Check out raresigs.com for a new update of signatures: "Arch Ward Letters," featuring signed letters from numerous individuals upon Ward's 25th year as Sports Editor if the Chicago Tribune. Includes letters from Curly Lambeau, Bobby Jones, Jim Thorpe, Connie Mack, Bud Wilkinson, Joe Stydahar, Les Horvath, Frank Thomas (Alabama/Notre Dame), Ray Schalk, Eddie Dyer, Patty Berg, Sam Snead, Bill Veeck, Lou Little, Joe McCarthy (baseball), Chick Evans and more.
Lambeau letter is currently on hold for a potential buyer and the Stydahar should be sold/paid for by this evening. All offers on letters will be considered and responded to.
Just a quick note to wish everyone a Happy Holiday season. Rocke, I also wanted to let you know that Fred is in the hospital in Pittsburgh and not doing very well. Fred is the fellow that you met at CSA with the cane. Really nice guy. I e-mailed him last week just to say Merry Christmas and his wife e-mailed me back and told me he wasn't doing so well. Here is his e-mail address if you want to send any wishes his way. the_sultan44@hotmail.com. Bart, the raresigs site looks awesome. I visit every once in a while to see what your up to. Anyway Merry Christmas to everyone and Happy New Year.
Hope everyone is having a happy holiday. I wanted to solicit some ideas on what to do with my 2nd Jim Thorpe autograph. I recently separated it from the paper with the other Thorpe autograph (yes the purist in me hated doing it). I recently contacted a paper conservator who quoted me a price of $600 to remove the glue stains, so I’ve decided to have it slabbed by PSA/DNA and try to sell it in order to recoup some of the money I spent buying the autograph collection it came from. Should I have it slabbed as is with the glue stain and additional writing which is almost certainly not Thorpe’s writing? The current cut is 5 ¾ inches x 2 inches. If I removed the additional writing and some of the glue stains it would be approximately 5 inches x 1 1/3 inches. Thanks, Tim
Hi Tim. If it's safe to assume that the date on the paper is the date that Thorpe signed, I would advise at least leaving that intact. I think it adds a bit more authenticity to the piece. If not, leave it as is and have it slabbed that way. I think other purists would also appreciate the piece as is in it's current condition. Good luck and keep us posted
Honestly....I wouldn't spend the money on cleaning up that piece. With the "r" in "Thorpe" wiped off, you're looking at a $300-$400 autograph on ebay - even if the stain was removed. Add the PSA/DNA authentication fee ($100) and your setting yourself up for a big loss.
I'd submit it to RRauction or Heritage (where they pay the authentication fees) as is and hope it gets a decent return (minus 20-25% commission).
<< <i>Hello Tim, Nice pick-up. Since you asked, I will tell you what I would do if it was mine. I just didn't want to be the FIRST to give my opinion!! Thanks Ken !! First of all, even though I have never before seen two Thorpe's on one item, if I owned it, I would ABSOLUTELY separate them. I wouldn't personally do it. I would take it to a professional frame shop and have them do it for me, to make sure all of the cuts are straight and clean. There is a shop here in Canton that does a lot of framing for the Hall and I have been friends with the owner for many years. Anyway, the top autograph, I would cut horizontal all the way across just ABOVE the two waterspots. I would also cut the other three sides, barely trimming off the TOP sheet that has the autographs, so that I could COMPLETELY get rid of the BOTTOM sheet from being visible. I would then have the frame shop centrally mount that slip onto an unlined , white 3 x 5 card. That one would be done. The bottom autograph is a little more tricky. I would trim off what would be the top of the remaining slip to get rid of those two waterspots. I would also trim the left, right and bottom, again to remove all visibility of the bottom sheet of paper. Then, assuming that the bottom edge was trimmed right along the edge of the top sheet, I would cut off the bottom 5/8" from left to right for 4" thereby getting rid of the big waterspot on the bottom ( including the black ink writing ) but I would leave the date. I would also cut VERTICAL on the right edge, trimming off about 3/8", so as to get rid of the waterspot on the right edge. I would then have that slip centrally mounted on a white unlined 3 x 5 card. Not a lot you can do about that mark through the "RP" in Thorpe, but if you put it on Ebay for like 1250.00 OBO, I think you should be able to get 900.00 without to much trouble. Of course, I would have them both encapsulated. Good Luck. Rocke >>
Hey Tim, just wanted to re-post this. Best of luck with it !!! Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I agree with Rocke on making the cut. I have to agree with Mark on the value though, I think it's a $500-$600 piece in the current condition (even after trimming). I hope you do well with it....good luck!
Thanks for all of advice. I have one dilema. The original piece has a PSA/DNA full LOA. When I contacted PSA/DNA to check on having them both slabbed I was told they could be slabbed as long as the invisible daub is still present. I agree that the cut should be trimmed a little but I'm afraid that if I cut too much I may remove the daub and have to pay another authentication fee. I personally think having to pay again is foolish because both are autographs a very distinguishable and are visable on the LOA. Any idea if there is a location where the daub is usually placed? Happy New Year, Tim
Does anyone have an Ed Sabol autograph that they would be willing to sell ? I am definitely interested. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Lots of interest so far and there is one person considering purchasing several of them, but won't have the money for about 10 days. So, if interested in anything I would say to contact me soon.
I hope everyone had a great holiday! It's that time of year again to go over our collecting goals for 2011 and how we did in 2010. Last year I focused my attention on 3 sets- The NFL HOF Signed Rookies Set, the NFL Auto Card Set (Any card) and the 1955 Topps All American Autographed Set. I also ended up starting the 1950 Bowman, 1951 Bowman, and 1952 Bowman Large and Small Autographed sets.
My goal for the NFL HOF Signed Rookies set was to focus on players from the 1933-1959 time period. This is definitely the toughest portion of the set and where I wanted to spend my time and energy. I also completed the TTM portion of this set, knocking off several other players throughout the set. For 2011, I want to add at least 20-30 cards with the focus remaining on the players/coaches for 1933-1959. In 2010, here is what I was able to add:
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto 1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto 1948 Bowman George McAfee 1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2) 1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto 1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto 1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto 1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto 1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto 1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3) 1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto 1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto 1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto 1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto 1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto 1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto 1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto 1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto 1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto 1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto 1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto 1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto 1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto 1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2) 1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto 1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto 1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto 1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto 1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto 1976 Topps Randy White Auto 1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto 1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto 1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto 1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto 1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto 1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto 1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto 1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto 1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto 1989 Score Michael Irvin 1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto 1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
My goal for the NFL HOF Auto Card (Any card) set was to add one of the missing cards for my collection. This was the only collecting goal I was unable to reach! With the few number of gum cards and limited cuts cards available, I was simply unable to located any of these players with the exception of Jim Thorpe. These cards are all extremely difficult to locate and I'm not surprised at all I couldn't make an addition here.
I still need the following for my set and I know these exist. For 2011, I would like to add one of the following:
Jimmy Conzelman Len Ford Steve Owen Paddy Driscoll Curly Lambeau Jim Thorpe
The final set I was working on was the 1955 Topps All American Auto set. My goal for this year was to reach 50% completion of this set signed. Finding signed cards for this set have been expensive and pretty difficult to come across. Just to give everyone an idea, in all of 2009 I was able to make one addition-Benny Friedman. However, 2010 was a different story! I was able to reach 53% completion with this set. For 2011, My goal is to reach 60% completion.
Here are the additions I was able to make: 1955 Topps All American Sammy Baugh Auto 1955 Topps All American George Sauer Auto 1955 Topps All American Charley O'rourke Auto 1955 Topps All American Ken Kavanaugh Auto 1955 Topps All American Bob Wilson Auto 1955 Topps All American Don Hutson Auto (Upgrade) 1955 Topps All American Ed Franco Auto 1955 Topps All American Amos Alonzo Stagg Auto 1955 Topps All American Bennie Oosterbaan Auto 1955 Topps All American Ed Weir Auto
Overall, I'm very happy with my progress in 2010. I'd love to hear how everyone did last year and what there goals are for 2011!
Reese
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto 1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto 1948 Bowman George McAfee 1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2) 1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto 1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto 1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto 1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto 1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto 1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3) 1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto 1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto 1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto 1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto 1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto 1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto 1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto 1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto 1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto 1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto 1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto 1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto 1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto 1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2) 1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto 1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto 1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto 1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto 1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto 1976 Topps Randy White Auto 1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto 1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto 1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto 1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto 1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto 1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto 1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto 1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto 1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto 1989 Score Michael Irvin 1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto 1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
Reese >>
Reese,
Happy New Year's to you and all the rest on the boards.
Nice pickups. Good luck on your remaing goals. Those will be tough. I was lucky to pick up the Driscoll, Conzelman and Lambeau in the summer of 2009. I couldnt believe the price that I picked them all up for and would do it again in a heart beat at the price i paid. This past year I was able to pick up a Thorpe (which cost more than the last 3 combined), the cut Owen error card (which PSA clearly marked for me) and a Edwards. I also picked up a few upgrades. Then I got two nice Jackson's TTM. And I had to fill out the 2010 class.
