I would lap up that Steve Owen signed page (and I think it's just the page, or maybe I'm reading the description wrong) but it looks a little different from some of the examples I have - especially the O in Owen - they don't seem to start with a severe upstroke from under the letter - they start at the top like this example from a Phillips yearbook which has an O for Owen and an O for Oklahoma
And this example from 1959 - closer to the publication date of My Kind of Football
A shameless plug for my e-bay auctions ending on Sunday. I have Millner & Stydahar 3x5s for auction along with many PSA Red Flips signed FB & BB HOFers, thanks, Tim Auction link
Hi Guys, I can't thank you enough for all your help liquidating our collection. Most of the cuts and paper are gone. I now have approx. 200 mini helmets to move. I'd love to do it in one shot and I'd be willing to drive to do it. Anyone interested please e-mail me at zaxdad1209@yahoo.com. We have all the living with the exception of the last few classes. Also several deceased. I don't have any idea what kind of price to put on it, we can work that out once I know someone is interested. He also has a collection of every Super Bowl mvp on 16x20's. He has all except Holmes,Rodgers and Brees. Multi mvp winners are signed on one photo. A few of them are framed. Also would like to sell them in one lot. Thanks for listening and Thanks again for helping out. Zack has a huge chunk of his tuition paid already.
Well guys...I haven't heard back from the book restorer...not sure if he's not checking his e-mails...or if he just can't do it and doesn't want to tell me the sad news. I mean I still love the purchase of the Steve Owen, but would still love to hear from some restorer either way. So if anyone knows another book restorer or can give me any ideas, let me know.
Paul Tronson of Period Fine Bindings: periodfinebindings@googlemail.com Eclipse Paper Conservation: trace@eclipsepaper.com Frank Mowery: restorepaper@yahoo.com
At the very least they should be able to tell you if it can be done.
Another resource for all of us may be the Midwest Art Conservation Center. My sister works for the North Dakota Historical Society as a collections manager at the state run museum and this is who they use to preserve and restore historical artifacts.
The fact is the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting system has left many deserving players out of the Hall. Alex Karras was a dominate defensive tackle for 12 seasons, All Pro 4 times and a member of the all-decade team of the 60`s. To point to his one year suspension for gambling, as a reason, is a joke. The Senior Committee needs to rectify a wrong, albeit 40 + years delayed. Do not hold our collective breaths!
Big thanks to Matt for finding this autograph for me and working out a deal. While it wasn't cheap, I think this item is a real treasure. It is Chic Harley's 1915-16 OSU Athletic Association student ticket book, signed by him on the reverse. Chic was on the freshman team that year. Just think...this item was in Chic's back pocket for all the sporting events that year. I remember when this item sold on ebay several years ago. I missed out then, but like most pieces in the hobby they usually show up again somewhere else. Here is a scan of the signature and book.
<< <i>The fact is the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting system has left many deserving players out of the Hall. Alex Karras was a dominate defensive tackle for 12 seasons, All Pro 4 times and a member of the all-decade team of the 60`s. To point to his one year suspension for gambling, as a reason, is a joke. The Senior Committee needs to rectify a wrong, albeit 40 + years delayed. Do not hold our collective breaths!
Craig >>
As you point out, he made the HOF's all decade team of the 60's and still isn't in. Can you think of any other all decade members not in the HOF? Dick Stanfel?
<< <i>Big thanks to Matt for finding this autograph for me and working out a deal. While it wasn't cheap, I think this item is a real treasure. It is Chic Harley's 1915-16 OSU Athletic Association student ticket book, signed by him on the reverse. Chic was on the freshman team that year. Just think...this item was in Chic's back pocket for all the sporting events that year. I remember when this item sold on ebay several years ago. I missed out then, but like most pieces in the hobby they usually show up again somewhere else. Here is a scan of the signature and book.
All the best
Mark >>
Not that it wasn't in good hands previously, but I'm glad it went to someone else that will really appreciate it. I always enjoy meeting new people that share the same passion and energy as me for autographs and sports history, and was able to do so here in helping you fill a hole in your collection. Congratulations, it's a beautiful piece!
Thanks, Matt
Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
The name Chic Harley was familiar but I didn't look up the specifics of his life until you posted the autograph - at what age did he go into the hospital and what is the date range of possible autographs?
