There's no way Bledsoe or Otis Anderson make the Future HOFer set..lolol
Hey Dave, can you post the link to that Net54 message board you put up? I'm away from home and don't have the link..You have a bunch of our previous lists there all neatly put into one thread....
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Idea sounds good to me. But one question, are we going to have to spend $700 for the SP authentic Manning since it is a numbered card or will one of the Chrome cards be the "card". I know this was discussed early, but using numbered cards is unappealing to me. I can see paying that for an awesome old card of a great, but paying 3x the price of a PSA 9 Rice or Maintana for a Manning is way off base. I guess I still can't believe he got the MVP. the most valuable player for the Colts was Rex Grossman.
Here is a list of modern/current players I would vote for to go on the set. The number to the right is the number of YES votes for each player...
Gary Anderson-4 Steve At-water-4 Jerome Bettis-4 Tim Brown-4 LeRoy Butler-4 Cris Carter-4 Terrell Davis-4 Dermontti Dawson-4 Richard Dent-4 Marshall Faulk-4 Darrell Green-4 Russ Grimm-4 Ray Guy-4 Lester Hayes-4 Bob Kuechenberg-4 Curtis Martin-4 Randall McDaniel-4 Art Monk-4 John Randle-4 Andre Reed-4 Jerry Rice-4 William Roaf-4 Deion Sanders-4 Shannon Sharpe-4 Will Shields-4 Bruce Smith-4 Emmitt Smith-4 Jimmy Smith-4 Derrick Thomas-4 Aeneas Williams-4 Rod Woodson-4 Gary Zimmerman-4
Larry Allen-4 Morten Andersen-4 Derrick Brooks-4 Isaac Bruce-4 Jason Elam-3 Brett Favre-4 Tony Gonzalez-4 Marvin Harrison-4 Ray Lewis-4 John Lynch-4 Peyton Manning-4 Jonathan Ogden-4 Junior Seau-4 Zach Thomas-3 Adam Vinitiari-4
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-1 Ladanian Tomlinson-3 Champ Bailey-3 Hines Ward-2 Michael Strahan-3 Edge James-1 CoreyDillon-1 Tom Brady-3 Torry Holt-3 Brian Urlacher-2 Orlando Pace-3 Tiki Barber-1 Rod Smith-1 Walter Jones-1
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Idea sounds good to me. But one question, are we going to have to spend $700 for the SP authentic Manning since it is a numbered card or will one of the Chrome cards be the "card". I know this was discussed early, but using numbered cards is unappealing to me. I can see paying that for an awesome old card of a great, but paying 3x the price of a PSA 9 Rice or Maintana for a Manning is way off base. I guess I still can't believe he got the MVP. the most valuable player for the Colts was Rex Grossman. >>
Bill,
I would prefer to keep this set in-line with the rest of the Key Card sets, so yes, the SP Manning would be the card. FYI, they are selling under $600 lately..
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm glad you guys like the idea... and I'm glad to see you're running with it. JasP has experience in putting these type of sets together so I'm happy he's willing to organize it.
I definitely think there are enough senoir guys to warrant a putting them in the set. The only question is do we want a seperate set.
I was thinking it could be a sepearte list because the idea would be slightly different. Modern and current players would be for Locks (or near eventual locks), while the senior list would be more speculative. Is Beattie Feathers going to get selected at some point or Charely Connerly maybe Jack Kemp(??) or perhaps Tommy Nobis (my choice for next year). I think the senior players are much more difficult to figure out. This is where I would find a set to be most helpful for my collecting. Part of the critera could be how many times a players has been a senior finalist (early in the thread there was a detailed discussion -- # times finalist, # pro bowls, etc). The modern set would also be helpful because we could settle issues of which card to include for the HOF RC set long before they get to the HOF. Since the senior set has a slightly different set of issues I suggested seprating them but I'm ok either way.
Also as a general philosophy I think it would be good to be more inclusive rather than exclusive. I would rather see a guy in the set for 20 years without being selected than someone sneaking in without spending time in our future HOF set (this is more difficult for the senior candidates).
On Manning, yes it must be the SP Authentic. Just be glad it isnt the Playoff Contenders Auto. I just sold my NM-MT raw (it would have graded PSA 8) for just over $2k It will help pay for some of the HOF RC I've bought recently. A PSA 9 runs $3k.
Also I think Manning's SP Authentic card being worth 3x more than Rice RC or Montana RC is justified since he is at least 3 times better P In truth just look at the supply and that will account for much of the difference. The card I'm having trouble justifying the money on is a 2000 SP Tom Brady RC.
On the voting... only a few choices give me pause (Jimmy Smith, Leroy Butler, Jason Elam). Jason Elam is the only guy I would vote against (he's a kicker with less than 2000 pts). I think Jimmy Smith could get in eventually and I claim ignorance on Leroy Butler so I defer to JasP. For the new suggestions
Jason Taylor (too early -- NO) Tomlinson (eventual choice now -- lock after this season -- YES) Champ Bailey (eventual -- YES) Hines Ward (eventual -- YES -- one of my favorite receivers -- delivers crushing blocks) Michael Strahan (eventual -- YES) Edge James (on the bubble needs more stats -- NO? -- I'm so glad the colts ditched this guy) C. Dillon (on the bubble needs more stats -- NO?) Tom Brady (3 SB rings = lock regardless of stats -- YES) Holt (eventual -- lock soon -- YES) Brian Urlacher (too soon but getting close -- NO) Orlando Pace (eventual -- soon to be lock -- YES)
It's way way early but which card would we choose for Shawn Merrieman? His 2005 SP Auth is numbered to /850 I think so by previous discussions that could rule it out.
The last one on eBay went for $406, and that was only a few months ago. I thought I overpaid for one in a private sale recently, but compared to this price it was a bargain. Football remains RED HOT!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
BigSteve had some money to spend after his sales the past couple of weeks.
Edited to say, I don't understand it though. He sold a PSA 10 Page, PSA 9 Eller, PSA 8 Tarkenton and numerous other HOF'ers in high grade...then buys this 9 for nearly $700... Is he on the HOF set registry?
You are right though, football is RED HOT. Great if your selling, or buying raw and grading (then selling)...not so good if you're buying or trying to upgrade.
<< <i>BigSteve had some money to spend after his sales the past couple of weeks. >>
Interestingly enough, BigSteve is the seller who was a topic of discussion earlier in this thread for having many trimmed cards on submissions with otherwise high-grade, high $$$ cards.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>BigSteve had some money to spend after his sales the past couple of weeks. >>
Interestingly enough, BigSteve is the seller who was a topic of discussion earlier in this thread for having many trimmed cards on submissions with otherwise high-grade, high $$$ cards. >>
Sssshhh... I saw it, I just didn't mention it.
I am curious why he would buy the PSA 9 Shell, that's all. If he's a HOF collector, why part with the high grade examples he had, unless they are dupes only to turn around and pay what amonts to 75% over the last sale for another card in the set. I just wonder what the motive is. Not saying he's up to anything at all, just seems odd to me.
