Though nothing is etched in stone yet, I'd say yes on all 3.
Shag >>
I concur...
Looks like Brady will need to wait a little longer before being considered one of the "All Time Greats" and being added ot the QB set...Another ring would have solidified him..He still needs a few more solid, pro bowl type years...
Urlacher is still alittle young in the game to make the All-Time Defense set...Same for LT and the rushers set..Although he could possible get there next year by reaching 10,000 yards...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Am I the only one who thinks that an autographed or jersey card, as long as it is numbered as part of the main set, should be allowable for the registry rookie sets? From 1999 on, the most valuable card of most football players that meets the Beckett designation of a rookie card (as close to an industry standard as there is) ends up being an autographed and/or game-used card. The same is true for a lot of baseball and basketball players.
My stats came from 1 of the 10 or so books I have on "old time football" There's a lot of really good stuff out there on the birth of the NFL and the years that followed.
<< <i>BTW, Nice win on the Larry Little 9 !! Congrats!! >>
Thanks. I'm currently taking up a collection to help me pay for it.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Am I the only one who thinks that an autographed or jersey card, as long as it is numbered as part of the main set, should be allowable for the registry rookie sets? From 1999 on, the most valuable card of most football players that meets the Beckett designation of a rookie card (as close to an industry standard as there is) ends up being an autographed and/or game-used card. The same is true for a lot of baseball and basketball players.
Nick >>
Nick, the problem that arises with that issue is where do you draw the line? These are specialty/oddball type cards, equal to something like 1961 Packers Lake-to Lake or 1950 Topps Feltbacks or say 1968 Topps Stand ups. Everyone has a different opinion of these type cards and what is considered a TRUE rookie. PSA took the gray area out of the equation by disqualifying all these types of cards to include inserts and parallels.
IMO it was the right call. Opening the doors for one of them opens the door for all of them. There is a way to collect these cards for the HOFers and that is by collecting the HOF Player/Coach/Admin set which allows you to use ANY card of ANY HOFer. The HOF RC set is more defined and specific and i think what makes the set so great.
Best of luck, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I agree with Jason. A lot of us are hobby purists, traditionalists, whatever you want to call it, who don't want writing on our cards - even if it is the player's autograph. Plus if we start using those type cards, which are in some cases a LOT more expensive, it will exclude collectors who simply can't afford to compete at that level. Using an issue that has about 999 cards (this cutoff hasn't been confirmed yet, but it will likely be in that area whenever it is) that isn't an autograph, jersey, or parallell card, makes collecting a set open to all.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I agree with Jason. A lot of us are hobby purists, traditionalists, whatever you want to call it, who don't want writing on our cards - even if it is the player's autograph. Plus if we start using those type cards, which are in some cases a LOT more expensive, it will exclude collectors who simply can't afford to compete at that level. Using an issue that has about 999 cards (this cutoff hasn't been confirmed yet, but it will likely be in that area whenever it is) that isn't an autograph, jersey, or parallell card, makes collecting a set open to all. >>
I have to agree as well. There is an auto set. Some of the prices on these newer RC's is out of hand. How much will a Tom Brady RC set one back. Just think what it would be if it was auto'd. Wont we all be able to vote on what cards are picked for the newer players. Up until just recently it has been pretty easy. Not many have had two RC's until Sanders and Aikman. The pick of the Score RC's over the Pro-Sets were no brainers.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i> Wont we all be able to vote on what cards are picked for the newer players. Up until just recently it has been pretty easy. Not many have had two RC's until Sanders and Aikman. The pick of the Score RC's over the Pro-Sets were no brainers. >>
I dont think a vote will be needed this year anyway..The rookie cards of all the current finalists are pretty much "no brainers" as well...PSA only sends out a vote if there are alternate possible cards. Unless you know about one of their rookies that I dont know about...lol
If Terrell Davis had gotten elected you would likely see a vote choosing between the Select Certified and SP. They are very close in value and popularity.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm with Nick in saying if a card is numbered as part of a base set (i.e. not an insert or a parallel), and is listed by Beckett as an RC, it should not be excluded. It makes little sense to me to include less desirable cards just because they lack an autograph or more of them were printed. But I'm clearly in the minority here and I'll probably just buy both .
