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Official Football HOF Rookies Thread**********************************************

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  • Reese3333Reese3333 Posts: 2,407 ✭✭
    I need the following for upcoming signings. If anyone can help please let me know. I'm looking for cards (graded or raw) with great eye appeal in the 4-6 range.

    Bart Starr 1957 Topps
    Len Dawson 1963 Fleer
    Nick Buoniconti 1963 Fleer
    Lance Alworth 1963 Fleer
    Willie Brown 1965 Topps
    Marshall Faulk 1994 SP (Need a PSA 9)

    Thanks,
    Reese
    Collecting the following autographed sets:
    HOF RC Auto Set
    1955 Topps Football AA
    1950 Bowman Football
    1951 Bowman Football
    1952 Bowman Football

    ebay user- Jolt333
    Please be sure to check out my auctions!
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I'm looking for a perfectly centered PSA 7 Starr to replace my perfectly centered PSA 5...



    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • Reese3333Reese3333 Posts: 2,407 ✭✭
    pm sent
    Collecting the following autographed sets:
    HOF RC Auto Set
    1955 Topps Football AA
    1950 Bowman Football
    1951 Bowman Football
    1952 Bowman Football

    ebay user- Jolt333
    Please be sure to check out my auctions!
  • dfr52dfr52 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice work on the upgrades. >>



    I'll second that. Keep the upgrades and new set additions coming!
    image

    Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
    Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
    touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
    defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
    title.
  • dfr52dfr52 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm looking for a perfectly centered PSA 7 Starr to replace my perfectly centered PSA 5...



    image >>



    Wow, why is that only a 5?
    image

    Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
    Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
    touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
    defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
    title.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    No idea.... I've subbed it twice coming back a 5 every time. No visible creases, just slightly touched corners. I think its at least worthy of a 6, if not higher. My Hornung is similar


    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • CSUrunandstunCSUrunandstun Posts: 573 ✭✭✭
    Got about 40 or so Rookie HOFers on the "bay", just listed!.....thanks to all who take a look!

    Pete
    Successful transactions with FavreFan1971, ffishonn, Davemri, Publius, DavidPuddy, frcarvell, recbball, and many others...
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No idea.... I've subbed it twice coming back a 5 every time. No visible creases, just slightly touched corners. I think its at least worthy of a 6, if not higher. My Hornung is similar


    image >>



    whenever you upgrade, keep me in mind for those when you sell. Both look awesome!
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • dfr52dfr52 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No idea.... I've subbed it twice coming back a 5 every time. No visible creases, just slightly touched corners. I think its at least worthy of a 6, if not higher. My Hornung is similar


    image >>



    Those are blazing 5's. I'd love to know why PSA keeps grading them so low. They really look more like 6's or even 6.5's.
    image

    Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
    Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
    touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
    defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
    title.
  • Doc1962Doc1962 Posts: 203 ✭✭
    Just heard the news that Bubba Smith passed away today. I always thought that was a great name for a football player.

    RIP Bubba
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭✭
    Loved Bubba in the police academy movies.

    Now that Randy Moss is retired (just say he stays that way)
    What % do you guys think he is a HOFER? Maybe the best ever at going after the ball. problem child?

    I would say 55% in
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Loved Bubba in the police academy movies.

    Now that Randy Moss is retired (just say he stays that way)
    What % do you guys think he is a HOFER? Maybe the best ever at going after the ball. problem child?

    I would say 55% in >>



    100% HOFer, just being on the list of the 100 Greatest Players of All Time makes him a lock. A lot of HOF voters were on that panel. He may not go in first ballot, but I would actually be a little surprized if he did not.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • SouthsiderSouthsider Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭
    Moss is a lock HOFer. Heck, he's on the short list for the second best receiver of all time (assuming that you agree Rice is #1).
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Moss is a lock HOFer. Heck, he's on the short list for the second best receiver of all time (assuming that you agree Rice is #1). >>



    Moss can't crack the top three.

    #1 is Don Hutson (and not because I am a Packer fan)
    #2 is Jerry Rice
    #3 Lots of people

    If we want to debate Hutson / Ric on this thread we can but I don't want to take up the thread for that if some don't want to see the comparisons.
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Moss is a lock HOFer. Heck, he's on the short list for the second best receiver of all time (assuming that you agree Rice is #1). >>



    Moss can't crack the top three.

