<< <i>Would you consider SJ and Eddie George about the same caliber (ie. not very good teams)? George did make it to one Super Bowl, but that's about it for the Titans/Oilers. >>
I place Steven Jackson WAY, WAY, WAY ahead of Eddie George. Jackson's career 4.2 yards per carry average is better than George's best SEASON (4.1). Eddie George was the very definition of a plodder, while Steven Jackson has spent much of his career as a bulldozer.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I am not sure how many noticed or even cared that Steven Jackson passed 10,000 yards in his career this past weekend. A great player who has had the misfortune of playing on some terrible teams.
<< <i>
Yep, I've been paying attention, and have his Chrome RC at PSA now. . On a side note, I've had to buy several of these due to top to bottom centering issues...has anyone else noticed this? Also, I wonder if the Chrome card will even be the one used in the Registry(if applicable). His Prestige RC was an SP in that set, kinda makes me wonder what the print run was on that card.
<< <i>The request for Reggie Wayne to the all time WR group. Is that the same card we will be using for his card for the HOF Rookie set? 2001 Topps Chrome Rookie Refractor? >>
Hoping he gets added soon. Recently had an 8, and a 9 graded. I may have sold the 8...I'd have too double check, but if not, It will be available. I searched for that card for quite some time. Seems to be a tough one to locate these days.
<< <i>Would you consider SJ and Eddie George about the same caliber (ie. not very good teams)? George did make it to one Super Bowl, but that's about it for the Titans/Oilers. >>
I place Steven Jackson WAY, WAY, WAY ahead of Eddie George. Jackson's career 4.2 yards per carry average is better than George's best SEASON (4.1). Eddie George was the very definition of a plodder, while Steven Jackson has spent much of his career as a bulldozer. >>
Even as a George fan I have to agree. Jackson is much more explosive, and has kept a lot of that speed and burst deep into his career. Jackson is also a terrific receiver.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>I am not sure how many noticed or even cared that Steven Jackson passed 10,000 yards in his career this past weekend. A great player who has had the misfortune of playing on some terrible teams.
<< <i>
Yep, I've been paying attention, and have his Chrome RC at PSA now. . On a side note, I've had to buy several of these due to top to bottom centering issues...has anyone else noticed this? Also, I wonder if the Chrome card will even be the one used in the Registry(if applicable). His Prestige RC was an SP in that set, kinda makes me wonder what the print run was on that card. >>
I believe it would be Topps Chrome, the card has been selling well for the past 2 months, especially those already graded by PSA.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
FYI, the 2013 HOF Finalists should be announced tomorrow...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>FYI, the 2013 HOF Finalists should be announced tomorrow... >>
Did you see an announcement of the Finalists this weekend? I checked on the HOF website and didn't see anything. Maybe next week? >>
No, I was told all the votes were all in and tabulated. The list is typically released immediately following. Not sure what the hold up is. Maybe they are trying to turn it into an NFL Network release special or something. Although haven't heard or seen anything saying that.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think that's correct. Last year the NFL Network ran a 1-hour special to announce the HOF finalists, so they'll probably do the same this year.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I think that's correct. Last year the NFL Network ran a 1-hour special to announce the HOF finalists, so they'll probably do the same this year. >>
If anyone sees or hears the showtime for this, post here. I haven't seen anything on the network talking about it yet...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
We have not heard your HOF predictions this year ????????
by the way was it not odvius to anybody ....but was RG3 totaly unable to compete due to injury the whole 2nd half. Not his fault. He's a gamer. Instead of waiting for him to totally blow out his leg and throw cousins into the lions den.....
Why not let him go at it earlier and get a read on the game. What if they won...now RG3 may not be able to play the next game.
Shanahan is 100% to blame for that loss.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
We have not heard your HOF predictions this year ????????
by the way was it not odvius to anybody ....but was RG3 totaly unable to compete due to injury the whole 2nd half. Not his fault. He's a gamer. Instead of waiting for him to totally blow out his leg and throw cousins into the lions den.....
Why not let him go at it earlier and get a read on the game. What if they won...now RG3 may not be able to play the next game.
Shanahan is 100% to blame for that loss. >>
Thanks Jay, been too long for sure. Agree on Shanahan...He will sell his first born for a playoff win...Ask Terrell Davis.
My predictions for Class of 2013:
Larry Allen Jon Ogden Michael Strahan Bill Parcells Andre Reed
Outside chance at making a run to the final 5: Aeneas Williams Jerome Bettis Paul Tagliabue
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
According to the HOF web site, the finalists are going to be announced live Friday morning (doesn't specify what time) on Twitter:
ProFootballHOF Tune in to @NFL_AM tomorrow morning for the live announcement of our 15 Finalists for #PFHOF13.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>According to the HOF web site, the finalists are going to be announced live Friday morning (doesn't specify what time) on Twitter:
ProFootballHOF Tune in to @NFL_AM tomorrow morning for the live announcement of our 15 Finalists for #PFHOF13. >>
Cool, thanks for the heads up!
