<< <i>Just threw this up on the main board too - just got poppage on this sweet 1/1 - thoughts on what it might go for?
17 1 15724513 GEM MINT 10 1980 TOPPS 195 LESTER HAYES Card US >>
If it just popped in the last couple fo days it will actually be a POP 2. One was graded PSA 10 earlier this year.
Jason >>
Really? Damn. Pop was 0 when I checked earlier this year, but its been a while. Pending sale, and let the guy know that it is likely NOT a 1/1 - he's still interested so that's good. Thanks for the info. Pete
Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
For those of you wondering how the National is this year..........it sucks. At least, that's my opinion. I only had one day, so I couldn't really look at a lot of raw stuff & had to stick to already graded stuff in order to get through the whole show. After about 5 hours on the floor I had gone through the entire show and had spent more money taking my daughter on the ferris wheel than on cards. I basically had to decide between a '73 Topps box from BBCE and/or some stuff from Rick at the Mint State booth (I think Rick has more graded vintage FB than the rest of the show combined).
From talking to some others, I think the general consensus is that there wasn't much selection and the stuff that was available was overpriced. Hopefully the latter will change as the weekend goes on and some good deals can be had by those attending over the weekend (Pete, Vince...good luck!). Shout out to Scott & Dave, hopefully you guys were able to find some stuff.
They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought.
I have to agree with you. The raw stuff is so overpriced for condition its ridiculous. I've seen cards no better than EX priced higher than their graded counterparts in higher grade. There seems to be a total disconnect between the sellers of raw material versus those selling only graded material. Rick of Mint State has tremendous material including a 52 Large Ollie Matson RC PSA 8. Check him out
I have to agree with Jasen.....Besides Rick, not much to see for the HOF RC collector. A few things of note...... I saw 3 Nagurski's. 2 of them were PSA 4's and were not for sale. They were displayed as an auction preview. Mile High had one and Huggins and Scott had the other. The Mile High card looked like a very nice 4. The last Nagurski was raw and would grade no higher than a 2. It was for sale with an complete raw set listed for 11K. JustCollect had a Very Nice PSA 6 Baugh for $975 and a PSA 7 Conerly with sticker price of $6.5K
The second PSA 10 Hutson was pulled and graded from the same cello hoard as the first one. (Mcaboube?) Rumor has it that Steve sold 2 55 cello's for 5K each and the Hutson 10, Rockne 10, and PSA 9 horseman was pulled. I would have to think that Hutson is a 20K card?
Saw the new 1/1 PSA 10 Lenny Moore at Rick's table (WOW!!)
I ended up buying 1 card. A 76 Lambert PSA 8 that upgrades my 7 for $25. A good deal until you add my $18 to get in the show, $8 for parking and $5 for a slice of Pizza......
Jasen.....Very nice finally meeting you and your very cute daughter.
<< <i>They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought. >>
Jasen:
After the fiasco in Atlantic City in 2003, I don't think there's much of a shot having another National in a gambling town.
It was great meeting you and your daughter is a doll!!! Hope she had a blast on the Ferris Wheel and digging into the ice cream.
Some nice activity on Saturday and a few dealers loosened up on prices, but as I've said to a few, it seems that most raw cards are priced a grade high and then another 20% over retail. I was quite surprised about how many dealers were "firm" on their outrageous prices. The best was one guy that when I asked if he could work a discount if I picked a few hundred dollars worth of stuff replied "I could probably do around ten off." I dug through his material with slightly inflated stickers, but found a nice lot totaling $640.00. I asked if he could do $550.00 since I assumed it to be about $575 with a 10% discount. He looked at me and said the price was $630.00 and that he already took "ten off" and that was his bottom line price since he could sell these cards all day long in Virginia. I politely said I wasn't interested at that price and handed back the cards and thanked him for his time. He glared at me and I went on to the next table.
It's not quite as interesting as the counterfeit Jordan guy last year, but it just goes to show I should always make sure that I'm more specific when I ask in advance about possible discounts and never assume that ten off means $10.00 rather than 10%...
<< <i>After the fiasco in Atlantic City in 2003, I don't think there's much of a shot having another National in a gambling town. >>
What happened?
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought
Some nice activity on Saturday and a few dealers loosened up on prices, but as I've said to a few, it seems that most raw cards are priced a grade high and then another 20% over retail. I was quite surprised about how many dealers were "firm" on their outrageous prices. The best was one guy that when I asked if he could work a discount if I picked a few hundred dollars worth of stuff replied "I could probably do around ten off." I dug through his material with slightly inflated stickers, but found a nice lot totaling $640.00. I asked if he could do $550.00 since I assumed it to be about $575 with a 10% discount. He looked at me and said the price was $630.00 and that he already took "ten off" and that was his bottom line price since he could sell these cards all day long in Virginia. I politely said I wasn't interested at that price and handed back the cards and thanked him for his time. He glared at me and I went on to the next table.
LMAO..........Guess we should add him to the future set...... If I were him, I'd be trying to get my starting job back....
Vince Young's bold prediction: 'I will be in the Hall of Fame'
Backup Titans QB Vince Young is confident he'll be holding the Lombardi Trophy at some point
In remarks to Esquire, Young, lifted from the starting job in Week 1 last year, boldly predicted he'll regain the starting job and even achieve football immortality in Canton, Ohio.
"I don't know when I'll start again," he said to the magazine. "But I will be the next black quarterback to win a Super Bowl. And I will be in the Hall of Fame."
Young was the third overall pick of the 2006 draft. He started 29 games for the Titans in his first three years, with an 18-11 record. But veteran Kerry Collins supplanted him last year, and led the team to an NFL-best 18-11 record.
"Kerry Collins and I are good friends," Young told Esquire. "He's been through this, too, so he knows. He's teaching me about stocks and investments."
Titans coach Jeff Fisher has said he wants Young to reclaim the starting job at some point. But he also made clear that Collins is his starter for this season.
Young paid tribute to his mentor, former Titans QB Steve McNair, who was killed July 4 in what police say was a murder-suicide orchestrated by his girlfriend, Sahel Kazemi.
"It's hard to express in words how important Steve McNair is to me," Young told the magazine.
McNair is one of three black quarterbacks to have started a Super Bowl. Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb and Washington Doug Williams, who led the Redskins to a win in Super Bowl XXII, are the others.