Oh well, none of my business I suppose. Besides, I get to golf in the morning and I'm stoked! It's been 5 1/2 months.
<< <i>I am curious why he would buy the PSA 9 Shell, that's all. If he's a HOF collector, why part with the high grade examples he had, unless they are dupes only to turn around and pay what amonts to 75% over the last sale for another card in the set. I just wonder what the motive is. Not saying he's up to anything at all, just seems odd to me. >>
As long as it doesn't amazingly show up in a PSA 10 holder soon, it doesn't matter to me.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
OK, I have consolidated the votes so far. I agree with Mike, we should be more inclusive, but I also think we should have a minimum "time in service" for these guys..Say 5 completed seasons? That way, we don't have guys like Shawn Merriman being added to the set too soon.
I also agree we should separate the seniors list so we can have a different set of standards to judge on. So far, we only have 4 voters, I'd say we need at least 7 to get a good cross-section and then go with majority vote. Based on the "inclusive" standards, I have added Walter Jones, who has almost identical credentials as Orlando Pace thus far.
Here are the votes so far:
The number to the right is the number of YES votes for each player...
Gary Anderson-8 Steve At-water-8 Jerome Bettis-8 Tim Brown-8 LeRoy Butler-8 Cris Carter-8 Terrell Davis-7 Dermontti Dawson-8 Richard Dent-8 Marshall Faulk-8 Darrell Green-8 Russ Grimm-8 Ray Guy-8 Lester Hayes-8 Bob Kuechenberg-8 Curtis Martin-8 Randall McDaniel-8 Art Monk-8 John Randle-8 Andre Reed-8 Jerry Rice-8 William Roaf-8 Deion Sanders-8 Shannon Sharpe-8 Will Shields-8 Bruce Smith-8 Emmitt Smith-8 Jimmy Smith-7 Derrick Thomas-8 Aeneas Williams-8 Rod Woodson-8 Gary Zimmerman-8
Larry Allen-8 Morten Andersen-8 Derrick Brooks-8 Isaac Bruce-8 Jason Elam-7 Brett Favre-8 Tony Gonzalez-8 Marvin Harrison-8 Ray Lewis-8 John Lynch-7 Peyton Manning-8 Jonathan Ogden-8 Junior Seau-8 Zach Thomas-6 Adam Vinitiari-8
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-3 Ladanian Tomlinson-6 Champ Bailey-7 Hines Ward-4 Michael Strahan-7 Edge James-2 CoreyDillon-2 Tom Brady-6 Torry Holt-7 Brian Urlacher-5 Orlando Pace-6 Tiki Barber-3 Rod Smith-2 Walter Jones-4
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>There is no one on the list that I think should be left off. Although, I don't know enough about At-water to have an opinion.
Do all these guys have a "legitimate" chance at the HOF. If there are any that have "no chance", I would want to leave them off.
Dave >>
Dave, as Mike brought up earlier, the thinking here is that the Modern Player set with more inclusive, and therefore fluid..So guys can and will come off as they make the HOF or fall out of the HOF conversation. You have guys that are LOCKS and guys that are probable and guys that are possible...My initial list contained all LOCKS and all PROBABLES(IMO)...The additional players that a few others requested are possible guys who COULD become HOFers given more time, but not if they retired today...
So if you want to vote against the possibles, let me know and I will subtract your votes...
Favrefan, I have counted yours as well.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I like all the players listed, without taking any off. I have most of those RC's with a couple others on my "wish list".
I do, however think we should limit the # of players in the set at any one time. How about 50. Then, once they get elected to the HOF, we could vote on which one's to include after that.
I personally would take off At-water (like i said, I dont know much about him), Hines Ward, Rod Smith, and Leroy BUtler
<< <i>I like all the players listed, without taking any off. I have most of those RC's with a couple others on my "wish list".
I do, however think we should limit the # of players in the set at any one time. How about 50. Then, once they get elected to the HOF, we could vote on which one's to include after that.
I personally would take off At-water (like i said, I dont know much about him), Hines Ward, Rod Smith, and Leroy BUtler >>
Well, as you can see by the votes, some aren't going to make it anyway...We can try and cut it to 50, and even name the set Top 50 Future NFL HOFers?
As of right now, there are 61 players listed, and 7 of them don't have the majority vote..So we would need to cut 4 more guys..I would assume the fair thing to do would be to cut the guys with the fewest votes, and the next 2 would be: Urlacher and Pace...Then we would need to vote on the guys with 6 votes each and cut 2 of them...
First lets wait on some more votes to come in...Once we get something locked down, we can start discussing the Senior candidates...THAT is going to be much tougher..Alot of them are unknown to many collectors...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It really suprises me that some have voted against Urlacher.....
Dave >>
I voted for him, but based on the "inclusive" idea..Otherwise, I wouldn't have any of the additions like Tomlinson, Urlacher, Brady...I mean if they retired today are the HOFers or even probably HOFers? I would have to say no..Very limited sample on those guys thus far..Urlacher will end up on the set sooner or later though..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Whew just finished up my last office hours of the semester....
A few thoughts:
I don't like the idea of limiting the size of the set. I think inclusion should be based on probable induction to the HOF at some point in the future (perhaps even as a senoir candidate but when they run out of time as a modern candidate we could move them to the senior list). Of course if I'm in the minority on this I'll go with what you guys want to do. If we do decide to limit it or need more resolution to the voting I suggest we revote by saying whether a guy is Lock, Probable or Possible (it may be interesting to do anyway). For example I think Tom Brady is a Lock due to 3 SB wins (not a Brady fan by the way), but others disagree. This would give us a weighted result and make it easier to determine a ranking.
On the seniors list we might consider electing a 3 (or 5) person group that know their stuff about football history (defintely JasP -- certainly not me) to decide on the set composition with some limited appeal mechanism for those whose favorite old timer doesn't make it. Perhaps each person can appeal 3 players (on or off). If they are supported by at least one person on the selection comittee it can go for an up or down vote to everyone.
I agree 5 years minimum is a good rule. This will prevent any Kurt Warner's from being on the list. If someone makes the list and then implodes we could take someone off the list by 3/4 (or 2/3) majority vote. I wasn't suggesting Shawn Merriaman should be considered. It was just on off topic thought on what his main RC would be, but he does provide a good example.
I'm glad you guys like the idea so much. I have a bunch of other Key card set ideas that might be a lot of fun. Some are more obscure than others. I will post the ideas on another thread as I get time. I just thought this idea was highly relavent to this thread.
***Shameless Plug*** Check out my Ebay store and buy some stuff so I can afford more cards It's a good thing I've been collecting stuff for the last 25 years or there is no way I could pay for this HOF RC set (and stay married)
I think we should narrow the list even farther than 50, maybe 40. There are 5 kickers listed (4 w/ 7 votes and 1 w/ 6 votes). Do we really think that all these guys will get in? What are there 3 in the HOF (Groza, Wilson, and Stenerud).
