I'm on record as thinking Branch should be in. He's part of a very overlooked group of receivers from the 70's who should have gotten more serious consideration over the years. Personally, I would include Harold Jackson and John Gilliam on that list, as well as Drew Pearson.
<< <i>Personally, I would include Harold Jackson and John Gilliam on that list, as well as Drew Pearson. >>
Harold Jackson, no doubt. Very underrated and unperappreciated.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Wow, that 8 is stunning. 1500/2500 is the estimate on it? It's one of the nicest 48 Leafs I've ever seen, not to mention the nicest Baugh. Jason, my initial thinking was that it would be in the $4500 range, do you think it will top that substantially?
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen.
<< <i>Wow, that 8 is stunning. 1500/2500 is the estimate on it? It's one of the nicest 48 Leafs I've ever seen, not to mention the nicest Baugh. Jason, my initial thinking was that it would be in the $4500 range, do you think it will top that substantially?
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen. >>
Josh, for $4500, I'll be selling my PSA 7...lol
The last PSA 7 on ebay sold for over 2K...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just added John Gilliam (34), Harold Jackson (35) and Harold Carmichael (37) to the list...All very good players, but to me not HOF level.
So is there anyone on this list who is truly HOF caliber yet getting totally overlooked? I think of those 4 guys Branch, Pearson, Howton and Wilson all 4 at least deserve some consideration. Branch and Pearson are still modern candidates and never even get mentioned....
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Gary Clark has been added. Clark scores a 45...Just 3 points less than Monk , and he played 57 fewer games, 1 less Super Bowl and was never the All-Time receptions leader...
Add him the list of TRULY overlooked/underappreciated WRs...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Wow, that 8 is stunning. 1500/2500 is the estimate on it? It's one of the nicest 48 Leafs I've ever seen, not to mention the nicest Baugh. Jason, my initial thinking was that it would be in the $4500 range, do you think it will top that substantially?
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen. >>
Josh, for $4500, I'll be selling my PSA 7...lol
The last PSA 7 on ebay sold for over 2K...
Jason >>
I thought the last 7 was in the $1500-2k range. So do you think this 8 will creep closer to the $7 or 8k mark then? It's a helluva card. Your 7 is very nice, for some reason the scan didn't show up last night when I looked so I just saw it.
BTW, I have a business idea for you. Sell that list of historical sales for HOF football to us.
I thought the last 7 was in the $1500-2k range. So do you think this 8 will creep closer to the $7 or 8k mark then? It's a helluva card. Your 7 is very nice, for some reason the scan didn't show up last night when I looked so I just saw it.
BTW, I have a business idea for you. Sell that list of historical sales for HOF football to us. >>
The Baugh 7 that sold last month went for $2247...
I've had offers in the past for the tracking spreadsheets, but honestly I've told too many people "no" to change my mind now..I would have a bunch of angry collectors if i did that...lol..At some point, they will become obsolete with VCP now starting to get a nice database of football going that everyone has access to. They have all auctions back to Nov. 2006...Once they've got tracked prices on EVERYTHING I may just post the spreadsheets on the web or something just for historical value..I wouldn't charge for them...lol
Plus they aren't perfect by any means...I started doing it in June 2003, but I've had some gaps in the past 4 years that I was deployed and couldn't track every single item...But I do have numbers on every HOF RC in just about every grade...And for me, who has had to put the set together on a budget, it has been a valuable resource for knowing what is a good deal and what isn't. VCP will be that resource as their database continues to grow.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Surprised to see him rated above my boy Jimmy Smith..Obviously Freeman has the Super Bowl performances Jimmy Smith never got...
Freeman is eligible in 2009, I can't see him ever being more than a nominee though...