Young said he is "in the best shape" of his life.
"I'm back to playing my game and not worrying about what everybody else thinks," he told the magazine. "That was my mistake: worrying too much about critics. I'm only twenty-six, man.
Funny stuff, man. I seem to remember similar stuff out of Trent Dilfer in his days with the Bucs, comparing himself to Elway and Marino. Ironically, of course, he did hoist the Lombardi trophy once more than Marino.
Funny stuff, man. I seem to remember similar stuff out of Trent Dilfer in his days with the Bucs, comparing himself to Elway and Marino. Ironically, of course, he did hoist the Lombardi trophy once more than Marino.
Jasen >>
I believe Dilfer compared himself to Favre not those other two chumps.
Does anyone know why many of this set's higher-end early cards have seen astonishing population increases in such a short period of time?
For example, from April 23, 2009 until today, populations have changed from/to: 1935 Cliff Battles in PSA 8+ has gone from 26 to 28 1935 Clarke Hinkle in PSA 7 has gone from 29, 14 higher up to 30, 15 higher 1935 Bronko Nagurski in PSA 4 grade alone has gone from POP 11 to POP 14 1948 Leaf Sid Luckman above PSA 6 level has gone from POP 5 to POP 7 1948 Leaf Doak Walker in PSA 7 has gone from POP 16, 4 higher to POP 17, 6 higher 1948 Leaf Charlie Trippi PSA 7+has gone from a POP of 19 up to 22 1948 Leaf Bill Dudley PSA 7+ has gone from POP 25 to 28 1948 Leaf G. Connor above PSA 7 level has gone from POP 11 to POP 14 1951 Bowman Stautner in PSA 8 grade has gone from POP 40 to 43 There are other notables in the '60s, including Charley Taylor and Bob Brown rookies, that have seen POP surges at the high end.
Of course, populations are only going to rise for the most part. However, some of these cards are sixty and seventy-year-old antiquities and have seen population surges of 15% or more in just the last 100 days! Does anyone know why? Is it:
A) More people are crossing over to PSA (either from any other companies for the Registry, or out of nearly defunct GAI holders)? Review specials that have seen lots of significant bumps? C) Opening packs (I left '55 AAs out of the above due to their well-documented recent pack openings)? D) Card owners that crack-and-resubmit a graded card, then carelessly toss their flips rather than sending them in so PSA can deduct one from the POP? E) A few more people learning of PSA's existence hence more strictly raw submissions? F) Relaxed grading standards? G) Other? H) Combinations of the above factors - then which factors? I) Keith spent entirely too much time on this.
There's one factor that I would rule out - coincidence.
Not that it helps you out...but the crossing over theory goes both ways....which will effect pop reports. I am sending in a PSA 5 Dutch Clark and PSA 5 Turk Edwards National Chicles to SGC this month...so you can (hopefully if it goes well) subtract them from the pop report.
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave, thanks for the compliment on my Hinkle. Yes, it was a self-submission; an SGC 88 crossover. The crossover was Part 1 of 2, and Part 2 of 2 will be a review to get it into a PSA 8.5 holder. You'll see the bump on my HOF set if it happens. Yak saw this card in person in its SGC 88 holder early this year (I think in Philly), and thought this two part strategy might be the best way for it to garner elite residence in a NM-MT+ PSA 8.5 holder (rather than cut the SGC holder and submit raw) if it has any chance at all. Only nine Chicles have ever graded 8.5 though, so I'm not expecting it. I can see PSA returning it to me in it's PSA 8 holder with a sticker on it that reads "Corners", and I'll still be plenty happy with the screaming beauty. (Then, I'll have to figure out how to get that sticky stuff off ).
I like SGC cards, and only crossed this one over since it has PSA 8.5 potential.
As for the remarkable spike in the POP numbers for this set's high-end cards, I say its due to reasons A, B, and D above. That's only my guess and I'm not a collecting veteran; that's why I'm looking for others' input. In fact, the POP spike is even more dramatic - I only began tracking it from April because I noticed the trend prior to that.
I noticed the Doak Walker went from a pop 4 in psa 8 to a pop 6 in about two months, that was a head scratcher. One of them is in the Mammory lane auction ending tonight.... but hands off everyone, thats Fletches card, he needs it to maintain his absolute and total domination of the Heisman set
Some of you may have noticed that last night while Memory Lane was winding down, the one and only 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown in mint condition sold, eBay Item No. 160354441420.
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Adams could get there eventually, but being honest how many AFL owners really deserve to be inducted? You've already got Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, and now Ralph Wilson...That's quite a representation IMO. HOF slots are sparse to begin with, and I'd much rather see a worthy player or coach get in. But, this 50th anniversary of the AFL is getting quite a bit of pub, so it might give him a rub in the next few voting sessions. Will be interesting to see if it has an affect on the senior voting in a few weeks.
I think you know my feelings on Nobis. For me, he's the best HOF eligible defensive player not in the HOF. But based on the fact that Humphrey was selected last year, I'd be shocked to see another Falcon in back-to-back years. I do think they will look to the LB's however. They haven't selected an LB since Wilcox and Buoniconti in 2000 and 2001. Dick LeBeau is also a strong possible. If he makes that list of 15 or so semifinalists, I think of anyone he could get the biggest push. He's deserving even based on his playing years alone, BUT much like John Madden, his extra curricular things could help..If they do look for an AFL guy, I think it would come down to Floyd Little and John Hadl.
We'll know by the end of the month!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
No extra LeBeau's here, sorry. Also, after hearing who the 5 senior committee voters going to the HOF to select the finalists this year were going to be, it pretty much guarantees that you won't see any pre-war selections. I mean never say never, but it is the younger crew headed to Canton at the end of the month, which another reason I really like Gradishar's chances...
Not to mention there are a whopping 39 signatures on Wistert's HOF petition..Honestly, I hope no one sends that to any of the voters as a reason they should select him. If they do, he will NEVER get in...lol...There are a few senior candidates with literally THOUSANDS of signatures on petitions pushing them for the HOF...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Adams could get there eventually, but being honest how many AFL owners really deserve to be inducted? You've already got Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, and now Ralph Wilson...That's quite a representation IMO. HOF slots are sparse to begin with, and I'd much rather see a worthy player or coach get in. But, this 50th anniversary of the AFL is getting quite a bit of pub, so it might give him a rub in the next few voting sessions. Will be interesting to see if it has an affect on the senior voting in a few weeks.
