Home PSA Set Registry Forum

Official Football HOF Rookies Thread**********************************************

12223252728208

Comments

  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    You can now add Dermontti Dawson to the Modern set...

    Marc, try your Little RC. You may have to e-mail Cosetta the cert# if it still not working.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • Jason:

    Thank you.

    Marc
    Have shine box will travel
    ------------
    BOBBY ORR
    THE BEST THERE WAS!
    THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
    ------------
  • Most of you old timers to these boards may recall a few years back i had to form a FEAR THE FUZZ club do to the never say die attitude The fuzz has when it comes to compeating against him on any set he is working on.

    Well when it comes to these HOF Rookies and the 2 new sets we all know about Jon and mosh but yet we not forget about the very quiet king of the set MR JASP HIMSELF !!!!!! Yes our very own mr nice guy Jason.

    This guy is a monster, not long ago he was done, having sold many key cards and saying all the right things like i just hope to get back to the top 5 or so SOMEDAY.

    Well someday is here already, Where does this guy find all these cards ? Every time i look his set is updated.
    All i can say in honor of the holiday is when we started this set ,We awoke a sleeping giant

    Hats off Jason i am glad i dont collect this set because you are a force i dont want to tangle with image

    DID I mention his set is back to 4th all time again hmmmmmmmmm MOVE OVER MOSH
  • AlanAllenAlanAllen Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Most of you old timers to these boards may recall a few years back i had to form a FEAR THE FUZZ club do to the never say die attitude The fuzz has when it comes to compeating against him on any set he is working on.

    Well when it comes to these HOF Rookies and the 2 new sets we all know about Jon and mosh but yet we not forget about the very quiet king of the set MR JASP HIMSELF !!!!!! Yes our very own mr nice guy Jason.

    This guy is a monster, not long ago he was done, having sold many key cards and saying all the right things like i just hope to get back to the top 5 or so SOMEDAY.

    Well someday is here already, Where does this guy find all these cards ? Every time i look his set is updated.
    All i can say in honor of the holiday is when we started this set ,We awoke a sleeping giant

    Hats off Jason i am glad i dont collect this set because you are a force i dont want to tangle with image

    DID I mention his set is back to 4th all time again hmmmmmmmmm MOVE OVER MOSH >>



    There might be people as passionate about their set as Jason, but no one more passionate.

    Joe

    p.s. might
    No such details will spoil my plans...
  • I love the USPS!!!!!! 17 packages today. That is a new personal record. I think I have a problem.
    Collector of NFL HOF RC's & Brian Urlacher
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Most of you old timers to these boards may recall a few years back i had to form a FEAR THE FUZZ club do to the never say die attitude The fuzz has when it comes to compeating against him on any set he is working on.

    Well when it comes to these HOF Rookies and the 2 new sets we all know about Jon and mosh but yet we not forget about the very quiet king of the set MR JASP HIMSELF !!!!!! Yes our very own mr nice guy Jason.

    This guy is a monster, not long ago he was done, having sold many key cards and saying all the right things like i just hope to get back to the top 5 or so SOMEDAY.

    Well someday is here already, Where does this guy find all these cards ? Every time i look his set is updated.
    All i can say in honor of the holiday is when we started this set ,We awoke a sleeping giant

    Hats off Jason i am glad i dont collect this set because you are a force i dont want to tangle with image

    DID I mention his set is back to 4th all time again hmmmmmmmmm MOVE OVER MOSH >>



    I'm just a little fish trying to swim with the sharks..lol

    But guys like Art M. and Joe T. always hook me up and point me to cards that I need along the way..Without fellow collector's who share my passion for the cards and for the game of football I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am now...And that is why I try and return the favor by helping out others where I can in the pursuit of their own set.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭
    Jason has been a huge help for me in just starting this set. I am buying PSA 3's and 4's of cards most of you have 7's 8's or 9's of. Jason is a class act with a huge wallet. LOL

    Good luck Jason in getting to the top three, you are close. Me, I'm in 47th but chugging along.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jason has been a huge help for me in just starting this set. I am buying PSA 3's and 4's of cards most of you have 7's 8's or 9's of. Jason is a class act with a huge wallet. LOL

    Good luck Jason in getting to the top three, you are close. Me, I'm in 47th but chugging along. >>



    Huge wallet???Not even..lol

    I'm active duty Army...Working for the govt and having a huge wallet are oxymorons...lol

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've got my snipe set up! How about you guys?? >>



    At least that moron had to pay a ton in listing fees.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • AlanAllenAlanAllen Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭
    I rocketed from 42nd to tied for 39th yesterday by listing a bunch of cards I've had for years image.