Matt would probably know for certain (his avatar is a photo of Chic), but he was in a mental institution from his late twenties until he died in 1974 (age 79). There were times when he was highly functional and his family would bring him to OSU games. There are only 3 autographs of Chic that I know of in the hobby, this one being the earliest (1915). Chic was the first three-time all american for Ohio State and was an inaugural member of the College Football Hall of Fame. He had one-third ownership of the Decatur Staleys with George Halas and Dutch Sternaman in 1921, but Halas dissolved the deal due to Harley's mental disease. They claimed it was from syphilis - which it wasn't. Chic suffered from dementia praecox, later termed "schizophrenia".
Chic's life was a very fascinating, but tragic story. There is a great 2008 book called "Chic" written by Bob Hunter which chronicles his life.
<< <i>The fact is the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting system has left many deserving players out of the Hall. Alex Karras was a dominate defensive tackle for 12 seasons, All Pro 4 times and a member of the all-decade team of the 60`s. To point to his one year suspension for gambling, as a reason, is a joke. The Senior Committee needs to rectify a wrong, albeit 40 + years delayed. Do not hold our collective breaths!
Craig >>
As you point out, he made the HOF's all decade team of the 60's and still isn't in. Can you think of any other all decade members not in the HOF? Dick Stanfel? >>
yes dick is one of them
here are the packers.
60's Kramer Dowler Robinson (has a shot this year)
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Chic played for the Decatur Staleys and after the 1921 season, he was institutionalized and diagnosed with schizophrenia at the age of 25. Without a doubt, the man that helped Ohio State and Michigan develop the rivalry it became and still is today. Before Harley and Ohio State beat Michigan in 1919, U of M had won every meeting except two (a 0-0 tie and a 3-3 tie). Though Ohio State has seven Heisman trophies to its credit, arguably their best player of all-time (Chic Harley) was before the trophy was awarded annually.
Thanks, Matt
Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
Truly remarkable what shows up on this board and the historical knowledge of its members! This Harley piece is just.....Remarkable!! Congrats on your newest favorite Mark ! Also, there are several members of the All-Decade team not in the HOF. At least 8 from the 1930's. 10 from the 40's...granted some of these players played only a couple few years - like Byron "Whizzer" White and I think Gaynell Tinsley only played three seasons as did Hunk Anderson in the 20's. From the 1950's Stanfel , Dick Barwegan, and ( I think ) Mac Speedie are not in. And from the 60's in addition to the Packers players only 3: Gary Collins( Browns ),John David Crow (49ers) ,& Larry Morris ( Bears). To the point of Karras: I think that there always has to be a bad guy and - at least on the field - Karras was more than willing to play that role. It spills over to the gambling issue as well with Paul Hornung ( the other prominent figure indicted by Rozelle ) being the contrite Golden Boy on a team that was helping define the tough, All-American integrity of the NFL with Vince's Packers. It doesn't help Karras' cause either that he just had this rep as a dirty player, though I tend to believe no one on the field for ANY team was saintly all the time. Not in the 60's and not even in Green Bay. Everyone on this board has always enjoyed & Participated in the HOF debates and I think Karras deserevs in. I'm not sure if he would be in the first 10 overlooked players I would put there , but , yeah . And not to beat this poor dead horse, but - Jerry Kramer first off. I can see the residual reputation of Karras as a player, but what did Kramer do again? -besides be the paragon of Guard? Man! I got WAY off topic from this OUTSTANDING Chic Harley piece Congrats Mark! Matt: Welcome! Don't be shy about showing off !
Just for the record I gave the short shrift to a few guys: In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF. The 1960's team : Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and... Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K - and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration. Knew I should have looked this up to begin with
<< <i>Just for the record I gave the short shrift to a few guys: In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF. The 1960's team : Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and... Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K - and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration. Knew I should have looked this up to begin with >>
If Ray Guy can not get in the H.O.F., than Chandler and Bakken have zero chance. The fact that no punters are in the Hall is a joke and not a funny one. I did not see most of the 1950`s All Decade team. Ray Guy and Jerry Kramer should have been in decades ago. Let the Senior voters right the wrong. Karras is in my top 10. Craig
All I can say is I love this forum. I learn more and more each time about a lot of the players before my time. I really didn't get into football until about the early 90s or so, maybe a bit earlier, but really haven't started appreciating all the greats until just a few years ago really. I really had no clue about Chic even being an OSU fan. Just a great way to catch up on things.
And I have often wondered about why some players are overlooked, but figure a lot of you have more insight than I do. Guys like Kramer, Guy and Karras have been particular ones I was curious about. And have started looking at the all-decade teams, even picking up a Tri-Star Hunk Anderson...just incase.