I think you know my feelings on Nobis. For me, he's the best HOF eligible defensive player not in the HOF. But based on the fact that Humphrey was selected last year, I'd be shocked to see another Falcon in back-to-back years. I do think they will look to the LB's however. They haven't selected an LB since Wilcox and Buoniconti in 2000 and 2001. Dick LeBeau is also a strong possible. If he makes that list of 15 or so semifinalists, I think of anyone he could get the biggest push. He's deserving even based on his playing years alone, BUT much like John Madden, his extra curricular things could help..If they do look for an AFL guy, I think it would come down to Floyd Little and John Hadl.
We'll know by the end of the month!
Jason >>
I'd love to see LeBeau make it in, great player and coach.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
No extra LeBeau's here, sorry. Also, after hearing who the 5 senior committee voters going to the HOF to select the finalists this year were going to be, it pretty much guarantees that you won't see any pre-war selections. I mean never say never, but it is the younger crew headed to Canton at the end of the month, which another reason I really like Gradishar's chances...
Not to mention there are a whopping 39 signatures on Wistert's HOF petition..Honestly, I hope no one sends that to any of the voters as a reason they should select him. If they do, he will NEVER get in...lol...There are a few senior candidates with literally THOUSANDS of signatures on petitions pushing them for the HOF...
Jason >>
I can only imagine how many signatures must be on Jerry Kramers petition. If not I am sure one could get a few thousand a day.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
this is funny. after my last post i went to a packer message board. posted a while ago today was a link to a kramer HOF petition. i have no idea when it started but there are already 250 signatures.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Tough to make predictions without any solid info, but if I had to guess right now I would say Randy Gradishar and Jerry Kramer this year. To me, those are easy choices and each should be locks to get the 80% for induction. This bad habit of only getting one of the 2 candidates needs to stop until they clear the backlog of 10-15 senior candidates who really do belong in the HOF.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I would like to see Jerry Kramer get in this year. I have been a big fan of LeBeau for a long time. greg......I sold Michael Moore about 4-5 Lebeau's last year. Maybe he still has them. I still have 2 extra that are absolute screamers. They need to get back to psa...so I'll probably join again. I don't have all that much to sub....so at the new price it might not be worth it to me.
They will be 8.5's or higher for sure and will make them available to they guys here when I get them back.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>it is about time that Johnny Robinson got in. I know I am biased, but he should be in. >>
Agreed..Unfortunately, Emmitt Thomas took his spot somehow ( I still don't get it). If Robinson EVER gets in at this point, I would have to think very distant future, like 10+ years. That Chiefs Defense from the late 60s early 70s is already represented by Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier and Thomas. With so many other viable candidates, it would be a major shocker to see them select another Chiefs defensive player. In fact, Bronco fans might lose it and burn the HOF down at that point...lol...Especially if Floyd Little, Rich Jackson and Randy Gradishar are still sitting out there eligible at the time.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Can anyone suggest some books regarding the NFL in the 20-40's? I recently finished Monster of the Midway about Bronko Nagurski and found it outstanding...Perkdog actually suggested it for me a while back. Its actually the first book I've read since high school.
I've also been watching alot of things on the NFL network that show some old footage. I watched the history of the packers today and "reunion at Canton" yesterday. Very good...
That History of the Packers show is a good watch. They also have them for the Browns, Cowboys and Raiders that I have seem. Of course none of those franchises can go back as far as the Pack...
FYI..I heard today that Rod Woodson was really pushing Dick LeBeau to the senior committee guys this past weekend. I know he mentioned him in his speech, but he was really campaigning hard offline as well. If LeBeau makes the semifinal list as he has the past couple of years, he could really be one of the guys this year. He'd probably knock out Gradishar and continue the plight of the overlooked LBs...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>That History of the Packers show is a good watch. They also have them for the Browns, Cowboys and Raiders that I have seem. Of course none of those franchises can go back as far as the Pack...
FYI..I heard today that Rod Woodson was really pushing Dick LeBeau to the senior committee guys this past weekend. I know he mentioned him in his speech, but he was really campaigning hard offline as well. If LeBeau makes the semifinal list as he has the past couple of years, he could really be one of the guys this year. He'd probably knock out Gradishar and continue the plight of the overlooked LBs...lol
Jason >>
thats right, not to many go as far back as the pack. in fact today is their 90th Bday!!!! Go PACK Go.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Can anyone suggest some books regarding the NFL in the 20-40's? I recently finished Monster of the Midway about Bronko Nagurski and found it outstanding...Perkdog actually suggested it for me a while back. Its actually the first book I've read since high school.
I've also been watching alot of things on the NFL network that show some old footage. I watched the history of the packers today and "reunion at Canton" yesterday. Very good...
Dave >>
Dave,
I am an avid reader of this era of football. My favorite one is called "What a game they played" by Roger Whittingham
<< <i>it is about time that Johnny Robinson got in. I know I am biased, but he should be in. >>
Agreed..Unfortunately, Emmitt Thomas took his spot somehow ( I still don't get it). If Robinson EVER gets in at this point, I would have to think very distant future, like 10+ years. That Chiefs Defense from the late 60s early 70s is already represented by Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier and Thomas. With so many other viable candidates, it would be a major shocker to see them select another Chiefs defensive player. In fact, Bronco fans might lose it and burn the HOF down at that point...lol...Especially if Floyd Little, Rich Jackson and Randy Gradishar are still sitting out there eligible at the time.
<< <i>Can anyone suggest some books regarding the NFL in the 20-40's? I recently finished Monster of the Midway about Bronko Nagurski and found it outstanding...Perkdog actually suggested it for me a while back. Its actually the first book I've read since high school. >>
Check out this forum Books - it's all about good books on the history of Pro Football. Also, for any Giants fans, I have some information about Giants books on another website Giants Wiki
Books about football history are sometimes a great way to find autographs at a reasonable price. Books dealers are not always on the same page about prices as the football collector - I picked up a book about Jim Thorpe that was signed by "Hunk" Anderson, Chuck Daley, Paddy Driscoll, Fred Gillies, Ed Healey, "Duke" Slater, and Wilfred Smith for about half what you'd expect to pay just for Slater. Also picked up a copy of What a Game They Played autographed by Morris Badgro, Sammy Baugh, Jim Benton, Tony Canadeo, Bill Dudley, Sid Luckman, Harry Newman, Ace Parker, and Glenn Presnell.
