Good to know! But if someone outbids you they may not know better. It needs to be removed and relisted. Honestly it doesn't even look like the coach's sig. It looks bad all around.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Do you guys think it would be reasonable to consider induction of several early founding fathers of american football into the Pro Football HOF? I'm shocked that Walter Camp, Amos Stagg and Glen Warner's names have never come up for induction. True, they coached college football...however pre-1920 that was the only regular paying position in the sport. So, some (including me) would argue that they were professionals. These guys (among others) took the game of rugby and created the sport of american football. Their impact and contributions to the professional game are undeniable. Heck most pro-players start off playing football in a "Pop Warner" league.
Just seems unfair we would induct a NFL film producer as a "contributor" before the creater of american football (Walter Camp).
One problem with electing some of those men to the pro football HOF is that they were dead set against pro football and did everything they could to keep it from gaining traction - Rockne might be a better choice since he actually played pro ball and wasn't among those who bad mouthed the pro game.
True, some of these early coaches were against the professional game. But does that diminish their impact on the sport? They were afraid young kids would be attracted to the money and glamour of the professional game and bypass a proper education. Hard to completely argue against their motives. Plus...Walter Camp died in 1925 - pro football was only in it's infancy.
Good deal. I thought he would. When I got a hold of him, he acted perplexed why I was the only one to bring it up. I knew he was a seller with morals so if a few of us asked I knew he'd pull it.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
True, some of these early coaches were against the professional game. But does that diminish their impact on the sport? They were afraid young kids would be attracted to the money and glamour of the professional game and bypass a proper education. Hard to argue completely against their motives. Plus...Walter Camp died in 1925 - pro football was only in it's infancy. >>
Money and glamour? Bypass a proper education? In the 20's and earlier even the college kids were dismissive of proffessional football. I'm guessing in part because it was something unknown of at the time - with no Pro leagues lasting or making any profound impression - and we all can't be visionaries with the means to back it up. Even if some of those kids wanted to continue playing_ because they loved playing and it was ridiculous to think that they were coming into their athletic maturity and had to stop _most did not. Because the majority rule among the Universities and Coaches-who enacted profound influence on these young men- was that this was no course for a man to pursue. College was to educate its students towards a career - not a career as an athlete. Also if anyone stopped going to university to play pro ball its because they couldn't afford - or cut- it. I understand your point CF. You can't build on a foundation that isn't laid and that George Halas probably wouldn't be considered for the HC of USC. The pro game- using Halas as an example with Clark Shaughnessy- actively used the evolving college game. It's just that The Pro founders created their own league from their own will, making it up as they went against proven odds. As for Ed Sabol....well, it's kind of hard for me to argue against my own point. He (and John Facenda ) created mythology out of what you could see with your own two eyes. No small feat. I won't begrudge anyone elcted their bust in Canton, but I do think they are missing several people for sure. And if its the Pro Football HOF well........
You bring up some great points. But there were no pro founders (I assume you mean NFL). Remember the HOF is called the "professional" HOF, not the NFL HOF.
Let me make another point. I'm going to use a comparison to baseball. Alexander Cartwright is credited with being the father of baseball. He started the Knickerbocker Baseball Club in 1845, where the players paid a $2 initiation fee and $5 annual dues. That's right, the players paid to play. Yet Cartwright is in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Why? Because the baseball HOF embraces all individuals who contribute to the professional game today. Why should the football hall of fame be any different?
Now true, football has two hall of fames...college and pro. But the college game today has a much different meaning than it did 100 years ago. Some would argue (not me) that it is the minor leagues for the NFL. Certainly that wasn't the case back then. Plus, if you haven't noticed...the college hof can barely sustain itself.
CF - Yes, I was associating the Pro Football HOF with the NFL. There are many members who played Pro ball in different leagues as I'm sure you know. They did all seem to fold or be absorbed by the NFL at some point, though. Billy Shaw played his entire career in the under- represented -by-the-hof-AFL, but.....the Bills are still represented by the NFL. I would pose there are no alternatives for Professional Players to associate with to the extent that they would be considered a viable candidate for induction. The NFL is the standard bearer in this case. Canton represents that standard for Pro American Football. Canadian FB HOF is active, Football ( Soccer ) has it's own National HOF; Rugby is accounted for ...and South Bend reps the College game. Quite well judging by a quick glance at the members and opening their doors a dozen years before Canton. Baseball has Cooperstownand even the Negro Leagues museum can't or won't be absorbed into that . I would say though that College is a farm club to NFL glory & riches- as opposed to , you know, learning- but ONLY for the 16% of players who get a shot to play pro . For most players it's Saturday glory and Godspeed. Lets use Desmond Howard as an example: sure-fire CHOF but probably not on the pro level. Many such players like that, so why incorporate both institutions when one player could be superb on one level and just average at the pro level? And if you're mentioning Baseball that is it's own animal . Very tough club to get invited to. So if early football college players & coaches should qualify for Canton though they never were involved directly and dismissed it -and baseball welcomes all and any who contribute - are not A ,AA ,AAA Baseball clubbers theoretically eligible? Simply by their career in the minors which is a direct -and professional- avenue to the majors? How about College players? ( Really- I don't know if there is such a thing for baseball- I'm guessing it would be something specific to the school ? ) btw- I'm not really sure what you mean " The College HOF can barely sustain itself " I know it's supposed to move in a year or so... Maybe the Basketball HOF has it right: If you hold that ball on any level, in the world, you are eligible.
I think you are missing my point. I'm not talking about players. I'm specifically talking about certain select college coaches, prior to the establishment of regular professional leagues, who directly developed the game of football. I feel their contributions go beyond the college/professional ranks and are felt throughout all areas of american football. Plus they held the ONLY professional football positions available during their day....coaching. Remember, it's the pro HOF, not the NFL HOF.