NFL AM is the NFL Network show right?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Andre Reed Cris Carter Tim Brown Jerome Bettis Will Shields Jon Ogden Larry Allen Charles Haley Aeneas Williams Michael Strahan Warren Sapp Kevin Greene Bill Parcells Ed DeBartalo Jr. Paul Tagliabue
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think you got 'em al right except for Modell in place of Tagliabue.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Larry Allen Jerome Bettis Tim Brown Chris Carter Curley Culp* Ed DeBartolo, Jr. Kevin Greene Charles Haley Art Modell Jonathan Ogden Bill Parcells Andre Reed Dave Robinson* Warren Sapp Will Shields Michael Strahan Aneas Williams
Yeah, this year was fairly easy to predict. Will go ahead and take my shot at predicting the electees..
I think we get 1 electee from each of these groups. And I will rank them in the order I think they will fall in the voting:
Offensive skill players- Andre Reed, Cris Carter, Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown Offensive Lineman- Jon Ogden, Larry Allen, Will Shields Defensive players- Michael Strahan, Charley Haley, Aeneas Williams, Warren Sapp, Kevin Greene Coach/Owners- Bill Parcells, Ed DeBartalo Jr., Art Modell
Between the skill players, Reed has been ahead of Carter in the votes the past 3 years. Prior to that Carter was getting more support. I think they really need to break the WR logjam as Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Terell Owens, Hines Ward..All coming up the next few years...And since Reed has been getting more support, I think this is the year he gets in. Personally I'd vote Carter before Reed. Now if they choose to continue the WR hate, Bettis could slip in.
Offensive lineman, I think they will put both Ogden and Allen in first ballot. This would take 2 additional spots. Of course they could always choose a wildcard as the 5th guy if these 2 split votes somehow. Voters could also choose to go with Shields as he's been on the ballot a couple of years already, but due to the dominance of the top 2, I simply dont see that happening this year.
Defensive players, Haley has been ahead of Greene in the pash rusher category, but I think Strahan bypasses both. As stated above, maybe they decide to get Haley in first instead. With Haley making it to the final 10 last year, i think its about a 50/50 proposition. Sapp is a tough one. I think he will get in, but is he first ballot? Considering they put in a DT last year with Kennedy, as well as the fact that Derrick Brooks and Dungy come up next year, with the possibility of putting all 3 of them in together...Sapp's odds seem fairly low, but not impossible. Williams also made the cut to the final 10 last year..If the voters end up spliting votes among the pass rushers, Williams could easily sneak in.
Coach/Owners...Had been hearing many positive things about Tagliabue. Not making the finals this year, I think says he's got a long long wait ahead. Parcells made the final 10 last year. The only reason he's not in already is the voters don;t want another Joe Gibbs situation, a HOF inductee back coaching. Parcells has made the rounds lately assuring voters he's 100% done being a coach. i think that will be enough to rightly but him in as a slam dunk. Could easily see one of the owners, specifically Modell being a wildcard for the 5th spot if the end up going with only 1 O-Lineman.
Not expecting any shockers this year like we've had the last couple. But if we have learned anything from the group of HOF voters is that they like to raise eyebrows.
For the seniors, I think both should get th evotes, with Robinson being a slam dunk in my eyes. But you just never know with the seniors.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hmmm. Will the Super Bowl matchup bode well for anyone's candidacy?
I figure Ogden was the closest to a lock on this year's ballot even before the Ravens made it, but Haley, DeBartolo, and Modell could all benefit. Or might it harm Modell's chances?
Good question, Nick. I hope it helps get Haley over the hump. He's waited long enough.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I would think DeBartolo and Modell get the biggest push from this. If you noticed during the Ravens celebration, many were wearing Art Modell shirts, including Ray Lewis.
As stated above, Ogden was already going in...Does Haley get pushed over Strahan because of it? Not impossible, but I don't see it.
We've had a wildcard choice each of the last few years...If we get one this year, I expect it will be DeBartolo or Modell.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm not so sure Tim Brown is or was ever going to get in...Doesn't hurt that Jerry Rice is somewhat backing him...But He's already third in the WR line with Harrison, Bruce, Holt, T.O. all coming up in the next few years...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It would really be unfortunate if a guy who was top 3 in career yards, catches and TDs at his retirement didn't make it.