I still don't understand how 1950 Topps Feltbacks were not included but 1955 Topps All-Americans were. The 1950 set was nationally distributed, featured CURRENT players, and has cards listed as RCs for decades and currently listed so by Beckett. The 1955 set featured primarily RETIRED players. I'm not saying the All-Americans should be excluded, just that the Feltbacks have everything the All-Americans have and more. I lost that battle long ago and I have nice PSA graded Feltbacks of Creekmur and Stautner anyway, but I still don't understand the rationale. We didn't exclude Nagurski's Chicle because it's hard to find.
We run the risk here of having an irrelevant set. If cards are excluded because they're too expensive or too hard to find, we end up with a set full of ho-hum cards. It was a good move replacing the base Topps with Topps USFL. Let's keep up that trend. My two cents,
Joe
p.s. Hutson had 2 cards issued in his playing days, but neither of them were mainsteam (cereal boxes) and PSA does not grade either of them.
If anyone is interested in learning/watching film of some of these legendary players we've been discussing, check out NFL Netowk over the next 2 weeks...
America Game--Profiling the Top 20 Super Bowl teams of all time has been excellent so far..They've done 20-13 so far..
Starting Monday, they are re-airing Super Bowls from whistle to whistle..3 hour, entire game...
Next Sunday (28th all day long) they are airing the 30 minute highlight films of every single Super Bowl...So for me, next Sunday willnot be a day without football...Might need to take Monday off after pulling the all-nighter...lol
Anyway,just thought I'd throw it out there since we've been talking about many of the guys who took part in those games..If you dont have NFL Network, I hope you arent even in this conversation...How could own a TV and not have NFL Network..lol
Jason >>
Makes me glad I took the tivo with the bigger hard drive . I'm a few years behind the times on technology... is there a way to get files from my tivo to my computer?
Anyone else watch the Super Bowl XIII replay (Steelers v. Cowboys) tonight???--After 24 of course...lol
That was actually the first game I ever watched as a kid...It made football my sport and the Steelers my team at the time (I was 6...lol)
Shag, I dont know how you can say Lynn Swann wasnt one of the greatest ever...Watching him in action again brings back just how masterful the guy was...For as little as the Steelers threw the ball, its amazing how many great catches he made...Nothing was ever routine for Swann..Every catch embodied the excitement of the game of football....
Ill take the spectacular style of Swanns 400+ catches over the hoo-hum 900+ 8-yard hooks of Art Monk every single day of the week...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I know one is a 1957 Bart Starr PSA 10. I believe this card was a bump because the PSA 9 population went from 4 to 3.
I assume it will surface somewhere..And all though I could never afford it, I'd love to lay eyes on it.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Also, the grade weights recently had the annual update, so that probably has the most to do with it. Quite a few grade weights went up and only few I think went down.
That probably made the biggest change..
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Best of luck with that seller. He is a real tool. He will never allow a return and over grades everthing. I bought a huge lot of 1972 Topps football from him three years ago for about $200. The entire lot was water damaged and he refused to refund a nickel. Can't stand the guy, he retaliates on all feedback.
Best of luck with that seller. He is a real tool. He will never allow a return and over grades everthing. I bought a huge lot of 1972 Topps football from him three years ago for about $200. The entire lot was water damaged and he refused to refund a nickel. Can't stand the guy, he retaliates on all feedback. >>
Well, I guess we now know why he's selling cards like that on the cheap...You usually get what you pay for..You can still get lucky ever now and again, but for the most part, if its cheaper than it should be, there's usually a good reason...
Hope it turns out at least PSA 6 quality Dave..If it does, you'll get your money and grading fees back supposing Hickerson does make the HOF this year.
Best of luck with it..I need a darn 8 of that card!!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'll be happy with an 8, too bad I didn't keep the one I had before I picked up the 9...Oh well, both were passed on to fellow HOF RC set collectors, so it's all good.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"I'm with Nick in saying if a card is numbered as part of a base set (i.e. not an insert or a parallel), and is listed by Beckett as an RC, it should not be excluded. "
I also agree with this. The key part if it is number as part of the base set.
Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>"I'm with Nick in saying if a card is numbered as part of a base set (i.e. not an insert or a parallel), and is listed by Beckett as an RC, it should not be excluded. "
I also agree with this. The key part if it is number as part of the base set.
Mark >>
So if the entire base set is made up of autographed cards, we would use that card? I don't agree...Autographs, Jersey cards, Game used cards...All of these are NOT base issue cards, regardless if they are numbered within the set (2001 SP Authentic is a prime example). They are oddball/specialty type cards..Once you start allowing these, you're opening pandora's box for the HOF RC set. Being one of the originators of the set, I'm glad PSA identified the possible problems those cards pose in the future and will keep them out of the set which is meant for regular base issue type cards.
