For me:
Suggs v. JJ Watt? Watt..In a landslide
Suggs v. Ware? Ware..Not close
Suggs v. Julius Peppers? Peppers..Not close
Suggs v. Freeney? Freeney..Not close
Suggs v. Seymour? Seymour..Not close
Suggs v. Jared Allen? Allen..Closer
Suggs v. Von Miller?.. Tough call, but I would go Von Miller and Miller not on the set
Suggs v. Simeon Rice? Suggs...Rice not on set, made the top 25 once then fell out of top 25 last year...
So for me, Suggs borderline...How many pass rushers they going to put in from 2003-2018 time frame (Suggs career)...He needs another big All-Pro type season to move up the list...Seems long shot
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
For me:
Suggs v. JJ Watt? Watt..In a landslide
Suggs v. Ware? Ware..Not close
Suggs v. Julius Peppers? Peppers..Not close
Suggs v. Freeney? Freeney..Not close
Suggs v. Seymour? Seymour..Not close
Suggs v. Jared Allen? Allen..Closer
Suggs v. Von Miller?.. Tough call, but I would go Von Miller and Miller not on the set
Suggs v. Simeon Rice? Suggs...Rice not on set, made the top 25 once then fell out of top 25 last year...
So for me, Suggs borderline...How many pass rushers they going to put in from 2003-2018 time frame (Suggs career)...He needs another big All-Pro type season to move up the list...Seems long shot
John Turney lists Suggs as the #8 3-4 Rushbacker of All-Time, stating:
"Still active and playing well, Suggs is already an all-time great. Suggs has averaged 9.4 sacks per 16 games and has 131.0 sacks currently. He has 842 tackles and has forced 33 fumbles and 91.5 of his tackles were for losses, aside from the sacks. Those 91.5 stuffs are among the highest figures you will see on this list as Suggs was a major part of the Ravens run defense which was one of the two best in most categories during his career.
He was the AP Defensive Player of the Year in 2011 and was First-team All-Pro that year. He was a second-team All-Pro in 2008 and has been voted to the Pro Bowl seven times.
Suggs is a true edge rusher, someone who splits time between left and right end and backer in both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes. He just does what he does—sizzle. And he's done it for 16 seasons."
I am not going to make an argument against any of those names as each is a strong HOF candidate but Suggs clearly has support if Turney regards him so highly.
I have posted this before but Justin Smith had a HOF caliber career and is ranked #7 by Turney (right behind Seymour who had the good fortune of playing on multiple Super Bowl wining teams).
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Going by Turney's list...Suggs falls between Rickey Jackson (who wasn't elected or even a top 15 finalist until his 10 years of eligibility) and Pat Swilling (who has never made the top 25 semifinalists in his 15 years of eligibility...Sorry but that is NOT a glowing endorsement..AT ALL...Its a niche list of 3-4 pass rushers...Not all pass rushers..
Same with the 3-4 DE's...He has Justin Smith between Seymour and Lyle Alzado...Alzado never got in, likely never will as he is now in the senior pool...
As I said in my post on Suggs...Borderline, same with Smith...And the HOF voters, at least to this point in time, has not shown a propensity to split votes between if a guy played 3-4 or 4-3...They combine outside pass rushers and interior DL into groups that can split votes..
So for me, I believe Suggs will not get in before any of the other guys I listed above...Which means hes going to have a tough time every getting in...Rare for the voters to put in thr 8th-9th best player at his position during his playing days...Not impossible, but borderline...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If Suggs is borderline would you agree Kevin Williams DT is a nice player not HOFer? If I remember right removing someone takes an act of God?
Seems like we need to transform the future set a little.
I believe Kevin Williams will be compared to other INTERIOR D-Lineman, not pass rushers...So where does Kevin Williams rank? Interior DL who are not yet in?
Kevin Williams v. Seymour??? Tough call, flip a coin...
Kevin Williams v. Justin Smith??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. Vince Wilfork??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. Bryant Young??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. LeRoi Glover??? Williams
So Williams is either the top or very close 2nd Interior Lineman...Kevin Williams also has FIVE 1st Team All-Pro selections and was 2nd Team All-Decade...While he isn't a first ballot lock, I dont see him waiting more than 5-6 years MAX before being elected...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm curious if anyone can answer what the deciding factor for Morris "Red" Badgro's RC was, as he did not have a RC back in the 20's & 30's? The Set Registry shows his 1985 Football Immortals card as the RC. Anyone have any info on this set? Was it licensed by the NFL? Was it only sold in factory sets at the HOF or was it a national release? The 1988 Swell Greats cards were licensed by the NFL, so wouldn't this be more official? Thoughts? Input? Thanks.
@JasP24 said:
Going by Turney's list...Suggs falls between Rickey Jackson (who wasn't elected or even a top 15 finalist until his 10 years of eligibility) and Pat Swilling (who has never made the top 25 semifinalists in his 15 years of eligibility...Sorry but that is NOT a glowing endorsement..AT ALL...Its a niche list of 3-4 pass rushers...Not all pass rushers..
Same with the 3-4 DE's...He has Justin Smith between Seymour and Lyle Alzado...Alzado never got in, likely never will as he is now in the senior pool...
