<< <i> What do you base this on, two Super Bowl MVPs, one of which (the first) he shouldn't have even won? Otherwise, Ben's stats are better... >>
Where are Ben's stats head and shoulders better? The difference in their resumes as a whole if you comapred them to all current active QB's is negligible. In fact, what other QB in the league right now is a better comparison to Ben or Eli then each other? Look at the factual resumes. They may not be 50-50 equal, but its no more than 52-48 to Ben. The resoning someone would have to voting to add or to not add Ben, would seem to be the same reasoning to add or not add Eli. I can see the valid points on both sides of the issue. I just don;t see a big enough difference that one is a 75%+ lock HOFer and the other is not.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>As I noted earlier, I think SB's are overvalued when looking at a player individually. Give me a Warren Moon or a Dan Marino, over a Jeff Hostetler or a Doug Williams. >>
I won't quantify your complaint about my complaints...lol
That being said, are we not trying to formulate a set filled with players who are MOST LIKELY going into the HOF? And knowing how the actual HOF Voters value Super Bowls, doesn't it make sense that we try and pick these guys based on how the voters treat certain players and positions and SB's, etc?
This is the set description on the Registry for this set:
"The players on this list are all widely considered to be likely or definite future Hall of Fame inductees."
Instead of basing your decisions on a hunch, or on how you personally feel about a player. Wouldn't it work better if you used all the available facts in order to make the correct assumption? Look at the voting trends. Look at the precedent set by the players already inducted (or passed over for induction) into the HOF. Make comparisons. Be logical.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Any of the previous voters want to throw in on Terrell Suggs? He wasn't mentioned earlier and might have been overlooked by some of you. Multiple Pro Bowls, ROY, All-Pro and now Defensive Player of the Year.
I would rather see us remove Big Ben, then add Eli also, so I vote to remove the Benster. >>
What do you base this on, two Super Bowl MVPs, one of which (the first) he shouldn't have even won? Otherwise, Ben's stats are better... >>
I suppose part because I don't think Eli belongs (who also shouldn't have been the SB MVP this last weekend, Pierre Paul should have gotten it), part because we don't need Jason to complain 50 times we didn't add Eli and have Ben, and part because we can vote to add Ben again in a year or two. I do imagine Ben will continue to do well, and if removed he will return. The AFC doesn't seem to shift in power as much as the NFC.
As I noted earlier, I think SB's are overvalued when looking at a player individually. Give me a Warren Moon or a Dan Marino, over a Jeff Hostetler or a Doug Williams. >>
You're speaking like Ben (and the Steelers) went in the tank this year. They were 12-4 and he was a big part of it. Did you originally vote for his inclusion in the set last year?
You all spend too much time looking at stats and awards. Professional sports is filled with guys who pile up stats then spit the bit come crunch time (think ARod). I'm not saying stats aren't important, but the questions that need to be asked are does a player make his team better? Does he put his team in a osition to win week in and week out? How does he play on the big stage? Does he dominate his opponents? Does he dominant his position? Look up Johnny Unitas' QB rating under the current system. I think he ranks in 77th place or some such number? Is he not a HOFer?
I'm a Chiefs fan....we went into the tank this year. Or more like, we fell off the rim of the tank we almost climbed out of.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>You all spend too much time looking at stats and awards. Professional sports is filled with guys who pile up stats then spit the bit come crunch time (think ARod). I'm not saying stats aren't important, but the questions that need to be asked are does a player make his team better? Does he put his team in a osition to win week in and week out? How does he play on the big stage? Does he dominate his opponents? Does he dominant his position? Look up Johnny Unitas' QB rating under the current system. I think he ranks in 77th place or some such number? Is he not a HOFer? >>
Very true. And these are all questions that get asked in the HOF meetings were they make the vote. These are just as, if not more important than the stats.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ware: 11 Allen: 9 Manning: 4 Wayne: 2 Justin Smith: 1 London Fletcher: 1 Andre Johnson: 1 Steve Smith: 2 Suggs: 2 Shane Lechler: 1
Removing Big Ben: 4
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Amen, brother! >>
Same with Jimmy Smith and LeRoy Butler...
At-water did at least make the top 25 this year. I've tried and failed in the past to have reitred player removed if/when they go 5+ consecutive years without making the top 25. It doesn't bode will for their candidacy.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Amen, brother! >>
Same with Jimmy Smith and LeRoy Butler...
At-water did at least make the top 25 this year. I've tried and failed in the past to have reitred player removed if/when they go 5+ consecutive years without making the top 25. It doesn't bode will for their candidacy.