Also ran Sterling Sharpe's numbers....Rating of 50 in just 7 seasons..That's impressive...Had he played 2-3 more years he would have been a certain HOFer...Higher than Art Monk who played for 16 seasons and gets bonus points for being the All-Time receptions leader and 3 (although 2 were weak) Super Bowl performances...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks for the Sharpe info too. I doubt that both will even get a sniff at the HOF. Of the two Sharpe was the better and more deserving. He along with Moore set the standard for 100+ catches in a season as a top number for receivers. Your right another 2 years he would probably be in. That would have given him 2 SB appearance and 1 win. Assuming that things still would have gone that way for the Pack. They probably would have as they were the best young team on the rise at that time.
Jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Nice pickup on the Tingelhoff. I've been trying to find one myself and I think he is a guaranteed HOFer in the next 5 to 10 years. He's a great signer through the mail and I have sent at least 3 batches of cards for him to sign - which he has willingly done. What a great guy.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
The senior candidates are announced in mid to late August. It will be interesting to see who they pick this year. We should have a contest to see who can guess the candidates...with a prize to the winner. Who would be interested?
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'll go with Lemar Parrish and Harold Jackson. The second, I know, is just wishful thinking.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
As a reminder (and so you don't have to page back 25 pages..lol) here are last year's 17 senior finalists...These are chosen via mail balloting to the HOF voters, much the same as the modern finalists are chosen. From this list, the Senior committee (which is something like 10-12 of the HOF voters) selects it's 2 senior candidates. The list of 17 usually comes out in July, and then the 2 senior candidates are chosen/announced in late August. Supposedly, the Senior committee does alot of research on these guys before making their selections (1 month+ worth) which is why these selections usually hold alot of weight when the voting is done. Its about 90% lock that if a guy is chosen as a Senior Candidate he will get the votes. Although most recently, Bullet Bob Hayes was a Senior who didn't get the 80% vote. Anyway, here is last years list in which Hickerson and Sanders were chosen:
Charlie Conerly Pat Fischer L.C. Greenwood Cliff Harris Bob Hayes Gene Hickerson Chuck Howley Claude Humphrey Lee Roy Jordan Floyd Little Jim Marshall Tommy Nobis Dave Robinson Charlie Sanders Otis Taylor Mick Tingelhoff Billy Wilson
Interesting note is that Charlie Sanders wasn't even a Senior finalist for 2006...So it's possible that a candidate NOT on this list from last year could end up being a HOFer next year.
First time Senior Candidates for 2008, who were modern candidates for the last time in 2007:
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm going to take a shot with Conerly and Humphrey. I figure one guy(Conerly) played mostly in the 1950's on offense in New York, the other (Humphrey) played defense in the south with Atlanta in mostly the 1970's. Is Conerly still kicking? He must be over 80 now. It's about time he got recognized for his fine play before he tips over.
Although I would find it hard to believe that Conerly would get in before the likes of Brodie, Gabriel, Hadl, Simms, Stabler, Anderson, Theismann, Esiason, etc......
I would really like to see Kramer and Tinglehoff get the nod, but I can't see them putting in two OL guys the same year.
Jason, by the way, nice work on the receivers chart you did. It's a great way to help put values on players from different era's. Keep up the good research work. You should publish a book on this type of info. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
<< <i>I'm going to take a shot with Conerly and Humphrey. I figure one guy(Conerly) played mostly in the 1950's on offense in New York, the other (Humphrey) played defense in the south with Atlanta in mostly the 1970's. Is Conerly still kicking? He must be over 80 now. It's about time he got recognized for his fine play before he tips over.
Although I would find it hard to believe that Conerly would get in before the likes of Brodie, Gabriel, Hadl, Simms, Stabler, Anderson, Theismann, Esiason, etc......
I would really like to see Kramer and Tinglehoff get the nod, but I can't see them putting in two OL guys the same year.
Jason, by the way, nice work on the receivers chart you did. It's a great way to help put values on players from different era's. Keep up the good research work. You should publish a book on this type of info. I would buy it in a heartbeat. >>
Conerly died about 8 or 10 years ago I believe. I recently picked up an autographed card of him as I believe he will eventually be inducted.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Just added John Gilliam (34), Harold Jackson (35) and Harold Carmichael (37) to the list...All very good players, but to me not HOF level.
