<< <i>And, uh...I just bought a large Stydahar 7, so, um....I think we need to keep him.
Jasen >>
Stydahar was a HOF caliber player. 5-time 1st team All-Pro, who also happened to be a head coach not long after he retired in 1946. His 52 Bowman card is unique in that he never had a card produced during his playing years 1936-1946, but did have a card issued during his coaching years with the Rams 1950-1952. The card(s) Large and Small, are also officially recognized as rookie cards by the "all important" (according to PSA) Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia, so he will not be removed or changed. In fact PSA wouldn't even send out a poll on it if someone were to request removal. At least that's what I've been told. There will be NO changes to any of the CURRENTLY listed cards/players on the set. Had a long discussion with BJ and Gayle after that either/or was added for the 1950 Topps Felt Back Stamps(they aren't cards, sorry..lol) of Stautner and Creekmur.
Does that mean someone couldn't request a NEW addition, such as Halas? Absolutely not, only covers players/cards already on the set. But I would think if a poll went out requesting to add Halas to a players set, it would be a slam dunk no-go after the votes came in..And I own the Halas card BTW, its listed on my HOF Bears set...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I certainly don't think it's unique to Halas, there are many other examples of players who were not HOF-caliber as players but became HOF coaches (Tom Landry, Tony Dungy, Ken Whisenhunt, etc). I don't think we should add any of these guys, and although I think it would be pretty one-sided if put to a vote, this is a democracy, right?
Makes *some* sense, but I still dont understand why he is listed in the position category as an end. I would think that if he is stricly inducted as a coach that he wouldn't be listed along the other HOF "ends"? Not every HOFer that has ever played is listed at the position they played in. Jim Finks is listed as a contributor. He also played, but is not listed at his position?
Along the same logic, Lets look at Steve Owen. On his bio page, it lists that he is inducted as a Coach and Tackle. Does this mean he was inducted as a player?
<< <i>there are many other examples of players who were not HOF-caliber as players but became HOF coaches (Tom Landry, Tony Dungy, Ken Whisenhunt, etc). >>
<< <i><< there are many other examples of players who were not HOF-caliber as players but became HOF coaches (Tom Landry, Tony Dungy, Ken Whisenhunt, etc). >>
>>
I'll let Whisenhunt slide since you added Dungy....
Along the same logic, Lets look at Steve Owen. On his bio page, it lists that he is inducted as a Coach and Tackle. Does this mean he was inducted as a player?
Dave >>
Would be a better argument than Halas, that's for sure. He was at LEAST a 1st Team All-Pro once. But again, would he have been elected as a player, had he not been the head coach of the Giants for 24 years? Debatable...
I beleive we actually discussed Owen when we initially started this set and the popular sentiment was that no, he would not have made the HOF based soldely on his playing, but again, it is debatable...
The thing i understand the least is that at a minimum of once a year, someone wants to re-invent the wheel on this set. It's been live for 6+ years now..All of a sudden we are uncovering players and/or cards that belong that somehoedidn;t belong over the past 6+ years? It really doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess in the doldrums of the off-season we can be easily disuaded by an overactive imagination.
As a sniff test, read his actually HOF Bio and see if it reads as if he was a HOF caliber PLAYER.
""To call Steve Owen a pioneer is not an overstatement. The sturdy tackle and head coach was born in Oklahoma before it was a state – it was still a territory in 1898. From little Phillips, a small Oklahoma college, Steve began his pro football career in 1924 with the Kansas City Blues (later Cowboys), a traveling team that played all their games on the road.
After a brief stay with the Cleveland Bulldogs, he was sold to the New York Giants in 1926 for $500. Owen played seven seasons with the Giants, 1926-1931 and 1933. In 1930, he was both a player and the team’s co-coach. Although he continued to play, he was named the sole head coach in 1931.
Then, in 1933, he stopped playing and devoted all his efforts to coaching. Owen and the Mara family, who owned the Giants never had a contract. He coached 23 years, 1930-1953, on just a handshake. Stout Steve Owen believed in basic fundamental football, and he was successful with his basic style. His real strength was in coaching defense.
Under his tutelage, the Giants played in eight of the first 14 championship games of the National Football League. The team’s victory in the 1934 “Sneakers Game” is well documented. He coached the Giants to another title in 1938. He originated the “umbrella defense” – the secondary was likened to an umbrella with four deep defensive backs representing the umbrella’s spokes.
The spokes include future Hall of Famers Emlen Tunnell and Tom Landry. He successfully used this defense to contain the powerful pass-oriented Cleveland Browns when they joined the NFL in 1950. Owen left the Giants following the 1953 season, but before he did he developed some of the greatest players and toughest teams in history. His 155 career victories attest to his success.""
If after reading it you still think he belongs on the HOF Rookie Player set, by all means make the request to PSA. Again, I don't think the voting will even be close. He's in the HOF because of his coaching and innovations on defense as a coach. Take that away and there are 10 guys not in tthe HOF from his era who would have been elected before him.If he were truly worthy, wouldn;t we have added him to the set before now? Not one player in the HOF was overlooked or any stone unturned. Every guy in there has been disected in every way imaginable, and if he was a HOF caliber player, he would have been on the set long ago.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>The thing i understand the least is that at a minimum of once a year, someone wants to re-invent the wheel on this set. It's been live for 6+ years now..All of a sudden we are uncovering players and/or cards that belong that somehoedidn;t belong over the past 6+ years? It really doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess in the doldrums of the off-season we can be easily disuaded by an overactive imagination. >>
Don't get your panties in a bunch Jason...... I just happened to notice that Owen and Halas were listed as players and assumed they were inducted (at least partially) as players. If they are inducted as players, then their cards belong in the set. Are you saying that this set was put together so well in the beginning that there may never be changes? If the whole world worked like that, I'd still be driving a model T....
Don't get your panties in a bunch Jason...... I just happened to notice that Owen and Halas were listed as players and assumed they were inducted (at least partially) as players. If they are inducted as players, then their cards belong in the set. Are you saying that this set was put together so well in the beginning that there may never be changes? If the whole world worked like that, I'd still be driving a model T....
Dave >>
Dave, just giving my opinion that's all.
Never been changes? There already have been changes. Its been 6+ years, we've seen the addition of the USFL cards to the set, we've seen the back and forth between allowing 1952 Bowman Large and/or Small, we've seen the and/or added for Creekmur and Stautner cards. But if the question is have we overlooked HOF Players for the last 6 years this set has been listed? They answer is clearly no.