Hope you guys are right about Dave Robinson. >>
I think many of these high stat receivers of the 90s/00s are going to find the going pretty tough into the HOF....Its such a double edged sword. You have guys like Cliff Branch and Drew Pearson, who have the accolades and resumes but don't get in because they don't have the "numbers" that the current guys are putting up....Then you have the Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, even Terrell Owens who have the gaudy numbers, and may also get punished for having them or rather for the era in which they played...
Receivers, Safeties, Offensive Guards, Kickers/Punters....Not sure if "unfair" is the correct word, but how they are graded and analyzed sure seems that way sometimes...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
All too true. Deserving '70's WRs who aren't in is a doctoral dissertation quality subject. Branch and Pearson (along with Otis Taylor) are probably at the front of the line but it's a long one.
<< <i>All too true. Deserving '70's WRs who aren't in is a doctoral dissertation quality subject. Branch and Pearson (along with Otis Taylor) are probably at the front of the line but it's a long one. >>
I put Harold Jackson in this group too, many even at the top of the list.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Don't forget about Del Shofner and Lavie Dillweg...Only WR's in NFL history with more than 4 First Team All-Pro selections yet are NOT in the HOF...(Lionel Taylor also has 4, but all 4 are AFL First Team)
Of course, all of these guys, to include all the 70s guys are no longer modern candidates and can only be selected by the Senior Committee.
Terrell Owens (5) and Randy Moss (4) are not yet eligible.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Wow...Getting pretty deep in the weeds here...Let's look at it from a different perspective...
HOF WRs who played the majority of their career in the 1960s: Lance Alworth Raymond Berry Bobby Mitchell Don Maynard Tommy McDonald
So 5 players....
Majority of their careers in the 1970s: Paul Warfield Fred Biletnikoff Bob Hayes Charley Taylor Lynn Swann Charlie Joiner
6 WRs from the 1970s in the HOF...
Now for the 1980s: James Lofton Steve Largent John Stallworth Art Monk
Just 4 from the 1980s so far...
And the 1990s: Jerry Rice Michael Irvin
Only 2!!
Of the current group of modern candidates, you have Andre Reed, Cris Carter and Tim Brown as the only eligible WRs close. All 3 1990s guys...All future up and comers like Harrison, Bruce, TO, Moss..2000's guys...
So I guess the question that comes to mind....How many from a decade at one position is enough? 1970's already has more than any other decade...I think this has and will continue to keep other 1970s guys out of the HOF...(Branch, Pearson, Otis Taylor)...As of this moment, 6 from a decade is the mendoza line so to speak...From the 1960's you have 5 in...Could the senior committee pick another WR (they got Bob Hayes elected recently)...Possible...Maybe Shofner gets a sniff one day, but probably going to be awhile if ever...
Brings us to the 1980s..Only 4 get in? Less the the 70s, which was clearly a run first decade? Looking that way....No one with a majority 80s career on the radar. Moving into the 90s, just 2 so far...If Reed, Carter AND Brown get in, still only 5...Anyone else realistically ever getting in? Jimmy Smith? Not looking likely...
So what of the 2000s? Top candidates? Harrison, Owens, Moss, Bruce, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne...Somewhere between 4-6 of these likley getting in out of these ...But after the top 3, how do you choose...And I dont think any of them are going first ballot...
Its an interesting subject...But we have to remember as we throw out names, how exclusive or inclusive do you think it should be? And relaistically looking at the numbers, how inclusive/exclusive will it actually get to be?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Wow...Getting pretty deep in the weeds here...Let's look at it from a different perspective...
HOF WRs who played the majority of their career in the 1960s: Lance Alworth Raymond Berry Bobby Mitchell Don Maynard Tommy McDonald
So 5 players....
Majority of their careers in the 1970s: Paul Warfield Fred Biletnikoff Bob Hayes Charley Taylor Lynn Swann Charlie Joiner
6 WRs from the 1970s in the HOF...
Now for the 1980s: James Lofton Steve Largent John Stallworth Art Monk
Just 4 from the 1980s so far...
And the 1990s: Jerry Rice Michael Irvin
Only 2!!
Of the current group of modern candidates, you have Andre Reed, Cris Carter and Tim Brown as the only eligible WRs close. All 3 1990s guys...All future up and comers like Harrison, Bruce, TO, Moss..2000's guys...
So I guess the question that comes to mind....How many from a decade at one position is enough? 1970's already has more than any other decade...I think this has and will continue to keep other 1970s guys out of the HOF...(Branch, Pearson, Otis Taylor)...As of this moment, 6 from a decade is the mendoza line so to speak...From the 1960's you have 5 in...Could the senior committee pick another WR (they got Bob Hayes elected recently)...Possible...Maybe Shofner gets a sniff one day, but probably going to be awhile if ever...