As I said in my post on Suggs...Borderline, same with Smith...And the HOF voters, at least to this point in time, has not shown a propensity to split votes between if a guy played 3-4 or 4-3...They combine outside pass rushers and interior DL into groups that can split votes..
So for me, I believe Suggs will not get in before any of the other guys I listed above...Which means hes going to have a tough time every getting in...Rare for the voters to put in thr 8th-9th best player at his position during his playing days...Not impossible, but borderline...
The only player not in the HOF who was named both DROY & DPOY while winning a Super Bowl is Dana Stubblefield. Stubblefield had a nice career but he only finished with 3 Pro Bowl appearances and 53.5 sacks. Suggs has 4 more Pro Bowls and 79 more sacks. I believe he has too many accomplishments to be ignored by the voters. If Alzado or Smith had two defensive awards and a Super Bowl ring to each of their resumes they would probably be better candidates. Suggs checks nearly every box except multiple All Pros and an All Decade selection. That is where his defensive awards should help, especially since nearly every player who has one both is in the HOF.
Swilling looked like a HOF'er until he left the Saints. The Lions used him more in coverage than the Saints and his sack totals took a hit. Had he finished with more career sacks or a Super Bowl win with the Dome Patrol I think he might have been a strong HOF candidate.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
Just curious, why are you so high on Ware? I’m sure you have your reasons , and I haven’t done any substantial analysis, but by my own eyeball test (only) I would rank Suggs ahead of Ware.
@JasP24 said:
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
Just for perspective the names mentioned and where they place on Turney's lists:
4-3 Ends:
Peppers #13
Allen #18
Freeney #27
Rice #28
Defensive Tackles (3 Technique):
B. Young #13
Williams #20
Glover#36
Nose Tackles (1 Technique):
Wilfork #8
3-4 Ends:
Watt #2
Seymour #6
Smith#7
3-4 Edge Rushers:
Miller #2
Ware #6
Suggs #8
Mack #12
In regards to Suggs every player ahead of him except Miller is in the HOF. His place on the list can be viewed in one of two ways; he is either the next to get inducted or he is a borderline candidate. It seems like you and I just have a different perspective on his career.
Suggs might benefit from the staggered retirements of Allen, Ware, Freeney, and Peppers since each player will be eligible in separate years. It also isn't uncommon for the committee to go deep into a position if they feel it is warranted (L.T., Tippett, White, Smith, Greene, Doleman, Thomas, Dent, and Haley were all 1980's pass rushers).
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
@JasP24 said:
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
Just curious, why are you so high on Ware? I’m sure you have your reasons , and I haven’t done any substantial analysis, but by my own eyeball test (only) I would rank Suggs ahead of Ware.
I know you did not address me but I would like to offer my take on Ware. In my opinion believe Ware was on par with Lawrence Taylor. When healthy I never observed a real flaw in his game. He was excellent at setting the edge, rushing the passer, and simple pass coverage (flats and man). He was exposed in zone coverage and you probably did not want him covering crossing routes. As a 3-4 edge player I do not believe those are qualities a franchise seeks out for an outside linebacker. Von Miller might be the best edge rusher who I have seen play pass coverage where he is comfortable with whatever his assignment is.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Thanks for the response. Would you say Suggs plays the run better than Ware did? I know that’s not his primary responsibility, but I tend to favor complete players, like your point with Miller.
@DBesse27 said:
Thanks for the response. Would you say Suggs plays the run better than Ware did? I know that’s not his primary responsibility, but I tend to favor complete players, like your point with Miller.
Both were/are excellent run defenders. Difficult to get past either one since they were strong at the point of attack and could also string out plays on the edge.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
@JasP24 said:
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
Just curious, why are you so high on Ware? I’m sure you have your reasons , and I haven’t done any substantial analysis, but by my own eyeball test (only) I would rank Suggs ahead of Ware.
I know you did not address me but I would like to offer my take on Ware. In my opinion believe Ware was on par with Lawrence Taylor. When healthy I never observed a real flaw in his game. He was excellent at setting the edge, rushing the passer, and simple pass coverage (flats and man). He was exposed in zone coverage and you probably did not want him covering crossing routes. As a 3-4 edge player I do not believe those are qualities a franchise seeks out for an outside linebacker. Von Miller might be the best edge rusher who I have seen play pass coverage where he is comfortable with whatever his assignment is.
Well said on Ware..Nothing really to add...I mostly concur, he was a dominant pass rusher and very good run defender.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
Just for perspective the names mentioned and where they place on Turney's lists:
4-3 Ends:
Peppers #13
Allen #18
Freeney #27
Rice #28
Defensive Tackles (3 Technique):
B. Young #13
Williams #20
Glover#36
Nose Tackles (1 Technique):
Wilfork #8
3-4 Ends:
Watt #2
Seymour #6
Smith#7
3-4 Edge Rushers:
Miller #2
Ware #6
Suggs #8
Mack #12
In regards to Suggs every player ahead of him except Miller is in the HOF. His place on the list can be viewed in one of two ways; he is either the next to get inducted or he is a borderline candidate. It seems like you and I just have a different perspective on his career.