Again, if you think they should be added, by all means send the request to PSA. If the majority of collectors think 2 guys who were elected to the HOF primarily (if not entirely) as coaches belong in the set then they will vote them on to the set. Pretty simple. Neither you nor I have the authority to make that final decision. We can give opinions on how our own votes will be cast, but in the end majority will rule.
You asked for opinions or objections, I've stated mine. If you didn't want them you could have just blindly sent the request to PSA and or simply stated your opinion and not ask for others.
You just visited the HOF, how were Halas and owen represented there? As a player or as a coach? They are HOF coaches who were very good players. This set in particular is a collection of the greatest players. If I want to collect the coaches and contributers I will collect the HOF Player/Coach/Admin set rather than the rookie PLAYERS set.
There is absolutely no argument you can make for Halas being a HOF caliber player. Zero. You could debate Owen, but IMO, his innovations as a 20+ year coach of the Giants is the reason he is in the HOF, so I would not vote to add him to a player set. But if you did some research on him, you could probably at least come up with a good argument for him being a marginal/borderline HOF caliber player.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That's fine, I respect your opinion but keep in mind that 90% of the collectors that read this thread didn't have anything to do with the oringial making of the set. Others may think it's interesting that the HOF website lists Owen as a player, yet he isn't in the set....
And no, I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel", but when I see something like this, I question whether our set in truly complete. I'm sure we both want the set to be as good as possible....
<< <i>That's fine, I respect your opinion but keep in mind that 90% of the collectors that read this thread didn't have anything to do with the oringial making of the set. Others may think it's interesting that the HOF website lists Owen as a player, yet he isn't in the set....
And no, I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel", but when I see something like this, I question whether our set in truly complete. I'm sure we both want the set to be as good as possible....
Sorry I brought it up... Dave >>
No need to apologize. It's nice to be discussing football again actually...lol
To me this is no different than arguing if we should add some of the older HOFers that don't have rookie cards like (Paddy) Driscoll or Arnie Herber and simply using like 1991 Enor as their rookie card. Or arguing if George Blanda is an All-Time great QB. I mean he's listed as a QB right? On his HOF bio page as well as on the HOF positions page.
But again, for me you have to take the common sense approach. Look at Blanda's QB stats and ask if he would have been inducted into the HOF because of his performance as a QB? I mean he had ok stats, but would you honestly think he would have made the HOF if he hadn't retired as the all-time points leader and had played in the league for 26 years. He was elected PRIMARILY for that, and secondarily as a QB. And for me, this set is all about using the PRIMARY players and PRIMARY cards. If we start adding secondary players, we might as well start adding secondary cards such as the 1991 Enor, or the 1948 Bowman Sammy Baugh, or any number of 1989 Barry Sanders rookies. Oh that's right, we already have that set. The HOF Player/Coach/Admin set which allows the use of ANY card you want.
My vote would be to keep the HOF Rookie Player set to guys who were elected PRIMARILY for what they did on the field ONLY. and to keep the cards as the PRIMARY rookie cards of each of those players.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Anyone interested in a PSA 9 '70 Bethea? If so, shoot me a PM.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
When I get home from work I'll send you a list of what I got, I know I have a '61 Henry Jordan PSA 6 and a '66 Bob Brown PSA 8oc and a bunch of PSA 8's from the HOF Future set.
I've got a few card available to trade (or possibly sell) if anyone is interested. Here's what I have:
HOFers: 1950 BOWMAN 35 JOE PERRY 8.5 1950 BOWMAN 6 LOU GROZA 8.5 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 140 YALE LARY 8 1952 BOWMAN SMALL 57 WAYNE MILLNER 8 1955 BOWMAN 14 LEN FORD 8.5 1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN 66 BRUISER KINARD 8.5 1956 TOPPS 47 BILL GEORGE 8 1959 TOPPS 140 BOBBY MITCHELL 9 1960 FLEER 118 RON MIX 9 1961 FLEER 197 JIM OTTO 9 1961 FLEER 215 DON MAYNARD 9 1963 FLEER 10 NICK BUONICONTI 8.5 1963 TOPPS 155 LARRY WILSON 8.5 1964 PHILADELPHIA 161 JIM JOHNSON 9 1964 PHILADELPHIA 3 JOHN MACKEY 9 1964 PHILADELPHIA 71 HERB ADDERLY 9 1964 PHILADELPHIA 72 WILLIE DAVIS 9 1964 TOPPS 92 BUCK BUCHANAN 8.5 1965 PHILADELPHIA 105 CARL ELLER 9 1965 PHILADELPHIA 195 CHARLEY TAYLOR 9 1965 PHILADELPHIA 41 PAUL WARFIELD 8.5 1966 PHILADELPHIA 45 GENE HICKERSON 9 1967 PHILADELPHIA 178 DAVE WILCOX 9 1972 TOPPS 240 LARRY LITTLE 9 1973 TOPPS 341 JIM LANGER 10
NON-HOFers: 1955 BOWMAN 81 BILLY WILSON 7 1961 FLEER 202 JOHNNY ROBINSON 9 1989 SCORE 72 CRIS CARTER 10 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE 38 JUNIOR SEAU 9 1994 PLAYOFF 300 LARRY ALLEN 9 1996 SP 7 TERRELL OWENS 10
Here is what I'm looking for in trade (or possible buy):
HOFers: 1935 NATIONAL CHICLE 1 DUTCH CLARK 7 1935 NATIONAL CHICLE 34 BRONKO NAGURSKI 5-7 1948 LEAF 1 SID LUCKMAN YELLOW BACKGROUND 7 1948 LEAF 52 LEO NOMELLINI BLUE BACKGROUND, MAROON JERSEY 7 1948 LEAF 54 CHUCK BEDNARIK YELLOW BACKGROUND 6-7 1948 LEAF 6 BOBBY LAYNE YELLOW PANTS, ERR.BOBBIE 7 1950 BOWMAN 6 LOU GROZA 8 1950 BOWMAN 35 JOE PERRY 8 1952 BOWMAN 48 GEORGE HALAS 8 1952 BOWMAN 14 PAUL BROWN 8 1952 BOWMAN 99 JOE STYDAHAR 8 1955 BOWMAN 14 LEN FORD 8 1957 TOPPS 138 JOHN UNITAS 8 1961 FLEER 215 DON MAYNARD 8 1963 FLEER 10 NICK BUONICONTI 8 1963 FLEER 47 LEN DAWSON 8 1971 TOPPS 188 ROGER WEHRLI 9 1981 TOPPS 316 DAN HAMPTON 10 1982 TOPPS 486 RONNIE LOTT ALL-PRO 10 1984 TOPPS USFL 36 JIM KELLY 10 1984 TOPPS USFL 52 STEVE YOUNG 10 1984 TOPPS USFL 58 REGGIE WHITE 10 1986 TOPPS 389 BRUCE SMITH 10
