Of your order, I'd rank him behind Dilweg, Shofner, and Speedie, and basically even with Branch. [That the Seniors Committee has given us names like Marshall Goldberg and Dick LeBeau while Dilweg and Shofner are outside the HOF is a travesty.]
The HOF voters have nothing resembling a consistent set of standards for WR selections - Super Bowl appearances seem the closest thing to a voting standard. [Irvin and Monk sure don't get in without them, and it's the only thing really boosting Reed over Carter and Brown right now.]
Frankly, as long as HOF voters continue their love affair with electing every reasonable DL candidate (and pass-rushing LBs), the backlogs are only going to increase.
<< <i>Of your order, I'd rank him behind Dilweg, Shofner, and Speedie, and basically even with Branch. [That the Seniors Committee has given us names like Marshall Goldberg and Dick LeBeau while Dilweg and Shofner are outside the HOF is a travesty.]
The HOF voters have nothing resembling a consistent set of standards for WR selections - Super Bowl appearances seem the closest thing to a voting standard. [Irvin and Monk sure don't get in without them, and it's the only thing really boosting Reed over Carter and Brown right now.]
Frankly, as long as HOF voters continue their love affair with electing every reasonable DL candidate (and pass-rushing LBs), the backlogs are only going to increase.
Nick >>
Great points, and I totally agree...
When the senior committee expanded to getting 2 candidates vs. 1 candidate each year, it sounded great. Like they could finally right some of the wrongs and put in some guys who couldn't quite make it as a modern candidate. They have since extolled the virtues of mostly picking players who were never a modern finalist..Guys who "never got their case debated in the HOF meeting'...At this point, i'd rather go back to 1 senior, and turn the other into a coach/contributor category with 1 per year selected, and leave the 5 modern slots to modern players...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Why should there be limits based on the decade you played? You're either a HOFer or your not. Just because the 70s has the most WRs , if another player is deserving , then he should be in. FYI Hayes started his career in 1964 so his career was split btw the 2 decades. >>
Hayes played 65-75, 5 years in the 60s, 6 years in the 70's, hence "majority"...
Also, there are no "limits" per se...The exception being only 5 modern candidates allowed per year...So spots are limited...To think it doesn't play a part in the voting, would be naive. I guess the operative word here is "deserving", as it can and is measured 40+ different ways with each voter determining what "deserving" means...So when you already have 6 WRs in who played the majority of their careers from a particular decade, it gets very very murky when trying to decide if that 7th WR is actually deserving...Be one thing if there were 7 Jerry Rice clones, but there are not. So a 6th or 7th guy from one position in one decade is borderline deserving at best...You get into the Senior Pool, which ALL of the non-HOFer 70s WRs are at this point, and its even tougher, with just 2 slots from all positions from the 20s-40s-50s-60-70s...Tough choices to make...
Its a subjective process...You ask 10 people who should be in the HOF but isn't, you'll probably get 10 different answers. It's why they have the voting process, and personally, I hope they keep it from becoming a Hall of Very Good by inducting 15 player per position per decade or something...Just my opinion. >>
My mistake on Hayes rookie year 1964.....Unfortunately it is already becoming a Hall of the Very Good. It shouldn't always be about the stats. Not enough weight put on the ability to change a game. Did coaching staffs stay up late at night figuring how to stop Staubach or did they worry more about Drew Pearson? Did they worry about stopping Meredith, or Bob Hayes? I think if you put that question to every candidate, the truly deserving get in.
Agree, it has been getting more watered down due to the bad senior selections and the propensity of the HOF Committee to feel the need to fit in a borderline wildcard modern selection every year... Also agree, stats aren't everything...In fact, stats can lie pretty often when trying to evaluate a particular player.
As far as finding out who defensive coaches were game planning against, that isn't a fair way to assess a players greatness. How many D Coordinators game planned around John Hannah? And how many don't game plan to stop every single QB that takes the field?
To me the best way to determine who is most "deserving" is to compare the players dominance to others at the same position during the same era. You watch the game film and you see with your eyes who the consistently better players are. You dont compare an OT to a RB...You also dont compare 1950s WR to 2012 WR...Who made their teams better? Who was a MUST HAVE player? Then you sprinkle in some stats..Sprinkle in some "who changed the game" stuff...A little "who was feared"...Then you get a more complete picture...
Unfortunately, some of the voters on the committee are idiots. Not only that, there are a handful that I dont believe are even big fans of the NFL. Just based on what they put out through the year in their media. So they vote on name recognition or because the player gets a good intro and case made by their presenter at the HOF meeting...It's sad really.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You guys are short changing the great AFL receivers and ends that are constantly overlooked for enshrinement into the HOF.
Charlie Hennigan Lionel Taylor Art Powell
are the top three AFL guys that come to mind. The problem is, most voters and fans tend to think that pro football began with the advent of the Super Bowl era.
Agree on Howton, solid to very good player, had two great years and several solid seasons. Not a HOF'er, just outside that talent pool. I think Billy Wilson is way more deserving. Wilson was better than Tom Fears who's in the HOF already.
I think Gary Collins of the Browns is more deserving than Howton. Collins was a TD machine in the 1960's, caught 3 TD's in the '64 NFL Champ. game against the Colts. A game in which the great Johnny Unitas got outplayed by Frank Ryan I might add. Plus Collins was a pretty darn good punter too. He always overlooked. Check out his TD stats year by year in the 1960's. No one was better in that era.
<< <i>You guys are short changing the great AFL receivers and ends that are constantly overlooked for enshrinement into the HOF.
Charlie Hennigan Lionel Taylor Art Powell
are the top three AFL guys that come to mind. The problem is, most voters and fans tend to think that pro football began with the advent of the Super Bowl era.
Agree on Howton, solid to very good player, had two great years and several solid seasons. Not a HOF'er, just outside that talent pool. I think Billy Wilson is way more deserving. Wilson was better than Tom Fears who's in the HOF already.
I think Gary Collins of the Browns is more deserving than Howton. Collins was a TD machine in the 1960's, caught 3 TD's in the '64 NFL Champ. game against the Colts. A game in which the great Johnny Unitas got outplayed by Frank Ryan I might add. Plus Collins was a pretty darn good punter too. He always overlooked. Check out his TD stats year by year in the 1960's. No one was better in that era. >>
The problem with the AFL players, particularly the players who had most (or all) of their success during the first 5 years (1960-1964), is that it was an inferior talent base. It got better every year, but if you go back and watch some of the limited game films of the 60-61-62 seasons respectively, it really was like pretty minor league in comparison to what the NFL was putting on the field. By 1965, it started resembling something that could rival the NFL. If you look over the AFL players that are in the HOF, to a tee, every single one of them had success from 1965-beyond. Hennigan and Powell both were almost exclusively dominant in those early AFL years. Hennigan actually only played 95 games in his entire career...With Gale Sayers being the only post-war player with less than 100 games played in the HOF. Powell is a little closer, but realistically not even in the top 10 Senior Candidate WR's in my opinion, and like Hennigan has no place in the HOF. The senior committee has never even voted either of them to their final 15. Lionel Taylor, just didn't have enough success against better talent (1965-beyond). He put up some huge numbers from 1960-1965 in the AFL, but again, the telent level in those years...While is steadily improved each year, was really not up to NFL standards.
