I'll hit 700 with some more news - the MS69 Bison (SF mechanical error) was submitted along with an MS67 coin - so it appears at least (1) of the MS67 Bison's on the pop report is also an SF coin.
Good progress between 600-700. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The selected PCGS Certification Number 10553975, was not found in the PCGS Certification Database. If you believe this to be incorrect, please check the number and try again.
OK when are they going to realize that varieties now exist in all the series. Isn't a variety any coin that can be recognized with the naked eye. If a grader can tell the difference in a MS66 and a MS67. They sure better be able to tell the difference in a business strike and a satin finish mint set coin.
All it take is the graders doing there jobs, and expanding the existing sets.
I have made my statement on my Kennedy set header, I will remove it when they decide to do the set the way they should have done ----- A Circulation Strike set is a Circulation Strike set. Send the SF to there proper home.
Dan
U S Navy Retired 22 years - ENC(SW) Ret. - Travling Nuclear Maintanence Contractor - Working Indian Point Nuclear plant Buchanan New York
Well it looks like more Satin Finish coins are being sold as Business strikes again. There is a thread on the US Coin Forum about a group selling on TeleTrade today. Link
Note that a lot of posters feel these are SF coins. I do too. Glad I allready have a true MS 67 Kennedy in a BS holder.
What a crock. The surfaces look too granular to be anything but sf. And there seems to be no variance between the forground and background surfaces. There's gonna be some mad buyers when the dust all settles. Its too bad TT will make $ off of these no matter what becomes of them, seller fee's, buyer fee's, and let's not forget the fee's to return an item. This is sad indeed.
I alerted Teletrade about the MS68 (likely mislabeled) Bison nickel and I could not find it at auction today - did they pull the coin from the auction?
I think most folks want to do the right thing once they are informed of the circumstances. Too bad we did not prepare a list of additional lots Teletrade needed to take a hard look at. Perhaps something to do in the future.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I alerted Teletrade about the MS68 (likely mislabeled) Bison nickel and I could not find it at auction today - did they pull the coin from the auction?
I think most folks want to do the right thing once they are informed of the circumstances. Too bad we did not prepare a list of additional lots Teletrade needed to take a hard look at. Perhaps something to do in the future.
If TT did pull the coin, maybe they will also make the sellers and the buyers whole on last nights auctions in question. Then the coins can be sent back to PCGS for correct labels. It's too bad they consider these to be "Mechanical Errors" and as such I don't think there is any compensation to be made. The buyer is supposed to know the obvious. But that is really hard to determine before hand due to the quality of the pictures you see in auction listings.
That OR-P in MS68 has a cert number 10553980. The rogue batches we have identified are 73689011 - 73689510. Can John or somewone investigate this batch where this new cert came from? What is the scope of this new batch? Is this a legit coin or did it come from another mixed problematic batch? Is this a reholder batch where the SF holder has been given the slip from the known SN range? I could not tell for certain from the picture if it is a SF OR-P or not although it does look SF the picture is not as high of quality as some others I have seen. The CA-P in MS67 sold on TT is a SF coin though based on the picture so this does not look good for any of these in this sale. I am not a so concerned about the 67's since they sell for less than $50 and are fairly common. Is PCGS making mistakes? and others capitalizing on them via Teletrade where the seller can remain nameless? An OR-P in SF 68 worth around $15 not the $700 this one sold for as an MS coin. PCGS can hire me for big bucks to help them differentiate, it is childs play, an embarrassment to me to see this. dr
>>>>>I'll hit 700 with some more news - the MS69 Bison (SF mechanical error) was submitted along with an MS67 coin - so it appears at least (1) of the MS67 Bison's on the pop report is also an SF coin.
There is a 2005-D Lincoln that was in that same lot on teletrade that was graded MS69 that appeared to be a satin finish also 2005-D ms69 Lincoln
I see the nickels are removed from the pop reports but this one still survives !!!!!!!
