Thanks to everyone who purchased items from me recently. I didn't make my goal but every bit helped. I think many got some great items at great prices. All items have been sent so if you haven't received it you should by Monday the latest I would think.
Thanks again,
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Here is my auto'd Sinkwich (which I didn't buy from CJ). The auto is very close; however the F is definately different. I'm pretty sure the auto is good. On a separate note, the Goldberg looked a bit odd at first glance. I'll compare it against mine and let you know. Whatever happened w/ the Bruce Smith auto? Did it pass the quick opinion?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>PS I was also told by Rich A. that he had heard that PSA/DNA had paid " something like $10,000.00" for the one that they have. That was quite a few years ago. I have to believe it would go for quite a bit more than that now, if another authentic one surfaced. But then again, I did guess that a certain 1941 New York Giant team sheet with 6 autographs on it would go for about 2,500.00 more than it did go for, so....... what do I know? Rocke >>
Rocke,
Thanks for the info. Do you have anything signed by Fritz Pollard? He seems to be another extremely difficult autograph to find even though he died only 22 years ago. By the way, have you ever seen a Duke Slater autograph? I've read that he may eventually be a HOF finalist and I've been trying to find his autograph....but its eems to be extremely difficult to find.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I've looked at about 5 different Sinkwich examples tonight and they all look more like Jim's than ours. I've got it ready to send to PSA so I will know soon enough on both.
Still waiting to hear back from CJ on the Bruce Smith. I think it's good, I just want to make sure PSA thinks the same.
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
I am not an expert with Sinkwich autographs so I can't tell you why the difference between your two and the others. Perhaps he signed differently throughout his life. I will have to ask my friend mel if he knows anything.
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
The Slater I have is in a book prepared by James Peterson for the annual football luncheon put on by the Hinckley and Schmitt water company in Chicago just before the All Star game. Red Grange would be the master of ceremonies. One of the books he prepared was about Duke Slater, although this group of autographs was in the front of a diferent book - about Jim Thorpe.
I think this is the first time I have ever posted 3 in a row....but anyway
Does anyone subscribe to the 'Gridiron Greats' magazine? I understand it is a great magazine for us football autograph/memorabilia collectors. I was thinking of getting a yr. sub. but wondered what people thought about it.
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Do it Jim. Matter of fact, buy some of the back issues (all of them if they are available). Great articles on vintage material and autographs. You will not be dissappointed. Frank
Revmoran - Nice piece! I would kill to have that Hunk Anderson autograph:}.
Jim - Gridiron Greats is a really great source of information and prints a good number of autograph exemplars for comparison. About six months ago they sent me a free copy for trial and I liked the content. That said, I did find a ton of grammatical and spelling errors across the magazine. In some cases, there were 20+ mistakes in one article. It left me with the impression that the magazine was not highly professional. Not a big thing, but if you are an anal type it can be distracting:}. I think the subscription was $7.50/copy - 4 issues per year for $29.95.
I got an email from Albershiems tonight and he listed his top 15 HOF autograph list.
1. Hugh Shorty Ray 2. Charles W. Bidwill Sr. 3. Tim Mara 4. Bill Hewitt 5. Walt Kiesling 6. Joe Carr 7. Fritz Pollard 8. Len Ford 9. Dan Reeves 10. George Preston Marshall 11. Curley Lambeau 12. Fats Henry 13. Guy Chamberlin 14. Turk Edwards 15. Henry Jordan
What do you guys think? I think Carr is tougher Kiesling and Hewitt. I also think Ford is easier to find than Lambeau and George Preston Marshall. Any thoughts?
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Hey Reese, I agree with basically everything you said. Rich asked people to respond with their top 15 lists, so I took him up on it. I agree with you that Carr is tougher than Kiesling and Hewitt. I agree that Ford os easier than Lambeau, but I think he is tougher than Marshall. What I TOTALLY DISAGREE with though, is, how does he NOT have Steve Owen in the top 15. The list I sent him, that I put together with my friend Rod W. who now only needs Hugh Ray is, in order 1) Hugh Ray 2) Tim Mara 3) Charles Bidwell 4) Joe Carr 5) Bill Hewitt 6) Walt Kiesling 7) Pete Henry 8) Fritz Pollard 9) Earl (Curly) Lambeau 10) Dan Reeves 11) Steve Owen 12) Len Ford 13) George P. Marshall 14) Guy Chamberlin 15) Henry Jordan Reese, did you reply to Rich A.? Rocke Sweaney
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I guess the closest I'm coming to Carr is this season pass with a printed signature. When my father retired from the NFL in 1933 he was given a similar pass, only it was a "life-time" pass to any NFL game. He carried that in his wallet for years but somehow it got lost. I don't know if that had a printed signature or a pen signed autograph.
<< <i>Can we expand this list a bit? How about the next toughest 15? Any ideas? >>
Jim, When Rod and I put our list together, we actually did the top 24, so I will give what I have, for the next 9 anyway. 16) John (Paddy) Driscoll 17) Jim Finks 18) John (Blood) McNally 19) Arnie Herber 20) Albert (Turk) Edwards 21) Joe Guyon 22) Benny Friedman 23) Earle (Greasy) Neale 24) Jim Thorpe Obviously, when we came up with our "toughest two dozen" we did it with no regard to price, as Thorpe, PRICE-WISE, would probably be in the top 7 or 8, though he isn't that tough to find. I just did the Top 15 the first time, because that was what Rich A. did. Anyone have any thoughts on my next nine, or want to continue,as Jim asked for the next six. Also, My list is just to find a QUALITY, AUTHENTIC, autograph, on ANY medium, ( Check, document, 3x5 card,etc. I am sure the list would look VERY differentif it was limited to Gum Cards. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I would put Ernie Nevers and Jim Conzelman at the end of that list somewhere (#25 and #26?). I have found Driscoll and Finks to be much easier than Link Lyman or Blood McNally....but now I am just nitpicking:}. Well done on the lists.