Jason >>
yeah I just went off the top of my head, but those guys are not getting in anytime soon either. Funniest thing is that we cannot even spell At water on this board with out tricking it up.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Doesn't look like either three have a chance to me either. Maybe Gary Anderson can get in with a senior vote, and we should look at moving his name to that list, he was the all-time NFL scorer...a few times, while just removing the other two.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Doesn't look like either three have a chance to me either. Maybe Gary Anderson can get in with a senior vote, and we should look at moving his name to that list, he was the all-time NFL scorer...a few times, while just removing the other two. >>
All 3 are modern candidates for at least the next 15-20 years. You can remove them from the modern list, but they can't be added to the senior set until they are no longer eligible as modern candidates. 25 years after retirement. Please read the rules of the sets.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I don't think I would underestimate the value of a good kicker....Just ask Jerry Jones. Honestly though, I am not sure that is a viable argument. You are comparing 3 different positions. Apples and oranges. Sorry....just my opinion.
That's correct. I put in the request for the 6 cards to be added (and deleted from their Future HOF sets). Gayle said the sets will be updated later this week.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
that makes too much sense. It will never happen. >>
No probably not.
I do think today will be the final straw for putting coach/owner/contributors in their own category separate from players. This has been talked about in the past by the committee. Last I heard, the proposition was to go back to 1 Senior and use that 2nd senior slot for the coach/contributor. I've also heard they might rotate it. Example, even years would be 2 senior selections, 0 coach/owner, odd years would be 1 senior, 1 coach/owner/referee/NFL Films guy/etc.
The modern selection process likely won't change. They love the controversy and attention it brings to the HOF.
Let's hope they do something..Parcells isn't a HOF coach? Tagliabue isn't worthy? They are. Just not in comparison to some of the all-time great players that are on the ballot every year. Ed Sabol and Ralph Wilson get in...Parcells doesn't? It doesn't make sense. Let's hope the outrage over Parcells, as well as from the Senior Committee with Stanfel missing again is enough to push the changes into action. The proof is in the result of this years vote. >>
Anyone else been following the firestorm....Change is coming gents...And keep in mind, there is a group of actual voters who are also interested in making big changes to the current system....Some are threatened by the possibility of losing their "clout", but many are looking forward to fixing what gets more broken every year.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Ware: 11 Allen: 9 Manning: 4 Wayne: 2 Justin Smith: 1 London Fletcher: 1 Andre Johnson: 1 Steve Smith: 2 Suggs: 2 Shane Lechler: 1
Removing Big Ben: 4
Any other votes?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
The Poll for the Future HOF'er set has been sent out.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
LOL....I collected the 2005 Signature Series auto set....actually an auto variation set....many girls signed in several different colored ink. I probabaly have 3 complete sets, wrapped up in that variation set. Those kiss cards, and the bikini swatch cards can get quite pricey, so I never bought any of those. Here are my Kendras from that set.
Herschel Walker. 8200 yards for the NFL and 5700 or so for the USFL. That would put him top in the top five all time. My question is the Pro Football HOF is just that. The PRO FOOTBALL HOF, are the USFL stats even considered when they vote?
Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It's the pro football Hall of Fame. The USFL was a professional football league.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
He had the natural tools to certainly exceed in the nfl. I can't say just what or why but he fell short of them. >>
I think the issue was more with the offenses he played in rather than his ability. It seems like the Cowboys were the only team that used Walker to his fullest potential. The Vikings kept him under 200 carries each year he was there and a back like Walker should be touching the ball more frequently than that. IMO teams tried to use Walker like he was Roger Craig rather than giving him a large number of carries and moving the chains through the running game. Had Walker gone to the NFL out of college and was on team that used him more as a runner I have no doubts he would have been a HOF'er.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Glad I could bring a bit of lift back to this thread. So, with all of the draft talk about Mr. Luck being the next great QB I am going to nominate him for the Modern HOF set later today ;-)
<< <i>Glad I could bring a bit of lift back to this thread. So, with all of the draft talk about Mr. Luck being the next great QB I am going to nominate him for the Modern HOF set later today ;-) >>
Sounds good, he's got my vote.lol
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>It's the pro football Hall of Fame. The USFL was a professional football league. >>
I don't disagree...But the voters have not given the USFL or CFL or any other recent "professional" league any consideration when it comes to electing players into the HOF. They consider anything not NFL to be a minor league. Rightly or wrongly, just the way it is. You don't have to take my word for it. Research the subject or ask an actual voter if Doug Flutie has any chance..Or if they included Warren Moon's CFL production in the argument..Or Reggie White, Steve Young, Jim Kelly's USFL performance as a means of electing them. Just doesn't happen.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
Jason >>
USFL stats or not, Herschel Walker is not a HOFer >>
College Hall of Fame? Yes Pro Hall of Fame? No
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Since I do BK rc of HOFers it just killed me to have to run out and buy a psa 8. Didn't have one as I never thought in a million years he was a hofer. Luckily it wasn't much. His only resume is 3x college player of the year.