Suggs might benefit from the staggered retirements of Allen, Ware, Freeney, and Peppers since each player will be eligible in separate years. It also isn't uncommon for the committee to go deep into a position if they feel it is warranted (L.T., Tippett, White, Smith, Greene, Doleman, Thomas, Dent, and Haley were all 1980's pass rushers).
Hey, Turney is great, but he's not a HOF voter...He disagrees quite a bit with the HOF committee...I can too at times, but I try and see things from that perspective...Not just my own eyes, but how current committee is doing things and viewing/comparing players...
I'd be interested to see where he has these guys ranked:
Strahan
Jason Taylor
Sapp
Bruce Smith
Reggie White
Chris Doleman
Neil Smith
Cortez Kennedy
John Randle
Kevin Greene
Derrick Thomas
These are your Team of the Decade players from 90s and 00s...Majority in the HOF...Does he have any of them ranked below players who are NOT in the HOF, but who are eligible? If so, what soes that say for his rankings in comparison to HOF selections?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
He has Derrick Thomas 3rd, Kevin Greene 4th, Andre Tippett 5th, Rickey Jackson 7th...Yet all these guys were HOF eligible over similar time frames..The were elected in this order:
2008-Andre Tippett...Thomas and Greene were both eligible, voter selected Tippett...
2009- Derrick Thomas..He was top of his list, so ok
2010-Rickey Jackson..Kevin Greene still eligible
2016-Kevin Greene
So his 7th best guy got elected a full 6 years before his 4th best 3-4 OLB pass rusher...My point being...1-The HOF does NOT and to this point HAS NOT made separation of the positions this in depth..They essentially compare pass rushers of all positions...2-Many of these players played at MULTIPLE positions in different defensive schemes...Greene for example, played hand in the dirt 7-tech, 9-tech pass rusher later in his career after playing strictly 3-4 OLB early in his career...3-Turney is good at what he does, but he has not been a very good predictor of HOF classes...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Tippett! My guy! Since you brought him up, and since no cardboard has been shown in this thread in a while, I thought it might be fun to show my Tippett RCs.
Just popping in to say hi......... I'm getting back into the hobby after 10-12 years away. Amazing to see this set, this thread, and many of the same people still going strong!
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
They're currently alternating between 1 and 2 candidates annually, so this year will be back to 2. They'll be announced in August as usual.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@AlanAllen said:
Just popping in to say hi......... I'm getting back into the hobby after 10-12 years away. Amazing to see this set, this thread, and many of the same people still going strong!
There's a name I haven't seen in a while. Welcome back!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@AlanAllen said:
Just popping in to say hi......... I'm getting back into the hobby after 10-12 years away. Amazing to see this set, this thread, and many of the same people still going strong!
Wow..HOF RC set OG! Welcome back to the hobby! Or at the very least to the message board...lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
So potentially more than 2? Wow.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
So potentially more than 2? Wow.
Correct...I've been told anywhere between 5-10 from the senior committee...They've also discussed as many as 15 modern candidates..Basically just a yes/no vote on the finalists...
They've also discussed a regular season game in Canton in September 2020...My guess, they will combine the huge class induction weekend with the regular season game...
Will be interesting to see what they do....I expect SOME type of big splash, will be disappointed if they can't agree on something cool...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think it would be nice to see a bigger class. Still so many deserving Senior candidates out there. I guess it would be nice to free up some space for the modern votes. I was hoping that something would have been mentioned during the draft weekend.
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
So potentially more than 2? Wow.
Correct...I've been told anywhere between 5-10 from the senior committee...They've also discussed as many as 15 modern candidates..Basically just a yes/no vote on the finalists...
They've also discussed a regular season game in Canton in September 2020...My guess, they will combine the huge class induction weekend with the regular season game...
Will be interesting to see what they do....I expect SOME type of big splash, will be disappointed if they can't agree on something cool...
That's pretty awesome. I actually had the idea years ago to have one year where they expanded the number of entrants and freed up the logjam. Glad the HOF took my advice . There are so many worthy candidates that I don't think we'll need to worry about a watering down of the HOF like baseball is doing. If they stick with announcing the senior nominees in August, the HOF has 3 1/2 months to figure this out. Fingers crossed.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
If they're inducting that many senior committee candidates, do any of you think Gino Cappelletti has a chance? He's been mostly forgotten in recent years, but I think he's deserving. Am I off base?
Dan
We all know Gino is in your heart as a player and as a person.
Gino was definitely a big star in the old AFL. He was a jack of all trades player much like many others.
Where he led was point scoring. As a field goal kicker he was a 60% guy. This is not good by today's standards but maybe very good back then.
Many feel that the AFL players were lesser quality and that hurts his chances. Maybe that all was settled in 1969 will
broadway Joe.
I think he falls short. However I believe he was a better player than most of the other hall of very close players.
I would have no problem if he did make it in.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
@DBesse27 said:
If they're inducting that many senior committee candidates, do any of you think Gino Cappelletti has a chance? He's been mostly forgotten in recent years, but I think he's deserving. Am I off base?
I also think he is a fringe guy. I did purchase one of his RC’s just in case. Either way I am glad I got it whether he makes it or not.
Cappelletti hasn’t been in the top 15 seniors vote for at minimum the past 10 years if not longer.