So is there anyone on this list who is truly HOF caliber yet getting totally overlooked? I think of those 4 guys Branch, Pearson, Howton and Wilson all 4 at least deserve some consideration. Branch and Pearson are still modern candidates and never even get mentioned....
Jason >>
My top 5 deserving eligible WR's not in the Hall yet :
Mac Speedie Bob Hayes Billy Wilson Cliff Branch Art Monk
Pretty much every decade is covered with these five guys.
Next would be:
Sterling Sharpe** Drew Pearson Max McGee** Gary Clark Lavern Dilweg **(played in the 1920's and '30's).
**Sorry for the Packers bias**.
Obviously if Cris Carter, Andre Reed, and Tim Brown would be locks too when they're eligible.
Jason, just for the heck of it, where would Del Shofner (5 time All-Pro) and Gary Collins of the Browns rank on the rankings list? Both were outstanding players.
I was already doing one for the RB's, but didn't really like or agree with how it came out, especially for the Pre-WWII guys since alot of stats weren't kept back then and most of those guys had very short careers. Here's what I got:
1- Jim Brown- 122 2- Emmitt Smith- 106 3- Walter Payton- 99 4- Barry Sanders- 98 5- Marshall Faulk- 77 6- Lenny Moore- 76 7- Steve Van Buren- 73 8- Jim Taylor- 67 9-Terrell Davis- 63 9- Franco Harris- 63 9- Thurman Thomas- 63 12- Eric Dickerson- 62 13- Marcus Allen- 61 13- Frank Gifford- 61 13- Clark Hinkle- 61 16- Earl Campbell- 60 17- OJ Simpson- 55 18- Larry Csonka- 51 18- Ernie Nevers- 51 18- Joe Perry- 51 21- Bronko Nagurski- 49 22- Leroy Kelly- 48 23- Cliff Battles- 47 23- Paul Hornung- 47 25- Gale Sayers- 46 26- Shaun Alexander- 44 27- Curtis Martin- 43 28- Marion Motley- 42 29- Tony Dorsett- 38 29- Ottis Anderson- 38 31- John Henry Johnson- 36 31- John Riggins- 36 31- Ken Strong- 36 34- Jerome Bettis- 34 35- Doak Walker- 32 35- Ricky Watters- 32 37- Corey Dillon- 30 37- Edgerrin James- 30 39- Eddie George- 29 39- Ollie Matson- 29 39- Hugh McElhenney- 29 42- Red Grange- 28 43- Tiki Barber- 26 43- Tony Canadeo- 26 45- George McAfee- 24 46- Charlie Trippi- 21 47- William Andrews- 19 48- Billy Sims- 18
Let me know what you think...I think its a little off...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, just for the heck of it, where would Del Shofner (5 time All-Pro) and Gary Collins of the Browns rank on the rankings list? Both were outstanding players.
Rich >>
WOW, nice find on Shofner. He rates a 61! I've mentioned him before as an overlooked guy, but was not aware that he was that dominant.
Gary Collins rates a 30. I am going to add these 2 to the master list...
Updated list below:
***= Guys who have been HOF candidates, but not been elected.
1- Jerry Rice- 189 2- Don Hutson- 163 3- Lance Alworth- 90 4- Marvin Harrison- 80 5- Steve Largent- 70 6- Raymond Berry- 66 7- Paul Warfield- 64 7- Cris Carter- 64 9- Pete Pihos- 63 10- Fred Biletnikoff- 62 10- Dante Lavelli- 62 12- James Lofton- 61 12- Del Shofner- 61*** 14- Mac Speedie- 60*** 15- Bob Hayes- 59*** 15- Don Maynard- 59 17- Cliff Branch- 56*** 18- Bobby Mitchell- 55 18- Charley Taylor- 55 20- Torry Holt- 54 20- Tommy McDonald- 54 20- Terrell Owens- 54 23- Michael Irvin- 52 23- John Stallworth- 52 25-Sterling Sharpe- 50*** 26- Tim Brown- 49 26- Tom Fears- 49 26- Andre Reed- 49*** 29- Art Monk- 48*** 29- Lynn Swann- 48 31- Elroy Hirsch- 47 31- Billy Howton- 47*** 31- Drew Pearson- 47*** 33- Randy Moss- 46 34- Gark Clark- 45*** 34- Billy Wilson- 45*** 36- Harold Carmichael- 37*** 37- Isaac Bruce- 35 37- Harold Jackson- 35*** 37- Charlie Joiner- 35 40- John Gilliam- 34*** 41- Gary Collins- 30*** 42- Antonio Freeman- 29 43- Max McGee- 28*** 43- Jimmy Smith- 28 44- Henry Ellard- 26*** 45- Irving Fryar- 23*** 45- Wayne Millner- 23
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Never under-estimate the power of the HOF RC collectors...lol
I was figuring between $1500-$2000...