On a sad note, I heard back from a book restoration company...and they gave a 5% chance at best at restoring the book. That the chemicals would likely remove the ink of the autograph as well, so looks like no go on restoring the Steve Owen, but even so, for $30 and being able to see it, it's a nice piece until I can find something better.
<< <i>Just for the record I gave the short shrift to a few guys: In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF. The 1960's team : Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and... Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K - and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration. Knew I should have looked this up to begin with >>
Outstanding job,Chris, none the less. I was fortunate to see Karras play, usually on Thanksgiving day when the Lions were the only game in town. No one could block Karras, or Roger Brown either.
Won? the Henry in the Heritage Live Auction Friday. I hope a member and I did not drive up the price? The nature of auctions, I guess! Happy Birthday Rocke!!
<< <i>Hello All, Well, first of all, I hope that you all have had a nice Easter Sunday with your families. 2nd, after feeding the tiny gerbil that spins the microscopic wheel that helps make my brain move, I have come up with my "TOP TWENTY AUTOGRAPH WANT LIST" as of today, with a couple of notations to go with a few of them. Here goes: 1) Hugh "Shorty" Ray 2) Charles Bidwill 3) Tim Mara 4) Joe Carr or " Joseph" Carr 5) Chic Harley - Greatest football player in history at The Ohio State University 6) Earl "Curly" Lambeau - I recently sold the one I had at a nice profit to a local collector 7) Don Miller - Notre Dame Four Horsemen 8) Jim Crowley- " " " " 9) Ernie Davis 10) Duke Slater 11) Al Blozis 12) LaVern Dilweg 13) Brian Piccolo 14) Don Fleming - All NFL safety 1962 for the Browns. Died June 4th,1963 at age 26. Died just weeks after Ernie Davis died. TRAGIC off season for the Browns that year. 15) Mac Speedie 16) Dick Barwegan 17) Bob Ferguson - The Ohio State running back legend. Runner-up to Ernie Davis for the Heisman. NEVER had a SINGLE carry for yardage loss in his CAREER !!! Died in 2004 18) Turk Edwards - Have to find a much nicer 3 x 5 card. The one autograph that MUST be upgraded. 19) Hunk Anderson 20) Alan Ameche I know a couple of these are on Ebay, ( Anderson, Ameche ) but, they are not on the medium, or quality that I want. If I can get 3 of them this year, I would be happy. Rocke >>
While looking for an old post that I needed to find to help out someone that had sent me a PM, I came across this post from April 2010. Looking at it, from only 19 months ago, have to admit that I am very happy that I can check off # 2, # 6 ( Have actually picked up TWO, have one paid for and am still paying on the 2nd ), # 14, # 15, # 18, # 19, and # 20. Why don't we all start working on our TOP 20 Lists, and Post them around the first of the New Year ?
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Awesome! I'm in ! I may make 12-20 super easy just so I can feel better about myself, though Actually I may make them all guys not in the HOF - and just list those other 11 seperately. Hmmm. I'm off to do my list. I think part of the reason I enjoy this hobby so much is that it entails list making - I function a little better that way.
Hey Rocke I have Alan Ameche on a 3x5 from the Dr. John Davis collection, i may be interested in selling it or working a trade if you would be interested.
Thanks Nathan, but # 20 Alan Ameche is one of my TOP 20 MOST WANTED that I have scratched off of my list during the last 19 months. I picked up a 3 X 5 card in a RRAUCTION a few months ago.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I have also just added an item to the B/S/T board. I have recently picked up a 1961 Team Signed, ALL White, Model F 1460 Wilson Football. The Ball has 34 BLUE BALLPOINT signatures, including the ULTRA-RARE Don Fleming. Also has Len Dawson, Bobby Mitchell, Jim Brown, and Mike McCormack. I will Email pictures to someone to post, if they don't mind, to someone that volunteers to post them for me :-) At great expense, I had already bought a signed 8 X 10 a number of months ago, from a Longtime Browns autograph collector. This Ball comes from a nephew of a 1961 Browns Player. $1,250.00 Or Best Offer. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Rocke and I am looking forward to meet you next year if my trip alouds it!!!! It is always a pleasure Rocke!!!!
So I need some help from you at the forum since I am in the last 9 + 1 autographs missing, so if any of you have any of the following you are willing to sell, please let me know we can make a deal as long as it is a fair price, LOL!!!!!