Walter Camp took the game of rugby and created the line of scrimmage, snap-back from center, the system of downs, and the points system, as well as the introduction of the now-standard offensive arrangement of players (a seven-man offensive line and a four-man backfield consisting of a quarterback, two halfbacks, and a fullback). Camp was also responsible for introducing the "safety", the awarding of two points to the defensive side for tackling a ball carrier in his own end zone followed by a free kick by the offense from its own 20-yard line. (thanks wiki)
If we are going to induct film producers and staticians than I think Walter Camp deserves consideration as a "contributor" too.
And yea, the College Football Hall of Fame is having a rough going. They couldn't meet projections (visitors and sales)in South Bend so they are moving to Atlanta. South Bend owns the building which housed the Hall and they felt it was a financial drain. As of Dec 2010 they were still $20 million short of the required $50 million to move to Atlanta. Don't know the latest numbers.
Don't know if anyone has looked at the current Huggins & Scott auction or not, but my friend Rod has quite a few of the lots in the auction, and it is all some VERY nice stuff. These lots are all duplicates of his sizeable collection. His Lot #'s are 332, 333, 338, 344, 345, 349, 350, 351, 352, and 471. The auction ends Wed. night. Right now I think that Lot #'s 349 and 351 are VERY underpriced. There is a Bill Hewitt payroll check that is far below for what they have been selling at. Very nice stuff indeed.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Hey Dave, nice item. I told you, I knew you would get it for that price. Congrats on a nice pick-up.
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!! Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Sorry for not saying so before, but I really enjoyed reading your post about YA Tittle. The man is a legend of his time and one of the few greats left from his era. You are VERY lucky to have shared a beer (or two) with him - and I loved how he was drinking out of a YA Tittle mug...lol. Thank you so much for posting the pictures.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Thanks Greg, was DEFINITELY a BLAST spending time with YA and his Grandson Mike. They both really enjoyed my rec-room. What a thrill for me!!! Found a Hall of Fame gift shop catalog from 20 years ago. They made 4,950 steins each, of four different quarterbacks. I have a Otto Graham and a Y.A. Tittle. They also made Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr. They sold for 60.00 EACH !!!! I have paid less than that for both steins COMBINED. I am still looking for the Starr and Unitas to complete my collection. On the Ebay front, have received two offers through Ebay for the Bill Walsh PROOF card , and a couple of offers by Email for the Steve Owen book. Just talked to a local collector Thursday, and he said he would give me 500.00 for the Hickerson GLA HoF weekend if I still had it then, so hope he sticks to his word !!!! Will be picking up Minnesota Vikings Hall of Famer Randall McDaniel Saturday evening up in Cleveland. During the hour drive back to Canton, he will, of course, be subjected to hearing about my rec-room/autograph collection. Hopefully, he becomes the EIGHTH Hall of Famer I get to sign my wall. Look forward to spending some time with him. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Hey Dave, nice item. I told you, I knew you would get it for that price. Congrats on a nice pick-up.
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!! Rocke >>
Hey Rocke! I always done well in NJ regardless of the promoter but did show was a BUST. It was poorly promoted. It was the 4th CSA show in a row that was a bust. I'm taking a break so I will be skipping Chantilly and instead going on vacation in the Pacific NW. Thankfully I did great in Huggins and Scott. I saw Tittle at CSA with his son. I dropped your name and it took a minute to jog his memory. I filed for my HOF media credentials so I'll see you in Canton. BTW I'd like to move my insigned GLA series 1-6---do you know what it might retail for?
<< <i>Hey Dave, nice item. I told you, I knew you would get it for that price. Congrats on a nice pick-up.
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!! Rocke >>
Hey Rocke! I always done well in NJ regardless of the promoter but did show was a BUST. It was poorly promoted. It was the 4th CSA show in a row that was a bust. I'm taking a break so I will be skipping Chantilly and instead going on vacation in the Pacific NW. Thankfully I did great in Huggins and Scott. I saw Tittle at CSA with his son. I dropped your name and it took a minute to jog his memory. I filed for my HOF media credentials so I'll see you in Canton. BTW I'd like to move my insigned GLA series 1-6---do you know what it might retail for?
<< <i>Don't know if anyone has looked at the current Huggins & Scott auction or not, but my friend Rod has quite a few of the lots in the auction, and it is all some VERY nice stuff. These lots are all duplicates of his sizeable collection. His Lot #'s are 332, 333, 338, 344, 345, 349, 350, 351, 352, and 471. The auction ends Wed. night. Right now I think that Lot #'s 349 and 351 are VERY underpriced. There is a Bill Hewitt payroll check that is far below for what they have been selling at. Very nice stuff indeed. >>
Thanks for that post - I did pick up lot 349 (20) football HOF signed letters with Mara and Unitis - I'm just back from a vacation and the package was waiting for me - can't wait to read the letters. Mike
Does anyone know an approximate value for a signed Jack Mara 1961 Topps Giants team card? I bought a huge lot of signed 1961 Topps cards (including a signed Henry Jordan rc!!!) and included was the Jack Mara card. I read that he died in the mid/late 60's but I wasn't sure whether his autographs are valuable. I also bought cards signed by Red Hickey and Allie Sherman...once again, I'm not sure of the value but I didn't pay much for either one.
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Does anyone know an approximate value for a signed Jack Mara 1961 Topps Giants team card? I bought a huge lot of signed 1961 Topps cards (including a signed Henry Jordan rc!!!) and included was the Jack Mara card. I read that he died in the mid/late 60's but I wasn't sure whether his autographs are valuable. I also bought cards signed by Red Hickey and Allie Sherman...once again, I'm not sure of the value but I didn't pay much for either one.