$2605 makes it the most valuable card in the set...As the Elway's sell for around 2k and the Marino around 1K...Maybe this will send some people searching their raw 1984 sets and maybe getting some more 10's graded...I think I have one that I pulled from a 1984 Box i got from BBCE...Trying to get to 100 cards before sending in...Still about 15 short...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Wow! WHat a nice card and alot of money. If I had enough disposalbe income, I would have bought it as well. I know this card is notorious for the tilt, but I think the whole card it tilted and just gives the impression of diamond cut. Looks like a worthy 10 to me..
Its VERY likely that other snipes were placed that didn't go off because of the big 2K plus snipes trumped them..No way that card sells for $375 even if #1 and #2 weren't bidding...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I think if neither of the top 2 would have bid, it still sells for at least $1,000...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, Getting back to your RB list, what stats are used for the totals? I'm just wondering because I'm very surprised Gifford ranks so much higher than other '50's same type backs, namely McElhenny and Matson. I guess if you put receiving stats into the mix and team success, that's where he picked up many extra points. Gifford ran for only 3600 yards in his career and was used as an end his last three years and rarely carried the ball. Just curious.
It's nice to see a back like Van Buren near the top. He was simply dominant for about 5 years of his 8 year NFL career. He put up some big numbers in 12 game seasons and had some tremendous playoff games too. At least the list recognizes some of the 1930's stars too like Hinkle, Battles, and Nagurski.
Somewhat surprising is the low rankings for some of the modern backs: Dillon, George, Bettis, and Watters. I guess padding your rushing totals in those 16 game seasons doesn't cut it on this list. Quality counts over quantity.
I thought Tiki would rank higher too due to his last 6 seasons being excellent, with lot's of rushing and receiving yards plus a high avg. yards per carry. Maybe not enough TD's.
Where would a short career star like William Andrews rank? It's really too bad he got hurt and had a brief career. His yards from scrimmage every year were pretty outstanding, as was his avg. per carry. Same with Billy Sims.
Rich, here are the areas used to calculate for the RBs:
-Top 5 and Top 10 finishes per season in Rush Yds, Rush TDs, Receptions, Rec. Yds and Rec TDs -1st Team All-Pro selections (AP) -Pro Bowl selections -MVP, Off Player of the Year Awards -All-Time career leader in a major category (rush yds and rush TDs for the RBs) -Super Bowl or Championship game performances in the Pre-Super Bowl era...
Some issues....For the old-timers like Gifford, there were fewer teams and less competition than current players for finishing in the top 5 or top 10. But they also played fewer seasons, so it somewhat evens out...For the 60's and for the 1946-1949 seasons, top 5 and top 10 finishes are concluded using ALL comparable leagues (AAFC and AFL)...So I'm not counting a Top 5 AFL or NFL finish alone as a top 5 finish. I used stats from BOTH leagues combined and the player would need to be in the top 5 from all AFL/NFL players for that season.
Obviously Gifford got alot of bonus points for Championship game performances, while guys like Matson and McElhenney did not..McElhenney also shared part of his career with Joe Perry in the same backfield..