NON-HOFers: 1948 LEAF 28 WHITEY WISTERT YELLOW JERSEY 6-7 1948 LEAF 53 CHARLEY CONERLY 6-7 1959 TOPPS 103 ALEX KARRAS 8 1961 FLEER 202 JOHNNY ROBINSON 8 1964 TOPPS 108 JIM TYRER 8 1967 PHILADELPHIA 183 CHRIS HANBURGER 8 1970 TOPPS 95 RICH JACKSON 9 1971 TOPPS 121 GARO YEPREMIAN 9 1984 TOPPS 222 JIM COVERT 10 1985 TOPPS 24 RICHARD DENT ALL PRO 10 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE 39 CORTEZ KENNEDY 10 1993 SP 6 JEROME BETTIS FOIL 10 1997 SP AUTHENTIC 6 WALTER JONES 9-10 1997 SP AUTHENTIC 116 JASON TAYLOR 10 1999 SP AUTHENTIC 111 CHAMP BAILEY 9-10 2000 FLEER 356 JANIKOWSKI/LECHLER 10 2002 UPPER DECK XL 362 ALAN FANECA 10
Shoot me a PM or e-mail at jabeduco@yahoo.com if interested in doing something.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bad situation, he suddenly quits after the 05 season and he has had nothing but off field issues.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
What are L. O'Neal's chances of getting inducted? He finished w/ 132 sacks and from what I remember he wasn't a liability against the run. Any opinions? Thanks
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
What would this have to do with his HOF status? He's not getting in because he got busted years after his retirement? Not sure I understand how that would play any part.
He got busted (and suspended) for drugs while he was still playing..So have a bunch of guys, to include performance enhancing drugs. Based on how the football HOF committee votes, none of that will ever be the SOLE reason a guy doesn't make the HOF.
We will do a vote to add new players and/or subtract players from the set in Januaray, just as we do every year. If you want Smith removed, that will be the time to make your vote known. There were a couple of votes to remove him last year, but no where close to 50%. I'd like to see At-water come off the list first since he's been a candidate for 5+ years now and can;t even make the semi-finals. If the same happens to Smith when he gets on the ballot, and he doesn;t evenmake the top 25 for 5+ years then I would vote to remove him. Other than that, there's nothing he could no now short of a terrorist attack or assassination that would make him less worthy than he was when we voted him on.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
What would this have to do with his HOF status? He's not getting in because he got busted years after his retirement? Not sure I understand how that would play any part.
He got busted (and suspended) for drugs while he was still playing..So have a bunch of guys, to include performance enhancing drugs. Based on how the football HOF committee votes, none of that will ever be the SOLE reason a guy doesn't make the HOF.
We will do a vote to add new players and/or subtract players from the set in Januaray, just as we do every year. If you want Smith removed, that will be the time to make your vote known. There were a couple of votes to remove him last year, but no where close to 50%. I'd like to see At-water come off the list first since he's been a candidate for 5+ years now and can;t even make the semi-finals. If the same happens to Smith when he gets on the ballot, and he doesn;t evenmake the top 25 for 5+ years then I would vote to remove him. Other than that, there's nothing he could no now short of a terrorist attack or assassination that would make him less worthy than he was when we voted him on.
Jason >>
While a sad situation, I agree it shouldn't keep him out of the Hall.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>What are L. O'Neal's chances of getting inducted? He finished w/ 132 sacks and from what I remember he wasn't a liability against the run. Any opinions? Thanks >>
IMO, his chances aren't good. He was a very good player no doubt, but 132 sacks leaves him behind non HOFers Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, John Randle and Kevin Greene.
Also, while he had 6 Pro Bowls, but was never a first team all-pro..Which means he was never one of the top 2 DE's in the league during his career.
He's been on the ballot now for 5 years and hasn't even made the top 25.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That's my old Connor 6, the one I just used in the deal to get the Connor 7. It's nice, but couldn't get it to bump. Tried twice.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, I was just seeing how long it would take you to respond....LOL.. >>
Well, since that story actually broke yesterday, it's already old news. I didn't think it had anything to do with the HOF RC set, so I didn't post anything here about..
I guess we can take Marvin Harrison off the set too since HE SHOT SOMEONE (allegedly) !!!!!!!!! ...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>What are L. O'Neal's chances of getting inducted? He finished w/ 132 sacks and from what I remember he wasn't a liability against the run. Any opinions? Thanks >>
IMO, his chances aren't good. He was a very good player no doubt, but 132 sacks leaves him behind non HOFers Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, John Randle and Kevin Greene.
Also, while he had 6 Pro Bowls, but was never a first team all-pro..Which means he was never one of the top 2 DE's in the league during his career.
He's been on the ballot now for 5 years and hasn't even made the top 25.
Jason >>
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White. >>
This a good point, and I know the HOF committee has consider those issues in the past as well...I just haven't seen any support for him from the voters, and with a bunch other pass rushers ahead of him, a couple of which (Doleman and Greene) will probably have a long time to wait...I don't see where he'll ever fit in..Not to mention Michael Strahan comes into the mix in a few years...You can also throw in Charles Haley ahead of him who has also gotten strong support, making the final 25 in 4 of the last 5 years...
So I guess the question is, will 7 (O'Neal would be the 7th) pass rushers make the HOF within the next 15 years (that's how many years O'Neal has left on the ballot)? Not impossible I guess, but I would say the longest of long shots.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White. >>
This a good point, and I know the HOF committee has consider those issues in the past as well...I just haven't seen any support for him from the voters, and with a bunch other pass rushers ahead of him, a couple of which (Doleman and Greene) will probably have a long time to wait...I don't see where he'll ever fit in..Not to mention Michael Strahan comes into the mix in a few years...You can also throw in Charles Haley ahead of him who has also gotten strong support, making the final 25 in 4 of the last 5 years...