Always possible with the senior committee, but would assume a bigger class would be mostly comprised of say the top 5 vote getters are something of that nature.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Two months until one of my favorite days of the year: the Senior Committee announcement of its new nominees. Two nominees this time, thankfully.
Seemed like Ken Anderson, Alex Karras, Jim Marshall, Joe Klecko, and Andy Russell got some buzz last year. Would be thrilled to see any of them get the nods. Also heard some buzz about previously overlooked all-decade guys, like 1970s first-teamers Cliff Harris and Drew Pearson, getting consideration.
Any bets? Personally pulling for Anderson, Harris, Wistert, Nobis, or Meador.
Always torn between guys whose rookies I already have and those whose cards I don’t! Wouldn’t be disappointed to see 1-2 of the latter so I have a good excuse to rush out and buy new cards!
If we are lucky there will be more than 2 nominees. I am anxious to hear what the Hall has planned for the 100 year celebration. It would be nice to have an amnesty class. I like all of the players you mentioned as senior nominees. I also believe that guys like Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan gained some momentum last year as well. Hopefully they announce their plans for the 100 year celebration soon!
@shawther said:
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
So potentially more than 2? Wow.
Correct...I've been told anywhere between 5-10 from the senior committee...They've also discussed as many as 15 modern candidates..Basically just a yes/no vote on the finalists...
They've also discussed a regular season game in Canton in September 2020...My guess, they will combine the huge class induction weekend with the regular season game...
Will be interesting to see what they do....I expect SOME type of big splash, will be disappointed if they can't agree on something cool...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@shawther said:
If we are lucky there will be more than 2 nominees. I am anxious to hear what the Hall has planned for the 100 year celebration. It would be nice to have an amnesty class. I like all of the players you mentioned as senior nominees. I also believe that guys like Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan gained some momentum last year as well. Hopefully they announce their plans for the 100 year celebration soon!
Neither Howley or Baughan were in the final 5 last year...Gradishar has been closer and gained momentum. Andy Russell also got into the conversation at LB last two years.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@shawther said:
If we are lucky there will be more than 2 nominees. I am anxious to hear what the Hall has planned for the 100 year celebration. It would be nice to have an amnesty class. I like all of the players you mentioned as senior nominees. I also believe that guys like Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan gained some momentum last year as well. Hopefully they announce their plans for the 100 year celebration soon!
Neither Howley or Baughan were in the final 5 last year...Gradishar has been closer and gained momentum. Andy Russell also got into the conversation at LB last two years.
Do you know who else was in the final 5 last year with Johnny Robinson? I'm guessing Andy Russell was one of them.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@shawther said:
If we are lucky there will be more than 2 nominees. I am anxious to hear what the Hall has planned for the 100 year celebration. It would be nice to have an amnesty class. I like all of the players you mentioned as senior nominees. I also believe that guys like Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan gained some momentum last year as well. Hopefully they announce their plans for the 100 year celebration soon!
Neither Howley or Baughan were in the final 5 last year...Gradishar has been closer and gained momentum. Andy Russell also got into the conversation at LB last two years.
Do you know who else was in the final 5 last year with Johnny Robinson? I'm guessing Andy Russell was one of them.
And you would be correct. Lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey HOF guys ...... will Adrian Peterson get 1,000 yards this year?
It was so enjoyable watching him (a true lock HOFer) playing for my Redskins last year. Albeit, he's not in his prime .. but you can still see the talent, effort and character of a true star.
Also, a little tip for all of you ... go grab your Montez Sweat RC's now .. because he's the NFL's next dominant pass rusher / sack leader. #HTTR
Lastly, I'm so glad to hear the HOF will finally add a larger group of seniors to help relieve the backlog. I just hope we don't have to wait another 100 years for them to wise up and stop limiting it so much every year.
You guys are more knowledgeable than me. Can somebody please state the case for Richmond Webb? I never thought when he was playing that he as even a borderline HOFer but what do I know.
I know the argument against him was that anybody could protect Marino with his quick release. Of course, Bruce Smith only bested Webb like 9 times in his almost 20 year career to get to Marino while playing the Dolphins twice per year. Best OL imho are the ones you never hear about, right?
90s all decade team (that's 4 NFL offensive tackles)
4X All-Pro
7X Pro Bowl
118 consecutive starts
Dolphins Ring of Honor
I honestly think his best chance is for his peers to go to bat for him.
@spanky74 said:
Any chance for Lester Hayes, Richmond Webb, or Darren Woodson in the near future?
Lester Hayes has gotten descent support in the senior committee and could very well be among the group of seniors that gets elected for the 100th anniversary of the NFL...He is in the top 2-3 CBs in the senior pool, along with Eddie Meador and Pat Fischer..
Darren Woodson has made the cut to 25 Semifinalists 3 times in his 10 years of eligibility..Problem is that he has three other Safties CLEARLY ahead of him in the current modern era pecking order. Polomalu, Lynch and At-water..If he gets in as a modern candidate its going to be closer to his final year(s) of eligibility..
Richmond Webb will discuss in next post.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@spanky74 said:
I know the argument against him was that anybody could protect Marino with his quick release. Of course, Bruce Smith only bested Webb like 9 times in his almost 20 year career to get to Marino while playing the Dolphins twice per year. Best OL imho are the ones you never hear about, right?
