The satin finish is really easy to determine on these new mint set coins. MS 70s will be few and far between. The North and South Dakota quarters have clean good looking designs and come better in the P mint than the D mint. Kennedy halves have the same problems as last year on the reverse. Cent collectors will be happy with the quality. Good luck to everyone looking at these new mint sets.
Donn Murphy Collection - Washington Statehood Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1999-Present) Donn Murphy was an early winner in this category and has won five consecutive awards, the last two shared with Douglas Rall. New issues are coming onto the market for the next three years, so it will be interesting to see which collector has the perseverance, resources, and luck to ultimately win the battle. Of course, we wish the best of luck to both and applaud them for their efforts so far.
Douglas Rall - Washington Statehood Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1999-Present) Last year, Douglas Rall shared top honors for this category with Donn Murphy. This year, the scores remain the same, with both collections coming in at a rock-solid 68.33 GPA. It’s going to be a tough battle, but one of these collectors is eventually going to break the tie. Which one will it be?
I haven't received my mint sets yet, but they are on the way according to the mint. I was gonna forget about ordering them this year but forgot to cancel the subscription. Guess I will just have to open them upon arrival and see what they look like.
Its been a year since the release of the 2005 satin finish coins. To date there has been a lot of confusion caused by these. I was hoping that pcgs would have the pops cleaned up by now, and possibly some new variety sets. It appears that nothing is getting done, and now we are seeing sf coins on the market with business strike attributions. I think that the we, the collectors, are going to pay dearly for tpg's mistakes on these coins. Realized prices can and will be down due to incorrect pops, and incorrect grading. Those incorrect coins that were on teletrade a while back are just the beginning.
Points to consider. Ian Russell had some questionable coins regraded. What if the some of those coins are still incorrectly slabbed? What happens then? And what happens to the owner of these later down the road when they try to resell these? Who takes the loss? At the same time what about those of us that have correctly slabbed coins that decide to sell? Will we be able to get what the coins are worth when the pops are incorrect and other collectors are understandably hesitant to buy these coins due to problems caused by tpg's and their lack of correct grading/quality control?
At this point I am very hesitant to buy a newly released coin. Especially a business strike, for the above reasons and others. I can't help but wonder what all of this is doing to pcgs' reputation. If they make these kind of mistakes on new coins, which there are millions of, what about those really rare coins that they have graded in the past, and will continue to do so in the future? Will anybody be able to look at their slabs with unshakable confidence? And, as a leader in the hobby/industry, I think that their refusal to take a stand on the sf issue and the problems that have occurred has to have hurt them more than help them.
Maybe its time to let the coins go and maybe collect stamps!
It has been seven months since this thread was started, will there ever be "light at the end of the tunnel" ... I doubt it. How about a home for the Orphans? Mitch, you said awhile ago that you and Mr. Hall would follow - up on the population reports once a week, haven't heard from you so I am taking it that you to have given up on PCGS fixing the problem (I don't blame you, everyone gets tired of banging their head against the wall when the one that created the problem will do nothing to fix it).
Wondercoin: My previous post was not against you. I know that you, Doug, rb7557, and a bunch of others have done all you can in order to get PCGS to stand up to the plate and fix this problem. But as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
Tim: I know. A number of weeks ago when the non-SF problem nickels were removed from the pop report, I was under the impression the state quarters would be "right around the corner". It never happened.
On the bright side, I heard the actions taken with those non-SF nickels may have "smoked out" the problem coins. That is good for everyone - INCLUDING, IMHO, the collector who owned it thinking he had purchased something special for his $1,200.00+ and not a $100 SF mechanical error coin. The only issue that arises (as usual) is who pays for the mistakes when the collectors seek compensation for their coins. Since the 2005 MS69 Bison Nickel sold at public auction is there any recourse against the consignor of the coin to the auction? Or, is PCGS 100% responsible whether the collector paid $1,200 for the coin, or $12,000 or $120,000 or $1.2 million? Assuming PCGS has already been contacted by the holder of this coin (who had it obliterated from his registry set I presume) for compenssation, it should be interesting to see what happens when 300+ state quarters are striken from the pop report.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wondercoin - Just to remind you - the Bison were in the wrong holders and labeled as business strike coins. They were sold according to the label as business strike coins.