There is an entirely different set specifically for autographed cards. No need for them in the HOF Rookie Players set.
Also another set in which you can collect ANY card of ANY player/coach/admin that you like. This gives you plenty of options to choose from if you want to collect the auto/jersey/game used stuff from the 2001-present era. For this set, I hope we continue to stick to the basics. In most cases, there is a card or cards among the base issue choices that is of equal or greater value than the limited edition auto/jersey stuff.
The biggest unanswered question is where will PSA eventually draw the line on indicdually serial numbered cards? My guess is #999, which eliminates most if not all of the "base issue" auto/jersey/game used stuff anyway. Anyone know of any example of auto/jersey/game used that were numbered within a base set that have 999 or more available?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The 2002 UD Graded autos, base set cards, are numbered to 250, with rare versions numbered to 75.
Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>The 2002 UD Graded autos, base set cards, are numbered to 250, with rare versions numbered to 75.
Mark >>
Which means these are likely excluded based on the low numbering, as will most of the auto/gameused/jersey stuff..I think ti would be very shortsighted to allow cards into this set with production numbers lower than 999...There are already 63 collectors on the set, and the worst thing PSA could do would be limit the number of collectors say 10 years from now by allowing cards that don't support the collector base.
Remember that PSA's main reason behind the Registry is not to boost our egos, but to boost their pockets. The Registry is first and foremost a reason for all of us to get more cards graded to reach the highest level on the Registry that we can. Thats where they make their money, and that's why the Registry is FREE to load your cards on.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey guys, for anyone that wants to put there prediction in for the HOF Class for a chance at $2500.00 , go to http://www.profootballhof.com/ There having a contest that ends Feb 3rd. Just thought it would be kinda cool if someone from the HOF Registry wins. I placed my vote Ray Guy - homer vote - It just not right that P (full time) isn't in the HOF. Time to get the Best Punter in the Hall. Michael Irvin - best of WR on the list and no drug conviction this year. YET !! Bruce Mathews - no brainer Thurman Thomas - 2nd best player on the Bills during there SB Runs. Gene Hickerson - Jason you better be right LOL
Jason - off the top of my head, many of the players in 1999 SPx signed all 1999 of their rookies from that set, including at least 4 future HOFers (McNabb, Holt, James, Bailey). 2000 SPx are autographed and have a piece of a photo shoot jersey, and are numbered to 1350 or 2000 for most players (the 3 shortprints are #/500). There's a different issue that arises from some of the other sets over the years- where each player signed some, but not all, of his rookies from the set (e.g., 2000 Leaf Rookies and Stars, where some players signed the first 200 of their 1000 serial numbered rookie cards).
Are the 1999 SPx more valuable than 1999 SP Authentic? Same question for 2000...Is the SPx Tom Brady more valuable/popular than the 2000 SP Authentic?
To my knowledge they are not, which makes those 2 years a moot point. I think mainly where the concern starts is 2001-present. I don't know of any questionable auto/jersey/game used rookies from 1998-2000 that would have any chance of being more valuable/popular than the SP Authentic from taht year...
1999 SP Authentic Edgerrin James has already been added to the All-Time Great Rushers set, and it follows the same rules on which cards can be used as the HOF Rookie Players set.
In the case that a player only signs a portion (as you say 200 of their 1,000 serial numbered rookies) I would view those 200 as an insert card rather than a regular base issue.
To me, this conversation is exaclty the reason ALL auto/jersey/game used stuff should be left for other sets. Too much confusion, too many variables. Keep the auto cards on the autograph set and the regular cards on the rookie players set. I don't see why anyone would want to change that. PSA has it set up to please everyone.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, I agree with all your points. So far the modern RC acrd of choice to add to the All-Time sets has been the SP Authentic brand. The 2000 SP Authentic set had RC's #'ed to 1250, no autograph, no patch. So that meets the "no less than 999" criteria. The issue really starts with 2001 SP Authentic. It's the first year that includes RC's with autographs in the base set. As well as RC's with patch cards. The numbering on these cards range from 250-800 (depending on card). I think you would almost have to go down to the base product from these years to get a RC card that everyone has a chance of getting (Topps, Upper Deck, Fleer etc. base products). Since the criteria is established, choosing the card will come down to a vote by the people building the set.
