<< <i>Jason, Why did he choose to block the set from viewing?? I guess I know why, but I was enjoying seeing the cards he added. What is the last card needed??
Dave >>
Unfortunately, with success comes stress and he was getting more trouble from having it open than good.
He already has the final card (1952 McElhenney) in PSA 8, but something is wrong with the SPEC # as it wont load in the HOF set. Waiting for PSA to fix it..Should be good tomorrow and we will have a new #1...
I'm still trying to work back up to the top 5...Ive got a PSA 7 1948 Leaf McAfee and a PSA 8 1963 Buoniconti to add when I get them which will help my cause...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, Why did he choose to block the set from viewing?? I guess I know why, but I was enjoying seeing the cards he added. What is the last card needed??
Dave >>
Unfortunately, with success comes stress and he was getting more trouble from having it open than good.
He already has the final card (1952 McElhenney) in PSA 8, but something is wrong with the SPEC # as it wont load in the HOF set. Waiting for PSA to fix it..Should be good tomorrow and we will have a new #1...
I'm still trying to work back up to the top 5...Ive got a PSA 7 1948 Leaf McAfee and a PSA 8 1963 Buoniconti to add when I get them which will help my cause...
Jason >>
Jason,
Where in the heck did you find a Buoniconti rc? I've been looking for 2 years and am still empty handed!!
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Where in the heck did you find a Buoniconti rc? I've been looking for 2 years and am still empty handed!!
Regards,
Greg M. >>
Just working the streets, knocking on doors and ringing up phones...lol..I have a pretty good database of contacts and it has helped me get many of the cards I sold, back very quickly...As they say, money talks...lol
Paid above market for the Buoniconti, but it never shows on ebay for some reason...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>You jinxed yourself. Now that you said that, you will see 5 in the next month. LOL >>
Hmmm..Well if that really works..These cards NEVER show up on ebay..(all cards I still need)...lol
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE DUTCH CLARK PSA 7 1935 NATIONAL CHICLE CLARKE HINKLE PSA 7 1935 NATIONAL CHICLE BRONKO NAGURSKI PSA 5 1948 BOWMAN PETE PIHOS#63 PSA 7 1948 LEAF SID LUCKMAN PSA 6 1948 LEAF DOAK WALKER#4 PSA 6 1948 LEAF BOBBY LAYNE PSA 6 1948 LEAF STEVE VAN BUREN PSA 7 1948 LEAF BOB WATERFIELD PSA 7 1948 LEAF CHARLEY TRIPPI#29 PSA 6 1948 LEAF SAMMY BAUGH PSA 6 1948 LEAF GEORGE CONNOR PSA 7 1948 LEAF LEO NOMELLINI PSA 6 1948 LEAF CHUCK BEDNARIK#54 PSA 5 1950 BOWMAN YA TITTLE PSA 8 1950 BOWMAN TONY CANADEO PSA 8 1950 BOWMAN MARION MOTLEY PSA 8 1951 BOWMAN NORM VAN BROCKLIN PSA 8 1951 BOWMAN LOU CREEKMUR#62 PSA 7 1951 BOWMAN EMLEN TUNNELL PSA 8 1951 BOWMAN ERNIE STAUTNER#96 PSA 7 1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL HUGH MCELHENNY#29 PSA 7 1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL WAYNE MILLNER#57 PSA 8 1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL JOE STYDAHAR#99 PSA 7 1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL OLLIE MATSON#127 PSA 8 1954 BOWMAN DOUG ATKINS#4 PSA 8 1955 BOWMAN MIKE MCCORMACK#2 PSA 8 1955 BOWMAN JIM RINGO#70 PSA 7 1955 BOWMAN BOB ST. CLAIR PSA 8 1955 BOWMAN FRANK GATSKI#119 PSA 8 1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN ERNIE NEVERS#56 PSA 8 1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN ACE PARKER#84 PSA 8 1956 TOPPS JOE SCHMIDT#44 PSA 8 1956 TOPPS STAN JONES#71 PSA 8 1957 TOPPS RAYMOND BERRY#94 PSA 7 1957 TOPPS PAUL HORNUNG PSA 8 1962 FLEER BILLY SHAW#16 PSA 7 1964 TOPPS BOBBY BELL#90 PSA 8 1965 PHILADELPHIA MEL RENFRO#53 PSA 8 1965 TOPPS WILLIE BROWN PSA 8 1965 TOPPS JOE NAMATH PSA 7 1966 PHILADELPHIA BOB BROWN PSA 8 1967 PHILADELPHIA LEROY KELLY#43 PSA 7 1970 TOPPS JAN STENERUD#25 PSA 8 1971 TOPPS KEN HOUSTON PSA 9 1972 TOPPS TED HENDRICKS PSA 9 1972 TOPPS CHARLIE JOINER PSA 9 1972 TOPPS RAYFIELD WRIGHT#316 PSA 8 1974 TOPPS JOHN HANNAH#383 PSA 9 1977 TOPPS HARRY CARSON#146 PSA 9
Lets see how this works out...We've got one month for all these to pop up...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
A few others from my list are already on ebay. Lucky for me, I'll probably get them for much less than I would have been willing to pay for them in a private sale...I'm trying to spread the wealth, but some guys (Gabbs..) don't want the extra dineros...Every card on my list was on ebay AT LEAST once in 2006, but I'm willing to pay a premium to not have to wait...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ladies and Gents...The NFL HOF RC set has a new #1!!!!!!!
Thats got to be some kinda record..Regardless how he got there or what it cost, he did it in just a couple of months..Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Plus another 25K for the Staubach. Thats 75K in just 2 cards. I would guess in the neighborhood of 500K.
dave >>
Where do you get the 25K number on the Staubach???
Don't forget he also owns the SGC 96 Nagurski...Which sold for something like 250K...
Its all about the cards though...Regardless of what was paid, he now has the best NFL Hall of Fame rookie card collection in existence...
The 1933 Grange PSA 9 he recently added probably wasn't too cheap either..lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006... >>
He hasn't topped it quite yet. . . soon I'm sure but not yet.
All-Time Finest Collection Weighted GPA Completion Set Rating 1 The All High Grade RC HOF Set 8.35 100.00% 8.35 1 Museum of Sports History 8.35 100.00% 8.35
There was also some talk in his description of . . .