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Ah, so it was you Greg who got that 61T Allie Sherman card ! Good for you...wasn't it like 8 bucks? And that Jack Mara Card- though beat up pretty good if it's the same one - was worth what you paid. If I'm talking about the same ebay auction all those cards went off at exactly the same time - difficult to focus on more than a couple. And if it is the same auction it was a consignment through Probstein123....any board feedback on this? ps- if this wasn't the same auction you got these from all I've said is total gibberish !
Well, so much for that. Got a couple of offers on ebay, and from direct emails, but didn't sell any of the three items I had on Ebay Will just put the Bill Walsh and Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art cards for sale on my table during Hall of Fame week at Belden Village Mall. A local collector has offered me $500.00 for it, but he said he wouldn't have the money till then, so I'll just wait on that one and sell it to him then. Now, about the Steve Owen book, which I also got a couple of Emails. I am going to be driving around 2009 Hall of Fame inductee Randall McDaniel this weekend. After I get back home from dropping him off at the airport ( probably around 9:00PM ) I am going to re-list the autographed Steve Owen book, My Kind of Football , on Ebay with a Buy it Now price of $899.00 + 10.00 Shipping/Insurance. As of right now, it is available to anyone on this thread for $840.00 and I will pay for Shipping/Insurance. In case you missed it, the Ebay # was 120738739055. Book itself is in Very good condition. Dustcover does have some paper loss. Every page in the book is virtually perfect. There ZERO tears to ANY page, in fact, there is not even a single folded page corner (dogear). Autograph is in blue ballpoint pen and is OUTSTANDING. Comes with a full LOA from Jim Spence. I do need payment sent ASAP if someone from this thread wants to buy this gem. If you look on Ebay on completed listings, you can see the pictures I had posted. I had been contacted by two different people from this thread a few weeks ago about buying this item, but could not come to an agreement with either of them on a price that was satisfactory to both of us. I have SUBSTANTIALLY lowered my asking price, but for personal reasons, I must sell something of value. When you see the condition of the book itself, and the autograph specifically, you will see for yourself why I am so upset about selling this, but as I said, Life dictates that I must let one of my "prizes" go. I really want it to go to someone on this thread. In fact, down the road, if the new owner wants to sell, VERY good chance that I would re-purchase for 100% of what they pay me for it. I can be Emailed at sweanes@live.com or contact me through this thread. THANKS VERY MUCH. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Does anyone know an approximate value for a signed Jack Mara 1961 Topps Giants team card? I bought a huge lot of signed 1961 Topps cards (including a signed Henry Jordan rc!!!) and included was the Jack Mara card. I read that he died in the mid/late 60's but I wasn't sure whether his autographs are valuable. I also bought cards signed by Red Hickey and Allie Sherman...once again, I'm not sure of the value but I didn't pay much for either one.
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Ah, so it was you Greg who got that 61T Allie Sherman card ! Good for you...wasn't it like 8 bucks? And that Jack Mara Card- though beat up pretty good if it's the same one - was worth what you paid. If I'm talking about the same ebay auction all those cards went off at exactly the same time - difficult to focus on more than a couple. And if it is the same auction it was a consignment through Probstein123....any board feedback on this? ps- if this wasn't the same auction you got these from all I've said is total gibberish ! >>
We're talking about the same cards. I bought over 60 cards from Probstein123 including the Henry Jordan rc and several other tough signatures (Bob Dee, Ross O'Hanley, ect...). It's too bad that such a wonderful set was broken, however I am thrilled to add those cards to my collection. Did you buy any cards from the auctions?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>We're talking about the same cards. I bought over 60 cards from Probstein123 including the Henry Jordan rc and several other tough signatures (Bob Dee, Ross O'Hanley, ect...). It's too bad that such a wonderful set was broken, however I am thrilled to add those cards to my collection. Did you buy any cards from the auctions?
<< <i>
Yes, I picked up the Gene Brito card and the Buzz Guy. Both of those were the ones I set out to get, so I'm happy. I did have your Allie Sherman as one I wanted and if I remember right there was a Joe Robb card as well that was also high on the list for me, been on the lookout for some time. And that J.C. Caroline. Funny thing. Like most members on this board I can tell you exactly what I DON'T have as far as these cards and players go. Maybe not everything I do have - but definitely what I don't. And I was sure I had Buzz Guy ! Man, I went through all my cards & binders, double checked my files and hard copy notes....what a doofus ! Sherman and Caroline are both guys I have been trying to pick up since forever - we all have those guys we just can't seem to track down ! There's a fun topic- who is your "white whale" ? That one guy on the want list you have missed out on, never seen, just can't add to your collection? And nobody can say Mara,Ray,Bidwell, etc. !
Picked up 2009 Hall of Famer Randall McDaniel tonight up in Cleveland. Spent just over an hour talking with him on the way to Canton. Great time with him. Very easy to talk to. He already had dinner plans for tonight with a friend that lives in Canton. I'm picking him up at 9:00 AM for breakfast. Don't have to have him at the show till 12:30, so I'm sure that there will be plenty of time to stop by the house so he can sign my wall and maybe an index card (or two)? Looking very forward to Sunday.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Had a GREAT time with Randall McDaniel this weekend. What a WONDERFUL person he is. Involved with a LOT of charities. Teaches developmentally challenged 2nd graders to read and write. Was able to get him over to the house for about 2 hours this morning, after I took him to breakfast, and before the autograph signing. To my facebook friends, I will have pictures up in a little bit. He is the EIGHTH Hall of Famer that I have had sign my rec-room wall. Still can't believe I get to do this. Also, found out next month, Jane's autograph guest will be Randy " Manster " White. Sounds like another GREAT time !!! Also, re-listed the Steve Owen, My Kind of Football autographed book. Ebay # 120742815688. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I did 3 separate submissions to PSA/DNA for the June special. Here is 5 out of my first submission. Hopefully my 2nd submission is here today and I can share that with you are well. The 3rd was just processed, so hopefully it'll be here in the next couple of weeks.