As always i am always on the look out for my last two that are currently possible...Dan Reeves and Len Ford. After that I will have to be on the look out for the first cuts of the impossibles!!
Jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is.
Collecting Pittsburgh Steelers and PFHOF Autographs
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is. >>
Hey Chris, Among the regular posters here, I am guessing that Greg , Jay, and Reese would be best qualified to put out a " Top 24 " or so list in order of the most difficult to obtain autographs that are POSSIBLE on a Gum Card. Rod and I ( with some input from Rich Albersheim ) put together a list of the " Top 24 " to obtain on ANY medium ( Goal Line Art card, index card, GPC, contract, Gum card, signed letter etc... about 2 years ago. I was actually planning on redoing the list shortly with Rod, as I know it has changed in the last couple of years. Bill Hewitt being the best example, as 3 years worth of Philadelphia Eagle game payroll checks have been coming out in the recent Huggins & Scott auctions. Will get together with him soon, and work on puting together an updated list on ANY medium soon. Hopefully Greg, Jay, and Reese will put out a Gum card list, and some of their thoughts. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Rocke, Jay: I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with on the lists.
Below is a few pictures of one of my newest additions. Its a love letter Bert Bell wrote to his wife Francis Upton in January 1934, it is mainly a personal letter but does contain some information about changing the Eagles gate prices to help support the team. The little card in the upper right corner is Bert Bell's personal 1958 Parks access pass. Does anyone else display their items? My house is beginning to look like a mini Hall
Collecting Pittsburgh Steelers and PFHOF Autographs
Here is the start of the list. I will go with auto'd cards that are by in large nearly impossible to exist. Most of them do to the dates of deaths of the people.
Charles Bidwell (d. 1947) Joe Carr (d. 1939) Guy Chamberlin (d. 1963) Joe Guyon (d. 1971) Wilbur Pete Henry (d. 1952) Bill Hewitt (d. 1947) Walt Kiesling (d. 1962) Tim Mara (d. 1959) George Preston Marshall (d. 1969) Fritz Pollard (d. 1986) Hugh "Shorty" Ray (d. 1956)
While we cant exclude that their arent auto'd cards of some of these guys quite a few either didnt even have a card for themselves or football cards barely existed prior to their deaths. Others it would have been a strectch to have a card auto'd by them for any reason.
I will post the next few lists with other notes as to rarity and $. Those factor a bit into the hardness of each auto'd card.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
alright here we go. i am sure greg and others will chime in on my list. i hope they do. this thread has been rather quiet for quite some time.
its tough to make these lists because you have a few important factors: one is just how tough is it to track down a signed card of said player, how easy the auto passes PSA if required to do so and the price one has to pay. first what i will do is list the tougher cards with some rough numbers of know cards and other notes. then maybe we should have a little debate between all of us to come up with the final list. that would add a little more to this thread while we all await the introduction of the next class on SB Sunday.
George Allen: there are 3 know cut autos and a handful of signed cards. theyd dont pop up much for sale. price is probably around $300-800.
Bert Bell: this is an interesting case, in 2004 there was 1 cut auto...then another 35 release in 2006...then another 100+ in 2009...so not as hard to find but arent an easy spy on ebay.
Jimmy Conzelman: there are 2 known cut autos...not sure if there are any signed cards. i got my 1/1 for a steal when it hit in the summer of 2009.
Paddy Driscoll: there is 1 known cut auto...died in 1968 so there could be a few signed cards. i got the one cut at the same time as the Conzelman at a great price too. i think both ended up slipping under the radar of the top guys here.
Turk Edwards: there are 12 know cuts from the 02 SP Lengends. there are some potential hand signed cards floating around but PSA has been tough on them.
Jim Finks: there are 2 know cuts. but there are hand signed PSA slabbed cards out there. not easy to find.
Len Ford: there are 4 known cuts form the same 02 SP series. there are also hand signed cards. all are tough to find.
Benny Friedman: there are 8 known cuts. there are a good number of hand signed cards, normall 77 TD Club cards.
Arnie Herber: there are ~30 known cuts. not sure if a hand signed card has ever passed through PSA or not. he died in 1969 more than likely the only hand signed cards would be a matchbook from 33 or 37 Wheaties Big Ten. the 32 Packers Walkers Cleaners are impossible to find.
Henry Jordan: until 2010 there were only hand signed cards out there and they were tough to spot. there were 50 cuts released in 2010.
Curly Lambeau: there are 4 known cuts. i havent heard of any hand signed ones. i got one of these at the same time as the driscoll and conzelman cuts. funny story. i was over in england for a conference then all three showed up on ebay. if you go back in this thread to mid july of 2009 you will see the posts about the buys.
Vince Lombardi: not as tough as you would think. there a a decent number of cuts and some hand signed out there. nearly always one of ebay of a cut, after all the throphy is named after him. however they dont come cheap.
Sid Luckman: this is a interesting one. there are plenty of cuts. however PSA is tough on hand signed cards.
Link Lyman: about 16 total cuts out there. i havent seen a hand signed card.
Wayne Millner: about 20 cuts but there are hand signed ones out there as well. still not easy to track down.
Earle Greasy Neale: only about 15 cuts. but there are hand signed cards out there. he was a baseball player as well so there were plenty of his cards out there.
Steve Owen: 5 cuts and 1 error cut. the error is an interesting story. its a steve owen cut auto in a steve owens cut card (heisman throphy winner). i picked up the cut from Huggins and Scott via one of our friends here. then i had to make sure PSA slabbed it correctly so i could get it in this set.
Dan Reeves: not the coach of the broncos but the owner of the chargers. no cuts that i know of but there a few hand signed cards. dont come up often on ebay.
Jim Thorpe: about 30 cuts out there but most will cost you around $4000 or more. i am sure there are hand signed cards out there as well. but again wouldnt be cheap.
George Trafton: he was like Bert Bell, impossible to find until 2007 when around 60 cuts hit the market. normally the price isnt bad as most collectors dont know who he is.
Emlen Tunnell: around 30 cuts but there are hand signed cards. just dont see many that often.
Bob Waterfield: use to be like Bell and Trafton. there were a handful of cuts until an explosion in 2007 and after. hand signed cards as well. i have exhibit signed and slabbed but PSA lists it as a post card.
Well those are the main toughies in my book. I am sure we will here from others about some others that should be added. Hopefully then we can get to some debate on the best order for the list.
Jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Does anyone know how many Henry Jordan checks hit the market in the last few years? I'm was shocked at just how low his autograph price has dropped just looking at the current buy it now prices.
Jay has a great list there. I have couple of little things to add.
Jimmy Conzelman- I think has 10 total cuts produced- 2001 F/X Cuts #/9 and Jay's 2009 Donruss Classics Cut #1/1 Turk Edwards- I've seen at least 5 1955 Topps All American Gum Cards Autographed floating around, with I know 3 confirmed in PSA/DNA or JSA holders. Arnie Herber- Recently there was a 1967 Philadelphia Packers logo card signed by Herber in a PSA/DNA blue flip holder. This was the first gum card I've seen signed. Walt Kiesling- I know there was a logo gum card last year that was signed. Does anyone know what happened with that card? I thought I read it was now in a JSA holder. Tuffy Leemans- I would add him to the list, few cuts exist and signed 77 touchdown cards are rare enough to be in this category. Johnny "Blood" McNally- Not aware of any cuts cards, but 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards with run you $500+ Joe Stydahar- 75 Fleer Immortal Roll cards will put you back around $250, not an easy auto to find.
It's tough judging what the top 10 would be in a given order. Based on what I've seen that I know exists, this is how my top ten cards would look. Of course this list can change at any given point of time with new cuts being produced. I know some of these autos in general aren't too difficult to locate (Conzelman, Lyman, Herber, Neale, Driscoll) but finding them on cards has been a challenge for all of us. I still need Lambeau, Owen, Ford, Conzelman, Driscoll and Thorpe for my set. I'm sure I'll get some slack for not putting Jim Thorpe in this list, but I just don't think he is that tough to find. The cuts are really expensive, but they are on ebay all the time!
#1. Curly Lambeau #2. Steve Owen #3. Dan Reeves #4. Len Ford #5. Paddy Driscoll #6. Turk Edwards #7. Jimmy Conzelman #8. Link Lyman #9. Greasy Neale #10. Arnie Herber
I'd love to see everyone's top 10! Lets get this debate started! Reese
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Just for the heck of it, here is how I would rank #11-20.
11. Jim Thorpe 12. Johnny McNally 13. Jim Finks 14. Wayne Millner 15. George Allen 16. Henry Jordan 17. Benny Friedman 18. Tuffy Leemans 19. Vince Lombardi 20. Emlen Tunnell
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
al davis is not easy but not tough either. i think its hard to put a living person on the tough list. there is always the off chance you can get that sig still.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Arnie Herber- Recently there was a 1967 Philadelphia Packers logo card signed by Herber in a PSA/DNA blue flip holder. This was the first gum card I've seen signed.