90s all decade team (that's 4 NFL offensive tackles)
4X All-Pro
7X Pro Bowl
118 consecutive starts
Dolphins Ring of Honor
I honestly think his best chance is for his peers to go to bat for him.
Problem for Richmond Webb is where does he rank among OT's during his era? He played from 1990-2002 and was a First Team All-Pro twice...Other OT with 2 or more 1st Team All-Pro selections during this time?
Jim Lachey
Harris Barton
Willie Roaf
Gary Zimmerman
Tony Boselli
Jon Ogden
3 of these guys already in the HOF, Boselli has been in the final cut to 10 the past 3 years. Is Webb the 5th OT? Not a glowing endorsement. The All-Decade selection is nice but doesnt seem to guarantee much for second team all-decade OTs. Boselli is the other from the 90's, and he's not in yet either. Jimbo Covert was 1st Team and Joe Jacoby 2nd team All-Decade for the 1980's at OT and they are also still not in....
Its tough for OL, as there are multiple distinct position on the OL that tend to get lumped together when it comes to the voting...Not going to put the best 5 players at all 5 positions (25 OL) into the HOF for each decade....
Summary on Webb, his odds of being elected as a modern candidate EXTREMELY low, no matter who does or doesnt go to bat for him...Once he gets to the senior pool, then he will be compared to the other All-Decade guys like Jacoby and maybe someday he gets in..But no senior pool player has better than 5-10% odds of ever being elected...More of a coin flip, although a bigger class this year could help guys like Webb in the future.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@spanky74 said:
I know the argument against him was that anybody could protect Marino with his quick release. Of course, Bruce Smith only bested Webb like 9 times in his almost 20 year career to get to Marino while playing the Dolphins twice per year. Best OL imho are the ones you never hear about, right?
90s all decade team (that's 4 NFL offensive tackles)
4X All-Pro
7X Pro Bowl
118 consecutive starts
Dolphins Ring of Honor
I honestly think his best chance is for his peers to go to bat for him.
Problem for Richmond Webb is where does he rank among OT's during his era? He played from 1990-2002 and was a First Team All-Pro twice...Other OT with 2 or more 1st Team All-Pro selections during this time?
Jim Lachey
Harris Barton
Willie Roaf
Gary Zimmerman
Tony Boselli
Jon Ogden
3 of these guys already in the HOF, Boselli has been in the final cut to 10 the past 3 years. Is Webb the 5th OT? Not a glowing endorsement. The All-Decade selection is nice but doesnt seem to guarantee much for second team all-decade OTs. Boselli is the other from the 90's, and he's not in yet either. Jimbo Covert was 1st Team and Joe Jacoby 2nd team All-Decade for the 1980's at OT and they are also still not in....
Its tough for OL, as there are multiple distinct position on the OL that tend to get lumped together when it comes to the voting...Not going to put the best 5 players at all 5 positions (25 OL) into the HOF for each decade....
Summary on Webb, his odds of being elected as a modern candidate EXTREMELY low, no matter who does or doesnt go to bat for him...Once he gets to the senior pool, then he will be compared to the other All-Decade guys like Jacoby and maybe someday he gets in..But no senior pool player has better than 5-10% odds of ever being elected...More of a coin flip, although a bigger class this year could help guys like Webb in the future.
Thank you for summarizing what I kind of felt, that Webb was never considered elite (top 2 or 3) at Juan position while he played.
Comments
For me:
Suggs v. JJ Watt? Watt..In a landslide
Suggs v. Ware? Ware..Not close
Suggs v. Julius Peppers? Peppers..Not close
Suggs v. Freeney? Freeney..Not close
Suggs v. Seymour? Seymour..Not close
Suggs v. Jared Allen? Allen..Closer
Suggs v. Von Miller?.. Tough call, but I would go Von Miller and Miller not on the set
Suggs v. Simeon Rice? Suggs...Rice not on set, made the top 25 once then fell out of top 25 last year...
So for me, Suggs borderline...How many pass rushers they going to put in from 2003-2018 time frame (Suggs career)...He needs another big All-Pro type season to move up the list...Seems long shot
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jasp,
If Suggs is borderline would you agree Kevin Williams DT is a nice player not HOFer? If I remember right removing someone takes an act of God?
Seems like we need to transform the future set a little.
John Turney lists Suggs as the #8 3-4 Rushbacker of All-Time, stating:
"Still active and playing well, Suggs is already an all-time great. Suggs has averaged 9.4 sacks per 16 games and has 131.0 sacks currently. He has 842 tackles and has forced 33 fumbles and 91.5 of his tackles were for losses, aside from the sacks. Those 91.5 stuffs are among the highest figures you will see on this list as Suggs was a major part of the Ravens run defense which was one of the two best in most categories during his career.
He was the AP Defensive Player of the Year in 2011 and was First-team All-Pro that year. He was a second-team All-Pro in 2008 and has been voted to the Pro Bowl seven times.
Suggs is a true edge rusher, someone who splits time between left and right end and backer in both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes. He just does what he does—sizzle. And he's done it for 16 seasons."
nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-top-3-4-rushbackers-of-all-time.html
I am not going to make an argument against any of those names as each is a strong HOF candidate but Suggs clearly has support if Turney regards him so highly.