Sid Luckman Cut - Got it off ebay for $12!!!! Can't believe it wasn't secretarial!!
Ed Healey
Wayne Millner
Mike Michalske
Jimmy Conzelman - Signed James G
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Hey Bill, Did you send me a friend request on Facebook? Your Private Message thing is turned off on this site. Since there are no pictures of you on FB, wasn't sure if it's you or not. Let me know. Tell Zach I said hello. Are you coming over for HOF this year? Take care. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Nice group, raiderguy10 - and I agree about the Conzleman. >>
Thanks guys. I had fun showing them.
These were my other PSA/DNA submissions this year. These I consider my "rummage sale ebay finds" throughout the years. The first 6 were my 2nd submission. They were part of a $15 submittal for encapsulation and grading the autograph (I didn't know there was a $10 submission at this point)
Paul Brown - Got his 1974 autobiography and nameplate for $14 DLVD
Doak Walker - $5 DLVD
Art Rooney Thank You Note - $24 DLVD
Ernie Nevers Envelope - $32 DLVD
Bill George Index Cad - $17 DLVD
Jack Christiansen Card - $22 DLVD
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Hey Rocke, Yes that is me on Facebook. I know next to nothing but I figured Id give it a try. I will upload some photos soon. I told Zack you said hello. He is trying to talk me into CSA next week. I'm not sure what we'll do yet. He is thinking of selling his collection so I'm looking for suggestions. Do you think Huggins and Scott or maybe offer them up on this thread first? Let me know what you think. Thanks, Bill. See ya on Facebook.
Now this I have a problem with. Do you think whoever purchased this realizes that it isn't the elder Tim Mara considering he overpaid by about $700? The seller deliberately was hoping to find a buyer who didn't know what they were buying. I know this seller has a lot of hard to find HOF items, but no matter how desparate I am I will not be doing business with them.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
I have had good dealings with this seller, although I think some of his prices lately have been off the grid. I see he's selling a Bill Swiacki for $350, while I had mine valued at $20 (so I raised it to $100 in my spreadsheet) I don't have Tim Mara the grandson, and haven't seen it up for auction otherwise. I don't know how much more explicit the item description could have been. It says
"Timothy J. Mara, a grandson of the football Giants' founder and a former co-owner whose outspoken criticism of the Giants led to a long family feud. Mr. Mara's father, Jack, and an uncle, Wellington Mara, were named the co-owners of the Giants in 1930 by Timothy Mara, who had put together the team in 1925 for a $500 franchise fee. Over the next 40 years, the Mara family presided over a team that defined football in New York. From 1956 through 1963, the Giants played in six National Football League championship games, winning the title in 1956, and many of the players became the darlings of Madison Avenue. Tim Mara grew up on the Giants' sidelines, befriending many players. Frank Gifford referred to Mr. Mara as his closest friend when he was a rookie halfback in 1952. We offer a very rare signed 3x5 card. "
<< <i>I have had good dealings with this seller, although I think some of his prices lately have been off the grid. I see he's selling a Bill Swiacki for $350, while I had mine valued at $20 (so I raised it to $100 in my spreadsheet) I don't have Tim Mara the grandson, and haven't seen it up for auction otherwise. I don't know how much more explicit the item description could have been. It says
"Timothy J. Mara, a grandson of the football Giants' founder and a former co-owner whose outspoken criticism of the Giants led to a long family feud. Mr. Mara's father, Jack, and an uncle, Wellington Mara, were named the co-owners of the Giants in 1930 by Timothy Mara, who had put together the team in 1925 for a $500 franchise fee. Over the next 40 years, the Mara family presided over a team that defined football in New York. From 1956 through 1963, the Giants played in six National Football League championship games, winning the title in 1956, and many of the players became the darlings of Madison Avenue. Tim Mara grew up on the Giants' sidelines, befriending many players. Frank Gifford referred to Mr. Mara as his closest friend when he was a rookie halfback in 1952. We offer a very rare signed 3x5 card. " >>
There was a signed Giants letterhead he was on that sold for $26 a couple months ago on ebay. While the letterhead was addressed to an individual, I would still consider the letterhead more "collectible" than the index card.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
<< <i>There was a signed Giants letterhead he was on that sold for $26 a couple months ago on ebay. While the letterhead was addressed to an individual, I would still consider the letterhead more "collectible" than the index card. >>
Looking at Rich's recent feedback , I see that a poster to this thread made a recent very nice pick-up of a George Preston Marshall letter. Bill, Sue, Ben and I will be at Chantilly on Friday and Saturday only, and will have to leave on Sat. by 3:00 PM I will be taking a George Preston Marshall and the Steve Owen book. Hope to sell one or the other at the show. Hope to see you there. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Now this I have a problem with. Do you think whoever purchased this realizes that it isn't the elder Tim Mara considering he overpaid by about $700? The seller deliberately was hoping to find a buyer who didn't know what they were buying. I know this seller has a lot of hard to find HOF items, but no matter how desparate I am I will not be doing business with them. >>
I don't think this Mara item is listed falsely in any way. That being said I'm guessing the buyer believed they were purchasing the HOF'er Tim Mara. The dollar amount is very high for TJ Mara - as is the norm with this seller. Very high prices for, admittedly, some nicer items. This is an old discussion on this thread but in the case of Dealers spending hard and then holding collectors to the price that they set - standardizing the market value - then somebody spending the 750$ on TJ Mara probably isn't going to help anyone but Dealers. And , of course, the collector who purchased TJ Mara . Oh, and collectors who have stuff signed by TJ !!
I also have no problems with the listing. The price point alone suggests the HOF Tim. Anytime the price is asked $900 above market price, that's someone trying to scam an unknowing buyer. That's what I disagree with.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Sure. I would hope the buyer knew what he was buying, but...........maybe not. I would just submit that this seller is proportionately high priced on many .....MANY items and it doesn't seem like an out and out deception in that context. Go Raiders.