    I like this set, but it's more that many of the cards I want happen to be in this set.

    Joe
    No such details will spoil my plans...
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    A couple days without a post. What's wrong with you people?? image

    Anyone going to be submitting under the new June special. I have about 50 cards I've been sitting on (hope I didnt bend them...image) that I'll be sumbitting including about 8-10 Philly cards from the hof or hof senior set.

    Maybe, If I'm lucky, Ill get the grades before the football season kicks off....



    Dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A couple days without a post. What's wrong with you people?? image

    Anyone going to be submitting under the new June special. I have about 50 cards I've been sitting on (hope I didnt bend them...image) that I'll be sumbitting including about 8-10 Philly cards from the hof or hof senior set.

    Maybe, If I'm lucky, Ill get the grades before the football season kicks off....



    Dave >>



    Yep, sure will..Excellent special going all the way back to 1960...for $5 each they can take as long as they want..lol

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭


    << <i>
    Yep, sure will..Excellent special going all the way back to 1960...for $5 each they can take as long as they want..lol

    Jason >>



    Don't worry, I'm sure they will. I am still a bit peeved my order from March hasn't popped yet. It was all stuff for the key card sets. Hand delivered on 3/16 and nada. I probably could have sold some stuff off to pay for the sub and gotten a couple bucks extra being near the reg deadline. Now I have to decide if I want to sned in my 400 card order all at once and try to snake a discount or if I want to break it up into 4 separate 100 card orders.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Don't worry, I'm sure they will. I am still a bit peeved my order from March hasn't popped yet. It was all stuff for the key card sets. Hand delivered on 3/16 and nada. I probably could have sold some stuff off to pay for the sub and gotten a couple bucks extra being near the reg deadline. Now I have to decide if I want to sned in my 400 card order all at once and try to snake a discount or if I want to break it up into 4 separate 100 card orders >>



    What would be the advantage of splitting the order up? I would have to pay 4 times for shipping.

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>
    Yep, sure will..Excellent special going all the way back to 1960...for $5 each they can take as long as they want..lol

    Jason >>



    Don't worry, I'm sure they will. I am still a bit peeved my order from March hasn't popped yet. It was all stuff for the key card sets. Hand delivered on 3/16 and nada. I probably could have sold some stuff off to pay for the sub and gotten a couple bucks extra being near the reg deadline. Now I have to decide if I want to sned in my 400 card order all at once and try to snake a discount or if I want to break it up into 4 separate 100 card orders. >>



    I just check all the orders and nothing yet. I don't think they're grading today...I think they're at a show this weekend (Long Beach). Great - I'm so miffed that my orders weren't ready in time for the awards. Unreal - if they wouldn't have taken 2 1/2 weeks to enter the orders the 45 business days would have been up last week.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭


    << <i>
    I just check all the orders and nothing yet. I don't think they're grading today...I think they're at a show this weekend (Long Beach). Great - I'm so miffed that my orders weren't ready in time for the awards. Unreal - if they wouldn't have taken 2 1/2 weeks to enter the orders the 45 business days would have been up last week.

    Regards,

    Greg M. >>



    Grumble...Grumble...Grumble

    I've sent two emails to Benny (CSR @ PSA) one last one, one this week and got no replies at all. I too am very bitter.



    Dave: My thinking is that you avoid the G.O.D. by submitting the orders in several lots as opposed to all in one. Thereby not getting hammered on 400+ cards and instead, getting hammered only on one or two of the submissions. It is more expensive, both in return shipping and by not being able to get a "Deal" on a bigger sub, but if I get 9's on cards that should be 10's, that is far more costly. That's the theory anyway. image

    I'll have to price it out and see how it works out. Anyone else have a 50+ card order they could send in? I know Mike has a large lot and Greg had a hundred or so. Maybe we could pool up and get a better deal. <shrug>

    -Josh
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    My last order was a modern bulk sub and it only took 2 weeks to get the grades back..I guess as always it is hit or miss...One of these days they've GOT to streamline their inprocessing...I never understood how one order can go in LATER and be graded SOONER on the exact same service level..Just makes no sense...