Column by Peter King yesterday about Class of 2010. After reading, look at page 107 of this thread and see my predictions:
Sunday February 01, 2009 11:49 AM (NEW!) Never to early to start projecting the Class of 2010 BTW...lol
1. Jerry Rice 2. Emmitt Smith 3. Richard Dent 4. Shannon Sharpe 5. Russ Grimm
Jason
Needless to day, I'm like the way King is thinking...lol
Peter King > MONDAY MORNING QB - TUESDA
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. -- With the Hall of Fame enshrinement done for 2009, let's spend a few paragraphs talking about the ballot for the Class of 2010. It'll be a starry class.
As one of the 44 selectors, I'm into the Hall process year-round, asking veteran club people on my training-camp tour about various candidates, and those thoughts, plus my memories of who was close in 2009, lead me to this prospective list.
We can elect five modern-era candidates, and two from a list that the Seniors Committee of the Hall selectors will cull down when they meet in Canton in two weeks. Since the last four classes have been six-man groups each year, I'm going to give you six for the Hall next winter -- five modern candidates and one from the Seniors list, even though I don't know who the two candidates from the Seniors list are going to be yet. I'm going to project, so let's start there:
• Dick LeBeau, cornerback, coach, defensive coordinator. The man's not going to be hotter than he is now, and it's time. I am projecting him to come out of the Seniors Committee vote this year. Maybe that's as much hope as anything else, because I believe strongly in LeBeau's candidacy. And it's also time that assistant coaches begin to get recognized for their massive influence on the modern game.
This is LeBeau's 51st season in the league as a player and coach. Only six players have more interceptions than his 62 career picks (he was a stalwart in a great Detroit backfield in the fifties and sixties), and he could be a strong Hall candidate on his playing days only. But add the fact that LeBeau invented the Zone Blitz in 1984 in Cincinnati, and multiple coaches have since used the odd scheme of dropping linemen into passing lanes and linebackers and backs to blitz. LeBeau has orchestrated the Steeler D into two Super Bowl titles in the past four years. Three times in the past five years Pittsburgh has had the top-ranked defense in the game.
As for the matter of LeBeau's poor record with the Bengals (12-36) in his only three years as a head coach, should three seasons tarnish the other 48? And could anyone have won in Cincinnati in the Klingler Era? Marv Levy, Hall of Famer, was 31-42 in five playoff-less years coaching Kansas City. Paul Brown: 55-56-1, with zero playoff wins, coaching the expansion Bengals ... Hank Stram: 7-21 in two years with the Saints. Let's get LeBeau in now.
Now for the five winners on the modern list:
• Jerry Rice, wide receiver. Next.
• Emmitt Smith, running back. Next. Everyone agrees Rice and Smith are locks, but there will be a fallout from their admission. It's two fewer spots for those who have been in line for some time.
• Richard Dent, defensive end. Averaged 10.3 sacks in 12 seasons with the Bears, and made their fierce front go. He had some tremendous big games -- as Super Bowl XX MVP, he had 1.5 sacks and two forced fumbles in the 46-10 win over New England. I thought he was going to get in last year; there was major momentum built up for him, the kind of momentum where, as a voter, one would say: If not this year, very soon. Now is very soon.
• Cris Carter, wide receiver. With 1,101 catches and 130 touchdowns, he should probably make it on his numbers alone, but this isn't baseball. The voters don't have a magic number for entry at any position. My argument on Carter has been he's the best boundary receiver (sidelines, end zone) I've seen, and that, combined with his production, is enough to propel him. However, I think it's entirely possible that Shannon Sharpe could jump Carter. It's also possible that Sharpe and Carter could both make it. They'll be strong candidates. But I'm going in a different direction on my fifth man for this class ...
• Russ Grimm, offensive line, line coach. We need a Hog in the Hall. This is one of the best offensive lines of all time, and quite possibly the best, and it should be represented in Canton. What's hurt Grimm over the years is his shelf life -- he started just 114 regular-season games (19 more in the playoffs) and played four full seasons due to injuries -- but when he played, he was a dominant force at guard and center. He was a gritty force in the best running game in football in the eighties. I hope this is his year.
Now, could the final man be Sharpe? Certainly. Could there be a surprise in the room, like John Randle sneaking in? Of course. Hall of Fame voting is like an NFL game weekend: always surprising.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm looking for a 1964 Philly of 49ers HOFer Jimmy Johnson. I need the card ASAP for an upcoming signing. Please let me know if anyone has one for sale.
Thanks! Reese
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that meeting room next year during the debates. With not one but two stone-cold locks (can you get bigger locks than Rice & E.Smith?), the available slots are more precious for those who have been passed over in previous years. Add that to this year's class where we had another 2 first-ballot guys with Woodson & Smith and then Ralph Wilson taking another, the backlog is just getting bigger. Personally, I prefer it that way rather than having the Hall let in guys who may be considered more marginal HOFers. Keeps the debates here more lively too.
Jasen C. has touched on something that I've been thinking and will expand upon: there are a number of football players above whom, upon name recognition and surface research, make me think "Really, that guy...a Pro Football Hall Of Fame Member?". Does (insert name) really belong to have a bust sculpted, name and likeness perpetually linked with the game's greats, and a physical place in Canton, Ohio forever? Can we write the history of the game without him?
That does not mean that some above players aren't worthy of honor. There are other ways to honor an influential player rather than permanent HOF enshrinement, such as: induction into a team HOF, retirement of a player number, or having a special theme night and promotion centered around a celebrated franchise player. All are high honor and decoration.
Please qualify the above - I do not purport to be an esteemed gridiron historian nor a student steeped in the mechanics and nuance of voting process as others are. My prevailing notion when it comes to sports Hall Of Fames is simply: "Keep It Exclusive. Keep It Special".
For a relative newcomer like me, is it an imposition to question if this thread the appropriate forum for continued speculation? Maybe it is, only a question. Starting a new speculative thread may serve best (or not).
There may very well be detractors to the above, and I can appreciate that. At the least, I hope this stimulates thought.