For these reasons, it's fools gold to even think any of these players will ever make or are truly deserving HOFers. If the slots were unlimted and they were putting 20 guys in every year, well, then they'd probably make it...But with only 2 per year in the senior pool, just based on the current senior candidates it would take 20+ years of 2 seniors going in every year, without adding ANY current modern candidates before any of these get a sniff. Johnny Robinson and Otis Taylor are probably the only AFL'ers left who have any shot of ever being elected. The conventional belief among the committee is that the AFL is more than well represented in the HOF already. For an 8-10 team league that only played 10 years before joining the NFL, they've already got 12 HOFers...That's a fairly high percentage as it is.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Would like a few opinions on a bet. I am friends with the local sports talk radio guy here in Canton. We made a bet on this years class. We each picked seven nominees. Whoever picks the most correct wins, if we pick the same, it's a push. Let's just say the bet is somewhere between 25.00 and 200.00 We picked five that were the same, Dave Robinson, Curley Culp, Bill Parcells, Johnathan Ogden and Cris Carter. So the bet basically comes down to his other two picks, vs. my other two picks. He went with Jerome Bettis and Ed DeBartolo, and I went with Larry Allen, and Warren Sapp. Remember, we don't need to be exactly right, just get MORE right than the other guy. What do guys think. Will He get more right, Will I get more right, or do you think it's a push. Thanks Very Much.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Well, I love Larry Allen's chances of getting in this year, so that should give you the edge. No way Bettis and DeBartolo both get in, so you're probably looking at a push at worst.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Would like a few opinions on a bet. I am friends with the local sports talk radio guy here in Canton. We made a bet on this years class. We each picked seven nominees. Whoever picks the most correct wins, if we pick the same, it's a push. Let's just say the bet is somewhere between 25.00 and 200.00 We picked five that were the same, Dave Robinson, Curley Culp, Bill Parcells, Johnathan Ogden and Cris Carter. So the bet basically comes down to his other two picks, vs. my other two picks. He went with Jerome Bettis and Ed DeBartolo, and I went with Larry Allen, and Warren Sapp. Remember, we don't need to be exactly right, just get MORE right than the other guy. What do guys think. Will He get more right, Will I get more right, or do you think it's a push. Thanks.
Rocke >>
Agree with Shag...I think you are looking at a push at worst...Never has the HOF put four 1st ballot guys in, and I just don't forsee a scenario where Sapp jumps Strahan AND Haley, which is what would need to happen for Sapp to get a spot this year. They really gonna put him in over Ogden (1st Raven draft pick) or Larry Allen (arguable the most dominant offensive lineman for a decade). Larry Allen's odds are much much higher than Bettis or DeBartolo IMO...I really don't see Bettis having any chance of getting on over Reed or Carter at this point. The Tim Brown votes get split somewhere, and something tells me they could go to Carter over Reed. Just unsure of how many votes he was getting in the committee among the 3. The wildcards are Modell and DeBartolo. With each of their teams in the Super Bowl, would not shock me in the least if one of them snagged the 5th modern spot over Parcells.
Sticking with my picks: Larry Allen Jon Ogden Michael Strahan Bill Parcells Andre Reed Dave Robinson
If I were a voter, my votes would go to:
Larry Allen Jon Ogden Michael Strahan Warren Sapp Cris Carter Dave Robinson Curley Culp
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Killer card. Actually looks like a 10, at least to me anyway. Offhand I don't know who the major player or players for that card are, but it obviously has some serious suitors.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Rick had started a thread on this card days ago. Above my means and I joked about payments for 20 years.
The top 2 bidders buy all the sports so its not just a FB guy.
I might say that this card could be withing your rifle sight andy. Other than that guy from australia and that other guy from Portland are 2 possibilities.
Whomever wins it...its a beaut
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells.
As far as finding out who defensive coaches were game planning against, that isn't a fair way to assess a players greatness. How many D Coordinators game planned around John Hannah? And how many don't game plan to stop every single QB that takes the field?
To me the best way to determine who is most "deserving" is to compare the players dominance to others at the same position during the same era. You watch the game film and you see with your eyes who the consistently better players are. You dont compare an OT to a RB...You also dont compare 1950s WR to 2012 WR...Who made their teams better? Who was a MUST HAVE player? Then you sprinkle in some stats..Sprinkle in some "who changed the game" stuff...A little "who was feared"...Then you get a more complete picture...
Unfortunately, some of the voters on the committee are idiots. Not only that, there are a handful that I dont believe are even big fans of the NFL. Just based on what they put out through the year in their media. So they vote on name recognition or because the player gets a good intro and case made by their presenter at the HOF meeting...It's sad really. >>
I understand what you are trying to say about game planning, and obviously a def coordinator isn't going to game plan to stop Hannah per se, but if the team has its greatest success running to Hannah's side, don't you think a coordinator has to make a special commitment to stop that? And sure, they game plan to take away a QB's strength and exploit his weakness, but game planning to stop Montana is a whole lot different than planning to stop Craig Morton. The obvious players that had to be stopped were the Jim Browns, Jerry Rices, the Lawrence Taylors, the Reggie Whites of the world---all clear cut HOFers. And this flows into the point you make about comparing dominance at the same position in the same era---agree 100%, and with everything else you added. I wonder how many of todays "stat guys" would have survived in a past era. I agree too with your remarks about the voters being idiots. I've been around lots of sports writers in my time working as a field photographer, and some of them act as though the world revolves around them. Pompous windbags....
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras? My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras? My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Both Modell and DeBartolo? I would bet against that happening...But one of them? Wouldn't shock me one bit. I do believe we will get one of Parcells/Modell/DeBartolo, but not more than one..too many strong player candidates.
Maybe Ogden will be enough to fill the Super Bowl Team quota since he was the Ravens first ever draft pick...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras? My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Well Joe, I hope you are right. With NO DeBartolo or Bettis, and with Larry Allen being elected, I win the bet.