So here is my list:
Carr Ray Charles Bidwill Tim Mara Chamberlin McNally Herber Kiesling Pete Henry
And do not laugh: John Madden
So if you have any of them you are willing to sell send me an email to fernandezsouz@hotmail.com and we can try to make a deal. I would like to get Madden along with another name to use the same shipping, LOL!!!!!
Just wanted to let everyone know, Ceasr IS Legitamate and will buy the autographs he needs. He bought that NFL stationary item from Rod a while ago that had the multiple owners on it, including Dan Reeves, George Preston Marshall, George Halas, and of course, Tony Morabito !!! He has since bought several more items from Rod, including Steve Owen and quite a few others. He may live in Mexico, BUT, Cesar DEFINITELY LOVES the NFL and the NFL Hall of Fame.
Don't kno if anyone here has an extra that is on his list, but if you do, I hope that a deal can be worked out that is satisfactory for both parties. I have also talked to Cesar on the phone a couple of times. I look forward to meeting him inperson, hopefully this coming summer.
By the way Cesar, don't forget to send me a friend request on FaceBook !!!LOL
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I thought you might enjoy this very quick story. A few of you who have known me for a few years know that I sold the rarest autograph in the 1997 Upper Deck Legends autograph set a few years back....the only certified factory stamped Russ Francis autograph. It was tough to let it go, but I needed the funds at the time.
Well, flash ahead to last week and I received an e-mail for Dave & Adams Card World specials. I have not bought a box of cards in years, but they had the 2011 UD College Football legends boxes for $52 each so I purchased two. The cards are designed almost identical to the 1997 UD Legends set and have HOFers as well as rookies from 2011...all in college jerseys. Tonight I received the boxes and it appears that I pulled the rarest autograph in the set as several are short-printed:
I looked it up on E-bay and could only find one completed listing for the same card:
Ken- congrats on a nice pickup ! I remember buying a pack of Basketball cards 15-16 years ago and pulling THE inserrt card of that Upper Deck set ( nothing autographed ). I turned around and traded it right away to the shop owner for a Unitas signed SI statue and some '51 Bowman cards. But nothing as good as THAT! Couldn't happen to a better guy! Speking of nice pick ups.... UK Redkins has a Lewellyn signed team card currently on his site as well as a Keisling. Opinions? Mark? Rev?
<< <i>Ken- congrats on a nice pickup ! I remember buying a pack of Basketball cards 15-16 years ago and pulling THE inserrt card of that Upper Deck set ( nothing autographed ). I turned around and traded it right away to the shop owner for a Unitas signed SI statue and some '51 Bowman cards. But nothing as good as THAT! Couldn't happen to a better guy! Speking of nice pick ups.... UK Redkins has a Lewellyn signed team card currently on his site as well as a Keisling. Opinions? Mark? Rev? >>
You can make a case for the Kiesling. The only thing that looks not quite right to me is the "G" and the end of Kiesling. The Lewellen is tough to make out.
We must not have had a UKRedskins thread since Puppeluv joined last March. I would say based on my experiences that he is a knowledgeable collector and obviously has a website to make money. That would leave me to believe that he knows a real Walt Kiesling autograph is certainly worth $2K+ easy. If he sent it to PSA/DNA and had it authenticated (even at say $100 cost), he would make substantially more money. That leads me to be suspicious. That said, I have not seen enough Kieslings to be sure and don't have an exemplar handy.
By the way, I just surfed his site and my Avast virus software detected a virus and malicious URL. Could be a misidentification, but just an FYI.
Ken - I've been a member of this board for years. .. I did have to change my user info from maxthepupp because of some ridiculous thing: I forgot my password, or had to re-register because I forgot my password, something... Sadly I am not sure I even know it now ! And the topic of UK is an old and contentious one on this board to be sure ! Actually, I'm not sure contentious is the right word. Everybody here is pretty aware of the history and rep of UK and generally in agreement that if something is too good to be true, it usually is. I absolutely agree that he knows whats what in regards to older footballers and how to exploit them- Especially to collectors who may have to learn this themselves...how some pretty tough cards are always available and new to his inventory all the time. Not that they don't exist... I have toughies in my collection, you do , we all have some . I don't know that we have them ALL, though. Mark, maybe. Or Rev....Rocke ~ ( big smiley face here! ) All that being said, I can't say for any certainty they are phony baloney. I mean I'm sure they are fake but I'm trying to be a little diplomatic. As much as I would really like Lewellyn in my collection ( and Keez ! I still need Keez..) I wouldn't recommend adding them from UK . OR from the other ebay aliases that are used by UK ! THAT is a real issue to be aware of . Actually, it's kind of amazing that this has been a topic for years and years and still goes on ... like the Raiders ineptitude. Sorry Dan.