<< <i> Since the criteria is established, choosing the card will come down to a vote by the people building the set. >>
BINGO!!!
Bottom line is, everyone will get a vote if there is confusion and/or different possibilities from anything 2001 and later. Before 2001, the only rookie card I can think would even possibly have some doubt is Terrell Davis between his 95 SP and 95 Select Certified. I believe all other rookies are etched in stone 2000 and older.
Its looking like for LaDanian Tomlinson, its going to turn out to be his 2001 Topps Chrome, but I believe there will still be a vote as there are other possibilities. That vote will most likely take place when he hits 10,000 yards and is eligible to be added to the All-Time Rushers set. So we will know before he ever gets to the HOF. That's just one guy though...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
For 2001 and forward, I think the key cards should be Topps Chrome....which tends to be one of the highest valued non-auto/gu rookie card and isn't numbered (that I'm aware of...).
JMHO
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Before 2001, the only rookie card I can think would even possibly have some doubt is Terrell Davis between his 95 SP and 95 Select Certified.
My choice would be the SP card of course
I would have to do some research on Topps Chrome when LT beomes eligible. I don't collect or break down the product. I think though it would be a nice change of pace to use a base product card instead of the most valuable. But, like we said, we'll all get a chance to vote.
<< <i>I'm OK with Topps Chrome. Anyone know what a PSA 9 LT would go for?? >>
Dave,
They sell in the $200 - $250 range. There's a 9 running on eBay now. And the Topps Chrome would also get my vote. Definitely seems to be the most popular of all the LT2 cards that meet the criteria for the RBs set and, down the road, the HOF rookies set.
Andy
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Congrats Jeff..You've been right there with us since the HOF RC Registry started..Congrats on finally reaching 100%!
Why only 4 days???
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Luckily most of those rookies are pretty easy to find minus the Hickerson...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey, just noticed the last few people to post here were/are all original collectors of this set, from back in Jan. 2003 when it was devised right here on the message board...
Me, Davemri, AlanAllen, Gabbs...Even Fabfrank was helping us put the set together...lol
Be a fun 4 years hasn't it fellas???
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
True..Plus a couple fo the guys aren't players (Tagliabue and Young)...All the others can be found almost monthly on ebay...
Shouldnt be hard for Gabbs to grab them..Heck, he probably already has them..Like me he picks up the future HOF guys as well...He'll be back to 100% in a month...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thats see how good i am at guess what you picked up
I say a couple 52,s and a upgrade on a 48 leaf ,
HOW CLOSE AM I >>
You got 3 of the 7 or 8....lol
Unfortunately, I've been getting run up on auctions that others know I am after...After 7 years on the set, and 4 years on the Registry with my set fully open it has finally come to this...Only way I can view my own sets now is in edit mode..Really ticks me off that other collectors will take advantage of my helpfulness with past prices, market values, laying off auctions to let them win, help finding those hard to find cards and just plain stick a knife right in my back by bidding say $700 on a card they know I'm going to bid $750 for..How do they know? Because they asked, and I was trusting...Now I can no longer be as trusting, well except with other HONEST and TRUSTWORTHY collectors like AlanAllen, Davemri, Fabfrank, Gabbs, gregm13, yakbigham and of course Mr. Skinsfan...If you can read between the lines and the names I posted here, there are obvious omissions..They know who I'm talking about...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Are the 1999 SPx more valuable than 1999 SP Authentic? Same question for 2000...Is the SPx Tom Brady more valuable/popular than the 2000 SP Authentic? >>
I'm looking at a year-old SMR, but I doubt things have changed too much.
For 1999 - Edgerrin James is equal between the 2 sets (in 8 and 10 - SPx is higher for 9); Holt is more expensive in SP Authentic, McNabb is more expensive in SPx (for 8 and 10 - SP Authentic is higher for 9), and Bailey isn't in SMR.
For 2000 - Brady is more expensive in SP Authentic, Urlacher is more expensive in SPx, Jamal Lewis is more expensive in SP Authentic, and Shaun Alexander is more expensive in SPx.
Then there's 2000 Playoff Contenders - autographed but not serial numbered (although usually guessed to be about 700 per player).