<< <i>I have dreamt of putting together the best collection of football cards ever. Please help me!!! >>
Will he be attacking the 100s of other sets as seriously?
<< <i>Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006... >>
He hasn't topped it quite yet. . . soon I'm sure but not yet.
All-Time Finest Collection Weighted GPA Completion Set Rating 1 The All High Grade RC HOF Set 8.35 100.00% 8.35 1 Museum of Sports History 8.35 100.00% 8.35
There was also some talk in his description of . . .
<< <i>I have dreamt of putting together the best collection of football cards ever. Please help me!!! >>
Will he be attacking the 100s of other sets as seriously? >>
I think by "best collection" he meant the HOF RCs..lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Where do you get the 25K number on the Staubach??? >>
I believe the other 10 sold for 22K, so I used a rough estimate.
dave >>
Yeah, the last one in 2005 sold for 22K...22-25k is in the general ballpark (obviously it wasn't $1,000 or $100,000...lol) but not exactly...
I bought and sold it so I know the pricing but unfortunately can't disclose private sale information.
I question I always ask myself is...If i had $1 million to blow on cards, would I blow it all on cards???And the answer is clearly yes...lol...Of course I wouldn't mortgage my house, cash out the kids college funds or my IRAs to buy cards...But if i had the dispensable income, I would buy everything I ever wanted too...Money is just paper, just like cards are just cardboard..If it means alot to you to own them, and you know they will likely increase in value, why not buy...
For anyone collecting this set for any amount of time can attest (and Dave has been on it since day one), the prices have skyrocketed..Every year i think they MUST have peaked, and every year the HOF Rcs get more expensive...I've got to think there are MANY MORE collectors with alot of disposable income who will join the chase in the future as well...So as high as the prices seem now, we are all still "getting in on the bottom floor" so to speak...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I have a technical question; if both sets are rated at 8.35, why did the newer one end up in 1st place? >>
The actual rating is a little more in depth..Meaning the new top guy is something like 8.35156 and MOSH is 8.35120...But the Registry only shows the 8.35, and does still show them as being tied...But the Alll High Grade set is actually rated percentage points higher...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I have a technical question; if both sets are rated at 8.35, why did the newer one end up in 1st place? >>
The actual rating is a little more in depth..Meaning the new top guy is something like 8.35156 and MOSH is 8.35120...But the Registry only shows the 8.35, and does still show them as being tied...But the Alll High Grade set is actually rated percentage points higher...
<< <i>Is he going to be listing his RCs in the other All-Time player sets? >>
Not that I am aware of...But once he runs out of upgrades for the NFL HOF RC set, its always a possibility.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Of the 2007 Senior Committe nominees, which do you see getting in eventually?
Charlie Conerly Pat Fischer L.C. Greenwood Cliff Harris Bob Hayes Gene Hickerson Chuck Howley Claude Humphrey Lee Roy Jordan Floyd Little Jim Marshall Tommy Nobis Dave Robinson Charlie Sanders Otis Taylor Mick Tingelhoff Billy Wilson
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Of the 2007 Senior Committe nominees, which do you see getting in eventually?
Charlie Conerly Pat Fischer L.C. Greenwood Cliff Harris Bob Hayes Gene Hickerson Chuck Howley Claude Humphrey Lee Roy Jordan Floyd Little Jim Marshall Tommy Nobis Dave Robinson Charlie Sanders Otis Taylor Mick Tingelhoff Billy Wilson
Regards,
Greg M. >>
First off, i think there are some seniors NOT on this list that are deserving...These senior finalists are not the same every year, but i'll give my take on the other 15 from this year...
Charlie Conerly--No chance..Had a couple of huge seasons, but QB is tough...Freidman got in as a Senior QB recently, but his accomplishments were HUGE in comparison..Not HOF caliber Pat Fischer--Solid player, he was a great cover CB and could tackle...Longshot though, not HOF caliber L.C. Greenwood--I dont think LC ever gets in...He was a great player surrounded by greater players...Not HOF caliber Cliff Harris--Agree with Scott, Cliff Harris was DOMINANT as any safety in the 70's. Doesnt have alot of Pro bowls, but was HOF caliber player and deserves to be in..HOF caliber Bob Hayes--Had his shot as a Senior, highly unlikely he will ever get another..Not HOF caliber Chuck Howley--Very overlooked, but is hurt by the glut of excellent LB candidates..Toss up Claude Humphrey--Was more dominant than Greenwood but played in ATL for most of career..More deserving than LC, i thought he would be a Senior candidate this year..Maybe next...HOF caliber Lee Roy Jordan--See Howley above...I think Howley would be higher on my list, but not by much..Toss up Floyd Little--No chance..Flashy player, but not enough substance to his career..Not HOF caliber Jim Marshall--He was great because??He played forever??Solid guy, but no where near other HOF caliber DL Tommy Nobis--I actually put him above Howley and Jordan..Like Humprey, he didnt get the accolades playinf for an expansion team, but if you have ever seen film, the guy was a dminant force who didnt have much help around him..Like a Zach Thomas...Hes HOF caliber Dave Robinson--Another LB, see what i mean??lol...I put him behind the other 3 LBs, but he's a packer and that always pulls weight..not HOF caliber though Otis Taylor---Made some big plays in his career..One of the first "size matters" WRs..But not HOF caliber Mick Tingelhoff---I thought he would be the other Senior candidate this year...He was clearly one of the best in the game during his years..HOF caliber Billy Wilson--VERY overlooked Wr in my opinion..Much like a Tommy McDonald, i could see Wilson slipping in the HOF down the line..Was great for the 49ers during his day...Toss up
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason- Whenever I think of I have a good bit of knowledge about the history of football, I read your posts and than crawl back into my cesspool of ignorance.
From the list I would say Jim Marshall. Marshall, a big star of day was a key member of the Vikings' Purple People Eaters. He started in 270 consecutive games at defensive end from 1960 to 1979, and recovered 29 fumbles, both NFL records. I guess the biggest thing hurting him, is only two Pro Bowls, however the Pro Bowl voting is usually a bias thing and doesn’t always judge a player well.
Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
I concur. It's amazing to hear Jason's take on the various players. I wish I knew half as much as he does.
