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Official Football HOF Rookies Thread**********************************************

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  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Jason. I was looking through David Levin's site - and he has quite a few nice older cards but many are priced a grade above what he's grading his cards at (i.e. raw EX are being priced b/t a PSA 5 and PSA 6). I counter-offered $140 dlvd but that's as high as I'll go.

    You are an amazing resource to have while building this set. By the way, I just picked up a nice PSA 8 Maynard rc for $120 over the weekend from Mikescardcloset...which I didn't think was a bad price as the card is beautifully centered.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • Greg- PSA 5's and 6's on 48 Leaf are absolute bargains IMO right now. You should be able to find them graded for the same price as raw.
    I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Greg- PSA 5's and 6's on 48 Leaf are absolute bargains IMO right now. You should be able to find them graded for the same price as raw.
    I might even have a few. I'll check when I get home tonight. >>



    Frank - I will buy a few NFL HOF PSA 5's and 6's if you have any.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll check when I get home tonight. >>



    I've heard that one before Frank. image
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Also, why is the 1948 Bednarik so hard to find. There are only 6 graded with none graded higher than a PSA 6. There seem to be quite a few cards from the 1948 that are tough to find but I can't believe that a HOF rc has only 6 graded copies. Is it that rare or are there a lot raw that just haven't been graded yet?

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    That because PSA recently began putting the variety yellow background on the flip separating them from the ones previously graded.

    If you look at the pop report there are 2 card #54 listed with the "see varieties" having 51 graded.

    total

    54 CHUCK BEDNARIK YELLOW BACKGROUND 0 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 6
    54 SEE VARIETIES 2 15 11 7 5 0 0 2 0 0 51

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Dave is correct..The pops are a little higher when you add all the variations together. But the Nomellini and Bednarik are High numbered (from 50-98) and were supposedly produced in lower quantities than the early series 1-49...Those cards are particularly hard to find in high grade..I sold my PSA 6 Bednarik about a year and a half ago for over 3K...My PSA 7 Luckman sold for 5 figures last year this time..Its tough in high grade because its card #1.

    48 Leaf is absolutely the most undervalued football set in existence..The high grade raw stuff just isn't out there...PSA 7 and up is near impossible.

    Since June 2003 when I started tracking the pops, less than 20 PSA 7 or higher 1948 Leaf HOF RCs have been graded...And 2 of those were mine (a Doak Walker that I crossed from GAI which was the first PSA 7 Walker graded since 2003, plus a PSA 7 Waterfield I crossed from SGC)...

    Thats less than five PSA 7 or higher new cards per year over the last 4 years..And we are talking 12 different HOFers here..Not EACH guy, TOTAL for all...

    They are amazingly scarce...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • I've heard that one before Frank.

    Yes you have Andy, but through my sorting I found quite a few of these so I know where they areimage
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Finally landed a toughie..... Got it off Naxcom of all places. Been looking for this one since last year. Very few on Ebay. Poor scan is courtesy of Naxcom....


    image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭
    That's a nice looking 7 Dave. Congrats. I was lucky enough to pick up a 9 recently. Very tough card. You don't even see raw Wright rookies on eBay these days - in any condition.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I know, Ive been watchin. It just so happens that all my 70-76 cards are PSA 7's, so it fits like a glove......image

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭
    Had any other good buys on Naxcom?
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    The only other thing I've ever bought off Naxcom were VIP passes to the last 2 nationals. I search for tough cards on there maybe once every 3-4 months tops. It just so happened I found the Wright. The searches are not the most user friendly but sometimes you can find a gem.....

    Dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    48 Leaf's are impossible and I have to agree that PSA 5/6 copies are ridiculously undervalued.

    The Nomellini and Bednarik are impossible to find in any grade...I've been looking for 2+ years and when they do show up, no matter the grade, they sell very very well and go exponentially over SMR. I'm not sure buying them raw is the way to go, especially paying over SMR for a given (expected) grade. The cards you're asking about do show up, so unless you can see the other cards in person and are 110% confident they'll be 5/6 quality then I wouldn't pull the trigger.

    As for the Wright, I was surprised how tough that card was to find. I did manage to steal a PSA 7 only because a bunch of guys were chasing a PSA 8 ending the same night. I love when that happens. image

    The other 72 Cowboy I'm having trouble finding is the John Niland. That stupid card doesn't seem to show up very often.