My latest and greatest pickup. Can't believe this only graded an 8.5. Looks flawless to me. I put a lowball bid on it and was suprised I won. Cant beat a PSA 8.5 HOF RC that 45 years old for less than $90 delivered.
This will probably be my last card for a while. My wife and I bought a lot to build on (just closed today). Hopefully my collection won't have to take a financial hit......
I just bought a PSA 7 1963 Topps Bob Lilly RC. It looks really sharp. As soon as I get it I will post a scan. I have been waiting to get this card for a good price for a while now.
That M olsen and arnie are screamers. Very nice. I have not checked in a while...but that olsen addition should get me passed on the list by dave. Gald it was a beauty that did it. congrats to to vince on a nice pu also.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Just threw this up on the main board too - just got poppage on this sweet 1/1 - thoughts on what it might go for?
17 1 15724513 GEM MINT 10 1980 TOPPS 195 LESTER HAYES Card US >>
If it just popped in the last couple fo days it will actually be a POP 2. One was graded PSA 10 earlier this year.
Jason >>
Really? Damn. Pop was 0 when I checked earlier this year, but its been a while. Pending sale, and let the guy know that it is likely NOT a 1/1 - he's still interested so that's good. Thanks for the info.
Pete
From talking to some others, I think the general consensus is that there wasn't much selection and the stuff that was available was overpriced. Hopefully the latter will change as the weekend goes on and some good deals can be had by those attending over the weekend (Pete, Vince...good luck!). Shout out to Scott & Dave, hopefully you guys were able to find some stuff.
They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought.
Jasen
There seems to be a total disconnect between the sellers of raw material versus those selling only graded material. Rick of Mint State has tremendous material including a 52 Large Ollie Matson RC PSA 8. Check him out
I saw 3 Nagurski's. 2 of them were PSA 4's and were not for sale. They were displayed as an auction preview. Mile High had one and Huggins and Scott had the other. The Mile High card looked like a very nice 4. The last Nagurski was raw and would grade no higher than a 2. It was for sale with an complete raw set listed for 11K.
JustCollect had a Very Nice PSA 6 Baugh for $975 and a PSA 7 Conerly with sticker price of $6.5K
The second PSA 10 Hutson was pulled and graded from the same cello hoard as the first one. (Mcaboube?) Rumor has it that Steve sold 2 55 cello's for 5K each and the Hutson 10, Rockne 10, and PSA 9 horseman was pulled. I would have to think that Hutson is a 20K card?
Saw the new 1/1 PSA 10 Lenny Moore at Rick's table (WOW!!)
I ended up buying 1 card. A 76 Lambert PSA 8 that upgrades my 7 for $25. A good deal until you add my $18 to get in the show, $8 for parking and $5 for a slice of Pizza......
Jasen.....Very nice finally meeting you and your very cute daughter.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought. >>
Jasen:
After the fiasco in Atlantic City in 2003, I don't think there's much of a shot having another National in a gambling town.
It was great meeting you and your daughter is a doll!!! Hope she had a blast on the Ferris Wheel and digging into the ice cream.
Some nice activity on Saturday and a few dealers loosened up on prices, but as I've said to a few, it seems that most raw cards are priced a grade high and then another 20% over retail. I was quite surprised about how many dealers were "firm" on their outrageous prices. The best was one guy that when I asked if he could work a discount if I picked a few hundred dollars worth of stuff replied "I could probably do around ten off." I dug through his material with slightly inflated stickers, but found a nice lot totaling $640.00. I asked if he could do $550.00 since I assumed it to be about $575 with a 10% discount. He looked at me and said the price was $630.00 and that he already took "ten off" and that was his bottom line price since he could sell these cards all day long in Virginia. I politely said I wasn't interested at that price and handed back the cards and thanked him for his time. He glared at me and I went on to the next table.
It's not quite as interesting as the counterfeit Jordan guy last year, but it just goes to show I should always make sure that I'm more specific when I ask in advance about possible discounts and never assume that ten off means $10.00 rather than 10%...
<< <i>After the fiasco in Atlantic City in 2003, I don't think there's much of a shot having another National in a gambling town. >>
What happened?
<< <i>They need to bring the National to Las Vegas....both dealers and collectors alike would flock here.....just a thought
Some nice activity on Saturday and a few dealers loosened up on prices, but as I've said to a few, it seems that most raw cards are priced a grade high and then another 20% over retail. I was quite surprised about how many dealers were "firm" on their outrageous prices. The best was one guy that when I asked if he could work a discount if I picked a few hundred dollars worth of stuff replied "I could probably do around ten off." I dug through his material with slightly inflated stickers, but found a nice lot totaling $640.00. I asked if he could do $550.00 since I assumed it to be about $575 with a 10% discount. He looked at me and said the price was $630.00 and that he already took "ten off" and that was his bottom line price since he could sell these cards all day long in Virginia. I politely said I wasn't interested at that price and handed back the cards and thanked him for his time. He glared at me and I went on to the next table.
<< <i>
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Scott
i told MAD this story after you and I talked, it was even funnier hearing it the second time! Cracked me up man.
And please pray tell about the nat'l at AC, inquiring minds want to know
1977 Topps Steve Largent PSA 9
1978 Topps Fred Dean PSA 9
1978 Topps John Stallworth PSA 9
thanks!
If I were him, I'd be trying to get my starting job back....
Vince Young's bold prediction: 'I will be in the Hall of Fame'
Backup Titans QB Vince Young is confident he'll be holding the Lombardi Trophy at some point
In remarks to Esquire, Young, lifted from the starting job in Week 1 last year, boldly predicted he'll regain the starting job and even achieve football immortality in Canton, Ohio.
"I don't know when I'll start again," he said to the magazine. "But I will be the next black quarterback to win a Super Bowl. And I will be in the Hall of Fame."
Young was the third overall pick of the 2006 draft. He started 29 games for the Titans in his first three years, with an 18-11 record. But veteran Kerry Collins supplanted him last year, and led the team to an NFL-best 18-11 record.
"Kerry Collins and I are good friends," Young told Esquire. "He's been through this, too, so he knows. He's teaching me about stocks and investments."
Titans coach Jeff Fisher has said he wants Young to reclaim the starting job at some point. But he also made clear that Collins is his starter for this season.
Young paid tribute to his mentor, former Titans QB Steve McNair, who was killed July 4 in what police say was a murder-suicide orchestrated by his girlfriend, Sahel Kazemi.