The State quarters were sold as SF coins, priced accordingly and are labeled accordingly. The only error is in the PCGS database. The data base needs be corrected but there is no need to pull the coins from the registry. or coins returned to PCGS for a new holder.
Tesoro: For the most part, I agree with you. But, you don't think there are a few state quarters in "the same boat" as the Bison nickels out there? Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wondercoin For the 3 "error" submissions I am confident they are in SF holders. As far as other state quarters in non-SF holders that are really Sf coins there can't be many, The MS68 and MS69 business strikes have been tracked closely and makers and submission pretty much known. I know there is some disagreement on the OR MS68 on TT recently but for most part the pop on CA-P and CA-D is explained, MN-P has at most 1 mystery coin, all the KS MS68, WV MS68 are accounted for. I do, reserve judgment once the 3 submissions are corrected, however.
Nothing new in 2 weeks. The 06 sf coins are starting to hit the market in new attire. Looks like Datentype found a few 70's. Coinfame has found some shq's in 69 and upgraded his 99-06 mint set registry. Way to go you guys.
Wonder how much longer it's gonna be before the pops get taken care of and maybe some new variety sets?
Enough rambling. I really wanted to get this post back to the top before it disappeared to the next screen.
Looks like a hot box of WV-P also, someone made 8 more in MS69. Since there is 1 known MS68 I hope the maker will sell these babies cheap. On a more serious note why are the same errors occuring. Not only do we wait for known corrections we have to find new ones.
Pop report this week is showing a number of out of this world Business Strike coins affected are State Quarters, Kennedy's and Rosies. I tried to clear this up before today's Pop report update but PCGS needed to have the coins back. I received them in this mornings mail and quickly re-packaged them and shipped back to PCGS this afternoon. I hope that they will take care of this and make the necessary Pop report adjustments ASAP
Oh Jeeze, this just keeps getting more entertaining as time goes on! Couldn't wait to see the pops this morning since I was tied up yesterday. This is totally shocking. Wonder what the cause is now? Better yet, I wonder if this will take yet another year to take care of?
Well Michael, you musta had 1 helluva a submission! You broke the damn data entry system!!!! Are you taking offers on those KS-p quarters? I just gotta have one! Need one of those MN-p's also. That should put me in a tie with Walt!!!! Maybe have these with an attribution like "pcgs' fubar pop collection" so they retain or, better yet, increase in value as time goes on.
As the coin turns! Should put this soap on tv, in between reruns of snots landing, dallas and falcon crest. Better yet, just after the sapranos and before the coin vault!
Way to go guys. So much for light at the end of the tunnel......
Good job MASS glad to see you are handling this. In the heat of the moment with the flush of new grades and present releases with pops going up and prices are uncertain it is no wonder some people did not take care of the problem last year even if they were aware of it because time is money early in the game each year. This year more accountability to all us submitters to check on line the PCGS results and attributions to make sure they are correct before we release the coins. PCGS should move with lighning speed to fix these label issues and return the coins over-night to encourage cooperation should they screw up again in the 2006 SF labeling and that seems likely now since history tends to repeat itself and it just did with MASS. PCGS will remain jinxed on this until they fix the pop report for the S/N sequence we already found and reported. Were the coin numbers on the holders not right for SF coins on this new MASS batch? Why did PCGS need them back but for the wrong coin number on the holder? If MASS ends up swimming in KS-P SF69 I will buy an extra one too! dr
This group of coins are similar to the early batches that still have not been fixed on the Pop report. These coins have a Business strike coin # associated with them and not the Satin Finish #, these coins are Satin Finish coins. PCGS requested that we return them for correction. not sure why the coins needed to be returned in order to correct the mistake???
We paid to ship the batch back to PCGS to correct the mistake and with time lost for sales and our return shipping cost we would be happy with this:
<< <i>PCGS should move with lightning speed to fix these label issues and return the coins over-night to encourage cooperation >>
Just wanted to report that the batch of coins have been corrected and are in route back to us. We where also informed that the Pop Report will be corrected with the next update.
<< <i>PCGS should move with lightning speed to fix these label issues and return the coins over-night to encourage cooperation >>
The Mis-labeled batch of coins where received by PCGS on Monday 8-21-06. We received a call that afternoon that the corrections had been made and the coins where to ship that afternoon. We received the batch of coins yesterday!!!!