    I love seeing everyone's pickups. Keep em coming.

    -Josh

    Edited to add: I picked up (stole in my opinion) a PSA 9 Munchak rookie this morning for just $39. Considering it's normally a $50-90 card, I was stoked! Lost out on another PSA 9 Lawrence Taylor though...dang it. But I bid low so it was my own fault this time.
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭
    There were several Rayfields on eBay about a year ago within a month-six week period but when those changed hands, it really dried up. The Page card was like that, too. Other than that 10 that was in someone's eBay store for a while, I didn't see any of those until the 9 I bought a couple of weeks ago was listed, which is why I jumped on it.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Jason-Do you use vintagecardprices for your sales data or are you just keeping track of it yourself? I am curious if anyone is using that site for football at all and how useful it is.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jason-Do you use vintagecardprices for your sales data or are you just keeping track of it yourself? I am curious if anyone is using that site for football at all and how useful it is. >>



    I started using vintagecardprices.com recently, as they have info going back to Nov. 06 for football cards. A couple of things. They don't track BIN sales, and the newest cards they have are 1989. Not tracking anything newer than that. But otherwise, has saved me the time and effort of tracking every single HOF RC.

    I started tracking these prices a couple of years ago manually using an excel spreadsheet so I have a little more data, especially for cards that havent sold since Nov. 06.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Alright guys..Been trying to put together a set consisting of the single greatest player from each NFL franchise history. This would be a fluid set, meaning if a new player comes out and becomes that franchise's greatest player, then he would replace the guy listed. I would like some opinions, especially from those of you who are fans of a particular team. I'm not set in stone on these, but have been trying to figure out who belongs the past few days. There are some I just haven't been able to decide on yet, so I list multiple guys there. Let me know what you think and which guys truly belong:

    Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson???
    Dolphins- Dan Marino
    Jets- Joe Namath
    Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady???

    Bengals- Anthony Munoz
    Browns- Jim Brown
    Ravens- Ray Lewis
    Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert???

    Colts- Johnny Unitas
    Jaguars- Jimmy Smith
    Texans- Andre Johnson
    Titans- Earl Campbell

    Broncos- John Elway
    Chargers- Lance Alworth
    Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson???
    Raiders- Jim Otto

    Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly???
    Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White???
    Giants- Lawrence Taylor
    Redskins- Sammy Baugh

    Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus???
    Lions- Barry Sanders
    Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???
    Vikings- Fran Tarkenton

    Bucs- Derrick Brooks
    Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis???
    Panthers- Julius Peppers
    Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???

    Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane???
    49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana???
    Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen???
    Seahawks- Steve Largent

    Of course the set will consist of the top rookie card of each player. Appreciate any input.

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Wow. Very interesting.

    Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
    Dolphins- Dan Marino Some good names from the Fish, but Dan is the man
    Jets- Joe Namath
    Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it?

    Bengals- Anthony Munoz
    Browns- Jim Brown Too bad for Otto Graham
    Ravens- Ray Lewis
    Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.

    Colts- Johnny Unitas
    Jaguars- Jimmy Smith
    Texans- Andre Johnson
    Titans- Earl Campbell

    Broncos- John Elway
    Chargers- Lance Alworth
    Chiefs- Willie Lanier or Len Dawson???
    Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose. image

    Cowboys- Emmitt Smith or Bob Lilly??? Some great Cowboys but I'd have to take Emmitt.
    Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
    Giants- Lawrence Taylor
    Redskins- Sammy Baugh

    Bears- Walter Payton or Dick Butkus???
    Lions- Barry Sanders
    Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
    Vikings- Fran Tarkenton Fran was the man

    Bucs- Derrick Brooks
    Falcons- Claude Humphrey or Tommy Nobis???What no Vick? lol
    Panthers- Julius Peppers
    Saints- Willie Roaf or Morten Andersen???Ugh. Sean Payton? Drew Brees? They got them farther in the playoffs. Gotta take Morten I suppose

    Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
    49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
    Rams- Deacon Jones or Merlin Olsen??? Deacon, the master of the head slap and Pam non-stick spray on ther jersey.
    Seahawks- Steve Largent No other Seahawk even worth mentioning in the same breath as Largent?