"It's hard to express in words how important Steve McNair is to me," Young told the magazine.
McNair is one of three black quarterbacks to have started a Super Bowl. Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb and Washington Doug Williams, who led the Redskins to a win in Super Bowl XXII, are the others.
Young said he is "in the best shape" of his life.
"I'm back to playing my game and not worrying about what everybody else thinks," he told the magazine. "That was my mistake: worrying too much about critics. I'm only twenty-six, man.
"If you think you can write me off, just watch."
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Funny stuff, man. I seem to remember similar stuff out of Trent Dilfer in his days with the Bucs, comparing himself to Elway and Marino. Ironically, of course, he did hoist the Lombardi trophy once more than Marino.
Jasen
<< <i>Dave,
Funny stuff, man. I seem to remember similar stuff out of Trent Dilfer in his days with the Bucs, comparing himself to Elway and Marino. Ironically, of course, he did hoist the Lombardi trophy once more than Marino.
Jasen >>
I believe Dilfer compared himself to Favre not those other two chumps.
For example, from April 23, 2009 until today, populations have changed from/to:
1935 Cliff Battles in PSA 8+ has gone from 26 to 28
1935 Clarke Hinkle in PSA 7 has gone from 29, 14 higher up to 30, 15 higher
1935 Bronko Nagurski in PSA 4 grade alone has gone from POP 11 to POP 14
1948 Leaf Sid Luckman above PSA 6 level has gone from POP 5 to POP 7
1948 Leaf Doak Walker in PSA 7 has gone from POP 16, 4 higher to POP 17, 6 higher
1948 Leaf Charlie Trippi PSA 7+has gone from a POP of 19 up to 22
1948 Leaf Bill Dudley PSA 7+ has gone from POP 25 to 28
1948 Leaf G. Connor above PSA 7 level has gone from POP 11 to POP 14
1951 Bowman Stautner in PSA 8 grade has gone from POP 40 to 43
There are other notables in the '60s, including Charley Taylor and Bob Brown rookies, that have seen POP surges at the high end.
Of course, populations are only going to rise for the most part. However, some of these cards are sixty and seventy-year-old antiquities and have seen population surges of 15% or more in just the last 100 days! Does anyone know why? Is it:
A) More people are crossing over to PSA (either from any other companies for the Registry, or out of nearly defunct GAI holders)?
C) Opening packs (I left '55 AAs out of the above due to their well-documented recent pack openings)?
D) Card owners that crack-and-resubmit a graded card, then carelessly toss their flips rather than sending them in so PSA can deduct one from the POP?
E) A few more people learning of PSA's existence hence more strictly raw submissions?
F) Relaxed grading standards?
G) Other?
H) Combinations of the above factors - then which factors?
I) Keith spent entirely too much time on this.
There's one factor that I would rule out - coincidence.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
<< <i>Jason,
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff
LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I like SGC cards, and only crossed this one over since it has PSA 8.5 potential.
As for the remarkable spike in the POP numbers for this set's high-end cards, I say its due to reasons A, B, and D above. That's only my guess and I'm not a collecting veteran; that's why I'm looking for others' input. In fact, the POP spike is even more dramatic - I only began tracking it from April because I noticed the trend prior to that.
Fantastic Hinkle keith, fantastic!
He also won the PSA 10 Billy Shaw
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff
LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff
LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Adams could get there eventually, but being honest how many AFL owners really deserve to be inducted? You've already got Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, and now Ralph Wilson...That's quite a representation IMO. HOF slots are sparse to begin with, and I'd much rather see a worthy player or coach get in. But, this 50th anniversary of the AFL is getting quite a bit of pub, so it might give him a rub in the next few voting sessions. Will be interesting to see if it has an affect on the senior voting in a few weeks.
I think you know my feelings on Nobis. For me, he's the best HOF eligible defensive player not in the HOF. But based on the fact that Humphrey was selected last year, I'd be shocked to see another Falcon in back-to-back years. I do think they will look to the LB's however. They haven't selected an LB since Wilcox and Buoniconti in 2000 and 2001. Dick LeBeau is also a strong possible. If he makes that list of 15 or so semifinalists, I think of anyone he could get the biggest push. He's deserving even based on his playing years alone, BUT much like John Madden, his extra curricular things could help..If they do look for an AFL guy, I think it would come down to Floyd Little and John Hadl.
We'll know by the end of the month!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Jason,
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
No extra LeBeau's here, sorry. Also, after hearing who the 5 senior committee voters going to the HOF to select the finalists this year were going to be, it pretty much guarantees that you won't see any pre-war selections. I mean never say never, but it is the younger crew headed to Canton at the end of the month, which another reason I really like Gradishar's chances...
Not to mention there are a whopping 39 signatures on Wistert's HOF petition..Honestly, I hope no one sends that to any of the voters as a reason they should select him. If they do, he will NEVER get in...lol...There are a few senior candidates with literally THOUSANDS of signatures on petitions pushing them for the HOF...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
Do you have any insight into which senior candidates will be nominated at the end of the month?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not yet, the semifinal list of 15-17 has not been completed and published. Should be out next week though. I haven't heard any grumblings as to specific "favorites" like I did Bob Hayes from last year. Once the semifinal list is released, the selections will come down to the 5 voters going to Canton. I know one of them pretty well so I'm hoping to get some updates after the first meeting and maybe have an idea. Will only be a day or two lead time though unlike last year when I named Bob Hayes a couple of months before the selection...
When i get the list of semifinalists i will post here.
My guesses right now, and this is not based on anything factual or rumor, just my guesses.
It will be an Offensive Lineman and a Linebacker. Of those, I think it will be between:
OL-Jerry Kramer, Bob Kuechenberg and Mick Tingelhoff
LB- Randy Gradishar and Dave Robinson
I base these guesses on historic trends (teams, positions, etc) and knowing who the 5 voters going to Canton are. Also, it will not be TWO Packers. So if Kramer gets selected, then Robinson won't and vice versa. I don't think we will see any Pre-1950's guys simple because its the more "modern" voters going this year. Lastly, there could very well be a push for an AFL guy, just based on this being the 50th anniversary, Ralph Wilson going in, all that. Would need to see the list of semifinists first to see what AFLers are even in the conversation.
