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Official NFL HOF autograph set thread???

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  • Puppeluv:

    PM sent!!!
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    lol, does that pm have to do with a certain $95 dollar bid (;
    Nathan Wagner
  • Nathan:

    Yes, it was exactly about that, actually I am the first bidder, LOL!!!
    Know let me tell you I was in contact with Chris (Puppeluv) yesterday and got me thinking a lot about it, so here is the story for all of you.

    Please advice.
    "To Bid or not to Bid"

    I first thought Puppeluv was the seller, since he as the seller live in California, too bad I was wrong, LOL!!!!

    I was explaining both Puppeluv and the seller that it is the second time I have seen this autograph but that I had some questions since It has some things different from the one I had from Rod last year!!! (Curves in J, B and T). But certainly looks close to it!!!

    The first time I saw this autograph was last December it was being sold to me at what "I considered a high price" but I thought it was a high risk because I was not sure if it was real, secretarial or something else.
    So I choose to let it go.
    Then I found it a couple of days ago since its on my searching list on eBay and there it was with a starting bid of $95, and I though that for that price it might worth the risk and bring it to Mexico!!!
    I've been in contact with the seller since there is another item he has I am also interested in.

    I am posting pictures of both autographs for you to give me your opinion, any advice will be welcomed.

    Chris:
    Thanks for your advice and I will let you know how it ends. Also it's a good thing we signed Boldin, we will certainly miss Crabtree, but still we are one of the best teams!!!!

    Go Niners!!!!


    Here are the 2 pictures for everyone to advice about it please:

    This is the photo offered to me in December:

    image

    This is the picture know on ebay:

    image

    They are playing with my feelings, LOL!!!!

    My best wishes to all of you guys!!!
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    I honestly can't say about the autograph itself, but the UKRedskins thing would keep me from buying it. Just seeing that reminded me of the name and the reputation I've heard they have for selling fakes. Again, not saying everything they sell is fake, but they have sold a fair amount of fake autographs.
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    Yeah i made a trade offer for it a couple days ago, i figured you may want it, i wont put a bid in then. Good luck with it (: in the mean time this items been mailed already, does anybody think theres a shot that this item is ink and not a photo copy?

    Text
    Nathan Wagner
  • raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Yeah i made a trade offer for it a couple days ago, i figured you may want it, i wont put a bid in then. Good luck with it (: in the mean time this items been mailed already, does anybody think theres a shot that this item is ink and not a photo copy?

    Text >>



    It looks ink, but it's Jim's son Jack that signed it....
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
  • PuppeluvPuppeluv Posts: 115
    Thank you Cesar !
    I emailed Cesar about this item because he was the only one I knew who had a Tony Morabito and I wanted his opinion. He told me the story about it and it is definitely the same cut that was offered on The UKRedskins site last Xmas.
    So I am glad I asked !
    Attractive bait.......I sincerely hope if someone here picks it up it works out positive !
    I , however, will have to pass.

    ps - Nathan you just got that AWESOME NY Giants menu ! You're banned from getting anything good for 2 months !! Board rules...you can't just make this stuff up !image
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    Raider guy i meant the thorpe part in the block that says jim thorpe 1952 not the pen inscription from 1958, its not a stamp ive seen this picture with the block in the bottom right signed in different pens and without a signature at all, the question is was it a copy or did he present Larry with an ink signature from his dad. If the pen inscription is from 1958 that means the photo was made prior to that, I believe it was issued in the 40s/50s as a publicity shot and ive seen them pass authentication. If the Thorpe is signed in ink and it does look like pen indention between the T and H where the pen wasnt working it may be good. I just need to see it in hand. If its ink its probably real if its a 1950s photo copy it was worth a 45 buck risk
    Nathan Wagner
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    ps if anybody knows anyone whos into billiards memorabilia, i have probably the greatest billiards autograph collection ever assembled for sale right now (:
    Nathan Wagner
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    Well Puppe even though I admire your two month policy I broke it today. Got that "Jack" Thorpe 8x10, and the Jim Thorpe in the block is indeed Fountain ink, and 45 dollars certainly fits my budget image
    Nathan Wagner
  • Hi everyone:

    I have been thinking a lot about collectors and sellers.
    I am a collector, I do not do this as a business and for my own piece of mind, try to think of it as an investment, but not realy looking forward to sell my autographs.
    Once I have said this, I would like to offer my humble opinion!!!
    I've had very good experience with a lot of sellers and some bad expiriece too, but I have never talk bad about any of them!!!!
    If the prices are to high or too low, Well it's our choice after al!!!!
    And it is also our choice to get things from one seller or not. I mean, we have to do our homework before we decide if we buy something or not.
    PSA and JSA make mistakes too, we have all seen autographs authenticated wich we now are nor the real deal, and also we have seen authentic autographs rejected!!!!