How about no more than 25 offensive and the balance Defensive/Special teams players (total 40)?
I broke them out by position grouping: QB Brett Favre Peyton Manning Tom Brady (these are pretty much locks)
RB Emmitt Smith Marshall Faulk Curtis Martin Jerome Bettis then LT and Terrell Davis (probably)
WR Jerry Rice Tim Brown Cris Carter Marvin Harrison (these 4 for sure) Then whoever the next two were on the WR rating
OF Line Dermonti Dawson Russ Grimm Bob Kuechenberg Randall MCDaniel Willie Roaf Gary Zimmerman Jonathon Ogden
TE Shannon Sharpe Tony Gonzales
DL Bruce Smith Derrick Thomas (these for sure) Richard Dent
LB Junior Seau Ray Lewis Derrick Brooks (these for sure) Urlacher or Thomas
DB Darrell Green Deon Sanders (these for sure) Rod Woodson John Lynch Aeneas Williams Champ Bailey or Steve At-water
Kicker Ray Guy Morten Andersen Adam Vinitari
Then as people enter the HOF, we can decide whether it should be Offensive or Defensive added in 1 vote and narrow the list down, then vote on 5-10 guys not on the list already.
Thoughts? This should help all of us get ready for future HOFers.
It seems everyone is working off Jasp's list for Senior selections. That seems like a no brainer to me.
I changed my mind on Urlacher. I think he's probable now so YES >>
Vote added...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bill, here is a list I did that did not include active players and I broke it down by position...Might make easier for you to vote. I don't see us limiting it down to 40, or even by Offense/defense...If a guy is deserving, he's deserving...I would be willing to go as low as 50, as hat probably wouldn't exclude guys who are highly probable or that alot of collectors want to see on the set (calculated via vote). You are free to only vote for 40 though. Let me know if you would like me to use your posed list as your YES votes and everyone else no.
Retired, Modern Candidate players:
QB--Ken Stabler, Phil Simms, Ken Anderson, Randall Cunningham, Joe Theismann RB--Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, Tiki Barber, Terrell Davis, Ricky Watters WR--Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Art Monk, Tim Brown, Andre Reed TE--Shannon Sharpe, Todd Christensen, Ben Coates, Mark Bavaro, Steve Jordan OT--Willie Roaf, Gary Zimmerman, Jim Covert, Joe Jacoby, Tony Boselli OG--Bob Kuechenberg, Russ Grimm, Randall McDaniel, Will Shields, Steve Wisniewski, Chris Hinton OC--Dermontti Dawson, Mark Stepnoski, Kent Hull, Jeff Van Note, Jay Hilgenberg DE--Bruce Smith, Richard Dent, Fred Dean, Charles Haley, Chris Doleman DT--John Randle, Joe Klecko, Cortez Kennedy, Fred Smerlas LB--Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett, Randy Gradishar, Kevin Greene, Robert Brazile CB--Deion Sanders, Rod Woodson, Darrell Green, Lester Hayes, Aeneas Williams S--Steve At-water, Leroy Butler, Donnie Shell, Kenny Easley, Joey Browner K/P/ST--Ray Guy, Gary Anderson, Reggie Roby, Nick Lowery, Steve Tasker
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The number to the right is the number of YES votes for each player...
Gary Anderson-11 Steve At-water-9 Jerome Bettis-12 Tim Brown-12 LeRoy Butler-10 Cris Carter-12 Terrell Davis-10 Dermontti Dawson-12 Richard Dent-12 Marshall Faulk-12 Darrell Green-12 Russ Grimm-12 Ray Guy-12 Lester Hayes-10 Bob Kuechenberg-12 Curtis Martin-12 Randall McDaniel-12 Art Monk-11 John Randle-11 Andre Reed-11 Jerry Rice-12 William Roaf-12 Deion Sanders-12 Shannon Sharpe-11 Will Shields-11 Bruce Smith-12 Emmitt Smith-12 Jimmy Smith-8 Derrick Thomas-12 Aeneas Williams-12 Rod Woodson-12 Gary Zimmerman-11
Larry Allen-11 Morten Andersen-12 Derrick Brooks-12 Isaac Bruce-9 Jason Elam-7 Brett Favre-12 Tony Gonzalez-12 Marvin Harrison-12 Ray Lewis-12 John Lynch-10 Peyton Manning-12 Jonathan Ogden-12 Junior Seau-12 Zach Thomas-9 Adam Vinitiari-11
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-3 Ladanian Tomlinson-10 Champ Bailey-9 Hines Ward-4 Michael Strahan-8 Edge James-2 CoreyDillon-2 Tom Brady-9 Torry Holt-9 Brian Urlacher-8 Orlando Pace-7 Tiki Barber-4 Rod Smith-2 Walter Jones-4
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Looks like it's shaping up pretty well to me. I'd be happy with that list.
dave >>
Same here...Tomorrow I will lock the vote and we can start the senior list talk...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
All on the list are great football players, I would hold off on the following though:
against:
At-water (the computer filter has a dirtier mind than me...thats hard to do !!) Butler Davis Hayes Sharpe Smith, J Zimmerman bruce Elam Lynch Thomas Vinateria
plus against all the additions (for now) except; Tomlinson and Brady
Guys!! LOOK HERE !! News flash from the IRS... (this just handed me!)
Bidding on football HOF rookie cards (especially ones that Gabbs needs for upgrading his set) will increase your chance of an IRS audit by 400% !!
Not to pile on any additional cards to people's want lists, but...have any of you guys ever thought about starting a set (official or just personal) of guys in the College Football Hall of Fame? Either ones who are in both, (like Jim Brown and Dan Marino) or guys who fell short of Canton, but had stellar college careers (like Archie Griffin or Johnny Rodgers.)
On the modern guys from the top two lists, count me in on all except Jason Elam, Jimmy Smith (sorry) and Isaac Bruce.
On the next grouping, I would vote against adding as of now: Jason Taylor-3 Hines Ward-4 Edge James-2 CoreyDillon-2 Orlando Pace-6 Rod Smith-2 Walter Jones-4
Jason, I am for all except: At water Elam Jason Taylor Champ Bailey Hines Ward Michael Strahan Edge James CoreyDillon Tom Brady Tiki Barber Rod Smith Walter Jones
This is a great idea. Anyone have any job openings b/c I'm going to need a second soon!
Alright guys, the voting on the modern players is now complete. Here is the list who got at least 7 of the 12 votes (majority).