Thanks Ken - I feel the same way. Heck, if I was half sure... On a plus note: Props and Thanks to TNSPRO ! J im helped me complete my 1958 New York Giants complete roster ! He helped me aqquire a Ed Hughes IC. A longtime Giant and Coach, Ed was the last player I needed - living or deceased - on the Giants from " The Greatest Game Ever Played" I have all the Baltimore Colts L / D except Jack Call and Dick Horn. Both of these guys only played a year or two and are actually alive and ( hopefully ) well, but I haven't had any success there. Once I do you will see the mother of all displays!
My take on ukredskins is this - how does a guy in Scotland get such rare autographs? I can't imagine he has any better connections that any of us when it comes to finding difficult signatures. Why would someone that has, say a Kiesling autograph, go to him anyway? There are plenty of dealers right her in the good ole' USA that would buy it in a second and for much more than his asking price. I am sure there are many many lurkers on our small part of the net here that have some rare items. If one of these collectors had a Keisling autograph to sell, I am sure one of us would be asked as we all have been at one time or another. I seriously doubt they would go to some guy in Scotland and sell it to him before anyone here or eBay or an auction or a dealer...
I wouldn't just stay away from his stuff, I would run.
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
<< <i>My take on ukredskins is this - how does a guy in Scotland get such rare autographs? I can't imagine he has any better connections that any of us when it comes to finding difficult signatures. Why would someone that has, say a Kiesling autograph, go to him anyway? There are plenty of dealers right her in the good ole' USA that would buy it in a second and for much more than his asking price. I am sure there are many many lurkers on our small part of the net here that have some rare items. If one of these collectors had a Keisling autograph to sell, I am sure one of us would be asked as we all have been at one time or another. I seriously doubt they would go to some guy in Scotland and sell it to him before anyone here or eBay or an auction or a dealer...
I wouldn't just stay away from his stuff, I would run.
Jim >>
Does the USA have an extradition treaty with Scotland? If not, he stays out of reach of forgery charges.
Comments
I would lap up that Steve Owen signed page (and I think it's just the page, or maybe I'm reading the description wrong) but it looks a little different from some of the examples I have - especially the O in Owen - they don't seem to start with a severe upstroke from under the letter - they start at the top like this example from a Phillips yearbook which has an O for Owen and an O for Oklahoma
And this example from 1959 - closer to the publication date of My Kind of Football
<< <i>Greg, did you buy this Len Ford card? Do you know of any potentially for sale? SEK >>
PM sent.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Paul Tronson of Period Fine Bindings: periodfinebindings@googlemail.com
Eclipse Paper Conservation: trace@eclipsepaper.com
Frank Mowery: restorepaper@yahoo.com
At the very least they should be able to tell you if it can be done.
Good Luck
Mark
http://www.preserveart.org/
Joel
Craig
All the best
Mark
<< <i>The fact is the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting system has left many deserving players out of the Hall. Alex Karras was a dominate defensive tackle for 12 seasons, All Pro 4 times and a member of the all-decade team of the 60`s. To point to his one year suspension for gambling, as a reason, is a joke. The Senior Committee needs to rectify a wrong, albeit 40 + years delayed. Do not hold our collective breaths!
Craig >>
As you point out, he made the HOF's all decade team of the 60's and still isn't in. Can you think of any other all decade members not in the HOF? Dick Stanfel?
<< <i>Big thanks to Matt for finding this autograph for me and working out a deal. While it wasn't cheap, I think this item is a real treasure. It is Chic Harley's 1915-16 OSU Athletic Association student ticket book, signed by him on the reverse. Chic was on the freshman team that year. Just think...this item was in Chic's back pocket for all the sporting events that year. I remember when this item sold on ebay several years ago. I missed out then, but like most pieces in the hobby they usually show up again somewhere else. Here is a scan of the signature and book.
All the best
Mark >>
Not that it wasn't in good hands previously, but I'm glad it went to someone else that will really appreciate it. I always enjoy meeting new people that share the same passion and energy as me for autographs and sports history, and was able to do so here in helping you fill a hole in your collection. Congratulations, it's a beautiful piece!