In 2001 Pacific, Brees, Chad Johnson, and Tomlinson were all autographed and #ed to 1000 or more. That set isn't in SMR, and I have no idea what those cards are going for graded - although I can tell you chipping makes it a hard set to get legitimate 10s from. Meanwhile, is Topps Chrome (#/999) really more expensive for LT than UD Pros & Prospects (#/1000)? SMR indicates otherwise.
Nick..First rule of football collecting...THE SMR IS GARBAGE!!!lolol
Honestly, all you have to do is watch ebay ended prices and it will tell you all you need to know..SMR is about 2 years behind the actual market on 90% of the football rookies...
Thats what I base my valuable/popularity on..Reality...DO a quick search of ended PSA auctions in the football card category. Then look at the highest priced to sell recently,. Compare those to SMR you'll see what I am saying.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
<< <i>Greg,
Though nothing is etched in stone yet, I'd say yes on all 3.
Shag >>
I concur...
Looks like Brady will need to wait a little longer before being considered one of the "All Time Greats" and being added ot the QB set...Another ring would have solidified him..He still needs a few more solid, pro bowl type years...
Urlacher is still alittle young in the game to make the All-Time Defense set...Same for LT and the rushers set..Although he could possible get there next year by reaching 10,000 yards...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
My stats came from 1 of the 10 or so books I have on "old time football"
There's a lot of really good stuff out there on the birth of the NFL and the years that followed.
BTW, Nice win on the Larry Little 9 !! Congrats!!
Gabbs
<< <i>BTW, Nice win on the Larry Little 9 !! Congrats!! >>
Thanks. I'm currently taking up a collection to help me pay for it.
<< <i>Am I the only one who thinks that an autographed or jersey card, as long as it is numbered as part of the main set, should be allowable for the registry rookie sets? From 1999 on, the most valuable card of most football players that meets the Beckett designation of a rookie card (as close to an industry standard as there is) ends up being an autographed and/or game-used card. The same is true for a lot of baseball and basketball players.
Nick >>
Nick, the problem that arises with that issue is where do you draw the line? These are specialty/oddball type cards, equal to something like 1961 Packers Lake-to Lake or 1950 Topps Feltbacks or say 1968 Topps Stand ups. Everyone has a different opinion of these type cards and what is considered a TRUE rookie. PSA took the gray area out of the equation by disqualifying all these types of cards to include inserts and parallels.
IMO it was the right call. Opening the doors for one of them opens the door for all of them. There is a way to collect these cards for the HOFers and that is by collecting the HOF Player/Coach/Admin set which allows you to use ANY card of ANY HOFer. The HOF RC set is more defined and specific and i think what makes the set so great.
Best of luck,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I agree with Jason. A lot of us are hobby purists, traditionalists, whatever you want to call it, who don't want writing on our cards - even if it is the player's autograph. Plus if we start using those type cards, which are in some cases a LOT more expensive, it will exclude collectors who simply can't afford to compete at that level. Using an issue that has about 999 cards (this cutoff hasn't been confirmed yet, but it will likely be in that area whenever it is) that isn't an autograph, jersey, or parallell card, makes collecting a set open to all. >>
I have to agree as well. There is an auto set. Some of the prices on these newer RC's is out of hand. How much will a Tom Brady RC set one back. Just think what it would be if it was auto'd. Wont we all be able to vote on what cards are picked for the newer players. Up until just recently it has been pretty easy. Not many have had two RC's until Sanders and Aikman. The pick of the Score RC's over the Pro-Sets were no brainers.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i> Wont we all be able to vote on what cards are picked for the newer players. Up until just recently it has been pretty easy. Not many have had two RC's until Sanders and Aikman. The pick of the Score RC's over the Pro-Sets were no brainers. >>
I dont think a vote will be needed this year anyway..The rookie cards of all the current finalists are pretty much "no brainers" as well...PSA only sends out a vote if there are alternate possible cards. Unless you know about one of their rookies that I dont know about...lol
If Terrell Davis had gotten elected you would likely see a vote choosing between the Select Certified and SP. They are very close in value and popularity.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm with Nick in saying if a card is numbered as part of a base set (i.e. not an insert or a parallel), and is listed by Beckett as an RC, it should not be excluded. It makes little sense to me to include less desirable cards just because they lack an autograph or more of them were printed. But I'm clearly in the minority here and I'll probably just buy both
I still don't understand how 1950 Topps Feltbacks were not included but 1955 Topps All-Americans were. The 1950 set was nationally distributed, featured CURRENT players, and has cards listed as RCs for decades and currently listed so by Beckett. The 1955 set featured primarily RETIRED players. I'm not saying the All-Americans should be excluded, just that the Feltbacks have everything the All-Americans have and more. I lost that battle long ago and I have nice PSA graded Feltbacks of Creekmur and Stautner anyway, but I still don't understand the rationale. We didn't exclude Nagurski's Chicle because it's hard to find.