I won that card and have had it re-slabbed to a red flip. You can see a scan of it on my set registry
CONGRATULATIONS Ken !!!!! Nice pick-up. How many now, and who ?
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Thanks! Was that a decent price for a Fats Henry check?! Here is who I have left:
Tim Mara Curly Lambeau Charles Bidwell Joe Carr Fritz Pollard Hugh Shorty Ray Walt Kiesling Bill Hewitt
Think I should be able to pickup a Lambeau and Hewitt in the next year. I am guessing that my next (but unlikely) targets would be Pollard and Ray. After that, it seems near impossible. You can probably add Richter and Sabol to the list also since I need them like everyone else....
I hope everyone had a great holiday! It's that time of year again to go over our collecting goals for 2011 and how we did in 2010. Last year I focused my attention on 3 sets- The NFL HOF Signed Rookies Set, the NFL Auto Card Set (Any card) and the 1955 Topps All American Autographed Set. I also ended up starting the 1950 Bowman, 1951 Bowman, and 1952 Bowman Large and Small Autographed sets.
My goal for the NFL HOF Signed Rookies set was to focus on players from the 1933-1959 time period. This is definitely the toughest portion of the set and where I wanted to spend my time and energy. I also completed the TTM portion of this set, knocking off several other players throughout the set. For 2011, I want to add at least 20-30 cards with the focus remaining on the players/coaches for 1933-1959. In 2010, here is what I was able to add:
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto 1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto 1948 Bowman George McAfee 1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2) 1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto 1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto 1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto 1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto 1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto 1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3) 1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto 1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto 1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto 1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto 1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto 1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto 1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto 1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto 1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto 1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto 1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto 1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto 1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto 1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2) 1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto 1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto 1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto 1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto 1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto 1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto 1976 Topps Randy White Auto 1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto 1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto 1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto 1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto 1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto 1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto 1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto 1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto 1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto 1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto 1989 Score Michael Irvin 1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto 1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
My goal for the NFL HOF Auto Card (Any card) set was to add one of the missing cards for my collection. This was the only collecting goal I was unable to reach! With the few number of gum cards and limited cuts cards available, I was simply unable to located any of these players with the exception of Jim Thorpe. These cards are all extremely difficult to locate and I'm not surprised at all I couldn't make an addition here.
I still need the following for my set and I know these exist. For 2011, I would like to add one of the following:
Jimmy Conzelman Len Ford Steve Owen Paddy Driscoll Curly Lambeau Jim Thorpe
The final set I was working on was the 1955 Topps All American Auto set. My goal for this year was to reach 50% completion of this set signed. Finding signed cards for this set have been expensive and pretty difficult to come across. Just to give everyone an idea, in all of 2009 I was able to make one addition-Benny Friedman. However, 2010 was a different story! I was able to reach 53% completion with this set. For 2011, My goal is to reach 60% completion.
Here are the additions I was able to make: 1955 Topps All American Sammy Baugh Auto 1955 Topps All American George Sauer Auto 1955 Topps All American Charley O'rourke Auto 1955 Topps All American Ken Kavanaugh Auto 1955 Topps All American Bob Wilson Auto 1955 Topps All American Don Hutson Auto (Upgrade) 1955 Topps All American Ed Franco Auto 1955 Topps All American Amos Alonzo Stagg Auto 1955 Topps All American Bennie Oosterbaan Auto 1955 Topps All American Ed Weir Auto
Overall, I'm very happy with my progress in 2010. I'd love to hear how everyone did last year and what there goals are for 2011!
Reese >>
Reese,
Great post. I think that your most impressive achievement is your 1955 Topps AA set...you've made a TON of progress this year. Also, thanks for your help in rolling out the NFL HOF rc auto set. I know that its not a set that most people would seriously chase, however I've really enjoyed building that set along with you, Jason, and the other contributors to dedicated thread.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is. >>
The weighting system that I created several years ago was based on 2 factors - the price of a signed 3x5 index card and how long the player has been deceased. The weighting isn't perfect, but is broadly accurate. See below:
Bert Bell 10 Charles Bidwell 10 Joe Carr 10 Guy Chamberlin 10 Wilbur Pete Henry 10 Bill Hewitt 10 Walt Kiesling 10 Curly Lambeau 10 Tim Mara 10 George Preston Marshall 10 Steve Owen 10 Hugh "Shorty" Ray 10 Jim Thorpe 10 Jimmy Conzelman 9 Paddy Driscoll 9 Henry Jordan 9 Dan Reeves 9 Turk Edwards 8 Joe Guyon 8 Arnie Herber 8 Alphonse "Tuffy" Leemans 8 Vince Lombardi 8 John "Blood" McNally 8 George Allen 7 Len Ford 7 Carl Hubbard 7 Wayne Millner 7 Earle "Greasy" Neale 7 George Trafton 7 Emlen Tunnell 7 Cliff Battles 6 Dutch Clark 6 Bill George 6 Ed Healey 6 Frank "Bruiser" Kinard 6 Link Lyman 6 Ernie Nevers 6 Ken Strong 6 Jim Finks 5 Benny Friedman 5 George Halas 5 Joe Stydahar 5 Norm Van Brocklin 5 Bob Waterfield 5 Jack Christiansen 4 Clarke Hinkle 4 Bobby Layne 4 Mike Michalske 4 Bronko Nagurski 4 Fritz Pollard 4 Art Rooney 4 Paul E. Brown 3 Buck Buchanan 3 Ray Flaherty 3 Dan Fortmann 3 Harold "Red" Grange 3 Mel Hein 3 Walter Payton 3 Alex Wojciechowicz 3 Morris "Red" Badgro 2 Roosevelt Brown 2 Tony Canadeo 2 George Connor 2 Al Davis 2 Weeb Ewbank 2 Tom Fears 2 Frank Gatski 2 Sid Gillman 2 Otto Graham 2 Lou Groza 2 Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch 2 Don Hutson 2 Tom Landry 2 Richard "Night Train" Lane 2 Sid Luckman 2 Wellington Mara 2 Marion Motley 2 George Musso 2 Ray Nitschke 2 Leo Nomellini 2 Jim Parker 2 Pete Rozelle 2 Tex Schramm 2 Hank Stram 2 Clyde "Bulldog" Turner 2 Johnny Unitas 2 Doak Walker 2 Mike Webster 2 Arnie Weinmeister 2 Herb Adderley 1 Marcus Allen 1 Lance Alworth 1 Doug Atkins 1 Lem Barney 1 Sammy Baugh 1 Chuck Bednarik 1 Bobby Bell 1 Raymond Berry 1 Elvin Bethea 1 Fred Biletnikoff 1 George Blanda 1 Mel Blount 1 Terry Bradshaw 1 Jim Brown 1 Willie Brown 1 Bob Brown 1 Nick Buoniconti 1 Dick Butkus 1 Earl Campbell 1 Dave Casper 1 Lou Creekmur 1 Larry Csonka 1 Willie Davis 1 Len Dawson 1 Joe DeLamielleure 1 Eric Dickerson 1 Dan Dierdorf 1 Mike Ditka 1 Art Donovan 1 Tony Dorsett 1 Bill Dudley 1 Carl Eller 1 John Elway 1 Dan Fouts 1 Joe Gibbs 1 Frank Gifford 1 Bud Grant 1 Joe Greene 1 Forrest Gregg 1 Bob Griese 1 Jack Ham 1 Dan Hampton 1 John Hannah 1 Franco Harris 1 Mike Haynes 1 Ted Hendricks 1 Paul Hornung 1 Ken Houston 1 Sam Huff 1 Lamar Hunt 1 Jimmy Johnson 1 John Henry Johnson 1 Charlie Joiner 1 David "Deacon" Jones 1 Stan Jones 1 Sonny Jurgensen 1 Jim Kelly 1 Leroy Kelly 1 Paul Krause 1 Jack Lambert 1 Jim Langer 1 Willie Lanier 1 Steve Largent 1 Yale Lary 1 Dante Lavelli 1 Marv Levy 1 Bob Lilly 1 Larry Little 1 James Lofton 1 Howie Long 1 Ronnie Lott 1 Tom Mack 1 John Mackey 1 Gino Marchetti 1 Dan Marino 1 Ollie Matson 1 Don Maynard 1 George McAfee 1 Mike McCormack 1 Tommy McDonald 1 Hugh McEhenny 1 Bobby Mitchell 1 Ron Mix 1 Joe Montana 1 Lenny Moore 1 Mike Munchak 1 Anthony Munoz 1 Joe Namath 1 Ozzie Newsome 1 Chuck Noll 1 Merlin Olsen 1 Jim Otto 1 Alan Page 1 Clarence "Ace" Parker 1 Joe Perry 1 Pete Pihos 1 Mel Renfro 1 John Riggins 1 Jim Ringo 1 Andy Robustelli 1 Dan Rooney 1 Barry Sanders 1 Gale Sayers 1 Joe Schmidt 1 Lee Roy Selmon 1 Billy Shaw 1 Art Shell 1 Don Shula 1 O.J. Simpson 1 Mike Singletary 1 Jackie Slater 1 Jackie Smith 1 Bob St. Clair 1 John Stallworth 1 Bart Starr 1 Roger Staubach 1 Ernie Stautner 1 Jan Stenerud 1 Dwight Stephenson 1 Lynn Swann 1 Fran Tarkenton 1 Charley Taylor 1 Jim Taylor 1 Lawrence Taylor 1 Y.A. Tittle 1 Charley Trippi 1 Gene Upshaw 1 Steve Van Buren 1 Bill Walsh 1 Paul Warfield 1 Randy White 1 Dave Wilcox 1 Bill Willis 1 Larry Wilson 1 Kellen Winslow 1 Willie Wood 1 Ron Yary 1 Steve Young 1 Jack Youngblood 1
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Here is the start of the list. I will go with auto'd cards that are by in large nearly impossible to exist. Most of them do to the dates of deaths of the people.