    What I mean is that as long as you are comfortable with an item you are buying, if you made your own desicion and decided it was a good chance, there is no one to blame!!!

    In my personal case, since I do not leave in US, it is even harder, since there is no authentication companies here, I try to get almost everything authenticated, wich finally is a third party opinion.

    But as we now its very hard and VERY EXPENSIVE to authenticate your whole collection, LOL!!!

    Anyway in the near future I will try to explain my point with some pictures of items I have in my PC for you to judge and enjoy!!!

    It is a great Hobbie, wich we should realy enjoy, so if we do our homework, we must realy feel good with our own picks, after all we are not experts, but we can certainly know what is good and what it isn't!!!!

    My best wishes
    "Trust your instincts"
    And enjoy the Hobbie!!!!

    I leave a picture of a great (unauthenticated) but certainly authentic 1937 Buck Shaw & Al Ruffo picture.
    The beginnings of my beloved 49ers!!!!


    image
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    You are just racking up the steals then, Nathan! I probably completely overlooked that item on my saved searches because I figured the price was too low to be actual ink or something along those lines. Congrats on the steal!
  • PuppeluvPuppeluv Posts: 115
    Well put Cesar - spoken like a true collector !
    Nice Buck Shaw schedule . I may be a little biased, but feel that Shaw is someone who should merit more consideration for the Hall,
    Those 'Niners teams of the AAFC and early '50s were some really great teams having the misfortune of the Browns and Lions at their best!
    And of course won a Championship with the Eagles - giving Lombardi his only Championship loss...
    Nathan.....VERY nice. Another year, another incredible Jim Thorpe find for the board ! In honor of your recent awesome-ness the 2 wk.
    " Nathan" Rule is hereby rescinded...image
  • Hello Everyone,

    BIG NEWS...

    Well, I must admit, I have trouble remembering when I have ever seen so many high end autographs changing hands in such a short period. Some of which we know about, Derrick getting his Kiesling, Lambeau, and Ford all slabbed...

    Nathan with his Tim Mara menu and an 8 x 10 which I am sure he will be proudly showing off soon,

    J.T. with his George Preston Marshall Redskins letter'

    A few which people have told me about privately, but at this time do not wish to share,

    BUT, HERE IS SOME BIG NEWS....

    I don't know very much about it, he will tell me more the next time we get together, BUT, as I have said NUMEROUS times before, I DO NOT know where he comes up with this stuff,

    but Rod has come up with a FOURTH, count 'em, FOURTH Charles Bidwill autograph. I don't know what it's signed on, but it HAS BEEN authenticated and will be in the next Huggins

    & Scott auction after the one that starts tomorrow. So...everyone that is down to just needing 2....3.....4...... Better start getting some liquid money, or clear the balance on your

    Credit card.

    GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE....BID EARLY AND BID OFTEN image

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Yeah, pretty crazy time as of late...and it's really dried up my funds, but I did get a bit lucky. I stepped outside of my comfort zone with buying a box of basketball and hit a card that I am going to be selling for around $2000 off ebay...so that will give me a bit more funds to spend on HOF autographs. Not enough to get the Bidwell, of course, but I can pick up something nice for sure!

    And speaking of my Marshall, I just got it in hand yesterday. It's an absolute beauty. I think it looks better than the scan on the auction site.

    image
  • Rocke, that's great news!!!!
    Everyone here is looking for a Bidwill, it will bring Rod a lot of bidders, LOL!!!
    I am not surprised he is using Huggins & Scott, since I saw his Fritz Pollard and his Preston Marshall on the auction that starts tomorrow!!!
    So if anyone is looking for a VERY nice Fritz Pollard or a Preston Marshal, here is your chance!!!!

    wju2004: Great letter!!!!