    #1 is Don Hutson (and not because I am a Packer fan)
    #2 is Jerry Rice
    #3 Lots of people

    If we want to debate Hutson / Ric on this thread we can but I don't want to take up the thread for that if some don't want to see the comparisons. >>



    Hutson was the most prolific in his era bar none, but 99% of the players he played against would have trouble making most division I football programs nowadays. Hard to say he is the best ever, when Rice was voted the #1 all time player by a panel of experts.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Moss is a lock HOFer. Heck, he's on the short list for the second best receiver of all time (assuming that you agree Rice is #1). >>



    Moss can't crack the top three.

    #1 is Don Hutson (and not because I am a Packer fan)
    #2 is Jerry Rice
    #3 Lots of people

    If we want to debate Hutson / Ric on this thread we can but I don't want to take up the thread for that if some don't want to see the comparisons. >>



    Hutson was the most prolific in his era bar none, but 99% of the players he played against would have trouble making most division I football programs nowadays. Hard to say he is the best ever, when Rice was voted the #1 all time player by a panel of experts. >>



    and what about some of the pitchers that Ruth faced. to be honest i hate it when these type of comments are made. its like its some big generational issue. its never easy to compare players from different eras. however, no one can have much of a argument that both were the most unstopable WR's of their times.

    one is credited for bringing nearly all the pass routes that are used in football to the game. one broke and holds all the WR records while playing 2.6 times as many games as the other, yet only doubled the amount of TD's, ~3 times the total yards and total catches. one played both ways the other didnt. one scored a TD on 20% of his catches the other only 12%. one was playing at the start of the passing game in the nfl. the other was playing when the passing game started to take over from the running game. both used their time in the nfl to take advantage of defensive players/schemes that werent at their level of talent.

    so to me its really hard to say that one was turely that much better than the other. i would settle for 1a and 1b. the fight then is on for the second best WR of all time.
    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
  • SouthsiderSouthsider Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭
    I did say a short list, not definitively number 2. I imagine a lot goes into how you compare the WRs of different eras, whether you look at stats, dominance, game changing ability, skills, etc. But ultimately, I don't think you're going to find many people that would say that Moss isn't a HOFer WR.
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Moss is a lock HOFer. Heck, he's on the short list for the second best receiver of all time (assuming that you agree Rice is #1). >>



    Moss can't crack the top three.

    #1 is Don Hutson (and not because I am a Packer fan)
    #2 is Jerry Rice
    #3 Lots of people

    If we want to debate Hutson / Ric on this thread we can but I don't want to take up the thread for that if some don't want to see the comparisons. >>



    Hutson was the most prolific in his era bar none, but 99% of the players he played against would have trouble making most division I football programs nowadays. Hard to say he is the best ever, when Rice was voted the #1 all time player by a panel of experts. >>



    and what about some of the pitchers that Ruth faced. to be honest i hate it when these type of comments are made. its like its some big generational issue. its never easy to compare players from different eras. however, no one can have much of a argument that both were the most unstopable WR's of their times.

    one is credited for bringing nearly all the pass routes that are used in football to the game. one broke and holds all the WR records while playing 2.6 times as many games as the other, yet only doubled the amount of TD's, ~3 times the total yards and total catches. one played both ways the other didnt. one scored a TD on 20% of his catches the other only 12%. one was playing at the start of the passing game in the nfl. the other was playing when the passing game started to take over from the running game. both used their time in the nfl to take advantage of defensive players/schemes that werent at their level of talent.

    so to me its really hard to say that one was turely that much better than the other. i would settle for 1a and 1b. the fight then is on for the second best WR of all time. >>



    I would agree that they are no doubt the top 2.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    The reason I say Hutson is #1 is that when he led the league in a category he was up and above 2nd place by a long shot the majority of the time. When Rice lead the league he did not have such a commanding lead on 2nd place.

    I have some stats compiled somewhere on this where I took Rice's best 10 seasons (he played 20) and Hutson's best 10 seasons (he only played 11) and Hutson blew Rice out of the water in comparison to how far each of them were to the the guy in 2nd place.

    He was a man against boys.


  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭✭
    few years back the Hudson/Rice thread was going heavy. I believe the majority of the very knowledgable board members here considered Hudson the best. Yes in a modern era passing game
    Rice has all the records.
    I was watching programs on the nfl network I think and they devoted an hour to Montana and also to Young.. Gees were they accurate passers !!!!! Just curious.....who threw to Hudson?