Gary Anderson-11 Steve At-water-9 Jerome Bettis-12 Tim Brown-12 LeRoy Butler-10 Cris Carter-12 Terrell Davis-10 Dermontti Dawson-12 Richard Dent-12 Marshall Faulk-12 Darrell Green-12 Russ Grimm-12 Ray Guy-12 Lester Hayes-10 Bob Kuechenberg-12 Curtis Martin-12 Randall McDaniel-12 Art Monk-11 John Randle-11 Andre Reed-11 Jerry Rice-12 William Roaf-12 Deion Sanders-12 Shannon Sharpe-11 Will Shields-11 Bruce Smith-12 Emmitt Smith-12 Jimmy Smith-8 Derrick Thomas-12 Aeneas Williams-12 Rod Woodson-12 Gary Zimmerman-11
Larry Allen-11 Morten Andersen-12 Derrick Brooks-12 Isaac Bruce-9 Jason Elam-7 Brett Favre-12 Tony Gonzalez-12 Marvin Harrison-12 Ray Lewis-12 John Lynch-10 Peyton Manning-12 Jonathan Ogden-12 Junior Seau-12 Zach Thomas-9 Adam Vinitiari-11
Ladanian Tomlinson-10 Champ Bailey-9 Michael Strahan-8 Tom Brady-9 Torry Holt-9 Brian Urlacher-8 Orlando Pace-7
54 players, total. I will put together the spreadsheet with card and grade weight today and post here so you can get a head start..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Shhould we include anymore retired players that are still being considered?
Ken Stabler, Joe Theismann, and others could be added to get the list to 60. I don't want to be scrambling for another Roger Wehrli or Charlie Sanders. Jasp had several players that were not on his list 9a page back) and are not senior candidates yet.
I think the 6 should be: Ken Stabler Joe Theismann Donnie Shell Ken Easley Randy Gradishar Jim Covert
We can add anyone who gets 7 votes...The question is, do we want guys on that are possible, but not likley?
All the players you listed fall into that category. Roger Wehrli would have also though...
Sanders was a senior candidate, and all of those guys are possible but not likley...Our current list of 54 is IMO, all players who are either locks are probables...I'd give every one of them at least a 50% shot.
New question for everyone...
Terrell Davis...1995 SP or 1995 Select Certified? On ebay the SP sells for more in PSA 10. In the SMR, the value in PSA 8 and PSA 9 are the same, and the SP is more valuable in PSA 10 ($50-$30). But the Select Certified is on the Super Bowl set and the Broncos set. Also, during his MVP seasons, the Select Certified was much more sought after. But it's close..I own both, so it doesn't matter to me.
Let me know, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ok, here is the list with the card and grade weight. Only question mark is Terrell Davis..SP or Select Certified. Sorry about the format, Copy and pasted from Excel.
Card # Year Co. First Name Last Name Grade Weight 367 1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 4 219 1974 TOPPS RAY GUY 5.5 195 1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 2 194 1981 TOPPS ART MONK 3 356 1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 1 300 1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 1 380 1984 TOPPS DARRELL GREEN 1.5 381 1984 TOPPS RUSS GRIMM 1.5 24 1985 TOPPS RICHARD DENT 4.5 161 1986 TOPPS JERRY RICE 7.5 388 1986 TOPPS ANDRE REED 3 389 1986 TOPPS BRUCE SMITH 3.5 207 1987 TOPPS GARY ZIMMERMAN 1 235 1989 PRO SET RANDALL MCDANIEL 1 72 1989 SCORE CRIS CARTER 1.5 78 1989 SCORE ROD WOODSON 1 86 1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 1.5 246 1989 SCORE DEION SANDERS 1 258 1989 SCORE DERRICK THOMAS 1 263 1989 SCORE STEVE AT-WATER 1 408S 1989 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL DERMONTTI DAWSON 1 10 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 1 46 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE SHANNON SHARPE 1.5 65T 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL JUNIOR SEAU 1 101T 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL EMMITT SMITH 5 835 1991 PRO SET JOHN RANDLE 1 94T 1991 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL AENEAS WILLIAMS 1 94 1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 4.5 228 1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 1 421 1993 BOWMAN WILLIE ROAF 1 6 1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 5.5 75 1993 SP JASON ELAM 1 123 1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 1 259 1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 1 331 1993 ULTRA MICHAEL STRAHAN 1 68 1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 1 300 1994 PLAYOFF LARRY ALLEN 1 3 1994 SP MARSHALL FAULK 1.5 18 1995 SP CURTIS MARTIN 2.5 103 1995 SP DERRICK BROOKS 1 130/126 1995 SP/SELECT CERTIFIED TERRELL DAVIS 1 164 1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 2 4 1996 SP JONATHAN OGDEN 1 18 1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 3.5 91 1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 1 199 1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 1 1 1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1 11 1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 1.5 14 1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 10 96 1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 4.5 111 1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 4 118 2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 10 122 2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 6 221 2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON 7.5
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
OK, now the hard part...I have listed below 50 possible senior candidates. 25 offense and 25 defense. I went through recent Senior finalists and senior nominee lists to find the guys who's names were coming up most often (who actually have cards..lol). Since the max every year is 2, and with the players who are currently modern candidates that will soon become senior candidates in the near future this list is pretty inclusive. Many of us do not know much about the guys on the list. All I can say is, go with your best judgement. Maybe do a google search and see what you can find out? Same as before, we will go with majority vote.
QBs Charlie Conerly-3 John Hadl Jack Kemp
RBs Larry Brown Beattie Feathers Willie Galimore Floyd Little-3
WRs Bob Hayes-3 Billy Howton Art Powell Pete Retzlaff Del Shofner Mac Speedie-3 Otis Taylor-3 Billy Wilson-3
OL Ed Budde Ken Gray Winston Hill Jerry Kramer-3 John Niland Dick Stanfel-3 Walt Sweeney Mick Tingelhoff-3 Fuzzy Thurston Jim Tyrer
DLs Gene Brito Curley Culp L.C. Greenwood-3 Claude Humphrey-3 Rich Jackson-3 Alex Karras-3 Gene Lipscomb-3 Jim Marshall-1 Jerry Mays Tom Sestak
LBs Maxie Baughan Chris Hanburger-3 E.J. Holub Chuck Howley-3 Lee Roy Jordan-3 Tommy Nobis-3 Les Richter Dave Robinson-3 Andy Russell-3
DBs Dick Anderson Jack Butler-3 Pat Fischer-3 Cliff Harris-3 Lemar Parrish-3 Johnny Robinson-2
K/P Jim Bakken-1
I came up with 25 I think have a descent shot, or at least I feel are REALLY deserving. If anyone else has a name they want to throw in the hat, feel free. I left off a few guys who I don't think will ever be close and also could have forgotten about a player or 2..So many possibilities out there...Anyway, lets get the voting underway.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I am not all too familiar with the players as well. Though I tend to agree with the ones you have chosen. Someone like Feathers is hard to compare stats too. Really would need to compare him the players from his era that are already in.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I am not all too familiar with the players as well. Though I tend to agree with the ones you have chosen. Someone like Feathers is hard to compare stats too. Really would need to compare him the players from his era that are already in. >>
Feathers played from 1934-1940...He burst on the scene in '34 with the Bears and shared the backfield with Bronk Nagurski. Feathers was the first player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards in a season (11 games)..He averaged 8.4 yds per carry and scored 8 rushing TDs..Bronko actually had more rushing attempts that season (123-119), but Nagurski only had 586 yds. Feathers was named All-Pro that season along with Bronko, (no Pro Bowl back then), but would only be selected All-Pro one other time (1936-2nd team) in his short 7 year career..After his big time rookie season, he rushed for a total of 976 yds the rest of his career. He never finished in the top 5 rushing leaders after his rookie season.