Also, besides Joe and Nathan, are any other regular posters planning a possible trip to Canton for the 50th Anniv. Celebration ? I would like to meet some of you. It's going to be a GREAT week.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras? My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Well Joe, I hope you are right. With NO DeBartolo or Bettis, and with Larry Allen being elected, I win the bet.
Also, besides Joe and Nathan, are any other regular posters planning a possible trip to Canton for the 50th Anniv. Celebration ? I would like to meet some of you. It's going to be a GREAT week.
Rocke >>
Do you have any info on the 50th anniversary events?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey Jason, I have not heard of anything new and different that will be done this year, that the Hall, or NFL has not done in years past. For those that have never been to Canton for HOF weekend, and having lived here for a few years before the Hall opened, in my opinion, the events to really try to attend if you can make here are :
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Hey Jason, I have not heard of anything new and different that will be done this year, that the Hall, or NFL has not done in years past. For those that have never been to Canton for HOF weekend, and having lived here for a few years before the Hall opened, in my opinion, the events to really try to attend if you can make here are :
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait. >>
Sounds excellent. Moving to New Jersey in early summer and already was planning on hitting the enshrinement this year. But sounds like I may need to take the whole week. Hopefully the timing with my job works out. Sounds like a great time. For the luncheon and dinner, how far out do you need to acquire tickets to attend?
Thanks
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hey Jason, I have not heard of anything new and different that will be done this year, that the Hall, or NFL has not done in years past. For those that have never been to Canton for HOF weekend, and having lived here for a few years before the Hall opened, in my opinion, the events to really try to attend if you can make here are :
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait. >>
Rocke,
Definitely driving in from Chicago whenever Ogden gets in (hopefully this year). What can you suggest in terms of area hotels?
D.J. Well, if you are waiting until Ogden gets elected, ......... then I guess I will see you in six months. Hotels, that's tough. The NFL takes THE ENTIRE Holiday Inn, Hilton Garden Inn, Courtyard By Marriott and McKinley Grand Hotel. Usually, HOF week is the SAME week as the PGA Golf Tournament at Firestone Country Club about 12 miles to the North, and the PGA takes all of the nice Hotels in Akron. So, in thepast, friends of mine that wait to long to book have stayed in : Kent, Youngstown, Cleveland, New Philadelphia and Mansfield. These range anywhere from about 20 to 60 miles away. If you ( or anyone reading this ) knows you are coming to the 50 year Anniv. of the Hall. The I would STRONGLY suggest that you BOOK NOW. Check a site like Expedia, we have MANY other nice hotels to pick from, Comfort Inn, Hampton Inn, Micro-Tel, Red Roof etc....
Now there IS an option, if these are already booked, or they are to expensive. There are at least a dozen small Motels on Lincoln Way East, in between Canton and Massillon. I will try to get out to a few of the nicer ones, check out a room, get phone #'s, and room rates if they have any available. DO NOT try to get a phone and book a room yourself, until AFTER I go check some of them out. A few of them are total fleabag dumps. However, some of them look pretty good, but I have only ever stayed at one, and that was close to 30 years ago, when I would take my girlfriend ( now my wife ) out to one for a few hours, when we both still lived at home. I have no idea what is up with booking in advance but I will get out on Thursday and do some investigating and post what I find.
By the way, Two members of the 1963 Class are buried not to far away. Joe Carr is buried two hours to the South, in Columbus, and Pete Henry is buried 1 hour to the West, in Mansfield. Paul Brown is buried about 10 miles West of the Hall in Massillon. I have been to all three gravesites.
Marion Motley, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, Dante Lavelli, and Weeb Ewbank are also buried in Ohio. Have not been to any of these, but have exact cemetary locations of all of them.
Jason, as far as tickets, check out the Hall's website. They have tickets ( individual and multi event packages ) available. HOWEVER, anyone that wants tickets to the Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night, I would STRONGLY suggest buying them on Ebay, but MAKE SURE that your ticket is for the CIVIC CENTER Main Room for dinner. There are MANY side rooms that each hold, say 100-300 people. After Dinner, the side rooms all empty into the Main Civic Center Room, where you then sit in the auditorium seats and watch the big show that goes on. Which is a GREAT show, BUT All of the Hall of Famers and Celebrities eat in the Main Civic Center Auditorium. The Main dining room tickets WILL cost you more, but, believe me, it is worth spending the extra money.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
By the way, I am going with : Culp Robinson Ogden Allen Carter Sapp Parcells
Will be a GREAT class...just as long as the undeserving Jerome Bettis does NOT get elected.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph..... Rocke, did you nail all 7?
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph..... Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Yes, I must admit I did Joe. Check out my post from Noon today. Also, I made apost on the previous page, where I named the seven I picked, vs. a friend of mine, Sam Bourquin who is the Sports Director / afternoon sports talk show host on WHBC here in Canton. Go to the previous page to see who he picked ( he was 5 for 7 ) So I won a nice financial wager from Sammy B.
Glad you got your hotel. For those reading this, Alliance is just a few miles East of Canton. Didn't even know they had a decent hotel over their.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Looking at this year's class, IMO Sapp shouldn't have gotten in over Strahan, but both are worthy and Strahan can go in next year. Robinson was questionable IMO, but since he wasn't really competing with anyone, the problem happened months ago when he beat out Nobis et al. to be a Senior candidate. Parcells is a good pick as a contributor, BUT coaches/executives/et al. should not be taking away spots from players. They should be on a separate ballot, like MLB and the NHL do.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Congrats to the great J. Ogden - the greatest O lineman in UCLA history (with the possible exception of Donn Moomaw). Go Bruins ! How many seasons did Ogden not allow a sack while with the Ravens? Several?
<< <i>By the way, I am going with : Culp Robinson Ogden Allen Carter Sapp Parcells >>
Very impressive, Rocke . That's the first I've seen someone nail the ballot. To me Sapp was this year's wildcard. I would have figured that he'd be behind Haley and Strahan. Speaking of Strahan, I'm really happy he didn't get in first ballot. And this is coming from a lifelong Giants fan. The dude was overrated. He had a tendency to disappear in big games (or, basically for seasons at a time). And his sack record is a farce. All of that said, I do think he'll get in sooner rather than later. But there was a buzz about him getting in this year and I'm glad that didn't happen.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph..... Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Yes, I must admit I did Joe. Check out my post from Noon today. Also, I made apost on the previous page, where I named the seven I picked, vs. a friend of mine, Sam Bourquin who is the Sports Director / afternoon sports talk show host on WHBC here in Canton. Go to the previous page to see who he picked ( he was 5 for 7 ) So I won a nice financial wager from Sammy B.
Glad you got your hotel. For those reading this, Alliance is just a few miles East of Canton. Didn't even know they had a decent hotel over their.