    Never a good idea to compare against generations that far apart.
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    Hutson had Irv Comp, Arnie Herber and Cecil Isbell throw to him as a QB. The Pack did a lot of halfback option back then too so a decent portion came from Bobby Monnett and even Tony Canadeo late in Hutson's career.

    Herber is in the HOF but Isbell led the league in passing yards during Hutson's two great years.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Well, I just got in to from the national last night and made 3 upgrades to my HOF RC set. The Starr I posted above looked so nice I thought I would try to crack it and let it fly. The results my suprise you. It's finally in it's correct holder.

    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I also picked up this from Kurt Koletrane (Kurtz Cards)

    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I bought this card raw off ebay a couple years ago for around $10. I threw it in to get graded and was pleasanty suprised. I expected a 7. This upgrades my current 7.

    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • dave- Congarts on the B. Starr upgrade. Justice has been servedimage
    The B. Brown is another great deal. Hope you enjoyed your time at the National.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    And last....... I picked up a "pre-rookie" that I've been hunting down for 5+ years. This is the only one I have ever seen available. Even has some nice weiner stains...


    image




    Thanks Frank, Yes my son and I had a great time.


    Dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • cardbendercardbender Posts: 1,831 ✭✭
    Dave,
    Congrats on your Starr bump and other finds. Your Bob Brown RC looks really sharp.
    Great find on the Willie Davis Kahn's rookie. I've only seen one other example ever and
    that one was in a complete set sold at auction.
  • PubliusPublius Posts: 1,306 ✭✭
    You didnt show me your Bart Starr or Kahns Willie Davis card Dave! You holdin' out on me man! image

    Great pickups buddy, you Keisling matchbook looked awesome in the "competitions" holder too.


    Edited to add, Don Hutson is simply the best of all time, he paved the way for guys like Largent and Rice. When someones records stand for decades before another person comes along to break them, thats a testament to how high the bar was set. Granted, it will be awhile before someone breaks Rices records for TD's and Yards for sure, showing just how good he was too.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Sorry Joe... The Kahns was a last minute pick up.

    BTW....The VCP on the Canadeo 7.5 is $303.........VCP for an 8 is $586......... Your memory seems to be failing you... image


    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the Rice vs. Hutson argument is simple. Rice was better, but Hutson was more dominant.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    Didn't make it to the National but got these from Gumby's group sub. All are available in trade for upgrades to my set.

    image
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    Oh yeah, I forgot about my coolest purchase in awhile. The flip speaks for itself. Never selling this one.

    image
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the Starr is awesome. Glad to see it is finally in a fitting holder.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • recbballrecbball Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭
    Ken Crippen of the PFRA has an article out on the Senior selections:
    Looking At The 2012 HOF Seniors Candidates

    Text
  • dfr52dfr52 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Ken Crippen of the PFRA has an article out on the Senior selections:
    Looking At The 2012 HOF Seniors Candidates

    Text >>



    Thanks for posting that, a lot of great candidates.
    image

    Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
    Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
    touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
    defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
    title.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    RIP Mr. Pihos....

    Is it just me or have we lost a high number of HOF'ers this year?


    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    All,

    I'm starting to auction off my remaining HOF cards with Probstein. Below is a link to one of the auctions.

    1983 Gary Anderson PSA 10

    He is also auctioning off the following cards for me:

    1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell PSA 7
    1952 Bowman Large Andy Robustelli PSA 6
    1955 Bowman Len Ford PSA 8
    1955 Bowman Frank Gatski PSA 8
    1961 Fleer Jim Otto PSA 8
    1964 Philadelphia Merlin Olsen PSA 8.5
    1970 Topps Lem Barney PSA 9
    1971 Topps Terry Bradshaw PSA 8
    2000 SP Authentic Brian Urlacher PSA 10
    1948 Leaf Charley Trippi PSA 6
    1948 Bowman Alex Wojciechowicz PSA 7
    1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause PSA 8
    1967 Philadelphia LeRoy Kelly PSA 7
    1968 Topps Floyd Little PSA 8
    1994 SP Marshall Faulk PSA 10
    1961 Fleer Johnny Unitas PSA 8
    1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson PSA 8
    1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau PSA 8
    1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith PSA 8
    1971 Topps Roger Wehrli PSA 8
    1971 Topps Charlie Sanders PSA 8

    Thanks for everything that you guys have bought from me already and good luck if you decide to bid on any of my cards. Take care,

    Greg M.