I have posted this before but Justin Smith had a HOF caliber career and is ranked #7 by Turney (right behind Seymour who had the good fortune of playing on multiple Super Bowl wining teams).
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Suggs in after a few years wait IMO
Going by Turney's list...Suggs falls between Rickey Jackson (who wasn't elected or even a top 15 finalist until his 10 years of eligibility) and Pat Swilling (who has never made the top 25 semifinalists in his 15 years of eligibility...Sorry but that is NOT a glowing endorsement..AT ALL...Its a niche list of 3-4 pass rushers...Not all pass rushers..
Same with the 3-4 DE's...He has Justin Smith between Seymour and Lyle Alzado...Alzado never got in, likely never will as he is now in the senior pool...
As I said in my post on Suggs...Borderline, same with Smith...And the HOF voters, at least to this point in time, has not shown a propensity to split votes between if a guy played 3-4 or 4-3...They combine outside pass rushers and interior DL into groups that can split votes..
So for me, I believe Suggs will not get in before any of the other guys I listed above...Which means hes going to have a tough time every getting in...Rare for the voters to put in thr 8th-9th best player at his position during his playing days...Not impossible, but borderline...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I believe Kevin Williams will be compared to other INTERIOR D-Lineman, not pass rushers...So where does Kevin Williams rank? Interior DL who are not yet in?
Kevin Williams v. Seymour??? Tough call, flip a coin...
Kevin Williams v. Justin Smith??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. Vince Wilfork??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. Bryant Young??? Williams
Kevin Williams v. LeRoi Glover??? Williams
So Williams is either the top or very close 2nd Interior Lineman...Kevin Williams also has FIVE 1st Team All-Pro selections and was 2nd Team All-Decade...While he isn't a first ballot lock, I dont see him waiting more than 5-6 years MAX before being elected...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm curious if anyone can answer what the deciding factor for Morris "Red" Badgro's RC was, as he did not have a RC back in the 20's & 30's? The Set Registry shows his 1985 Football Immortals card as the RC. Anyone have any info on this set? Was it licensed by the NFL? Was it only sold in factory sets at the HOF or was it a national release? The 1988 Swell Greats cards were licensed by the NFL, so wouldn't this be more official? Thoughts? Input? Thanks.
The only player not in the HOF who was named both DROY & DPOY while winning a Super Bowl is Dana Stubblefield. Stubblefield had a nice career but he only finished with 3 Pro Bowl appearances and 53.5 sacks. Suggs has 4 more Pro Bowls and 79 more sacks. I believe he has too many accomplishments to be ignored by the voters. If Alzado or Smith had two defensive awards and a Super Bowl ring to each of their resumes they would probably be better candidates. Suggs checks nearly every box except multiple All Pros and an All Decade selection. That is where his defensive awards should help, especially since nearly every player who has one both is in the HOF.
Swilling looked like a HOF'er until he left the Saints. The Lions used him more in coverage than the Saints and his sack totals took a hit. Had he finished with more career sacks or a Super Bowl win with the Dome Patrol I think he might have been a strong HOF candidate.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I dont think he will be ignored by voters at all..Suggs will certainly be in the conversation...But he's a borderline candidate with his current resume. He's going to have a tough time when so many other pass rushers have better resumes. How many pass rushers going to go into the HOF from this era? Suggs is somewhere between 5th-8th in my ranks...I can't imagine many (or any) will have him ranked to be more deserving of induction than guys like Freeney, Peppers, Ware, Watt, Von Miller...
After this 2019 season, Suggs is going to have his SECOND chance at being named to an All-Decade team..If he's not in the top 4 EDGE guys in either of the decades he played in, then he's got a long road ahead of him in the HOF quest...My predictions for all-decade---JJ Watt, Von Miller, and Khalil Mack seem locks...4th spot likely up for grabs, but would put my money on DeMarcus Ware...
Also doesn't his ranking on Turney's list take his DPOY and DROY awards into account? Turney's is typically very thorough with his evaluations..Take those away and Suggs likely even lower on that list.
Just my opinion of course.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just curious, why are you so high on Ware? I’m sure you have your reasons , and I haven’t done any substantial analysis, but by my own eyeball test (only) I would rank Suggs ahead of Ware.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Just for perspective the names mentioned and where they place on Turney's lists:
4-3 Ends:
Peppers #13
Allen #18
Freeney #27
Rice #28
Defensive Tackles (3 Technique):
B. Young #13
Williams #20
Glover#36
Nose Tackles (1 Technique):
Wilfork #8
3-4 Ends:
Watt #2
Seymour #6
Smith#7
3-4 Edge Rushers:
Miller #2
Ware #6
Suggs #8
Mack #12
In regards to Suggs every player ahead of him except Miller is in the HOF. His place on the list can be viewed in one of two ways; he is either the next to get inducted or he is a borderline candidate. It seems like you and I just have a different perspective on his career.
Suggs might benefit from the staggered retirements of Allen, Ware, Freeney, and Peppers since each player will be eligible in separate years. It also isn't uncommon for the committee to go deep into a position if they feel it is warranted (L.T., Tippett, White, Smith, Greene, Doleman, Thomas, Dent, and Haley were all 1980's pass rushers).
