Thanks Jason. I was looking through David Levin's site - and he has quite a few nice older cards but many are priced a grade above what he's grading his cards at (i.e. raw EX are being priced b/t a PSA 5 and PSA 6). I counter-offered $140 dlvd but that's as high as I'll go.
You are an amazing resource to have while building this set. By the way, I just picked up a nice PSA 8 Maynard rc for $120 over the weekend from Mikescardcloset...which I didn't think was a bad price as the card is beautifully centered.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Greg- PSA 5's and 6's on 48 Leaf are absolute bargains IMO right now. You should be able to find them graded for the same price as raw. I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight.
<< <i>Greg- PSA 5's and 6's on 48 Leaf are absolute bargains IMO right now. You should be able to find them graded for the same price as raw. I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight. >>
Frank - I will buy a few NFL HOF PSA 5's and 6's if you have any.
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Also, why is the 1948 Bednarik so hard to find. There are only 6 graded with none graded higher than a PSA 6. There seem to be quite a few cards from the 1948 that are tough to find but I can't believe that a HOF rc has only 6 graded copies. Is it that rare or are there a lot raw that just haven't been graded yet?
Regards,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Dave is correct..The pops are a little higher when you add all the variations together. But the Nomellini and Bednarik are High numbered (from 50-98) and were supposedly produced in lower quantities than the early series 1-49...Those cards are particularly hard to find in high grade..I sold my PSA 6 Bednarik about a year and a half ago for over 3K...My PSA 7 Luckman sold for 5 figures last year this time..Its tough in high grade because its card #1.
48 Leaf is absolutely the most undervalued football set in existence..The high grade raw stuff just isn't out there...PSA 7 and up is near impossible.
Since June 2003 when I started tracking the pops, less than 20 PSA 7 or higher 1948 Leaf HOF RCs have been graded...And 2 of those were mine (a Doak Walker that I crossed from GAI which was the first PSA 7 Walker graded since 2003, plus a PSA 7 Waterfield I crossed from SGC)...
Thats less than five PSA 7 or higher new cards per year over the last 4 years..And we are talking 12 different HOFers here..Not EACH guy, TOTAL for all...
They are amazingly scarce...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Finally landed a toughie..... Got it off Naxcom of all places. Been looking for this one since last year. Very few on Ebay. Poor scan is courtesy of Naxcom....
That's a nice looking 7 Dave. Congrats. I was lucky enough to pick up a 9 recently. Very tough card. You don't even see raw Wright rookies on eBay these days - in any condition.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
The only other thing I've ever bought off Naxcom were VIP passes to the last 2 nationals. I search for tough cards on there maybe once every 3-4 months tops. It just so happened I found the Wright. The searches are not the most user friendly but sometimes you can find a gem.....
48 Leaf's are impossible and I have to agree that PSA 5/6 copies are ridiculously undervalued.
The Nomellini and Bednarik are impossible to find in any grade...I've been looking for 2+ years and when they do show up, no matter the grade, they sell very very well and go exponentially over SMR. I'm not sure buying them raw is the way to go, especially paying over SMR for a given (expected) grade. The cards you're asking about do show up, so unless you can see the other cards in person and are 110% confident they'll be 5/6 quality then I wouldn't pull the trigger.
As for the Wright, I was surprised how tough that card was to find. I did manage to steal a PSA 7 only because a bunch of guys were chasing a PSA 8 ending the same night. I love when that happens.
The other 72 Cowboy I'm having trouble finding is the John Niland. That stupid card doesn't seem to show up very often.
I love seeing everyone's pickups. Keep em coming.
-Josh
Edited to add: I picked up (stole in my opinion) a PSA 9 Munchak rookie this morning for just $39. Considering it's normally a $50-90 card, I was stoked! Lost out on another PSA 9 Lawrence Taylor though...dang it. But I bid low so it was my own fault this time.
There were several Rayfields on eBay about a year ago within a month-six week period but when those changed hands, it really dried up. The Page card was like that, too. Other than that 10 that was in someone's eBay store for a while, I didn't see any of those until the 9 I bought a couple of weeks ago was listed, which is why I jumped on it.
Jason-Do you use vintagecardprices for your sales data or are you just keeping track of it yourself? I am curious if anyone is using that site for football at all and how useful it is.
<< <i>Jason-Do you use vintagecardprices for your sales data or are you just keeping track of it yourself? I am curious if anyone is using that site for football at all and how useful it is. >>
I started using vintagecardprices.com recently, as they have info going back to Nov. 06 for football cards. A couple of things. They don't track BIN sales, and the newest cards they have are 1989. Not tracking anything newer than that. But otherwise, has saved me the time and effort of tracking every single HOF RC.
I started tracking these prices a couple of years ago manually using an excel spreadsheet so I have a little more data, especially for cards that havent sold since Nov. 06.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Alright guys..Been trying to put together a set consisting of the single greatest player from each NFL franchise history. This would be a fluid set, meaning if a new player comes out and becomes that franchise's greatest player, then he would replace the guy listed. I would like some opinions, especially from those of you who are fans of a particular team. I'm not set in stone on these, but have been trying to figure out who belongs the past few days. There are some I just haven't been able to decide on yet, so I list multiple guys there. Let me know what you think and which guys truly belong:
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? Dolphins- Dan Marino Jets- Joe Namath Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady???
Bengals- Anthony Munoz Browns- Jim Brown Ravens- Ray Lewis Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert???
