Great and respectful debate! Another impressive stat in favor of Gore's candidacy that makes him better than a coin flip IMO: The top 12 career yards from scrimmage leaders are currently in the Hall of Fame (Fitzgerald will make 13 when he hangs them up). Gore is currently 7th on that list and will likely move to 5th by the end of the season. As documented above, this isn't just a matter of increased touches. His YPC is as good or better than many other modern day HOFers.
Gore's longevity shouldn't be a detractor from his consideration, but an argument for it. Every year teams are brining new guys in to replace him, but he keeps finding his way onto squads and is productive. He is very well respected among his peers too, which will help once his name comes up in the conversation.
I think part of this argument is not all HOFers are from the same mold.
Ralph Sampson is no Michael Jordan. George Kell is no Joe DiMaggio, Nobody here in this discussion is a Jim Brown.
For me a HOFer has to have a "WOW" factor. Maybe not as much as Barry Sanders.
Longevity is part of the equation. I know Don Mattingly would be in the BB HOF if he had longevity like Jeter.
Gore id definitely approaching the point where either or both production and longevity gets him serous HOF consideration despite IMO having no "WOW" factor.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Fair points. Now go look at games played for those players. For Faulk and Thomas rushing yards per game a bit misleading when comparing resumes as they put up so many more yards receiving.
Allen, Harris and Riggins all Super Bowl MVPs. So again, a bit misleading to compare them that way. The HOF voters have shown they certainly don't only look at one or two things when making comparisons.
I think you are missing the negatives to Gore's candidacy. Short of first ballot lock players, it doesn't take many negatives to get a guy pushed out of the top 5 Modern candidates in most years. Gore has big numbers due to big number of games played. He has none of the top selling accolades that tend to beat out negatives. Like All Decade or All Pro selections. Or things like Super Bowl MVPs. He's not going to be elected simply based off of his finishing numbers. Because voters who are pushing for other candidates are going to ask where are his accolades? Why wasn't he ever considered the best or even second best at some point in his career at his position in an era that didn't produce very many HOF caliber RBs?
I think he's accumulated enough that he will likely be in the conversation. Be a top 25 semi finalist. Maybe be a top 15 finalist at some point. But it's impossible to determine or predict what happens with his candidacy. Compare his overall career with guys Ike Tiki Barber or Fred Taylor, and IMO that's the category he falls in to, if he can add the 100 TDs then he would move closer to Ed James category.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think when longevity becomes a detractor is when the arguement for the players induction is how big their numbers are.
Yards per game IS a good stat to use to compare guys. Especially ones with overlapping careers and no big career accolades. If I'm a voter I'd be asking for whoever is presenting Gore to explain to me the differences between Gore, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson. These guys aren't even getting close to the top 25 in any given year yet Gore is a top 5 candidate? IMO that's a tough case to make.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
I think when longevity becomes a detractor is when the arguement for the players induction is how big their numbers are.
Yards per game IS a good stat to use to compare guys. Especially ones with overlapping careers and no big career accolades. If I'm a voter I'd be asking for whoever is presenting Gore to explain to me the differences between Gore, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson. These guys aren't even getting close to the top 25 in any given year yet Gore is a top 5 candidate? IMO that's a tough case to make.
It actually is a pretty easy case. Each of those backs would be in the discussion if they could of played longer and been just as productive. As was previously stated Gore's durability should not be discounted. His yards per carry, yards per game, and total touchdowns are well within the already unwritten standards of the Hall of Fame. I don't see how the voters neglect him with his combination of career totals and per game and per year averages.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
@JasP24 said:
I think when longevity becomes a detractor is when the arguement for the players induction is how big their numbers are.
Yards per game IS a good stat to use to compare guys. Especially ones with overlapping careers and no big career accolades. If I'm a voter I'd be asking for whoever is presenting Gore to explain to me the differences between Gore, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson. These guys aren't even getting close to the top 25 in any given year yet Gore is a top 5 candidate? IMO that's a tough case to make.
It actually is a pretty easy case. Each of those backs would be in the discussion if they could of played longer and been just as productive. As was previously stated Gore's durability should not be discounted. His yards per carry, yards per game, and total touchdowns are well within the already unwritten standards of the Hall of Fame. I don't see how the voters neglect him with his combination of career totals and per game and per year averages.
Unfortunately, there are no "unwritten rules" except that players with numbers, who don't have the accolades have a tough time making the HOF.