    I will leave you with an image of an NFL contract signed by Austin Gunsel wich completes my NFL commissioners collection, I hope you like it, the only bad thing is that the contracts folds right at his autograph.

    Please keep your fingers crossed for me I am waiting for a great item to be delivered by mail tomorrow or Monday wich will make me just 4 HOFERS away to complete my collection, being Mara and Bidwill two of them, LOL!!!!

    Hope you like the contract:

    image
  • Hello,

    J.T. That is a really sweet item. I have a Marshall check cut. Let me know if you ever want to trade your letter for my check cut plus some cash. I wouldn't mind. image

    Cesar, that is a sweet item also. Have to admit, I never really thought of getting a Gunsel, but have already added him to my watch list.

    Everyone, I know what Cesar is waiting on. Besides crossing your fingers, if you believe in GOD, maybe say a Prayer that the item Cesar is waiting for, arrives safely to him. Calling this item an EPIC pick-up, is NOT an exageration. Good Luck, Buddy. I am rooting ( and Praying ) for you.

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
  • Amazing items ! Cesar can't wait to see whats coming your way ! Bet I could guess....when you're down to the last few it can only be a few things, lol! Summer is really warming up on the board
    I may have bid on that G.P.Marshall, maybe I didn't as I figured correctly it was a little out of my range. Nice !....if I remember right there was a lot with three letters as well.
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭


    << <i>Amazing items ! Cesar can't wait to see whats coming your way ! Bet I could guess....when you're down to the last few it can only be a few things, lol! Summer is really warming up on the board
    I may have bid on that G.P.Marshall, maybe I didn't as I figured correctly it was a little out of my range. Nice !....if I remember right there was a lot with three letters as well. >>



    There were 2 single letters and a lot of 3 that was only his first name. I know who got the lot of 3, though I won't say who it is. That is up to them if they would ever want to make themselves known on that.

    And I was surprised as the other was considers a 10 out of 10, this one a 9 out of 10. Someone bid me up to a price higher than mine, which was the "9" auto. I have to say though that I still have no qualms about getting this one over the other. The other letter looks like it went to someone that was just wanting to resell it because the put it up on ebay for around $3000 OBO. Not sure if they sold it off ebay or just pulled it, but it was taken down because it was "No longer available."

    And thanks, Rocke, but I think this will definitely be my Marshall for life. I am VERY happy with it and I hope that I can find a few more nice pieces this year. I am looking forward to getting to the single digit club in the next few years.

    J. T.
  • raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭
    ceasar.....can you turn on your pm function and send me a pm asap!!!!!
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
  • Raiderguy10:

    PM sent!!! If it is easier just send me an email!!!

    Here is something for your delight, I hope you like it since believe it or not was one of the ones it took me more time to get Lol!!!

    For Raiderguy10:

    image
  • revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    A nice item I bought in last night's Legendary auction - Herber and Owen among others

    image
  • revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    Also, I didn't buy this but a friend sent a scan of a letter Tim Mara (grandson) sent him in 1984 - I think it's clear he signed Tim very differently from his grandfather.

    image
  • raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭
    For anyone looking to get autographs authenticated and encapsulated for a cheap price - check out my bulk submission and sign up if interested. You can have your autos done for $11 a piece. Veronica mentioned this may be the last opportunity that we can do the $10/$250 declared value pricing, so I'm planning on doing the rest of my HOF PC. But it's an extremely good price to get your autos slabbed. If you have any questions, please let me know. I'm trying to make this submission huge to hopefully convince them to let us do the $10 price again in the future....the more the merrier and you can do as many or few autos as you'd like.

    Blue Flip Bulk Submission
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
  • raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭
    Jeffrey has the rest of my cuts collection done. Now all the ugly single cuts I have will look great in my PC forever. Thanks Jeffrey!!!