I don't have my encyclopedias with all the info with me tonight, so I will post Andrews and Sims numbers tomorrow. Off the top of my head I would think they won't score real high because of the short careers and no Super Bowls. In this system, no player will ever "lose" points...They can only gain points each season using the above categories. I need to run Terrell Davis as well, and he might do well with his awards and Super Bowl performances..
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
OK, here's the breakdown for Andrews, Sims and T.D.
William Andrews (19) Billy Sims (18) Terrell Davis (63)
T.D.s ranking puts him above Eric Dickerson and Marcus Allen and tied with Franco Harris...And he did it in just 7 seasons...He should get into the HOF IMO...He was the #1 player in the game from 1996-1998. MVP, 2 time Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP, 3 times 1st team All-Pro...
Joe, I can't give away all my secrets..lolol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
BTW.. Very nice 7.
Here's my 5....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Personally, I would include Harold Jackson and John Gilliam on that list, as well as Drew Pearson. >>
Harold Jackson, no doubt. Very underrated and unperappreciated.
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>Wow, that 8 is stunning. 1500/2500 is the estimate on it? It's one of the nicest 48 Leafs I've ever seen, not to mention the nicest Baugh. Jason, my initial thinking was that it would be in the $4500 range, do you think it will top that substantially?
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen. >>
Josh, for $4500, I'll be selling my PSA 7...lol
The last PSA 7 on ebay sold for over 2K...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So is there anyone on this list who is truly HOF caliber yet getting totally overlooked? I think of those 4 guys Branch, Pearson, Howton and Wilson all 4 at least deserve some consideration. Branch and Pearson are still modern candidates and never even get mentioned....
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Where does Gary Clark fit into the above list?
Robert
Any high grade OPC Jim Palmer
High grade Redskins (pre 1980)
<< <i>Jason,
Where does Gary Clark fit into the above list?
Robert >>
Gary Clark has been added. Clark scores a 45...Just 3 points less than Monk , and he played 57 fewer games, 1 less Super Bowl and was never the All-Time receptions leader...
Add him the list of TRULY overlooked/underappreciated WRs...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, that 8 is stunning. 1500/2500 is the estimate on it? It's one of the nicest 48 Leafs I've ever seen, not to mention the nicest Baugh. Jason, my initial thinking was that it would be in the $4500 range, do you think it will top that substantially?
Dave-If you ever want to sell that Baugh 5, let me know. That's actually printed really well and presents better than a lot of the others I've seen. >>
Josh, for $4500, I'll be selling my PSA 7...lol
The last PSA 7 on ebay sold for over 2K...
Jason >>
I thought the last 7 was in the $1500-2k range. So do you think this 8 will creep closer to the $7 or 8k mark then? It's a helluva card. Your 7 is very nice, for some reason the scan didn't show up last night when I looked so I just saw it.
BTW, I have a business idea for you. Sell that list of historical sales for HOF football to us.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>
I thought the last 7 was in the $1500-2k range. So do you think this 8 will creep closer to the $7 or 8k mark then? It's a helluva card. Your 7 is very nice, for some reason the scan didn't show up last night when I looked so I just saw it.
BTW, I have a business idea for you. Sell that list of historical sales for HOF football to us.
The Baugh 7 that sold last month went for $2247...
I've had offers in the past for the tracking spreadsheets, but honestly I've told too many people "no" to change my mind now..I would have a bunch of angry collectors if i did that...lol..At some point, they will become obsolete with VCP now starting to get a nice database of football going that everyone has access to. They have all auctions back to Nov. 2006...Once they've got tracked prices on EVERYTHING I may just post the spreadsheets on the web or something just for historical value..I wouldn't charge for them...lol
Plus they aren't perfect by any means...I started doing it in June 2003, but I've had some gaps in the past 4 years that I was deployed and couldn't track every single item...But I do have numbers on every HOF RC in just about every grade...And for me, who has had to put the set together on a budget, it has been a valuable resource for knowing what is a good deal and what isn't. VCP will be that resource as their database continues to grow.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Just added [...] Harold Carmichael (37) to the list >>
A man I only thought of an hour or two after my initial post. I should have included him on my original list.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>where does antonio freeman stand? >>
Antonio Freeman- 29
Surprised to see him rated above my boy Jimmy Smith..Obviously Freeman has the Super Bowl performances Jimmy Smith never got...