Regards,
Greg M. >>
Thanks for the kudos Frank and Greg...For me, NFL History is the equivalent of Dan Marino cards to Greg...lol
It was my first hobby, before cards even..I was scouring the stat sheets and who's who of Pro Football annuals by the age of 8...Had a subscription to Football Digest from age 10-15...I've watched and read everything I can get my hands on related to the history of the game, in particular the guys from back before I was born.
Always happy to talk football on here or give my opinion on the all-time greats or even the lesser knowns...
On Jim Marshall, its not the lack of Pro Bowls that hurts him (ask Ray Nitschke) its the lack of All-NFL selections..Marshall was not ONCE selected as first team All-NFL in his 20 seasons...And it wasn't as if he went unnoticed. The guy right next to him, Alan Page, was a 6 time first team All-Pro at DT, went to 9 Pro Bowls and was a league MVP and Defensive POY to boot. The DE on the opposite side of Marshall was Carl Eller, who went to 6 Pro Bowls and was a 4-time All-NFL selection...So the eyes were on the Vikings defense, and while Marshall was a solid player who never missed a game, he wasn't considered a dominant force... And was actually the 3rd best player on his own Defensive Line...He's also had his chances as a HOF finalist and didnt get the votes. Personally i dont see him ever going in, and if he does, his HOF speech will consist of explaining how/why he ran a fumble back in the wrong direction...lol...Longevity alone doesnt make a HOF player...Needs to have a defining moment as well as be a standout amongst his peers at the time he was playing.
Just my opinion of course, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>IMO, if I had to pick 3 from Jasons list. I go with Marshall, Nobis, and Tinglehoff. >>
My top 3 would be Cliff Harris, Tinglehoff and Nobis...Great minds think alike!!lol
Want some other strong candidates who I think are HOF caliber but weren't Senior Finalists this year???
Jack Butler(the Ronnie Lott of the 50s) Chris Hanburger (I actually rate him above Nobis as the top Seniors LB, guy was a machine and could cover!!!) Jerry Kramer (already had a shot as a Senior, but was snubbed again..Probably never gets in, a shame) Johnny Robinson(yes an AFL guy, but just as important to the 60's Chiefs as Bobby Bell or Buck Buchanan)
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I agree on Jerry Kramer, he should be in. I agree too. Kramer should have been in by now. I guess I have a soft spot for Marshall. Even though he never received the props and awards that Page and Eller got, I still believe he was just as great. I really feel he is Hall worthy just based on his consecutive games streak and longevity. Unlike baseball where someone can be above average, "hang around" the game for 20 seasons and compile some decent stats (J. Kaat, D. Sutton, T. John). In football you either can play or you can't. Especially at the defensive/offensive line positions, there are more intangibles than say at LB, RB or any of the stat positions. JUst my opinion.
I think Kramer's biggest problem is that he is a Packer from the 60's which might be David Robinson's problem as well. There are 10 (unless I am missing someone) not including Vince from the teams of the 60's already in the HOF.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I agree on Jerry Kramer, he should be in. I agree too. Kramer should have been in by now. I guess I have a soft spot for Marshall. Even though he never received the props and awards that Page and Eller got, I still believe he was just as great. I really feel he is Hall worthy just based on his consecutive games streak and longevity. Unlike baseball where someone can be above average, "hang around" the game for 20 seasons and compile some decent stats (J. Kaat, D. Sutton, T. John). In football you either can play or you can't. Especially at the defensive/offensive line positions, there are more intangibles than say at LB, RB or any of the stat positions. JUst my opinion. >>
Well, you do have Blanda in on longevity alone...Take 5 years off his long career and he's not in the HOF right now...I wouldn't complain if Jim Marshall went in..But, to me he's a notch below a Carl Eller or Jack Youngblood, and a few notches below a Reggie White or Deacon Jones at DE..I guess it all boils down to where you draw the line at HOFer/not-HOFer..I think my line is fairly consistent with the HOF voters..The've left a few out that are deserving, and put a few in that probably aren't..But you can't put everyone in, or it diminishes the accomplishment..And you don't want to be too harsh and keep players out that were truly dominant. I can't label Marshall as a dominant player. He was solid, had some FLASHES of dominance, but nothing like the guys I mentioned above.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I think Kramer's biggest problem is that he is a Packer from the 60's which might be David Robinson's problem as well. There are 10 (unless I am missing someone) not including Vince from the teams of the 60's already in the HOF. >>
Agreed..LC Greenwood and Donnie Shell running into the same problem...
For Robinson, if you forget about what team he played for and just match him up with other eligible LBs from that era, would you honestly put him 1st in that line? I can see one or maybe 2 of these Senior LBs getting in down the road, but for me Robinson wasn't better than Hanburger or Nobis..I mean its not even close...He didnt have the ballhawking skills of Hanburger, and wasn't the tackling machine/disruptive force that Nobis was...He was a good player on a great team...And i doubt the voters put in 4-5 LBs from that time frame, especially since Dave Wilcox already got in as a Senior from the late 60s-early 70s era...
Wil be interesting to watch as time goes on...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Someone mentioned on the Baseball HOF thread that you either a HOFer when you retire or not. I am not sure what some of the Sr. Nominee's due other than to make each years class around 4-5 people. Some of these players have been eligible for decades and havent been enshrined yet. The HOF is like everything else; Pro-Bowl, All-Pro's, MVP's, All Decade Teams...people deserving are always left out. But generally those that are the most worthly are always included.
For example if Art Monk wanst that worthy to be elected a HOFer for the last few years how does his case get any better. I understand the arguement about that the game changes. But if people passed him up for other people when he first came out, how does he stand a chance now? He hasnt caught anymore passes.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Someone mentioned on the Baseball HOF thread that you either a HOFer when you retire or not. I am not sure what some of the Sr. Nominee's due other than to make each years class around 4-5 people. Some of these players have been eligible for decades and havent been enshrined yet. The HOF is like everything else; Pro-Bowl, All-Pro's, MVP's, All Decade Teams...people deserving are always left out. But generally those that are the most worthly are always included.