Thanks,
Matt
Matt would probably know for certain (his avatar is a photo of Chic), but he was in a mental institution from his late twenties until he died in 1974 (age 79). There were times when he was highly functional and his family would bring him to OSU games. There are only 3 autographs of Chic that I know of in the hobby, this one being the earliest (1915). Chic was the first three-time all american for Ohio State and was an inaugural member of the College Football Hall of Fame. He had one-third ownership of the Decatur Staleys with George Halas and Dutch Sternaman in 1921, but Halas dissolved the deal due to Harley's mental disease. They claimed it was from syphilis - which it wasn't. Chic suffered from dementia praecox, later termed "schizophrenia".
Chic's life was a very fascinating, but tragic story. There is a great 2008 book called "Chic" written by Bob Hunter which chronicles his life.
Mark
<< <i>
<< <i>The fact is the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting system has left many deserving players out of the Hall. Alex Karras was a dominate defensive tackle for 12 seasons, All Pro 4 times and a member of the all-decade team of the 60`s. To point to his one year suspension for gambling, as a reason, is a joke. The Senior Committee needs to rectify a wrong, albeit 40 + years delayed. Do not hold our collective breaths!
Craig >>
As you point out, he made the HOF's all decade team of the 60's and still isn't in. Can you think of any other all decade members not in the HOF? Dick Stanfel? >>
yes dick is one of them
here are the packers.
60's
Kramer
Dowler
Robinson (has a shot this year)
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Thanks,
Matt
Congrats on your newest favorite Mark !
Also, there are several members of the All-Decade team not in the HOF. At least 8 from the 1930's. 10 from the 40's...granted some of these players played only a couple few years - like Byron "Whizzer" White and I think Gaynell Tinsley only played three seasons as did Hunk Anderson in the 20's.
From the 1950's Stanfel , Dick Barwegan, and ( I think ) Mac Speedie are not in.
And from the 60's in addition to the Packers players only 3: Gary Collins( Browns ),John David Crow (49ers) ,& Larry Morris ( Bears).
To the point of Karras: I think that there always has to be a bad guy and - at least on the field - Karras was more than willing to play that role. It spills over to the gambling issue as well with Paul Hornung ( the other prominent figure indicted by Rozelle ) being the contrite Golden Boy on a team that was helping define the tough, All-American integrity of the NFL with Vince's Packers. It doesn't help Karras' cause either that he just had this rep as a dirty player, though I tend to believe no one on the field for ANY team was saintly all the time. Not in the 60's and not even in Green Bay.
Everyone on this board has always enjoyed & Participated in the HOF debates and I think Karras deserevs in. I'm not sure if he would be in the first 10 overlooked players I would put there , but , yeah . And not to beat this poor dead horse, but - Jerry Kramer first off.
I can see the residual reputation of Karras as a player, but what did Kramer do again? -besides be the paragon of Guard?
Man! I got WAY off topic from this OUTSTANDING Chic Harley piece
Congrats Mark!
Matt: Welcome! Don't be shy about showing off !
In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF.
The 1960's team :
Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and...
Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense
Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense
Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K -
and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration.
Knew I should have looked this up to begin with
<< <i>Just for the record I gave the short shrift to a few guys:
In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF.
The 1960's team :
Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and...
Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense
Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense
Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K -
and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration.
Knew I should have looked this up to begin with
If Ray Guy can not get in the H.O.F., than Chandler and Bakken have zero chance. The fact that no punters are in the Hall is a joke and not a funny one. I did not see most of the 1950`s All Decade team. Ray Guy and Jerry Kramer should have been in decades ago. Let the Senior voters right the wrong. Karras is in my top 10.
Craig
And I have often wondered about why some players are overlooked, but figure a lot of you have more insight than I do. Guys like Kramer, Guy and Karras have been particular ones I was curious about. And have started looking at the all-decade teams, even picking up a Tri-Star Hunk Anderson...just incase.
On a sad note, I heard back from a book restoration company...and they gave a 5% chance at best at restoring the book. That the chemicals would likely remove the ink of the autograph as well, so looks like no go on restoring the Steve Owen, but even so, for $30 and being able to see it, it's a nice piece until I can find something better.
<< <i>Just for the record I gave the short shrift to a few guys:
In addition to Stanfel & Barwegan Alan Ameche ( Colts )and Bobby Walston ( Eagles) were members of the 1950's All Decade team with Joe Fortunato of the Bears being the only defensive player not in the HOF.