Freeman is eligible in 2009, I can't see him ever being more than a nominee though...
Also ran Sterling Sharpe's numbers....Rating of 50 in just 7 seasons..That's impressive...Had he played 2-3 more years he would have been a certain HOFer...Higher than Art Monk who played for 16 seasons and gets bonus points for being the All-Time receptions leader and 3 (although 2 were weak) Super Bowl performances...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks for the Sharpe info too. I doubt that both will even get a sniff at the HOF. Of the two Sharpe was the better and more deserving. He along with Moore set the standard for 100+ catches in a season as a top number for receivers. Your right another 2 years he would probably be in. That would have given him 2 SB appearance and 1 win. Assuming that things still would have gone that way for the Pack. They probably would have as they were the best young team on the rise at that time.
Jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Althought not a hall of famer, I just picked this up for $90 dlvd. Not too bad - considering the centering is 50/50 to 55/45 t/b and l/r.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
When does the HOF announce the Sr. Candidates?
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Cliff Harris
Mick Tinglehoff
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Just can't let go, eh Andy?
Charlie Conerly
Pat Fischer
L.C. Greenwood
Cliff Harris
Bob Hayes
Gene Hickerson
Chuck Howley
Claude Humphrey
Lee Roy Jordan
Floyd Little
Jim Marshall
Tommy Nobis
Dave Robinson
Charlie Sanders
Otis Taylor
Mick Tingelhoff
Billy Wilson
Interesting note is that Charlie Sanders wasn't even a Senior finalist for 2006...So it's possible that a candidate NOT on this list from last year could end up being a HOFer next year.
First time Senior Candidates for 2008, who were modern candidates for the last time in 2007:
Lemar Parrish-CB, Redskins-Bengals
Isiah Robertson-LB, Rams-Bills
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Although I would find it hard to believe that Conerly would get in before the likes of Brodie, Gabriel, Hadl, Simms, Stabler, Anderson, Theismann, Esiason, etc......
I would really like to see Kramer and Tinglehoff get the nod, but I can't see them putting in two OL guys the same year.
Jason, by the way, nice work on the receivers chart you did.
It's a great way to help put values on players from different era's.
Keep up the good research work. You should publish a book on this type of info. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
<< <i>I'm going to take a shot with Conerly and Humphrey. I figure one guy(Conerly) played mostly in the 1950's on offense in New York, the other (Humphrey) played defense in the south with Atlanta in mostly the 1970's. Is Conerly still kicking? He must be over 80 now. It's about time he got recognized for his fine play before he tips over.
Although I would find it hard to believe that Conerly would get in before the likes of Brodie, Gabriel, Hadl, Simms, Stabler, Anderson, Theismann, Esiason, etc......
I would really like to see Kramer and Tinglehoff get the nod, but I can't see them putting in two OL guys the same year.
Jason, by the way, nice work on the receivers chart you did.
It's a great way to help put values on players from different era's.
Keep up the good research work. You should publish a book on this type of info. I would buy it in a heartbeat. >>
Conerly died about 8 or 10 years ago I believe. I recently picked up an autographed card of him as I believe he will eventually be inducted.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Can you prepare a similiar chart for for RB and QB?
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Just added John Gilliam (34), Harold Jackson (35) and Harold Carmichael (37) to the list...All very good players, but to me not HOF level.
So is there anyone on this list who is truly HOF caliber yet getting totally overlooked? I think of those 4 guys Branch, Pearson, Howton and Wilson all 4 at least deserve some consideration. Branch and Pearson are still modern candidates and never even get mentioned....
Jason >>
My top 5 deserving eligible WR's not in the Hall yet :
Mac Speedie
Bob Hayes
Billy Wilson
Cliff Branch
Art Monk
Pretty much every decade is covered with these five guys.