Jason >>
Thanks for your insight Jason. It doesn't seem that any one player has significant momentum leading up to the semi-finalist vote. I would love to see Al Wistert nominated; but that has been said many times before. I would love to see Kooch nominated, however he didn't garner much support in the past 2 or 3 years prior to being moved to the Senior ballot. Then again, there has been quite a bit of competition the past several years w/ Hickerson, Zimmerman, McDaniel, ect... I would love to see Tingelhoff or Wistert be the offensive finalist and Nobis as the defensive candidate. It would be nice for the Falcons to finally have a player inducted and Nobis should be the nod against Humphrey (considering Humphrey didn't garner enough last year on the final vote).
I don't that you don't follow the candidacy of non-players very closely; however I'm perplexed why there hasn't been a bigger push for Bud Adams to be nominated. He is the sole surviving original AFL owner not in the HOF (now that Ralph Wilson has been inducted...).
It should be interesting...
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Adams could get there eventually, but being honest how many AFL owners really deserve to be inducted? You've already got Lamar Hunt, Al Davis, and now Ralph Wilson...That's quite a representation IMO. HOF slots are sparse to begin with, and I'd much rather see a worthy player or coach get in. But, this 50th anniversary of the AFL is getting quite a bit of pub, so it might give him a rub in the next few voting sessions. Will be interesting to see if it has an affect on the senior voting in a few weeks.
I think you know my feelings on Nobis. For me, he's the best HOF eligible defensive player not in the HOF. But based on the fact that Humphrey was selected last year, I'd be shocked to see another Falcon in back-to-back years. I do think they will look to the LB's however. They haven't selected an LB since Wilcox and Buoniconti in 2000 and 2001. Dick LeBeau is also a strong possible. If he makes that list of 15 or so semifinalists, I think of anyone he could get the biggest push. He's deserving even based on his playing years alone, BUT much like John Madden, his extra curricular things could help..If they do look for an AFL guy, I think it would come down to Floyd Little and John Hadl.
We'll know by the end of the month!
Jason >>
I'd love to see LeBeau make it in, great player and coach.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
Good point about LeBeau. With the Steelers winning another Super Bowl under his tutelage, he may one of the finalists. As much as I'd love to see Hadl in the HOF, I hope that Wistert is the second finalist while he is still able to savor the honor!!
Now all I have to do is find a nice PSA 8 LeBeau rc...do you have an extra for sale?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
No extra LeBeau's here, sorry. Also, after hearing who the 5 senior committee voters going to the HOF to select the finalists this year were going to be, it pretty much guarantees that you won't see any pre-war selections. I mean never say never, but it is the younger crew headed to Canton at the end of the month, which another reason I really like Gradishar's chances...
Not to mention there are a whopping 39 signatures on Wistert's HOF petition..Honestly, I hope no one sends that to any of the voters as a reason they should select him. If they do, he will NEVER get in...lol...There are a few senior candidates with literally THOUSANDS of signatures on petitions pushing them for the HOF...
Jason >>
I can only imagine how many signatures must be on Jerry Kramers petition. If not I am sure one could get a few thousand a day.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
greg......I sold Michael Moore about 4-5 Lebeau's last year. Maybe he still has them.
I still have 2 extra that are absolute screamers. They need to get back to psa...so I'll probably join again. I don't have all that much to sub....so at the new price it might not be worth it to me.
They will be 8.5's or higher for sure and will make them available to they guys here when I get them back.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>it is about time that Johnny Robinson got in. I know I am biased, but he should be in. >>
Agreed..Unfortunately, Emmitt Thomas took his spot somehow ( I still don't get it). If Robinson EVER gets in at this point, I would have to think very distant future, like 10+ years. That Chiefs Defense from the late 60s early 70s is already represented by Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier and Thomas. With so many other viable candidates, it would be a major shocker to see them select another Chiefs defensive player. In fact, Bronco fans might lose it and burn the HOF down at that point...lol...Especially if Floyd Little, Rich Jackson and Randy Gradishar are still sitting out there eligible at the time.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I've also been watching alot of things on the NFL network that show some old footage. I watched the history of the packers today and "reunion at Canton" yesterday. Very good...
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FYI..I heard today that Rod Woodson was really pushing Dick LeBeau to the senior committee guys this past weekend. I know he mentioned him in his speech, but he was really campaigning hard offline as well. If LeBeau makes the semifinal list as he has the past couple of years, he could really be one of the guys this year. He'd probably knock out Gradishar and continue the plight of the overlooked LBs...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>That History of the Packers show is a good watch. They also have them for the Browns, Cowboys and Raiders that I have seem. Of course none of those franchises can go back as far as the Pack...
FYI..I heard today that Rod Woodson was really pushing Dick LeBeau to the senior committee guys this past weekend. I know he mentioned him in his speech, but he was really campaigning hard offline as well. If LeBeau makes the semifinal list as he has the past couple of years, he could really be one of the guys this year. He'd probably knock out Gradishar and continue the plight of the overlooked LBs...lol
Jason >>
thats right, not to many go as far back as the pack. in fact today is their 90th Bday!!!! Go PACK Go.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Can anyone suggest some books regarding the NFL in the 20-40's? I recently finished Monster of the Midway about Bronko Nagurski and found it outstanding...Perkdog actually suggested it for me a while back. Its actually the first book I've read since high school.
I've also been watching alot of things on the NFL network that show some old footage. I watched the history of the packers today and "reunion at Canton" yesterday. Very good...
Dave >>
Dave,
I am an avid reader of this era of football. My favorite one is called "What a game they played" by Roger Whittingham
Book
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
<< <i>
<< <i>it is about time that Johnny Robinson got in. I know I am biased, but he should be in. >>
Agreed..Unfortunately, Emmitt Thomas took his spot somehow ( I still don't get it). If Robinson EVER gets in at this point, I would have to think very distant future, like 10+ years. That Chiefs Defense from the late 60s early 70s is already represented by Bobby Bell, Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier and Thomas. With so many other viable candidates, it would be a major shocker to see them select another Chiefs defensive player. In fact, Bronco fans might lose it and burn the HOF down at that point...lol...Especially if Floyd Little, Rich Jackson and Randy Gradishar are still sitting out there eligible at the time.