To understand the difference, simply compare these players and find the differences in their career numbers and accolades...
Frank Gore- 70.9 rush yards per game, 95 TDs, 202 career games..5xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade
Non-HOFers
Ed James- 82.7 YPG, 91 TDs, 148 career games...4 Pro Bowl, 1xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, Off ROY, FIRST TEAM ALL-DECADE...Ben eligible for 4 years, has only made the cut to 15 twice..Never cut to 10 or 5...
Fred Taylor, 76.4 YPG, 74 TDs, 153 career games...1xPro Bowl, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade...Has been eligible for 3 years, has never made the top 25...
Steven Jackson, 71.5 YPG, 78 TDs, 160 career games...3xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade....Not yet eligible, but would be shocked to see him ever make the top 25
Corey Dillon, 74.9 YPG, 89 TDs, 150 career games...4xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 1xSB Ring, No Accolades or All-Decade...Has been eligible for 7 years and has never made the top 25...
Ricky Watters, 73.9 YPG, 91 TDs, 144 career games...5xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 1xSB Ring, No Accolades or All-Decade..Has been eligible for 12 years and has never made the top 25
So the ONLY difference between these 5 guys and Gore is that Gore played longer...Anywhere between 40-58 more games, thats 2-3 seasons longer..Thats 2-3 more seasons to add Pro Bowls, All-Pros, SB Rings, Accolades, TDs, improve YPG...He wasn't any better than any of these guys, he was just able to stay healthy enough to play 2-3 more seasons...
The ONLY guy on the list with All-Decade resume is James...Not surprisingly, he's also the only one from the list to get ANY support from the voters, and he still hasnt been able to crack the top 10 yet....
I guess my confusion here is that somehow, these guys are 0% deserving according to the voters, yet Gore has an ease case to be made and a better than 50/50 shot at making the HOF simply because he played 2-3 years longer...Never actually played BETTER...While I think his HUGE accumulation of numbers is the only reason he is even in the discussion, its certainly not going to rubber stamp him to Canton..Anyone who believes that has not followed HOF voting patterns over the years...Numbers are not the easy path to Canton...And when big accumulations of numbers occur simply due to big number of games played, its going to be a VERY tough case.
Sorry...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Next year will be tough for the holdovers with Gonzalez, Reed and Bailey all first-round locks. I'll go with:
Gonzalez
Reed
Bailey
Boselli
James
I think that last spot could go to any number of players. Lynch is most deserving IMO, but would the HOF elect 3 DBs in the same class? Highly unlikely. I like Faneca, Hutchinson and Mawae, but Boselli seems to have leapfrogged all of them and I don't see 2 OL going in the same class. Bruce and Holt are also interesting candidates for that last spot.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Tony Gonzalez
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Tony Boselli
Steve Hutchinson
Tough to imagine Gonzalez or Reed not going in first ballot, I think they are 100% locks..Champ Bailey, I'd put very close to that, but more of a 90% chance...Very unlikely but wouldn't be completely shocked to see him bumped a year. The last 2 spots will be interesting. We have 4 OL who have been very close the past couple of years...2 years ago Boselli and Mawae made the cut to 10 while Faneca did not. Last year Faneca joined them along with another 1st year eligible Steve Hutchinson, all made the cut to 10 yet no OL's made the HOF...
This is what leads me to believe we will get two OL this year. Boselli being the only Tackle among these guys seems to have the clearest path. With Hutchinson jumping to the top 10 his first year eligible would seem to suggest he is the best of the interior OL, as neither Faneca or Mawae made the top 10 in their first try. ALthough all of these O Linemen are 1st Team All-Decade players.
I believe Law, Lynch and James are the only other strong candidates, with all others as outside wildcards.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Tony Gonzalez, TE; Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Falcons
Isaac Bruce, WR; Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams and San Francisco 49ers
Edgerrin James, RB; Indianapolis Colts, Arizona Cardinals and Seattle Seahawks
Ed Reed, S; Baltimore Ravens, Houston Texans and New York Jets
Steve Atwater, S; Denver Broncos and New York Jets
Champ Bailey, CB; Washington and Denver Broncos
Ty Law, CB; New England Patriots, New York Jets, Kansas City Chiefs and Denver Broncos
John Lynch, S; Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos
Tony Boselli, OT; Jacksonville Jaguars and Houston Texans
Steve Hutchinson, G; Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Tennessee Titans
Alan Faneca, G; Pittsburgh Steelers, New York Jets and Arizona Cardinals
Kevin Mawae, C/G; Seattle Seahawks, New York Jets and Tennessee Titans
Richard Seymour, DE/DT; New England Patriots and Oakland Raiders
Don Coryell, Coach; St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers
Tom Flores, Coach; Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders and Seattle Seahawks
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
TY Joe
Personally I wouldn't vote for either.