Brings us to the 1980s..Only 4 get in? Less the the 70s, which was clearly a run first decade? Looking that way....No one with a majority 80s career on the radar. Moving into the 90s, just 2 so far...If Reed, Carter AND Brown get in, still only 5...Anyone else realistically ever getting in? Jimmy Smith? Not looking likely...
So what of the 2000s? Top candidates? Harrison, Owens, Moss, Bruce, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne...Somewhere between 4-6 of these likley getting in out of these ...But after the top 3, how do you choose...And I dont think any of them are going first ballot...
Its an interesting subject...But we have to remember as we throw out names, how exclusive or inclusive do you think it should be? And relaistically looking at the numbers, how inclusive/exclusive will it actually get to be? >>
I have to agree that it will be hard sledding for many WRs. Add in some of the talent at TE that were mainly WRs, Gates and Gonzo. In the 90s and 2000s we also saw some clear defensive players and Oline that are very deserving first ballot types or close. Maybe we will see a little purging of those two spots while the WR sit for a bit.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I think Billy Howton needs to be considered too. I believe he retired #1 in yards and receptions at his retirement. >>
I'm a strong supporter of Howton's candidacy too.
The WR position is becoming a redheaded stepchild for HOF voters - I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Harrison is the next one they put in.
Nick >>
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Why should there be limits based on the decade you played? You're either a HOFer or your not. Just because the 70s has the most WRs , if another player is deserving , then he should be in. FYI Hayes started his career in 1964 so his career was split btw the 2 decades.
<< <i>Why should there be limits based on the decade you played? You're either a HOFer or your not. Just because the 70s has the most WRs , if another player is deserving , then he should be in. FYI Hayes started his career in 1964 so his career was split btw the 2 decades. >>
Hayes played 65-75, 5 years in the 60s, 6 years in the 70's, hence "majority"...
Also, there are no "limits" per se...The exception being only 5 modern candidates allowed per year...So spots are limited...To think it doesn't play a part in the voting, would be naive. I guess the operative word here is "deserving", as it can and is measured 40+ different ways with each voter determining what "deserving" means...So when you already have 6 WRs in who played the majority of their careers from a particular decade, it gets very very murky when trying to decide if that 7th WR is actually deserving...Be one thing if there were 7 Jerry Rice clones, but there are not. So a 6th or 7th guy from one position in one decade is borderline deserving at best...You get into the Senior Pool, which ALL of the non-HOFer 70s WRs are at this point, and its even tougher, with just 2 slots from all positions from the 20s-40s-50s-60-70s...Tough choices to make...
Its a subjective process...You ask 10 people who should be in the HOF but isn't, you'll probably get 10 different answers. It's why they have the voting process, and personally, I hope they keep it from becoming a Hall of Very Good by inducting 15 player per position per decade or something...Just my opinion.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I think Billy Howton needs to be considered too. I believe he retired #1 in yards and receptions at his retirement. >>
I'm a strong supporter of Howton's candidacy too.
The WR position is becoming a redheaded stepchild for HOF voters - I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Harrison is the next one they put in.
Nick >>
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF. >>
Howton's problem is that Vince Lombardi traded him away, and according to some writers who worship Vince, that must mean he wasn't very good - as opposed to the fact that Howton was NFLPA head and Lombardi was adamantly opposed to the existence of a player's union.
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF. >>
Howton's problem is that Vince Lombardi traded him away, and according to some writers who worship Vince, that must mean he wasn't very good - as opposed to the fact that Howton was NFLPA head and Lombardi was adamantly opposed to the existence of a player's union.
Nick >>
He put up some big numbers.1,000+ his rookie year and the only receiver with 1,000 in the NFL that season...While your account of Lombardi trading him is entirely plausible looking back. But even DURING his 7 years with the Packers he was only chosen twice as a 1st Team All-Pro receiver. Obviously, All-Pro isn't everything, but when looking back at players who don;t have a ton of footage to watch, its really the only way to compare them with their peers of the time. All-Pro's picked every year by the football writers that watch those players during that year. So for me, I think it's fair to value their opinions over yours or mine.
4 Pro Bowls and 2 First Team All-Pro selections over a 12 year career just doesn't scream "lock" HOFer...Borderline candidate at best, and I'd rather have borderline guys NOT in vs. putting them all in.