Nice to hear they really can move fast when they need to. I wish they would act the same way in making a place for my 2005/2006 business strike coins. I have soooo many to submitt, but with no place for them to reside, why bother.
I'll be........is it me or has the pop report changed? Some of the numbers look good, but the MN is still questionable. And what is No Heading MS ? What does that mean? They look like 06 bs pops to me.
Still no correction on the 354 +/- run of serial numbers in the satin finish holders that show up in the PCGS pop report as MS coins as follows: "In summary the cert numbers affected are BRC 73689011 - 73689368, Unknown New Batch 73689369 - 73689410, and POW batch 73689411 - 73689510. Note that the final s/n in the BRC and POW batches shown above are for non-graded coins but the s/n for the non-graded coins show up in the hard copy print-out so I was able to match the beginning and ending numbers up." I sent this hard copy to David Hall at PCGS with tracking and there have been no corrections. I sent Ron Guth an e-mail to see if PCGS is going to correct this or not on Friday and am awaiting a reply. Not having possession of these coins in this SN range appears to be a problem in getting things fixed as you see the MASS corrections took place quickly when the miss-labeled batch was returned to PCGS intact (GOOD JOB MASS!!!!!!!)
My suggestion to Ron in the e-mail is to document the error decisivly if PCGS is not going to correct it so that future generations of collectors will know about the massive error. How about an offer in Coin World and Numismatic News et al for $5.00 each digital photo emailed of the obverse of a coin in this S/N range? Like PCGS did with Roger's coin would they have to fix it if they have an obverse photo of the coins? PCGS may not want that kind of publicity surrounding the error but if they will not correct it it must be documented in my opinion. If we need to advertise and collect these photos ourselves as collectors I will pay the $5 per photo and maybe others could contribute their talents to attract the photos? Expensive and time consuming yes but needed to be done in my opinion to document the error properly if PCGS will not fix it. Even if we end up with only 10-15 photos in this range and we have one from each batch (Roger already gave us the SF WV-P photo of his coin in one of the batches so only two batches to go) I think this will be enough to constitute the proof we need so writers and catalogers of future sales of true business strike rarities can refer to error in the PCGS pop report. As it is now catalogers love to refer to the pop report and when rare MS state quarters in 68 currently go for over $1,000 the general public needs to be educated about the error as more demand creates even higher values. dr
I will wait a few days to see if we can get a response or not. What do you-all think about the idea of getting a digital archive of photos of coins in this range?
Sounds as though I'm not the only member starting to lose faith in PCGS's ability to control quality. Or their wish to correct the errors they have made, mechanicle or human. Just 4 months away from having the 06 coins count in the registry, marking 2 years of "and/or". It should be, "if/could-be/maybe/I-think-it-is/maybe-not/who-knows/your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine/what-do-you-mean-you-bought-sight-unseen/only-a-dufuss-would-buy-sight-unseen/I-think-PCGS-did-the-right-thing/why?/because-who-can-tell-the-difference?".
Only sure way to get your SF's graded right. Buy yourself a red sharpie, and mark "in large RED letters" , SF on each coin you send in. This will give you a 50/50 chance of getting them back in the correct holder. For business strikes, send in only circulated coins. This will give you the same odds listed above.
Everybody knows my situation. But I refrained from selling 7 of the 8 ms-68 05 business strike coins I had in my set. There was no question about the Ks-d that sold yesterday. I didn't sell the other 7 for 2 reasons. 1 the pops are messed up and I couldn't realize what I should because of pcgs and their stand on this issue, which at this point, as far as the general public is concerned, admit nothing and do nothing. And 2 because I still have hope that they will get off their ass' (I appologize to those of you who find this offensive) and do whats right. You know, clean up the pops, and do the variety thing to the registry so there is a greater demand for these circulating coins, like there used to be before yet another marketing ploy by the mint.