Whats next....high school player of the year.
At 5'9 I think at least Flutie made the most of his abilities. He has my respect.
I had met ralphie when I was visiting U of Virginia. All I can remember that he was tall. Very tall. Nice guy
Put him in and leave out bernard King?
ok back to FB.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
This is a super tough card in high grade, so hopefully you can excuse the spam.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
This is a super tough card in high grade, so hopefully you can excuse the spam. >>
Was this a review bump or raw submission?
Nice!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Actually neither, Jason. I bought it as is. >>
Ahhh ok gotcha...I've been too out of the loop, thought it was freshly graded as I did not remember any 9's before..lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
With the untimely passing of Junior Seau does he move up on the list for HOF'ers or do they still wait the five years? Is he a first ballot guy? I think he is.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>With the untimely passing of Junior Seau does he move up on the list for HOF'ers or do they still wait the five years? Is he a first ballot guy? I think he is. >>
Must still wait the 5 years until eligible. At least, that is how they have handled it in the past. HOF would need to ammend their bylaws in order to do anything otherwise.
He is and always has been a sure lock first ballot HOFer. One of the greatest to every play the position.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I feel asleep for a while but now I'm awake again and find this thread still hanging out on the first page!
It got me thinking. What about a Facebook page for us Football nuts to post and ramble on. I searched and found naught so I quickly created on and lobbed a first post and topic. It you want, check it out, and join in on what the fun that could be...
If there is already somewhere else you guys hang out that I have overlooked, please let me know and I will abandon this... I'm guessing most of you are on Facebook already. Something that was not true in 2006 when this thread started
I need a nice square logo if anyone has such laying around.
Comments
<< <i>
What do you base this on, two Super Bowl MVPs, one of which (the first) he shouldn't have even won? Otherwise, Ben's stats are better... >>
Where are Ben's stats head and shoulders better? The difference in their resumes as a whole if you comapred them to all current active QB's is negligible. In fact, what other QB in the league right now is a better comparison to Ben or Eli then each other? Look at the factual resumes. They may not be 50-50 equal, but its no more than 52-48 to Ben. The resoning someone would have to voting to add or to not add Ben, would seem to be the same reasoning to add or not add Eli. I can see the valid points on both sides of the issue. I just don;t see a big enough difference that one is a 75%+ lock HOFer and the other is not.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>As I noted earlier, I think SB's are overvalued when looking at a player individually. Give me a Warren Moon or a Dan Marino, over a Jeff Hostetler or a Doug Williams. >>
I won't quantify your complaint about my complaints...lol
That being said, are we not trying to formulate a set filled with players who are MOST LIKELY going into the HOF? And knowing how the actual HOF Voters value Super Bowls, doesn't it make sense that we try and pick these guys based on how the voters treat certain players and positions and SB's, etc?
This is the set description on the Registry for this set:
"The players on this list are all widely considered to be likely or definite future Hall of Fame inductees."
Instead of basing your decisions on a hunch, or on how you personally feel about a player. Wouldn't it work better if you used all the available facts in order to make the correct assumption? Look at the voting trends. Look at the precedent set by the players already inducted (or passed over for induction) into the HOF. Make comparisons. Be logical.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Any of the previous voters want to throw in on Terrell Suggs? He wasn't mentioned earlier and might have been overlooked by some of you. Multiple Pro Bowls, ROY, All-Pro and now Defensive Player of the Year.
I would rather see us remove Big Ben, then add Eli also, so I vote to remove the Benster. >>
What do you base this on, two Super Bowl MVPs, one of which (the first) he shouldn't have even won? Otherwise, Ben's stats are better... >>
I suppose part because I don't think Eli belongs (who also shouldn't have been the SB MVP this last weekend, Pierre Paul should have gotten it), part because we don't need Jason to complain 50 times we didn't add Eli and have Ben, and part because we can vote to add Ben again in a year or two. I do imagine Ben will continue to do well, and if removed he will return. The AFC doesn't seem to shift in power as much as the NFC.