Next would be:
Sterling Sharpe**
Drew Pearson
Max McGee**
Gary Clark
Lavern Dilweg **(played in the 1920's and '30's).
**Sorry for the Packers bias**.
Obviously if Cris Carter, Andre Reed, and Tim Brown would be locks too when they're eligible.
Jason, just for the heck of it, where would Del Shofner (5 time All-Pro) and Gary Collins of the Browns rank on the rankings list? Both were outstanding players.
Rich
I was already doing one for the RB's, but didn't really like or agree with how it came out, especially for the Pre-WWII guys since alot of stats weren't kept back then and most of those guys had very short careers. Here's what I got:
1- Jim Brown- 122
2- Emmitt Smith- 106
3- Walter Payton- 99
4- Barry Sanders- 98
5- Marshall Faulk- 77
6- Lenny Moore- 76
7- Steve Van Buren- 73
8- Jim Taylor- 67
9-Terrell Davis- 63
9- Franco Harris- 63
9- Thurman Thomas- 63
12- Eric Dickerson- 62
13- Marcus Allen- 61
13- Frank Gifford- 61
13- Clark Hinkle- 61
16- Earl Campbell- 60
17- OJ Simpson- 55
18- Larry Csonka- 51
18- Ernie Nevers- 51
18- Joe Perry- 51
21- Bronko Nagurski- 49
22- Leroy Kelly- 48
23- Cliff Battles- 47
23- Paul Hornung- 47
25- Gale Sayers- 46
26- Shaun Alexander- 44
27- Curtis Martin- 43
28- Marion Motley- 42
29- Tony Dorsett- 38
29- Ottis Anderson- 38
31- John Henry Johnson- 36
31- John Riggins- 36
31- Ken Strong- 36
34- Jerome Bettis- 34
35- Doak Walker- 32
35- Ricky Watters- 32
37- Corey Dillon- 30
37- Edgerrin James- 30
39- Eddie George- 29
39- Ollie Matson- 29
39- Hugh McElhenney- 29
42- Red Grange- 28
43- Tiki Barber- 26
43- Tony Canadeo- 26
45- George McAfee- 24
46- Charlie Trippi- 21
47- William Andrews- 19
48- Billy Sims- 18
Let me know what you think...I think its a little off...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Jason, just for the heck of it, where would Del Shofner (5 time All-Pro) and Gary Collins of the Browns rank on the rankings list? Both were outstanding players.
Rich >>
WOW, nice find on Shofner. He rates a 61! I've mentioned him before as an overlooked guy, but was not aware that he was that dominant.
Gary Collins rates a 30. I am going to add these 2 to the master list...
Updated list below:
***= Guys who have been HOF candidates, but not been elected.
1- Jerry Rice- 189
2- Don Hutson- 163
3- Lance Alworth- 90
4- Marvin Harrison- 80
5- Steve Largent- 70
6- Raymond Berry- 66
7- Paul Warfield- 64
7- Cris Carter- 64
9- Pete Pihos- 63
10- Fred Biletnikoff- 62
10- Dante Lavelli- 62
12- James Lofton- 61
12- Del Shofner- 61***
14- Mac Speedie- 60***
15- Bob Hayes- 59***
15- Don Maynard- 59
17- Cliff Branch- 56***
18- Bobby Mitchell- 55
18- Charley Taylor- 55
20- Torry Holt- 54
20- Tommy McDonald- 54
20- Terrell Owens- 54
23- Michael Irvin- 52
23- John Stallworth- 52
25-Sterling Sharpe- 50***
26- Tim Brown- 49
26- Tom Fears- 49
26- Andre Reed- 49***
29- Art Monk- 48***
29- Lynn Swann- 48
31- Elroy Hirsch- 47
31- Billy Howton- 47***
31- Drew Pearson- 47***
33- Randy Moss- 46
34- Gark Clark- 45***
34- Billy Wilson- 45***
36- Harold Carmichael- 37***
37- Isaac Bruce- 35
37- Harold Jackson- 35***
37- Charlie Joiner- 35
40- John Gilliam- 34***
41- Gary Collins- 30***
42- Antonio Freeman- 29
43- Max McGee- 28***
43- Jimmy Smith- 28
44- Henry Ellard- 26***
45- Irving Fryar- 23***
45- Wayne Millner- 23
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Chad
I was figuring between $1500-$2000...