Charles Bidwell (d. 1947) Joe Carr (d. 1939) Guy Chamberlin (d. 1963) Joe Guyon (d. 1971) Wilbur Pete Henry (d. 1952) Bill Hewitt (d. 1947) Walt Kiesling (d. 1962) Tim Mara (d. 1959) George Preston Marshall (d. 1969) Fritz Pollard (d. 1986) Hugh "Shorty" Ray (d. 1956)
While we cant exclude that their arent auto'd cards of some of these guys quite a few either didnt even have a card for themselves or football cards barely existed prior to their deaths. Others it would have been a strectch to have a card auto'd by them for any reason.
I will post the next few lists with other notes as to rarity and $. Those factor a bit into the hardness of each auto'd card. >>
I agree w/ Jay's list that autographs of the above players are currently impossible to obtain on a card and card companies have not yet produced cut auto'd cards. Of those 11 HOFers, an authentic Walt Kiesling may exist and I've heard rumors of authentic signed Redskins cards of GPM. Of the remaining HOFers, it's possible that signed gum cards of Tim Mara, Guy Chamberlin and Joe Guyon exist, however the remaining six HOFers (Bidwell, Carr, Henry, Hewitt, Pollard and Ray) are likely only possible if and when card companies produce cut auto'd cards of them. I wish they'd stop issuing cut auto'd cards of HOFers whose autographs are plentiful and focus on the tough HOFers.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Does anyone know how many Henry Jordan checks hit the market in the last few years? I'm was shocked at just how low his autograph price has dropped just looking at the current buy it now prices.
Jay has a great list there. I have couple of little things to add.
Jimmy Conzelman- I think has 10 total cuts produced- 2001 F/X Cuts #/9 and Jay's 2009 Donruss Classics Cut #1/1 Turk Edwards- I've seen at least 5 1955 Topps All American Gum Cards Autographed floating around, with I know 3 confirmed in PSA/DNA or JSA holders. Arnie Herber- Recently there was a 1967 Philadelphia Packers logo card signed by Herber in a PSA/DNA blue flip holder. This was the first gum card I've seen signed. Walt Kiesling- I know there was a logo gum card last year that was signed. Does anyone know what happened with that card? I thought I read it was now in a JSA holder. Tuffy Leemans- I would add him to the list, few cuts exist and signed 77 touchdown cards are rare enough to be in this category. Johnny "Blood" McNally- Not aware of any cuts cards, but 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards with run you $500+ Joe Stydahar- 75 Fleer Immortal Roll cards will put you back around $250, not an easy auto to find.
It's tough judging what the top 10 would be in a given order. Based on what I've seen that I know exists, this is how my top ten cards would look. Of course this list can change at any given point of time with new cuts being produced. I know some of these autos in general aren't too difficult to locate (Conzelman, Lyman, Herber, Neale, Driscoll) but finding them on cards has been a challenge for all of us. I still need Lambeau, Owen, Ford, Conzelman, Driscoll and Thorpe for my set. I'm sure I'll get some slack for not putting Jim Thorpe in this list, but I just don't think he is that tough to find. The cuts are really expensive, but they are on ebay all the time!
#1. Curly Lambeau #2. Steve Owen #3. Dan Reeves #4. Len Ford #5. Paddy Driscoll #6. Turk Edwards #7. Jimmy Conzelman #8. Link Lyman #9. Greasy Neale #10. Arnie Herber
I'd love to see everyone's top 10! Lets get this debate started! Reese >>
Reese,
Great analysis. I would rank the top 15 toughest HOFers on gum cards / cut auto'd cards as:
1. Curly Lambeau - only a couple cut auto's exist...no signed gum cards confirmed to exist. His top ranking is because he's a Packer which makes his autograph that much more sought after 2. Paddy Driscoll - only one cut auto'd exists and no signed gum cards confirmed to exist. 3. Dan Reeves - I know of only 2 signed gum cards that exist - I own one and Reese the other 4. Steve Owen - There are a handful of cut auto'd cards but I have only seen one signed gum card - and it was rejected by PSA. His signed 52 Bowman card is my current white whale 5. Len Ford - There are a handful of cut auto'd cards and I have seen 2 or 3 signed rookies - I own one and there have either been one or two full 55 Bowman sets that have been auctioned. I have never seen a signed 57 Topps card of his. 6. Jim Thorpe - There have been multiple cuts released of him over the past several years - however I have never seen a signed 33 Sports King. I rate his above several tougher HOFers simply because of price (as a signed cut auto'd card will run at least $2500). 7. Greasy Neale - there are a handful of cut auto'd cards out there...plus some signed baseball cards (as he played for the Reds during the teens and 20's). I owned a signed baseball Exhibit of his that I sold last year. 8. Jimmy Conzelman - there are 1 to 2 dozen cut auto'd cards in existence, and no signed gum cards that I have confirmed. 9. Link Lyman - same as Conzelman 10. Turk Edwards - only a few cut auto'd cards have been released, however he is possible on his 35 National Chicle and 55 Topps AA cards. As Reese pointed out, there are at least a half dozen signed 55 Topps AA Turk Edwards in circulation - not counting the forgery that I purchased from CJ and still have in my collection. 11. Arnie Herber - he was really tough until several years back when they started to issue cut auto'd card of him. Frank owns the only signed gum card that I've seen. 12. Tuffy Leemans - he would be nearly impossible except for the 1977 TD cards that Jack Wallin (and several other collectors) had signed back when the set was released. Tuffy died in 1978 and the only other auto'd cards available are cuts. 13. Johnny McNally - would be nearly impossible except for the signed 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards that Jack Wallin (and several other collectors) had signed in the mid 70's. He died shortly thereafter. 14. Jim Finks - I've seen around 10 signed gum cards from the early 50's Bowman sets. 15. Wayne Millner - would be nearly impossible except for the 74/75 Immortal Roll sets. 16. George Allen - I've seen around a dozen signed gum cards... 17. Henry Jordan - I've seen around 8 signed gum cards and his autograph was very difficult before the recent flood of his cancelled checks. 18. Benny Friedman - I've seen only 1 signed 55 Topps AA - and his 77 TD cards is fairly plentiful, although expensive. 19. Emlen Tunnell - Difficult but not impossible. Has signed gum cards and recently released cut auto'd cards. He's the least difficult of the bunch, although his signed rc is VERY tough to find. 20. Bert Bell / George Trafton - were impossible before a flood of cut auto'd cards were released starting several years ago.
Just my 2 cents.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Attached are the two signed Ed Sabol cards in my collection. I belive that I also have a signed IC. Does anyone have an exemplar of his autograph? I have nothing to compare them against.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Yes I did, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the info, and MAJOR CONGRATULATIONS on a nice pick-up. I am going to try VERY soon. I'll let you know how it turns out. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I would suggest that you guys write to Ed Sabol before he is elected (assuming that he will be). His address is 10869 E. Quartz Rock Rd. Scottsdale, AZ 85255. As you can see, I sent two 1988 Fleer NFL cards....but I'm sure that he'll signing anything that you send. Good luck.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I just received a TTM success from Ed Sabol last week, Ill try to post a picture of the card tonight when I get home. >>
And it is a VERY nice item by the way !! Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Here is a picture of my Ed and Steve Sabol cards. I sent out the request right before Thanksgiving and got Steve back in about a week and received Ed back last week.
Collecting Pittsburgh Steelers and PFHOF Autographs
Does anyone on here have or know of anyone with an Immaculate Reception game ticket that they would be interested in selling? I would like to get a full ticket but would also take a stub. If you know anyone please let me know.
Collecting Pittsburgh Steelers and PFHOF Autographs
Thanks guys for the advice on Ed Sabol. Bart was indicating the same thing, but I was having a hard time believing that he was still signing at 94 years old. Way to go Mr. Sabol! He must be doing fairly well in his old age, I should ask him for some health advice. Thanks again.