We run the risk here of having an irrelevant set. If cards are excluded because they're too expensive or too hard to find, we end up with a set full of ho-hum cards. It was a good move replacing the base Topps with Topps USFL. Let's keep up that trend. My two cents,
Joe
p.s. Hutson had 2 cards issued in his playing days, but neither of them were mainsteam (cereal boxes) and PSA does not grade either of them.
<< <i>BTW,
If anyone is interested in learning/watching film of some of these legendary players we've been discussing, check out NFL Netowk over the next 2 weeks...
America Game--Profiling the Top 20 Super Bowl teams of all time has been excellent so far..They've done 20-13 so far..
Starting Monday, they are re-airing Super Bowls from whistle to whistle..3 hour, entire game...
Next Sunday (28th all day long) they are airing the 30 minute highlight films of every single Super Bowl...So for me, next Sunday willnot be a day without football...Might need to take Monday off after pulling the all-nighter...lol
Anyway,just thought I'd throw it out there since we've been talking about many of the guys who took part in those games..If you dont have NFL Network, I hope you arent even in this conversation...How could own a TV and not have NFL Network..lol
Jason >>
Makes me glad I took the tivo with the bigger hard drive
Joe
That was actually the first game I ever watched as a kid...It made football my sport and the Steelers my team at the time (I was 6...lol)
Shag, I dont know how you can say Lynn Swann wasnt one of the greatest ever...Watching him in action again brings back just how masterful the guy was...For as little as the Steelers threw the ball, its amazing how many great catches he made...Nothing was ever routine for Swann..Every catch embodied the excitement of the game of football....
Ill take the spectacular style of Swanns 400+ catches over the hoo-hum 900+ 8-yard hooks of Art Monk every single day of the week...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I just noticed that the best possible rating for the HOF rookie cards just went
up from 8.93?(I think) to 9.01
Does anyone know which card(s) have surfaced in a new "top grade"
Gabbs
I assume it will surface somewhere..And all though I could never afford it, I'd love to lay eyes on it.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That probably made the biggest change..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hickerson
Hoping it grades a 7.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
That looks like nice clean copy to me!
Congrats on a nice find for $6 !!
Gabbs
<< <i>Dave, I don't know that card at all, is that a stain? >>
Not sure, I'll let you know when it arrives.
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Just picked this up via BIN for 6.00. Seems like a bargain to me....
Hickerson
Hoping it grades a 7.
Dave >>
Best of luck with that seller. He is a real tool. He will never allow a return and over grades everthing.
I bought a huge lot of 1972 Topps football from him three years ago for about $200. The entire lot was water damaged and he refused to refund a nickel. Can't stand the guy, he retaliates on all feedback.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just picked this up via BIN for 6.00. Seems like a bargain to me....
Hickerson
Hoping it grades a 7.
Dave >>
Best of luck with that seller. He is a real tool. He will never allow a return and over grades everthing.
I bought a huge lot of 1972 Topps football from him three years ago for about $200. The entire lot was water damaged and he refused to refund a nickel. Can't stand the guy, he retaliates on all feedback. >>
Well, I guess we now know why he's selling cards like that on the cheap...You usually get what you pay for..You can still get lucky ever now and again, but for the most part, if its cheaper than it should be, there's usually a good reason...
Hope it turns out at least PSA 6 quality Dave..If it does, you'll get your money and grading fees back supposing Hickerson does make the HOF this year.
Best of luck with it..I need a darn 8 of that card!!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, Don't you have it in a 9 already??
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
I'll be happy with an 8, too bad I didn't keep the one I had before I picked up the 9...Oh well, both were passed on to fellow HOF RC set collectors, so it's all good.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I also agree with this. The key part if it is number as part of the base set.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>"I'm with Nick in saying if a card is numbered as part of a base set (i.e. not an insert or a parallel), and is listed by Beckett as an RC, it should not be excluded. "
I also agree with this. The key part if it is number as part of the base set.