I have listened to all the speeches and accolades by Madden, Gibbs and Fouts…..
How they wouldn't be who they are (and in the HOF) without D.C.
I understand he helped change the game.
However professional sports is all about winning. Winning championships.
All the great coaches did that. If not they had a good W/L record.
So whatever D.C. did and how he did it never translated into success. Sure throw the ball 50 times a game and your
QB will lead the NFL in passing yards for 4 years and you will get recognition as a great passer and a few players will make the HOF but I am sure Fouts would trade passing titles for just one Lombardi.
Flores inherited a pretty good team from Madden. The Raiders had some great players in his tenure.
Not sure if his 2X SB wins were due to coaching or talent. Both?
On the other hand we "experts" claim Eli Manning is a hofer due to 2X SB wins based on the Future RC set.
For the record I will absolutely Puke if he does.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Tony Gonzalez and Ed Reed, 100% locks...See no path that doesn't include these 2 in the Class..
Champ Bailey..90% chance...With the Patriots once again in the SB, Ty Law could conceivably find his way into the class..Most likely would be at the expense of Champ.
Steve Hutchinson and Tony Boselli...60-70%...With 4 O Lineman in the top 10 last year, they are all 4 likely going to be back in the top 10 this year...I believe the committee will place a premium on getting the top 2 into the HOF...Hutch and Boselli seem to have the most support heading into the meeting...Faneca and Mawae could easily repleace one of both, but I think they end up waiting another year or two...
Others I see making the cut to 10 this year (aside from Ty Law, Faneca and Mawae are Edgerrin James and Isaac Bruce...With the Rams in Atlanta, Could see Bruce getting a big push, but with two WRs and no OL going in last year, I think he wont quite make the final cutdown to 5...James being the only RB even in the top 25, I think this is a year he can get one step closer making it to the top 10, but would be a tough to leapfrog into one of the 5 slots...30-40% odds on these guys who make the cut to 10...
Lastly the longshots...
John Lynch..20%...Dropped out of the top 10 last year after twice making it to 10...Add to that Reed this year and Polomalu up next year, and I think he's going to be waiting a few more years...
Richard Seymour..20%..Patriots pedigree will add a few votes, like Ty Law, but wouldnt think they'd put two Patriots in, and Law has been in front of Seymour..
Tom Flores..10%...If there is a wildcard guy this year, its obviously Flores..His first time in the room, stranger things have happened...lol
Don Coryell and Steve At-water...0%...Just don't see any path for these 2 in 2019..
See what happens tomorrow!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think Hutchinson is the most likely player to get in if Boselli or Edge do not.
Jason, do you think Polamalu will go in first ballot? Obviously a great player, but he also had trouble staying on the field. I'd still say yes. Curious what your take is. I believe Polamalu is the only first-time eligible player with a realistic chance next year, which could also help his cause.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Troy might have to face Atwater and lynch for next year Plus leftovers from this year.
Does Patrick Willis have enough??
Ill stick to my original 4 plus Flores
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think Hutchinson is the most likely player to get in if Boselli or Edge do not.
Jason, do you think Polamalu will go in first ballot? Obviously a great player, but he also had trouble staying on the field. I'd still say yes. Curious what your take is. I believe Polamalu is the only first-time eligible player with a realistic chance next year, which could also help his cause.
Yes I think Troy P will be first ballot next year..But the only first ballot guy next year..
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
My WAY too early prediction for the 2020 HOF class:
Polamalu
Boselli
Edge
Lynch
Hutchinson
As for the seniors, I'd like to see Howley and Walls (no, I'm not a Cowboys fan), but I have no idea who'll get picked. I remember Andy Russell getting a big push last year. Wouldn't mind seeing him grab one of those spots.
Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, head coaches should be voted on separately from players. You just can't compare them.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I would love to know the mind-altering gas that got pumped into the voter room - to put Mawae in over Edge, Hutchinson or Boselli. Sure, he was a good player and big with the Union but please ..... Not as bad as putting Jerra in but very questionable IMO
Troy Polamalu
Steve Hutchinson
Tony Boselli
Edgerrin James
Richard Seymour
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Mawae was a little surprise. Not in my top 5.
I guess we will have to add J. Edelman to the future RC HOF set now. he he
SB commercials really sucked. Except Verizon honoring 1st responders.
What a masterpiece by Belicheck as the Pats had Goff confused the whole game.
IMO Tony Rom was a very good QB but is one of the best ever in the booth.
I enjoy him as much as the game.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I'm not sure why Mawae was a surprise. His 7 first team all-pro selections were more than any other finalist including Hutchinson (5), James (2) and Boselli (3)... He was also an all-decade performer just like those other three.
Mawae only had 3 First Team All-Pros. Yeah, the All Decade team and that does seem to be a magic bullet for the HOF. Just don't think he's the same caliber as the other HOF Centers.
@Pinkcatfish said:
Mawae only had 3 First Team All-Pros. Yeah, the All Decade team and that does seem to be a magic bullet for the HOF. Just don't think he's the same caliber as the other HOF Centers.
Just what I was about to post...Not sure where 7 1st team all-pros come from, but he only had 3, Hutchinson had 5...
-Hutchinson was better for longer than Mawae
-Boselli was more dominant at his position, just for a shorter period...
-Class of 2016 voting Faneca made the top 15, Mawae only got votes to 25
-Mawae, in his first 2 years, only made the cut to 25, while Hutchinson made the cut to 10 in his first year of eligibility
All reasons why Mawae was thought by most to be either 3rd or 4th in OL pecking order...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
More surprising to me was 3 DBs and only 1 OL...And At-water leapfrogging Lynch in the cut to 10..Likely a very bad sign for Lynch's candidacy
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Steve Hutchinson
Alan Faneca
Edgerrin James
Steve Atwater
Tony Boselli
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
He’s a lot better on the field than he is in the booth. This’ll restart his HOF clock.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@jay0791 said:
So his 5 year wait is not cumulative??
Nope....5 year clock starts from his final time on an NFL game roster...Deion a recent example...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just hit this in my recent PSA submission. A good friend of mine gave me a little encouragement to send this in and it paid off quite well. Population 2!
I am assuming his card would be topps chrome. He is not even on the future set.
Personally I don't think of him as first ballot.
Did anyone here win the 68 griese psa 9 from pwcc last night.? Adding the PQ added about $500+ to the price for sure. How about the Jim Thorpe or Red Grange RC's? recently.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I personally agree with Jay...not first ballot. Agreed he has the postseason accollades, but with all the other players at his position that have been doing it a lot longer, and retired....then not retired. Idk. Maybe the postseason stuff gets him in first ballot if he TRULY hangs em up and everyone else keeps coming back. We'll see in 5.
I concur on Gronk. I wouldn’t put him in first ballot.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Besides Brady & Belichick - who gets in the HOF from this Dynasty. I can't see any of the receivers other than Gronk. Seymour will probably get there on defense soon. The only other i can think of is Adam Vinatieri. Who am I missing?
I think the real unheralded stars of the Patriots’ dynasty are the O linemen. My goodness, Brady gets forever to throw the ball, and it’s been that way for years. You can say it’s part of the scheme if you like, but a scheme only works when it includes the right players. I’d love to see at least one O lineman, or even the O line coach, get some HOF consideration.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I agree with the forever part as Brady isn't exactly Fran Tarkenton.
Maybe a dumb question...has there ever been a coach elected to the hof that was never a winning head coach?
Also Brady is a great player who has benefited by the rule changes of his time.
When you are in the post season as much as Gronk was you will have any post season records.
Great catch by Gronk or not Edelman won the SB for the Pats last year. Of course the smartest coach of all time doesn't hurt either.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I reviewed the Future HOF set and was wondering what other's thought about Terrell Suggs chances at induction?
In my opinion he has the resume already and is capable of adding to to it with Cardinals pairing with C. Jones.
DROY
DPOY
All Pro
7 Pro Bowls
Super Bowl Champion
132.5 Career Sacks
12.5 Sacks in 18 Post Season Games
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Comments
Great and respectful debate! Another impressive stat in favor of Gore's candidacy that makes him better than a coin flip IMO: The top 12 career yards from scrimmage leaders are currently in the Hall of Fame (Fitzgerald will make 13 when he hangs them up). Gore is currently 7th on that list and will likely move to 5th by the end of the season. As documented above, this isn't just a matter of increased touches. His YPC is as good or better than many other modern day HOFers.