Colts- Johnny Unitas Jaguars- Jimmy Smith Texans- Andre Johnson Titans- Earl Campbell
Broncos- John Elway Chargers- Lance Alworth Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson??? Raiders- Jim Otto
Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly??? Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Giants- Lawrence Taylor Redskins- Sammy Baugh
Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus??? Lions- Barry Sanders Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White??? Vikings- Fran Tarkenton
Bucs- Derrick Brooks Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis??? Panthers- Julius Peppers Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? 49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen??? Seahawks- Steve Largent
Of course the set will consist of the top rookie card of each player. Appreciate any input.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though. Dolphins- Dan Marino Some good names from the Fish, but Dan is the man Jets- Joe Namath Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it?
Bengals- Anthony Munoz Browns- Jim Brown Too bad for Otto Graham Ravens- Ray Lewis Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
Colts- Johnny Unitas Jaguars- Jimmy Smith Texans- Andre Johnson Titans- Earl Campbell
Broncos- John Elway Chargers- Lance Alworth Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson??? Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly??? Some great Cowboys but I'd have to take Emmitt. Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie Giants- Lawrence Taylor Redskins- Sammy Baugh
Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus??? Lions- Barry Sanders Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre Vikings- Fran Tarkenton Fran was the man
Bucs- Derrick Brooks Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis???What no Vick? lol Panthers- Julius Peppers Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???Ugh. Sean Payton? Drew Brees? They got them farther in the playoffs. Gotta take Morten I suppose
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane 49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana. Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen??? Deacon, the master of the head slap and Pam non-stick spray on ther jersey. Seahawks- Steve Largent No other Seahawk even worth mentioning in the same breath as Largent?
Would be an interesting set. Some tough choices to make. And the nice thing is, I think I own most if not all of these. Woo Hoo!
I'd take Jurgensen hands down over Baugh, and I'd also take Maynard over the highly overrated Joe Namath. Montana/Rice? WOW. Talk about a tough decision. I'd ever so slightly lean towards Rice.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Here are some of my issues for the above comments. Please expound on these if you can.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though. ---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith?
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah?
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy. --Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert..
Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose. --Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one..
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie --The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice..
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre --I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though..
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane --Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana. --How do you leave either of these guys off??
Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...
Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP.
Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
First from Raider Nation - I have to vote Marcus Allen , even though Al Davis has wouldn't. I love Howie, but Marcus was the man on those mid 80's team.
Rice over Montana , only because he helped put two QB's in the Hall - Possibly the best player in NFL History
Marshall Faulk slightly over Deacon Jones
I hate not to give the O-line some love, but I have to take Brady over Hannah.
My only vote for Two players Payton and Butkus - how don't you vote for Both?
Saints - ???
Buc - Lee Roy Selmon , at least till Brooks gets inducted. He deserves something for playing for that sad franchise.
Packers - Farve or Lombardi ? Maybe this is where you put your only Coach.
From a KC perspective, Lanier blends in with a group of great defensive players they had at the time. Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Jerry Mays and Johnny Robinson, etc. But your a little more hard pressed to pick off the stellar offensive names of the time. Many competent players but few superstars. In KC, Lanier is a legend, Dawson is a God. Fuzz
Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
got to admitt that i love seeing that its so hard to pick a packer compared to many of the other teams!!
i agree its close between Hutson and Favre...with White right on their heels. Hutson was the man in terms of WR until Rice. He is credited with coming up with most of the routes still used today. Though how much of that is true who knows. I never saw him play.
Favre one of the all time bests as well. He has basically set the bar for QB's to have to have a 30+ TD passing season to have a good year. He is one of the guys that could have played in any era and have been great. I am partial to Favre since I have been able to see him in person and on TV his whole career, nver saw Hutson (born 1973). I must say, going into most games with Favre under center I was thought that we would have a decent shot to win. Not sure you can say that about a WR or DE.
Maybe some teams need a shared spot. Like the Packers and maybe niners with Montana and Rice. Though I think Joe gets the edge for the same reason as Favre, plus he took what nearly 3 different teams to the Super Bowl.
Just my 2 cents.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Agreed on Len Dawson..That pretty much makes up my mind on that one.
Joe Greene/Jack Lambert...undecided Montana/Rice..Undecided
Marcus Allen/Howie Long/Jim Otto...Ive still got to go Otto...I dont want to fall into the trap of believing the more recent players are always better...Can anyone name a better Center thats ever played the game? I can name better DEs and better RBs..Probably 5 of each that are better...Still going Otto at this point..
Marshall Faulk over Deacon Jones??? I dont know if I can buy that..Deacon was the greatest DE of all-time before Reggie White came along..He's still top 2 or 3...Marshall was great, but Deacon is legendary...Still leaning towards Deacon there..
Still not sold on putting Brady in over Hannah...I have to look at what each player has DONE, not what current players MIGHT do..And Hannah is still far more decorated individually...Still undecided though...
Selmon vs. Brooks..LeeRoy was HOFer, but Brooks has been one of the best OLBs ever on a dominant defense...Still going Brooks..
Adding Lombardi is an interesting idea...Definitely the face of the franchise..But the thought was to call this the "Franchise Player" set.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here are some of my issues for the above comments. Please expound on these if you can.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though. ---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith? I see your point...I guess it's tough to argue that one
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah? Never saw Hannah play so I just have to go with the guy with the 4 Cs (no, not cut, color, clarity, carat) Cool, Calm, Collected & Clutch
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy. --Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert.. I just have an affection for Terry. I like Lambert over Greene though. Although its tough to argue with a guy who has a nickname of "Mean". I didn't really see either of them play, but of the highlights I've seen, Lambert was a madman. Pain didn't seem to affect him.
Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose. --Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one.. Again, center isn't a sexy position and he's way before my time. I'd have to defer to others on this one. I do like the Marcus Allen comment though. He crossed my mind.
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie --The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice.. Bednarik, again, way before my time. Maybe an eagles fan can comment like Fuzz did about the Chiefs.
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre --I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though.. Being a Vikings fan, and therefore a die hard Packer hater. Sorry jradke , I woud still have to go with Favre. Hutson is one of the all time greats but as much as I have to despise the Packers, I can't think of any team, any other time that I've watched and thought "they've still got a chance" no matter how much time is left. Favre just exudes confidence. For all his flaws and mistakes, he's still one of the best ever IMO. I love watching the guy, I just wish he played for someone other than GB. lol
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane --Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana. --How do you leave either of these guys off??
Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...
Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP. I'm not a big Namath fan myself, but tought o argue.
Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.
Jason
Hometown affinity is sometimes a little different than national recognition. Being a Vikings fan, Robert Smith, Randy Moss (even still) and Carter, as well as Tark and Kapp are hometown heroes. I would argue that Carter and Moss would draw a much bigger crowd at a signing or personal appearance than Tarkenton would
..and what about the Graham v. Brown argument? I know, I know...Jim Brown was great...I get it. But Otto Graham was about as dominant as a QB ever was.
I love your comments about Favre!!! Coming from a guy that likes a team that wears purple!! Had to get that out, sorry.
But it speaks volumes of the type of player that Favre is. That fans even of bitter rivals understand what type of player he is and what he could always do to any team at any time. He is the type that if you give him an inch it looks like a mile to him and he will take it. Yes sometimes those are INTS but many times more times they have been huge plays that changed the game.
The only player if ever thought was a treat to watch was with one of our rivals as well. Payton, that is the only reason that I ever rooted for the bears in super bowl XXI. Then ditka doesnt give him the ball for a TD, what an A**.
Moss almost fit into that group as well but then started to slide if with his attitidue.
jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I have to toss Barry Sanders into that "bitter rival" conversation as well. Payton, is...well...Payton. Not much else to say there. I have season tix to the Queens (belive me, it was a tough pill to swallow this year, we're gonna suck. But I'm gonna cheer anyway).
I couldn't agree more with your comments. Well, aside from the "wears purple remark".
To me, a great player is a great player, No matter the era, the team or the disdain you have for your rivals. It's tough to swallow when they do something extraordinary to your team, but then you have to go back and look at it in amazement. Usually years later, when the pain has subsided.
I'll just comment on my team, the Steelers. I'd have to take Joe Greene. He was an absolute monster from the games/footage I've seen. Lambert isn't a slouch, but I'd take Greene.
Bednarik was Jack Lambert...But meaner and with a smaller rule book...If you've never watched him play, IMO he's the most violent HOF caliber player to ever wear an NFL uniform. Its a must see..The guy was talking peoples heads off every game..Plus he played Offense AND defense for many years...
Leaning a little heavier towards Favre..Especially considering his consecutive games streak and overall numbers. I wish he had more Championship rings would make it a bit easier...And like I said, I don't want to forget about what the older players did way back..Its too easy to call current or recent players the greatest because they are in the forefront. It would be a travesty to forget how great the old timers really were. I havent seen alot on Hutson, as I dont believe a whole lot exists. But what I have seen he was straight up torching guys like no one had ever witnessed. Favre was great, but others were doing similar things at the time.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'll just comment on my team, the Steelers. I'd have to take Joe Greene. He was an absolute monster from the games/footage I've seen. Lambert isn't a slouch, but I'd take Greene. >>
Agreed...I've never before and havent since seen anyone throw offensive linemen (usually 2 at a time) around like Mean Joe...He looked like he was 6-10, 400 lbs. when he was on the field..Unstoppable...Anyone that hasn't seen it, you are really missing out..You will be in awe...
Lambert was evil, wicked, mean and nasty and had a serious nose for the ball...But was he as dominant a force as Mean Joe??
Going to be a tough call...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
For the older players, you could simply take the highest ranked player from each team from the Sporting News top 100 of all time. The teams involving recent players would have to be added/discussed but this is a good tool.