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph..... Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Amazing how similar both Sapp and Strahans resumes are. They both 1) went to 7 Pro Bowls, 2) Were 1st Team All-PRO 4 Times, 3) Were both 2nd Team ALL-PRO 2 Times, 4) Both won One Super Bowl, 5) Both were Defensive Player of the Year One Time, 6) Both were ALL-DECADE , Strahan Once, Sapp Twice. Strahan had about 40 sacks MORE than Sapp, BUT, Strahan did play TWO more years than Sapp, AND, as we all know, it IS tougher for Deefensive tackles to get sacks than it is for Deefensive ends.
Definitely VERY close. My guess, Sapp got the 5th most votes on the cut from 10 to 5 , and Strahan was 6th on the cut frm 10 to 5. I would bet anyone 20.00 right now that Strahan gets elected next year.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph..... Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Amazing how similar both Sapp and Strahans resumes are. They both 1) went to 7 Pro Bowls, 2) Were 1st Team All-PRO 4 Times, 3) Were both 2nd Team ALL-PRO 2 Times, 4) Both won One Super Bowl, 5) Both were Defensive Player of the Year One Time, 6) Both were ALL-DECADE , Strahan Once, Sapp Twice. Strahan had about 40 sacks MORE than Sapp, BUT, Strahan did play TWO more years than Sapp, AND, as we all know, it IS tougher for Deefensive tackles to get sacks than it is for Deefensive ends.
Definitely VERY close. My guess, Sapp got the 5th most votes on the cut from 10 to 5 , and Strahan was 6th on the cut frm 10 to 5. I would bet anyone 20.00 right now that Strahan gets elected next year.
Rocke >>
Based on the first ballot guys coming next year, I would bet $200 Strahan goes in next year...Would have been much more "romantic" to put Derrick Brooks and Sapp in together next year. Then the Bucs play in the HOF Game. Dungy is up next year as well along with Marvin Harrison. Brooks is the only lock.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Derrick Brooks Michael Strahan Andre Reed Jerome Bettis Aeneas Williams
Aeneas could easily be bumped by someone else with 2 defensive guys already going in...Tony Dungy is possible. Maybe Will Shields or DeBartolo or a wildcard. I think they other 4 have an above average chance. Better than 70% each.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>My "way too early" picks for the Class of 2014.
Derrick Brooks Michael Strahan Andre Reed Jerome Bettis Aeneas Williams
Aeneas could easily be bumped by someone else with 2 defensive guys already going in...Tony Dungy is possible. Maybe Will Shields or DeBartolo or a wildcard. I think they other 4 have an above average chance. Better than 70% each. >>
My "Way to Early Las Five Modern Candidates Standing " Would be close to yours. I bump out Jerome Bettis, and put in Will Shields. Not saying At this time that all my five get in. Just that they would be the Last Five Modern picks left standing, before the YES/NO Vote.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
1- Andre Reed been waiting so long already (Monk factor) 2- Reggie Wayne's success with Manning after Harrison left
I think when he retired consensus was 1st ballot guy. Same as it was with Cris Carter. I don't think Harrison will wait long. But would be surprised if he jumped Reed. Would also be surprised if they put 2 WR in one year. Could happen i guess.
Like Rocke's pick of Shields. I think he's certainly in the top 7 next year and could easily take a spot from someone. Especially with a bunch of lineman coming up in the near future (Walter Jones, Faneca, Pace).
Zach Thomas joins the fray next year as well. I think he will eventually be a HoFer. Interested to see where he falls in the pecking order year 1. I'm sure he will be a semifinalist but does he crack the top 15 first year? True MLB, will be the only contender in the ballot until Seau and Ray Lewis come up.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I sent an e-mail to PSA today to update the set with the cards from the modern and senior sets and to vacate said cards from the modern and senior sets. Curley Culp was the only player not in these sets. Bill Parcells was a coach and requested for inclusion to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Players/Coaches/Admin set.
Has the name been changed to the NFL Hall of 'Good' yet? Curley Culp? Really? You have the same guy banging on Bettis in every post, but Curley Culp, he of 1 All Pro selection, gets in? By the way, Bettis had 2 First team All Pro selections, but he's overrated? Going back a year, Curtis Martin has 5 Pro Bowls (compared to 6 for Bettis) and 1 first team All Pro selection, and he's a slam dunk? To someone that knows a hell of a lot more about this than me, can you explain?
Seems like the selections in recent years are watering down the NFL Hall of Fame.
Anyone started to hash around the ideas for adding players to the modern set? Last year, I think it started around this time. If so, I have two suggestions for additions and feel free to shred them as you may:
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
<< <i>Has the name been changed to the NFL Hall of 'Good' yet? Curley Culp? Really? You have the same guy banging on Bettis in every post, but Curley Culp, he of 1 All Pro selection, gets in? By the way, Bettis had 2 First team All Pro selections, but he's overrated? Going back a year, Curtis Martin has 5 Pro Bowls (compared to 6 for Bettis) and 1 first team All Pro selection, and he's a slam dunk? To someone that knows a hell of a lot more about this than me, can you explain?
Seems like the selections in recent years are watering down the NFL Hall of Fame. >>
Culp was the first dominant 3-4 defensive NT. IMO he was hurt in All-Pro voting because the voters were thinking of traditional 4-3 DTs, who were much more about shooting gaps and much less about clogging the middle.
After getting a Bettis auto from Panini's Super Bowl promotion, I'm now rooting for him to make the HOF.
<< <i>Anyone started to hash around the ideas for adding players to the modern set? Last year, I think it started around this time. If so, I have two suggestions for additions and feel free to shred them as you may:
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
Look forward to hearing suggestions. >>
I would vote NO on these 2 at the moment for one reason only. Neither has played 100 NFL games yet. And the only modern era player in the HOF with less than 100 is Gale Sayers. Next year however, even if both where to only play average seasons I would fully support their addition. But under 100 games is simply too soon. What if the player never plays again? Then you have a future HOFer on the set who probably isn't ever getting in.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I would vote for no new additions to the futures sets.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Anyone started to hash around the ideas for adding players to the modern set? Last year, I think it started around this time. If so, I have two suggestions for additions and feel free to shred them as you may:
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
Look forward to hearing suggestions. >>
I would vote yes for both.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I would vote NO on these 2 at the moment for one reason only. Neither has played 100 NFL games yet. And the only modern era player in the HOF with less than 100 is Gale Sayers. Next year however, even if both where to only play average seasons I would fully support their addition. But under 100 games is simply too soon. What if the player never plays again? Then you have a future HOFer on the set who probably isn't ever getting in. >>
Forgot all about the 100 game criteria. I think it is actually in the set definition, right? That being said and in the interest of keeping the set populated with similar candidates, these two may be for next year. One more, though. Any love for Reggie Wayne? His success with "not Peyton" as his QB has to carry some weight.