"it is childs play, an embarrassment to me to see this"
Doug: But yet, I may have been the only one to have taken the time to contact Teletrade (and between emails and phone calls - rest assured that it took a great deal of time out of my day) to alert them to the MS68 Bison nickel, discuss the situation and the actions they might consider)? With all those questionable coins at auction Sunday and the comments that distressed sales prices on those coins hurts all the different coin series and "hunters" trying to make "true" examples, why didn't Teletrade get a barrage of emails from all those concerned? I can't do it alone.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I am just a novice collector of state quarters. As far as taking steps I did alert you on the MS68 Bison early, warned you about the dime. I thank you for your efforts. I also must defend Doug as I sent him and Datentype a link to the auction to get their opinion on the OR-P MS68 either while the auction was active or after it closed, as I wanted their thoughts as I regard them both as experts.
The problem with notifying Teletrade most of us collectors have never listed coins, and only bought coins from Teletrade. If I need to be more proactive please let me know. I have been part of a massive effort to clean up the SQ SF sanfu and have seen no results from PCGS as of yet.
Again in IMHO it would appear that this latest batch of coins are HIGHLY suspect. Why doesn't the unknown seller stand up and defend his actions? From my viewpoint most of us have no clout with PCGS.
Tesoro - Defend Doug on what? No one is attacking Doug and, even if anyone did in the future, Doug is quite capable of defending himself.
Bottom line - talking about the issues here is fine - alerting the auction companies to the problem coins I believe is a very good idea -they all have numismatists on staff and should be able to identify mechanical errors. Yes, I believe everyone should be more proactive. And, it would be great for sellers of mechanical errors to "stand up" and defend their actions - but, don't hold your breathe.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I just realized the CA-P MS 67 coin SN 10553982 and the OR-P MS 68 coin SN 10553980 are from the same batch so I think this is the first documented case I am aware of where SF coins in MS holders are being sold as MS coins thereby creating a liability in the market place for the state quarters as well as the nickels, halves, dollars, dimes we already knew had problems. This is a sad day for me. Up until now there were no state quarter errors like this documented. I really want to know when this batch was graded and who was the grader finalizer. That grader finalizer is not qualified to do modern coins in my opinion. They may be great in other series but as I stated before on this thread the modern coin market is dynamic and changing almost with each new release so modern coin expertise is something developed on a current not a nostalgic basis like morgan or peace dollars for example that have not been minted in over 60 years. I thought PCGS finalizers made big bucks? Can't they hire Mark from Datentype or someone to help, someone to order stuff from the mint and look at it before they grade coins submitted to them? If you do not look at quantites from new mint product it would be difficult to access the new mint releases submitted for grading. With the real estate market in decline they may be able to afford me soon enough! What are they going to do about other new releases and new series coming out? Is PCGS just going to hire nostalgic graders to guess at the moderns or will they step up and hire a qualified modern coin finalizer that is willing to keep up with what the mint is doing? Maybe I should start a service like eagle eye coins to designate on the PCGS holder if they did it right or not? Those of you that use ANAC's and NGC are they making these obvious mistakes too? I recently looked at a 2005-D Kennedy half in PCGS MS67 that had SF frost on the top of the shield and between the shield lines. I have never seen a mint state Kennedy like that. I would think even a nostalgic grader could get that one right..... dr
Doug: The President of Teletrade (Ian Russell) wants to be made aware of mechanical errors being auctioned on his site. He pulled the MS68 Bison nickel on Sunday and I believe he is prepared to do the right thing wherever he has notice of a problem. Let's keep a careful eye on how these coins are being sold to the public.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I took Mitch's advice and emailed TT (Ian J Russell) in response to an advertisement they sent me. I should have done this last night, but was just plain tired from catching up with the chores around the house. It's been hot hot hot here in northern calif. and it seems that as I get older it takes a bigger toll on my energy level.
Mitch your suggestion is a good one. Here is Ian's email: ianr@teletrade.com. I don't know if we can stop last nights shipments from going out, but if enough of us contact them, I would bet they start looking closer at all 05 issued coins that are not designated satin finish. Maybe if we send them a list of all the known cert #'s it will speed up the process of getting them back to pcgs for proper designation. Who knows? It can't make the situation any worse than it already is.
Doug, you can't go to work for pcgs. NO WAY, NO HOW!!!! Then you wouldn't be able to find us the gorgeous coins you hunt for so dilligently. LOL Just look at Cameron, he doesn't sell coins anymore since he went to work as a grader. Don't think that stopped him from chasing women tho!!!!
Last night I mentioned that I had emailed Ian Russell about the lots we thought were satin finish coins. I'm happy to say I got a response from Ian and it is very positive. Here is what I sent and the response I received.