    Would be an interesting set. Some tough choices to make. And the nice thing is, I think I own most if not all of these. image Woo Hoo!
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd take Jurgensen hands down over Baugh, and I'd also take Maynard over the highly overrated Joe Namath. Montana/Rice? WOW. Talk about a tough decision. I'd ever so slightly lean towards Rice.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Ive never seen any footage of Unitas, but I would have to go with Manning here.

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Here are some of my issues for the above comments. Please expound on these if you can.

    Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
    ---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith?

    Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah?

    Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
    --Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert..

    Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
    --Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one..

    Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
    --The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice..

    Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
    --I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though..

    Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
    --Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..

    49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
    --How do you leave either of these guys off??

    Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...

    Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP.

    Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • Very cool list

    First from Raider Nation - I have to vote Marcus Allen , even though Al Davis has wouldn't. I love Howie, but Marcus was the man on those mid 80's team.

    Rice over Montana , only because he helped put two QB's in the Hall - Possibly the best player in NFL History

    Marshall Faulk slightly over Deacon Jones

    I hate not to give the O-line some love, but I have to take Brady over Hannah.

    My only vote for Two players Payton and Butkus - how don't you vote for Both?

    Saints - ???

    Buc - Lee Roy Selmon , at least till Brooks gets inducted. He deserves something for playing for that sad franchise.

    Packers - Farve or Lombardi ? Maybe this is where you put your only Coach.

    Steelers - Joe Greene









  • From a KC perspective, Lanier blends in with a group of great defensive players they had at the time. Bobby Bell,
    Buck Buchanan, Jerry Mays and Johnny Robinson, etc. But your a little more hard pressed to pick off the stellar offensive names of the time. Many competent players but few superstars.
    In KC, Lanier is a legend, Dawson is a God.
    Fuzz
    Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
    got to admitt that i love seeing that its so hard to pick a packer compared to many of the other teams!!

    i agree its close between Hutson and Favre...with White right on their heels. Hutson was the man in terms of WR until Rice. He is credited with coming up with most of the routes still used today. Though how much of that is true who knows. I never saw him play.

    Favre one of the all time bests as well. He has basically set the bar for QB's to have to have a 30+ TD passing season to have a good year. He is one of the guys that could have played in any era and have been great. I am partial to Favre since I have been able to see him in person and on TV his whole career, nver saw Hutson (born 1973). I must say, going into most games with Favre under center I was thought that we would have a decent shot to win. Not sure you can say that about a WR or DE.

    Maybe some teams need a shared spot. Like the Packers and maybe niners with Montana and Rice. Though I think Joe gets the edge for the same reason as Favre, plus he took what nearly 3 different teams to the Super Bowl.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    No shared spots...Gotta somehow go ONE PER...

    Agreed on Len Dawson..That pretty much makes up my mind on that one.

    Joe Greene/Jack Lambert...undecided
    Montana/Rice..Undecided

    Marcus Allen/Howie Long/Jim Otto...Ive still got to go Otto...I dont want to fall into the trap of believing the more recent players are always better...Can anyone name a better Center thats ever played the game? I can name better DEs and better RBs..Probably 5 of each that are better...Still going Otto at this point..

    Marshall Faulk over Deacon Jones??? I dont know if I can buy that..Deacon was the greatest DE of all-time before Reggie White came along..He's still top 2 or 3...Marshall was great, but Deacon is legendary...Still leaning towards Deacon there..

    Still not sold on putting Brady in over Hannah...I have to look at what each player has DONE, not what current players MIGHT do..And Hannah is still far more decorated individually...Still undecided though...

    Selmon vs. Brooks..LeeRoy was HOFer, but Brooks has been one of the best OLBs ever on a dominant defense...Still going Brooks..

    Adding Lombardi is an interesting idea...Definitely the face of the franchise..But the thought was to call this the "Franchise Player" set.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Here are some of my issues for the above comments. Please expound on these if you can.