Comments
Lambeau letter is currently on hold for a potential buyer and the Stydahar should be sold/paid for by this evening. All offers on letters will be considered and responded to.
Here's a link to the letters: http://www.raresigs.com/archwardletters.htm
Good luck and keep us posted
Honestly....I wouldn't spend the money on cleaning up that piece. With the "r" in "Thorpe" wiped off, you're looking at a $300-$400 autograph on ebay - even if the stain was removed. Add the PSA/DNA authentication fee ($100) and your setting yourself up for a big loss.
I'd submit it to RRauction or Heritage (where they pay the authentication fees) as is and hope it gets a decent return (minus 20-25% commission).
Good luck!
Mark
<< <i>Hello Tim,
Nice pick-up. Since you asked, I will tell you what I would do if it was mine. I just didn't want to be the FIRST to give my opinion!! Thanks Ken !!
First of all, even though I have never before seen two Thorpe's on one item, if I owned it, I would ABSOLUTELY separate them. I wouldn't personally do it. I would take it to a professional frame shop and have them do it for me, to make sure all of the cuts are straight and clean. There is a shop here in Canton that does a lot of framing for the Hall and I have been friends with the owner for many years. Anyway, the top autograph, I would cut horizontal all the way across just ABOVE the two waterspots. I would also cut the other three sides, barely trimming off the TOP sheet that has the autographs, so that I could COMPLETELY get rid of the BOTTOM sheet from being visible. I would then have the frame shop centrally mount that slip onto an unlined , white 3 x 5 card. That one would be done.
The bottom autograph is a little more tricky. I would trim off what would be the top of the remaining slip to get rid of those two waterspots. I would also trim the left, right and bottom, again to remove all visibility of the bottom sheet of paper. Then, assuming that the bottom edge was trimmed right along the edge of the top sheet, I would cut off the bottom 5/8" from left to right for 4" thereby getting rid of the big waterspot on the bottom ( including the black ink writing ) but I would leave the date. I would also cut VERTICAL on the right edge, trimming off about 3/8", so as to get rid of the waterspot on the right edge. I would then have that slip centrally mounted on a white unlined 3 x 5 card. Not a lot you can do about that mark through the "RP" in Thorpe, but if you put it on Ebay for like 1250.00 OBO, I think you should be able to get 900.00 without to much trouble. Of course, I would have them both encapsulated. Good Luck.
Rocke >>
Hey Tim, just wanted to re-post this. Best of luck with it !!!
Rocke
I agree with Rocke on making the cut. I have to agree with Mark on the value though, I think it's a $500-$600 piece in the current condition (even after trimming). I hope you do well with it....good luck!
Ken
ARCH WARD LETTERS ONLY - http://www.raresigs.com/archwardletters.htm
The following prices are for forums.collectors.com members:
Shipping on all orders is $6
Insurance, if requested, will be extra
JIM THORPE
SALE PRICE-$1100
Regular Price-$1250
BOBBY JONES
SALE PRICE-$920
Regular Price-$1000
FRANK THOMAS
SALE PRICE-$250
Regular Price-$300
CONNIE MACK
REGULAR PRICE-$250
Sale Price-$225
LES HORVATH
SALE PRICE-$180
Regular Price-$200
BUD WILKINSON
SALE PRICE-$165
Regular Price-$175
RAY SCHALK
SALE PRICE-$130
Regular Price-$150
JOE MCCARTHY
SALE PRICE-$140
Regular Price-$150
BILL VEECK
SALE PRICE-$100
Regular Price-$120
CHICK EVANS
SALE PRICE-$75
Regular Price-$100
EDDIE DYER
SALE PRICE-$80
Regular Price-$100
COLLEGE FOOTBALL (Don Faurot, Tom Hamilton, Lefty James, Lou Little, Ed McKeever)
SALE PRICE-$140
REGULAR PRICE-$165
GOLF LETTERS (Patty Berg, Sam Snead, Chick Evans)
SALE PRICE-$150
Regular Price-$180
MISCELLANEOUS LETTERS (Dan Rogers, Fred Caserio, Dwight Green, Clifford Kenworthy, R.E. Peters, Charley Trippi, Dan Ferris, A.J. Jones, Jim Keown)
SALE PRICE-$85
Regular Price-$131
Rocke
Frank Thomas letter has been sold.
Lots of interest so far and there is one person considering purchasing several of them, but won't have the money for about 10 days. So, if interested in anything I would say to contact me soon.
http://www.raresigs.com/archwardletters.htm
Bart
bdbop@aol.com
I hope everyone had a great holiday! It's that time of year again to go over our collecting goals for 2011 and how we did in 2010. Last year I focused my attention on 3 sets- The NFL HOF Signed Rookies Set, the NFL Auto Card Set (Any card) and the 1955 Topps All American Autographed Set. I also ended up starting the 1950 Bowman, 1951 Bowman, and 1952 Bowman Large and Small Autographed sets.
My goal for the NFL HOF Signed Rookies set was to focus on players from the 1933-1959 time period. This is definitely the toughest portion of the set and where I wanted to spend my time and energy. I also completed the TTM portion of this set, knocking off several other players throughout the set. For 2011, I want to add at least 20-30 cards with the focus remaining on the players/coaches for 1933-1959. In 2010, here is what I was able to add:
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto
1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto
1948 Bowman George McAfee
1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2)
1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto
1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto
1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto
1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto
1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto
1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3)
1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto
1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto
1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto
1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto
1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto
1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto
1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto
1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto
1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto
1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto
1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto
1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto
1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto
1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2)
1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto
1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto
1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto
1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto
1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto
1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto
1976 Topps Randy White Auto
1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto
1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto
1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto
1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto
1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto
1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto
1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto
1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto
1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto
1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto
1989 Score Michael Irvin
1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto
1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
My goal for the NFL HOF Auto Card (Any card) set was to add one of the missing cards for my collection. This was the only collecting goal I was unable to reach! With the few number of gum cards and limited cuts cards available, I was simply unable to located any of these players with the exception of Jim Thorpe. These cards are all extremely difficult to locate and I'm not surprised at all I couldn't make an addition here.
I still need the following for my set and I know these exist. For 2011, I would like to add one of the following:
Jimmy Conzelman
Len Ford
Steve Owen
Paddy Driscoll
Curly Lambeau
Jim Thorpe
The final set I was working on was the 1955 Topps All American Auto set. My goal for this year was to reach 50% completion of this set signed. Finding signed cards for this set have been expensive and pretty difficult to come across. Just to give everyone an idea, in all of 2009 I was able to make one addition-Benny Friedman. However, 2010 was a different story! I was able to reach 53% completion with this set. For 2011, My goal is to reach 60% completion.
Here are the additions I was able to make:
1955 Topps All American Sammy Baugh Auto
1955 Topps All American George Sauer Auto
1955 Topps All American Charley O'rourke Auto
1955 Topps All American Ken Kavanaugh Auto
1955 Topps All American Bob Wilson Auto
1955 Topps All American Don Hutson Auto (Upgrade)
1955 Topps All American Ed Franco Auto
1955 Topps All American Amos Alonzo Stagg Auto
1955 Topps All American Bennie Oosterbaan Auto
1955 Topps All American Ed Weir Auto
Overall, I'm very happy with my progress in 2010. I'd love to hear how everyone did last year and what there goals are for 2011!
Reese
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
<< <i>Happy New Year everyone!
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto
1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto
1948 Bowman George McAfee
1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2)
1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto
1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto
1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto
1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto
1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto
1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3)
1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto
1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto
1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto
1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto
1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto
1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto
1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto
1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto
1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto
1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto
1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto
1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto
1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto
1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2)
1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto
1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto
1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto
1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto
1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto
1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto
1976 Topps Randy White Auto
1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto
1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto
1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto
1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto
1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto
1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto
1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto
1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto
1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto
1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto
1989 Score Michael Irvin
1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto
1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
Reese >>
Reese,
Happy New Year's to you and all the rest on the boards.
Nice pickups. Good luck on your remaing goals. Those will be tough. I was lucky to pick up the Driscoll, Conzelman and Lambeau in the summer of 2009. I couldnt believe the price that I picked them all up for and would do it again in a heart beat at the price i paid. This past year I was able to pick up a Thorpe (which cost more than the last 3 combined), the cut Owen error card (which PSA clearly marked for me) and a Edwards. I also picked up a few upgrades. Then I got two nice Jackson's TTM. And I had to fill out the 2010 class.
As always i am always on the look out for my last two that are currently possible...Dan Reeves and Len Ford. After that I will have to be on the look out for the first cuts of the impossibles!!
Jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is.
<< <i>Hello All,
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is. >>
Hey Chris,
Among the regular posters here, I am guessing that Greg , Jay, and Reese would be best qualified to put out a " Top 24 " or so list in order of the most difficult to obtain autographs that are POSSIBLE on a Gum Card. Rod and I ( with some input from Rich Albersheim ) put together a list of the " Top 24 " to obtain on ANY medium ( Goal Line Art card, index card, GPC, contract, Gum card, signed letter etc... about 2 years ago. I was actually planning on redoing the list shortly with Rod, as I know it has changed in the last couple of years. Bill Hewitt being the best example, as 3 years worth of Philadelphia Eagle game payroll checks have been coming out in the recent Huggins & Scott auctions.