Maybe he gets a shot one day as a Senior..Personally I'd but quite a few Senior Receiver candidates in before him. Otis Taylor, Billy Wilson, Lavie Dillweg, Mac Speedie, Cliff Branch, Drew Pearson, Del Shofner...Then Howton...Thats just my order though, and I'm not a voter. If he comes up and they put him in after these guys, I would have no complaint.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
<< <i>Would you consider SJ and Eddie George about the same caliber (ie. not very good teams)? George did make it to one Super Bowl, but that's about it for the Titans/Oilers. >>
I place Steven Jackson WAY, WAY, WAY ahead of Eddie George. Jackson's career 4.2 yards per carry average is better than George's best SEASON (4.1). Eddie George was the very definition of a plodder, while Steven Jackson has spent much of his career as a bulldozer.
<< <i>I am not sure how many noticed or even cared that Steven Jackson passed 10,000 yards in his career this past weekend. A great player who has had the misfortune of playing on some terrible teams.
<< <i>
Yep, I've been paying attention, and have his Chrome RC at PSA now.
<< <i>The request for Reggie Wayne to the all time WR group. Is that the same card we will be using for his card for the HOF Rookie set? 2001 Topps Chrome Rookie Refractor? >>
Hoping he gets added soon. Recently had an 8, and a 9 graded. I may have sold the 8...I'd have too double check, but if not, It will be available. I searched for that card for quite some time. Seems to be a tough one to locate these days.
Unopened Boxes, Packs, Cards, and Tickets
Just send me a PM or email me for discount off eBay pricing. Thanks
He's more of a better Walt garrison.
S jackson is in the hall of very good right now. At times shows runs of brilliance.
Give him a few more years and build up some stats.....definately.
The jaw dropper of latter years is clearly Adrian Peterson
I had better get my ars going....I don't have any of the cards mentioned above.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you consider SJ and Eddie George about the same caliber (ie. not very good teams)? George did make it to one Super Bowl, but that's about it for the Titans/Oilers. >>
I place Steven Jackson WAY, WAY, WAY ahead of Eddie George. Jackson's career 4.2 yards per carry average is better than George's best SEASON (4.1). Eddie George was the very definition of a plodder, while Steven Jackson has spent much of his career as a bulldozer. >>
Even as a George fan I have to agree. Jackson is much more explosive, and has kept a lot of that speed and burst deep into his career. Jackson is also a terrific receiver.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am not sure how many noticed or even cared that Steven Jackson passed 10,000 yards in his career this past weekend. A great player who has had the misfortune of playing on some terrible teams.
<< <i>
Yep, I've been paying attention, and have his Chrome RC at PSA now.
I believe it would be Topps Chrome, the card has been selling well for the past 2 months, especially those already graded by PSA.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>FYI, the 2013 HOF Finalists should be announced tomorrow... >>
Did you see an announcement of the Finalists this weekend? I checked on the HOF website and didn't see anything. Maybe next week?
<< <i>
<< <i>FYI, the 2013 HOF Finalists should be announced tomorrow... >>
Did you see an announcement of the Finalists this weekend? I checked on the HOF website and didn't see anything. Maybe next week? >>
No, I was told all the votes were all in and tabulated. The list is typically released immediately following. Not sure what the hold up is. Maybe they are trying to turn it into an NFL Network release special or something. Although haven't heard or seen anything saying that.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I think that's correct. Last year the NFL Network ran a 1-hour special to announce the HOF finalists, so they'll probably do the same this year. >>
If anyone sees or hears the showtime for this, post here. I haven't seen anything on the network talking about it yet...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
We have not heard your HOF predictions this year ????????
by the way was it not odvius to anybody ....but was RG3 totaly unable to compete due to injury the whole 2nd half.
Not his fault. He's a gamer. Instead of waiting for him to totally blow out his leg and throw cousins into the lions den.....
Why not let him go at it earlier and get a read on the game. What if they won...now RG3 may not be able to play the next game.
Shanahan is 100% to blame for that loss.
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<< <i>Glad 2 c ur posting again Jason.
We have not heard your HOF predictions this year ????????
by the way was it not odvius to anybody ....but was RG3 totaly unable to compete due to injury the whole 2nd half.
Not his fault. He's a gamer. Instead of waiting for him to totally blow out his leg and throw cousins into the lions den.....
Why not let him go at it earlier and get a read on the game. What if they won...now RG3 may not be able to play the next game.
Shanahan is 100% to blame for that loss. >>
Thanks Jay, been too long for sure. Agree on Shanahan...He will sell his first born for a playoff win...Ask Terrell Davis.
My predictions for Class of 2013:
Larry Allen
Jon Ogden
Michael Strahan
Bill Parcells
Andre Reed
Outside chance at making a run to the final 5:
Aeneas Williams
Jerome Bettis
Paul Tagliabue
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Thanks Jay, been too long for sure. Agree on Shanahan...He will sell his first born for a playoff win...Ask Terrell Davis.
>>
I think he is on the 4th or 5th born by now.