1. Jim Brown 2. Jerry Rice 3. Joe Montana 4. Lawrence Taylor 5. Johnny Unitas 6. Don Hutson 7. Otto Graham 8. Walter Payton 9. Dick Butkus 10. Bob Lilly
11. Sammy Baugh 12. Barry Sanders 13. Deacon Jones 14. Joe Greene 15. Gino Marchetti 16. John Elway 17. Anthony Munoz 18. Ray Nitschke 19. Night Train Lane 20. John Hannah
21. Gale Sayers 22. Reggie White 23. Ronnie Lott 24. Jim Parker 25. Merlin Olsen 26. O.J. Simpson 27. Dan Marino 28. Forrest Gregg 29. Roger Staubach 30. Jack Lambert
31. Lance Alworth 32. Marion Motley 33. Earl Campbell 34. Alan Page 35. Bronko Nagurski 36. Mel Blount 37. Deion Sanders 38. Eric Dickerson 39. Sid Luckman 40. Raymond Berry
41. Bart Starr 42. Willie Lanier 43. Larry Wilson 44. Terry Bradshaw 45. Herb Adderley 46. Steve Largent 47. Jack Ham 48. John Mackey 49. Bill George 50. Willie Brown
51. Randy White 52. Bobby Layne 53. Tony Dorsett 54. Chuck Bednarik 55. Art Shell 56. Mike Singletary 57. Roosevelt Brown 58. Bruce Smith 59. Fran Tarkenton 60. Paul Warfield
61. Ken Houston 62. Gene Upshaw 63. Steve Young 64. Ted Hendricks 65. Joe Schmidt 66. Bobby Bell 67. Buck Buchanan 68. Emmitt Smith 69. Willie Davis 70. Emlen Tunnell
71. Lenny Moore 72. Marcus Allen 73. Kellen Winslow 74. Mel Hein 75. Mike Webster 76. Sam Huff 77. Steve Van Buren 78. Jim Otto 79. Larry Little 80. Red Grange
81. Darrell Green 82. Brett Favre 83. Franco Harris 84. Dwight Stephenson 85. Charley Taylor 86. Jack Christiansen 87. Rod Woodson 88. Jim Thorpe 89. Elroy Hirsch 90. Mike Ditka
91. Art Monk 92. Dan Fouts 93. Mike Haynes 94. Fred Biletnikoff 95. Troy Aikman 96. Joe Namath 97. Lem Barney 98. George Blanda 99. Lou Groza 100. Charlie Joiner
I think if you're including him (played only 5 years with Atlanta), you have to include players like Andre Rison, Terrance Mathis, Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, etc. I can't, for the life of me, think of any all time great OLs or defensive players (other than Sanders) from the Falcons.
Dave, Ive seen that list before..There are like 20 of them that profess to rank all the greats. Most are pretty much in line and many of these match up to exactly what I have.
The thing those lists dont differentiate is that these are FRANCHISE players. Deion only played 5 years for the Falcons...Went to 3 Pro Bowls as a Falcon...Went to more Pro Bowls and got a ring as a Cowboy..This was the problem with Reggie White...He split his career between 2 teams...NightTrain Lane is another..Split between Cards and Lions...I want the best player for THAT franchise in its history...
That Sporting news list doesnt really help with Rice/Montana or Payton/Butkus..They are ranked side-by-side..lol
The other issue is that this list was done in 1999...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Favre did go to three straight NFC (almost four if they would have ruled Rice's fumble a fumble), winning two of them. Two super bowls, with the Defense with Reggie not be able to stop Davis, otherwise Favre would have two plus a superbowl MVP. Not too mention he was close to the MVP from XXXI if it wasnt for the TD return from Howard. He had 2 passing TD's and one rushing TD. 2005 is the only losing season under his belt as a starter.
I will have to dig up the numbers again on TD passes by season (Favre, Marino, Manning, Elway, Young, Montana) but some of the numbers are more surprising that most would think. Of all of Favre's seasons he only had 3 if i recall that were under 20. His first where he only played 13 games I think (18 or 19 TD's), 2005 and Sherman's first year as coach (all were 18-19). I think he has about 8 30+ TD seasons which is more than any of the others I mentioned above. I will post the numbers again.
But by picking one player someone will always be left behind.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
A psa 7 just sold for close to $300 IIRC. So I wouldn't think $550 is out of line for a bright, well centered PSA 8. Jason can probably give you actual sales figures for an 8 though.
Greg, $550 is fair for an ugly off centered one..lol
Send that seller my way if you don't buy it! I need an 8...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jurgensen also lead the league in passing yards 5 TIMES, and finished second once. Pretty darn dominant. Despite playing in 53 more games than Baugh (that's 3 1/4 full seasons by today's standards), he threw 24 fewer picks.
Now I know these guys obviously played in completely different eras. That makes comparing them difficult - especially since the NFL was much more about the run in Baugh's day. But I still give the nod to Jurgensen.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Baugh..Top 5 in Passing yardage 11 times...Top 5 in TD passes 9 times...
Jurgensen...Top 5 passing yardage 6 times...Tops 5 TD passes 7 times...And if you want to factor in the AFL players, this would be much less.
Baugh retired as the NFL All-time leader in passing yardage, completion pct, passing attempts, passing completions, and touchdown passes. Not to mention lowest career INT PCT...Yes he threw alot of INTs by todays standards, but for his day he threw the least, he was the greatest QB in early football history.
Jurgensen was good, very under-rated in fact. But he wasn't Slingin Sammy.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm not knocking the idea at all but am I the only one feeling set registry overkill when it comes to these type sets? Right now besides the HOF Rookie set, we have
All time QB's, RB's, WR's 75th anniversary team Heisman Winners Super Bowl MVP's 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's teams of the decade All time team sets HOF Bears, HOF Browns
All these set include pretty much the same cards with some exceptions. I could understand doing a set of your favorite team that may not include the non-HOF worthy players, but, to me, seems like overkill. For example, every card within the 75th anniversary team (except white shoes johnson), will be inshrined in Canton eventually and is, essentially, a smaller version of the HOF RC set. Of the list being made of the best from each team only 3-4 are not strong HOF candiates yet. (maybe) Those would be Andre Johnson, Jimmy Smith, Julius Peppers, and possibly the Falcons representative. However, since the players would change when a "better" player comes along, eventually all be be HOF'ers, creating another smaller HOF RC set.
I have registered some of the other sets just because I have most of the needed cards (all time position sets), but I would have to draw the line somewhere...