Gore's longevity shouldn't be a detractor from his consideration, but an argument for it. Every year teams are brining new guys in to replace him, but he keeps finding his way onto squads and is productive. He is very well respected among his peers too, which will help once his name comes up in the conversation.
I think part of this argument is not all HOFers are from the same mold.
Ralph Sampson is no Michael Jordan. George Kell is no Joe DiMaggio, Nobody here in this discussion is a Jim Brown.
For me a HOFer has to have a "WOW" factor. Maybe not as much as Barry Sanders.
Longevity is part of the equation. I know Don Mattingly would be in the BB HOF if he had longevity like Jeter.
Gore id definitely approaching the point where either or both production and longevity gets him serous HOF consideration despite IMO having no "WOW" factor.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Fair points. Now go look at games played for those players. For Faulk and Thomas rushing yards per game a bit misleading when comparing resumes as they put up so many more yards receiving.
Allen, Harris and Riggins all Super Bowl MVPs. So again, a bit misleading to compare them that way. The HOF voters have shown they certainly don't only look at one or two things when making comparisons.
I think you are missing the negatives to Gore's candidacy. Short of first ballot lock players, it doesn't take many negatives to get a guy pushed out of the top 5 Modern candidates in most years. Gore has big numbers due to big number of games played. He has none of the top selling accolades that tend to beat out negatives. Like All Decade or All Pro selections. Or things like Super Bowl MVPs. He's not going to be elected simply based off of his finishing numbers. Because voters who are pushing for other candidates are going to ask where are his accolades? Why wasn't he ever considered the best or even second best at some point in his career at his position in an era that didn't produce very many HOF caliber RBs?
I think he's accumulated enough that he will likely be in the conversation. Be a top 25 semi finalist. Maybe be a top 15 finalist at some point. But it's impossible to determine or predict what happens with his candidacy. Compare his overall career with guys Ike Tiki Barber or Fred Taylor, and IMO that's the category he falls in to, if he can add the 100 TDs then he would move closer to Ed James category.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think when longevity becomes a detractor is when the arguement for the players induction is how big their numbers are.
Yards per game IS a good stat to use to compare guys. Especially ones with overlapping careers and no big career accolades. If I'm a voter I'd be asking for whoever is presenting Gore to explain to me the differences between Gore, Fred Taylor and Steven Jackson. These guys aren't even getting close to the top 25 in any given year yet Gore is a top 5 candidate? IMO that's a tough case to make.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It actually is a pretty easy case. Each of those backs would be in the discussion if they could of played longer and been just as productive. As was previously stated Gore's durability should not be discounted. His yards per carry, yards per game, and total touchdowns are well within the already unwritten standards of the Hall of Fame. I don't see how the voters neglect him with his combination of career totals and per game and per year averages.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Unfortunately, there are no "unwritten rules" except that players with numbers, who don't have the accolades have a tough time making the HOF.
To understand the difference, simply compare these players and find the differences in their career numbers and accolades...
Frank Gore- 70.9 rush yards per game, 95 TDs, 202 career games..5xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade
Non-HOFers
Ed James- 82.7 YPG, 91 TDs, 148 career games...4 Pro Bowl, 1xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, Off ROY, FIRST TEAM ALL-DECADE...Ben eligible for 4 years, has only made the cut to 15 twice..Never cut to 10 or 5...
Fred Taylor, 76.4 YPG, 74 TDs, 153 career games...1xPro Bowl, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade...Has been eligible for 3 years, has never made the top 25...
Steven Jackson, 71.5 YPG, 78 TDs, 160 career games...3xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 0xSB Rings, No Accolades or All-Decade....Not yet eligible, but would be shocked to see him ever make the top 25
Corey Dillon, 74.9 YPG, 89 TDs, 150 career games...4xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 1xSB Ring, No Accolades or All-Decade...Has been eligible for 7 years and has never made the top 25...