For example if Art Monk wanst that worthy to be elected a HOFer for the last few years how does his case get any better. I understand the arguement about that the game changes. But if people passed him up for other people when he first came out, how does he stand a chance now? He hasnt caught anymore passes. >>
I think what can change are the minds of the voters. When the voters get together each year to vote on the finalists, they pose arguements for and against most of the candidates..Obviously someone like Jerry Rice or Dan Marino needs no explanation, but guys like Rayfield Wright or Art Monk that are borderline get debated. Maybe the previous years of hearing the case FOR Monk will change those last few voters minds and he gets in.
They are also constricted to a max of 6..So if, like last year, there are more than 6 strong candidates, all of them can't get in.
I'm thankful they have the Senior process, because it gives a chance for some of the older guys, who SHOULD already be in the HOF, to get their name back into the debate..Unlike baseball, football only has a handful of voters..One or 2 guys votes can make the difference between a guy getting elected or not...
IMO, there are a handful of guys in the HOF that don't belong, as well as a handful of guys that aren't in that do belong...They aren't going to vote anyone OUT of the HOF, but why not debate some of the guys that maybe some of the current voters have never had a chance to vote on? The voters today arent the same ones who were voting 30 years ago...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:
Fred Dean - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers Richard Dent - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders Gene Hickerson - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles Andre Reed - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins Charlie Sanders - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006 Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins Andre Tippett - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots Roger Wehrli - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos
More interestingly, here are the guys who didn't make the cut from 27/17:
Terrell Davis-I think this really hurts his chances down the road Dermontti Dawson-Up against a ton of O-Lineman. I think he'll get his chances down the road, he was dominant. Randy Gradishar-Next year will be his last as a Modern candidate and will be in a long list of Senior Candidate LBs. Kevin Greene-Long shot to ever get in, but once Derrick Thomas gets in, there are no NEW HOF caliber LBs coming up for at least 5 years Charles Haley-Longshot to ever make it, but if Dent gets in will help his case Lester Hayes-Darrell Green, Aeneas Williams and Deion Sanders coming soon to the list, his chances are about gone Randall McDaniel- Didnt expect him to make the HOF first ballot, but how was he not chosen over say Fred Dean or Andre Tippet as a finalist? He will eventually get in Art Model-Too disliked for the Cleveland move Ken Stabler-With no solid HOF QB candidates coming in for the next 5 years at least, Stabler might get a shot next year or 2009 (his last as a modern candidate) George Young-???
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm feverishly trying to pick up rookies of all the finalists. So far I have:
Fred Dean - Have PSA 9 Richard Dent - Have PSA 8, looking for PSA 9 Russ Grimm - Guard - Have PSA 9 Ray Guy - Punter - Nothing - looking for a PSA 8 Gene Hickerson - Have PSA 8 Michael Irvin - Have PSA 9, looking for PSA 10 Bob Kuechenberg - Have PSA 8 Bruce Matthews - Have PSA 10 Art Monk - Have PSA 9 Andre Reed - Have PSA 9 Charlie Sanders - Have PSA 9 Paul Tagliabue - N/A Derrick Thomas - Have PSA 8, looking for PSA 10 Thurman Thomas - Have PSA 10 Andre Tippett - Have PSA 9 Roger Wehrli - Have PSA 8 Gary Zimmerman - Have PSA 9
How about everyone else?
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Can anyone post a list of last year's finalists? Jason, you're on the clock...
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
TROY AIKMAN HARRY CARSON7 L.C. Greenwood6 Russ Grimm2 Claude Humphrey3 Michael Irvin2 Bob Kuechenberg5 JOHN MADDEN2 Art Monk6 WARREN MOON Derrick Thomas2 Thurman Thomas REGGIE WHITE RAYFIELD WRIGHT2 Gary Zimmerman3
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Thanks Greg. So is the number next to the name the number of years that player has been a finalist, as of last year?
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
The whole football HOF voting process just seems weird to me. How does someone like L.C. Greenwood go from a 6-time finalist to off the ballot and then, probably, back on it again. In baseball, there's no surprises. It's very predictable for the non first-time eligibles (for the first-time eligibles too actually). See who came close last year, and there you have it.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>The whole football HOF voting process just seems weird to me. How does someone like L.C. Greenwood go from a 6-time finalist to off the ballot and then, probably, back on it again. In baseball, there's no surprises. It's very predictable for the non first-time eligibles (for the first-time eligibles too actually). See who came close last year, and there you have it. >>
Then again, the baseball HOF voters won't vote anyone into the hall of fame unless they're an absolute superstar and have been to 15 all star games.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>The whole football HOF voting process just seems weird to me. How does someone like L.C. Greenwood go from a 6-time finalist to off the ballot and then, probably, back on it again. In baseball, there's no surprises. It's very predictable for the non first-time eligibles (for the first-time eligibles too actually). See who came close last year, and there you have it. >>
The only thing I dislike about the football process is that they have only 39 voters...I think the nuber should be at least 100 and should include all the GMs from around the league...
The good thing that they do, is all sit down in a room together and discuss the pros and cons of players careers (to include highlight packages)...Baseball is very informal, with a bunch of media guys sending votes in through the mail..The way the Football HOF handles it allows for guys to have their careers raked over multiple times...You have the obvious first ballot guys, like say a Reggie White, who requires no review to get the votes..But other guys like Rayfield Wright who maybe didn't look so strong last year, maybe one of the voters buts together a top notch argument this year and earns him the votes...
Player evaluation is different for everyone..Shag thinks Barry Sanders and Harold Jackson were the greatest ever at their position, while I whole-heartedly disagree...lol...Opinions of the voting committee are similar, which is why you never know (except for the locks) whos going in from year to year...If no one gets behind Thurman Thomas this year, he could get overlooked again..Someone puches hard for Roger Wehrli he could get his 80% (31 of the 39 votes)...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Shag thinks Barry Sanders and Harold Jackson were the greatest ever at their position, while I whole-heartedly disagree...lol >>
Thanks a lot Jason. Just throw my street cred under the bus. LOL. For the record, my top 4 at both positions:
RB's
1. Jim Brown 2. Barry Sanders 3. Walter Payton 4. Emmitt Smith
WR's
1. Jerry Rice 2. Lance Alworth 3. Don Hutson 4. Cris Carter
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Comments
<< <i>Jason, Why did he choose to block the set from viewing?? I guess I know why, but I was enjoying seeing the cards he added. What is the last card needed??