So I guess the question is, will 7 (O'Neal would be the 7th) pass rushers make the HOF within the next 15 years (that's how many years O'Neal has left on the ballot)? Not impossible I guess, but I would say the longest of long shots.
Jason >>
You make a very convincing argument, and you are probably right that he will not make it in the next 15 yrs w/ those other players ahead of him. IMO he had a HOF career but I'd like to see those DE's make it in first.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I have some extra HOF RC's and RC's for other football key card sets for sale. Everything that dosen't have a price next to it is $5.00 ... Shipping for the first item is $2.00 with no charge for additional items.
1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson #42 PSA 5 $7 1957 Topps Pete Retzlaff #2 PSA 5 1960 Fleer Abner Haynes #73 PSA 6 SOLD 1961 Fleer Goose Gonsoulin #152 PSA 9oc $10 1961 Topps Henry Jordan #45 PSA 6 $10 SOLD 1964 Topps Dave Grayson #97 PSA 8 $15 SOLD 1964 Topps Jim Tyrer #108 PSA 6st 1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer PSA 6 $10 1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown PSA 8oc $10 1971 Topps Jake Scott #211 PSA 7 1974 Topps Joe DeLamielleure #183 PSA 7 $8 1974 TOPPS WALLY CHAMBERS #474 PSA 9 $15 1975 Topps Curley Culp #297 PSA 9 $10 1976 Topps Ron Jaworski #426 PSA 7 1977 Topps Vince Papale #397 PSA 8 $10 SOLD 1977 Topps Seahawks Checklist #226 PSA 8 $10 1977 TOPPS SUPER BOWL XI #528 PSA 8 1980 Topps John Smith #291 PSA 9 1981 Topps Billy Sims #100 PSA 8 1983 Topps Otis Wilson #41 PSA 8 1983 Topps Dexter Manley #191 PSA 8 1984 Topps Dwight Stephenson #129 PSA 8 1985 Topps Joe Morris #120 PSA 7 $3 1987 Topps Leslie O'Neal #347 PSA 9 $8 1989 Score Sterling Sharpe #333S PSA 8 1989 Score Eric Allen #380S PSA 8 1990 Action Packed Shannon Sharpe #46 PSA 8 1992 All-World Desmond Howard #15 PSA 8 1994 Bowman Kevin Mawae #135 PSA 8 1995 PACIFIC JAMES WILLIAMS #216 PSA 8 1995 SP Warren Sapp #99 PSA 8 1995 SP Derrick Brooks #103 PSA 8 1996 SP Keyshawn Johnson #1 PSA 8.5 1996 SP Simeon Rice #3 PSA 8 1996 SP Eddie George #5 PSA 8 $8 1996 SP TERRELL OWENS #7 PSA 8 $8 1996 SP Zach Thomas #91 PSA 8 1996 SP Mike Alstott #126 PSA 8 1997 SP Corey Dillon #25 PSA 8 1997 SP Ronde Barber #186 PSA 8 $8 2002 Topps Chrome Deion Branch #264 PSA 8 2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS #214 PSA 9 $15 SOLD 2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS #214 PSA 8 2004 Topps Chrome Larry Fitzgerald #215 PSA 8 $7
*************************************************** Lot of 1977 Topps Football - $35 delivered
#20 Wally Chambers PSA 8 #76 Scott Laidlaw PSA 8 #104 Carlos Brown PSA 8 #112 Rick Engles PSA 8 #160 Blaine Nye PSA 8 #169 Jeff Wright PSA 7 #194 Randy Crowder PSA 7 #199 Mike Hartenstine PSA 8 #207 Cowboys C/L PSA 8 #209 Lions C/L PSA 8 #306 Clark Gaines PSA 7 #328 Howard Stevens PSA 8 #443 Steve Zabel PSA 8 #499 John Smith PSA 8 #528 SUPER BOWL XI PSA 8
Send me a P.M. if you want to see a scan of any card. Thanks, Tom
Can someone let me know why this set includes the 1948 Bowman Pete Pihos and Bulldog Turner cards rather than their more popular Leaf counterparts? Same for the 1961 Fleer Don Maynard and Jim Otto where the Topps could be better regarded.
I'm guessing that it's simply the way that Registry Members voted some years ago. The description states that "There will be no additions or deletions to the list of cards required" so it appears that's how it will always be.
I'm pretty sure the Bulldog and Pihos are both SP in 48 bowman set and for that reason it would make them more valuable than there leaf counterparts. As for the Maynard SMR list the card as more valuable than the 61 topps version. Hope this helps Keith
Dan is correct. Each of those cards were selected because they were and still are the most valuable of the choices. This is the theme of the set, most valuable base set rookies of each player.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Dan is correct. Each of those cards were selected because they were and still are the most valuable of the choices. This is the theme of the set, most valuable base set rookies of each player.
Jason >>
Jason is correct.
But I think we forgot about the 1948 Bowman Chrome Refractor X-fractor of Pihos serial #'rd to 999. I think we should add that card to the set.
OK, I see that in SMR, the 1948 Bowman Turner and Pihos are the only HOF RCs with the (SP) designation, and are reinforced with higher SMR values than the Leafs. These two cards and the '61 Fleer Otto and Maynard also appear as the lowest POP rookie cards from checking the POP report. I don't know where the Pihos Refractor X-factor fits in. ;o) The "most valuable" card theme seems plausible rather than choosing the popularity of the larger set issued.
You gave me a very good answer. This makes the pursuit of these cards more fruitful, and their Set Composite assignments unarbitrary. Thanks Dan, Jason, and FavreFan.
But I think we forgot about the 1948 Bowman Chrome Refractor X-fractor of Pihos serial #'rd to 999. I think we should add that card to the set. >>
I believe you can find these in packs of 2009 Topps Chrome Football...Retail packs only, you know the ones by the register at Target...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm looking for a few HOF RC's, I thought I would try here just incase some of you have extra cards your looking to sell. Here is my want list, centered cards of the following rookie's
1970 Jan Stenerud (PSA 8) 1977 Mike Webster (PSA 8) 1977 Dave Casper (PSA 8)
Mark -------------------------------------------- NFL HOF RC SET
I finally got around to scanning some cards and putting them on the registry (wife was out of town). Man that takes a long time, no wonder Ive never done that before.