Ricky Watters, 73.9 YPG, 91 TDs, 144 career games...5xPro Bowls, 0xAll-Pro, 1xSB Ring, No Accolades or All-Decade..Has been eligible for 12 years and has never made the top 25
So the ONLY difference between these 5 guys and Gore is that Gore played longer...Anywhere between 40-58 more games, thats 2-3 seasons longer..Thats 2-3 more seasons to add Pro Bowls, All-Pros, SB Rings, Accolades, TDs, improve YPG...He wasn't any better than any of these guys, he was just able to stay healthy enough to play 2-3 more seasons...
The ONLY guy on the list with All-Decade resume is James...Not surprisingly, he's also the only one from the list to get ANY support from the voters, and he still hasnt been able to crack the top 10 yet....
I guess my confusion here is that somehow, these guys are 0% deserving according to the voters, yet Gore has an ease case to be made and a better than 50/50 shot at making the HOF simply because he played 2-3 years longer...Never actually played BETTER...While I think his HUGE accumulation of numbers is the only reason he is even in the discussion, its certainly not going to rubber stamp him to Canton..Anyone who believes that has not followed HOF voting patterns over the years...Numbers are not the easy path to Canton...And when big accumulations of numbers occur simply due to big number of games played, its going to be a VERY tough case.
Sorry...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
25 semi finalists announced. My gut predictions:
Gonzalez
Reed
Bailey
James
Faneca
Next year will be tough for the holdovers with Gonzalez, Reed and Bailey all first-round locks. I'll go with:
Gonzalez
Reed
Bailey
Boselli
James
I think that last spot could go to any number of players. Lynch is most deserving IMO, but would the HOF elect 3 DBs in the same class? Highly unlikely. I like Faneca, Hutchinson and Mawae, but Boselli seems to have leapfrogged all of them and I don't see 2 OL going in the same class. Bruce and Holt are also interesting candidates for that last spot.
My predictions for this year...
Tony Gonzalez
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Tony Boselli
Steve Hutchinson
Tough to imagine Gonzalez or Reed not going in first ballot, I think they are 100% locks..Champ Bailey, I'd put very close to that, but more of a 90% chance...Very unlikely but wouldn't be completely shocked to see him bumped a year. The last 2 spots will be interesting. We have 4 OL who have been very close the past couple of years...2 years ago Boselli and Mawae made the cut to 10 while Faneca did not. Last year Faneca joined them along with another 1st year eligible Steve Hutchinson, all made the cut to 10 yet no OL's made the HOF...
This is what leads me to believe we will get two OL this year. Boselli being the only Tackle among these guys seems to have the clearest path. With Hutchinson jumping to the top 10 his first year eligible would seem to suggest he is the best of the interior OL, as neither Faneca or Mawae made the top 10 in their first try. ALthough all of these O Linemen are 1st Team All-Decade players.
I believe Law, Lynch and James are the only other strong candidates, with all others as outside wildcards.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
2019 Finalists announced:
Here is a look at the entire list:
Tony Gonzalez, TE; Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Falcons
Isaac Bruce, WR; Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams and San Francisco 49ers
Edgerrin James, RB; Indianapolis Colts, Arizona Cardinals and Seattle Seahawks
Ed Reed, S; Baltimore Ravens, Houston Texans and New York Jets
Steve Atwater, S; Denver Broncos and New York Jets
Champ Bailey, CB; Washington and Denver Broncos
Ty Law, CB; New England Patriots, New York Jets, Kansas City Chiefs and Denver Broncos
John Lynch, S; Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Denver Broncos
Tony Boselli, OT; Jacksonville Jaguars and Houston Texans
Steve Hutchinson, G; Seattle Seahawks, Minnesota Vikings and Tennessee Titans
Alan Faneca, G; Pittsburgh Steelers, New York Jets and Arizona Cardinals
Kevin Mawae, C/G; Seattle Seahawks, New York Jets and Tennessee Titans
Richard Seymour, DE/DT; New England Patriots and Oakland Raiders
Don Coryell, Coach; St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers
Tom Flores, Coach; Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders and Seattle Seahawks
Bill TY for posting
Gonzalez, Reed and Bailey are close to sure locks
Boselli
My brain says he's not my 5th choice but my heart says Flores
I need a Faneca, Seymour and Hutchinson if anyone has one
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My 5-
Gonzalez
Reed
Bailey
Hutchinson
Boselli
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm a big fan of the 1980's Raiders but hard to believe Flores goes in ahead of Coryell.
After the three locks - had to believe it could be a another defensive player or receiver - probably a lineman or two and a coach.