Will get together with him soon, and work on puting together an updated list on ANY medium soon.
Hopefully Greg, Jay, and Reese will put out a Gum card list, and some of their thoughts.
Rocke
i will go an make a top 25 list and post it soon.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Below is a few pictures of one of my newest additions. Its a love letter Bert Bell wrote to his wife Francis Upton in January 1934, it is mainly a personal letter but does contain some information about changing the Eagles gate prices to help support the team. The little card in the upper right corner is Bert Bell's personal 1958 Parks access pass. Does anyone else display their items? My house is beginning to look like a mini Hall
Charles Bidwell (d. 1947)
Joe Carr (d. 1939)
Guy Chamberlin (d. 1963)
Joe Guyon (d. 1971)
Wilbur Pete Henry (d. 1952)
Bill Hewitt (d. 1947)
Walt Kiesling (d. 1962)
Tim Mara (d. 1959)
George Preston Marshall (d. 1969)
Fritz Pollard (d. 1986)
Hugh "Shorty" Ray (d. 1956)
While we cant exclude that their arent auto'd cards of some of these guys quite a few either didnt even have a card for themselves or football cards barely existed prior to their deaths. Others it would have been a strectch to have a card auto'd by them for any reason.
I will post the next few lists with other notes as to rarity and $. Those factor a bit into the hardness of each auto'd card.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
its tough to make these lists because you have a few important factors: one is just how tough is it to track down a signed card of said player, how easy the auto passes PSA if required to do so and the price one has to pay. first what i will do is list the tougher cards with some rough numbers of know cards and other notes. then maybe we should have a little debate between all of us to come up with the final list. that would add a little more to this thread while we all await the introduction of the next class on SB Sunday.
George Allen: there are 3 know cut autos and a handful of signed cards. theyd dont pop up much for sale. price is probably around $300-800.
Bert Bell: this is an interesting case, in 2004 there was 1 cut auto...then another 35 release in 2006...then another 100+ in 2009...so not as hard to find but arent an easy spy on
ebay.
Jimmy Conzelman: there are 2 known cut autos...not sure if there are any signed cards. i got my 1/1 for a steal when it hit in the summer of 2009.
Paddy Driscoll: there is 1 known cut auto...died in 1968 so there could be a few signed cards. i got the one cut at the same time as the Conzelman at a great price too. i think both ended up slipping under the radar of the top guys here.
Turk Edwards: there are 12 know cuts from the 02 SP Lengends. there are some potential hand signed cards floating around but PSA has been tough on them.
Jim Finks: there are 2 know cuts. but there are hand signed PSA slabbed cards out there. not easy to find.
Len Ford: there are 4 known cuts form the same 02 SP series. there are also hand signed cards. all are tough to find.
Benny Friedman: there are 8 known cuts. there are a good number of hand signed cards, normall 77 TD Club cards.
Arnie Herber: there are ~30 known cuts. not sure if a hand signed card has ever passed through PSA or not. he died in 1969 more than likely the only hand signed cards would be a matchbook from 33 or 37 Wheaties Big Ten. the 32 Packers Walkers Cleaners are impossible to find.
Henry Jordan: until 2010 there were only hand signed cards out there and they were tough to spot. there were 50 cuts released in 2010.
Curly Lambeau: there are 4 known cuts. i havent heard of any hand signed ones. i got one of these at the same time as the driscoll and conzelman cuts. funny story. i was over in england for a conference then all three showed up on ebay. if you go back in this thread to mid july of 2009 you will see the posts about the buys.
Vince Lombardi: not as tough as you would think. there a a decent number of cuts and some hand signed out there. nearly always one of ebay of a cut, after all the throphy is named after him. however they dont come cheap.
Sid Luckman: this is a interesting one. there are plenty of cuts. however PSA is tough on hand signed cards.
Link Lyman: about 16 total cuts out there. i havent seen a hand signed card.
Wayne Millner: about 20 cuts but there are hand signed ones out there as well. still not easy to track down.
Earle Greasy Neale: only about 15 cuts. but there are hand signed cards out there. he was a baseball player as well so there were plenty of his cards out there.
Steve Owen: 5 cuts and 1 error cut. the error is an interesting story. its a steve owen cut auto in a steve owens cut card (heisman throphy winner). i picked up the cut from Huggins and Scott via one of our friends here. then i had to make sure PSA slabbed it correctly so i could get it in this set.
Dan Reeves: not the coach of the broncos but the owner of the chargers. no cuts that i know of but there a few hand signed cards. dont come up often on ebay.
Jim Thorpe: about 30 cuts out there but most will cost you around $4000 or more. i am sure there are hand signed cards out there as well. but again wouldnt be cheap.
George Trafton: he was like Bert Bell, impossible to find until 2007 when around 60 cuts hit the market. normally the price isnt bad as most collectors dont know who he is.
Emlen Tunnell: around 30 cuts but there are hand signed cards. just dont see many that often.
Bob Waterfield: use to be like Bell and Trafton. there were a handful of cuts until an explosion in 2007 and after. hand signed cards as well. i have exhibit signed and slabbed but PSA lists it as a post card.
Well those are the main toughies in my book. I am sure we will here from others about some others that should be added. Hopefully then we can get to some debate on the best order for the list.
Jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Jay has a great list there. I have couple of little things to add.
Jimmy Conzelman- I think has 10 total cuts produced- 2001 F/X Cuts #/9 and Jay's 2009 Donruss Classics Cut #1/1
Turk Edwards- I've seen at least 5 1955 Topps All American Gum Cards Autographed floating around, with I know 3 confirmed in PSA/DNA or JSA holders.
Arnie Herber- Recently there was a 1967 Philadelphia Packers logo card signed by Herber in a PSA/DNA blue flip holder. This was the first gum card I've seen signed.
Walt Kiesling- I know there was a logo gum card last year that was signed. Does anyone know what happened with that card? I thought I read it was now in a JSA holder.
Tuffy Leemans- I would add him to the list, few cuts exist and signed 77 touchdown cards are rare enough to be in this category.
Johnny "Blood" McNally- Not aware of any cuts cards, but 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards with run you $500+
Joe Stydahar- 75 Fleer Immortal Roll cards will put you back around $250, not an easy auto to find.
It's tough judging what the top 10 would be in a given order. Based on what I've seen that I know exists, this is how my top ten cards would look. Of course this list can change at any given point of time with new cuts being produced. I know some of these autos in general aren't too difficult to locate (Conzelman, Lyman, Herber, Neale, Driscoll) but finding them on cards has been a challenge for all of us. I still need Lambeau, Owen, Ford, Conzelman, Driscoll and Thorpe for my set. I'm sure I'll get some slack for not putting Jim Thorpe in this list, but I just don't think he is that tough to find. The cuts are really expensive, but they are on ebay all the time!
#1. Curly Lambeau
#2. Steve Owen
#3. Dan Reeves
#4. Len Ford
#5. Paddy Driscoll
#6. Turk Edwards
#7. Jimmy Conzelman
#8. Link Lyman
#9. Greasy Neale
#10. Arnie Herber
I'd love to see everyone's top 10! Lets get this debate started!
Reese
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
11. Jim Thorpe
12. Johnny McNally
13. Jim Finks
14. Wayne Millner
15. George Allen
16. Henry Jordan
17. Benny Friedman
18. Tuffy Leemans
19. Vince Lombardi
20. Emlen Tunnell
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
<< <i>What do you all think about Al Davis? >>
I would personally put him in my top 30, he is by far the toughest living inductee.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
I won that card and have had it re-slabbed to a red flip. You can see a scan of it on my set registry
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Fabfrank HOF set
Todd
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Nice pick-up. How many now, and who ?
Did you get my email about Ed Sabol?
Thanks! Was that a decent price for a Fats Henry check?! Here is who I have left:
Tim Mara
Curly Lambeau
Charles Bidwell
Joe Carr
Fritz Pollard
Hugh Shorty Ray
Walt Kiesling
Bill Hewitt
Think I should be able to pickup a Lambeau and Hewitt in the next year. I am guessing that my next (but unlikely) targets would be Pollard and Ray. After that, it seems near impossible. You can probably add Richter and Sabol to the list also since I need them like everyone else....
Ken
<< <i>Happy New Year everyone!
I hope everyone had a great holiday! It's that time of year again to go over our collecting goals for 2011 and how we did in 2010. Last year I focused my attention on 3 sets- The NFL HOF Signed Rookies Set, the NFL Auto Card Set (Any card) and the 1955 Topps All American Autographed Set. I also ended up starting the 1950 Bowman, 1951 Bowman, and 1952 Bowman Large and Small Autographed sets.