I want to say something else while I'm on this roll. I hated selling my shq's, but, I have lost some of my passion for this set. There was no question of that passion till this and/or situation came about. I admit, I got caught up in the competetive aspect of the registry, without a doubt. And I also have no doubts that the "competitive" aspect was the very reason for the advent of the registry. Viscious circle that one! Create a market for slabs, then give the owners of them a way to show them off, and then rank the sets so the owners of these slabs compete with other owners, thus the creation of greater demand, inflated prices, and oh yeah, if so and so is getting that much for said coin in such and such grade, I just have to submit 100 coins so I can make some of that $ from those easy to find high grade coins. I honestly think that pcgs will lose in the long run if they don't get back on track with this and clean up after themselves. I am seriously thinking of dumping every quarter I have, buying slabbed 66's, maybe those from across the street, who knows, and cracking em out to put them into an album. That is how bad a taste I have in my mouth at this time. Of course I would really have to love the coins to keep em around, cause you know they ain't worth nothing but 25c each unless the plastic says its so and so!!!! No stress, truly a blissful state!
Doug, you have taken a lot on yourself. And quite honestly, you shouldn't have to be in this position, or feel like you need to take this on. Why is it that you as a collector/maker/dealer should even have to consider this? There is no doubt about your love for the coins, and your desire to preserve the best for future generations. It's quite admirable, and we all know your motives are beyond reproach. But pcgs is raking in big $ to grade and slab these. Why is it that it comes down to a collector, or group of collectors, that have to clean up behind pcgs? And at what cost to said group? It's nothing but a win win situation for pcgs. Quite honestly, we are enabling them to be this way.
Doug, that is a great idea with the pics. Now if you can just get the owners of these "mechanical" errors to cooperate. Hell I will send you my WV-p slab if you think it will help you. I have to wonder what pcgs' response would be if an ad was in fact printed in one of the major coin publications. And at the same time, would there be any litigation to come about if that was to happen? You have to remember, pcgs is in California, and Califonians are suit happy!!!!!
I'm done venting.......LOL Someone pass me a zima, I've worked up quite a thirst after that one!
To a novice collector, like myself, all of this could be very distressing. This whole situation goes to the foundation of having a Registry Set. I Have a nice Lincoln Memorial Set (#9 in busi.strikes). 98 coins, 24 I made myself. The others were more expensive. It has taken me over 3 years to get it where it is. I am not a rich man, I do the best I can. I am new to the forums. Of late, I have enjoyed the discussions very much. After reading most of the treads, it appears too me that the fault is on us as collectors. We did not have to buy the Satin Finish Sets from the Mint. We did have to put them in our sets. We could have done what we always do. Seach for the best from rolls & bags. I for one will have to replace my SF coins in the Business Sets. Yes the ranking will go down, but it is the clear way to go. I think it will be up to us to POLICE ourselves. We have to make a conscience decision to work on our own sets too please ourselves. If we continue to get caught in the "RATING GAME" I think we will reget it. As for the POP reports. I do not think any grading service will try to reprocess all SF/circ coins to fix this situation. I could be wrong, I have been before. Thanks to all of you. Al
Lost in Lincoln Modern Land I am on eBay as "innerharborcoins"
If litigation comes from the pop report screw up it will more likely be RB suing PCGS for the loss of value of his MS68 coins he is trying to sell due to the false and knowingly false gross miss-representation overstatement of the 2005 MS vs SF state quarters in the pop report. Fortunately for me I intend to collect all the state quarters both SF and MS and this is a long term hold for me so the current problems of the day have little effect on my wallet but now one of us needs to sell you can see the detrimental market conditions that currently exist for MS coins due to the knowingly false and miss-leading pop report. There is a lot said in silence and the only conclusion I can reach by PCGS silence is that PCGS has a policy of requiring the return of the coin or digital photo to make the correction. Mitch prior year batch was caught and returned to PCGS and PCGS fixed it, MASS current year batch was caught and returned to PCGS and PCGS fixed it (thank you for your diligence MASS and Mitch!). Roger digital photo of obverse of one of the problem coins was emailed to PCGS and they fixed it, problem nickels sold on TT were fixed in the pop report (digital photos were on site at TT), problem quarters recently seen on TT were fixed by PCGS (digital photos were on site at TT) so in all cases where PCGS had digital photos or actual possession of the coins the problem was fixed. Note that the digital photos PCGS jumped on to fix at TT were those that did not say "Satin Finish" on the holder. All 350+ problem coins are already in the Satin Finish bulk labels so they do