Gonzalez
Reed
Bailey
Boselli
Coryell
But shouldn't 2 Super Bowl victories supersede Coryell's failure in the playoffs?
TY Joe
Personally I wouldn't vote for either.
I have listened to all the speeches and accolades by Madden, Gibbs and Fouts…..
How they wouldn't be who they are (and in the HOF) without D.C.
I understand he helped change the game.
However professional sports is all about winning. Winning championships.
All the great coaches did that. If not they had a good W/L record.
So whatever D.C. did and how he did it never translated into success. Sure throw the ball 50 times a game and your
QB will lead the NFL in passing yards for 4 years and you will get recognition as a great passer and a few players will make the HOF but I am sure Fouts would trade passing titles for just one Lombardi.
Flores inherited a pretty good team from Madden. The Raiders had some great players in his tenure.
Not sure if his 2X SB wins were due to coaching or talent. Both?
On the other hand we "experts" claim Eli Manning is a hofer due to 2X SB wins based on the Future RC set.
For the record I will absolutely Puke if he does.
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Agree on Manning - but it is the name too. Maybe after Eli makes it Archie will come up on the senior list?
Even with two wins over the Goat. Not a HOFers!
My final predictions for Class of 2019...
Tony Gonzalez and Ed Reed, 100% locks...See no path that doesn't include these 2 in the Class..
Champ Bailey..90% chance...With the Patriots once again in the SB, Ty Law could conceivably find his way into the class..Most likely would be at the expense of Champ.
Steve Hutchinson and Tony Boselli...60-70%...With 4 O Lineman in the top 10 last year, they are all 4 likely going to be back in the top 10 this year...I believe the committee will place a premium on getting the top 2 into the HOF...Hutch and Boselli seem to have the most support heading into the meeting...Faneca and Mawae could easily repleace one of both, but I think they end up waiting another year or two...
Others I see making the cut to 10 this year (aside from Ty Law, Faneca and Mawae are Edgerrin James and Isaac Bruce...With the Rams in Atlanta, Could see Bruce getting a big push, but with two WRs and no OL going in last year, I think he wont quite make the final cutdown to 5...James being the only RB even in the top 25, I think this is a year he can get one step closer making it to the top 10, but would be a tough to leapfrog into one of the 5 slots...30-40% odds on these guys who make the cut to 10...
Lastly the longshots...
John Lynch..20%...Dropped out of the top 10 last year after twice making it to 10...Add to that Reed this year and Polomalu up next year, and I think he's going to be waiting a few more years...
Richard Seymour..20%..Patriots pedigree will add a few votes, like Ty Law, but wouldnt think they'd put two Patriots in, and Law has been in front of Seymour..
Tom Flores..10%...If there is a wildcard guy this year, its obviously Flores..His first time in the room, stranger things have happened...lol
Don Coryell and Steve At-water...0%...Just don't see any path for these 2 in 2019..
See what happens tomorrow!
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'll go with:
Gonzo
Reed
Bailey
Boselli
Edge
I think Hutchinson is the most likely player to get in if Boselli or Edge do not.
Jason, do you think Polamalu will go in first ballot? Obviously a great player, but he also had trouble staying on the field. I'd still say yes. Curious what your take is. I believe Polamalu is the only first-time eligible player with a realistic chance next year, which could also help his cause.
Troy might have to face Atwater and lynch for next year Plus leftovers from this year.
Does Patrick Willis have enough??
Ill stick to my original 4 plus Flores
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4 of the 5 moderns known so far:
Tony Gonzalez
Ed Reed
Champ Bailey
Kevin Mawae
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Yes I think Troy P will be first ballot next year..But the only first ballot guy next year..
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/champ-bailey-among-pro-football-hall-fames-2019-class-221420730.html
Add Ty Law
My WAY too early prediction for the 2020 HOF class:
Polamalu
Boselli
Edge
Lynch
Hutchinson
As for the seniors, I'd like to see Howley and Walls (no, I'm not a Cowboys fan), but I have no idea who'll get picked. I remember Andy Russell getting a big push last year. Wouldn't mind seeing him grab one of those spots.
Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, head coaches should be voted on separately from players. You just can't compare them.
I would love to know the mind-altering gas that got pumped into the voter room - to put Mawae in over Edge, Hutchinson or Boselli. Sure, he was a good player and big with the Union but please ..... Not as bad as putting Jerra in but very questionable IMO
My question was with Bailey. I believe he is a HOFer, but not 1st year. Oh well they will make for it next year with only Polamalu added to the list.