Jason >>
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/GPG0101/908110416&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
Doc
<< <i>Can anyone suggest some books regarding the NFL in the 20-40's? I recently finished Monster of the Midway about Bronko Nagurski and found it outstanding...Perkdog actually suggested it for me a while back. Its actually the first book I've read since high school. >>
Check out this forum Books - it's all about good books on the history of Pro Football. Also, for any Giants fans, I have some information about Giants books on another website Giants Wiki
Books about football history are sometimes a great way to find autographs at a reasonable price. Books dealers are not always on the same page about prices as the football collector - I picked up a book about Jim Thorpe that was signed by "Hunk" Anderson, Chuck Daley, Paddy Driscoll, Fred Gillies, Ed Healey, "Duke" Slater, and Wilfred Smith for about half what you'd expect to pay just for Slater. Also picked up a copy of What a Game They Played autographed by Morris Badgro, Sammy Baugh, Jim Benton, Tony Canadeo, Bill Dudley, Sid Luckman, Harry Newman, Ace Parker, and Glenn Presnell.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Sunday February 01, 2009 11:49 AM (NEW!)
Never to early to start projecting the Class of 2010 BTW...lol
1. Jerry Rice
2. Emmitt Smith
3. Richard Dent
4. Shannon Sharpe
5. Russ Grimm
Jason
Needless to day, I'm like the way King is thinking...lol
Peter King >
MONDAY MORNING QB - TUESDA
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. -- With the Hall of Fame enshrinement done for 2009, let's spend a few paragraphs talking about the ballot for the Class of 2010. It'll be a starry class.
As one of the 44 selectors, I'm into the Hall process year-round, asking veteran club people on my training-camp tour about various candidates, and those thoughts, plus my memories of who was close in 2009, lead me to this prospective list.
We can elect five modern-era candidates, and two from a list that the Seniors Committee of the Hall selectors will cull down when they meet in Canton in two weeks. Since the last four classes have been six-man groups each year, I'm going to give you six for the Hall next winter -- five modern candidates and one from the Seniors list, even though I don't know who the two candidates from the Seniors list are going to be yet. I'm going to project, so let's start there:
• Dick LeBeau, cornerback, coach, defensive coordinator.
The man's not going to be hotter than he is now, and it's time. I am projecting him to come out of the Seniors Committee vote this year. Maybe that's as much hope as anything else, because I believe strongly in LeBeau's candidacy. And it's also time that assistant coaches begin to get recognized for their massive influence on the modern game.
This is LeBeau's 51st season in the league as a player and coach. Only six players have more interceptions than his 62 career picks (he was a stalwart in a great Detroit backfield in the fifties and sixties), and he could be a strong Hall candidate on his playing days only. But add the fact that LeBeau invented the Zone Blitz in 1984 in Cincinnati, and multiple coaches have since used the odd scheme of dropping linemen into passing lanes and linebackers and backs to blitz. LeBeau has orchestrated the Steeler D into two Super Bowl titles in the past four years. Three times in the past five years Pittsburgh has had the top-ranked defense in the game.
As for the matter of LeBeau's poor record with the Bengals (12-36) in his only three years as a head coach, should three seasons tarnish the other 48? And could anyone have won in Cincinnati in the Klingler Era? Marv Levy, Hall of Famer, was 31-42 in five playoff-less years coaching Kansas City. Paul Brown: 55-56-1, with zero playoff wins, coaching the expansion Bengals ... Hank Stram: 7-21 in two years with the Saints. Let's get LeBeau in now.
Now for the five winners on the modern list:
• Jerry Rice, wide receiver.
Next.
• Emmitt Smith, running back.
Next. Everyone agrees Rice and Smith are locks, but there will be a fallout from their admission. It's two fewer spots for those who have been in line for some time.
• Richard Dent, defensive end.
Averaged 10.3 sacks in 12 seasons with the Bears, and made their fierce front go. He had some tremendous big games -- as Super Bowl XX MVP, he had 1.5 sacks and two forced fumbles in the 46-10 win over New England. I thought he was going to get in last year; there was major momentum built up for him, the kind of momentum where, as a voter, one would say: If not this year, very soon. Now is very soon.
• Cris Carter, wide receiver.
With 1,101 catches and 130 touchdowns, he should probably make it on his numbers alone, but this isn't baseball. The voters don't have a magic number for entry at any position. My argument on Carter has been he's the best boundary receiver (sidelines, end zone) I've seen, and that, combined with his production, is enough to propel him. However, I think it's entirely possible that Shannon Sharpe could jump Carter. It's also possible that Sharpe and Carter could both make it. They'll be strong candidates. But I'm going in a different direction on my fifth man for this class ...
• Russ Grimm, offensive line, line coach. We need a Hog in the Hall. This is one of the best offensive lines of all time, and quite possibly the best, and it should be represented in Canton. What's hurt Grimm over the years is his shelf life -- he started just 114 regular-season games (19 more in the playoffs) and played four full seasons due to injuries -- but when he played, he was a dominant force at guard and center. He was a gritty force in the best running game in football in the eighties. I hope this is his year.
Now, could the final man be Sharpe? Certainly. Could there be a surprise in the room, like John Randle sneaking in? Of course. Hall of Fame voting is like an NFL game weekend: always surprising.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Dave,
I am an avid reader of this era of football. My favorite one is called "What a game they played" by Roger Whittingham
Book
>>
I just placed my order. You can't beat $4 shipped....
Thanks again,
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Thanks!
Reese
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Jasen
That does not mean that some above players aren't worthy of honor. There are other ways to honor an influential player rather than permanent HOF enshrinement, such as: induction into a team HOF, retirement of a player number, or having a special theme night and promotion centered around a celebrated franchise player. All are high honor and decoration.
Please qualify the above - I do not purport to be an esteemed gridiron historian nor a student steeped in the mechanics and nuance of voting process as others are. My prevailing notion when it comes to sports Hall Of Fames is simply: "Keep It Exclusive. Keep It Special".
For a relative newcomer like me, is it an imposition to question if this thread the appropriate forum for continued speculation? Maybe it is, only a question. Starting a new speculative thread may serve best (or not).
There may very well be detractors to the above, and I can appreciate that. At the least, I hope this stimulates thought.
"Keep It Exclusive. Keep It Special."
Go Pack Go!
This will probably be my last card for a while. My wife and I bought a lot to build on (just closed today). Hopefully my collection won't have to take a financial hit......
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!