not make a visual impact to the observer because by looking at the coin you would never know that the PCGS data base shows these 350+/- coins as MS mint state coins and only a foll would buy these obvious satin finsih coins in a satin finish holder relying only on the PCGS data base so it seems PCGS hhas little downside iin the problem and in the trading of these problem coins. The problem is in selling the coins when you go to sell a true mint state rarity catalogers list pop reports at auction and people rely on them hence the MS coins of 2005 in that problem SN range are clearly devalued when you go to sell them. Wouldn't it just be easier for PCGS to tell us why they are not fixing the error? Are they afraid to tell us they need digital photos of the slabs for fear of a campaign to get digital photos that may bring about negative publicity? I have my 2006 set of SF69 in the bag already and am focusing on 2006 MS coins again. For the record PCGS has been excellent to work with and very good at grading and good customer service for all my submissions so far this year just need to get that 2005 pop report cleaned up and there has to be a way to get this Corporation known as PCGS to do it. dr
You probably hit on the only thing that will light a fire under PCGS in the first line of your statement above. I also think it will look bad for PCGS that they had so long to try and correct their mistakes. But decided instead to just sit and hope the problem would go away on its own. A class action option may well be the outcome from their inaction. I myself would have no involvement, I've been lucky enough (so far)to get exactly what I paid for. But I can sure feel for all the ones who have paid, and trusted PCGS, to grade their coins correctly. And or bought SIGHT UNSEEN coins in a PCGS holder that were not as labled. You can call some mechanical, but as long as a HUMAN is proofing these before they are shipped, then HUMAN error is a fact. We all know there are more than one type error coming from PCGS these days, software may be one, but SF coins in business strike holders is a human error all day every day. We've been told inspectors check the coins after they are put in holders, quality control is a HUMAN error.
If litigation comes from the pop report screw up it will more likely be RB suing PCGS for the loss of value of his MS68 coins he is trying to sell due to the false and knowingly false gross miss-representation overstatement of the 2005 MS vs SF state quarters in the pop report.
Not something I would do. I can't see what's to be gained after the lawyers etc...... But it's an interesting thought. For the record, I think one of the biggest problems with our nation today is there are so many frivolous law suits that should never be allowed in the court system. Let alone the huge $ awarded in some of these actions.
I hung on to all the 05 and 06 quarters. Both types. Except for the Ks-d business strike. A fellow collector offered more than twice the amount that I paid for it. Under the circumstances I had to accept the offer. 40% of the bills have been handled. Now to the other half.
A big "thank you" to those of you that bought some of my collection. And a big "thank you" to all who have shown concern, and for the kind statements. I had no clue there were so many caring folk wondering around these forums.
<< <i>If litigation comes from the pop report screw up it will more likely be RB suing PCGS for the loss of value of his MS68 coins he is trying to sell due to the false and knowingly false gross miss-representation overstatement of the 2005 MS vs SF state quarters in the pop report.
Not something I would do. I can't see what's to be gained after the lawyers etc...... But it's an interesting thought. For the record, I think one of the biggest problems with our nation today is there are so many frivolous law suits that should never be allowed in the court system. Let alone the huge $ awarded in some of these actions.
I hung on to all the 05 and 06 quarters. Both types. Except for the Ks-d business strike. A fellow collector offered more than twice the amount that I paid for it. Under the circumstances I had to accept the offer. 40% of the bills have been handled. Now to the other half.
A big "thank you" to those of you that bought some of my collection. And a big "thank you" to all who have shown concern, and for the kind statements. I had no clue there were so many caring folk wondering around these forums.
rb >>
I agree about the lawyers and frivolous lawsuits today. I do not think people realize how much the lawsuit impact everyone else. From things like insurance rates, to costs of goods and services we all suffer in the end from things such as this.
As far as people caring, I agree. There are a lot of really great people here. It is good to hear you are making some progress on those darn bills. I hope things continue to go well for you and your family and hope your wife is feeling better.
Comments
Tim
Donn Murphy Collection - Washington Statehood Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1999-Present)
Donn Murphy was an early winner in this category and has won five consecutive awards, the last two shared with Douglas Rall. New issues are coming onto the market for the next three years, so it will be interesting to see which collector has the perseverance, resources, and luck to ultimately win the battle. Of course, we wish the best of luck to both and applaud them for their efforts so far.