    Sent my subs today...10 card $13/5 day sub and a 26 card/$5 special sub...Basically everything I have right now..With the special only requiring 10 cards minimum, I plan on sending in a couple more by the end of the month..I've got to find some more gradable cards first...lol

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • Dave,
    Envoy is right on in his splitting 'em up advice. I have a large group of cards I bought slabbed. All straight from vending all as 8's. I have resubmitted a few of these several times in small groups. Always picking high end 8's that I thought could be 9's. In this set the difference in price between an 8 and a 9 can be substantial. It never fails that a few come back in 9's most 8's and a couple as 7's. I have a small pile that will have to be cracked and resub'd again to see if the 7's can be 8's again. To maximize this correctly, you need to have each card in the best holder it deserves to be in. But financially, I am well ahead on the deal.
    One of my first subs was a 200 card submission. Some were high quality some were thrown in to have a slabbed copy to complete the set for upgrades later. Many 6's and 7's that should live in 8 holders. A few 8's that should live in 9 holders. It would cost $1K under special to "fix" this.
    Grading is subjective, we will not all agree all the time. It takes one G. O. D. experience to decide that the extra shipping and extra trips to the post office my be worth it. Hopefully it will not happen to you. For some of us the extra shipping is just insurance.
    Fuzz
    Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Maybe I should change my way of thinking but I must be "old school". I believe that a card will receive the correct grade whether you send it by itself or whether its in a 1000 card submission....


    Anyway, here is a raw card pickup. I'm hoping for a 7 to replace my 3.


    image

    Dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Dave, unfortunately, card grading is subjective and cards don't always end up in their best holder right away. Now, whether or not that has anything to do with breaking a submission up or not can be debated. Personally, I've had some submissions I felt got hammered and others that did a little better than I expected. The idea behind splitting up the subs is to try and get minimize the chance you have of getting the infamous "Grader of death" and having him/her hammer a large sub vs a smaller one. It might just be superstition, I'm not sure but I'm willing to go with it.

    Nice St. Clair by the way. image Where do you keep finding these nice raw vintage cards?
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice St. Clair by the way. Where do you keep finding these nice raw vintage cards? >>



    Most from ebay...

    Heres a Hickerson that should pull an 8..




    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Well that would be a nice pickup! I bought two Hickerson's of ebay. One got a 7, the other a 4 (not sure why I even got it holdered). That azestatesales guy got me for $15 on an absolute piece of crap. Guess you have to get in early with him. Anyway, glad to see you are picking up some nice looking cards. I haven't been so lucky on there recently.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe I should change my way of thinking but I must be "old school". I believe that a card will receive the correct grade whether you send it by itself or whether its in a 1000 card submission....


    Anyway, here is a raw card pickup. I'm hoping for a 7 to replace my 3.


    image

    Dave >>


    That's is the nicest St. Clair rc that I've ever seen!! Where did you find it and how much did you pay for it?

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well that would be a nice pickup! I bought two Hickerson's of ebay. One got a 7, the other a 4 (not sure why I even got it holdered). That azestatesales guy got me for $15 on an absolute piece of crap. Guess you have to get in early with him. Anyway, glad to see you are picking up some nice looking cards. I haven't been so lucky on there recently. >>



    Aztecsales sells nothing but crap. Do'nt even bother.

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That's is the nicest St. Clair rc that I've ever seen!! Where did you find it and how much did you pay for it? >>



    I don't know about the nicest, but looks better than EX-Mt that was listed.

    Ebay.........

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Aztecsales sells nothing but crap. Do'nt even bother. >>



    Lol....I remember you guys telling me that when I bought my other Hickerson. It came back an 8 and currently belongs to Joe Squires...Pubilus

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Dave,

    As you well know, St. Clair is extremely tough to find higher than EX+ to EXMT. Great pickup! By the way, Is the Hickerson you just bought from the large run that was recently on E-Bay? If so, I was one of the underbidders. I had bid up to $40 on the Hickerson and Howley but did win 10+ other cards very cheaply. I received them on Thursday and was generally impressed. Most will nicely sit in PSA 8 holders.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Yes, the Hickerson was from ebay a week or 2 ago. I think I paid 46-48 for it.

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Question for Jason or anyone else. I was looking through the NFL stat book and noticed that Ken Riley is #5 in the all time interception list. Does anyone know why he was never voted to a pro bowl or ever been mentioned in the HOF voting?

    Also, I was watching the story of the 72 and 73 Dolphins and I have to say that Csonka was an absolute beast. I loved how he would throw an elbow at the tackler and usually knock the DB or LB backwards. Just amazing.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Another new one for the Sr.'s set

    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Nice looking 7. Aside from the centering, it looks more like an 8. Another raw find? image
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭
    Hi Guys,

    I am going to list my SR and Modern HOF Wannabe sets this week. I saw that Tomlinson's card is the Topps Chrome. That is the card we will put in the HOF Rookie set if he makes it? Did we already vote on that or did I miss it.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Yes it is. It's the most valuable (non-autographed, non-short printed) version.
  • wolfbearwolfbear Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭

    Any ideas what this will end up going for?

    image

    eBay linky dink

    Pix of 'My Kids'

    "How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    ooh, that's a beauty! No idea what it'll go for...$1400? $1800? More?
  • PubliusPublius Posts: 1,306 ✭✭

    Wow, that is a nice card.