As I noted earlier, I think SB's are overvalued when looking at a player individually. Give me a Warren Moon or a Dan Marino, over a Jeff Hostetler or a Doug Williams. >>
You're speaking like Ben (and the Steelers) went in the tank this year. They were 12-4 and he was a big part of it. Did you originally vote for his inclusion in the set last year?
I'm not saying stats aren't important, but the questions that need to be asked are does a player make his team better? Does he put his team in a osition to win week in and week out? How does he play on the big stage? Does he dominate his opponents? Does he dominant his position? Look up Johnny Unitas' QB rating under the current system. I think he ranks in 77th place or some such number? Is he not a HOFer?
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>You all spend too much time looking at stats and awards. Professional sports is filled with guys who pile up stats then spit the bit come crunch time (think ARod).
I'm not saying stats aren't important, but the questions that need to be asked are does a player make his team better? Does he put his team in a osition to win week in and week out? How does he play on the big stage? Does he dominate his opponents? Does he dominant his position? Look up Johnny Unitas' QB rating under the current system. I think he ranks in 77th place or some such number? Is he not a HOFer? >>
Very true. And these are all questions that get asked in the HOF meetings were they make the vote. These are just as, if not more important than the stats.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ware: 11
Allen: 9
Manning: 4
Wayne: 2
Justin Smith: 1
London Fletcher: 1
Andre Johnson: 1
Steve Smith: 2
Suggs: 2
Shane Lechler: 1
Removing Big Ben: 4
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Amen, brother!
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Amen, brother! >>
Same with Jimmy Smith and LeRoy Butler...
At-water did at least make the top 25 this year. I've tried and failed in the past to have reitred player removed if/when they go 5+ consecutive years without making the top 25. It doesn't bode will for their candidacy.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Amen, brother! >>
Same with Jimmy Smith and LeRoy Butler...
At-water did at least make the top 25 this year. I've tried and failed in the past to have reitred player removed if/when they go 5+ consecutive years without making the top 25. It doesn't bode will for their candidacy.
Jason >>
yeah I just went off the top of my head, but those guys are not getting in anytime soon either. Funniest thing is that we cannot even spell At water on this board with out tricking it up.
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Doesn't look like either three have a chance to me either. Maybe Gary Anderson can get in with a senior vote, and we should look at moving his name to that list, he was the all-time NFL scorer...a few times, while just removing the other two.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that Big Ben and Eli both have a better chance of getting in the HOF than Jason Elam, Steve Atw@ter or Gary Anderson. Just sayin. >>
Doesn't look like either three have a chance to me either. Maybe Gary Anderson can get in with a senior vote, and we should look at moving his name to that list, he was the all-time NFL scorer...a few times, while just removing the other two. >>
All 3 are modern candidates for at least the next 15-20 years. You can remove them from the modern list, but they can't be added to the senior set until they are no longer eligible as modern candidates. 25 years after retirement. Please read the rules of the sets.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
that makes too much sense. It will never happen. >>
No probably not.
I do think today will be the final straw for putting coach/owner/contributors in their own category separate from players. This has been talked about in the past by the committee. Last I heard, the proposition was to go back to 1 Senior and use that 2nd senior slot for the coach/contributor. I've also heard they might rotate it. Example, even years would be 2 senior selections, 0 coach/owner, odd years would be 1 senior, 1 coach/owner/referee/NFL Films guy/etc.
The modern selection process likely won't change. They love the controversy and attention it brings to the HOF.
Let's hope they do something..Parcells isn't a HOF coach? Tagliabue isn't worthy? They are. Just not in comparison to some of the all-time great players that are on the ballot every year. Ed Sabol and Ralph Wilson get in...Parcells doesn't? It doesn't make sense. Let's hope the outrage over Parcells, as well as from the Senior Committee with Stanfel missing again is enough to push the changes into action. The proof is in the result of this years vote. >>
Anyone else been following the firestorm....Change is coming gents...And keep in mind, there is a group of actual voters who are also interested in making big changes to the current system....Some are threatened by the possibility of losing their "clout", but many are looking forward to fixing what gets more broken every year.