ProFootballHOF Tune in to @NFL_AM tomorrow morning for the live announcement of our 15 Finalists for #PFHOF13.
<< <i>According to the HOF web site, the finalists are going to be announced live Friday morning (doesn't specify what time) on Twitter:
ProFootballHOF Tune in to @NFL_AM tomorrow morning for the live announcement of our 15 Finalists for #PFHOF13. >>
Cool, thanks for the heads up!
NFL AM is the NFL Network show right?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Andre Reed
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Jerome Bettis
Will Shields
Jon Ogden
Larry Allen
Charles Haley
Aeneas Williams
Michael Strahan
Warren Sapp
Kevin Greene
Bill Parcells
Ed DeBartalo Jr.
Paul Tagliabue
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Larry Allen
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Chris Carter
Curley Culp*
Ed DeBartolo, Jr.
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Art Modell
Jonathan Ogden
Bill Parcells
Andre Reed
Dave Robinson*
Warren Sapp
Will Shields
Michael Strahan
Aneas Williams
*Seniors Committee Selections
I think we get 1 electee from each of these groups. And I will rank them in the order I think they will fall in the voting:
Offensive skill players- Andre Reed, Cris Carter, Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown
Offensive Lineman- Jon Ogden, Larry Allen, Will Shields
Defensive players- Michael Strahan, Charley Haley, Aeneas Williams, Warren Sapp, Kevin Greene
Coach/Owners- Bill Parcells, Ed DeBartalo Jr., Art Modell
Between the skill players, Reed has been ahead of Carter in the votes the past 3 years. Prior to that Carter was getting more support. I think they really need to break the WR logjam as Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Terell Owens, Hines Ward..All coming up the next few years...And since Reed has been getting more support, I think this is the year he gets in. Personally I'd vote Carter before Reed. Now if they choose to continue the WR hate, Bettis could slip in.
Offensive lineman, I think they will put both Ogden and Allen in first ballot. This would take 2 additional spots. Of course they could always choose a wildcard as the 5th guy if these 2 split votes somehow. Voters could also choose to go with Shields as he's been on the ballot a couple of years already, but due to the dominance of the top 2, I simply dont see that happening this year.
Defensive players, Haley has been ahead of Greene in the pash rusher category, but I think Strahan bypasses both. As stated above, maybe they decide to get Haley in first instead. With Haley making it to the final 10 last year, i think its about a 50/50 proposition. Sapp is a tough one. I think he will get in, but is he first ballot? Considering they put in a DT last year with Kennedy, as well as the fact that Derrick Brooks and Dungy come up next year, with the possibility of putting all 3 of them in together...Sapp's odds seem fairly low, but not impossible. Williams also made the cut to the final 10 last year..If the voters end up spliting votes among the pass rushers, Williams could easily sneak in.
Coach/Owners...Had been hearing many positive things about Tagliabue. Not making the finals this year, I think says he's got a long long wait ahead. Parcells made the final 10 last year. The only reason he's not in already is the voters don;t want another Joe Gibbs situation, a HOF inductee back coaching. Parcells has made the rounds lately assuring voters he's 100% done being a coach. i think that will be enough to rightly but him in as a slam dunk. Could easily see one of the owners, specifically Modell being a wildcard for the 5th spot if the end up going with only 1 O-Lineman.
Not expecting any shockers this year like we've had the last couple. But if we have learned anything from the group of HOF voters is that they like to raise eyebrows.
For the seniors, I think both should get th evotes, with Robinson being a slam dunk in my eyes. But you just never know with the seniors.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
My predictions are
Larry Allen
Charles Haley
Jonathan Ogden
Bill Parcells
Dave Robinson
Michael Strahan
Nick
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I figure Ogden was the closest to a lock on this year's ballot even before the Ravens made it, but Haley, DeBartolo, and Modell could all benefit.
Or might it harm Modell's chances?
Nick
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As stated above, Ogden was already going in...Does Haley get pushed over Strahan because of it? Not impossible, but I don't see it.
We've had a wildcard choice each of the last few years...If we get one this year, I expect it will be DeBartolo or Modell.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Tim Brown sabatoges his HOF chances >>
I'm not so sure Tim Brown is or was ever going to get in...Doesn't hurt that Jerry Rice is somewhat backing him...But He's already third in the WR line with Harrison, Bruce, Holt, T.O. all coming up in the next few years...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hope you guys are right about Dave Robinson.
<< <i>It would really be unfortunate if a guy who was top 3 in career yards, catches and TDs at his retirement didn't make it.