Just got back from a week in Myrtle Beach. Went to the airport tonight, and picked up Dallas Cowboy Hall of Famer Randy White. I asked him if he was hungry on the way to the hotel. He said he was, and asked if there was a Waffle House, or a Denny's around. I said both were close, so it was off to a late night meal at Waffle House. While there, I asked him if Coach Landry used to talk much about his playing days with the NewYork Giants. He said " Sh *t, I've already talked more with you since you picked me up at the airport than I talked to Landry in 14 years " WOW !!!!! This is GREAT !!!! Am picking him up in the AM. Feel 99.9 % sure that he will be Hall of Famer # 9 to sign my rec-room wall. Will post Facebook pictures Sunday PM. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Just put up 7 pictures of Cowboy Hall of Famer Randy White and me on Facebook. Had a GREAT time with him this weekend.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Comments
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Two more...Bobby Dodd and Bowden Wyatt.
Cheers!
Mark
Do you guys think it would be reasonable to consider induction of several early founding fathers of american football into the Pro Football HOF? I'm shocked that Walter Camp, Amos Stagg and Glen Warner's names have never come up for induction. True, they coached college football...however pre-1920 that was the only regular paying position in the sport. So, some (including me) would argue that they were professionals. These guys (among others) took the game of rugby and created the sport of american football. Their impact and contributions to the professional game are undeniable. Heck most pro-players start off playing football in a "Pop Warner" league.
Just seems unfair we would induct a NFL film producer as a "contributor" before the creater of american football (Walter Camp).
Anyone else feel strongly one way or the other?
Mark
True, some of these early coaches were against the professional game. But does that diminish their impact on the sport? They were afraid young kids would be attracted to the money and glamour of the professional game and bypass a proper education. Hard to completely argue against their motives. Plus...Walter Camp died in 1925 - pro football was only in it's infancy.
Dear ken_ams,
I closed it out until further review
Im waiting to hear from PSA
Thanks for bidding
Josh Evans
- lelands.com
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
<< <i>Rev,
True, some of these early coaches were against the professional game. But does that diminish their impact on the sport? They were afraid young kids would be attracted to the money and glamour of the professional game and bypass a proper education. Hard to argue completely against their motives. Plus...Walter Camp died in 1925 - pro football was only in it's infancy. >>
Money and glamour? Bypass a proper education?
In the 20's and earlier even the college kids were dismissive of proffessional football. I'm guessing in part because it was something unknown of at the time - with no Pro leagues lasting or making any profound impression - and we all can't be visionaries with the means to back it up. Even if some of those kids wanted to continue playing_ because they loved playing and it was ridiculous to think that they were coming into their athletic maturity and had to stop _most did not. Because the majority rule among the Universities and Coaches-who enacted profound influence on these young men- was that this was no course for a man to pursue. College was to educate its students towards a career - not a career as an athlete. Also if anyone stopped going to university to play pro ball its because they couldn't afford - or cut- it.
I understand your point CF. You can't build on a foundation that isn't laid and that George Halas probably wouldn't be considered for the HC of USC. The pro game- using Halas as an example with Clark Shaughnessy- actively used the evolving college game.
It's just that The Pro founders created their own league from their own will, making it up as they went against proven odds.
As for Ed Sabol....well, it's kind of hard for me to argue against my own point. He (and John Facenda ) created mythology out of what you could see with your own two eyes. No small feat.
I won't begrudge anyone elcted their bust in Canton, but I do think they are missing several people for sure.
And if its the Pro Football HOF well........
You bring up some great points. But there were no pro founders (I assume you mean NFL). Remember the HOF is called the "professional" HOF, not the NFL HOF.
Let me make another point. I'm going to use a comparison to baseball. Alexander Cartwright is credited with being the father of baseball. He started the Knickerbocker Baseball Club in 1845, where the players paid a $2 initiation fee and $5 annual dues. That's right, the players paid to play. Yet Cartwright is in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Why? Because the baseball HOF embraces all individuals who contribute to the professional game today. Why should the football hall of fame be any different?
Now true, football has two hall of fames...college and pro. But the college game today has a much different meaning than it did 100 years ago. Some would argue (not me) that it is the minor leagues for the NFL. Certainly that wasn't the case back then. Plus, if you haven't noticed...the college hof can barely sustain itself.
Yes, I was associating the Pro Football HOF with the NFL.
There are many members who played Pro ball in different leagues as I'm sure you know. They did all seem to fold or be absorbed by the NFL at some point, though.
Billy Shaw played his entire career in the under- represented -by-the-hof-AFL, but.....the Bills are still represented by the NFL.
I would pose there are no alternatives for Professional Players to associate with to the extent that they would be considered a viable candidate for induction. The NFL is the standard bearer in this case.
Canton represents that standard for Pro American Football.
Canadian FB HOF is active, Football ( Soccer ) has it's own National HOF; Rugby is accounted for ...and South Bend reps the College game.
Quite well judging by a quick glance at the members and opening their doors a dozen years before Canton. Baseball has Cooperstownand even the Negro Leagues museum can't or won't be absorbed into that .
I would say though that College is a farm club to NFL glory & riches- as opposed to , you know, learning- but ONLY for the 16% of players who get a shot to play pro .
For most players it's Saturday glory and Godspeed.
Lets use Desmond Howard as an example: sure-fire CHOF but probably not on the pro level. Many such players like that, so why incorporate both institutions when one player could be superb on one level and just average at the pro level?