    Earle Greasy Neale:
    image

    image

    Steve Owen:
    image

    image


    Jim Finks:
    image

    image

    Turk Edwards:
    image

    image


    Sid Luckman:
    image

    image

    Len Ford:
    image

    image



    “Tuffy” Leemans:

    image
    image


    Bert Bell:

    image


    George Trafton

    image
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Derrick, they look awesome! Jeffery does fantastic work.
  • Hi:

    Here is something which I hope you like: Josephine Morabito Fox, widow of the senior co-founder of the San Francisco 49ers and one of the first women to hold majority ownership of a professional sports franchise.

    image

    This is the last Josephine Morabito sold at American Memorabilia!!!!

    image

    Interesting autograph, she will not enter the HOF but still a great part of 49ers history!!!
  • PuppeluvPuppeluv Posts: 115
    What an odd combination of signatures . Perhaps Mrs. Morabito was representing Joe the Jet's induction and greasy & Mel signed as well?
    Unique and very cool !
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Hey Puppy you are exactly correct Josephine was Joe's presenter.
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    We lost another great one today in Deacon Jones.....he was not only one of the best that ever played the game but he was one of the nicest. As one of the fortunate ones who lives by the HOF Deacon made it a point to come back every year for the induction ceremonies. He was always telling jokes and making the fans laugh, he will be sorely missed especially this year the 50th anniversary of the HOF. Deacon rest in peace...


  • << <i>We lost another great one today in Deacon Jones.....he was not only one of the best that ever played the game but he was one of the nicest. As one of the fortunate ones who lives by the HOF Deacon made it a point to come back every year for the induction ceremonies. He was always telling jokes and making the fans laugh, he will be sorely missed especially this year the 50th anniversary of the HOF. Deacon rest in peace... >>



    I 2nd Dave's thoughts about the passing of David "Deacon" Jones. I really don't "chase" after autographs HOF weekend the way I used to back in the ' 80's and ' 90's. I got Deacon quite a few times though " Back in the day ". A couple of times, I asked him to sign Deacon " Secretary of Defense" Jones. Both times, he looked at me, and said " Do you really expect me to write all that out " Then he would sign Deacon Jones HOF 80. I really wanted one of those. Oh Well....

    Rest in Peace, Secretary of Defense Jones.
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
  • PuppeluvPuppeluv Posts: 115
    Speaking of Deacon...always one of my favorites....Last year Jennifer Allen had a special on " The Fearsome Foursome" for NFL Networks " A Football Life" series where she interviewed Rosie & Deacon and I thought then that Deac was looking a little frail. I saw that he wasn't part of the Halls announced attendees list as well which suprised me . 50th Anniversary and all. After Nitschke passed Deac sort of took over as unofficial head of the table status during the inductees only dinner. Rocke you may know... has anyone stepped into that area of personal responsibility ? Just kind of curious . I always admired that fact about those men, that they reminded a room of the greatest players to ever play that they were all there for a reason that wasn't entirely because of the individual. Admirable.
    This 'Niner fan wore his Blue & White #75 jersey today.
    Respect,yo.
  • mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭
    Does anyone here collect the 1948 Bowman autographed set? I picked up a Paul Sarringhaus not too long ago, had it slabbed and authenticated, so PM if you're interested.

    Thanks,
    Matt
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
  • mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭
    Picked this guy up today! Pete Stinchcomb was a two-time All-American at Ohio State in 1919-1920, teaming up with Chic Harley in 1919.

    image
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
  • Matt,

    VERY nice pick-up. Congratulations.

    Rockeimage
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
  • mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭


    << <i>Matt,

    VERY nice pick-up. Congratulations.

    Rockeimage >>



    Thanks Rocke! First one I've come across for sale image
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
  • mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭
    Oh by the way, I was watching reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond a couple weeks ago with my wife.... It was the episode (Season 2, Episode 7) where Debra catches Raymond hanging out watching sports and eating pizza at the office late night when he said he had to work late. To prove he wants to be at home, Raymond says he will work from home so they setup an office down in his basement. To my surprise, above his right shoulder, Ray put up an iconic 8x10 of Pete Stinchcomb on his wall (wish I had the screen grab), but this is the photo I am talking about and I bet a few of you remember seeing this photo before:

    image
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
  • GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    lol I remember a during the a game against my rivals Westminster Senior year of high school I came out looking like that, nothing quite like being plastered in mud after giving the game all you had, but with that smile it looks like he actually won his game unlike we did xP love it!
    Nathan Wagner
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Very nice grab indeed! Always nice to see some rare old time autographs pop up.