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I know you did not address me but I would like to offer my take on Ware. In my opinion believe Ware was on par with Lawrence Taylor. When healthy I never observed a real flaw in his game. He was excellent at setting the edge, rushing the passer, and simple pass coverage (flats and man). He was exposed in zone coverage and you probably did not want him covering crossing routes. As a 3-4 edge player I do not believe those are qualities a franchise seeks out for an outside linebacker. Von Miller might be the best edge rusher who I have seen play pass coverage where he is comfortable with whatever his assignment is.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Thanks for the response. Would you say Suggs plays the run better than Ware did? I know that’s not his primary responsibility, but I tend to favor complete players, like your point with Miller.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Both were/are excellent run defenders. Difficult to get past either one since they were strong at the point of attack and could also string out plays on the edge.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Comparing anyone to LT is quite a reach !!
Well said on Ware..Nothing really to add...I mostly concur, he was a dominant pass rusher and very good run defender.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey, Turney is great, but he's not a HOF voter...He disagrees quite a bit with the HOF committee...I can too at times, but I try and see things from that perspective...Not just my own eyes, but how current committee is doing things and viewing/comparing players...
I'd be interested to see where he has these guys ranked:
Strahan
Jason Taylor
Sapp
Bruce Smith
Reggie White
Chris Doleman
Neil Smith
Cortez Kennedy
John Randle
Kevin Greene
Derrick Thomas
These are your Team of the Decade players from 90s and 00s...Majority in the HOF...Does he have any of them ranked below players who are NOT in the HOF, but who are eligible? If so, what soes that say for his rankings in comparison to HOF selections?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just looking at his 3-4 pass rusher ranks...
He has Derrick Thomas 3rd, Kevin Greene 4th, Andre Tippett 5th, Rickey Jackson 7th...Yet all these guys were HOF eligible over similar time frames..The were elected in this order:
2008-Andre Tippett...Thomas and Greene were both eligible, voter selected Tippett...
2009- Derrick Thomas..He was top of his list, so ok
2010-Rickey Jackson..Kevin Greene still eligible
2016-Kevin Greene
So his 7th best guy got elected a full 6 years before his 4th best 3-4 OLB pass rusher...My point being...1-The HOF does NOT and to this point HAS NOT made separation of the positions this in depth..They essentially compare pass rushers of all positions...2-Many of these players played at MULTIPLE positions in different defensive schemes...Greene for example, played hand in the dirt 7-tech, 9-tech pass rusher later in his career after playing strictly 3-4 OLB early in his career...3-Turney is good at what he does, but he has not been a very good predictor of HOF classes...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Tippett! My guy! Since you brought him up, and since no cardboard has been shown in this thread in a while, I thought it might be fun to show my Tippett RCs.
I’ve got a raw blank back version too.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Has anyone heard how the Senior class will be decided for2020? Bigger class?
Just popping in to say hi......... I'm getting back into the hobby after 10-12 years away. Amazing to see this set, this thread, and many of the same people still going strong!
WELCOME BACK
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
They're currently alternating between 1 and 2 candidates annually, so this year will be back to 2. They'll be announced in August as usual.
There's a name I haven't seen in a while. Welcome back!
Wow..HOF RC set OG! Welcome back to the hobby! Or at the very least to the message board...lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thats the rumor...They have plans for something special in conjunction with the NFL 100th anni...But nothing has been announced officially...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So potentially more than 2? Wow.
Maybe they will try to honor some of the long lost guys who were overlooked.
Maybe the all time 100 players like hockey did.
I know they did the 75 anniversary team.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Correct...I've been told anywhere between 5-10 from the senior committee...They've also discussed as many as 15 modern candidates..Basically just a yes/no vote on the finalists...
They've also discussed a regular season game in Canton in September 2020...My guess, they will combine the huge class induction weekend with the regular season game...
Will be interesting to see what they do....I expect SOME type of big splash, will be disappointed if they can't agree on something cool...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think it would be nice to see a bigger class. Still so many deserving Senior candidates out there. I guess it would be nice to free up some space for the modern votes. I was hoping that something would have been mentioned during the draft weekend.
That's pretty awesome. I actually had the idea years ago to have one year where they expanded the number of entrants and freed up the logjam. Glad the HOF took my advice
. There are so many worthy candidates that I don't think we'll need to worry about a watering down of the HOF like baseball is doing. If they stick with announcing the senior nominees in August, the HOF has 3 1/2 months to figure this out. Fingers crossed.
If they're inducting that many senior committee candidates, do any of you think Gino Cappelletti has a chance? He's been mostly forgotten in recent years, but I think he's deserving. Am I off base?
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Dan
We all know Gino is in your heart as a player and as a person.
Gino was definitely a big star in the old AFL. He was a jack of all trades player much like many others.
Where he led was point scoring. As a field goal kicker he was a 60% guy. This is not good by today's standards but maybe very good back then.
Many feel that the AFL players were lesser quality and that hurts his chances. Maybe that all was settled in 1969 will
broadway Joe.
I think he falls short. However I believe he was a better player than most of the other hall of very close players.