And if you're mentioning Baseball that is it's own animal . Very tough club to get invited to. So if early football college players & coaches should qualify for Canton though they never were involved directly and dismissed it -and baseball welcomes all and any who contribute - are not A ,AA ,AAA Baseball clubbers theoretically eligible? Simply by their career in the minors which is a direct -and professional- avenue to the majors? How about College players? ( Really- I don't know if there is such a thing for baseball- I'm guessing it would be something specific to the school ? )
btw- I'm not really sure what you mean " The College HOF can barely sustain itself "
I know it's supposed to move in a year or so...
Maybe the Basketball HOF has it right: If you hold that ball on any level, in the world, you are eligible.
I think you are missing my point. I'm not talking about players. I'm specifically talking about certain select college coaches, prior to the establishment of regular professional leagues, who directly developed the game of football. I feel their contributions go beyond the college/professional ranks and are felt throughout all areas of american football. Plus they held the ONLY professional football positions available during their day....coaching. Remember, it's the pro HOF, not the NFL HOF.
Walter Camp took the game of rugby and created the line of scrimmage, snap-back from center, the system of downs, and the points system, as well as the introduction of the now-standard offensive arrangement of players (a seven-man offensive line and a four-man backfield consisting of a quarterback, two halfbacks, and a fullback). Camp was also responsible for introducing the "safety", the awarding of two points to the defensive side for tackling a ball carrier in his own end zone followed by a free kick by the offense from its own 20-yard line. (thanks wiki)
If we are going to induct film producers and staticians than I think Walter Camp deserves consideration as a "contributor" too.
And yea, the College Football Hall of Fame is having a rough going. They couldn't meet projections (visitors and sales)in South Bend so they are moving to Atlanta. South Bend owns the building which housed the Hall and they felt it was a financial drain. As of Dec 2010 they were still $20 million short of the required $50 million to move to Atlanta. Don't know the latest numbers.
www,CSASHOWS.com
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!!
Rocke
Sorry for not saying so before, but I really enjoyed reading your post about YA Tittle. The man is a legend of his time and one of the few greats left from his era. You are VERY lucky to have shared a beer (or two) with him - and I loved how he was drinking out of a YA Tittle mug...lol. Thank you so much for posting the pictures.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Found a Hall of Fame gift shop catalog from 20 years ago. They made 4,950 steins each, of four different quarterbacks. I have a Otto Graham and a Y.A. Tittle. They also made Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr. They sold for 60.00 EACH !!!! I have paid less than that for both steins COMBINED. I am still looking for the Starr and Unitas to complete my collection.
On the Ebay front, have received two offers through Ebay for the Bill Walsh PROOF card , and a couple of offers by Email for the Steve Owen book. Just talked to a local collector Thursday, and he said he would give me 500.00 for the Hickerson GLA HoF weekend if I still had it then, so hope he sticks to his word !!!!
Will be picking up Minnesota Vikings Hall of Famer Randall McDaniel Saturday evening up in Cleveland. During the hour drive back to Canton, he will, of course, be subjected to hearing about my rec-room/autograph collection. Hopefully, he becomes the EIGHTH Hall of Famer I get to sign my wall. Look forward to spending some time with him.
Rocke
<< <i>Hey Dave, nice item. I told you, I knew you would get it for that price. Congrats on a nice pick-up.
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!!
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke! I always done well in NJ regardless of the promoter but did show was a BUST. It was poorly promoted. It was the 4th CSA show in a row that was a bust. I'm taking a break so I will be skipping Chantilly and instead going on vacation in the Pacific NW. Thankfully I did great in Huggins and Scott. I saw Tittle at CSA with his son. I dropped your name and it took a minute to jog his memory. I filed for my HOF media credentials so I'll see you in Canton. BTW I'd like to move my insigned GLA series 1-6---do you know what it might retail for?
<< <i>Hey Dave, nice item. I told you, I knew you would get it for that price. Congrats on a nice pick-up.
Hey Joe, how did the show go? Look forward to hearing about it. Don't know for sure yet, but looks like a pretty good chance I will be at the July show in Chantilly, but probably Friday and Saturday only.
I have just listed three pretty nice items on Ebay. A signed PSA/DNA authenticated Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art card with a BIN of $540.00. A Goal Line Art "PROOF" card of 49er coach Bill Walsh with a price of $450.00 or best offer, and a PSA/DNA authenticated, autographed copy of The Steve Owen book from 1952, My Kind of Football with a price of $1,200.00 or best offer. If anyone on this thread is interested in one (or more ?) of my items, please contact me through this thread.
Speaking of this thread, is it just me, or have things been VERY quiet lately. Hope everyone is enjoying a nice summer !!!!
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke! I always done well in NJ regardless of the promoter but did show was a BUST. It was poorly promoted. It was the 4th CSA show in a row that was a bust. I'm taking a break so I will be skipping Chantilly and instead going on vacation in the Pacific NW. Thankfully I did great in Huggins and Scott. I saw Tittle at CSA with his son. I dropped your name and it took a minute to jog his memory. I filed for my HOF media credentials so I'll see you in Canton. BTW I'd like to move my insigned GLA series 1-6---do you know what it might retail for?
<< <i>Don't know if anyone has looked at the current Huggins & Scott auction or not, but my friend Rod has quite a few of the lots in the auction, and it is all some VERY nice stuff. These lots are all duplicates of his sizeable collection. His Lot #'s are 332, 333, 338, 344, 345, 349, 350, 351, 352, and 471. The auction ends Wed. night. Right now I think that Lot #'s 349 and 351 are VERY underpriced. There is a Bill Hewitt payroll check that is far below for what they have been selling at. Very nice stuff indeed. >>
Thanks for that post - I did pick up lot 349 (20) football HOF signed letters with Mara and Unitis - I'm just back from a vacation and the package was waiting for me - can't wait to read the letters. Mike
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
By the way, if anyone is looking for a George Young autograph, check out NY Giants 70 Yrs of Pro Football Autograph George Young I bought one copy last night
<< <i>By the way, if anyone is looking for a George Young autograph, check out NY Giants 70 Yrs of Pro Football Autograph George Young I bought one copy last night >>
Wow - that's an AMAZING price!! Got one myself. Thanks so much!!!!