Mark >>
So if the entire base set is made up of autographed cards, we would use that card? I don't agree...Autographs, Jersey cards, Game used cards...All of these are NOT base issue cards, regardless if they are numbered within the set (2001 SP Authentic is a prime example). They are oddball/specialty type cards..Once you start allowing these, you're opening pandora's box for the HOF RC set. Being one of the originators of the set, I'm glad PSA identified the possible problems those cards pose in the future and will keep them out of the set which is meant for regular base issue type cards.
There is an entirely different set specifically for autographed cards. No need for them in the HOF Rookie Players set.
Also another set in which you can collect ANY card of ANY player/coach/admin that you like. This gives you plenty of options to choose from if you want to collect the auto/jersey/game used stuff from the 2001-present era. For this set, I hope we continue to stick to the basics. In most cases, there is a card or cards among the base issue choices that is of equal or greater value than the limited edition auto/jersey stuff.
The biggest unanswered question is where will PSA eventually draw the line on indicdually serial numbered cards? My guess is #999, which eliminates most if not all of the "base issue" auto/jersey/game used stuff anyway. Anyone know of any example of auto/jersey/game used that were numbered within a base set that have 999 or more available?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>The 2002 UD Graded autos, base set cards, are numbered to 250, with rare versions numbered to 75.
Mark >>
Which means these are likely excluded based on the low numbering, as will most of the auto/gameused/jersey stuff..I think ti would be very shortsighted to allow cards into this set with production numbers lower than 999...There are already 63 collectors on the set, and the worst thing PSA could do would be limit the number of collectors say 10 years from now by allowing cards that don't support the collector base.
Remember that PSA's main reason behind the Registry is not to boost our egos, but to boost their pockets. The Registry is first and foremost a reason for all of us to get more cards graded to reach the highest level on the Registry that we can. Thats where they make their money, and that's why the Registry is FREE to load your cards on.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
http://www.profootballhof.com/
There having a contest that ends Feb 3rd. Just thought it would be kinda cool if someone from the HOF Registry wins.
I placed my vote
Ray Guy - homer vote - It just not right that P (full time) isn't in the HOF. Time to get the Best Punter in the Hall.
Michael Irvin - best of WR on the list and no drug conviction this year. YET !!
Bruce Mathews - no brainer
Thurman Thomas - 2nd best player on the Bills during there SB Runs.
Gene Hickerson - Jason you better be right LOL
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
To my knowledge they are not, which makes those 2 years a moot point. I think mainly where the concern starts is 2001-present. I don't know of any questionable auto/jersey/game used rookies from 1998-2000 that would have any chance of being more valuable/popular than the SP Authentic from taht year...
1999 SP Authentic Edgerrin James has already been added to the All-Time Great Rushers set, and it follows the same rules on which cards can be used as the HOF Rookie Players set.
In the case that a player only signs a portion (as you say 200 of their 1,000 serial numbered rookies) I would view those 200 as an insert card rather than a regular base issue.
To me, this conversation is exaclty the reason ALL auto/jersey/game used stuff should be left for other sets. Too much confusion, too many variables. Keep the auto cards on the autograph set and the regular cards on the rookie players set. I don't see why anyone would want to change that. PSA has it set up to please everyone.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The issue really starts with 2001 SP Authentic. It's the first year that includes RC's with autographs in the base set. As well as RC's with patch cards. The numbering on these cards range from 250-800 (depending on card).
I think you would almost have to go down to the base product from these years to get a RC card that everyone has a chance of getting (Topps, Upper Deck, Fleer etc. base products). Since the criteria is established, choosing the card will come down to a vote by the people building the set.
<< <i> Since the criteria is established, choosing the card will come down to a vote by the people building the set. >>
BINGO!!!
Bottom line is, everyone will get a vote if there is confusion and/or different possibilities from anything 2001 and later. Before 2001, the only rookie card I can think would even possibly have some doubt is Terrell Davis between his 95 SP and 95 Select Certified. I believe all other rookies are etched in stone 2000 and older.
Its looking like for LaDanian Tomlinson, its going to turn out to be his 2001 Topps Chrome, but I believe there will still be a vote as there are other possibilities. That vote will most likely take place when he hits 10,000 yards and is eligible to be added to the All-Time Rushers set. So we will know before he ever gets to the HOF. That's just one guy though...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
JMHO
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
My choice would be the SP card of course
I would have to do some research on Topps Chrome when LT beomes eligible. I don't collect or break down the product. I think though it would be a nice change of pace to use a base product card instead of the most valuable. But, like we said, we'll all get a chance to vote.