My goal for the NFL HOF Signed Rookies set was to focus on players from the 1933-1959 time period. This is definitely the toughest portion of the set and where I wanted to spend my time and energy. I also completed the TTM portion of this set, knocking off several other players throughout the set. For 2011, I want to add at least 20-30 cards with the focus remaining on the players/coaches for 1933-1959. In 2010, here is what I was able to add:
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange Auto
1948 Bowman Sid Luckman Auto
1948 Bowman George McAfee
1948 Leaf Bill Dudley Auto (X2)
1948 Leaf Chuck Bednark Auto
1950 Bowman Otto Graham Auto
1951 Bowman Lou Creekmur Auto
1952 Bowman Small Joe Stydahar Auto
1952 Bowman Large Les Richter Auto
1955 Bowman John Henry Johnson (X3)
1955 Topps AA Don Hutson Auto
1956 Topps Colts Team Don Shula Auto
1957 Topps Tommy McDonald Auto
1961 Fleer Hank Stram Auto
1961 Fleer Sid Gilman Auto
1961 Fleer Ron Mix Auto
1961 Topps Don Maynard Auto
1964 Topps Bobby Bell Auto
1964 Topps Bills Team Ralph Wilson Jr Auto
1964 Philadephia Merlin Olsen Auto
1965 Philadelphia Carl Eller Auto
1965 Phialadelphia Paul Warfield Auto
1965 Philadelphia Dick Lebeau Auto
1965 Philadelphia Charley Taylor Auto (X2)
1967 Philadelphia Jackie Smith Auto
1971 Topps Willie Lanier Auto
1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas Auto
1972 Topps Gene Upshaw Auto
1973 Topps Dan Dierdorf Auto
1973 Topps Jack Ham Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Lamar Hunt Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Dan Fortmann Auto
1974 Fleer Immortal Roll Cal Hubbard Auto
1976 Topps Randy White Auto
1977 Touchdown Club George Musso Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Bill Willis Auto
1977 Touchdown Club Ray Flaherty Auto
1979 Topps John Stallworth Auto
1982 Topps Ronnie Lott Auto
1983 Topps Mike Singletary Auto
1984 Topps Jackie Slater Auto
1984 Topps Russ Grimm Auto
1985 Football Immortals Weeb Ewbank Auto
1985 Topps Mike Munchak Auto
1987 Topps Jim Kelly Auto
1989 ProSet Chuck Noll Auto
1989 Score Michael Irvin
1989 ProSet Marv Levy Auto
1991 ProSet Wellington Mara Auto
My goal for the NFL HOF Auto Card (Any card) set was to add one of the missing cards for my collection. This was the only collecting goal I was unable to reach! With the few number of gum cards and limited cuts cards available, I was simply unable to located any of these players with the exception of Jim Thorpe. These cards are all extremely difficult to locate and I'm not surprised at all I couldn't make an addition here.
I still need the following for my set and I know these exist. For 2011, I would like to add one of the following:
Jimmy Conzelman
Len Ford
Steve Owen
Paddy Driscoll
Curly Lambeau
Jim Thorpe
The final set I was working on was the 1955 Topps All American Auto set. My goal for this year was to reach 50% completion of this set signed. Finding signed cards for this set have been expensive and pretty difficult to come across. Just to give everyone an idea, in all of 2009 I was able to make one addition-Benny Friedman. However, 2010 was a different story! I was able to reach 53% completion with this set. For 2011, My goal is to reach 60% completion.
Here are the additions I was able to make:
1955 Topps All American Sammy Baugh Auto
1955 Topps All American George Sauer Auto
1955 Topps All American Charley O'rourke Auto
1955 Topps All American Ken Kavanaugh Auto
1955 Topps All American Bob Wilson Auto
1955 Topps All American Don Hutson Auto (Upgrade)
1955 Topps All American Ed Franco Auto
1955 Topps All American Amos Alonzo Stagg Auto
1955 Topps All American Bennie Oosterbaan Auto
1955 Topps All American Ed Weir Auto
Overall, I'm very happy with my progress in 2010. I'd love to hear how everyone did last year and what there goals are for 2011!
Reese >>
Reese,
Great post. I think that your most impressive achievement is your 1955 Topps AA set...you've made a TON of progress this year. Also, thanks for your help in rolling out the NFL HOF rc auto set. I know that its not a set that most people would seriously chase, however I've really enjoyed building that set along with you, Jason, and the other contributors to dedicated thread.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Hello All,
I noticed earlier on this forum that Greg M. had posted a ranking system for how hard autographed HOF cards were to obtain. Does anyone have an updated version or another system they use? I was curious to how some of these rankings might have changed or if anyone just ranks how rare a HOF autograph is. >>
The weighting system that I created several years ago was based on 2 factors - the price of a signed 3x5 index card and how long the player has been deceased. The weighting isn't perfect, but is broadly accurate. See below:
Bert Bell 10
Charles Bidwell 10
Joe Carr 10
Guy Chamberlin 10
Wilbur Pete Henry 10
Bill Hewitt 10
Walt Kiesling 10
Curly Lambeau 10
Tim Mara 10
George Preston Marshall 10
Steve Owen 10
Hugh "Shorty" Ray 10
Jim Thorpe 10
Jimmy Conzelman 9
Paddy Driscoll 9
Henry Jordan 9
Dan Reeves 9
Turk Edwards 8
Joe Guyon 8
Arnie Herber 8
Alphonse "Tuffy" Leemans 8
Vince Lombardi 8
John "Blood" McNally 8
George Allen 7
Len Ford 7
Carl Hubbard 7
Wayne Millner 7
Earle "Greasy" Neale 7
George Trafton 7
Emlen Tunnell 7
Cliff Battles 6
Dutch Clark 6
Bill George 6
Ed Healey 6
Frank "Bruiser" Kinard 6
Link Lyman 6
Ernie Nevers 6
Ken Strong 6
Jim Finks 5
Benny Friedman 5
George Halas 5
Joe Stydahar 5
Norm Van Brocklin 5
Bob Waterfield 5
Jack Christiansen 4
Clarke Hinkle 4
Bobby Layne 4
Mike Michalske 4
Bronko Nagurski 4
Fritz Pollard 4
Art Rooney 4
Paul E. Brown 3
Buck Buchanan 3
Ray Flaherty 3
Dan Fortmann 3
Harold "Red" Grange 3
Mel Hein 3
Walter Payton 3
Alex Wojciechowicz 3
Morris "Red" Badgro 2
Roosevelt Brown 2
Tony Canadeo 2
George Connor 2
Al Davis 2
Weeb Ewbank 2
Tom Fears 2
Frank Gatski 2
Sid Gillman 2
Otto Graham 2
Lou Groza 2
Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch 2
Don Hutson 2
Tom Landry 2
Richard "Night Train" Lane 2
Sid Luckman 2
Wellington Mara 2
Marion Motley 2
George Musso 2
Ray Nitschke 2
Leo Nomellini 2
Jim Parker 2
Pete Rozelle 2
Tex Schramm 2
Hank Stram 2
Clyde "Bulldog" Turner 2
Johnny Unitas 2
Doak Walker 2
Mike Webster 2
Arnie Weinmeister 2
Herb Adderley 1
Marcus Allen 1
Lance Alworth 1
Doug Atkins 1
Lem Barney 1
Sammy Baugh 1
Chuck Bednarik 1
Bobby Bell 1
Raymond Berry 1
Elvin Bethea 1
Fred Biletnikoff 1
George Blanda 1
Mel Blount 1
Terry Bradshaw 1
Jim Brown 1
Willie Brown 1
Bob Brown 1
Nick Buoniconti 1
Dick Butkus 1
Earl Campbell 1
Dave Casper 1
Lou Creekmur 1
Larry Csonka 1
Willie Davis 1
Len Dawson 1
Joe DeLamielleure 1
Eric Dickerson 1
Dan Dierdorf 1
Mike Ditka 1
Art Donovan 1
Tony Dorsett 1
Bill Dudley 1
Carl Eller 1
John Elway 1
Dan Fouts 1
Joe Gibbs 1
Frank Gifford 1
Bud Grant 1
Joe Greene 1
Forrest Gregg 1
Bob Griese 1
Jack Ham 1
Dan Hampton 1
John Hannah 1
Franco Harris 1
Mike Haynes 1
Ted Hendricks 1
Paul Hornung 1
Ken Houston 1
Sam Huff 1
Lamar Hunt 1
Jimmy Johnson 1
John Henry Johnson 1
Charlie Joiner 1
David "Deacon" Jones 1
Stan Jones 1
Sonny Jurgensen 1
Jim Kelly 1
Leroy Kelly 1
Paul Krause 1
Jack Lambert 1
Jim Langer 1
Willie Lanier 1
Steve Largent 1
Yale Lary 1
Dante Lavelli 1
Marv Levy 1
Bob Lilly 1
Larry Little 1
James Lofton 1
Howie Long 1
Ronnie Lott 1
Tom Mack 1
John Mackey 1
Gino Marchetti 1
Dan Marino 1
Ollie Matson 1
Don Maynard 1
George McAfee 1
Mike McCormack 1
Tommy McDonald 1
Hugh McEhenny 1
Bobby Mitchell 1
Ron Mix 1
Joe Montana 1
Lenny Moore 1
Mike Munchak 1
Anthony Munoz 1
Joe Namath 1
Ozzie Newsome 1
Chuck Noll 1
Merlin Olsen 1
Jim Otto 1
Alan Page 1
Clarence "Ace" Parker 1
Joe Perry 1
Pete Pihos 1
Mel Renfro 1
John Riggins 1
Jim Ringo 1
Andy Robustelli 1
Dan Rooney 1
Barry Sanders 1
Gale Sayers 1
Joe Schmidt 1
Lee Roy Selmon 1
Billy Shaw 1
Art Shell 1
Don Shula 1
O.J. Simpson 1
Mike Singletary 1
Jackie Slater 1
Jackie Smith 1
Bob St. Clair 1
John Stallworth 1
Bart Starr 1
Roger Staubach 1
Ernie Stautner 1
Jan Stenerud 1
Dwight Stephenson 1
Lynn Swann 1
Fran Tarkenton 1
Charley Taylor 1
Jim Taylor 1
Lawrence Taylor 1
Y.A. Tittle 1
Charley Trippi 1
Gene Upshaw 1
Steve Van Buren 1
Bill Walsh 1
Paul Warfield 1
Randy White 1
Dave Wilcox 1
Bill Willis 1
Larry Wilson 1
Kellen Winslow 1
Willie Wood 1
Ron Yary 1
Steve Young 1
Jack Youngblood 1
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Here is the start of the list. I will go with auto'd cards that are by in large nearly impossible to exist. Most of them do to the dates of deaths of the people.