Hope you guys are right about Dave Robinson. >>
I think many of these high stat receivers of the 90s/00s are going to find the going pretty tough into the HOF....Its such a double edged sword. You have guys like Cliff Branch and Drew Pearson, who have the accolades and resumes but don't get in because they don't have the "numbers" that the current guys are putting up....Then you have the Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, even Terrell Owens who have the gaudy numbers, and may also get punished for having them or rather for the era in which they played...
Receivers, Safeties, Offensive Guards, Kickers/Punters....Not sure if "unfair" is the correct word, but how they are graded and analyzed sure seems that way sometimes...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>All too true. Deserving '70's WRs who aren't in is a doctoral dissertation quality subject. Branch and Pearson (along with Otis Taylor) are probably at the front of the line but it's a long one. >>
I put Harold Jackson in this group too, many even at the top of the list.
<< <i>I put Harold Jackson in this group too [...] >>
So do I.
People do not understand how hard it was to catch passes with hombres like Willie Brown and Lem Barney trying to brain you on every route.
Of course, all of these guys, to include all the 70s guys are no longer modern candidates and can only be selected by the Senior Committee.
Terrell Owens (5) and Randy Moss (4) are not yet eligible.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
HOF WRs who played the majority of their career in the 1960s:
Lance Alworth
Raymond Berry
Bobby Mitchell
Don Maynard
Tommy McDonald
So 5 players....
Majority of their careers in the 1970s:
Paul Warfield
Fred Biletnikoff
Bob Hayes
Charley Taylor
Lynn Swann
Charlie Joiner
6 WRs from the 1970s in the HOF...
Now for the 1980s:
James Lofton
Steve Largent
John Stallworth
Art Monk
Just 4 from the 1980s so far...
And the 1990s:
Jerry Rice
Michael Irvin
Only 2!!
Of the current group of modern candidates, you have Andre Reed, Cris Carter and Tim Brown as the only eligible WRs close. All 3 1990s guys...All future up and comers like Harrison, Bruce, TO, Moss..2000's guys...
So I guess the question that comes to mind....How many from a decade at one position is enough? 1970's already has more than any other decade...I think this has and will continue to keep other 1970s guys out of the HOF...(Branch, Pearson, Otis Taylor)...As of this moment, 6 from a decade is the mendoza line so to speak...From the 1960's you have 5 in...Could the senior committee pick another WR (they got Bob Hayes elected recently)...Possible...Maybe Shofner gets a sniff one day, but probably going to be awhile if ever...
Brings us to the 1980s..Only 4 get in? Less the the 70s, which was clearly a run first decade? Looking that way....No one with a majority 80s career on the radar. Moving into the 90s, just 2 so far...If Reed, Carter AND Brown get in, still only 5...Anyone else realistically ever getting in? Jimmy Smith? Not looking likely...
So what of the 2000s? Top candidates? Harrison, Owens, Moss, Bruce, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne...Somewhere between 4-6 of these likley getting in out of these ...But after the top 3, how do you choose...And I dont think any of them are going first ballot...
Its an interesting subject...But we have to remember as we throw out names, how exclusive or inclusive do you think it should be? And relaistically looking at the numbers, how inclusive/exclusive will it actually get to be?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Wow...Getting pretty deep in the weeds here...Let's look at it from a different perspective...
HOF WRs who played the majority of their career in the 1960s:
Lance Alworth
Raymond Berry
Bobby Mitchell
Don Maynard
Tommy McDonald
So 5 players....
Majority of their careers in the 1970s:
Paul Warfield
Fred Biletnikoff
Bob Hayes
Charley Taylor
Lynn Swann
Charlie Joiner
6 WRs from the 1970s in the HOF...
Now for the 1980s:
James Lofton
Steve Largent
John Stallworth
Art Monk
Just 4 from the 1980s so far...
And the 1990s:
Jerry Rice
Michael Irvin
Only 2!!
Of the current group of modern candidates, you have Andre Reed, Cris Carter and Tim Brown as the only eligible WRs close. All 3 1990s guys...All future up and comers like Harrison, Bruce, TO, Moss..2000's guys...
So I guess the question that comes to mind....How many from a decade at one position is enough? 1970's already has more than any other decade...I think this has and will continue to keep other 1970s guys out of the HOF...(Branch, Pearson, Otis Taylor)...As of this moment, 6 from a decade is the mendoza line so to speak...From the 1960's you have 5 in...Could the senior committee pick another WR (they got Bob Hayes elected recently)...Possible...Maybe Shofner gets a sniff one day, but probably going to be awhile if ever...
Brings us to the 1980s..Only 4 get in? Less the the 70s, which was clearly a run first decade? Looking that way....No one with a majority 80s career on the radar. Moving into the 90s, just 2 so far...If Reed, Carter AND Brown get in, still only 5...Anyone else realistically ever getting in? Jimmy Smith? Not looking likely...