Some big time cards on Ebay right now, Leo Nomellini psa 7, Chaz Conerly psa 7, Mint states still got quite a few big time cards up. Im working on trying to get whats left of MOSH's coveted 88 topps set, so everyone keep their damn mitts off.
Comments
Jasen
<< <i>And, uh...I just bought a large Stydahar 7, so, um....I think we need to keep him.
Jasen >>
Stydahar was a HOF caliber player. 5-time 1st team All-Pro, who also happened to be a head coach not long after he retired in 1946. His 52 Bowman card is unique in that he never had a card produced during his playing years 1936-1946, but did have a card issued during his coaching years with the Rams 1950-1952. The card(s) Large and Small, are also officially recognized as rookie cards by the "all important" (according to PSA) Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia, so he will not be removed or changed. In fact PSA wouldn't even send out a poll on it if someone were to request removal. At least that's what I've been told. There will be NO changes to any of the CURRENTLY listed cards/players on the set. Had a long discussion with BJ and Gayle after that either/or was added for the 1950 Topps Felt Back Stamps(they aren't cards, sorry..lol) of Stautner and Creekmur.
Does that mean someone couldn't request a NEW addition, such as Halas? Absolutely not, only covers players/cards already on the set. But I would think if a poll went out requesting to add Halas to a players set, it would be a slam dunk no-go after the votes came in..And I own the Halas card BTW, its listed on my HOF Bears set...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jasen
Not every HOFer that has ever played is listed at the position they played in. Jim Finks is listed as a contributor. He also played, but is not listed at his position?
Along the same logic, Lets look at Steve Owen. On his bio page, it lists that he is inducted as a Coach and Tackle. Does this mean he was inducted as a player?
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>there are many other examples of players who were not HOF-caliber as players but became HOF coaches (Tom Landry, Tony Dungy, Ken Whisenhunt, etc). >>
I bet you thought no one would notice...
Rgs
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i><< there are many other examples of players who were not HOF-caliber as players but became HOF coaches (Tom Landry, Tony Dungy, Ken Whisenhunt, etc). >>
>>
I'll let Whisenhunt slide since you added Dungy....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
Along the same logic, Lets look at Steve Owen. On his bio page, it lists that he is inducted as a Coach and Tackle. Does this mean he was inducted as a player?
Dave >>
Would be a better argument than Halas, that's for sure. He was at LEAST a 1st Team All-Pro once. But again, would he have been elected as a player, had he not been the head coach of the Giants for 24 years? Debatable...
I beleive we actually discussed Owen when we initially started this set and the popular sentiment was that no, he would not have made the HOF based soldely on his playing, but again, it is debatable...
The thing i understand the least is that at a minimum of once a year, someone wants to re-invent the wheel on this set. It's been live for 6+ years now..All of a sudden we are uncovering players and/or cards that belong that somehoedidn;t belong over the past 6+ years? It really doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess in the doldrums of the off-season we can be easily disuaded by an overactive imagination.
As a sniff test, read his actually HOF Bio and see if it reads as if he was a HOF caliber PLAYER.
""To call Steve Owen a pioneer is not an overstatement. The sturdy tackle and head coach was born in Oklahoma before it was a state – it was still a territory in 1898. From little Phillips, a small Oklahoma college, Steve began his pro football career in 1924 with the Kansas City Blues (later Cowboys), a traveling team that played all their games on the road.
After a brief stay with the Cleveland Bulldogs, he was sold to the New York Giants in 1926 for $500. Owen played seven seasons with the Giants, 1926-1931 and 1933. In 1930, he was both a player and the team’s co-coach. Although he continued to play, he was named the sole head coach in 1931.
Then, in 1933, he stopped playing and devoted all his efforts to coaching. Owen and the Mara family, who owned the Giants never had a contract. He coached 23 years, 1930-1953, on just a handshake. Stout Steve Owen believed in basic fundamental football, and he was successful with his basic style. His real strength was in coaching defense.
Under his tutelage, the Giants played in eight of the first 14 championship games of the National Football League. The team’s victory in the 1934 “Sneakers Game” is well documented. He coached the Giants to another title in 1938. He originated the “umbrella defense” – the secondary was likened to an umbrella with four deep defensive backs representing the umbrella’s spokes.
The spokes include future Hall of Famers Emlen Tunnell and Tom Landry. He successfully used this defense to contain the powerful pass-oriented Cleveland Browns when they joined the NFL in 1950. Owen left the Giants following the 1953 season, but before he did he developed some of the greatest players and toughest teams in history. His 155 career victories attest to his success.""
If after reading it you still think he belongs on the HOF Rookie Player set, by all means make the request to PSA. Again, I don't think the voting will even be close. He's in the HOF because of his coaching and innovations on defense as a coach. Take that away and there are 10 guys not in tthe HOF from his era who would have been elected before him.If he were truly worthy, wouldn;t we have added him to the set before now? Not one player in the HOF was overlooked or any stone unturned. Every guy in there has been disected in every way imaginable, and if he was a HOF caliber player, he would have been on the set long ago.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>The thing i understand the least is that at a minimum of once a year, someone wants to re-invent the wheel on this set. It's been live for 6+ years now..All of a sudden we are uncovering players and/or cards that belong that somehoedidn;t belong over the past 6+ years? It really doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess in the doldrums of the off-season we can be easily disuaded by an overactive imagination.
>>
Don't get your panties in a bunch Jason......
I just happened to notice that Owen and Halas were listed as players and assumed they were inducted (at least partially) as players. If they are inducted as players, then their cards belong in the set.
Are you saying that this set was put together so well in the beginning that there may never be changes? If the whole world worked like that, I'd still be driving a model T....
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
Don't get your panties in a bunch Jason......
I just happened to notice that Owen and Halas were listed as players and assumed they were inducted (at least partially) as players. If they are inducted as players, then their cards belong in the set.
Are you saying that this set was put together so well in the beginning that there may never be changes? If the whole world worked like that, I'd still be driving a model T....
Dave >>
Dave, just giving my opinion that's all.
Never been changes? There already have been changes. Its been 6+ years, we've seen the addition of the USFL cards to the set, we've seen the back and forth between allowing 1952 Bowman Large and/or Small, we've seen the and/or added for Creekmur and Stautner cards. But if the question is have we overlooked HOF Players for the last 6 years this set has been listed? They answer is clearly no.