$2605 makes it the most valuable card in the set...As the Elway's sell for around 2k and the Marino around 1K...Maybe this will send some people searching their raw 1984 sets and maybe getting some more 10's graded...I think I have one that I pulled from a 1984 Box i got from BBCE...Trying to get to 100 cards before sending in...Still about 15 short...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Its VERY likely that other snipes were placed that didn't go off because of the big 2K plus snipes trumped them..No way that card sells for $375 even if #1 and #2 weren't bidding...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
but who knows, #1's been known to bid on the same item over again
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Getting back to your RB list, what stats are used for the totals?
I'm just wondering because I'm very surprised Gifford ranks so much higher than other '50's same type backs, namely McElhenny and Matson. I guess if you put receiving stats into the mix and team success, that's where he picked up many extra points. Gifford ran for only 3600 yards in his career and was used as an end his last three years and rarely carried the ball. Just curious.
It's nice to see a back like Van Buren near the top. He was simply dominant for about 5 years of his 8 year NFL career. He put up some big numbers in 12 game seasons and had some tremendous playoff games too. At least the list recognizes some of the 1930's stars too like Hinkle, Battles, and Nagurski.
Somewhat surprising is the low rankings for some of the modern backs: Dillon, George, Bettis, and Watters. I guess padding your rushing totals in those 16 game seasons doesn't cut it on this list. Quality counts over quantity.
I thought Tiki would rank higher too due to his last 6 seasons being excellent, with lot's of rushing and receiving yards plus a high avg. yards per carry. Maybe not enough TD's.
Where would a short career star like William Andrews rank? It's really too bad he got hurt and had a brief career. His yards from scrimmage every year were pretty outstanding, as was his avg. per carry. Same with Billy Sims.
Rich
-Top 5 and Top 10 finishes per season in Rush Yds, Rush TDs, Receptions, Rec. Yds and Rec TDs
-1st Team All-Pro selections (AP)
-Pro Bowl selections
-MVP, Off Player of the Year Awards
-All-Time career leader in a major category (rush yds and rush TDs for the RBs)
-Super Bowl or Championship game performances in the Pre-Super Bowl era...
Some issues....For the old-timers like Gifford, there were fewer teams and less competition than current players for finishing in the top 5 or top 10. But they also played fewer seasons, so it somewhat evens out...For the 60's and for the 1946-1949 seasons, top 5 and top 10 finishes are concluded using ALL comparable leagues (AAFC and AFL)...So I'm not counting a Top 5 AFL or NFL finish alone as a top 5 finish. I used stats from BOTH leagues combined and the player would need to be in the top 5 from all AFL/NFL players for that season.
Obviously Gifford got alot of bonus points for Championship game performances, while guys like Matson and McElhenney did not..McElhenney also shared part of his career with Joe Perry in the same backfield..
I don't have my encyclopedias with all the info with me tonight, so I will post Andrews and Sims numbers tomorrow. Off the top of my head I would think they won't score real high because of the short careers and no Super Bowls. In this system, no player will ever "lose" points...They can only gain points each season using the above categories. I need to run Terrell Davis as well, and he might do well with his awards and Super Bowl performances..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I love these threads.
Could you break down your formula for me. I got the 5 points you use as criteria, how does each factor into the formula.
Im so glad your on these boards man
thanks
joe
William Andrews (19)
Billy Sims (18)
Terrell Davis (63)
T.D.s ranking puts him above Eric Dickerson and Marcus Allen and tied with Franco Harris...And he did it in just 7 seasons...He should get into the HOF IMO...He was the #1 player in the game from 1996-1998. MVP, 2 time Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP, 3 times 1st team All-Pro...
Joe, I can't give away all my secrets..lolol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.