The 1960's team :
Crow, Collins, Morris, Kramer, Dowler, Robinson, and...
Howard Mudd (49ers) Ralph Neely ( Cowboys ) and Del Shofner ( Rams )- Offense
Bobby Boyd ( Colts ) Eddie Meador ( Rams ),and.....how could I forget Tommy Nobis?- Defense
Don Chandler & Jimmy Bakken were the P/K -
and the AFL AD Team is pretty impressive too in regards of players who can merit some real consideration.
Knew I should have looked this up to begin with
Outstanding job,Chris, none the less. I was fortunate to see Karras play, usually on Thanksgiving day when the Lions were the only game in town. No one could block Karras, or Roger Brown either.
<< <i>Hello All,
Well, first of all, I hope that you all have had a nice Easter Sunday with your families.
2nd, after feeding the tiny gerbil that spins the microscopic wheel that helps make my brain move, I have come up with my "TOP TWENTY AUTOGRAPH WANT LIST" as of today, with a couple of notations to go with a few of them. Here goes:
1) Hugh "Shorty" Ray
2) Charles Bidwill
3) Tim Mara
4) Joe Carr or " Joseph" Carr
5) Chic Harley - Greatest football player in history at The Ohio State University
6) Earl "Curly" Lambeau - I recently sold the one I had at a nice profit to a local collector
7) Don Miller - Notre Dame Four Horsemen
8) Jim Crowley- " " " "
9) Ernie Davis
10) Duke Slater
11) Al Blozis
12) LaVern Dilweg
13) Brian Piccolo
14) Don Fleming - All NFL safety 1962 for the Browns. Died June 4th,1963 at age 26. Died just weeks after Ernie Davis died. TRAGIC off season for the Browns that year.
15) Mac Speedie
16) Dick Barwegan
17) Bob Ferguson - The Ohio State running back legend. Runner-up to Ernie Davis for the Heisman. NEVER had a SINGLE carry for yardage loss in his CAREER !!! Died in 2004
18) Turk Edwards - Have to find a much nicer 3 x 5 card. The one autograph that MUST be upgraded.
19) Hunk Anderson
20) Alan Ameche
I know a couple of these are on Ebay, ( Anderson, Ameche ) but, they are not on the medium, or quality that I want. If I can get 3 of them this year, I would be happy.
Rocke >>
While looking for an old post that I needed to find to help out someone that had sent me a PM, I came across this post from April 2010. Looking at it, from only 19 months ago, have to admit that I am very happy that I can check off # 2, # 6 ( Have actually picked up TWO, have one paid for and am still paying on the 2nd ), # 14, # 15, # 18, # 19, and # 20. Why don't we all start working on our TOP 20 Lists, and Post them around the first of the New Year ?
Actually I may make them all guys not in the HOF - and just list those other 11 seperately. Hmmm.
I'm off to do my list. I think part of the reason I enjoy this hobby so much is that it entails list making - I function a little better that way.
Rocke
Rocke
Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Rocke and I am looking forward to meet you next year if my trip alouds it!!!!
It is always a pleasure Rocke!!!!
So I need some help from you at the forum since I am in the last 9 + 1 autographs missing, so if any of you have any of the following you are willing to sell, please let me know we can make a deal as long as it is a fair price, LOL!!!!!
So here is my list:
Carr
Ray
Charles Bidwill
Tim Mara
Chamberlin
McNally
Herber
Kiesling
Pete Henry
And do not laugh: John Madden
So if you have any of them you are willing to sell send me an email to fernandezsouz@hotmail.com and we can try to make a deal.
I would like to get Madden along with another name to use the same shipping, LOL!!!!!
Thanks in advance
My best wishes!!!!!!
Just wanted to let everyone know, Ceasr IS Legitamate and will buy the autographs he needs. He bought that NFL stationary item from Rod a while ago that had the multiple owners on it, including Dan Reeves, George Preston Marshall, George Halas, and of course, Tony Morabito !!!
He has since bought several more items from Rod, including Steve Owen and quite a few others. He may live in Mexico, BUT, Cesar DEFINITELY LOVES the NFL and the NFL Hall of Fame.
Don't kno if anyone here has an extra that is on his list, but if you do, I hope that a deal can be worked out that is satisfactory for both parties. I have also talked to Cesar on the phone a couple of times. I look forward to meeting him inperson, hopefully this coming summer.