    Bills- Bruce Smith or OJ Simpson??? as much as I hate to say this...OJ. I was always a big Jim Kelly fan though.
    ---Bruce Smith-11 Pro Bowls, 8 Times 1st Team All-Pro, 2 time Defensive Player of the Year..OJ and Kelly were excellent, but were they the more dominant than Bruce Smith?
    I see your point...I guess it's tough to argue that one

    Patriots- John Hannah or Tom Brady??? Gotta be Brady, doesn't it? hannah is widely considered the greatest OG of all-time. 10 times he was 1st Team All-Pro...Not necessarily looking for just the glamour guys, but the best PLAYER ever..Brady is getting close, but is he already passed Hannah?
    Never saw Hannah play so I just have to go with the guy with the 4 Cs (no, not cut, color, clarity, carat) Cool, Calm, Collected & Clutch

    Steelers- Joe Greene or Jack Lambert??? What about Terry? I would go with Lambert over Greene. That guy was crazy.
    --Bradshaw didn't dominate like the 2 defensive guys did...Both Greene and lambert are both top 5 at their positions ALL TIME IMO..Cant argue with Lambert..
    I just have an affection for Terry. I like Lambert over Greene though. Although its tough to argue with a guy who has a nickname of "Mean". I didn't really see either of them play, but of the highlights I've seen, Lambert was a madman. Pain didn't seem to affect him.

    Raiders- Jim Otto Otto huh? I would have thought Howie Long or Stabler might make the list. Center just isn't a glorious position I suppose.
    --Like Hannah, Otto is widely considered the greatest Center in history..Stabler can't even get in the HOF. Long was good, but better than Otto? Thats a tough one..
    Again, center isn't a sexy position and he's way before my time. I'd have to defer to others on this one. I do like the Marcus Allen comment though. He crossed my mind.

    Eagles- Chuck Bednarik or Reggie White??? Reggie..Reggie...Reggie
    --The reason Reggie isn't the easy choice is that he split his career, half Eagles half Packers. IMO, the top DE of all-time, but is he the greatest EAGLE? Played 8 years for the Eagles, 7 Pro Bowls with them...Bednarik played all 14 seasons with the Eagles and went to 8 Pro Bowls, 8 time 1st team All-Pro...Bednarik is almost considered Mr. Eagle...lol..Another tough choice..
    Bednarik, again, way before my time. Maybe an eagles fan can comment like Fuzz did about the Chiefs.

    Packers- Don Hutson, Brett Favre or Reggie White???Gotta take Favre
    --I don't know if i can leave Hutson off...He was more dominant in his era than Jerry Rice was in the 80s-90s and defined the position of WR...Love Favre though..
    Being a Vikings fan, and therefore a die hard Packer hater. Sorry jradke image, I woud still have to go with Favre. Hutson is one of the all time greats but as much as I have to despise the Packers, I can't think of any team, any other time that I've watched and thought "they've still got a chance" no matter how much time is left. Favre just exudes confidence. For all his flaws and mistakes, he's still one of the best ever IMO. I love watching the guy, I just wish he played for someone other than GB. lol

    Cardinals- Larry Willson or Dick Lane??? Lane
    --Same as Reggie White..Split his career with Lions/Cards...Wilson was a first ballot HOFer..

    49ers- Jerry Rice or Joe Montana??? How do you choose? Coin flip...Montana.
    --How do you leave either of these guys off??

    Baugh vs. Jurgensen...Baugh 7 times 1st Team All-Pro...Jurgensen- Once...Not close...

    Namath vs. Maynard...I debated these guys for a minute, but it took Maynard 14 years to get in the HOF..Only 4 Pro Bowls in 15 years, most of which in the AFL..He couldn't make more AFL Pro Bowls???Namath is over-rated BUT was a 2 time AFL MVP and also a Super bowl MVP.
    I'm not a big Namath fan myself, but tought o argue.

    Unitas vs. Manning...Peyton is the best in the game right now, so if you've never watched Unitas I can understand your choice. Watch Unitas and I don't think you would choose Peyton just yet.

    Jason

    Hometown affinity is sometimes a little different than national recognition. Being a Vikings fan, Robert Smith, Randy Moss (even still) and Carter, as well as Tark and Kapp are hometown heroes. I would argue that Carter and Moss would draw a much bigger crowd at a signing or personal appearance than Tarkenton would

    ..and what about the Graham v. Brown argument? I know, I know...Jim Brown was great...I get it. But Otto Graham was about as dominant as a QB ever was.

  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
    envoy,

    I love your comments about Favre!!! Coming from a guy that likes a team that wears purple!! Had to get that out, sorry.

    But it speaks volumes of the type of player that Favre is. That fans even of bitter rivals understand what type of player he is and what he could always do to any team at any time. He is the type that if you give him an inch it looks like a mile to him and he will take it. Yes sometimes those are INTS but many times more times they have been huge plays that changed the game.