Hello Ian
My name is Roger Byrd, and first and formost this is not a complaint about TT or your services. I have had nothing but great service from TT. You guys have been nothing but fast and courteous. I have had the pleasure to have had the opportunity to call a couple of times, didn't do the death hold, and your staff was helpful and very professional.
I am writing this in regards to a few coins from last Sunday's auction. They are all 05 coins, that are in business strike holders. BUT the coins appeared to be satin finish to me. Pcgs has had a few submissions get out that were mislabeled and therefore considered mechanical errors. Be that as it may, there is a group of us collectors that thought we had identified all the state quarters affected, but I think after last night, it appears there was another submission that got out that we had not seen and identified.
I understand that you have qualified numismatists on your staff. I would suggest that before you auction off any 05 coins that are not designated SF, that you have your staff verify that the coins are indeed a business strike coin. If you haven't sent out these lots yet, you may want to hold up shipment. There was 1 lot, 1355, but I guess it was pulled.
Thank you for your time and I hope you can still adress this issue
Sincerely
Roger Byrd
These are the lots:
Auction 2223 • Lot 1166 Auction 2223 • Lot 2436 Auction 2223 • Lot 1476 Auction 2223 • Lot 2441 Auction 2223 • Lot 2449 Auction 2223 • Lot 2569 Auction 2223 • Lot 1788
---------------
Dear Mr. Byrd,
Thank you for your e-mail and letting us know about the other lot numbers. I am checking into this and will contact all buyers/consignors involved.
While we are going to keep a closer eye on this issue - if you notice any potential errors - please let me know.
Again, thank you for bringing to our attention.
Best regards,
- Ian
-- Ian Russell, President Teletrade, Inc. http://www.teletrade.com/ Tel: 800.949.2646; Cell: 949.510.5310 Fax: 949.250.9290; E-mail: ianr@teletrade.com
---------------
Mr Ian Russell,
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate your integrity, and at the same time hope that I am wrong about the coins. Be that as it may, this is ultimately a problem that pcgs needs to address.
Let me give you a little bit of the history with this issue, so you have a better insight as to what is going on. I originally bought a pcgs ms69 sf wv-p last summer/fall. I went to enter it into my registry set and it showed up as a ms-69 coin w/o the sf designation in the pop report, yet it was in the satin finish slab that pcgs came out with last year. So a few pics were sent back and forth with pcgs and the pop error for that particular coin was corrected To make a long story short, there turned out to be a lot of errors in the pop's, which have been identified and brought to the attention of pcgs. To date, the pop's haven't been corrected, although we have been told that corrections are in progress.
The lots from Sunday are the first that have been noticed as what appears to be sf coins in a normal holder, w/o the sf designation. Thus they are considered "business strikes" and therefore quite a bit rarer, thus the strong bids. I believe Mitchell Spivack brought lot 1355 to your attention. Thus it's removal from the auction. Well done on both your parts.
Perhaps, if you, as the president of a major auction house, were to contact pcgs, you might be able to speed the corrections up. A few collectors, myself included, don't seem to have had a strong enough impact to have pcgs address this issue with any kind of firm response. In the meantime coin values remain an issue, due to incorrect pops, that is not to my knowlege known to the general public.
Any help you can give is and would be greatly appreciated by a lot of avid modern coin collectors.
Thank you,
Roger Byrd
I probably should have told Ian that I was going to post this correspondance in a public forum. I mean no harm to him or his company. And this is what I would consider nothing but good advertisement for Teletrade. I honestly am impressed with the man's integrity. And for those of you that won the lots in question, I appologize if they are late arriving. To the consignors, I also appologize if this causes undue hard- ship. As stated, this is an issue that pcgs needs to address. Hopefully Ian will help us all by making contact with pcgs and pushing the issue from an angle that us collectors don't seem to have.
All this from a collector who until this post was just one to lurk on these boards, well an occasional post here and there.
Great job Roger! Ian also contacted me today and it appears he plans to closely examine the coins that got auctioned off last Sunday before they ship out.
Wondercoin
P.S. Teletrade has taken the position in its print ads that it is THE place to buy and sell both classics and MODERNS. I am very pleased to see Ian stepping up to the plate to address these issues!!
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
"Yes, I believe everyone should be more proactive."