Again, if you think they should be added, by all means send the request to PSA. If the majority of collectors think 2 guys who were elected to the HOF primarily (if not entirely) as coaches belong in the set then they will vote them on to the set. Pretty simple. Neither you nor I have the authority to make that final decision. We can give opinions on how our own votes will be cast, but in the end majority will rule.
You asked for opinions or objections, I've stated mine. If you didn't want them you could have just blindly sent the request to PSA and or simply stated your opinion and not ask for others.
You just visited the HOF, how were Halas and owen represented there? As a player or as a coach? They are HOF coaches who were very good players. This set in particular is a collection of the greatest players. If I want to collect the coaches and contributers I will collect the HOF Player/Coach/Admin set rather than the rookie PLAYERS set.
There is absolutely no argument you can make for Halas being a HOF caliber player. Zero. You could debate Owen, but IMO, his innovations as a 20+ year coach of the Giants is the reason he is in the HOF, so I would not vote to add him to a player set. But if you did some research on him, you could probably at least come up with a good argument for him being a marginal/borderline HOF caliber player.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
And no, I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel", but when I see something like this, I question whether our set in truly complete. I'm sure we both want the set to be as good as possible....
Sorry I brought it up...
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>That's fine, I respect your opinion but keep in mind that 90% of the collectors that read this thread didn't have anything to do with the oringial making of the set. Others may think it's interesting that the HOF website lists Owen as a player, yet he isn't in the set....
And no, I'm not trying to "reinvent the wheel", but when I see something like this, I question whether our set in truly complete. I'm sure we both want the set to be as good as possible....
Sorry I brought it up...
Dave >>
No need to apologize. It's nice to be discussing football again actually...lol
To me this is no different than arguing if we should add some of the older HOFers that don't have rookie cards like (Paddy) Driscoll or Arnie Herber and simply using like 1991 Enor as their rookie card. Or arguing if George Blanda is an All-Time great QB. I mean he's listed as a QB right? On his HOF bio page as well as on the HOF positions page.
But again, for me you have to take the common sense approach. Look at Blanda's QB stats and ask if he would have been inducted into the HOF because of his performance as a QB? I mean he had ok stats, but would you honestly think he would have made the HOF if he hadn't retired as the all-time points leader and had played in the league for 26 years. He was elected PRIMARILY for that, and secondarily as a QB. And for me, this set is all about using the PRIMARY players and PRIMARY cards. If we start adding secondary players, we might as well start adding secondary cards such as the 1991 Enor, or the 1948 Bowman Sammy Baugh, or any number of 1989 Barry Sanders rookies. Oh that's right, we already have that set. The HOF Player/Coach/Admin set which allows the use of ANY card you want.
My vote would be to keep the HOF Rookie Player set to guys who were elected PRIMARILY for what they did on the field ONLY. and to keep the cards as the PRIMARY rookie cards of each of those players.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Doc
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>More like a Tax sale...... >>
NICE!
I don't usually put a shameless plug it, but I have a bunch of my duplicate HOF RC's listed on the Bay. Username "NRPSTARTER"
Proceeds to purchase a ring for the mother of my twins, take a look.
Thanks, Bill
I'm watching a couple of your auctions, good luck with the ring.
Tom
HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Would love to have that card for my 1962 Fleer set,
but I can't see paying more for one card than I've spent putting the entire set together.
Someone with one of the two 9s needs to buy that 10 and sell me their 9.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>Someone with one of the two 9s needs to buy that 10 and sell me their 9. >>
And then you can sell your 8 to someone with a 7 and I can buy the 7.
I know, I'm a bottom feeder.
Jasen
<< <i>Looks like the certs for MOSH's cards have been released.....here comes the parade of update flags!!!
>>
None from me....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone with one of the two 9s needs to buy that 10 and sell me their 9. >>
And then you can sell your 8 to someone with a 7 and I can buy the 7.
I know, I'm a bottom feeder. >>
I'll take your 6 then. I feed on your bottoms that you don't want
When I get home from work I'll send you a list of what I got, I know I have a '61 Henry Jordan PSA 6 and a '66 Bob Brown PSA 8oc and a bunch of PSA 8's from the HOF Future set.
Tom
HOFers:
1950 BOWMAN 35 JOE PERRY 8.5
1950 BOWMAN 6 LOU GROZA 8.5
1952 BOWMAN LARGE 140 YALE LARY 8
1952 BOWMAN SMALL 57 WAYNE MILLNER 8
1955 BOWMAN 14 LEN FORD 8.5
1955 TOPPS ALL-AMERICAN 66 BRUISER KINARD 8.5
1956 TOPPS 47 BILL GEORGE 8
1959 TOPPS 140 BOBBY MITCHELL 9
1960 FLEER 118 RON MIX 9
1961 FLEER 197 JIM OTTO 9
1961 FLEER 215 DON MAYNARD 9
1963 FLEER 10 NICK BUONICONTI 8.5
1963 TOPPS 155 LARRY WILSON 8.5
1964 PHILADELPHIA 161 JIM JOHNSON 9
1964 PHILADELPHIA 3 JOHN MACKEY 9
1964 PHILADELPHIA 71 HERB ADDERLY 9
1964 PHILADELPHIA 72 WILLIE DAVIS 9
1964 TOPPS 92 BUCK BUCHANAN 8.5
1965 PHILADELPHIA 105 CARL ELLER 9
1965 PHILADELPHIA 195 CHARLEY TAYLOR 9
1965 PHILADELPHIA 41 PAUL WARFIELD 8.5
1966 PHILADELPHIA 45 GENE HICKERSON 9
1967 PHILADELPHIA 178 DAVE WILCOX 9
1972 TOPPS 240 LARRY LITTLE 9
1973 TOPPS 341 JIM LANGER 10
NON-HOFers:
1955 BOWMAN 81 BILLY WILSON 7
1961 FLEER 202 JOHNNY ROBINSON 9
1989 SCORE 72 CRIS CARTER 10
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE 38 JUNIOR SEAU 9
1994 PLAYOFF 300 LARRY ALLEN 9
1996 SP 7 TERRELL OWENS 10
Here is what I'm looking for in trade (or possible buy):
HOFers:
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE 1 DUTCH CLARK 7
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE 34 BRONKO NAGURSKI 5-7
1948 LEAF 1 SID LUCKMAN YELLOW BACKGROUND 7
1948 LEAF 52 LEO NOMELLINI BLUE BACKGROUND, MAROON JERSEY 7
1948 LEAF 54 CHUCK BEDNARIK YELLOW BACKGROUND 6-7