Just my simple opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
I agree that many of these sets are somewhat redundant.
But they are all voluntary..Basically just gives you plenty of options on what you'd like to collect. Not everyone collects the entire HOF RC set. Its kinda like having the 1972 Topps Oakland Raiders set...Its just a smaller version of the much bigger set. These are just in different formats, different ideas. For me, the #1 priority is the NFL HOF RC set, always has been always will be. But the smaller sets are fun when you can put together a collection of varying formats or lists. At least they are to me anyway. So I don't think it is overkill as long as the idea of the set is different and original.
This particular set that I am proposing would be different in that only one player could be listed for each team. Meaning cards can and will be deleted via vote if/when new players become worthy.
Nothing set in stone, just something Ive been kicking around..If everyone hates the idea, I would gladly nix it and just make my own set and put it on the Collectors Showcase or something...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm not telling you to nix it, I am just giving my opinion. I love these HOF RC's, and if this set gets listed, I may list mine. In fact, I didnt realize that I have most of the 75th anniv team set and have never registered it. Maybe I will..
It seems that most of us here are in the same positions, give or take a few with all these periferial sets. If Fight4oldDC decided to put all his cards in the other sets, he would most likely be #1 in any one of them. I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..) LOL...
For me, the battle is with my own collecting standards. Its fun to see how I stack up against some of the other great collections out there and its the best place for tracking what I have and seeing my cards no matter where I am in the world. But I have no illusions of grandeur or that I will ever have the type of money it takes to hang with the big dogs...I enjoy viewing their sets as well, so it doesnt bother me to be #5 or #20...But that's just me...
I always have thought the more collector's on these sets the better...The competition drives up prices and makes all of our collections more valuable.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..) LOL...
Dave >>
LOL. I hear you there! I move up one spot once in a while and I'm there for about a day. And by the way, it's you that keeps passing me. I've got some work to do now though. You've really put some distance between us now.
Oh and Jason, if the collectors disappeared from some of these sets, all of our collections values would drop. So the more collectors, the better indeed.
I agree with the redundancy with some of these sets. Look at the baseball runs of the decades 50's, 60's. They are just all the topps sets put together. But then again all that one gets is a piece of paper. I got one for a 3 card set.
Maybe instead of making this set a RC card set how about the last card of the player with the team that he is entered in the set with. that way you get to see almost of his stats with that team and why he is great. this way it would be a totally new set not a rehash, plus provide some good reasons why each player was chosen. just a thought
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Comments
You are an amazing resource to have while building this set. By the way, I just picked up a nice PSA 8 Maynard rc for $120 over the weekend from Mikescardcloset...which I didn't think was a bad price as the card is beautifully centered.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight.
<< <i>Greg- PSA 5's and 6's on 48 Leaf are absolute bargains IMO right now. You should be able to find them graded for the same price as raw.
I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight. >>
Frank - I will buy a few NFL HOF PSA 5's and 6's if you have any.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>I'll check when I get home tonight. >>
I've heard that one before Frank.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
If you look at the pop report there are 2 card #54 listed with the "see varieties" having 51 graded.
total
54 CHUCK BEDNARIK YELLOW BACKGROUND 0 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 6
54 SEE VARIETIES 2 15 11 7 5 0 0 2 0 0 51
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
48 Leaf is absolutely the most undervalued football set in existence..The high grade raw stuff just isn't out there...PSA 7 and up is near impossible.
Since June 2003 when I started tracking the pops, less than 20 PSA 7 or higher 1948 Leaf HOF RCs have been graded...And 2 of those were mine (a Doak Walker that I crossed from GAI which was the first PSA 7 Walker graded since 2003, plus a PSA 7 Waterfield I crossed from SGC)...
Thats less than five PSA 7 or higher new cards per year over the last 4 years..And we are talking 12 different HOFers here..Not EACH guy, TOTAL for all...
They are amazingly scarce...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Yes you have Andy, but through my sorting I found quite a few of these so I know where they are
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
The Nomellini and Bednarik are impossible to find in any grade...I've been looking for 2+ years and when they do show up, no matter the grade, they sell very very well and go exponentially over SMR. I'm not sure buying them raw is the way to go, especially paying over SMR for a given (expected) grade. The cards you're asking about do show up, so unless you can see the other cards in person and are 110% confident they'll be 5/6 quality then I wouldn't pull the trigger.
As for the Wright, I was surprised how tough that card was to find. I did manage to steal a PSA 7 only because a bunch of guys were chasing a PSA 8 ending the same night. I love when that happens.
The other 72 Cowboy I'm having trouble finding is the John Niland. That stupid card doesn't seem to show up very often.
I love seeing everyone's pickups. Keep em coming.
-Josh
Edited to add: I picked up (stole in my opinion) a PSA 9 Munchak rookie this morning for just $39. Considering it's normally a $50-90 card, I was stoked! Lost out on another PSA 9 Lawrence Taylor though...dang it. But I bid low so it was my own fault this time.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>Jason-Do you use vintagecardprices for your sales data or are you just keeping track of it yourself? I am curious if anyone is using that site for football at all and how useful it is. >>
I started using vintagecardprices.com recently, as they have info going back to Nov. 06 for football cards. A couple of things. They don't track BIN sales, and the newest cards they have are 1989. Not tracking anything newer than that. But otherwise, has saved me the time and effort of tracking every single HOF RC.