Mitch, your above statement motivated the correspondence. I am just as guilty as most when it come to complaining and not making an effort to correct a problem. I to am very pleased to see Ian stepping up to the plate to address these issues!!
Now if only HRH would take a moment to respond to this post. If nothing else, it would let us all know that he is in fact addressing this issue. If nothing else, it might generate a little more confidence in pcgs, which sadly, seems to be lacking, as far as the 2005 regular issue coins is concerned.
Gee Roger .... I think that must be the most you said at one time. Well worded, to the point, outstanding.
Tim
Now, if we could only find a home for the orphans. I think Mr. David Hall wants them to get sunstoked next, he won't let them in with their brothers ... what a mean guy.
As a matter of fact, there was a follow up from Teletrade today. Ian Russell called me this afternoon to inform me that PCGS regraded the (8) coins in last week's auction today and (6) were changed to SF (2 remained as non-SF). Great job Ian and PCGS!
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>As a matter of fact, there was a follow up from Teletrade today. Ian Russell called me this afternoon to inform me that PCGS regraded the (8) coins in last week's auction today and (6) were changed to SF (2 remained as non-SF). Great job Ian and PCGS! >>
That is great news! Now if the rest of us could get turn arounds on submissions like TT did, PCGS stock would go through the roof. Mitch, any news on the orphans?
<< <i>As a matter of fact, there was a follow up from Teletrade today. Ian Russell called me this afternoon to inform me that PCGS regraded the (8) coins in last week's auction today and (6) were changed to SF (2 remained as non-SF). Great job Ian and PCGS! >>
I still think the Roosevelt dime was a business strike, but it can be tough to tell from a picture.
The OR-p and KS-d retained their original designations. The other 6 coins were corrected to sf (downgraded IMO).
I think Ian Russell deserves a big pat on the back for dealing with this situation in a quick and professional manner. The person that bid the Or-p quarter was a newcomer to Teletrade. Yep, this was the first auction he participated in. And this is part of what he had to say about the deal:
"I was impressed that they (TT) actually took the time to take the coins back to PCGS and have them looked at again before sending them out. He (Ian Russell) said there were lots of emails, besides mine, that prompted him to get them looked at again. Makes me feel better that PCGS assured them that my coin was a true business strike and not a satin finish. They (Ian Russell) also said that if I am not happy once the coin is in hand, they would waive any fees on returning the coin. This is my first purchase from Teletrade, and am waiting to get the coin and hoping that it is a business strike. I was hoping to get a second opinion once I receive the coin."
Ok Dave, if your looking at this thread (ya lurker!) Michael as expressed a desire to see the OR-p quarter, so if you indeed want to get another opinion, drop him a line at his email address. I know you have it, but if you can't find it pm me or email me and I will gladly give it to you.
"Gee Roger .... I think that must be the most you said at one time. Well worded, to the point, outstanding."
Tim I was having a one of those lucid moments that just come out of the blue! I really don't know what came over me!!!
I feel much better now with the cooperation between Teletrade and PCGS it is very pleasing to see that the misslabeled coins did not get out into the market place so once again to my personal knowledge the state quarters are free from labeling errors (not data base errors). As I stated 6/26 on the thread it was not conclusive looking at the picture on TT if that OR-P in 68 was SF or not and since PCGS did look at it again I think it probably is the real deal as they do come very bright when they come nice in MS condition (Mark and I both found 68's and I was happy to buy the 69 Mark found). If there is an inquisition held over the OR-P in 68 I can send my extra OR-P in 68 to the judges for comparison but my gut feeling is the TT OR-P in MS68 is legit but it still confuses me why anyone would send in a mixed batch like that. The experienced modern mint set submitters I have spoken to do not send in mixed batches. I still feel the best policy is not to allow mixed batches of SF and MS coins. Since you only need five coins for a modern $14 per coin submission I do not feel that is a financial hardship on anyone to not allow mixed batches and again and again the labeling errors found occur with mixed batches. If PCGS confirms a mixed batch then all the coins in the batch should be defaulted to SF that are vastly less valuable than MS and that would discourage any of those that may purposefully be sending in mixed batches hoping for a bonus misslabeld coin as a result. I am more confident now that PCGS is taking this as seriously as we are and that is good for all us that have stepped up and made the investment of time and money for these rare MS coins. Thanks to all those that helped as reported on this thread. Like a novel worth keeping up with but I will be in Alaska fishing next week so will see what new excitement may emerge when I get back! Hopefully that troublesome S/N range will be properly reflected in the PCGS data base and pop report as SF coins as they should be. Great effort by PCGS, Teletrade and all you that got involved with this latest save of errors getting out into the market! dr
OK.. The 2006 mint sets are due out, so it's been a year since the business strike coins have been regulated to second class status. Now it sounds as though Mitch is saying PCGS will make a place for the state quarters in a variety set. The rest of us can only hope sets for other denominations will "SOON" follow.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sure is dead around here. Wonder how Doug did on that fishing trip in Alaska? Well, seems like the pops are still the same, maybe they will be cleaned up by the time the 07 mint sets are released!