1948 LEAF 6 BOBBY LAYNE YELLOW PANTS, ERR.BOBBIE 7
1950 BOWMAN 6 LOU GROZA 8
1950 BOWMAN 35 JOE PERRY 8
1952 BOWMAN 48 GEORGE HALAS 8
1952 BOWMAN 14 PAUL BROWN 8
1952 BOWMAN 99 JOE STYDAHAR 8
1955 BOWMAN 14 LEN FORD 8
1957 TOPPS 138 JOHN UNITAS 8
1961 FLEER 215 DON MAYNARD 8
1963 FLEER 10 NICK BUONICONTI 8
1963 FLEER 47 LEN DAWSON 8
1971 TOPPS 188 ROGER WEHRLI 9
1981 TOPPS 316 DAN HAMPTON 10
1982 TOPPS 486 RONNIE LOTT ALL-PRO 10
1984 TOPPS USFL 36 JIM KELLY 10
1984 TOPPS USFL 52 STEVE YOUNG 10
1984 TOPPS USFL 58 REGGIE WHITE 10
1986 TOPPS 389 BRUCE SMITH 10
NON-HOFers:
1948 LEAF 28 WHITEY WISTERT YELLOW JERSEY 6-7
1948 LEAF 53 CHARLEY CONERLY 6-7
1959 TOPPS 103 ALEX KARRAS 8
1961 FLEER 202 JOHNNY ROBINSON 8
1964 TOPPS 108 JIM TYRER 8
1967 PHILADELPHIA 183 CHRIS HANBURGER 8
1970 TOPPS 95 RICH JACKSON 9
1971 TOPPS 121 GARO YEPREMIAN 9
1984 TOPPS 222 JIM COVERT 10
1985 TOPPS 24 RICHARD DENT ALL PRO 10
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE 39 CORTEZ KENNEDY 10
1993 SP 6 JEROME BETTIS FOIL 10
1997 SP AUTHENTIC 6 WALTER JONES 9-10
1997 SP AUTHENTIC 116 JASON TAYLOR 10
1999 SP AUTHENTIC 111 CHAMP BAILEY 9-10
2000 FLEER 356 JANIKOWSKI/LECHLER 10
2002 UPPER DECK XL 362 ALAN FANECA 10
Shoot me a PM or e-mail at jabeduco@yahoo.com if interested in doing something.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Looks like we can take Jimmy Smith out of our future HOF set.....No way he gets in now..... >>
Bad situation, he suddenly quits after the 05 season and he has had nothing but off field issues.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>Looks like we can take Jimmy Smith out of our future HOF set.....No way he gets in now..... >>
What would this have to do with his HOF status? He's not getting in because he got busted years after his retirement? Not sure I understand how that would play any part.
He got busted (and suspended) for drugs while he was still playing..So have a bunch of guys, to include performance enhancing drugs. Based on how the football HOF committee votes, none of that will ever be the SOLE reason a guy doesn't make the HOF.
We will do a vote to add new players and/or subtract players from the set in Januaray, just as we do every year. If you want Smith removed, that will be the time to make your vote known. There were a couple of votes to remove him last year, but no where close to 50%. I'd like to see At-water come off the list first since he's been a candidate for 5+ years now and can;t even make the semi-finals. If the same happens to Smith when he gets on the ballot, and he doesn;t evenmake the top 25 for 5+ years then I would vote to remove him. Other than that, there's nothing he could no now short of a terrorist attack or assassination that would make him less worthy than he was when we voted him on.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like we can take Jimmy Smith out of our future HOF set.....No way he gets in now..... >>
What would this have to do with his HOF status? He's not getting in because he got busted years after his retirement? Not sure I understand how that would play any part.
He got busted (and suspended) for drugs while he was still playing..So have a bunch of guys, to include performance enhancing drugs. Based on how the football HOF committee votes, none of that will ever be the SOLE reason a guy doesn't make the HOF.
We will do a vote to add new players and/or subtract players from the set in Januaray, just as we do every year. If you want Smith removed, that will be the time to make your vote known. There were a couple of votes to remove him last year, but no where close to 50%. I'd like to see At-water come off the list first since he's been a candidate for 5+ years now and can;t even make the semi-finals. If the same happens to Smith when he gets on the ballot, and he doesn;t evenmake the top 25 for 5+ years then I would vote to remove him. Other than that, there's nothing he could no now short of a terrorist attack or assassination that would make him less worthy than he was when we voted him on.
Jason >>
While a sad situation, I agree it shouldn't keep him out of the Hall.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>What are L. O'Neal's chances of getting inducted? He finished w/ 132 sacks and from what I remember he wasn't a liability against the run. Any opinions? Thanks >>
IMO, his chances aren't good. He was a very good player no doubt, but 132 sacks leaves him behind non HOFers Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, John Randle and Kevin Greene.
Also, while he had 6 Pro Bowls, but was never a first team all-pro..Which means he was never one of the top 2 DE's in the league during his career.
He's been on the ballot now for 5 years and hasn't even made the top 25.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Nice addition there with the Stydahar 8....how 'bout a scan of that bad boy?
Jasen
BTW...I just picked up a nice PSA 6 Connor from Rick.....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, I was just seeing how long it would take you to respond....LOL..
Well, since that story actually broke yesterday, it's already old news. I didn't think it had anything to do with the HOF RC set, so I didn't post anything here about..
I guess we can take Marvin Harrison off the set too since HE SHOT SOMEONE (allegedly) !!!!!!!!! ...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>What are L. O'Neal's chances of getting inducted? He finished w/ 132 sacks and from what I remember he wasn't a liability against the run. Any opinions? Thanks >>
IMO, his chances aren't good. He was a very good player no doubt, but 132 sacks leaves him behind non HOFers Richard Dent, Chris Doleman, John Randle and Kevin Greene.
Also, while he had 6 Pro Bowls, but was never a first team all-pro..Which means he was never one of the top 2 DE's in the league during his career.
He's been on the ballot now for 5 years and hasn't even made the top 25.
Jason >>
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White. >>
This a good point, and I know the HOF committee has consider those issues in the past as well...I just haven't seen any support for him from the voters, and with a bunch other pass rushers ahead of him, a couple of which (Doleman and Greene) will probably have a long time to wait...I don't see where he'll ever fit in..Not to mention Michael Strahan comes into the mix in a few years...You can also throw in Charles Haley ahead of him who has also gotten strong support, making the final 25 in 4 of the last 5 years...
