. In fact, I'd probably hate to lose it even at 8K..lol..I may need to raise it..
BTW, do you have a scan of yours? If I remember correctly, it's pretty ugly and it still cost you 5K+...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hopefully, I will be able to get my hands on that prior to the vote and will post here..Maybe give us a couple of days to debate the strongest candidates from the list before they select the final 2.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>How many will be on that list? >>
Anywhere between 15 and 25..lol
Typically there have been 17, but with only 9 (sometimes fewer) members voting, ties are common. Each of those 9 selects 15 from the list of nominees (which was around 75). Thats a max total of 135 votes spread over 70+ guys, so that's why the ties are so common.
Here's the semifinalist count the past few years:
2004- 17
2005- 17
2006- 22
2007- 17
2008- 17
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I can confirm that Bob Hayes once again made the cut...My current predictions for 2009:
Bob Hayes
Tommy Nobis
I would be willing to put money on Hayes right now. I'd go 90% that he's one of the choices this year. I think the 2nd guy will be defense as many of the voters are pushing to get more defensive guys inducted..If not Nobis, then some other DE or LB. Might be a bit easier to decipher once I know everyone on the list, or rather who ISN'T on the list.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It's pretty bad, but I had to make sure I still had my Hayes. I remember trying to sell it last year with, luckily, no takers.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Emmitt 9
I know most of the big players on the HOF rookies set already have one, but I thought someone would jump in there and bring the price up to $500 minimum. Oh well. Good for the buyer.
<< <i>Considering this is a tough 9, and the first one on eBay since he was elected to the HOF, I thought this Emmitt Thomas went very cheap:
Emmitt 9
I know most of the big players on the HOF rookies set already have one, but I thought someone would jump in there and bring the price up to $500 minimum. Oh well. Good for the buyer.
Same here...I expected $500-$600. Still quite a few that need it. The way ebay has been lately, the next one will probably sell for $800..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!