<< <i>Any love for Reggie Wayne? His success with "not Peyton" as his QB has to carry some weight. >>
I forgot that he wasn't in the set yet. He would get my vote.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Comments
The HOF voters have nothing resembling a consistent set of standards for WR selections - Super Bowl appearances seem the closest thing to a voting standard. [Irvin and Monk sure don't get in without them, and it's the only thing really boosting Reed over Carter and Brown right now.]
Frankly, as long as HOF voters continue their love affair with electing every reasonable DL candidate (and pass-rushing LBs), the backlogs are only going to increase.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Of your order, I'd rank him behind Dilweg, Shofner, and Speedie, and basically even with Branch. [That the Seniors Committee has given us names like Marshall Goldberg and Dick LeBeau while Dilweg and Shofner are outside the HOF is a travesty.]
The HOF voters have nothing resembling a consistent set of standards for WR selections - Super Bowl appearances seem the closest thing to a voting standard. [Irvin and Monk sure don't get in without them, and it's the only thing really boosting Reed over Carter and Brown right now.]
Frankly, as long as HOF voters continue their love affair with electing every reasonable DL candidate (and pass-rushing LBs), the backlogs are only going to increase.
Nick >>
Great points, and I totally agree...
When the senior committee expanded to getting 2 candidates vs. 1 candidate each year, it sounded great. Like they could finally right some of the wrongs and put in some guys who couldn't quite make it as a modern candidate. They have since extolled the virtues of mostly picking players who were never a modern finalist..Guys who "never got their case debated in the HOF meeting'...At this point, i'd rather go back to 1 senior, and turn the other into a coach/contributor category with 1 per year selected, and leave the 5 modern slots to modern players...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why should there be limits based on the decade you played? You're either a HOFer or your not. Just because the 70s has the most WRs , if another player is deserving , then he should be in. FYI Hayes started his career in 1964 so his career was split btw the 2 decades. >>
Hayes played 65-75, 5 years in the 60s, 6 years in the 70's, hence "majority"...
Also, there are no "limits" per se...The exception being only 5 modern candidates allowed per year...So spots are limited...To think it doesn't play a part in the voting, would be naive. I guess the operative word here is "deserving", as it can and is measured 40+ different ways with each voter determining what "deserving" means...So when you already have 6 WRs in who played the majority of their careers from a particular decade, it gets very very murky when trying to decide if that 7th WR is actually deserving...Be one thing if there were 7 Jerry Rice clones, but there are not. So a 6th or 7th guy from one position in one decade is borderline deserving at best...You get into the Senior Pool, which ALL of the non-HOFer 70s WRs are at this point, and its even tougher, with just 2 slots from all positions from the 20s-40s-50s-60-70s...Tough choices to make...
Its a subjective process...You ask 10 people who should be in the HOF but isn't, you'll probably get 10 different answers. It's why they have the voting process, and personally, I hope they keep it from becoming a Hall of Very Good by inducting 15 player per position per decade or something...Just my opinion. >>
My mistake on Hayes rookie year 1964.....Unfortunately it is already becoming a Hall of the Very Good. It shouldn't always be about the stats. Not enough weight put on the ability to change a game. Did coaching staffs stay up late at night figuring how to stop Staubach or did they worry more about Drew Pearson? Did they worry about stopping Meredith, or Bob Hayes? I think if you put that question to every candidate, the truly deserving get in.
As far as finding out who defensive coaches were game planning against, that isn't a fair way to assess a players greatness. How many D Coordinators game planned around John Hannah? And how many don't game plan to stop every single QB that takes the field?
To me the best way to determine who is most "deserving" is to compare the players dominance to others at the same position during the same era. You watch the game film and you see with your eyes who the consistently better players are. You dont compare an OT to a RB...You also dont compare 1950s WR to 2012 WR...Who made their teams better? Who was a MUST HAVE player? Then you sprinkle in some stats..Sprinkle in some "who changed the game" stuff...A little "who was feared"...Then you get a more complete picture...
Unfortunately, some of the voters on the committee are idiots. Not only that, there are a handful that I dont believe are even big fans of the NFL. Just based on what they put out through the year in their media. So they vote on name recognition or because the player gets a good intro and case made by their presenter at the HOF meeting...It's sad really.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
for enshrinement into the HOF.
Charlie Hennigan
Lionel Taylor
Art Powell
are the top three AFL guys that come to mind.
The problem is, most voters and fans tend to
think that pro football began with the advent of the
Super Bowl era.
Agree on Howton, solid to very good player, had two great years and
several solid seasons. Not a HOF'er, just outside that talent pool.
I think Billy Wilson is way more deserving. Wilson was better than
Tom Fears who's in the HOF already.
I think Gary Collins of the Browns is more deserving than Howton.
Collins was a TD machine in the 1960's, caught 3 TD's in the '64 NFL Champ. game
against the Colts. A game in which the great Johnny Unitas got outplayed by
Frank Ryan I might add. Plus Collins was a pretty darn good punter too.
He always overlooked. Check out his TD stats year by year in the 1960's.
No one was better in that era.
<< <i>You guys are short changing the great AFL receivers and ends that are constantly overlooked
for enshrinement into the HOF.
Charlie Hennigan
Lionel Taylor
Art Powell
are the top three AFL guys that come to mind.
The problem is, most voters and fans tend to
think that pro football began with the advent of the
Super Bowl era.
Agree on Howton, solid to very good player, had two great years and
several solid seasons. Not a HOF'er, just outside that talent pool.
I think Billy Wilson is way more deserving. Wilson was better than
Tom Fears who's in the HOF already.
I think Gary Collins of the Browns is more deserving than Howton.
Collins was a TD machine in the 1960's, caught 3 TD's in the '64 NFL Champ. game
against the Colts. A game in which the great Johnny Unitas got outplayed by
Frank Ryan I might add. Plus Collins was a pretty darn good punter too.
He always overlooked. Check out his TD stats year by year in the 1960's.
No one was better in that era. >>
The problem with the AFL players, particularly the players who had most (or all) of their success during the first 5 years (1960-1964), is that it was an inferior talent base. It got better every year, but if you go back and watch some of the limited game films of the 60-61-62 seasons respectively, it really was like pretty minor league in comparison to what the NFL was putting on the field. By 1965, it started resembling something that could rival the NFL. If you look over the AFL players that are in the HOF, to a tee, every single one of them had success from 1965-beyond. Hennigan and Powell both were almost exclusively dominant in those early AFL years. Hennigan actually only played 95 games in his entire career...With Gale Sayers being the only post-war player with less than 100 games played in the HOF. Powell is a little closer, but realistically not even in the top 10 Senior Candidate WR's in my opinion, and like Hennigan has no place in the HOF. The senior committee has never even voted either of them to their final 15. Lionel Taylor, just didn't have enough success against better talent (1965-beyond). He put up some huge numbers from 1960-1965 in the AFL, but again, the telent level in those years...While is steadily improved each year, was really not up to NFL standards.