    The only player if ever thought was a treat to watch was with one of our rivals as well. Payton, that is the only reason that I ever rooted for the bears in super bowl XXI. Then ditka doesnt give him the ball for a TD, what an A**.

    Moss almost fit into that group as well but then started to slide if with his attitidue.

    jay
    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    I have to toss Barry Sanders into that "bitter rival" conversation as well. Payton, is...well...Payton. Not much else to say there. I have season tix to the Queens (belive me, it was a tough pill to swallow this year, we're gonna suck. But I'm gonna cheer anyway).

    I couldn't agree more with your comments. Well, aside from the "wears purple remark". image

    To me, a great player is a great player, No matter the era, the team or the disdain you have for your rivals. It's tough to swallow when they do something extraordinary to your team, but then you have to go back and look at it in amazement. Usually years later, when the pain has subsided. image
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    I'll just comment on my team, the Steelers. I'd have to take Joe Greene. He was an absolute monster from the games/footage I've seen. Lambert isn't a slouch, but I'd take Greene.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Bednarik was Jack Lambert...But meaner and with a smaller rule book...If you've never watched him play, IMO he's the most violent HOF caliber player to ever wear an NFL uniform. Its a must see..The guy was talking peoples heads off every game..Plus he played Offense AND defense for many years...

    Leaning a little heavier towards Favre..Especially considering his consecutive games streak and overall numbers. I wish he had more Championship rings would make it a bit easier...And like I said, I don't want to forget about what the older players did way back..Its too easy to call current or recent players the greatest because they are in the forefront. It would be a travesty to forget how great the old timers really were. I havent seen alot on Hutson, as I dont believe a whole lot exists. But what I have seen he was straight up torching guys like no one had ever witnessed. Favre was great, but others were doing similar things at the time.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll just comment on my team, the Steelers. I'd have to take Joe Greene. He was an absolute monster from the games/footage I've seen. Lambert isn't a slouch, but I'd take Greene. >>



    Agreed...I've never before and havent since seen anyone throw offensive linemen (usually 2 at a time) around like Mean Joe...He looked like he was 6-10, 400 lbs. when he was on the field..Unstoppable...Anyone that hasn't seen it, you are really missing out..You will be in awe...

    Lambert was evil, wicked, mean and nasty and had a serious nose for the ball...But was he as dominant a force as Mean Joe??

    Going to be a tough call...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    For the older players, you could simply take the highest ranked player from each team from the Sporting News top 100 of all time. The teams involving recent players would have to be added/discussed but this is a good tool.






    Here is the link



    The complete list

    1. Jim Brown
    2. Jerry Rice
    3. Joe Montana
    4. Lawrence Taylor
    5. Johnny Unitas
    6. Don Hutson
    7. Otto Graham
    8. Walter Payton
    9. Dick Butkus
    10. Bob Lilly

    11. Sammy Baugh
    12. Barry Sanders
    13. Deacon Jones
    14. Joe Greene
    15. Gino Marchetti
    16. John Elway
    17. Anthony Munoz
    18. Ray Nitschke
    19. Night Train Lane
    20. John Hannah


    21. Gale Sayers
    22. Reggie White
    23. Ronnie Lott
    24. Jim Parker
    25. Merlin Olsen
    26. O.J. Simpson
    27. Dan Marino
    28. Forrest Gregg
    29. Roger Staubach
    30. Jack Lambert


    31. Lance Alworth
    32. Marion Motley
    33. Earl Campbell
    34. Alan Page
    35. Bronko Nagurski
    36. Mel Blount
    37. Deion Sanders
    38. Eric Dickerson
    39. Sid Luckman
    40. Raymond Berry


    41. Bart Starr
    42. Willie Lanier
    43. Larry Wilson
    44. Terry Bradshaw
    45. Herb Adderley
    46. Steve Largent
    47. Jack Ham
    48. John Mackey
    49. Bill George
    50. Willie Brown

    51. Randy White
    52. Bobby Layne
    53. Tony Dorsett
    54. Chuck Bednarik
    55. Art Shell
    56. Mike Singletary
    57. Roosevelt Brown
    58. Bruce Smith
    59. Fran Tarkenton
    60. Paul Warfield

    61. Ken Houston
    62. Gene Upshaw
    63. Steve Young
    64. Ted Hendricks
    65. Joe Schmidt
    66. Bobby Bell
    67. Buck Buchanan
    68. Emmitt Smith
    69. Willie Davis
    70. Emlen Tunnell