Charles Bidwell (d. 1947)
Joe Carr (d. 1939)
Guy Chamberlin (d. 1963)
Joe Guyon (d. 1971)
Wilbur Pete Henry (d. 1952)
Bill Hewitt (d. 1947)
Walt Kiesling (d. 1962)
Tim Mara (d. 1959)
George Preston Marshall (d. 1969)
Fritz Pollard (d. 1986)
Hugh "Shorty" Ray (d. 1956)
While we cant exclude that their arent auto'd cards of some of these guys quite a few either didnt even have a card for themselves or football cards barely existed prior to their deaths. Others it would have been a strectch to have a card auto'd by them for any reason.
I will post the next few lists with other notes as to rarity and $. Those factor a bit into the hardness of each auto'd card. >>
I agree w/ Jay's list that autographs of the above players are currently impossible to obtain on a card and card companies have not yet produced cut auto'd cards. Of those 11 HOFers, an authentic Walt Kiesling may exist and I've heard rumors of authentic signed Redskins cards of GPM. Of the remaining HOFers, it's possible that signed gum cards of Tim Mara, Guy Chamberlin and Joe Guyon exist, however the remaining six HOFers (Bidwell, Carr, Henry, Hewitt, Pollard and Ray) are likely only possible if and when card companies produce cut auto'd cards of them. I wish they'd stop issuing cut auto'd cards of HOFers whose autographs are plentiful and focus on the tough HOFers.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Does anyone know how many Henry Jordan checks hit the market in the last few years? I'm was shocked at just how low his autograph price has dropped just looking at the current buy it now prices.
Jay has a great list there. I have couple of little things to add.
Jimmy Conzelman- I think has 10 total cuts produced- 2001 F/X Cuts #/9 and Jay's 2009 Donruss Classics Cut #1/1
Turk Edwards- I've seen at least 5 1955 Topps All American Gum Cards Autographed floating around, with I know 3 confirmed in PSA/DNA or JSA holders.
Arnie Herber- Recently there was a 1967 Philadelphia Packers logo card signed by Herber in a PSA/DNA blue flip holder. This was the first gum card I've seen signed.
Walt Kiesling- I know there was a logo gum card last year that was signed. Does anyone know what happened with that card? I thought I read it was now in a JSA holder.
Tuffy Leemans- I would add him to the list, few cuts exist and signed 77 touchdown cards are rare enough to be in this category.
Johnny "Blood" McNally- Not aware of any cuts cards, but 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards with run you $500+
Joe Stydahar- 75 Fleer Immortal Roll cards will put you back around $250, not an easy auto to find.
It's tough judging what the top 10 would be in a given order. Based on what I've seen that I know exists, this is how my top ten cards would look. Of course this list can change at any given point of time with new cuts being produced. I know some of these autos in general aren't too difficult to locate (Conzelman, Lyman, Herber, Neale, Driscoll) but finding them on cards has been a challenge for all of us. I still need Lambeau, Owen, Ford, Conzelman, Driscoll and Thorpe for my set. I'm sure I'll get some slack for not putting Jim Thorpe in this list, but I just don't think he is that tough to find. The cuts are really expensive, but they are on ebay all the time!
#1. Curly Lambeau
#2. Steve Owen
#3. Dan Reeves
#4. Len Ford
#5. Paddy Driscoll
#6. Turk Edwards
#7. Jimmy Conzelman
#8. Link Lyman
#9. Greasy Neale
#10. Arnie Herber
I'd love to see everyone's top 10! Lets get this debate started!
Reese >>
Reese,
Great analysis. I would rank the top 15 toughest HOFers on gum cards / cut auto'd cards as:
1. Curly Lambeau - only a couple cut auto's exist...no signed gum cards confirmed to exist. His top ranking is because he's a Packer which makes his autograph that much more sought after
2. Paddy Driscoll - only one cut auto'd exists and no signed gum cards confirmed to exist.
3. Dan Reeves - I know of only 2 signed gum cards that exist - I own one and Reese the other
4. Steve Owen - There are a handful of cut auto'd cards but I have only seen one signed gum card - and it was rejected by PSA. His signed 52 Bowman card is my current white whale
5. Len Ford - There are a handful of cut auto'd cards and I have seen 2 or 3 signed rookies - I own one and there have either been one or two full 55 Bowman sets that have been auctioned. I have never seen a signed 57 Topps card of his.
6. Jim Thorpe - There have been multiple cuts released of him over the past several years - however I have never seen a signed 33 Sports King. I rate his above several tougher HOFers simply because of price (as a signed cut auto'd card will run at least $2500).
7. Greasy Neale - there are a handful of cut auto'd cards out there...plus some signed baseball cards (as he played for the Reds during the teens and 20's). I owned a signed baseball Exhibit of his that I sold last year.
8. Jimmy Conzelman - there are 1 to 2 dozen cut auto'd cards in existence, and no signed gum cards that I have confirmed.
9. Link Lyman - same as Conzelman
10. Turk Edwards - only a few cut auto'd cards have been released, however he is possible on his 35 National Chicle and 55 Topps AA cards. As Reese pointed out, there are at least a half dozen signed 55 Topps AA Turk Edwards in circulation - not counting the forgery that I purchased from CJ and still have in my collection.
11. Arnie Herber - he was really tough until several years back when they started to issue cut auto'd card of him. Frank owns the only signed gum card that I've seen.
12. Tuffy Leemans - he would be nearly impossible except for the 1977 TD cards that Jack Wallin (and several other collectors) had signed back when the set was released. Tuffy died in 1978 and the only other auto'd cards available are cuts.
13. Johnny McNally - would be nearly impossible except for the signed 74 and 75 Immortal Roll cards that Jack Wallin (and several other collectors) had signed in the mid 70's. He died shortly thereafter.
14. Jim Finks - I've seen around 10 signed gum cards from the early 50's Bowman sets.
15. Wayne Millner - would be nearly impossible except for the 74/75 Immortal Roll sets.
16. George Allen - I've seen around a dozen signed gum cards...
17. Henry Jordan - I've seen around 8 signed gum cards and his autograph was very difficult before the recent flood of his cancelled checks.
18. Benny Friedman - I've seen only 1 signed 55 Topps AA - and his 77 TD cards is fairly plentiful, although expensive.
19. Emlen Tunnell - Difficult but not impossible. Has signed gum cards and recently released cut auto'd cards. He's the least difficult of the bunch, although his signed rc is VERY tough to find.
20. Bert Bell / George Trafton - were impossible before a flood of cut auto'd cards were released starting several years ago.
Just my 2 cents.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Rocke,
Did you get my email about Ed Sabol? >>
Yes I did, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the info, and MAJOR CONGRATULATIONS on a nice pick-up. I am going to try VERY soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Rocke
I just received a TTM success from Ed Sabol last week, Ill try to post a picture of the card tonight when I get home.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Greg,
I just received a TTM success from Ed Sabol last week, Ill try to post a picture of the card tonight when I get home. >>
And it is a VERY nice item by the way !!
Rocke
<< <i>I'm not sure, but was there a card of Sabol in the Pro Set sets?? >>
Frank,
Steve Sabol had a card in the 1989 Pro Set set. Check out my future HOF auto set - I have a scan of my signed card.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Ken