For these reasons, it's fools gold to even think any of these players will ever make or are truly deserving HOFers. If the slots were unlimted and they were putting 20 guys in every year, well, then they'd probably make it...But with only 2 per year in the senior pool, just based on the current senior candidates it would take 20+ years of 2 seniors going in every year, without adding ANY current modern candidates before any of these get a sniff. Johnny Robinson and Otis Taylor are probably the only AFL'ers left who have any shot of ever being elected. The conventional belief among the committee is that the AFL is more than well represented in the HOF already. For an 8-10 team league that only played 10 years before joining the NFL, they've already got 12 HOFers...That's a fairly high percentage as it is.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Rocke
<< <i>Would like a few opinions on a bet. I am friends with the local sports talk radio guy here in Canton. We made a bet on this years class. We each picked seven nominees. Whoever picks the most correct wins, if we pick the same, it's a push. Let's just say the bet is somewhere between 25.00 and 200.00 We picked five that were the same, Dave Robinson, Curley Culp, Bill Parcells, Johnathan Ogden and Cris Carter. So the bet basically comes down to his other two picks, vs. my other two picks. He went with Jerome Bettis and Ed DeBartolo, and I went with Larry Allen, and Warren Sapp. Remember, we don't need to be exactly right, just get MORE right than the other guy. What do guys think. Will He get more right, Will I get more right, or do you think it's a push. Thanks.
Rocke >>
Agree with Shag...I think you are looking at a push at worst...Never has the HOF put four 1st ballot guys in, and I just don't forsee a scenario where Sapp jumps Strahan AND Haley, which is what would need to happen for Sapp to get a spot this year. They really gonna put him in over Ogden (1st Raven draft pick) or Larry Allen (arguable the most dominant offensive lineman for a decade). Larry Allen's odds are much much higher than Bettis or DeBartolo IMO...I really don't see Bettis having any chance of getting on over Reed or Carter at this point. The Tim Brown votes get split somewhere, and something tells me they could go to Carter over Reed. Just unsure of how many votes he was getting in the committee among the 3. The wildcards are Modell and DeBartolo. With each of their teams in the Super Bowl, would not shock me in the least if one of them snagged the 5th modern spot over Parcells.
Sticking with my picks:
Larry Allen
Jon Ogden
Michael Strahan
Bill Parcells
Andre Reed
Dave Robinson
If I were a voter, my votes would go to:
Larry Allen
Jon Ogden
Michael Strahan
Warren Sapp
Cris Carter
Dave Robinson
Curley Culp
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Groza 10
Killer card. Actually looks like a 10, at least to me anyway. Offhand I don't know who the major player or players for that card are, but it obviously has some serious suitors.
Above my means and I joked about payments for 20 years.
The top 2 bidders buy all the sports so its not just a FB guy.
I might say that this card could be withing your rifle sight andy.
Other than that guy from australia and that other guy from Portland are 2 possibilities.
Whomever wins it...its a beaut
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
As far as finding out who defensive coaches were game planning against, that isn't a fair way to assess a players greatness. How many D Coordinators game planned around John Hannah? And how many don't game plan to stop every single QB that takes the field?
To me the best way to determine who is most "deserving" is to compare the players dominance to others at the same position during the same era. You watch the game film and you see with your eyes who the consistently better players are. You dont compare an OT to a RB...You also dont compare 1950s WR to 2012 WR...Who made their teams better? Who was a MUST HAVE player? Then you sprinkle in some stats..Sprinkle in some "who changed the game" stuff...A little "who was feared"...Then you get a more complete picture...
Unfortunately, some of the voters on the committee are idiots. Not only that, there are a handful that I dont believe are even big fans of the NFL. Just based on what they put out through the year in their media. So they vote on name recognition or because the player gets a good intro and case made by their presenter at the HOF meeting...It's sad really. >>
I understand what you are trying to say about game planning, and obviously a def coordinator isn't going to game plan to stop Hannah per se, but if the team has its greatest success running to Hannah's side, don't you think a coordinator has to make a special commitment to stop that? And sure, they game plan to take away a QB's strength and exploit his weakness, but game planning to stop Montana is a whole lot different than planning to stop Craig Morton. The obvious players that had to be stopped were the Jim Browns, Jerry Rices, the Lawrence Taylors, the Reggie Whites of the world---all clear cut HOFers. And this flows into the point you make about comparing dominance at the same position in the same era---agree 100%, and with everything else you added. I wonder how many of todays "stat guys" would have survived in a past era. I agree too with your remarks about the voters being idiots. I've been around lots of sports writers in my time working as a field photographer, and some of them act as though the world revolves around them. Pompous windbags....
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras?
My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson
<< <i>
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras?
My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Both Modell and DeBartolo? I would bet against that happening...But one of them? Wouldn't shock me one bit. I do believe we will get one of Parcells/Modell/DeBartolo, but not more than one..too many strong player candidates.
Maybe Ogden will be enough to fill the Super Bowl Team quota since he was the Ravens first ever draft pick...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras?
My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Well Joe, I hope you are right. With NO DeBartolo or Bettis, and with Larry Allen being elected, I win the bet.
Also, besides Joe and Nathan, are any other regular posters planning a possible trip to Canton for the 50th Anniv. Celebration ? I would like to meet some of you. It's going to be a GREAT week.
Rocke
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Rocke: I think you'll split with each getting one right. I think Bettis and Allen are in. I can't see Sapp getting in before Haley or Strahan and I don't see DeBartolo in before Modell, Tagliabue, Young or Parcells. >>
Does anyone think the voters get sentimental and elect both Modell and DeBartolo because their franchises are playing in the game? I'm still struggling with the selections of Culp and Robinson. Robinson over Nobis, Howley, Jordan? Culp over Karras?
My picks are Parcells, Ogden, Allen, Strahan, Modell, Robinson >>
Well Joe, I hope you are right. With NO DeBartolo or Bettis, and with Larry Allen being elected, I win the bet.
Also, besides Joe and Nathan, are any other regular posters planning a possible trip to Canton for the 50th Anniv. Celebration ? I would like to meet some of you. It's going to be a GREAT week.
Rocke >>
Do you have any info on the 50th anniversary events?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait.