    71. Lenny Moore
    72. Marcus Allen
    73. Kellen Winslow
    74. Mel Hein
    75. Mike Webster
    76. Sam Huff
    77. Steve Van Buren
    78. Jim Otto
    79. Larry Little
    80. Red Grange


    81. Darrell Green
    82. Brett Favre
    83. Franco Harris
    84. Dwight Stephenson
    85. Charley Taylor
    86. Jack Christiansen
    87. Rod Woodson
    88. Jim Thorpe
    89. Elroy Hirsch
    90. Mike Ditka


    91. Art Monk
    92. Dan Fouts
    93. Mike Haynes
    94. Fred Biletnikoff
    95. Troy Aikman
    96. Joe Namath
    97. Lem Barney
    98. George Blanda
    99. Lou Groza
    100. Charlie Joiner





    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    How bout Deion for Falcons??

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How bout Deion for Falcons?? >>



    I think if you're including him (played only 5 years with Atlanta), you have to include players like Andre Rison, Terrance Mathis, Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, etc. I can't, for the life of me, think of any all time great OLs or defensive players (other than Sanders) from the Falcons.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Dave, Ive seen that list before..There are like 20 of them that profess to rank all the greats. Most are pretty much in line and many of these match up to exactly what I have.

    The thing those lists dont differentiate is that these are FRANCHISE players. Deion only played 5 years for the Falcons...Went to 3 Pro Bowls as a Falcon...Went to more Pro Bowls and got a ring as a Cowboy..This was the problem with Reggie White...He split his career between 2 teams...NightTrain Lane is another..Split between Cards and Lions...I want the best player for THAT franchise in its history...

    That Sporting news list doesnt really help with Rice/Montana or Payton/Butkus..They are ranked side-by-side..lol

    The other issue is that this list was done in 1999...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I know it is an older list but thought it could be of some help....

    I couldnt believe that Favre was ranked all the way down at the bottom. Surely he would be much higher if done today...


    dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • Hey, Art Monk is ranked number 91 on that list!

    *ducks*
  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
    Favre did go to three straight NFC (almost four if they would have ruled Rice's fumble a fumble), winning two of them. Two super bowls, with the Defense with Reggie not be able to stop Davis, otherwise Favre would have two plus a superbowl MVP. Not too mention he was close to the MVP from XXXI if it wasnt for the TD return from Howard. He had 2 passing TD's and one rushing TD. 2005 is the only losing season under his belt as a starter.

    I will have to dig up the numbers again on TD passes by season (Favre, Marino, Manning, Elway, Young, Montana) but some of the numbers are more surprising that most would think. Of all of Favre's seasons he only had 3 if i recall that were under 20. His first where he only played 13 games I think (18 or 19 TD's), 2005 and Sherman's first year as coach (all were 18-19). I think he has about 8 30+ TD seasons which is more than any of the others I mentioned above. I will post the numbers again.

    But by picking one player someone will always be left behind.

    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    Jason et al...

    Is $550 dlvd fair for a centered PSA 8 Motley rc?

    Regards,

    Greg M.

    edited to say that the $550 is for a PSA 7...not PSA 8!! That definately answers my question about whether it's a good deal.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    A psa 7 just sold for close to $300 IIRC. So I wouldn't think $550 is out of line for a bright, well centered PSA 8. Jason can probably give you actual sales figures for an 8 though.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jason et al...

    Is $550 dlvd fair for a centered PSA 8 Motley rc?

    Regards,

    Greg M. >>



    Greg, $550 is fair for an ugly off centered one..lol

    Send that seller my way if you don't buy it! I need an 8...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭✭
    Anyone with me on Jurgensen over Baugh?

    Baugh - 165 G, 187 TDs, 203 INTs

    Jurgensen - 218 G, 255 TDs, 189 INTs

    Jurgensen also lead the league in passing yards 5 TIMES, and finished second once. Pretty darn dominant. Despite playing in 53 more games than Baugh (that's 3 1/4 full seasons by today's standards), he threw 24 fewer picks.

    Now I know these guys obviously played in completely different eras. That makes comparing them difficult - especially since the NFL was much more about the run in Baugh's day. But I still give the nod to Jurgensen.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Baugh..Top 5 in Passing yardage 11 times...Top 5 in TD passes 9 times...