Douglas Rall - Washington Statehood Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1999-Present)
Last year, Douglas Rall shared top honors for this category with Donn Murphy. This year, the scores remain the same, with both collections coming in at a rock-solid 68.33 GPA. It’s going to be a tough battle, but one of these collectors is eventually going to break the tie. Which one will it be?
Congratulation's to both of you
And I hope there is never a POP 1 coin that forces a break.
I haven't received my mint sets yet, but they are on the way according to the mint. I was gonna forget about ordering them this year but forgot to cancel the subscription. Guess I will just have to open them upon arrival and see what they look like.
Wondercoin
Points to consider. Ian Russell had some questionable coins regraded. What if the some of those coins are still incorrectly slabbed?
What happens then? And what happens to the owner of these later down the road when they try to resell these? Who takes the loss? At the same time what about those of us that have correctly slabbed coins that decide to sell? Will we be able to get what the coins are worth when the pops are incorrect and other collectors are understandably hesitant to buy these coins due to problems caused by tpg's and their lack of correct grading/quality control?
At this point I am very hesitant to buy a newly released coin. Especially a business strike, for the above reasons and others. I can't help but wonder what all of this is doing to pcgs' reputation. If they make these kind of mistakes on new coins, which there are millions of, what about those really rare coins that they have graded in the past, and will continue to do so in the future? Will anybody be able to look at their slabs with unshakable confidence? And, as a leader in the hobby/industry, I think that their refusal to take a stand on the sf issue and the problems that have occurred has to have hurt them more than help them.
Maybe its time to let the coins go and maybe collect stamps!
I've vented enough for this week.
Tim
On the bright side, I heard the actions taken with those non-SF nickels may have "smoked out" the problem coins. That is good for everyone - INCLUDING, IMHO, the collector who owned it thinking he had purchased something special for his $1,200.00+ and not a $100 SF mechanical error coin. The only issue that arises (as usual) is who pays for the mistakes when the collectors seek compensation for their coins. Since the 2005 MS69 Bison Nickel sold at public auction is there any recourse against the consignor of the coin to the auction? Or, is PCGS 100% responsible whether the collector paid $1,200 for the coin, or $12,000 or $120,000 or $1.2 million? Assuming PCGS has already been contacted by the holder of this coin (who had it obliterated from his registry set I presume) for compenssation, it should be interesting to see what happens when 300+ state quarters are striken from the pop report.
Wondercoin
Just to remind you - the Bison were in the wrong holders and labeled as business strike coins. They were sold according to the label as business strike coins.
The State quarters were sold as SF coins, priced accordingly and are labeled accordingly. The only error is in the PCGS database. The data base needs be corrected but there is no need to pull the coins from the registry. or coins returned to PCGS for a new holder.
For the 3 "error" submissions I am confident they are in SF holders. As far as other state quarters in non-SF holders that are really Sf coins there can't be many, The MS68 and MS69 business strikes have been tracked closely and makers and submission pretty much known. I know there is some disagreement on the OR MS68 on TT recently but for most part the pop on CA-P and CA-D is explained, MN-P has at most 1 mystery coin, all the KS MS68, WV MS68 are accounted for. I do, reserve judgment once the 3 submissions are corrected, however.
Tesoro
Wonder how much longer it's gonna be before the pops get taken care of and maybe some new variety sets?
Enough rambling. I really wanted to get this post back to the top before it disappeared to the next screen.
Nothing new? I see 15 new KS-P in MS69 (business strike) listed in the population report.
I wonder if they came from bank roll or mint bank, cello or not.
It is a good thing you are a honest dealer/seller/maker. LOL
Well Michael, you musta had 1 helluva a submission! You broke the damn data entry system!!!! Are you taking offers on those KS-p quarters? I just gotta have one! Need one of those MN-p's also. That should put me in a tie with Walt!!!! Maybe have these with an
attribution like "pcgs' fubar pop collection" so they retain or, better yet, increase in value as time goes on.
As the coin turns! Should put this soap on tv, in between reruns of snots landing, dallas and falcon crest. Better yet, just after the sapranos and before the coin vault!