I don't think he ever gets in because he was really just a one year wonder...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
<< <i>Here's my list.....
Dave >>
Dave,
There's no way Bledsoe or Otis Anderson make the Future HOFer set..lolol
Hey Dave, can you post the link to that Net54 message board you put up? I'm away from home and don't have the link..You have a bunch of our previous lists there all neatly put into one thread....
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Too bad that message board didn't take off like I had hoped.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Gary Anderson-4
Steve At-water-4
Jerome Bettis-4
Tim Brown-4
LeRoy Butler-4
Cris Carter-4
Terrell Davis-4
Dermontti Dawson-4
Richard Dent-4
Marshall Faulk-4
Darrell Green-4
Russ Grimm-4
Ray Guy-4
Lester Hayes-4
Bob Kuechenberg-4
Curtis Martin-4
Randall McDaniel-4
Art Monk-4
John Randle-4
Andre Reed-4
Jerry Rice-4
William Roaf-4
Deion Sanders-4
Shannon Sharpe-4
Will Shields-4
Bruce Smith-4
Emmitt Smith-4
Jimmy Smith-4
Derrick Thomas-4
Aeneas Williams-4
Rod Woodson-4
Gary Zimmerman-4
Larry Allen-4
Morten Andersen-4
Derrick Brooks-4
Isaac Bruce-4
Jason Elam-3
Brett Favre-4
Tony Gonzalez-4
Marvin Harrison-4
Ray Lewis-4
John Lynch-4
Peyton Manning-4
Jonathan Ogden-4
Junior Seau-4
Zach Thomas-3
Adam Vinitiari-4
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-1
Ladanian Tomlinson-3
Champ Bailey-3
Hines Ward-2
Michael Strahan-3
Edge James-1
CoreyDillon-1
Tom Brady-3
Torry Holt-3
Brian Urlacher-2
Orlando Pace-3
Tiki Barber-1
Rod Smith-1
Walter Jones-1
Votes counted for: jasp24, JLoo, mikescardcloset, jradke4
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Idea sounds good to me. But one question, are we going to have to spend $700 for the SP authentic Manning since it is a numbered card or will one of the Chrome cards be the "card". I know this was discussed early, but using numbered cards is unappealing to me. I can see paying that for an awesome old card of a great, but paying 3x the price of a PSA 9 Rice or Maintana for a Manning is way off base. I guess I still can't believe he got the MVP. the most valuable player for the Colts was Rex Grossman. >>
Bill,
I would prefer to keep this set in-line with the rest of the Key Card sets, so yes, the SP Manning would be the card. FYI, they are selling under $600 lately..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Very nice list Jason - I would vote Yes for all of them
A few other names, a couple mentioned earlier in this thread, but I think warrant a second look:
Jason Taylor
Tomlinson
Champ Bailey
Hines Ward
Michael Strahan
Edge James
C. Dillon
Tom Brady
Holt
Brian Urlacher
Orlando Pace
Maybe it's too early for a couple of these guys, maybe not.
A few others that are probably just outside: Tiki Barber, Rod Smith
I definitely think there are enough senoir guys to warrant a putting them in the set. The only question is do we want a seperate set.
I was thinking it could be a sepearte list because the idea would be slightly different. Modern and current players would be for Locks (or near eventual locks), while the senior list would be more speculative. Is Beattie Feathers going to get selected at some point or Charely Connerly maybe Jack Kemp(??) or perhaps Tommy Nobis (my choice for next year). I think the senior players are much more difficult to figure out. This is where I would find a set to be most helpful for my collecting. Part of the critera could be how many times a players has been a senior finalist (early in the thread there was a detailed discussion -- # times finalist, # pro bowls, etc). The modern set would also be helpful because we could settle issues of which card to include for the HOF RC set long before they get to the HOF. Since the senior set has a slightly different set of issues I suggested seprating them but I'm ok either way.
Also as a general philosophy I think it would be good to be more inclusive rather than exclusive. I would rather see a guy in the set for 20 years without being selected than someone sneaking in without spending time in our future HOF set (this is more difficult for the senior candidates).
On Manning, yes it must be the SP Authentic. Just be glad it isnt the Playoff Contenders Auto. I just sold my NM-MT raw (it would have graded PSA 8) for just over $2k
Also I think Manning's SP Authentic card being worth 3x more than Rice RC or Montana RC is justified since he is at least 3 times better
On the voting... only a few choices give me pause (Jimmy Smith, Leroy Butler, Jason Elam). Jason Elam is the only guy I would vote against (he's a kicker with less than 2000 pts). I think Jimmy Smith could get in eventually and I claim ignorance on Leroy Butler so I defer to JasP. For the new suggestions
Jason Taylor (too early -- NO)
Tomlinson (eventual choice now -- lock after this season -- YES)
Champ Bailey (eventual -- YES)
Hines Ward (eventual -- YES -- one of my favorite receivers -- delivers crushing blocks)
Michael Strahan (eventual -- YES)
Edge James (on the bubble needs more stats -- NO? -- I'm so glad the colts ditched this guy)
C. Dillon (on the bubble needs more stats -- NO?)
Tom Brady (3 SB rings = lock regardless of stats -- YES)
Holt (eventual -- lock soon -- YES)
Brian Urlacher (too soon but getting close -- NO)
Orlando Pace (eventual -- soon to be lock -- YES)
It's way way early but which card would we choose for Shawn Merrieman? His 2005 SP Auth is numbered to /850 I think so by previous discussions that could rule it out.
i pretty much agree with his list, except for Zach Thomas.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Artie 9
The last one on eBay went for $406, and that was only a few months ago. I thought I overpaid for one in a private sale recently, but compared to this price it was a bargain. Football remains RED HOT!
Edited to say, I don't understand it though. He sold a PSA 10 Page, PSA 9 Eller, PSA 8 Tarkenton and numerous other HOF'ers in high grade...then buys this 9 for nearly $700... Is he on the HOF set registry?
You are right though, football is RED HOT. Great if your selling, or buying raw and grading (then selling)...not so good if you're buying or trying to upgrade.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>BigSteve had some money to spend after his sales the past couple of weeks. >>
Interestingly enough, BigSteve is the seller who was a topic of discussion earlier in this thread for having many trimmed cards on submissions with otherwise high-grade, high $$$ cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>BigSteve had some money to spend after his sales the past couple of weeks. >>
Interestingly enough, BigSteve is the seller who was a topic of discussion earlier in this thread for having many trimmed cards on submissions with otherwise high-grade, high $$$ cards. >>
Sssshhh... I saw it, I just didn't mention it.