    I imagine there will be alot of fireworks for it.

    joe
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice looking 7. Aside from the centering, it looks more like an 8. Another raw find? >>



    Nope, not this one. It was bought as a 7.



    That Dawson is killer......That has your name on it Paul....GO for it...
    LOL


    dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Any ideas what this will end up going for? >>



    If anyone here wins the Dawson 9, and is upgrading from an 8, I'd be interested in buying the 8.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    If I hadn't just bought some other stuff, I could have snagged that PSA 8 Dawson that just sold for the $349 opening bid. I did get a PSA 8 Charley Taylor, PSA 7 Willie Brown and PSA 8 Bobby Bell though, which were all nice additions to my set. Thanks Jamey. image

    Those 63 Fleers are some great looking cards.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    From my recent submission:

    Some I'm keeping, some are for sale. PM me if interested in anything.

    Regards,

    Greg M.

    9 40556203 1964 TOPPS 90 BOBBY BELL N/A 8
    10 40556204 1964 PHILADELPHIA 71 HERB ADDERLY N/A 7
    11 40556205 1964 PHILADELPHIA 3 JOHN MACKEY N/A 7
    16 40556210 1964 TOPPS 93 ED BUDDE N/A 8
    17 40556211 1976 TOPPS 257 RANDY GRADISHAR N/A 9
    23 40556217 1985 TOPPS 24 RICHARD DENT ALL PRO 8
    24 40556218 1985 TOPPS 251 WARREN MOON N/A 8
    25 40556219 1990 ACTION PACKED 46 SHANNON SHARPE ROOKIE UPDATE 9
    26 40556220 1990 ACTION PACKED 46 SHANNON SHARPE ROOKIE UPDATE 9
    27 40556221 1989 SCORE 407S NEIL SMITH SUPPLEMENTAL 10
    28 40556222 1989 SCORE 333S STERLING SHARPE SUPPLEMENTAL 9
    29 40556223 1989 SCORE 333S STERLING SHARPE SUPPLEMENTAL 10
    30 40556224 1989 SCORE 380S ERIC ALLEN SUPPLEMENTAL 9
    31 40556225 1989 SCORE 384S BO JACKSON SUPPLEMENTAL 9
    32 40556226 1993 SP 9 DREW BLEDSOE FOIL 9
    33 40556227 1993 SP 211 LARRY CENTERS N/A 10
    34 40556228 1993 SP 211 LARRY CENTERS N/A 10
    35 40556229 1996 BOWMAN'S BEST 164 RAY LEWIS N/A 10
    36 40556230 1996 BOWMAN'S BEST 162 TEDY BRUSCHI N/A 9
    38 40556232 1997 SP AUTHENTIC 25 COREY DILLON N/A 9
    39 40556233 1997 SP AUTHENTIC 186 RONDE BARBER N/A 9
    40 40556234 1991 SCORE 94T AENEAS WILLIAMS SUPPLEMENTAL 9
    41 40556235 1991 SCORE 94T AENEAS WILLIAMS SUPPLEMENTAL 10
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Some pretty nice grades there. Did those pop yesterday or today?
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Josh,

    They popped about an hour ago. Not too bad...although I'm dissapointed w/ the Adderley and Mackey. Both should be 8's. Both were bought raw and I cracked the Mackey out because it graded a 7 in the last submission. The centering is perfect, but the corners are a tad soft. Still a nice low end to mid 8.

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Ah. I would crack out this Jackie Smith we just had graded for you as well. I compared it to my 7 and to many of my 8's and it stacks up very well. Still confused how it got a 6. Anyway, fingers crossed for more poppage today. image
  • nearmintnearmint Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    Don't buy this one.
    image
    I asked the seller for a scan of the whole card, and he responded


    << <i>Scan shows the whole card. >>


    He has a few more rookies for sale, too.
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    lol - that's funny because I e-mailed him and he hasn't responded. I'm guessing it's not in NM condition image

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
  • Anyone looking for a 1948 Leaf Sammy Baugh PSA 5--

    I have one available $275 dlvd.

    Edit: e-mail me at mwmoore808@hotmail.com if interested.
  • I was thinking today that it's a shame that Bill Willis didn't have a regular edition card during his playing days. Does anyone know the story behind that? Can anyone think of other players that played during the Bowman era or later that don't have a card?
Sign In or Register to comment.