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
<< <i>Does anyone know an approximate value for a signed Jack Mara 1961 Topps Giants team card? I bought a huge lot of signed 1961 Topps cards (including a signed Henry Jordan rc!!!) and included was the Jack Mara card. I read that he died in the mid/late 60's but I wasn't sure whether his autographs are valuable. I also bought cards signed by Red Hickey and Allie Sherman...once again, I'm not sure of the value but I didn't pay much for either one.
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Ah, so it was you Greg who got that 61T Allie Sherman card ! Good for you...wasn't it like 8 bucks? And that Jack Mara Card- though beat up pretty good if it's the same one - was worth what you paid. If I'm talking about the same ebay auction all those cards went off at exactly the same time - difficult to focus on more than a couple. And if it is the same auction it was a consignment through Probstein123....any board feedback on this?
ps- if this wasn't the same auction you got these from all I've said is total gibberish !
Will just put the Bill Walsh and Gene Hickerson Goal Line Art cards for sale on my table during Hall of Fame week at Belden Village Mall. A local collector has offered me $500.00 for it, but he said he wouldn't have the money till then, so I'll just wait on that one and sell it to him then.
Now, about the Steve Owen book, which I also got a couple of Emails. I am going to be driving around 2009 Hall of Fame inductee Randall McDaniel this weekend. After I get back home from dropping him off at the airport ( probably around 9:00PM ) I am going to re-list the autographed Steve Owen book, My Kind of Football , on Ebay with a Buy it Now price of $899.00 + 10.00 Shipping/Insurance. As of right now, it is available to anyone on this thread for $840.00 and I will pay for Shipping/Insurance. In case you missed it, the Ebay # was 120738739055. Book itself is in Very good condition. Dustcover does have some paper loss. Every page in the book is virtually perfect. There ZERO tears to ANY page, in fact, there is not even a single folded page corner (dogear). Autograph is in blue ballpoint pen and is OUTSTANDING. Comes with a full LOA from Jim Spence. I do need payment sent ASAP if someone from this thread wants to buy this gem. If you look on Ebay on completed listings, you can see the pictures I had posted. I had been contacted by two different people from this thread a few weeks ago about buying this item, but could not come to an agreement with either of them on a price that was satisfactory to both of us. I have SUBSTANTIALLY lowered my asking price, but for personal reasons, I must sell something of value. When you see the condition of the book itself, and the autograph specifically, you will see for yourself why I am so upset about selling this, but as I said, Life dictates that I must let one of my "prizes" go. I really want it to go to someone on this thread.
In fact, down the road, if the new owner wants to sell, VERY good chance that I would re-purchase for 100% of what they pay me for it. I can be Emailed at sweanes@live.com or contact me through this thread.
THANKS VERY MUCH.
Rocke
<< <i>
<< <i>Does anyone know an approximate value for a signed Jack Mara 1961 Topps Giants team card? I bought a huge lot of signed 1961 Topps cards (including a signed Henry Jordan rc!!!) and included was the Jack Mara card. I read that he died in the mid/late 60's but I wasn't sure whether his autographs are valuable. I also bought cards signed by Red Hickey and Allie Sherman...once again, I'm not sure of the value but I didn't pay much for either one.
Thanks in advance.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Ah, so it was you Greg who got that 61T Allie Sherman card ! Good for you...wasn't it like 8 bucks? And that Jack Mara Card- though beat up pretty good if it's the same one - was worth what you paid. If I'm talking about the same ebay auction all those cards went off at exactly the same time - difficult to focus on more than a couple. And if it is the same auction it was a consignment through Probstein123....any board feedback on this?
ps- if this wasn't the same auction you got these from all I've said is total gibberish ! >>
We're talking about the same cards. I bought over 60 cards from Probstein123 including the Henry Jordan rc and several other tough signatures (Bob Dee, Ross O'Hanley, ect...). It's too bad that such a wonderful set was broken, however I am thrilled to add those cards to my collection. Did you buy any cards from the auctions?
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>We're talking about the same cards. I bought over 60 cards from Probstein123 including the Henry Jordan rc and several other tough signatures (Bob Dee, Ross O'Hanley, ect...). It's too bad that such a wonderful set was broken, however I am thrilled to add those cards to my collection. Did you buy any cards from the auctions?
<< <i>
Yes, I picked up the Gene Brito card and the Buzz Guy. Both of those were the ones I set out to get, so I'm happy.
I did have your Allie Sherman as one I wanted and if I remember right there was a Joe Robb card as well that was also high on the list for me, been on the lookout for some time.
And that J.C. Caroline.
Funny thing. Like most members on this board I can tell you exactly what I DON'T have as far as these cards and players go. Maybe not everything I do have - but definitely what I don't. And I was sure I had Buzz Guy ! Man, I went through all my cards & binders, double checked my files and hard copy notes....what a doofus !
Sherman and Caroline are both guys I have been trying to pick up since forever - we all have those guys we just can't seem to track down !
There's a fun topic- who is your "white whale" ? That one guy on the want list you have missed out on, never seen, just can't add to your collection? And nobody can say Mara,Ray,Bidwell, etc. !
Also, re-listed the Steve Owen, My Kind of Football autographed book. Ebay # 120742815688.
Rocke
Sid Luckman Cut - Got it off ebay for $12!!!! Can't believe it wasn't secretarial!!
Ed Healey
Wayne Millner
Mike Michalske
Jimmy Conzelman - Signed James G
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
George Halas Index Card
Tom Landry Score Card (TTM back in the day)
Earl "Dutch" Clark Index Card
Emlen Tunnell 1955 Bowman (Got it for $22!!!!!)