<< <i>Hey Jason, I have not heard of anything new and different that will be done this year, that the Hall, or NFL has not done in years past. For those that have never been to Canton for HOF weekend, and having lived here for a few years before the Hall opened, in my opinion, the events to really try to attend if you can make here are :
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait.
Sounds excellent. Moving to New Jersey in early summer and already was planning on hitting the enshrinement this year. But sounds like I may need to take the whole week. Hopefully the timing with my job works out. Sounds like a great time. For the luncheon and dinner, how far out do you need to acquire tickets to attend?
Thanks
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hey Jason, I have not heard of anything new and different that will be done this year, that the Hall, or NFL has not done in years past. For those that have never been to Canton for HOF weekend, and having lived here for a few years before the Hall opened, in my opinion, the events to really try to attend if you can make here are :
1) The Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night. This is a GREAT evening. Open Bar, Excellent dinner, All the HOFers and Celebrities that are in Canton are there, it's a GREAT show, and this is when the new Class is presented with their GOLD Jackets. To me, it is the # 1 event.
2) The Ensrinement itself on Saturday night. No explanation needed.
3) The Parade on Saturday morning. Not as big as Macy's Thanksgiving, or the Rose Parade, BUT, it IS BIG. About 5 miles long, crowds on both sides of the street, and generally it's anywhere from 6 to 10 people deep. Either buy a bleacher ticket, or if you want to watch for free AND be in the first or 2nd row, plan on being in your lawn chair, sitting on the curb of Cleveland Ave. BEFORE 5:00 AM.
4) The Gameday Roundtable Luncheon. Held on Sunday early afternoon, I have never been to it, but everyone I have talked to that HAS been to it, LOVES it.
5) The autograph sessions. I am set up at the local ( Westfield Belden Village ) Mall for much of the weekend at the big card / memorabilia / autograph show. Some of the guys that were at the Mall in 2012 include : Sam Huff, Thurman Thomas, Leroy Kelly, Charlie Sanders, Lem Barney, Gale Sayers, Leroy Kelly, Paul Krause, Goal Line Art Artist Gary Thomas, and a couple of others. Many more at the Holiday Inn show every year right across the street from the Mall. Then the Hall and Mounted Memories always have a load of guys signing at the Hall itself, including a Class of 2013 group session that is held right after the GameDay Luncheon thing is over at the Civic Center.
I do know the Hall is hoping that ALL ( We all know it won't happen, but I do expect that it will be, by far, the largest ) number of Hall of Famers ever to attend HOF weekend. If you Love the Hall of Fame, the 50th Anniversary will definitely be a weekend to remember. I know I can't wait.
Rocke,
Definitely driving in from Chicago whenever Ogden gets in (hopefully this year). What can you suggest in terms of area hotels?
thanks,
DJ
Now there IS an option, if these are already booked, or they are to expensive. There are at least a dozen small Motels on Lincoln Way East, in between Canton and Massillon. I will try to get out to a few of the nicer ones, check out a room, get phone #'s, and room rates if they have any available. DO NOT try to get a phone and book a room yourself, until AFTER I go check some of them out. A few of them are total fleabag dumps. However, some of them look pretty good, but I have only ever stayed at one, and that was close to 30 years ago, when I would take my girlfriend ( now my wife ) out to one for a few hours, when we both still lived at home.
By the way, Two members of the 1963 Class are buried not to far away. Joe Carr is buried two hours to the South, in Columbus, and Pete Henry is buried 1 hour to the West, in Mansfield. Paul Brown is buried about 10 miles West of the Hall in Massillon. I have been to all three gravesites.
Marion Motley, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, Dante Lavelli, and Weeb Ewbank are also buried in Ohio. Have not been to any of these, but have exact cemetary locations of all of them.
Jason, as far as tickets, check out the Hall's website. They have tickets ( individual and multi event packages ) available. HOWEVER, anyone that wants tickets to the Enshrinee Civic Dinner on Friday night, I would STRONGLY suggest buying them on Ebay, but MAKE SURE that your ticket is for the CIVIC CENTER Main Room for dinner. There are MANY side rooms that each hold, say 100-300 people. After Dinner, the side rooms all empty into the Main Civic Center Room, where you then sit in the auditorium seats and watch the big show that goes on. Which is a GREAT show, BUT All of the Hall of Famers and Celebrities eat in the Main Civic Center Auditorium. The Main dining room tickets WILL cost you more, but, believe me, it is worth spending the extra money.
Rocke
Culp
Robinson
Ogden
Allen
Carter
Sapp
Parcells
Will be a GREAT class...just as long as the undeserving Jerome Bettis does NOT get elected.
Rocke
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>By the way, I am going with :
Culp
Robinson
Ogden
Allen
Carter
Sapp
Parcells
Will be a GREAT class...just as long as the undeserving Jerome Bettis does NOT get elected.
Rocke >>
You nailed them all. Amazing.
Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph.....
Rocke, did you nail all 7?
Us this link to view http://www.psacard.com/PSASETREGISTRY/publishedset.aspx?s=92990
Pm with questions.
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph.....
Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Yes, I must admit I did Joe. Check out my post from Noon today. Also, I made apost on the previous page, where I named the seven I picked, vs. a friend of mine, Sam Bourquin who is the Sports Director / afternoon sports talk show host on WHBC here in Canton. Go to the previous page to see who he picked ( he was 5 for 7 ) So I won a nice financial wager from Sammy B.
Glad you got your hotel. For those reading this, Alliance is just a few miles East of Canton. Didn't even know they had a decent hotel over their.
Rocke
Other than that, good class.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>By the way, I am going with : Culp Robinson Ogden Allen Carter Sapp Parcells >>
Very impressive, Rocke
<< <i>
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph.....
Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Yes, I must admit I did Joe. Check out my post from Noon today. Also, I made apost on the previous page, where I named the seven I picked, vs. a friend of mine, Sam Bourquin who is the Sports Director / afternoon sports talk show host on WHBC here in Canton. Go to the previous page to see who he picked ( he was 5 for 7 ) So I won a nice financial wager from Sammy B.
Glad you got your hotel. For those reading this, Alliance is just a few miles East of Canton. Didn't even know they had a decent hotel over their.
Rocke >>
Rocke, How good are you at picking stocks? HA!
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph.....
Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Amazing how similar both Sapp and Strahans resumes are. They both 1) went to 7 Pro Bowls, 2) Were 1st Team All-PRO 4 Times, 3) Were both 2nd Team ALL-PRO 2 Times, 4) Both won One Super Bowl, 5) Both were Defensive Player of the Year One Time, 6) Both were ALL-DECADE , Strahan Once, Sapp Twice. Strahan had about 40 sacks MORE than Sapp, BUT, Strahan did play TWO more years than Sapp, AND, as we all know, it IS tougher for Deefensive tackles to get sacks than it is for Deefensive ends.