    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All,

    I'm starting to auction off my remaining HOF cards with Probstein. Below is a link to one of the auctions.

    1983 Gary Anderson PSA 10

    He is also auctioning off the following cards for me:

    1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell PSA 7
    1952 Bowman Large Andy Robustelli PSA 6
    1955 Bowman Len Ford PSA 8
    1955 Bowman Frank Gatski PSA 8
    1961 Fleer Jim Otto PSA 8
    1964 Philadelphia Merlin Olsen PSA 8.5
    1970 Topps Lem Barney PSA 9
    1971 Topps Terry Bradshaw PSA 8
    2000 SP Authentic Brian Urlacher PSA 10
    1948 Leaf Charley Trippi PSA 6
    1948 Bowman Alex Wojciechowicz PSA 7
    1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause PSA 8
    1967 Philadelphia LeRoy Kelly PSA 7
    1968 Topps Floyd Little PSA 8
    1994 SP Marshall Faulk PSA 10
    1961 Fleer Johnny Unitas PSA 8
    1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson PSA 8
    1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau PSA 8
    1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith PSA 8
    1971 Topps Roger Wehrli PSA 8
    1971 Topps Charlie Sanders PSA 8

    Thanks for everything that you guys have bought from me already and good luck if you decide to bid on any of my cards. Take care,

    Greg M. >>



    I thought those were yours. Good luck with your auctions!
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭
    Any word on the senior selections?
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    Looking to trade the Phios 5.5 pictured above for some mid grade HOF's that I need for my set. I am looking to do a VCP for VCP for them if we can. I am nearly at my 3.0 rating and just about to crack the top 30 of current sets / 37th all time. I really enjoy finding the affordable gems for me, which are cast offs for many others. Hoping the Phios will give me the $$$ I am looking for my Unitas or a trade for a bunch of mid grade 40's , 50's or 60's.

    Let me know if you are interested.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Any word on the senior selections? >>



    Senior semifinalists:
    Ken Anderson
    Maxie Baughan
    Cliff Branch
    Roger Brown
    Jack Butler
    Curly Culp
    Mike Curtis
    Ray Guy
    Cliff Harris
    Lester Hayes
    Chuck Howley
    Claude Humphrey
    Alex Karras
    Jerry Kramer
    Bob Keuchenberg
    Eddie Meador
    Tommy Nobis
    Dave Robinson
    Johnny Robinson
    Dick Stanfel
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Jason. Scott (and Whitey Wistert) is not going to like this list.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • Doc1962Doc1962 Posts: 203 ✭✭
    Jason, thanks for the list. So who are the Senior picks to be inducted in your opinion?

    Doc
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jason, thanks for the list. So who are the Senior picks to be inducted in your opinion?

    Doc >>



    I'm hearing it will be a newer candidate along with an older one. But really haven't heard any definite names being pushed. I also think at least one, if not both, will be an offensive player.

    I think a few can be eliminated, as there are some guys I do not think will be picked. 2 of these 12 including at least 1 of these 5 offensive guys:

    Ken Anderson
    Cliff Branch
    Jerry Kramer
    Bob Kuchenberg
    Dick Stanfel

    Roger Brown
    Jack Butler
    Curly Culp
    Cliff Harris
    Lester Hayes
    Alex Karras
    Johnny Robinson

    If I were choosing, it would be Kramer and Kuchenberg of this group. Maybe Jack Butler if they want a defensive guy.
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭
    Kramer is long over due for his induction. His speech will be amazing to listen to. Let's get it right this year!
  • Doc1962Doc1962 Posts: 203 ✭✭
    As a Packer fan I'd love to see Kramer. Maybe with them winning the last SB he will get a push??

    Doc
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Dick Stanfel and Jack Butler

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dick Stanfel and Jack Butler >>



    Good choices. Looks like they couldn't decide on the newer lineman so they went with a 50s guy. Telling that they went with Stanfel over Kramer. Kramer may never get the nod.
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Anyone have mailing addresses for Butler and Stanfel?
  • Couldn't find Butler. NFL Players Association 2011 Retired Members Directory list Stanfel as:

    Stanfel, Richard (DET, WAS, 1958), 1104 Juniper Parkway, Libertyville, IL 60048

    If anyone wants a copy I can email a PDF file of the directory.

    David
    It is always easier to fight for one’s principles than to live up to them-Adlai Stevenson
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