I would have no problem if he did make it in.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I also think he is a fringe guy. I did purchase one of his RC’s just in case. Either way I am glad I got it whether he makes it or not.
I collect the all time AFL set.
Finding a nice Gino is hard.
Also have his rc. Its one of my fav cards I own.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Cappelletti hasn’t been in the top 15 seniors vote for at minimum the past 10 years if not longer.
Always possible with the senior committee, but would assume a bigger class would be mostly comprised of say the top 5 vote getters are something of that nature.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ok guys, thanks for your fair and balanced assessment.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Two months until one of my favorite days of the year: the Senior Committee announcement of its new nominees. Two nominees this time, thankfully.
Seemed like Ken Anderson, Alex Karras, Jim Marshall, Joe Klecko, and Andy Russell got some buzz last year. Would be thrilled to see any of them get the nods. Also heard some buzz about previously overlooked all-decade guys, like 1970s first-teamers Cliff Harris and Drew Pearson, getting consideration.
Any bets? Personally pulling for Anderson, Harris, Wistert, Nobis, or Meador.
Always torn between guys whose rookies I already have and those whose cards I don’t! Wouldn’t be disappointed to see 1-2 of the latter so I have a good excuse to rush out and buy new cards!
If we are lucky there will be more than 2 nominees. I am anxious to hear what the Hall has planned for the 100 year celebration. It would be nice to have an amnesty class. I like all of the players you mentioned as senior nominees. I also believe that guys like Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan gained some momentum last year as well. Hopefully they announce their plans for the 100 year celebration soon!
https://footballmaven.io/talkoffame/nfl/good-news-for-hall-of-fame-seniors-centennial-class-is-going-to-happen-axpCVZEdOkSTuWSU3HEbwg/
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Neither Howley or Baughan were in the final 5 last year...Gradishar has been closer and gained momentum. Andy Russell also got into the conversation at LB last two years.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Do you know who else was in the final 5 last year with Johnny Robinson? I'm guessing Andy Russell was one of them.
And you would be correct. Lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey HOF guys ...... will Adrian Peterson get 1,000 yards this year?
It was so enjoyable watching him (a true lock HOFer) playing for my Redskins last year. Albeit, he's not in his prime .. but you can still see the talent, effort and character of a true star.
Also, a little tip for all of you ... go grab your Montez Sweat RC's now .. because he's the NFL's next dominant pass rusher / sack leader. #HTTR
Lastly, I'm so glad to hear the HOF will finally add a larger group of seniors to help relieve the backlog. I just hope we don't have to wait another 100 years for them to wise up and stop limiting it so much every year.
Enjoy your collection !
Any chance for Lester Hayes, Richmond Webb, or Darren Woodson in the near future?
You guys are more knowledgeable than me. Can somebody please state the case for Richmond Webb? I never thought when he was playing that he as even a borderline HOFer but what do I know.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I know the argument against him was that anybody could protect Marino with his quick release. Of course, Bruce Smith only bested Webb like 9 times in his almost 20 year career to get to Marino while playing the Dolphins twice per year. Best OL imho are the ones you never hear about, right?
90s all decade team (that's 4 NFL offensive tackles)
4X All-Pro
7X Pro Bowl
118 consecutive starts
Dolphins Ring of Honor
I honestly think his best chance is for his peers to go to bat for him.
Lester Hayes has gotten descent support in the senior committee and could very well be among the group of seniors that gets elected for the 100th anniversary of the NFL...He is in the top 2-3 CBs in the senior pool, along with Eddie Meador and Pat Fischer..
Darren Woodson has made the cut to 25 Semifinalists 3 times in his 10 years of eligibility..Problem is that he has three other Safties CLEARLY ahead of him in the current modern era pecking order. Polomalu, Lynch and At-water..If he gets in as a modern candidate its going to be closer to his final year(s) of eligibility..
Richmond Webb will discuss in next post.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Problem for Richmond Webb is where does he rank among OT's during his era? He played from 1990-2002 and was a First Team All-Pro twice...Other OT with 2 or more 1st Team All-Pro selections during this time?
Jim Lachey
Harris Barton
Willie Roaf
Gary Zimmerman
Tony Boselli
Jon Ogden
3 of these guys already in the HOF, Boselli has been in the final cut to 10 the past 3 years. Is Webb the 5th OT? Not a glowing endorsement. The All-Decade selection is nice but doesnt seem to guarantee much for second team all-decade OTs. Boselli is the other from the 90's, and he's not in yet either. Jimbo Covert was 1st Team and Joe Jacoby 2nd team All-Decade for the 1980's at OT and they are also still not in....
Its tough for OL, as there are multiple distinct position on the OL that tend to get lumped together when it comes to the voting...Not going to put the best 5 players at all 5 positions (25 OL) into the HOF for each decade....
Summary on Webb, his odds of being elected as a modern candidate EXTREMELY low, no matter who does or doesnt go to bat for him...Once he gets to the senior pool, then he will be compared to the other All-Decade guys like Jacoby and maybe someday he gets in..But no senior pool player has better than 5-10% odds of ever being elected...More of a coin flip, although a bigger class this year could help guys like Webb in the future.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thank you for summarizing what I kind of felt, that Webb was never considered elite (top 2 or 3) at Juan position while he played.
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