    As for me, I have made it up to 264. I picked up a Cortez Kennedy finally. (Will be watching for Panini to release their HOF autographs if they ever do.) I was also able to nab this piece on ebay. I had noticed one just like it pop up on clean sweep and made the initial bid of $200 but was outbid. Well, a day or two before I was outbid, the seller of this check lowered their's from 275 to 250 with free shipping, so it was cheaper to nab this one. Plus, there was no mark overtop of the autograph. I liked the other because it was to the Jets, but the autograph is the important part. It is not authenticated, but I know there is a half off sale right now, though might and wait to see if they have their $10 sale anytime soon. Figure I could slip this in on that deal if they are still doing them. Anyhow, here is my new Al Davis check:

    image
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Here's a couple of my latest pickups.

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    image
  • revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    Those are really nice - here are two I picked up that are in the 1955 Topps AA set and in College Football Hall of Fame

    image

    image
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Does anyone have an autograph by Lew Hinchman? He was an All American at Ohio State in the early 30's. I have the chance to buy a cut, but I have no idea what his signature looks like or the value, nor do I know if PSA has any examplers to authenticate it. Please PM me with the info.
  • mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭


    << <i>Does anyone have an autograph by Lew Hinchman? He was an All American at Ohio State in the early 30's. I have the chance to buy a cut, but I have no idea what his signature looks like or the value, nor do I know if PSA has any examplers to authenticate it. Please PM me with the info. >>



    Here's the Lew Hinchman I have in my personal collection, hope it helps!

    image

    Thanks,
    Matt
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
  • JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Bump----too quiet around here....
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Far too quiet. I keep checking my e-mail to see if anyone has posted anything, but nada. Money has been a little tighter, so haven't been able to pick up anything, but do have a lead on one or two things.

    Meanwhile, I have picked up these two autographs. They aren't PSA/DNA, but cards.

    First, I had a psa/dna of him, but a 7 auto. Would still love to get a full cut signature that is perfect, but I like this one a lot as well:

    image

    And this I just thought was a nice piece. He's not NFL HOF, but is in the College FB HOF. I know he only passed recently, so I'm sure there are plenty of autos of him in existence, but still nice to have it in a card:

    image
  • tnsprotnspro Posts: 786 ✭✭✭
    Since it is quiet around here, I thought I would provide some reading to everyone about the pro-football players that have died during war time. Each year, around Memorial Day, we get various sports web sites that list the pro-football players that were killed in action (KIA). Each and every one has been, well lets just say, incomplete. Years ago, I noticed that they mentioned a few players that should not have been listed. Gus Sonnenberg, Frank Maher and Bob Mackert are just a few of the players that were listed as "war deaths" that shouldn't be and most football historians are now beginning to realize that these players did not die "in war" or because of a war. There are sources that still have them on it however. The Pro-Football HOF, which should know better, is one such place. Do a google search and you will find others.

    I have put together what should be the definitive list of NFL/AFL Pro-Football War deaths. In total, there were 37 players and 1 coach that died in combat or died while on active duty, training to go to war. Here is the list -

    Pro-Football War Casualties


    By the way, this would be an awesome autograph project to try and put together.

    Jim


    Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
  • cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Very nicely done Jim.
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    eBay seller Probstein123 had a big GLA auction end yesterday, he won a lot of 191 signed on the Legendary auction back in May for $4780. The lot was covered by a JSA Auction Letter and also included the Sid Luckman card. There were some great buys last night if you could get in on any of them. The problem was they all ended at the same time. He made a killing. The Sid Luckman card was also authenticated by PSA with a sticker, the winning bid was $3050. That is only the second JSA or PSA authenticated Luckman GLA card that I have ever seen.
  • wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭


    << <i>eBay seller Probstein123 had a big GLA auction end yesterday, he won a lot of 191 signed on the Legendary auction back in May for $4780. The lot was covered by a JSA Auction Letter and also included the Sid Luckman card. There were some great buys last night if you could get in on any of them. The problem was they all ended at the same time. He made a killing. The Sid Luckman card was also authenticated by PSA with a sticker, the winning bid was $3050. That is only the second JSA or PSA authenticated Luckman GLA card that I have ever seen. >>



    I was watching a few of them, actually. I thought about picking up the Wilson and the Schramm, but forgot about them and they ended up selling, sadly.
  • CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    I picked up the Weinmeister....I was watching the Luckman which is what I wanted it was stuck on $450 for the longest time and then the next price went to $1500 I was definitely only watching then.
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