Dave >>
Unfortunately, with success comes stress and he was getting more trouble from having it open than good.
He already has the final card (1952 McElhenney) in PSA 8, but something is wrong with the SPEC # as it wont load in the HOF set. Waiting for PSA to fix it..Should be good tomorrow and we will have a new #1...
I'm still trying to work back up to the top 5...Ive got a PSA 7 1948 Leaf McAfee and a PSA 8 1963 Buoniconti to add when I get them which will help my cause...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason, Why did he choose to block the set from viewing?? I guess I know why, but I was enjoying seeing the cards he added. What is the last card needed??
Dave >>
Unfortunately, with success comes stress and he was getting more trouble from having it open than good.
He already has the final card (1952 McElhenney) in PSA 8, but something is wrong with the SPEC # as it wont load in the HOF set. Waiting for PSA to fix it..Should be good tomorrow and we will have a new #1...
I'm still trying to work back up to the top 5...Ive got a PSA 7 1948 Leaf McAfee and a PSA 8 1963 Buoniconti to add when I get them which will help my cause...
Jason >>
Jason,
Where in the heck did you find a Buoniconti rc? I've been looking for 2 years and am still empty handed!!
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Jason,
Where in the heck did you find a Buoniconti rc? I've been looking for 2 years and am still empty handed!!
Regards,
Greg M. >>
Just working the streets, knocking on doors and ringing up phones...lol..I have a pretty good database of contacts and it has helped me get many of the cards I sold, back very quickly...As they say, money talks...lol
Paid above market for the Buoniconti, but it never shows on ebay for some reason...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>You jinxed yourself. Now that you said that, you will see 5 in the next month. LOL >>
Hmmm..Well if that really works..These cards NEVER show up on ebay..(all cards I still need)...lol
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE DUTCH CLARK PSA 7
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE CLARKE HINKLE PSA 7
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE BRONKO NAGURSKI PSA 5
1948 BOWMAN PETE PIHOS#63 PSA 7
1948 LEAF SID LUCKMAN PSA 6
1948 LEAF DOAK WALKER#4 PSA 6
1948 LEAF BOBBY LAYNE PSA 6
1948 LEAF STEVE VAN BUREN PSA 7
1948 LEAF BOB WATERFIELD PSA 7
1948 LEAF CHARLEY TRIPPI#29 PSA 6
1948 LEAF SAMMY BAUGH PSA 6
1948 LEAF GEORGE CONNOR PSA 7
1948 LEAF LEO NOMELLINI PSA 6
1948 LEAF CHUCK BEDNARIK#54 PSA 5
1950 BOWMAN YA TITTLE PSA 8
1950 BOWMAN TONY CANADEO PSA 8
1950 BOWMAN MARION MOTLEY PSA 8
1951 BOWMAN NORM VAN BROCKLIN PSA 8
1951 BOWMAN LOU CREEKMUR#62 PSA 7
1951 BOWMAN EMLEN TUNNELL PSA 8
1951 BOWMAN ERNIE STAUTNER#96 PSA 7
1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL HUGH MCELHENNY#29 PSA 7
1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL WAYNE MILLNER#57 PSA 8
1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL JOE STYDAHAR#99 PSA 7
1952 BOWMAN LARGE/SMALL OLLIE MATSON#127 PSA 8
1954 BOWMAN DOUG ATKINS#4 PSA 8
1955 BOWMAN MIKE MCCORMACK#2 PSA 8
1955 BOWMAN JIM RINGO#70 PSA 7
1955 BOWMAN BOB ST. CLAIR PSA 8
1955 BOWMAN FRANK GATSKI#119 PSA 8
1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN ERNIE NEVERS#56 PSA 8
1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN ACE PARKER#84 PSA 8
1956 TOPPS JOE SCHMIDT#44 PSA 8
1956 TOPPS STAN JONES#71 PSA 8
1957 TOPPS RAYMOND BERRY#94 PSA 7
1957 TOPPS PAUL HORNUNG PSA 8
1962 FLEER BILLY SHAW#16 PSA 7
1964 TOPPS BOBBY BELL#90 PSA 8
1965 PHILADELPHIA MEL RENFRO#53 PSA 8
1965 TOPPS WILLIE BROWN PSA 8
1965 TOPPS JOE NAMATH PSA 7
1966 PHILADELPHIA BOB BROWN PSA 8
1967 PHILADELPHIA LEROY KELLY#43 PSA 7
1970 TOPPS JAN STENERUD#25 PSA 8
1971 TOPPS KEN HOUSTON PSA 9
1972 TOPPS TED HENDRICKS PSA 9
1972 TOPPS CHARLIE JOINER PSA 9
1972 TOPPS RAYFIELD WRIGHT#316 PSA 8
1974 TOPPS JOHN HANNAH#383 PSA 9
1977 TOPPS HARRY CARSON#146 PSA 9
Lets see how this works out...We've got one month for all these to pop up...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>You jinxed yourself. Now that you said that, you will see 5 in the next month. LOL >>
I hope it does!! Althought there is a nice PSA 8 on E-Bay - that is almost miscut but not labeled as such in the title.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Here is a Rayfield Wright rookie (sorry I dont know how to post a link!!)
Regards,
Gabbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=200065100253&rd=1&rd=1
<< <i>Jason,
Here is a Rayfield Wright rookie (sorry I dont know how to post a link!!)
Regards,
Gabbs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=200065100253&rd=1&rd=1 >>
Yep, already watching that one...lol
A few others from my list are already on ebay. Lucky for me, I'll probably get them for much less than I would have been willing to pay for them in a private sale...I'm trying to spread the wealth, but some guys (Gabbs..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thats got to be some kinda record..Regardless how he got there or what it cost, he did it in just a couple of months..Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Joe
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Plus another 25K for the Staubach. Thats 75K in just 2 cards. I would guess in the neighborhood of 500K.
dave >>
Where do you get the 25K number on the Staubach???
Don't forget he also owns the SGC 96 Nagurski...Which sold for something like 250K...
Its all about the cards though...Regardless of what was paid, he now has the best NFL Hall of Fame rookie card collection in existence...