Most recent story, google you will find others.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ware: 11
Allen: 9
Manning: 4
Wayne: 2
Justin Smith: 1
London Fletcher: 1
Andre Johnson: 1
Steve Smith: 2
Suggs: 2
Shane Lechler: 1
Removing Big Ben: 4
Any other votes?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Link to card
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
The production numbers are probably quite low on these type of cards.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
He had the natural tools to certainly exceed in the nfl. I can't say just what or why but he fell short of them.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
Jason >>
USFL stats or not, Herschel Walker is not a HOFer
<< <i>Agreed
He had the natural tools to certainly exceed in the nfl. I can't say just what or why but he fell short of them. >>
I think the issue was more with the offenses he played in rather than his ability. It seems like the Cowboys were the only team that used Walker to his fullest potential. The Vikings kept him under 200 carries each year he was there and a back like Walker should be touching the ball more frequently than that. IMO teams tried to use Walker like he was Roger Craig rather than giving him a large number of carries and moving the chains through the running game. Had Walker gone to the NFL out of college and was on team that used him more as a runner I have no doubts he would have been a HOF'er.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>Glad I could bring a bit of lift back to this thread. So, with all of the draft talk about Mr. Luck being the next great QB I am going to nominate him for the Modern HOF set later today ;-) >>
Sounds good, he's got my vote.lol
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>It's the pro football Hall of Fame. The USFL was a professional football league. >>
I don't disagree...But the voters have not given the USFL or CFL or any other recent "professional" league any consideration when it comes to electing players into the HOF. They consider anything not NFL to be a minor league. Rightly or wrongly, just the way it is. You don't have to take my word for it. Research the subject or ask an actual voter if Doug Flutie has any chance..Or if they included Warren Moon's CFL production in the argument..Or Reggie White, Steve Young, Jim Kelly's USFL performance as a means of electing them. Just doesn't happen.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes they do consider the USFL stats, but I think Walker will fall short of the HOF. >>
To my knowledge, no USFL success has ever been a talking point or consideration when voting for a HOF eligible player. In what case were USFL stats ever used to argue a players inclusion?
Jason >>
USFL stats or not, Herschel Walker is not a HOFer >>
College Hall of Fame? Yes
Pro Hall of Fame? No
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Flutie is rated best ever cfl player
note his bro Darren rated #50 and considered book ends for the cfl top 50.
Flutie was a 5x cfl mvp and gray cup winner multiple times.
If this were basketball.....flutie is slam dunk 1st ballot
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Flutie was a 5x cfl mvp and gray cup winner multiple times. >>
I don't think Flutie will ever get considered, so I doubt Walker's USFL stats will help.
<< <i>If this were basketball.....flutie is slam dunk 1st ballot >>
LOL, Ralph Sampson?
I'm with ya on ralphie
Since I do BK rc of HOFers it just killed me to have to run out and buy a psa 8.
Didn't have one as I never thought in a million years he was a hofer.
Luckily it wasn't much. His only resume is 3x college player of the year.
Whats next....high school player of the year.
At 5'9 I think at least Flutie made the most of his abilities. He has my respect.
I had met ralphie when I was visiting U of Virginia. All I can remember that he was tall. Very tall.
Nice guy
Put him in and leave out bernard King?
ok back to FB.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Billy Shaw PSA 9 RC
This is a super tough card in high grade, so hopefully you can excuse the spam.
<< <i>Here's a little something to liven this thread up. I'm selling a pop one PSA 9 '62 Fleer Billy Shaw rookie on eBay:
Billy Shaw PSA 9 RC
This is a super tough card in high grade, so hopefully you can excuse the spam. >>
Was this a review bump or raw submission?
Nice!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Actually neither, Jason. I bought it as is. >>
Ahhh ok gotcha...I've been too out of the loop, thought it was freshly graded as I did not remember any 9's before..lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>With the untimely passing of Junior Seau does he move up on the list for HOF'ers or do they still wait the five years? Is he a first ballot guy? I think he is. >>
Must still wait the 5 years until eligible. At least, that is how they have handled it in the past. HOF would need to ammend their bylaws in order to do anything otherwise.
He is and always has been a sure lock first ballot HOFer. One of the greatest to every play the position.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If he died in a plane crash on a humanitarian mission, a la Roberto Clemente, they might. But not for this.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
It got me thinking. What about a Facebook page for us Football nuts to post and ramble on. I searched and found naught so I quickly created on and lobbed a first post and topic. It you want, check it out, and join in on what the fun that could be...
http://www.facebook.com/PsaFootballCards
If there is already somewhere else you guys hang out that I have overlooked, please let me know and I will abandon this... I'm guessing most of you are on Facebook already. Something that was not true in 2006 when this thread started
I need a nice square logo if anyone has such laying around.
Brian