I am curious why he would buy the PSA 9 Shell, that's all. If he's a HOF collector, why part with the high grade examples he had, unless they are dupes only to turn around and pay what amonts to 75% over the last sale for another card in the set. I just wonder what the motive is. Not saying he's up to anything at all, just seems odd to me.
Oh well, none of my business I suppose. Besides, I get to golf in the morning and I'm stoked! It's been 5 1/2 months.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>I am curious why he would buy the PSA 9 Shell, that's all. If he's a HOF collector, why part with the high grade examples he had, unless they are dupes only to turn around and pay what amonts to 75% over the last sale for another card in the set. I just wonder what the motive is. Not saying he's up to anything at all, just seems odd to me. >>
As long as it doesn't amazingly show up in a PSA 10 holder soon, it doesn't matter to me.
I also agree we should separate the seniors list so we can have a different set of standards to judge on. So far, we only have 4 voters, I'd say we need at least 7 to get a good cross-section and then go with majority vote. Based on the "inclusive" standards, I have added Walter Jones, who has almost identical credentials as Orlando Pace thus far.
Here are the votes so far:
The number to the right is the number of YES votes for each player...
Gary Anderson-8
Steve At-water-8
Jerome Bettis-8
Tim Brown-8
LeRoy Butler-8
Cris Carter-8
Terrell Davis-7
Dermontti Dawson-8
Richard Dent-8
Marshall Faulk-8
Darrell Green-8
Russ Grimm-8
Ray Guy-8
Lester Hayes-8
Bob Kuechenberg-8
Curtis Martin-8
Randall McDaniel-8
Art Monk-8
John Randle-8
Andre Reed-8
Jerry Rice-8
William Roaf-8
Deion Sanders-8
Shannon Sharpe-8
Will Shields-8
Bruce Smith-8
Emmitt Smith-8
Jimmy Smith-7
Derrick Thomas-8
Aeneas Williams-8
Rod Woodson-8
Gary Zimmerman-8
Larry Allen-8
Morten Andersen-8
Derrick Brooks-8
Isaac Bruce-8
Jason Elam-7
Brett Favre-8
Tony Gonzalez-8
Marvin Harrison-8
Ray Lewis-8
John Lynch-7
Peyton Manning-8
Jonathan Ogden-8
Junior Seau-8
Zach Thomas-6
Adam Vinitiari-8
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-3
Ladanian Tomlinson-6
Champ Bailey-7
Hines Ward-4
Michael Strahan-7
Edge James-2
CoreyDillon-2
Tom Brady-6
Torry Holt-7
Brian Urlacher-5
Orlando Pace-6
Tiki Barber-3
Rod Smith-2
Walter Jones-4
Votes counted for: jasp24, JLoo, mikescardcloset, jradke4 , FavreFan1971, Davemri, gregm13, MAD
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Against
Jason Taylor
Hines Ward
Edge James
CoreyDillon
Brian Urlacher
Rod Smith
Walter Jones
I like the idea for the set
Do all these guys have a "legitimate" chance at the HOF. If there are any that have "no chance", I would want to leave them off.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>There is no one on the list that I think should be left off. Although, I don't know enough about At-water to have an opinion.
Do all these guys have a "legitimate" chance at the HOF. If there are any that have "no chance", I would want to leave them off.
Dave >>
Dave, as Mike brought up earlier, the thinking here is that the Modern Player set with more inclusive, and therefore fluid..So guys can and will come off as they make the HOF or fall out of the HOF conversation. You have guys that are LOCKS and guys that are probable and guys that are possible...My initial list contained all LOCKS and all PROBABLES(IMO)...The additional players that a few others requested are possible guys who COULD become HOFers given more time, but not if they retired today...
So if you want to vote against the possibles, let me know and I will subtract your votes...
Favrefan, I have counted yours as well.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I do, however think we should limit the # of players in the set at any one time. How about 50. Then, once they get elected to the HOF, we could vote on which one's to include after that.
I personally would take off At-water (like i said, I dont know much about him), Hines Ward, Rod Smith, and Leroy BUtler
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>I like all the players listed, without taking any off. I have most of those RC's with a couple others on my "wish list".
I do, however think we should limit the # of players in the set at any one time. How about 50. Then, once they get elected to the HOF, we could vote on which one's to include after that.
I personally would take off At-water (like i said, I dont know much about him), Hines Ward, Rod Smith, and Leroy BUtler >>
Well, as you can see by the votes, some aren't going to make it anyway...We can try and cut it to 50, and even name the set Top 50 Future NFL HOFers?
As of right now, there are 61 players listed, and 7 of them don't have the majority vote..So we would need to cut 4 more guys..I would assume the fair thing to do would be to cut the guys with the fewest votes, and the next 2 would be: Urlacher and Pace...Then we would need to vote on the guys with 6 votes each and cut 2 of them...
First lets wait on some more votes to come in...Once we get something locked down, we can start discussing the Senior candidates...THAT is going to be much tougher..Alot of them are unknown to many collectors...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>It really suprises me that some have voted against Urlacher.....
Dave >>
I voted for him, but based on the "inclusive" idea..Otherwise, I wouldn't have any of the additions like Tomlinson, Urlacher, Brady...I mean if they retired today are the HOFers or even probably HOFers? I would have to say no..Very limited sample on those guys thus far..Urlacher will end up on the set sooner or later though..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
A few thoughts:
I don't like the idea of limiting the size of the set. I think inclusion should be based on probable induction to the HOF at some point in the future (perhaps even as a senoir candidate but when they run out of time as a modern candidate we could move them to the senior list). Of course if I'm in the minority on this I'll go with what you guys want to do. If we do decide to limit it or need more resolution to the voting I suggest we revote by saying whether a guy is Lock, Probable or Possible (it may be interesting to do anyway). For example I think Tom Brady is a Lock due to 3 SB wins (not a Brady fan by the way), but others disagree. This would give us a weighted result and make it easier to determine a ranking.
On the seniors list we might consider electing a 3 (or 5) person group that know their stuff about football history (defintely JasP -- certainly not me) to decide on the set composition with some limited appeal mechanism for those whose favorite old timer doesn't make it. Perhaps each person can appeal 3 players (on or off). If they are supported by at least one person on the selection comittee it can go for an up or down vote to everyone.
I agree 5 years minimum is a good rule. This will prevent any Kurt Warner's from being on the list. If someone makes the list and then implodes we could take someone off the list by 3/4 (or 2/3) majority vote. I wasn't suggesting Shawn Merriaman should be considered. It was just on off topic thought on what his main RC would be, but he does provide a good example.
I'm glad you guys like the idea so much. I have a bunch of other Key card set ideas that might be a lot of fun. Some are more obscure than others. I will post the ideas on another thread as I get time. I just thought this idea was highly relavent to this thread.