Comments
Good progress between 600-700.
Wondercoin
EDIT: looks like it closed at $127 Link
Just pulled this coin from a Mint bag, it seems to have an E floating in space with the astronaut
A dropped letter Error???
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2223&lot=1355
Auction 2223, Lot 1355
Sunday, June 25, 2006, from 3:00pm-10:00pm ET
Nickel 2005P Bison PCGS 68 - (code -1186)
The selected PCGS Certification Number 10553975, was not found in the PCGS Certification Database. If you believe this to be incorrect, please check the number and try again.
Wondercoin
P.S. Proof positive that the "clean up" is underway and is achieving the desired goal
Nice Sac on your signature line
Glad I was able to pick this one up
Roger PM sent
<< <i>Any news about Orphans having a home? >>
OK when are they going to realize that varieties now exist in all the series. Isn't a variety any coin that can be recognized with the naked eye. If a grader can tell the difference in a MS66 and a MS67. They sure better be able to tell the difference in a business strike and a satin finish mint set coin.
All it take is the graders doing there jobs, and expanding the existing sets.
Dan
">Franklin Halves
">Kennedy Halves
There is a thread on the US Coin Forum about a group selling on TeleTrade today.
Link
Note that a lot of posters feel these are SF coins. I do too.
Glad I allready have a true MS 67 Kennedy in a BS holder.
I think most folks want to do the right thing once they are informed of the circumstances. Too bad we did not prepare a list of additional lots Teletrade needed to take a hard look at. Perhaps something to do in the future.
Wondercoin
I think most folks want to do the right thing once they are informed of the circumstances. Too bad we did not prepare a list of additional lots Teletrade needed to take a hard look at. Perhaps something to do in the future.
If TT did pull the coin, maybe they will also make the sellers and the buyers whole on last nights auctions in question. Then the coins can be sent back to PCGS for correct labels. It's too bad they consider these to be "Mechanical Errors" and as such I don't think there is any compensation to be made. The buyer is supposed to know the obvious. But that is really hard to determine before hand due to the quality of the pictures you see in auction listings.
Dan I hope your right on that Roosie.
If these are satin finish coins, they will hold down the value of legitimate business strikes, on the 2005 P Bison Nickel and 2005 P Half for example.
On the other hand whoever has these on teletrade is going to score !!!!!!!!!
There is a 2005-D Lincoln that was in that same lot on teletrade that was graded MS69 that appeared to be a satin finish also 2005-D ms69 Lincoln
I see the nickels are removed from the pop reports but this one still survives !!!!!!!
Doug: But yet, I may have been the only one to have taken the time to contact Teletrade (and between emails and phone calls - rest assured that it took a great deal of time out of my day) to alert them to the MS68 Bison nickel, discuss the situation and the actions they might consider)? With all those questionable coins at auction Sunday and the comments that distressed sales prices on those coins hurts all the different coin series and "hunters" trying to make "true" examples, why didn't Teletrade get a barrage of emails from all those concerned? I can't do it alone.
Wondercoin
I am just a novice collector of state quarters. As far as taking steps I did alert you on the MS68 Bison early, warned you about the dime. I thank you for your efforts. I also must defend Doug as I sent him and Datentype a link to the auction to get their opinion on the OR-P MS68 either while the auction was active or after it closed, as I wanted their thoughts as I regard them both as experts.
The problem with notifying Teletrade most of us collectors have never listed coins, and only bought coins from Teletrade. If I need to be more proactive please let me know. I have been part of a massive effort to clean up the SQ SF sanfu and have seen no results from PCGS as of yet.