The 1933 Grange PSA 9 he recently added probably wasn't too cheap either..lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006... >>
He hasn't topped it quite yet. . . soon I'm sure but not yet.
All-Time Finest
Collection Weighted GPA Completion Set Rating
1 The All High Grade RC HOF Set 8.35 100.00% 8.35
1 Museum of Sports History 8.35 100.00% 8.35
There was also some talk in his description of . . .
<< <i>I have dreamt of putting together the best collection of football cards ever. Please help me!!! >>
Will he be attacking the 100s of other sets as seriously?
<< <i>
<< <i>Topping a set that won "Set of the Year" in the Registry awards for 2006... >>
He hasn't topped it quite yet. . . soon I'm sure but not yet.
All-Time Finest
Collection Weighted GPA Completion Set Rating
1 The All High Grade RC HOF Set 8.35 100.00% 8.35
1 Museum of Sports History 8.35 100.00% 8.35
There was also some talk in his description of . . .
<< <i>I have dreamt of putting together the best collection of football cards ever. Please help me!!! >>
Will he be attacking the 100s of other sets as seriously? >>
I think by "best collection" he meant the HOF RCs..lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Where do you get the 25K number on the Staubach??? >>
I believe the other 10 sold for 22K, so I used a rough estimate.
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I think by "best collection" he meant the HOF RCs..lol >>
Oh, lol, got it.
Yes you are right Dave, about $22k. That's what I have logged also.
<< <i>
<< <i>Where do you get the 25K number on the Staubach??? >>
I believe the other 10 sold for 22K, so I used a rough estimate.
dave >>
Yeah, the last one in 2005 sold for 22K...22-25k is in the general ballpark (obviously it wasn't $1,000 or $100,000...lol) but not exactly...
I bought and sold it so I know the pricing but unfortunately can't disclose private sale information.
I question I always ask myself is...If i had $1 million to blow on cards, would I blow it all on cards???And the answer is clearly yes...lol...Of course I wouldn't mortgage my house, cash out the kids college funds or my IRAs to buy cards...But if i had the dispensable income, I would buy everything I ever wanted too...Money is just paper, just like cards are just cardboard..If it means alot to you to own them, and you know they will likely increase in value, why not buy...
For anyone collecting this set for any amount of time can attest (and Dave has been on it since day one), the prices have skyrocketed..Every year i think they MUST have peaked, and every year the HOF Rcs get more expensive...I've got to think there are MANY MORE collectors with alot of disposable income who will join the chase in the future as well...So as high as the prices seem now, we are all still "getting in on the bottom floor" so to speak...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I have a technical question; if both sets are rated at 8.35, why did the newer one end up in 1st place? >>
The actual rating is a little more in depth..Meaning the new top guy is something like 8.35156 and MOSH is 8.35120...But the Registry only shows the 8.35, and does still show them as being tied...But the Alll High Grade set is actually rated percentage points higher...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a technical question; if both sets are rated at 8.35, why did the newer one end up in 1st place? >>
The actual rating is a little more in depth..Meaning the new top guy is something like 8.35156 and MOSH is 8.35120...But the Registry only shows the 8.35, and does still show them as being tied...But the Alll High Grade set is actually rated percentage points higher...
Jason >>
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense.
<< <i>Is he going to be listing his RCs in the other All-Time player sets? >>
Not that I am aware of...But once he runs out of upgrades for the NFL HOF RC set, its always a possibility.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Of the 2007 Senior Committe nominees, which do you see getting in eventually?
Charlie Conerly
Pat Fischer
L.C. Greenwood
Cliff Harris
Bob Hayes
Gene Hickerson
Chuck Howley
Claude Humphrey
Lee Roy Jordan
Floyd Little
Jim Marshall
Tommy Nobis
Dave Robinson
Charlie Sanders
Otis Taylor
Mick Tingelhoff
Billy Wilson
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Hickerson and Sanders are Senior Finalists this year.
I am hoping Harris and Howley make it next year. Tinglehoff definetly deserves a serious look also.
Scott
<< <i>Greg,
Hickerson and Sanders are Senior Finalists this year.
I am hoping Harris and Howley make it next year. Tinglehoff definetly deserves a serious look also.
Scott >>
Scott,
My question was a little unclear. I know that Hickerson and Sanders are finalists this year - I was wondering about the other 15 players.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Jason,
Of the 2007 Senior Committe nominees, which do you see getting in eventually?
Charlie Conerly
Pat Fischer
L.C. Greenwood
Cliff Harris
Bob Hayes
Gene Hickerson
Chuck Howley
Claude Humphrey
Lee Roy Jordan
Floyd Little
Jim Marshall
Tommy Nobis
Dave Robinson
Charlie Sanders
Otis Taylor
Mick Tingelhoff
Billy Wilson
Regards,
Greg M. >>
First off, i think there are some seniors NOT on this list that are deserving...These senior finalists are not the same every year, but i'll give my take on the other 15 from this year...
Charlie Conerly--No chance..Had a couple of huge seasons, but QB is tough...Freidman got in as a Senior QB recently, but his accomplishments were HUGE in comparison..Not HOF caliber
Pat Fischer--Solid player, he was a great cover CB and could tackle...Longshot though, not HOF caliber
L.C. Greenwood--I dont think LC ever gets in...He was a great player surrounded by greater players...Not HOF caliber
Cliff Harris--Agree with Scott, Cliff Harris was DOMINANT as any safety in the 70's. Doesnt have alot of Pro bowls, but was HOF caliber player and deserves to be in..HOF caliber
Bob Hayes--Had his shot as a Senior, highly unlikely he will ever get another..Not HOF caliber
Chuck Howley--Very overlooked, but is hurt by the glut of excellent LB candidates..Toss up
Claude Humphrey--Was more dominant than Greenwood but played in ATL for most of career..More deserving than LC, i thought he would be a Senior candidate this year..Maybe next...HOF caliber
Lee Roy Jordan--See Howley above...I think Howley would be higher on my list, but not by much..Toss up
Floyd Little--No chance..Flashy player, but not enough substance to his career..Not HOF caliber
Jim Marshall--He was great because??He played forever??Solid guy, but no where near other HOF caliber DL
Tommy Nobis--I actually put him above Howley and Jordan..Like Humprey, he didnt get the accolades playinf for an expansion team, but if you have ever seen film, the guy was a dminant force who didnt have much help around him..Like a Zach Thomas...Hes HOF caliber
Dave Robinson--Another LB, see what i mean??lol...I put him behind the other 3 LBs, but he's a packer and that always pulls weight..not HOF caliber though
Otis Taylor---Made some big plays in his career..One of the first "size matters" WRs..But not HOF caliber
Mick Tingelhoff---I thought he would be the other Senior candidate this year...He was clearly one of the best in the game during his years..HOF caliber
Billy Wilson--VERY overlooked Wr in my opinion..Much like a Tommy McDonald, i could see Wilson slipping in the HOF down the line..Was great for the 49ers during his day...Toss up
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I concur. It's amazing to hear Jason's take on the various players. I wish I knew half as much as he does.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Frank,
I concur. It's amazing to hear Jason's take on the various players. I wish I knew half as much as he does.