***Shameless Plug*** Check out my Ebay store and buy some stuff so I can afford more cards
How about no more than 25 offensive and the balance Defensive/Special teams players (total 40)?
I broke them out by position grouping:
QB
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
(these are pretty much locks)
RB
Emmitt Smith
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis
then LT and Terrell Davis (probably)
WR
Jerry Rice
Tim Brown
Cris Carter
Marvin Harrison (these 4 for sure)
Then whoever the next two were on the WR rating
OF Line
Dermonti Dawson
Russ Grimm
Bob Kuechenberg
Randall MCDaniel
Willie Roaf
Gary Zimmerman
Jonathon Ogden
TE
Shannon Sharpe
Tony Gonzales
DL
Bruce Smith
Derrick Thomas (these for sure)
Richard Dent
LB
Junior Seau
Ray Lewis
Derrick Brooks (these for sure)
Urlacher or Thomas
DB
Darrell Green
Deon Sanders (these for sure)
Rod Woodson
John Lynch
Aeneas Williams
Champ Bailey or Steve At-water
Kicker
Ray Guy
Morten Andersen
Adam Vinitari
Then as people enter the HOF, we can decide whether it should be Offensive or Defensive added in 1 vote and narrow the list down, then vote on 5-10 guys not on the list already.
Thoughts? This should help all of us get ready for future HOFers.
It seems everyone is working off Jasp's list for Senior selections. That seems like a no brainer to me.
I changed my mind on Urlacher. I think he's probable now so YES
<< <i>Ok Ok.....
I changed my mind on Urlacher. I think he's probable now so YES
Vote added...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Retired, Modern Candidate players:
QB--Ken Stabler, Phil Simms, Ken Anderson, Randall Cunningham, Joe Theismann
RB--Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, Tiki Barber, Terrell Davis, Ricky Watters
WR--Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Art Monk, Tim Brown, Andre Reed
TE--Shannon Sharpe, Todd Christensen, Ben Coates, Mark Bavaro, Steve Jordan
OT--Willie Roaf, Gary Zimmerman, Jim Covert, Joe Jacoby, Tony Boselli
OG--Bob Kuechenberg, Russ Grimm, Randall McDaniel, Will Shields, Steve Wisniewski, Chris Hinton
OC--Dermontti Dawson, Mark Stepnoski, Kent Hull, Jeff Van Note, Jay Hilgenberg
DE--Bruce Smith, Richard Dent, Fred Dean, Charles Haley, Chris Doleman
DT--John Randle, Joe Klecko, Cortez Kennedy, Fred Smerlas
LB--Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett, Randy Gradishar, Kevin Greene, Robert Brazile
CB--Deion Sanders, Rod Woodson, Darrell Green, Lester Hayes, Aeneas Williams
S--Steve At-water, Leroy Butler, Donnie Shell, Kenny Easley, Joey Browner
K/P/ST--Ray Guy, Gary Anderson, Reggie Roby, Nick Lowery, Steve Tasker
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The number to the right is the number of YES votes for each player...
Gary Anderson-11
Steve At-water-9
Jerome Bettis-12
Tim Brown-12
LeRoy Butler-10
Cris Carter-12
Terrell Davis-10
Dermontti Dawson-12
Richard Dent-12
Marshall Faulk-12
Darrell Green-12
Russ Grimm-12
Ray Guy-12
Lester Hayes-10
Bob Kuechenberg-12
Curtis Martin-12
Randall McDaniel-12
Art Monk-11
John Randle-11
Andre Reed-11
Jerry Rice-12
William Roaf-12
Deion Sanders-12
Shannon Sharpe-11
Will Shields-11
Bruce Smith-12
Emmitt Smith-12
Jimmy Smith-8
Derrick Thomas-12
Aeneas Williams-12
Rod Woodson-12
Gary Zimmerman-11
Larry Allen-11
Morten Andersen-12
Derrick Brooks-12
Isaac Bruce-9
Jason Elam-7
Brett Favre-12
Tony Gonzalez-12
Marvin Harrison-12
Ray Lewis-12
John Lynch-10
Peyton Manning-12
Jonathan Ogden-12
Junior Seau-12
Zach Thomas-9
Adam Vinitiari-11
Anyone wishing to vote, just post which guys you would vote AGAINST being added to the set and everyone you don't mention I will count a vote for them as a YES. If there is anyone you would like to ADD, post the name and I will add to the list.
Additions below:
Jason Taylor-3
Ladanian Tomlinson-10
Champ Bailey-9
Hines Ward-4
Michael Strahan-8
Edge James-2
CoreyDillon-2
Tom Brady-9
Torry Holt-9
Brian Urlacher-8
Orlando Pace-7
Tiki Barber-4
Rod Smith-2
Walter Jones-4
Votes counted for: jasp24, JLoo, mikescardcloset, jradke4 , FavreFan1971, Davemri, gregm13, MAD, BillsGridironGreats, Gabbs, cardbender, vjsteele4
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Looks like it's shaping up pretty well to me. I'd be happy with that list.
dave >>
Same here...Tomorrow I will lock the vote and we can start the senior list talk...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Great idea for a set!
Could be a very cool living set !!
All on the list are great football players, I would hold off on the following though:
against:
At-water (the computer filter has a dirtier mind than me...thats hard to do !!)
Butler
Davis
Hayes
Sharpe
Smith, J
Zimmerman
bruce
Elam
Lynch
Thomas
Vinateria
plus against all the additions (for now) except; Tomlinson and Brady
Guys!! LOOK HERE !! News flash from the IRS... (this just handed me!)
Bidding on football HOF rookie cards (especially ones that Gabbs needs for upgrading his set)
will increase your chance of an IRS audit by 400% !!
So please , all of you, cease and desist
Best Regards to all !!
Gabbs
Waiting on the senior list for Friday.
On the modern guys from the top two lists, count me in on all except Jason Elam, Jimmy Smith (sorry) and Isaac Bruce.
On the next grouping, I would vote against adding as of now: Jason Taylor-3
Hines Ward-4
Edge James-2
CoreyDillon-2
Orlando Pace-6
Rod Smith-2
Walter Jones-4
Thanks,
Rich
I am for all except:
At water
Elam
Jason Taylor
Champ Bailey
Hines Ward
Michael Strahan
Edge James
CoreyDillon
Tom Brady
Tiki Barber
Rod Smith
Walter Jones
This is a great idea.
Anyone have any job openings b/c I'm going to need a second soon!