By the way Cesar, don't forget to send me a friend request on FaceBook !!!LOL
Rocke
Thanks,
Matt
I thought you might enjoy this very quick story
Well, flash ahead to last week and I received an e-mail for Dave & Adams Card World specials. I have not bought a box of cards in years, but they had the 2011 UD College Football legends boxes for $52 each so I purchased two. The cards are designed almost identical to the 1997 UD Legends set and have HOFers as well as rookies from 2011...all in college jerseys. Tonight I received the boxes and it appears that I pulled the rarest autograph in the set as several are short-printed:
I looked it up on E-bay and could only find one completed listing for the same card:
2011 UD Legends Dan Marino Auto
I guess it was a good time to break back into opening a few boxes. Pulled Steve Owens and Anthony Carter autographs in the same box, also.
Ken
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Couldn't happen to a better guy!
Speking of nice pick ups.... UK Redkins has a Lewellyn signed team card currently on his site as well as a Keisling. Opinions?
Mark? Rev?
<< <i>Ken- congrats on a nice pickup ! I remember buying a pack of Basketball cards 15-16 years ago and pulling THE inserrt card of that Upper Deck set ( nothing autographed ). I turned around and traded it right away to the shop owner for a Unitas signed SI statue and some '51 Bowman cards. But nothing as good as THAT!
Couldn't happen to a better guy!
Speking of nice pick ups.... UK Redkins has a Lewellyn signed team card currently on his site as well as a Keisling. Opinions?
Mark? Rev? >>
You can make a case for the Kiesling. The only thing that looks not quite right to me is the "G" and the end of Kiesling. The Lewellen is tough to make out.
Ed
By the way, I just surfed his site and my Avast virus software detected a virus and malicious URL. Could be a misidentification, but just an FYI.
Ken
I did have to change my user info from maxthepupp because of some ridiculous thing: I forgot my password, or had to re-register because I forgot my password, something...
Sadly I am not sure I even know it now !
And the topic of UK is an old and contentious one on this board to be sure !
Actually, I'm not sure contentious is the right word. Everybody here is pretty aware of the history and rep of UK and generally in agreement that if something is too good to be true, it usually is.
I absolutely agree that he knows whats what in regards to older footballers and how to exploit them- Especially to collectors who may have to learn this themselves...how some pretty tough cards are always available and new to his inventory all the time. Not that they don't exist... I have toughies in my collection, you do , we all have some . I don't know that we have them ALL, though.
Mark, maybe. Or Rev....Rocke ~ ( big smiley face here! )
All that being said, I can't say for any certainty they are phony baloney. I mean I'm sure they are fake but I'm trying to be a little diplomatic.
As much as I would really like Lewellyn in my collection ( and Keez ! I still need Keez..) I wouldn't recommend adding them from UK .
OR from the other ebay aliases that are used by UK ! THAT is a real issue to be aware of .
Actually, it's kind of amazing that this has been a topic for years and years and still goes on ... like the Raiders ineptitude. Sorry Dan.
Ken
On a plus note:
Props and Thanks to TNSPRO ! J
im helped me complete my 1958 New York Giants complete roster ! He helped me aqquire a Ed Hughes IC.
A longtime Giant and Coach, Ed was the last player I needed - living or deceased - on the Giants from " The Greatest Game Ever Played"
I have all the Baltimore Colts L / D except Jack Call and Dick Horn. Both of these guys only played a year or two and are actually alive and ( hopefully ) well, but I haven't had any success there. Once I do you will see the mother of all displays!
I agree with Ken...I don't like the Kiesling either. The Lewellen is too difficult to read.
Mark
I wouldn't just stay away from his stuff, I would run.
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
<< <i>My take on ukredskins is this - how does a guy in Scotland get such rare autographs? I can't imagine he has any better connections that any of us when it comes to finding difficult signatures. Why would someone that has, say a Kiesling autograph, go to him anyway? There are plenty of dealers right her in the good ole' USA that would buy it in a second and for much more than his asking price. I am sure there are many many lurkers on our small part of the net here that have some rare items. If one of these collectors had a Keisling autograph to sell, I am sure one of us would be asked as we all have been at one time or another. I seriously doubt they would go to some guy in Scotland and sell it to him before anyone here or eBay or an auction or a dealer...
I wouldn't just stay away from his stuff, I would run.
Jim >>
Does the USA have an extradition treaty with Scotland? If not, he stays out of reach of forgery charges.