Definitely VERY close. My guess, Sapp got the 5th most votes on the cut from 10 to 5 , and Strahan was 6th on the cut frm 10 to 5. I would bet anyone 20.00 right now that Strahan gets elected next year.
Rocke
<< <i>
<< <i>Booked my hotel room at the Alliance Super 8 about 3 hours ago. Its not the best hotel but good enough plus price is right. Rooms still available under $75. Can someone explain to me how the hell does Sapp get in before Strahan??? Personally, I don't think either should have gone in on their first time, but if one should have, it should have been Strahan. Oh well, on the bright side I'll have more time to search for an Art Modell autograph.....
Rocke, did you nail all 7? >>
Amazing how similar both Sapp and Strahans resumes are. They both 1) went to 7 Pro Bowls, 2) Were 1st Team All-PRO 4 Times, 3) Were both 2nd Team ALL-PRO 2 Times, 4) Both won One Super Bowl, 5) Both were Defensive Player of the Year One Time, 6) Both were ALL-DECADE , Strahan Once, Sapp Twice. Strahan had about 40 sacks MORE than Sapp, BUT, Strahan did play TWO more years than Sapp, AND, as we all know, it IS tougher for Deefensive tackles to get sacks than it is for Deefensive ends.
Definitely VERY close. My guess, Sapp got the 5th most votes on the cut from 10 to 5 , and Strahan was 6th on the cut frm 10 to 5. I would bet anyone 20.00 right now that Strahan gets elected next year.
Rocke >>
Based on the first ballot guys coming next year, I would bet $200 Strahan goes in next year...Would have been much more "romantic" to put Derrick Brooks and Sapp in together next year. Then the Bucs play in the HOF Game. Dungy is up next year as well along with Marvin Harrison. Brooks is the only lock.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Derrick Brooks
Michael Strahan
Andre Reed
Jerome Bettis
Aeneas Williams
Aeneas could easily be bumped by someone else with 2 defensive guys already going in...Tony Dungy is possible. Maybe Will Shields or DeBartolo or a wildcard. I think they other 4 have an above average chance. Better than 70% each.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>My "way too early" picks for the Class of 2014.
Derrick Brooks
Michael Strahan
Andre Reed
Jerome Bettis
Aeneas Williams
Aeneas could easily be bumped by someone else with 2 defensive guys already going in...Tony Dungy is possible. Maybe Will Shields or DeBartolo or a wildcard. I think they other 4 have an above average chance. Better than 70% each. >>
My "Way to Early Las Five Modern Candidates Standing " Would be close to yours. I bump out Jerome Bettis, and put in Will Shields. Not saying At this time that all my five get in. Just that they would be the Last Five Modern picks left standing, before the YES/NO Vote.
Rocke
<< <i>How can Marvin Harrison not be a lock? >>
1- Andre Reed been waiting so long already (Monk factor)
2- Reggie Wayne's success with Manning after Harrison left
I think when he retired consensus was 1st ballot guy. Same as it was with Cris Carter. I don't think Harrison will wait long. But would be surprised if he jumped Reed. Would also be surprised if they put 2 WR in one year. Could happen i guess.
Like Rocke's pick of Shields. I think he's certainly in the top 7 next year and could easily take a spot from someone. Especially with a bunch of lineman coming up in the near future (Walter Jones, Faneca, Pace).
Zach Thomas joins the fray next year as well. I think he will eventually be a HoFer. Interested to see where he falls in the pecking order year 1. I'm sure he will be a semifinalist but does he crack the top 15 first year? True MLB, will be the only contender in the ballot until Seau and Ray Lewis come up.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Seems like the selections in recent years are watering down the NFL Hall of Fame.
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro
Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
Look forward to hearing suggestions.
<< <i>Has the name been changed to the NFL Hall of 'Good' yet? Curley Culp? Really? You have the same guy banging on Bettis in every post, but Curley Culp, he of 1 All Pro selection, gets in? By the way, Bettis had 2 First team All Pro selections, but he's overrated? Going back a year, Curtis Martin has 5 Pro Bowls (compared to 6 for Bettis) and 1 first team All Pro selection, and he's a slam dunk? To someone that knows a hell of a lot more about this than me, can you explain?
Seems like the selections in recent years are watering down the NFL Hall of Fame. >>
Culp was the first dominant 3-4 defensive NT. IMO he was hurt in All-Pro voting because the voters were thinking of traditional 4-3 DTs, who were much more about shooting gaps and much less about clogging the middle.
After getting a Bettis auto from Panini's Super Bowl promotion, I'm now rooting for him to make the HOF.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Anyone started to hash around the ideas for adding players to the modern set? Last year, I think it started around this time. If so, I have two suggestions for additions and feel free to shred them as you may:
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro
Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
Look forward to hearing suggestions. >>
I would vote NO on these 2 at the moment for one reason only. Neither has played 100 NFL games yet. And the only modern era player in the HOF with less than 100 is Gale Sayers. Next year however, even if both where to only play average seasons I would fully support their addition. But under 100 games is simply too soon. What if the player never plays again? Then you have a future HOFer on the set who probably isn't ever getting in.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I do think both players are well on thier way
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Anyone started to hash around the ideas for adding players to the modern set? Last year, I think it started around this time. If so, I have two suggestions for additions and feel free to shred them as you may:
Joe Thomas, T, Cleveland Browns - 6 Pro Bowls (every year he has played), 3 1st Team All Pro
Patrick Willis, LB, San Francisco 49ers - 5 Pro Bowls, 4 1st Team All Pro
Look forward to hearing suggestions. >>
I would vote yes for both.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
I would vote NO on these 2 at the moment for one reason only. Neither has played 100 NFL games yet. And the only modern era player in the HOF with less than 100 is Gale Sayers. Next year however, even if both where to only play average seasons I would fully support their addition. But under 100 games is simply too soon. What if the player never plays again? Then you have a future HOFer on the set who probably isn't ever getting in. >>
Forgot all about the 100 game criteria. I think it is actually in the set definition, right? That being said and in the interest of keeping the set populated with similar candidates, these two may be for next year. One more, though. Any love for Reggie Wayne? His success with "not Peyton" as his QB has to carry some weight.
<< <i>Any love for Reggie Wayne? His success with "not Peyton" as his QB has to carry some weight. >>
I forgot that he wasn't in the set yet. He would get my vote.
<< <i>
<< <i>How can Marvin Harrison not be a lock? >>
1- Andre Reed been waiting so long already (Monk factor)
2- Reggie Wayne's success with Manning after Harrison left >>
Huh? Not sure I understand what Wayne's success has to do with Harrison.