Way to go
<< <i>Hats Off to you MAS3387 for doing the right thing and quickly acting on it. We need more Honest dealers like youself.........
edited to add: Michael, this was a nice coin. Good to see some of the great bidding action on this
2006 D Jefferson Return to Monticello PCGS MS67FS !!!.
We paid to ship the batch back to PCGS to correct the mistake and with time lost for sales and our return shipping cost we would be happy with this:
<< <i>PCGS should move with lightning speed to fix these label issues and return the coins over-night to encourage cooperation >>
This would be terrific, we'll see!!!!
Less than a week!!!!!
PCGS
Now if we can get all the others corrected
<< <i>PCGS should move with lightning speed to fix these label issues and return the coins over-night to encourage cooperation >>
The Mis-labeled batch of coins where received by PCGS on Monday 8-21-06. We received a call that afternoon that the corrections had been made and the coins where to ship that afternoon. We received the batch of coins yesterday!!!!
PCGS
<< <i>lightning speed >>
<< <i><< lightning speed >> >>
Nice to hear they really can move fast when they need to.
I wish they would act the same way in making a place for my 2005/2006 business strike coins.
I have soooo many to submitt, but with no place for them to reside, why bother.
My suggestion to Ron in the e-mail is to document the error decisivly if PCGS is not going to correct it so that future generations of collectors will know about the massive error. How about an offer in Coin World and Numismatic News et al for $5.00 each digital photo emailed of the obverse of a coin in this S/N range? Like PCGS did with Roger's coin would they have to fix it if they have an obverse photo of the coins? PCGS may not want that kind of publicity surrounding the error but if they will not correct it it must be documented in my opinion. If we need to advertise and collect these photos ourselves as collectors I will pay the $5 per photo and maybe others could contribute their talents to attract the photos? Expensive and time consuming yes but needed to be done in my opinion to document the error properly if PCGS will not fix it. Even if we end up with only 10-15 photos in this range and we have one from each batch (Roger already gave us the SF WV-P photo of his coin in one of the batches so only two batches to go) I think this will be enough to constitute the proof we need so writers and catalogers of future sales of true business strike rarities can refer to error in the PCGS pop report. As it is now catalogers love to refer to the pop report and when rare MS state quarters in 68 currently go for over $1,000 the general public needs to be educated about the error as more demand creates even higher values. dr
I will wait a few days to see if we can get a response or not. What do you-all think about the idea of getting a digital archive of photos of coins in this range?
Or their wish to correct the errors they have made, mechanicle or human. Just 4 months away from having the 06 coins count in the registry, marking 2 years of "and/or". It should be, "if/could-be/maybe/I-think-it-is/maybe-not/who-knows/your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine/what-do-you-mean-you-bought-sight-unseen/only-a-dufuss-would-buy-sight-unseen/I-think-PCGS-did-the-right-thing/why?/because-who-can-tell-the-difference?".
Only sure way to get your SF's graded right. Buy yourself a red sharpie, and mark "in large RED letters"
, SF on each coin you send in. This will give you a 50/50 chance of getting them back in the correct holder.
For business strikes, send in only circulated coins. This will give you the same odds listed above.
because of pcgs and their stand on this issue, which at this point, as far as the general public is concerned, admit nothing and do nothing.
And 2 because I still have hope that they will get off their ass' (I appologize to those of you who find this offensive) and do whats right. You know, clean up the pops, and do the variety thing to the registry so there is a greater demand for these circulating coins, like there used to be before yet another marketing ploy by the mint.
I want to say something else while I'm on this roll. I hated selling my shq's, but, I have lost some of my passion for this set. There was no question of that passion till this and/or situation came about. I admit, I got caught up in the competetive aspect of the registry, without
a doubt. And I also have no doubts that the "competitive" aspect was the very reason for the advent of the registry. Viscious circle that one! Create a market for slabs, then give the owners of them a way to show them off, and then rank the sets so the owners of these slabs compete with other owners, thus the creation of greater demand, inflated prices, and oh yeah, if so and so is getting that much for said coin in such and such grade, I just have to submit 100 coins so I can make some of that $ from those easy to find high grade coins. I honestly think that pcgs will lose in the long run if they don't get back on track with this and clean up after themselves. I am seriously thinking of dumping every quarter I have, buying slabbed 66's, maybe those from across the street, who knows, and cracking em out to put them into an album. That is how bad a taste I have in my mouth at this time. Of course I would really have to love the coins to keep em around, cause you know they ain't worth nothing but 25c each unless the plastic says its so and so!!!! No stress, truly a blissful state!