Again in IMHO it would appear that this latest batch of coins are HIGHLY suspect. Why doesn't the unknown seller stand up and defend his actions? From my viewpoint most of us have no clout with PCGS.
Tesoro - Defend Doug on what? No one is attacking Doug and, even if anyone did in the future, Doug is quite capable of defending himself.
Bottom line - talking about the issues here is fine - alerting the auction companies to the problem coins I believe is a very good idea -they all have numismatists on staff and should be able to identify mechanical errors. Yes, I believe everyone should be more proactive. And, it would be great for sellers of mechanical errors to "stand up" and defend their actions - but, don't hold your breathe.
Wondercoin
Doug: The President of Teletrade (Ian Russell) wants to be made aware of mechanical errors being auctioned on his site. He pulled the MS68 Bison nickel on Sunday and I believe he is prepared to do the right thing wherever he has notice of a problem. Let's keep a careful eye on how these coins are being sold to the public.
Wondercoin
Mitch your suggestion is a good one. Here is Ian's email: ianr@teletrade.com. I don't know if we can stop last nights shipments from going out, but if enough of us contact them, I would bet they start looking closer at all 05 issued coins that are not designated satin finish. Maybe if we send them a list of all the known cert #'s it will speed up the process of getting them back to pcgs for proper designation. Who knows? It can't make the situation any worse than it already is.
Doug, you can't go to work for pcgs. NO WAY, NO HOW!!!! Then you wouldn't be able to find us the gorgeous coins you hunt for so dilligently. LOL Just look at Cameron, he doesn't sell coins anymore since he went to work as a grader. Don't think that stopped him from chasing women tho!!!!
were satin finish coins. I'm happy to say I got a response from Ian and it is very
positive. Here is what I sent and the response I received.
Hello Ian
My name is Roger Byrd, and first and formost this is not a complaint about
TT or your services. I have had nothing but great service from TT. You guys
have been nothing but fast and courteous. I have had the pleasure to have had
the opportunity to call a couple of times, didn't do the death hold, and your
staff was helpful and very professional.
I am writing this in regards to a few coins from last Sunday's auction. They are
all 05 coins, that are in business strike holders. BUT the coins appeared to be
satin finish to me. Pcgs has had a few submissions get out that were mislabeled
and therefore considered mechanical errors. Be that as it may, there is a group
of us collectors that thought we had identified all the state quarters affected, but
I think after last night, it appears there was another submission that got out that
we had not seen and identified.
I understand that you have qualified numismatists on your staff. I would suggest
that before you auction off any 05 coins that are not designated SF, that you have
your staff verify that the coins are indeed a business strike coin. If you haven't sent
out these lots yet, you may want to hold up shipment. There was 1 lot, 1355,
but I guess it was pulled.
Thank you for your time and I hope you can still adress this issue
Sincerely
Roger Byrd
These are the lots:
Auction 2223 • Lot 1166 Auction 2223 • Lot 2436 Auction 2223 • Lot 1476 Auction 2223 • Lot 2441
Auction 2223 • Lot 2449 Auction 2223 • Lot 2569 Auction 2223 • Lot 1788
---------------
Dear Mr. Byrd,
Thank you for your e-mail and letting us know about the other lot numbers.
I am checking into this and will contact all buyers/consignors involved.
While we are going to keep a closer eye on this issue - if you notice any
potential errors - please let me know.
Again, thank you for bringing to our attention.
Best regards,
- Ian
--
Ian Russell, President
Teletrade, Inc.
http://www.teletrade.com/
Tel: 800.949.2646; Cell: 949.510.5310
Fax: 949.250.9290; E-mail: ianr@teletrade.com
---------------
Mr Ian Russell,
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate your integrity, and at the
same time hope that I am wrong about the coins. Be that as it may, this is
ultimately a problem that pcgs needs to address.
Let me give you a little bit of the history with this issue, so you have a better
insight as to what is going on. I originally bought a pcgs ms69 sf wv-p last
summer/fall. I went to enter it into my registry set and it showed up as a
ms-69 coin w/o the sf designation in the pop report, yet it was in the satin
finish slab that pcgs came out with last year. So a few pics were sent back
and forth with pcgs and the pop error for that particular coin was corrected
To make a long story short, there turned out to be a lot of errors in the pop's,
which have been identified and brought to the attention of pcgs. To date,
the pop's haven't been corrected, although we have been told that corrections
are in progress.