Regards,
Greg M. >>
Thanks for the kudos Frank and Greg...For me, NFL History is the equivalent of Dan Marino cards to Greg...lol
It was my first hobby, before cards even..I was scouring the stat sheets and who's who of Pro Football annuals by the age of 8...Had a subscription to Football Digest from age 10-15...I've watched and read everything I can get my hands on related to the history of the game, in particular the guys from back before I was born.
Always happy to talk football on here or give my opinion on the all-time greats or even the lesser knowns...
On Jim Marshall, its not the lack of Pro Bowls that hurts him (ask Ray Nitschke) its the lack of All-NFL selections..Marshall was not ONCE selected as first team All-NFL in his 20 seasons...And it wasn't as if he went unnoticed. The guy right next to him, Alan Page, was a 6 time first team All-Pro at DT, went to 9 Pro Bowls and was a league MVP and Defensive POY to boot. The DE on the opposite side of Marshall was Carl Eller, who went to 6 Pro Bowls and was a 4-time All-NFL selection...So the eyes were on the Vikings defense, and while Marshall was a solid player who never missed a game, he wasn't considered a dominant force... And was actually the 3rd best player on his own Defensive Line...He's also had his chances as a HOF finalist and didnt get the votes. Personally i dont see him ever going in, and if he does, his HOF speech will consist of explaining how/why he ran a fumble back in the wrong direction...lol...Longevity alone doesnt make a HOF player...Needs to have a defining moment as well as be a standout amongst his peers at the time he was playing.
Just my opinion of course,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>IMO, if I had to pick 3 from Jasons list. I go with Marshall, Nobis, and Tinglehoff. >>
My top 3 would be Cliff Harris, Tinglehoff and Nobis...Great minds think alike!!lol
Want some other strong candidates who I think are HOF caliber but weren't Senior Finalists this year???
Jack Butler(the Ronnie Lott of the 50s)
Chris Hanburger (I actually rate him above Nobis as the top Seniors LB, guy was a machine and could cover!!!)
Jerry Kramer (already had a shot as a Senior, but was snubbed again..Probably never gets in, a shame)
Johnny Robinson(yes an AFL guy, but just as important to the 60's Chiefs as Bobby Bell or Buck Buchanan)
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Chad
I agree too. Kramer should have been in by now.
I guess I have a soft spot for Marshall. Even though he never received the props and awards that Page and Eller got, I still believe he was just as great. I really feel he is Hall worthy just based on his consecutive games streak and longevity. Unlike baseball where someone can be above average, "hang around" the game for 20 seasons and compile some decent stats (J. Kaat, D. Sutton, T. John). In football you either can play or you can't. Especially at the defensive/offensive line positions, there are more intangibles than say at LB, RB or any of the stat positions. JUst my opinion.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I agree on Jerry Kramer, he should be in.
I agree too. Kramer should have been in by now.
I guess I have a soft spot for Marshall. Even though he never received the props and awards that Page and Eller got, I still believe he was just as great. I really feel he is Hall worthy just based on his consecutive games streak and longevity. Unlike baseball where someone can be above average, "hang around" the game for 20 seasons and compile some decent stats (J. Kaat, D. Sutton, T. John). In football you either can play or you can't. Especially at the defensive/offensive line positions, there are more intangibles than say at LB, RB or any of the stat positions. JUst my opinion. >>
Well, you do have Blanda in on longevity alone...Take 5 years off his long career and he's not in the HOF right now...I wouldn't complain if Jim Marshall went in..But, to me he's a notch below a Carl Eller or Jack Youngblood, and a few notches below a Reggie White or Deacon Jones at DE..I guess it all boils down to where you draw the line at HOFer/not-HOFer..I think my line is fairly consistent with the HOF voters..The've left a few out that are deserving, and put a few in that probably aren't..But you can't put everyone in, or it diminishes the accomplishment..And you don't want to be too harsh and keep players out that were truly dominant. I can't label Marshall as a dominant player. He was solid, had some FLASHES of dominance, but nothing like the guys I mentioned above.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I think Kramer's biggest problem is that he is a Packer from the 60's which might be David Robinson's problem as well. There are 10 (unless I am missing someone) not including Vince from the teams of the 60's already in the HOF. >>
Agreed..LC Greenwood and Donnie Shell running into the same problem...
For Robinson, if you forget about what team he played for and just match him up with other eligible LBs from that era, would you honestly put him 1st in that line? I can see one or maybe 2 of these Senior LBs getting in down the road, but for me Robinson wasn't better than Hanburger or Nobis..I mean its not even close...He didnt have the ballhawking skills of Hanburger, and wasn't the tackling machine/disruptive force that Nobis was...He was a good player on a great team...And i doubt the voters put in 4-5 LBs from that time frame, especially since Dave Wilcox already got in as a Senior from the late 60s-early 70s era...
Wil be interesting to watch as time goes on...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
For example if Art Monk wanst that worthy to be elected a HOFer for the last few years how does his case get any better. I understand the arguement about that the game changes. But if people passed him up for other people when he first came out, how does he stand a chance now? He hasnt caught anymore passes.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Someone mentioned on the Baseball HOF thread that you either a HOFer when you retire or not. I am not sure what some of the Sr. Nominee's due other than to make each years class around 4-5 people. Some of these players have been eligible for decades and havent been enshrined yet. The HOF is like everything else; Pro-Bowl, All-Pro's, MVP's, All Decade Teams...people deserving are always left out. But generally those that are the most worthly are always included.