Doug, you have taken a lot on yourself. And quite honestly, you shouldn't have to be in this position, or feel like you need to take this on. Why is it that you as a collector/maker/dealer should even have to consider this? There is no doubt about your love for the coins, and your desire to preserve the best for future generations. It's quite admirable, and we all know your motives are beyond reproach. But pcgs is raking in big $ to grade and slab these. Why is it that it comes down to a collector, or group of collectors, that have to clean up behind pcgs? And at what cost to said group? It's nothing but a win win situation for pcgs. Quite honestly, we are enabling them to be this way.
Doug, that is a great idea with the pics. Now if you can just get the owners of these "mechanical" errors to cooperate. Hell I will send you my WV-p slab if you think it will help you. I have to wonder what pcgs' response would be if an ad was in fact printed in one of the major coin publications. And at the same time, would there be any litigation to come about if that was to happen? You have to remember, pcgs is in California, and Califonians are suit happy!!!!!
I'm done venting.......LOL Someone pass me a zima, I've worked up quite a thirst after that one!
Edited to add: That HRH is a genius!!!!
As for the POP reports. I do not think any grading service will try to reprocess all SF/circ coins to fix this situation.
I could be wrong, I have been before.
Thanks to all of you.
Al
I am on eBay as "innerharborcoins"
Great to here thoughts
I am on eBay as "innerharborcoins"
I myself would have no involvement, I've been lucky enough (so far)to get exactly what I paid for. But I can sure feel for all the ones who have paid, and trusted PCGS, to grade their coins correctly. And or bought SIGHT UNSEEN coins in a PCGS holder that were not as labled. You can call some mechanical, but as long as a HUMAN is proofing these before they are shipped, then HUMAN error is a fact.
We all know there are more than one type error coming from PCGS these days, software may be one, but SF coins in business strike holders is a human error all day every day. We've been told inspectors check the coins after they are put in holders, quality control is a HUMAN error.
Not something I would do. I can't see what's to be gained after the lawyers etc...... But it's an interesting thought. For the record, I think one of the biggest problems with our nation today is there are so many frivolous law suits that should never be allowed in the court system. Let alone the huge $ awarded in some of these actions.
I hung on to all the 05 and 06 quarters. Both types. Except for the Ks-d business strike. A fellow collector offered more than twice the amount that I paid for it. Under the circumstances I had to accept the offer. 40% of the bills have been handled. Now to the other half.
A big "thank you" to those of you that bought some of my collection. And a big "thank you" to all who have shown concern, and for the kind statements. I had no clue there were so many caring folk wondering around these forums.
rb
<< <i>If litigation comes from the pop report screw up it will more likely be RB suing PCGS for the loss of value of his MS68 coins he is trying to sell due to the false and knowingly false gross miss-representation overstatement of the 2005 MS vs SF state quarters in the pop report.
Not something I would do. I can't see what's to be gained after the lawyers etc...... But it's an interesting thought. For the record, I think one of the biggest problems with our nation today is there are so many frivolous law suits that should never be allowed in the court system. Let alone the huge $ awarded in some of these actions.
I hung on to all the 05 and 06 quarters. Both types. Except for the Ks-d business strike. A fellow collector offered more than twice the amount that I paid for it. Under the circumstances I had to accept the offer. 40% of the bills have been handled. Now to the other half.
A big "thank you" to those of you that bought some of my collection. And a big "thank you" to all who have shown concern, and for the kind statements. I had no clue there were so many caring folk wondering around these forums.
rb >>
I agree about the lawyers and frivolous lawsuits today. I do not think people realize how much the lawsuit impact everyone else. From things like insurance rates, to costs of goods and services we all suffer in the end from things such as this.
As far as people caring, I agree. There are a lot of really great people here. It is good to hear you are making some progress on those darn bills. I hope things continue to go well for you and your family and hope your wife is feeling better.
Zach
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!