I started tracking these prices a couple of years ago manually using an excel spreadsheet so I have a little more data, especially for cards that havent sold since Nov. 06.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson???
Dolphins- Dan Marino
Jets- Joe Namath
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady???
Bengals- Anthony Munoz
Browns- Jim Brown
Ravens- Ray Lewis
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert???
Colts- Johnny Unitas
Jaguars- Jimmy Smith
Texans- Andre Johnson
Titans- Earl Campbell
Broncos- John Elway
Chargers- Lance Alworth
Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson???
Raiders- Jim Otto
Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly???
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White???
Giants- Lawrence Taylor
Redskins- Sammy Baugh
Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus???
Lions- Barry Sanders
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???
Vikings- Fran Tarkenton
Bucs- Derrick Brooks
Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis???
Panthers- Julius Peppers
Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane???
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana???
Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen???
Seahawks- Steve Largent
Of course the set will consist of the top rookie card of each player. Appreciate any input.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
Dolphins- Dan Marino Some good names from the Fish, but Dan is the man
Jets- Joe Namath
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it?
Bengals- Anthony Munoz
Browns- Jim Brown Too bad for Otto Graham
Ravens- Ray Lewis
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
Colts- Johnny Unitas
Jaguars- Jimmy Smith
Texans- Andre Johnson
Titans- Earl Campbell
Broncos- John Elway
Chargers- Lance Alworth
Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson???
Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly??? Some great Cowboys but I'd have to take Emmitt.
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
Giants- Lawrence Taylor
Redskins- Sammy Baugh
Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus???
Lions- Barry Sanders
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
Vikings- Fran Tarkenton Fran was the man
Bucs- Derrick Brooks
Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis???What no Vick? lol
Panthers- Julius Peppers
Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???Ugh. Sean Payton? Drew Brees? They got them farther in the playoffs. Gotta take Morten I suppose
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen??? Deacon, the master of the head slap and Pam non-stick spray on ther jersey.
Seahawks- Steve Largent No other Seahawk even worth mentioning in the same breath as Largent?
Would be an interesting set. Some tough choices to make. And the nice thing is, I think I own most if not all of these.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith?
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah?
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
--Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert..
Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
--Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one..
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
--The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice..
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
--I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though..
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
--Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
--How do you leave either of these guys off??
Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...
Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP.
Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
First from Raider Nation - I have to vote Marcus Allen , even though Al Davis has wouldn't. I love Howie, but Marcus was the man on those mid 80's team.
Rice over Montana , only because he helped put two QB's in the Hall - Possibly the best player in NFL History
Marshall Faulk slightly over Deacon Jones
I hate not to give the O-line some love, but I have to take Brady over Hannah.
My only vote for Two players Payton and Butkus - how don't you vote for Both?
Saints - ???
Buc - Lee Roy Selmon , at least till Brooks gets inducted. He deserves something for playing for that sad franchise.
Packers - Farve or Lombardi ? Maybe this is where you put your only Coach.
Steelers - Joe Greene
Buck Buchanan, Jerry Mays and Johnny Robinson, etc. But your a little more hard pressed to pick off the stellar offensive names of the time. Many competent players but few superstars.
In KC, Lanier is a legend, Dawson is a God.
Fuzz
i agree its close between Hutson and Favre...with White right on their heels. Hutson was the man in terms of WR until Rice. He is credited with coming up with most of the routes still used today. Though how much of that is true who knows. I never saw him play.
Favre one of the all time bests as well. He has basically set the bar for QB's to have to have a 30+ TD passing season to have a good year. He is one of the guys that could have played in any era and have been great. I am partial to Favre since I have been able to see him in person and on TV his whole career, nver saw Hutson (born 1973). I must say, going into most games with Favre under center I was thought that we would have a decent shot to win. Not sure you can say that about a WR or DE.
Maybe some teams need a shared spot. Like the Packers and maybe niners with Montana and Rice. Though I think Joe gets the edge for the same reason as Favre, plus he took what nearly 3 different teams to the Super Bowl.
Just my 2 cents.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Agreed on Len Dawson..That pretty much makes up my mind on that one.
Joe Greene/Jack Lambert...undecided
Montana/Rice..Undecided
Marcus Allen/Howie Long/Jim Otto...Ive still got to go Otto...I dont want to fall into the trap of believing the more recent players are always better...Can anyone name a better Center thats ever played the game? I can name better DEs and better RBs..Probably 5 of each that are better...Still going Otto at this point..
Marshall Faulk over Deacon Jones??? I dont know if I can buy that..Deacon was the greatest DE of all-time before Reggie White came along..He's still top 2 or 3...Marshall was great, but Deacon is legendary...Still leaning towards Deacon there..
Still not sold on putting Brady in over Hannah...I have to look at what each player has DONE, not what current players MIGHT do..And Hannah is still far more decorated individually...Still undecided though...
Selmon vs. Brooks..LeeRoy was HOFer, but Brooks has been one of the best OLBs ever on a dominant defense...Still going Brooks..
Adding Lombardi is an interesting idea...Definitely the face of the franchise..But the thought was to call this the "Franchise Player" set.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith?
I see your point...I guess it's tough to argue that one
Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah?
Never saw Hannah play so I just have to go with the guy with the 4 Cs (no, not cut, color, clarity, carat) Cool, Calm, Collected & Clutch
Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
--Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert..
I just have an affection for Terry. I like Lambert over Greene though. Although its tough to argue with a guy who has a nickname of "Mean". I didn't really see either of them play, but of the highlights I've seen, Lambert was a madman. Pain didn't seem to affect him.
Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
--Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one..
Again, center isn't a sexy position and he's way before my time. I'd have to defer to others on this one. I do like the Marcus Allen comment though. He crossed my mind.
Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
--The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice..
Bednarik, again, way before my time. Maybe an eagles fan can comment like Fuzz did about the Chiefs.
Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
--I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though..
Being a Vikings fan, and therefore a die hard Packer hater. Sorry jradke
Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
--Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..
49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
--How do you leave either of these guys off??
Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...
Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP.
I'm not a big Namath fan myself, but tought o argue.
Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.
Jason
Hometown affinity is sometimes a little different than national recognition. Being a Vikings fan, Robert Smith, Randy Moss (even still) and Carter, as well as Tark and Kapp are hometown heroes. I would argue that Carter and Moss would draw a much bigger crowd at a signing or personal appearance than Tarkenton would
..and what about the Graham v. Brown argument? I know, I know...Jim Brown was great...I get it. But Otto Graham was about as dominant as a QB ever was.
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I love your comments about Favre!!! Coming from a guy that likes a team that wears purple!! Had to get that out, sorry.
But it speaks volumes of the type of player that Favre is. That fans even of bitter rivals understand what type of player he is and what he could always do to any team at any time. He is the type that if you give him an inch it looks like a mile to him and he will take it. Yes sometimes those are INTS but many times more times they have been huge plays that changed the game.
The only player if ever thought was a treat to watch was with one of our rivals as well. Payton, that is the only reason that I ever rooted for the bears in super bowl XXI. Then ditka doesnt give him the ball for a TD, what an A**.
Moss almost fit into that group as well but then started to slide if with his attitidue.
jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
I couldn't agree more with your comments. Well, aside from the "wears purple remark".
To me, a great player is a great player, No matter the era, the team or the disdain you have for your rivals. It's tough to swallow when they do something extraordinary to your team, but then you have to go back and look at it in amazement. Usually years later, when the pain has subsided.
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Leaning a little heavier towards Favre..Especially considering his consecutive games streak and overall numbers. I wish he had more Championship rings would make it a bit easier...And like I said, I don't want to forget about what the older players did way back..Its too easy to call current or recent players the greatest because they are in the forefront. It would be a travesty to forget how great the old timers really were. I havent seen alot on Hutson, as I dont believe a whole lot exists. But what I have seen he was straight up torching guys like no one had ever witnessed. Favre was great, but others were doing similar things at the time.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'll just comment on my team, the Steelers. I'd have to take Joe Greene. He was an absolute monster from the games/footage I've seen. Lambert isn't a slouch, but I'd take Greene. >>
Agreed...I've never before and havent since seen anyone throw offensive linemen (usually 2 at a time) around like Mean Joe...He looked like he was 6-10, 400 lbs. when he was on the field..Unstoppable...Anyone that hasn't seen it, you are really missing out..You will be in awe...
Lambert was evil, wicked, mean and nasty and had a serious nose for the ball...But was he as dominant a force as Mean Joe??
Going to be a tough call...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here is the link
The complete list
1. Jim Brown
2. Jerry Rice
3. Joe Montana
4. Lawrence Taylor
5. Johnny Unitas
6. Don Hutson
7. Otto Graham
8. Walter Payton
9. Dick Butkus
10. Bob Lilly
11. Sammy Baugh
12. Barry Sanders
13. Deacon Jones
14. Joe Greene
15. Gino Marchetti
16. John Elway
17. Anthony Munoz
18. Ray Nitschke
19. Night Train Lane
20. John Hannah
21. Gale Sayers
22. Reggie White
23. Ronnie Lott
24. Jim Parker
25. Merlin Olsen
26. O.J. Simpson
27. Dan Marino
28. Forrest Gregg
29. Roger Staubach
30. Jack Lambert
31. Lance Alworth
32. Marion Motley
33. Earl Campbell
34. Alan Page
35. Bronko Nagurski
36. Mel Blount
37. Deion Sanders
38. Eric Dickerson
39. Sid Luckman
40. Raymond Berry
41. Bart Starr
42. Willie Lanier
43. Larry Wilson
44. Terry Bradshaw
45. Herb Adderley
46. Steve Largent
47. Jack Ham
48. John Mackey
49. Bill George
50. Willie Brown
51. Randy White
52. Bobby Layne
53. Tony Dorsett
54. Chuck Bednarik
55. Art Shell
56. Mike Singletary
57. Roosevelt Brown
58. Bruce Smith
59. Fran Tarkenton
60. Paul Warfield
61. Ken Houston
62. Gene Upshaw
63. Steve Young
64. Ted Hendricks
65. Joe Schmidt
66. Bobby Bell
67. Buck Buchanan
68. Emmitt Smith
69. Willie Davis
70. Emlen Tunnell
71. Lenny Moore
72. Marcus Allen
73. Kellen Winslow
74. Mel Hein
75. Mike Webster
76. Sam Huff
77. Steve Van Buren
78. Jim Otto
79. Larry Little
80. Red Grange
81. Darrell Green
82. Brett Favre
83. Franco Harris
84. Dwight Stephenson
85. Charley Taylor
86. Jack Christiansen
87. Rod Woodson
88. Jim Thorpe
89. Elroy Hirsch
90. Mike Ditka
91. Art Monk
92. Dan Fouts
93. Mike Haynes
94. Fred Biletnikoff
95. Troy Aikman
96. Joe Namath
97. Lem Barney
98. George Blanda
99. Lou Groza
100. Charlie Joiner
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>How bout Deion for Falcons?? >>
I think if you're including him (played only 5 years with Atlanta), you have to include players like Andre Rison, Terrance Mathis, Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, etc. I can't, for the life of me, think of any all time great OLs or defensive players (other than Sanders) from the Falcons.