So I guess the question is, will 7 (O'Neal would be the 7th) pass rushers make the HOF within the next 15 years (that's how many years O'Neal has left on the ballot)? Not impossible I guess, but I would say the longest of long shots.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I would think Dent and Doleman would eventually make it in as with Randle and Greene-all were great players. IMO the lack of All-Pros shouldn't count against him since his career just happened to coincide w/ two of the best D-Ends in the history of league in Smith and White. >>
This a good point, and I know the HOF committee has consider those issues in the past as well...I just haven't seen any support for him from the voters, and with a bunch other pass rushers ahead of him, a couple of which (Doleman and Greene) will probably have a long time to wait...I don't see where he'll ever fit in..Not to mention Michael Strahan comes into the mix in a few years...You can also throw in Charles Haley ahead of him who has also gotten strong support, making the final 25 in 4 of the last 5 years...
So I guess the question is, will 7 (O'Neal would be the 7th) pass rushers make the HOF within the next 15 years (that's how many years O'Neal has left on the ballot)? Not impossible I guess, but I would say the longest of long shots.
Jason >>
You make a very convincing argument, and you are probably right that he will not make it in the next 15 yrs w/ those other players ahead of him. IMO he had a HOF career but I'd like to see those DE's make it in first.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I have some extra HOF RC's and RC's for other football key card sets for sale.
Everything that dosen't have a price next to it is $5.00 ... Shipping for the first item is $2.00 with no charge for additional items.
1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson #42 PSA 5 $7
1957 Topps Pete Retzlaff #2 PSA 5
1960 Fleer Abner Haynes #73 PSA 6 SOLD
1961 Fleer Goose Gonsoulin #152 PSA 9oc $10
1961 Topps Henry Jordan #45 PSA 6 $10 SOLD
1964 Topps Dave Grayson #97 PSA 8 $15 SOLD
1964 Topps Jim Tyrer #108 PSA 6st
1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer PSA 6 $10
1966 Philadelphia Bob Brown PSA 8oc $10
1971 Topps Jake Scott #211 PSA 7
1974 Topps Joe DeLamielleure #183 PSA 7 $8
1974 TOPPS WALLY CHAMBERS #474 PSA 9 $15
1975 Topps Curley Culp #297 PSA 9 $10
1976 Topps Ron Jaworski #426 PSA 7
1977 Topps Vince Papale #397 PSA 8 $10 SOLD
1977 Topps Seahawks Checklist #226 PSA 8 $10
1977 TOPPS SUPER BOWL XI #528 PSA 8
1980 Topps John Smith #291 PSA 9
1981 Topps Billy Sims #100 PSA 8
1983 Topps Otis Wilson #41 PSA 8
1983 Topps Dexter Manley #191 PSA 8
1984 Topps Dwight Stephenson #129 PSA 8
1985 Topps Joe Morris #120 PSA 7 $3
1987 Topps Leslie O'Neal #347 PSA 9 $8
1989 Score Sterling Sharpe #333S PSA 8
1989 Score Eric Allen #380S PSA 8
1990 Action Packed Shannon Sharpe #46 PSA 8
1992 All-World Desmond Howard #15 PSA 8
1994 Bowman Kevin Mawae #135 PSA 8
1995 PACIFIC JAMES WILLIAMS #216 PSA 8
1995 SP Warren Sapp #99 PSA 8
1995 SP Derrick Brooks #103 PSA 8
1996 SP Keyshawn Johnson #1 PSA 8.5
1996 SP Simeon Rice #3 PSA 8
1996 SP Eddie George #5 PSA 8 $8
1996 SP TERRELL OWENS #7 PSA 8 $8
1996 SP Zach Thomas #91 PSA 8
1996 SP Mike Alstott #126 PSA 8
1997 SP Corey Dillon #25 PSA 8
1997 SP Ronde Barber #186 PSA 8 $8
2002 Topps Chrome Deion Branch #264 PSA 8
2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS #214 PSA 9 $15 SOLD
2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS #214 PSA 8
2004 Topps Chrome Larry Fitzgerald #215 PSA 8 $7
***************************************************
Lot of 1977 Topps Football - $35 delivered
#20 Wally Chambers PSA 8
#76 Scott Laidlaw PSA 8
#104 Carlos Brown PSA 8
#112 Rick Engles PSA 8
#160 Blaine Nye PSA 8
#169 Jeff Wright PSA 7
#194 Randy Crowder PSA 7
#199 Mike Hartenstine PSA 8
#207 Cowboys C/L PSA 8
#209 Lions C/L PSA 8
#306 Clark Gaines PSA 7
#328 Howard Stevens PSA 8
#443 Steve Zabel PSA 8
#499 John Smith PSA 8
#528 SUPER BOWL XI PSA 8
Send me a P.M. if you want to see a scan of any card.
Thanks,
Tom
I'm guessing that it's simply the way that Registry Members voted some years ago. The description states that "There will be no additions or deletions to the list of cards required" so it appears that's how it will always be.
Hope this helps Keith
Dan
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Dan is correct. Each of those cards were selected because they were and still are the most valuable of the choices. This is the theme of the set, most valuable base set rookies of each player.
Jason >>
Jason is correct.
But I think we forgot about the 1948 Bowman Chrome Refractor X-fractor of Pihos serial #'rd to 999. I think we should add that card to the set.
You gave me a very good answer. This makes the pursuit of these cards more fruitful, and their Set Composite assignments unarbitrary. Thanks Dan, Jason, and FavreFan.
<< <i>
But I think we forgot about the 1948 Bowman Chrome Refractor X-fractor of Pihos serial #'rd to 999. I think we should add that card to the set.
I believe you can find these in packs of 2009 Topps Chrome Football...Retail packs only, you know the ones by the register at Target...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here is my want list, centered cards of the following rookie's
1970 Jan Stenerud (PSA 8)
1977 Mike Webster (PSA 8)
1977 Dave Casper (PSA 8)
Mark
--------------------------------------------
NFL HOF RC SET
Some big time cards on Ebay right now, Leo Nomellini psa 7, Chaz Conerly psa 7, Mint states still got quite a few big time cards up. Im working on trying to get whats left of MOSH's coveted 88 topps set, so everyone keep their damn mitts off.
Congrats on this baby....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658