My 2020 Top 5:
Troy Polamalu
Steve Hutchinson
Tony Boselli
Edgerrin James
Richard Seymour
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Mawae was a little surprise. Not in my top 5.
I guess we will have to add J. Edelman to the future RC HOF set now. he he
SB commercials really sucked. Except Verizon honoring 1st responders.
What a masterpiece by Belicheck as the Pats had Goff confused the whole game.
IMO Tony Rom was a very good QB but is one of the best ever in the booth.
I enjoy him as much as the game.
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I'm not sure why Mawae was a surprise. His 7 first team all-pro selections were more than any other finalist including Hutchinson (5), James (2) and Boselli (3)... He was also an all-decade performer just like those other three.
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I guess it is surprising to me that Mawae stats were that good - Faneca had 9 pro bowls, 6 1st team over a 9 year span.
I have some Bowman PSA 9's if anyone is interested.
Bill
Mawae only had 3 First Team All-Pros. Yeah, the All Decade team and that does seem to be a magic bullet for the HOF. Just don't think he's the same caliber as the other HOF Centers.
Just what I was about to post...Not sure where 7 1st team all-pros come from, but he only had 3, Hutchinson had 5...
-Hutchinson was better for longer than Mawae
-Boselli was more dominant at his position, just for a shorter period...
-Class of 2016 voting Faneca made the top 15, Mawae only got votes to 25
-Mawae, in his first 2 years, only made the cut to 25, while Hutchinson made the cut to 10 in his first year of eligibility
All reasons why Mawae was thought by most to be either 3rd or 4th in OL pecking order...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
More surprising to me was 3 DBs and only 1 OL...And At-water leapfrogging Lynch in the cut to 10..Likely a very bad sign for Lynch's candidacy
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason
We know the winners
who else was final 10?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
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Steve Hutchinson
Alan Faneca
Edgerrin James
Steve Atwater
Tony Boselli
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
TY
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
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Makes you wonder if any of the Coaches will ever get in without a special category
So apparently Jason Witten is not retiring from the NFL
He’s a lot better on the field than he is in the booth. This’ll restart his HOF clock.
So his 5 year wait is not cumulative??
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
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Nope....5 year clock starts from his final time on an NFL game roster...Deion a recent example...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just hit this in my recent PSA submission. A good friend of mine gave me a little encouragement to send this in and it paid off quite well. Population 2!
With the length of career seeming less important - Gronk seems to be a HOFer to me. First ballot?
I am assuming his card would be topps chrome. He is not even on the future set.
Personally I don't think of him as first ballot.
Did anyone here win the 68 griese psa 9 from pwcc last night.? Adding the PQ added about $500+ to the price for sure. How about the Jim Thorpe or Red Grange RC's? recently.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I personally agree with Jay...not first ballot. Agreed he has the postseason accollades, but with all the other players at his position that have been doing it a lot longer, and retired....then not retired. Idk. Maybe the postseason stuff gets him in first ballot if he TRULY hangs em up and everyone else keeps coming back. We'll see in 5.
I concur on Gronk. I wouldn’t put him in first ballot.
Besides Brady & Belichick - who gets in the HOF from this Dynasty. I can't see any of the receivers other than Gronk. Seymour will probably get there on defense soon. The only other i can think of is Adam Vinatieri. Who am I missing?
I think the real unheralded stars of the Patriots’ dynasty are the O linemen. My goodness, Brady gets forever to throw the ball, and it’s been that way for years. You can say it’s part of the scheme if you like, but a scheme only works when it includes the right players. I’d love to see at least one O lineman, or even the O line coach, get some HOF consideration.
I agree with the forever part as Brady isn't exactly Fran Tarkenton.
Maybe a dumb question...has there ever been a coach elected to the hof that was never a winning head coach?
Also Brady is a great player who has benefited by the rule changes of his time.
When you are in the post season as much as Gronk was you will have any post season records.
Great catch by Gronk or not Edelman won the SB for the Pats last year. Of course the smartest coach of all time doesn't hurt either.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
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1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I reviewed the Future HOF set and was wondering what other's thought about Terrell Suggs chances at induction?
In my opinion he has the resume already and is capable of adding to to it with Cardinals pairing with C. Jones.
DROY
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