For example if Art Monk wanst that worthy to be elected a HOFer for the last few years how does his case get any better. I understand the arguement about that the game changes. But if people passed him up for other people when he first came out, how does he stand a chance now? He hasnt caught anymore passes. >>
I think what can change are the minds of the voters. When the voters get together each year to vote on the finalists, they pose arguements for and against most of the candidates..Obviously someone like Jerry Rice or Dan Marino needs no explanation, but guys like Rayfield Wright or Art Monk that are borderline get debated. Maybe the previous years of hearing the case FOR Monk will change those last few voters minds and he gets in.
They are also constricted to a max of 6..So if, like last year, there are more than 6 strong candidates, all of them can't get in.
I'm thankful they have the Senior process, because it gives a chance for some of the older guys, who SHOULD already be in the HOF, to get their name back into the debate..Unlike baseball, football only has a handful of voters..One or 2 guys votes can make the difference between a guy getting elected or not...
IMO, there are a handful of guys in the HOF that don't belong, as well as a handful of guys that aren't in that do belong...They aren't going to vote anyone OUT of the HOF, but why not debate some of the guys that maybe some of the current voters have never had a chance to vote on? The voters today arent the same ones who were voting 30 years ago...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:
Fred Dean - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers
Richard Dent - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Gene Hickerson - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns
Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys
Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins
Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans
Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles
Andre Reed - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Charlie Sanders - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions
Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006
Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs
Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins
Andre Tippett - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots
Roger Wehrli - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals
Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos
More interestingly, here are the guys who didn't make the cut from 27/17:
Terrell Davis-I think this really hurts his chances down the road
Dermontti Dawson-Up against a ton of O-Lineman. I think he'll get his chances down the road, he was dominant.
Randy Gradishar-Next year will be his last as a Modern candidate and will be in a long list of Senior Candidate LBs.
Kevin Greene-Long shot to ever get in, but once Derrick Thomas gets in, there are no NEW HOF caliber LBs coming up for at least 5 years
Charles Haley-Longshot to ever make it, but if Dent gets in will help his case
Lester Hayes-Darrell Green, Aeneas Williams and Deion Sanders coming soon to the list, his chances are about gone
Randall McDaniel- Didnt expect him to make the HOF first ballot, but how was he not chosen over say Fred Dean or Andre Tippet as a finalist? He will eventually get in
Art Model-Too disliked for the Cleveland move
Ken Stabler-With no solid HOF QB candidates coming in for the next 5 years at least, Stabler might get a shot next year or 2009 (his last as a modern candidate)
George Young-???
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Fred Dean - Have PSA 9
Richard Dent - Have PSA 8, looking for PSA 9
Russ Grimm - Guard - Have PSA 9
Ray Guy - Punter - Nothing - looking for a PSA 8
Gene Hickerson - Have PSA 8
Michael Irvin - Have PSA 9, looking for PSA 10
Bob Kuechenberg - Have PSA 8
Bruce Matthews - Have PSA 10
Art Monk - Have PSA 9
Andre Reed - Have PSA 9
Charlie Sanders - Have PSA 9
Paul Tagliabue - N/A
Derrick Thomas - Have PSA 8, looking for PSA 10
Thurman Thomas - Have PSA 10
Andre Tippett - Have PSA 9
Roger Wehrli - Have PSA 8
Gary Zimmerman - Have PSA 9
How about everyone else?
Greg M.
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Greg M.
TROY AIKMAN
HARRY CARSON7
L.C. Greenwood6
Russ Grimm2
Claude Humphrey3
Michael Irvin2
Bob Kuechenberg5
JOHN MADDEN2
Art Monk6
WARREN MOON
Derrick Thomas2
Thurman Thomas
REGGIE WHITE
RAYFIELD WRIGHT2
Gary Zimmerman3
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Thanks Greg. So is the number next to the name the number of years that player has been a finalist, as of last year? >>
I believe that is correct...
Regards,
Greg M.
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>The whole football HOF voting process just seems weird to me. How does someone like L.C. Greenwood go from a 6-time finalist to off the ballot and then, probably, back on it again. In baseball, there's no surprises. It's very predictable for the non first-time eligibles (for the first-time eligibles too actually). See who came close last year, and there you have it. >>
Then again, the baseball HOF voters won't vote anyone into the hall of fame unless they're an absolute superstar and have been to 15 all star games.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>The whole football HOF voting process just seems weird to me. How does someone like L.C. Greenwood go from a 6-time finalist to off the ballot and then, probably, back on it again. In baseball, there's no surprises. It's very predictable for the non first-time eligibles (for the first-time eligibles too actually). See who came close last year, and there you have it. >>
The only thing I dislike about the football process is that they have only 39 voters...I think the nuber should be at least 100 and should include all the GMs from around the league...
The good thing that they do, is all sit down in a room together and discuss the pros and cons of players careers (to include highlight packages)...Baseball is very informal, with a bunch of media guys sending votes in through the mail..The way the Football HOF handles it allows for guys to have their careers raked over multiple times...You have the obvious first ballot guys, like say a Reggie White, who requires no review to get the votes..But other guys like Rayfield Wright who maybe didn't look so strong last year, maybe one of the voters buts together a top notch argument this year and earns him the votes...
Player evaluation is different for everyone..Shag thinks Barry Sanders and Harold Jackson were the greatest ever at their position, while I whole-heartedly disagree...lol...Opinions of the voting committee are similar, which is why you never know (except for the locks) whos going in from year to year...If no one gets behind Thurman Thomas this year, he could get overlooked again..Someone puches hard for Roger Wehrli he could get his 80% (31 of the 39 votes)...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Shag thinks Barry Sanders and Harold Jackson were the greatest ever at their position, while I whole-heartedly disagree...lol >>
Thanks a lot Jason. Just throw my street cred under the bus. LOL. For the record, my top 4 at both positions:
RB's
1. Jim Brown
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Emmitt Smith
WR's
1. Jerry Rice
2. Lance Alworth
3. Don Hutson
4. Cris Carter