The thing those lists dont differentiate is that these are FRANCHISE players. Deion only played 5 years for the Falcons...Went to 3 Pro Bowls as a Falcon...Went to more Pro Bowls and got a ring as a Cowboy..This was the problem with Reggie White...He split his career between 2 teams...NightTrain Lane is another..Split between Cards and Lions...I want the best player for THAT franchise in its history...
That Sporting news list doesnt really help with Rice/Montana or Payton/Butkus..They are ranked side-by-side..lol
The other issue is that this list was done in 1999...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I couldnt believe that Favre was ranked all the way down at the bottom. Surely he would be much higher if done today...
dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
*ducks*
I will have to dig up the numbers again on TD passes by season (Favre, Marino, Manning, Elway, Young, Montana) but some of the numbers are more surprising that most would think. Of all of Favre's seasons he only had 3 if i recall that were under 20. His first where he only played 13 games I think (18 or 19 TD's), 2005 and Sherman's first year as coach (all were 18-19). I think he has about 8 30+ TD seasons which is more than any of the others I mentioned above. I will post the numbers again.
But by picking one player someone will always be left behind.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Is $550 dlvd fair for a centered PSA 8 Motley rc?
Regards,
Greg M.
edited to say that the $550 is for a PSA 7...not PSA 8!! That definately answers my question about whether it's a good deal.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>Jason et al...
Is $550 dlvd fair for a centered PSA 8 Motley rc?
Regards,
Greg M. >>
Greg, $550 is fair for an ugly off centered one..lol
Send that seller my way if you don't buy it! I need an 8...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Baugh - 165 G, 187 TDs, 203 INTs
Jurgensen - 218 G, 255 TDs, 189 INTs
Jurgensen also lead the league in passing yards 5 TIMES, and finished second once. Pretty darn dominant. Despite playing in 53 more games than Baugh (that's 3 1/4 full seasons by today's standards), he threw 24 fewer picks.
Now I know these guys obviously played in completely different eras. That makes comparing them difficult - especially since the NFL was much more about the run in Baugh's day. But I still give the nod to Jurgensen.
Jurgensen...Top 5 passing yardage 6 times...Tops 5 TD passes 7 times...And if you want to factor in the AFL players, this would be much less.
Baugh retired as the NFL All-time leader in passing yardage, completion pct, passing attempts, passing completions, and touchdown passes. Not to mention lowest career INT PCT...Yes he threw alot of INTs by todays standards, but for his day he threw the least, he was the greatest QB in early football history.
Jurgensen was good, very under-rated in fact. But he wasn't Slingin Sammy.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
All time QB's, RB's, WR's
75th anniversary team
Heisman Winners
Super Bowl MVP's
50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's teams of the decade
All time team sets
HOF Bears, HOF Browns
All these set include pretty much the same cards with some exceptions. I could understand doing a set of your favorite team that may not include the non-HOF worthy players, but, to me, seems like overkill. For example, every card within the 75th anniversary team (except white shoes johnson), will be inshrined in Canton eventually and is, essentially, a smaller version of the HOF RC set. Of the list being made of the best from each team only 3-4 are not strong HOF candiates yet. (maybe) Those would be Andre Johnson, Jimmy Smith, Julius Peppers, and possibly the Falcons representative. However, since the players would change when a "better" player comes along, eventually all be be HOF'ers, creating another smaller HOF RC set.
I have registered some of the other sets just because I have most of the needed cards (all time position sets), but I would have to draw the line somewhere...
Just my simple opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
But they are all voluntary..Basically just gives you plenty of options on what you'd like to collect. Not everyone collects the entire HOF RC set. Its kinda like having the 1972 Topps Oakland Raiders set...Its just a smaller version of the much bigger set. These are just in different formats, different ideas. For me, the #1 priority is the NFL HOF RC set, always has been always will be. But the smaller sets are fun when you can put together a collection of varying formats or lists. At least they are to me anyway. So I don't think it is overkill as long as the idea of the set is different and original.
This particular set that I am proposing would be different in that only one player could be listed for each team. Meaning cards can and will be deleted via vote if/when new players become worthy.
Nothing set in stone, just something Ive been kicking around..If everyone hates the idea, I would gladly nix it and just make my own set and put it on the Collectors Showcase or something...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It seems that most of us here are in the same positions, give or take a few with all these periferial sets. If Fight4oldDC decided to put all his cards in the other sets, he would most likely be #1 in any one of them. I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
I always have thought the more collector's on these sets the better...The competition drives up prices and makes all of our collections more valuable.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..
Dave >>
LOL. I hear you there! I move up one spot once in a while and I'm there for about a day. And by the way, it's you that keeps passing me.
Oh and Jason, if the collectors disappeared from some of these sets, all of our collections values would drop. So the more collectors, the better indeed.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
Maybe instead of making this set a RC card set how about the last card of the player with the team that he is entered in the set with. that way you get to see almost of his stats with that team and why he is great. this way it would be a totally new set not a rehash, plus provide some good reasons why each player was chosen. just a thought
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's