    Jurgensen...Top 5 passing yardage 6 times...Tops 5 TD passes 7 times...And if you want to factor in the AFL players, this would be much less.

    Baugh retired as the NFL All-time leader in passing yardage, completion pct, passing attempts, passing completions, and touchdown passes. Not to mention lowest career INT PCT...Yes he threw alot of INTs by todays standards, but for his day he threw the least, he was the greatest QB in early football history.

    Jurgensen was good, very under-rated in fact. But he wasn't Slingin Sammy.

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I'm not knocking the idea at all but am I the only one feeling set registry overkill when it comes to these type sets? Right now besides the HOF Rookie set, we have

    All time QB's, RB's, WR's
    75th anniversary team
    Heisman Winners
    Super Bowl MVP's
    50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's teams of the decade
    All time team sets
    HOF Bears, HOF Browns

    All these set include pretty much the same cards with some exceptions. I could understand doing a set of your favorite team that may not include the non-HOF worthy players, but, to me, seems like overkill. For example, every card within the 75th anniversary team (except white shoes johnson), will be inshrined in Canton eventually and is, essentially, a smaller version of the HOF RC set. Of the list being made of the best from each team only 3-4 are not strong HOF candiates yet. (maybe) Those would be Andre Johnson, Jimmy Smith, Julius Peppers, and possibly the Falcons representative. However, since the players would change when a "better" player comes along, eventually all be be HOF'ers, creating another smaller HOF RC set.


    I have registered some of the other sets just because I have most of the needed cards (all time position sets), but I would have to draw the line somewhere...

    Just my simple opinion. Take it for what it's worth.



    Dave


    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    I agree that many of these sets are somewhat redundant.

    But they are all voluntary..Basically just gives you plenty of options on what you'd like to collect. Not everyone collects the entire HOF RC set. Its kinda like having the 1972 Topps Oakland Raiders set...Its just a smaller version of the much bigger set. These are just in different formats, different ideas. For me, the #1 priority is the NFL HOF RC set, always has been always will be. But the smaller sets are fun when you can put together a collection of varying formats or lists. At least they are to me anyway. So I don't think it is overkill as long as the idea of the set is different and original.

    This particular set that I am proposing would be different in that only one player could be listed for each team. Meaning cards can and will be deleted via vote if/when new players become worthy.

    Nothing set in stone, just something Ive been kicking around..If everyone hates the idea, I would gladly nix it and just make my own set and put it on the Collectors Showcase or something...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • DavemriDavemri Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
    I'm not telling you to nix it, I am just giving my opinion. I love these HOF RC's, and if this set gets listed, I may list mine. In fact, I didnt realize that I have most of the 75th anniv team set and have never registered it. Maybe I will..

    It seems that most of us here are in the same positions, give or take a few with all these periferial sets. If Fight4oldDC decided to put all his cards in the other sets, he would most likely be #1 in any one of them. I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..image) LOL...

    Dave

    FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
    image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    For me, the battle is with my own collecting standards. Its fun to see how I stack up against some of the other great collections out there and its the best place for tracking what I have and seeing my cards no matter where I am in the world. But I have no illusions of grandeur or that I will ever have the type of money it takes to hang with the big dogs...I enjoy viewing their sets as well, so it doesnt bother me to be #5 or #20...But that's just me...

    I always have thought the more collector's on these sets the better...The competition drives up prices and makes all of our collections more valuable.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭


    << <i> I am in the 12-18 place in all my other sets and 17th in the HOF RC set. (which makes me mad because I have added alot lately and have lost 2 places..image) LOL...

    Dave >>



    LOL. I hear you there! I move up one spot once in a while and I'm there for about a day. And by the way, it's you that keeps passing me. image I've got some work to do now though. You've really put some distance between us now.

    Oh and Jason, if the collectors disappeared from some of these sets, all of our collections values would drop. So the more collectors, the better indeed.
  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
    I agree with the redundancy with some of these sets. Look at the baseball runs of the decades 50's, 60's. They are just all the topps sets put together. But then again all that one gets is a piece of paper. I got one for a 3 card set.

    Maybe instead of making this set a RC card set how about the last card of the player with the team that he is entered in the set with. that way you get to see almost of his stats with that team and why he is great. this way it would be a totally new set not a rehash, plus provide some good reasons why each player was chosen. just a thought
    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
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