<< <i>I'm OK with Topps Chrome. Anyone know what a PSA 9 LT would go for?? >>
Dave,
They sell in the $200 - $250 range. There's a 9 running on eBay now. And the Topps Chrome would also get my vote. Definitely seems to be the most popular of all the LT2 cards that meet the criteria for the RBs set and, down the road, the HOF rookies set.
Andy
I would definately vote for the Topps Chrome for Tomlinson when he makes 10,000 yards and if/when
he makes the HOF.
I am in favor of finding the guys BEST card that is not numbered at all !! (call me old school)
BTW,
I completed my HOF rookie collection yesterday !!!!!
1952 Bowman Stydahar Large being the final piece to the puzzle.
It took 5 years and a lot of hard work. I'd like to thank Jason and Craig (among many others) for helping me
with my set!
5 years to complete, and now I get to enjoy it being 100% for only 4 days !!!! Nice timing on my part !
Gabbs
Joe
Why only 4 days???
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Joe
Congrats on an amazing accomplisment......
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>That's when they announce the class of 2007
Joe >>
Oh yeah!!!!!DUHHHH..My bad...lol
Luckily most of those rookies are pretty easy to find minus the Hickerson...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Me, Davemri, AlanAllen, Gabbs...Even Fabfrank was helping us put the set together...lol
Be a fun 4 years hasn't it fellas???
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>IF Hickerson gets elected..............
True..Plus a couple fo the guys aren't players (Tagliabue and Young)...All the others can be found almost monthly on ebay...
Shouldnt be hard for Gabbs to grab them..Heck, he probably already has them..Like me he picks up the future HOF guys as well...He'll be back to 100% in a month...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thats see how good i am at guess what you picked up
I say a couple 52,s and a upgrade on a 48 leaf ,
HOW CLOSE AM I
<< <i>JASON why is your set closed now?
Thats see how good i am at guess what you picked up
I say a couple 52,s and a upgrade on a 48 leaf ,
HOW CLOSE AM I
You got 3 of the 7 or 8....lol
Unfortunately, I've been getting run up on auctions that others know I am after...After 7 years on the set, and 4 years on the Registry with my set fully open it has finally come to this...Only way I can view my own sets now is in edit mode..Really ticks me off that other collectors will take advantage of my helpfulness with past prices, market values, laying off auctions to let them win, help finding those hard to find cards and just plain stick a knife right in my back by bidding say $700 on a card they know I'm going to bid $750 for..How do they know? Because they asked, and I was trusting...Now I can no longer be as trusting, well except with other HONEST and TRUSTWORTHY collectors like AlanAllen, Davemri, Fabfrank, Gabbs, gregm13, yakbigham and of course Mr. Skinsfan...If you can read between the lines and the names I posted here, there are obvious omissions..They know who I'm talking about...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Are the 1999 SPx more valuable than 1999 SP Authentic? Same question for 2000...Is the SPx Tom Brady more valuable/popular than the 2000 SP Authentic? >>
I'm looking at a year-old SMR, but I doubt things have changed too much.
For 1999 - Edgerrin James is equal between the 2 sets (in 8 and 10 - SPx is higher for 9); Holt is more expensive in SP Authentic, McNabb is more expensive in SPx (for 8 and 10 - SP Authentic is higher for 9), and Bailey isn't in SMR.
For 2000 - Brady is more expensive in SP Authentic, Urlacher is more expensive in SPx, Jamal Lewis is more expensive in SP Authentic, and Shaun Alexander is more expensive in SPx.
Then there's 2000 Playoff Contenders - autographed but not serial numbered (although usually guessed to be about 700 per player).
In 2001 Pacific, Brees, Chad Johnson, and Tomlinson were all autographed and #ed to 1000 or more. That set isn't in SMR, and I have no idea what those cards are going for graded - although I can tell you chipping makes it a hard set to get legitimate 10s from.
Meanwhile, is Topps Chrome (#/999) really more expensive for LT than UD Pros & Prospects (#/1000)? SMR indicates otherwise.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Honestly, all you have to do is watch ebay ended prices and it will tell you all you need to know..SMR is about 2 years behind the actual market on 90% of the football rookies...
Thats what I base my valuable/popularity on..Reality...DO a quick search of ended PSA auctions in the football card category. Then look at the highest priced to sell recently,. Compare those to SMR you'll see what I am saying.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.