The lots from Sunday are the first that have been noticed as what appears
to be sf coins in a normal holder, w/o the sf designation. Thus they are
considered "business strikes" and therefore quite a bit rarer, thus the strong
bids. I believe Mitchell Spivack brought lot 1355 to your attention. Thus
it's removal from the auction. Well done on both your parts.
Perhaps, if you, as the president of a major auction house, were to contact
pcgs, you might be able to speed the corrections up. A few collectors,
myself included, don't seem to have had a strong enough impact to have
pcgs address this issue with any kind of firm response. In the meantime
coin values remain an issue, due to incorrect pops, that is not to my knowlege
known to the general public.
Any help you can give is and would be greatly appreciated by a lot of avid
modern coin collectors.
Thank you,
Roger Byrd
I probably should have told Ian that I was going to post this correspondance
in a public forum. I mean no harm to him or his company. And this is what I would
consider nothing but good advertisement for Teletrade. I honestly am impressed with
the man's integrity. And for those of you that won the lots in question, I appologize if
they are late arriving. To the consignors, I also appologize if this causes undue hard-
ship. As stated, this is an issue that pcgs needs to address. Hopefully Ian will help
us all by making contact with pcgs and pushing the issue from an angle that us collectors
don't seem to have.
All this from a collector who until this post was just one to lurk on these boards, well
an occasional post here and there.
Wondercoin
P.S. Teletrade has taken the position in its print ads that it is THE place to buy and sell both classics and MODERNS. I am very pleased to see Ian stepping up to the plate to address these issues!!
Mitch, your above statement motivated the correspondence. I am just as guilty as most when it come to complaining and not making an effort to correct a problem. I to am very pleased to see Ian stepping up to the plate to address these issues!!
Now if only HRH would take a moment to respond to this post. If nothing else, it would let us all know that he is in fact addressing this
issue. If nothing else, it might generate a little more confidence in pcgs, which sadly, seems to be lacking, as far as the 2005 regular issue
coins is concerned.
Tim
Now, if we could only find a home for the orphans. I think Mr. David Hall wants them to get sunstoked next, he won't let them in with their brothers ... what a mean guy.
Wondercoin.
<< <i>As a matter of fact, there was a follow up from Teletrade today. Ian Russell called me this afternoon to inform me that PCGS regraded the (8) coins in last week's auction today and (6) were changed to SF (2 remained as non-SF). Great job Ian and PCGS! >>
That is great news! Now if the rest of us could get turn arounds on submissions like TT did, PCGS stock would go through the roof. Mitch, any news on the orphans?
Tim
Wondercoin.
<< <i>As a matter of fact, there was a follow up from Teletrade today. Ian Russell called me this afternoon to inform me that PCGS regraded the (8) coins in last week's auction today and (6) were changed to SF (2 remained as non-SF). Great job Ian and PCGS! >>
I still think the Roosevelt dime was a business strike, but it can be tough to tell from a picture.
I think Ian Russell deserves a big pat on the back for dealing with this situation in a quick and professional manner. The person that bid
the Or-p quarter was a newcomer to Teletrade. Yep, this was the first auction he participated in. And this is part of what he had to say
about the deal:
"I was impressed that they (TT) actually took the time to take the coins back to PCGS and have them looked at again before sending them out. He (Ian Russell) said there were lots of emails, besides mine, that prompted him to get them looked at again. Makes me feel better that PCGS assured them that my coin was a true business strike and not a satin finish. They (Ian Russell) also said that if I am not happy once the coin is in hand, they would waive any fees on returning the coin. This is my first purchase from Teletrade, and am waiting to get the coin and hoping that it is a business strike. I was hoping to get a second opinion once I receive the coin."
Ok Dave, if your looking at this thread (ya lurker!) Michael as expressed a desire to see the OR-p quarter, so if you indeed want to get another opinion, drop him a line at his email address. I know you have it, but if you can't find it pm me or email me and I will gladly give it to you.
"Gee Roger .... I think that must be the most you said at one time. Well worded, to the point, outstanding."
Tim I was having a one of those lucid moments that just come out of the blue! I really don't know what came over me!!!
Now it sounds as though Mitch is saying PCGS will make a place for the state quarters in a variety set. The rest of us can only hope sets for other denominations will "SOON" follow.