Gene Hickerson Cut
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Did you send me a friend request on Facebook? Your Private Message thing is turned off on this site. Since there are no pictures of you on FB, wasn't sure if it's you or not. Let me know. Tell Zach I said hello. Are you coming over for HOF this year?
Take care. Rocke
<< <i>Nice group, raiderguy10 - and I agree about the Conzleman. >>
Thanks guys. I had fun showing them.
These were my other PSA/DNA submissions this year. These I consider my "rummage sale ebay finds" throughout the years. The first 6 were my 2nd submission. They were part of a $15 submittal for encapsulation and grading the autograph (I didn't know there was a $10 submission at this point)
Paul Brown - Got his 1974 autobiography and nameplate for $14 DLVD
Doak Walker - $5 DLVD
Art Rooney Thank You Note - $24 DLVD
Ernie Nevers Envelope - $32 DLVD
Bill George Index Cad - $17 DLVD
Jack Christiansen Card - $22 DLVD
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Now this I have a problem with. Do you think whoever purchased this realizes that it isn't the elder Tim Mara considering he overpaid by about $700? The seller deliberately was hoping to find a buyer who didn't know what they were buying. I know this seller has a lot of hard to find HOF items, but no matter how desparate I am I will not be doing business with them.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
"Timothy J. Mara, a grandson of the football Giants' founder and a former co-owner whose outspoken criticism of the Giants led to a long family feud. Mr. Mara's father, Jack, and an uncle, Wellington Mara, were named the co-owners of the Giants in 1930 by Timothy Mara, who had put together the team in 1925 for a $500 franchise fee. Over the next 40 years, the Mara family presided over a team that defined football in New York. From 1956 through 1963, the Giants played in six National Football League championship games, winning the title in 1956, and many of the players became the darlings of Madison Avenue. Tim Mara grew up on the Giants' sidelines, befriending many players. Frank Gifford referred to Mr. Mara as his closest friend when he was a rookie halfback in 1952. We offer a very rare signed 3x5 card. "
<< <i>I have had good dealings with this seller, although I think some of his prices lately have been off the grid. I see he's selling a Bill Swiacki for $350, while I had mine valued at $20 (so I raised it to $100 in my spreadsheet) I don't have Tim Mara the grandson, and haven't seen it up for auction otherwise. I don't know how much more explicit the item description could have been. It says
"Timothy J. Mara, a grandson of the football Giants' founder and a former co-owner whose outspoken criticism of the Giants led to a long family feud. Mr. Mara's father, Jack, and an uncle, Wellington Mara, were named the co-owners of the Giants in 1930 by Timothy Mara, who had put together the team in 1925 for a $500 franchise fee. Over the next 40 years, the Mara family presided over a team that defined football in New York. From 1956 through 1963, the Giants played in six National Football League championship games, winning the title in 1956, and many of the players became the darlings of Madison Avenue. Tim Mara grew up on the Giants' sidelines, befriending many players. Frank Gifford referred to Mr. Mara as his closest friend when he was a rookie halfback in 1952. We offer a very rare signed 3x5 card. " >>
There was a signed Giants letterhead he was on that sold for $26 a couple months ago on ebay. While the letterhead was addressed to an individual, I would still consider the letterhead more "collectible" than the index card.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
<< <i>There was a signed Giants letterhead he was on that sold for $26 a couple months ago on ebay. While the letterhead was addressed to an individual, I would still consider the letterhead more "collectible" than the index card. >>
I would agree with that! Sorry I missed it. M
Bill, Sue, Ben and I will be at Chantilly on Friday and Saturday only, and will have to leave on Sat. by 3:00 PM I will be taking a George Preston Marshall and the Steve Owen book. Hope to sell one or the other at the show. Hope to see you there.
Rocke
<< <i>http://cgi.ebay.com/Tim-J-Mara-signed-3x5-card-NY-Giants-owner-D-1995-/190492081775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5a367e6f
Now this I have a problem with. Do you think whoever purchased this realizes that it isn't the elder Tim Mara considering he overpaid by about $700? The seller deliberately was hoping to find a buyer who didn't know what they were buying. I know this seller has a lot of hard to find HOF items, but no matter how desparate I am I will not be doing business with them. >>
I don't think this Mara item is listed falsely in any way.
That being said I'm guessing the buyer believed they were purchasing the HOF'er Tim Mara.
The dollar amount is very high for TJ Mara - as is the norm with this seller. Very high prices for, admittedly, some nicer items.
This is an old discussion on this thread but in the case of Dealers spending hard and then holding collectors to the price that they set - standardizing the market value - then somebody spending the 750$ on TJ Mara probably isn't going to help anyone but Dealers.
And , of course, the collector who purchased TJ Mara .
Oh, and collectors who have stuff signed by TJ !!
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
I would just submit that this seller is proportionately high priced on many .....MANY items and it doesn't seem like an out and out deception in that context.
Go Raiders.
Hector Cowan - Princeton's first all-american of 1889 and inaugural member of the CFHOF.
Bill Warner - 1901-02 Cornell All-American and member of the CFHOF. Brother of Pop Warner. Signed football letter from the 1902 season.
Went to the airport tonight, and picked up Dallas Cowboy Hall of Famer Randy White.
I asked him if he was hungry on the way to the hotel. He said he was, and asked if there was a Waffle House, or a Denny's around. I said both were close, so it was off to a late night meal at Waffle House.
While there, I asked him if Coach Landry used to talk much about his playing days with the NewYork Giants. He said " Sh *t, I've already talked more with you since you picked me up at the airport than I talked to Landry in 14 years "
WOW !!!!! This is GREAT !!!!
Am picking him up in the AM. Feel 99.9 % sure that he will be Hall of Famer # 9 to sign my rec-room wall.
Will post Facebook pictures Sunday PM.
Rocke