Gary Anderson-11
Steve At-water-9
Jerome Bettis-12
Tim Brown-12
LeRoy Butler-10
Cris Carter-12
Terrell Davis-10
Dermontti Dawson-12
Richard Dent-12
Marshall Faulk-12
Darrell Green-12
Russ Grimm-12
Ray Guy-12
Lester Hayes-10
Bob Kuechenberg-12
Curtis Martin-12
Randall McDaniel-12
Art Monk-11
John Randle-11
Andre Reed-11
Jerry Rice-12
William Roaf-12
Deion Sanders-12
Shannon Sharpe-11
Will Shields-11
Bruce Smith-12
Emmitt Smith-12
Jimmy Smith-8
Derrick Thomas-12
Aeneas Williams-12
Rod Woodson-12
Gary Zimmerman-11
Larry Allen-11
Morten Andersen-12
Derrick Brooks-12
Isaac Bruce-9
Jason Elam-7
Brett Favre-12
Tony Gonzalez-12
Marvin Harrison-12
Ray Lewis-12
John Lynch-10
Peyton Manning-12
Jonathan Ogden-12
Junior Seau-12
Zach Thomas-9
Adam Vinitiari-11
Ladanian Tomlinson-10
Champ Bailey-9
Michael Strahan-8
Tom Brady-9
Torry Holt-9
Brian Urlacher-8
Orlando Pace-7
54 players, total. I will put together the spreadsheet with card and grade weight today and post here so you can get a head start..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ken Stabler, Joe Theismann, and others could be added to get the list to 60. I don't want to be scrambling for another Roger Wehrli or Charlie Sanders. Jasp had several players that were not on his list 9a page back) and are not senior candidates yet.
I think the 6 should be:
Ken Stabler
Joe Theismann
Donnie Shell
Ken Easley
Randy Gradishar
Jim Covert
All the players you listed fall into that category. Roger Wehrli would have also though...
Sanders was a senior candidate, and all of those guys are possible but not likley...Our current list of 54 is IMO, all players who are either locks are probables...I'd give every one of them at least a 50% shot.
New question for everyone...
Terrell Davis...1995 SP or 1995 Select Certified? On ebay the SP sells for more in PSA 10. In the SMR, the value in PSA 8 and PSA 9 are the same, and the SP is more valuable in PSA 10 ($50-$30). But the Select Certified is on the Super Bowl set and the Broncos set. Also, during his MVP seasons, the Select Certified was much more sought after. But it's close..I own both, so it doesn't matter to me.
Let me know,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Card # Year Co. First Name Last Name Grade Weight
367 1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 4
219 1974 TOPPS RAY GUY 5.5
195 1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 2
194 1981 TOPPS ART MONK 3
356 1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 1
300 1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 1
380 1984 TOPPS DARRELL GREEN 1.5
381 1984 TOPPS RUSS GRIMM 1.5
24 1985 TOPPS RICHARD DENT 4.5
161 1986 TOPPS JERRY RICE 7.5
388 1986 TOPPS ANDRE REED 3
389 1986 TOPPS BRUCE SMITH 3.5
207 1987 TOPPS GARY ZIMMERMAN 1
235 1989 PRO SET RANDALL MCDANIEL 1
72 1989 SCORE CRIS CARTER 1.5
78 1989 SCORE ROD WOODSON 1
86 1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 1.5
246 1989 SCORE DEION SANDERS 1
258 1989 SCORE DERRICK THOMAS 1
263 1989 SCORE STEVE AT-WATER 1
408S 1989 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL DERMONTTI DAWSON 1
10 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 1
46 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE SHANNON SHARPE 1.5
65T 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL JUNIOR SEAU 1
101T 1990 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL EMMITT SMITH 5
835 1991 PRO SET JOHN RANDLE 1
94T 1991 SCORE SUPPLEMENTAL AENEAS WILLIAMS 1
94 1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 4.5
228 1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 1
421 1993 BOWMAN WILLIE ROAF 1
6 1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 5.5
75 1993 SP JASON ELAM 1
123 1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 1
259 1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 1
331 1993 ULTRA MICHAEL STRAHAN 1
68 1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 1
300 1994 PLAYOFF LARRY ALLEN 1
3 1994 SP MARSHALL FAULK 1.5
18 1995 SP CURTIS MARTIN 2.5
103 1995 SP DERRICK BROOKS 1
130/126 1995 SP/SELECT CERTIFIED TERRELL DAVIS 1
164 1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 2
4 1996 SP JONATHAN OGDEN 1
18 1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 3.5
91 1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 1
199 1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 1
1 1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1
11 1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 1.5
14 1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 10
96 1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 4.5
111 1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 4
118 2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 10
122 2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 6
221 2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON 7.5
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
I guess I need to get busy..
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
QBs
Charlie Conerly-3
John Hadl
Jack Kemp
RBs
Larry Brown
Beattie Feathers
Willie Galimore
Floyd Little-3
WRs
Bob Hayes-3
Billy Howton
Art Powell
Pete Retzlaff
Del Shofner
Mac Speedie-3
Otis Taylor-3
Billy Wilson-3
OL
Ed Budde
Ken Gray
Winston Hill
Jerry Kramer-3
John Niland
Dick Stanfel-3
Walt Sweeney
Mick Tingelhoff-3
Fuzzy Thurston
Jim Tyrer
DLs
Gene Brito
Curley Culp
L.C. Greenwood-3
Claude Humphrey-3
Rich Jackson-3
Alex Karras-3
Gene Lipscomb-3
Jim Marshall-1
Jerry Mays
Tom Sestak
LBs
Maxie Baughan
Chris Hanburger-3
E.J. Holub
Chuck Howley-3
Lee Roy Jordan-3
Tommy Nobis-3
Les Richter
Dave Robinson-3
Andy Russell-3
DBs
Dick Anderson
Jack Butler-3
Pat Fischer-3
Cliff Harris-3
Lemar Parrish-3
Johnny Robinson-2
K/P
Jim Bakken-1
I came up with 25 I think have a descent shot, or at least I feel are REALLY deserving. If anyone else has a name they want to throw in the hat, feel free. I left off a few guys who I don't think will ever be close and also could have forgotten about a player or 2..So many possibilities out there...Anyway, lets get the voting underway.
Votes counted: jasp24, BillsGridironGreats, davemri
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I am not all too familiar with the players as well. Though I tend to agree with the ones you have chosen. Someone like Feathers is hard to compare stats too. Really would need to compare him the players from his era that are already in. >>
Feathers played from 1934-1940...He burst on the scene in '34 with the Bears and shared the backfield with Bronk Nagurski. Feathers was the first player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards in a season (11 games)..He averaged 8.4 yds per carry and scored 8 rushing TDs..Bronko actually had more rushing attempts that season (123-119), but Nagurski only had 586 yds. Feathers was named All-Pro that season along with Bronko, (no Pro Bowl back then), but would only be selected All-Pro one other time (1936-2nd team) in his short 7 year career..After his big time rookie season, he rushed for a total of 976 yds the rest of his career. He never finished in the top 5 rushing leaders after his rookie season.
I don't think he ever gets in because he was really just a one year wonder...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I also have to add Jim Bakken to the list. The guy is on two all Decade Teams. I know I will get flack for Bakken
maybe a little more info like you did for feathers would help some of us that dont have the insight that you have.
jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's