So what of the 2000s? Top candidates? Harrison, Owens, Moss, Bruce, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, Reggie Wayne...Somewhere between 4-6 of these likley getting in out of these ...But after the top 3, how do you choose...And I dont think any of them are going first ballot...
Its an interesting subject...But we have to remember as we throw out names, how exclusive or inclusive do you think it should be? And relaistically looking at the numbers, how inclusive/exclusive will it actually get to be? >>
I have to agree that it will be hard sledding for many WRs. Add in some of the talent at TE that were mainly WRs, Gates and Gonzo. In the 90s and 2000s we also saw some clear defensive players and Oline that are very deserving first ballot types or close. Maybe we will see a little purging of those two spots while the WR sit for a bit.
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<< <i>I think Billy Howton needs to be considered too. I believe he retired #1 in yards and receptions at his retirement. >>
I'm a strong supporter of Howton's candidacy too.
The WR position is becoming a redheaded stepchild for HOF voters - I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Harrison is the next one they put in.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I think Billy Howton needs to be considered too. I believe he retired #1 in yards and receptions at his retirement. >>
I'm a strong supporter of Howton's candidacy too.
The WR position is becoming a redheaded stepchild for HOF voters - I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Harrison is the next one they put in.
Nick >>
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Why should there be limits based on the decade you played? You're either a HOFer or your not. Just because the 70s has the most WRs , if another player is deserving , then he should be in. FYI Hayes started his career in 1964 so his career was split btw the 2 decades. >>
Hayes played 65-75, 5 years in the 60s, 6 years in the 70's, hence "majority"...
Also, there are no "limits" per se...The exception being only 5 modern candidates allowed per year...So spots are limited...To think it doesn't play a part in the voting, would be naive. I guess the operative word here is "deserving", as it can and is measured 40+ different ways with each voter determining what "deserving" means...So when you already have 6 WRs in who played the majority of their careers from a particular decade, it gets very very murky when trying to decide if that 7th WR is actually deserving...Be one thing if there were 7 Jerry Rice clones, but there are not. So a 6th or 7th guy from one position in one decade is borderline deserving at best...You get into the Senior Pool, which ALL of the non-HOFer 70s WRs are at this point, and its even tougher, with just 2 slots from all positions from the 20s-40s-50s-60-70s...Tough choices to make...
Its a subjective process...You ask 10 people who should be in the HOF but isn't, you'll probably get 10 different answers. It's why they have the voting process, and personally, I hope they keep it from becoming a Hall of Very Good by inducting 15 player per position per decade or something...Just my opinion.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think Billy Howton needs to be considered too. I believe he retired #1 in yards and receptions at his retirement. >>
I'm a strong supporter of Howton's candidacy too.
The WR position is becoming a redheaded stepchild for HOF voters - I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin Harrison is the next one they put in.
Nick >>
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF. >>
Howton's problem is that Vince Lombardi traded him away, and according to some writers who worship Vince, that must mean he wasn't very good - as opposed to the fact that Howton was NFLPA head and Lombardi was adamantly opposed to the existence of a player's union.
Nick
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<< <i>
By my records, Howton has not made the top 15 Senior finalists once in the past 10 years...you would need to expand the HOF inductees to 10 per year to get him in...Nice player, one of the first receivers with career longevity, but not a HOF talent based on the current size of the HOF. >>
Howton's problem is that Vince Lombardi traded him away, and according to some writers who worship Vince, that must mean he wasn't very good - as opposed to the fact that Howton was NFLPA head and Lombardi was adamantly opposed to the existence of a player's union.
Nick >>
He put up some big numbers.1,000+ his rookie year and the only receiver with 1,000 in the NFL that season...While your account of Lombardi trading him is entirely plausible looking back. But even DURING his 7 years with the Packers he was only chosen twice as a 1st Team All-Pro receiver. Obviously, All-Pro isn't everything, but when looking back at players who don;t have a ton of footage to watch, its really the only way to compare them with their peers of the time. All-Pro's picked every year by the football writers that watch those players during that year. So for me, I think it's fair to value their opinions over yours or mine.
4 Pro Bowls and 2 First Team All-Pro selections over a 12 year career just doesn't scream "lock" HOFer...Borderline candidate at best, and I'd rather have borderline guys NOT in vs. putting them all in.
Maybe he gets a shot one day as a Senior..Personally I'd but quite a few Senior Receiver candidates in before him. Otis Taylor, Billy Wilson, Lavie Dillweg, Mac Speedie, Cliff Branch, Drew Pearson, Del Shofner...Then Howton...Thats just my order though, and I'm not a voter. If he comes up and they put him in after these guys, I would have no complaint.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.