A list like this fascinates me. I think it is because I would love to have a list like this of non-HOF'ers. A list that would almost be impossible to put together for a number of reasons.
I have never been into collecting the difficult HOF'ers because they are just too expensive. I would much rather have some no named guy who played in the 20's. Now, that being said, when I win the lottery tonight, (5, 7, 23, 45, 50) haha, I will be all about the HOF'ers.
It has been said and I agree that making a list like this should not be all about $. But it should, after the first 4 or 5 come into account to a degree.
That is why, I guess, everyone has Hugh Ray at the #1 spot. No amount of money can buy something that is not available. The question is: If you didn't care about price, who is the toughtest HOF football autograph to acquire? It might be better to list perhaps the top 5 like that and then group them according to the amount known (or percieved known) of each guy with monetary considerations.
I know of people/dealers selling the following in the top 10;
Fats Henry, Pollard, Kiesling, Hewitt, Lambeau and Reeves. If you have unlimited funds, these could be obtained today.
and without checking, I am sure the majority of the rest could be acquired as well. So, $ does figure into it to a degree for our personal 'list', but for a general list of the toughest, probably shouldn't come into play.
My uneducated top 5:
1. Hugh Ray 2. Charles Bidwill 3. Joe Carr 4. Tim Mara 5. Dan Reeves (full name autograph)
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
While I agree all are hard to come by I find it hard to rank them. All of these people at the top of list are either Coaches/GM's/Owners/Team Founders/League Officials. There have to be plenty of documents out there with their sigs not to mention cancelled checks. Now that doesnt mean that most were destroyed at some point after their deaths. But I am sure there are some still out there waiting to see the light of day.
The hardest of all are probably Henry, Pollard and Kiesling. Henry and Pollard were players while Kiesling was a Coach with not as much team say as the others on the list and might not have been given team check writing duties.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I forgot Wayne Millner, Joe Stydahar, and Cliff Battles....not toughies but certainly not plentiful.....they might round out my list.
Ken >>
Guys like Millner, Stydahar, Cliff Battles, Dutch Clark, Tuffy Leemans, Benny Friedman, Johnny McNally, Ernie Nevers, ect.. would be even tougher if it wasn't for the 1974/1975 Fleer Immortal Roll sets and the 1977 Touchdown set. It's unfortunate that a few of the HOFers died just prior to 1974, otherwise they would likely be easier to find.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
You have to wonder what happened to all those documents signed by team owners and administrators, as mentioned below - one sad indication is this program for sale on eBay - Item number: 220243465432
The auction description mentions a fire in the Bears office - can you imagine what was lost? I have a scan of the 1933 championship program on my website - the scan I was sent also showed evidence of a fire, although I tried to fix some of the damage digitally.
<< <i>A list like this fascinates me. I think it is because I would love to have a list like this of non-HOF'ers. A list that would almost be impossible to put together for a number of reasons. >>
Jim,
Just for fun, if you could have 10 Non-HOF autos, who would they be? I would love to have autos of Niles Kinnick, Knute Rockne, and the 4 Horsemen, but I am curious as to who would be your top choices.
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
They would certainly be in my top 10 list. But since you mentioned them already, i'll pick some others. Tomorrow, I will give you a new top 10 and probably a new one for all of July! There are just so many to choose from...but off the top of my head, here are a few that I would love to have in my collection.
1. Charles W. Follis 2. Kenny Washington 3. Duke Slater 4. Tony Latone 5. Bruce Smith (the original one ) 6. Potsy Clark 7. Chris Cagle 8. Al Bedner 9. Izzy Wienstock 10. Walter Camp
maybe we should make this a top 100....i'll keep going
11. Les Bingaman 12. Fred Gehrke 13. Chuck Drazenovich 14. Cecil Isbell 15. George Gulyanics 16. Bob Hoernschemeyer 17. Blanton Collier 18. Ed Sustersic 19. Luke Johnsos 20. Corl Zimmerman 21. Giff Zimmerman
ok, i'll stop...
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Hey Guys, I have exchanged a # of Emails with Rich Albersheim. He agreed with me that Carr is tougher than Hewitt or Kiesling, and should be #4. But, on the other hand, he has convinced me that Bidwell is # 2 and Tim Mara is # 3. He also thinks that Pete Henry ( #7 ) and Fritz Pollard (#8) should flip-flop. He said he has owned at least 20 Henry's and only 3 Pollard's. I believe him. BUT, Pete Henry has been a Hall of Famer for 45 years, in which time people have been buying/selling/collecting/searching for things he signed. How many people were ACTIVELY looking for a Fritz Pollard BEFORE 2005. I would be willing to bet, that the DAY Rich started looking for and buying every Pete Henry autograph he could find, if he started looking just as hard for Fritz Pollard autographs, I would be willing to wager that by July of 2008, he would have owned more Pollards than Henry's. I also have been meaning to ask him if not putting Steve Owen on was an accidental ommision, or if he really believes that Owen is not one of the Top 15.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Has anyone ever seen a "Pudge" Heffelfinger auto or have one in their collection? I have been searching on that one for a while with no luck. Actually, I don't expect that I will ever see one....but it's in my list.
Here is the only photo I have ever come across. It's not mine nor do I know if it is real, although I suspect it is....
and here is a 1940 Football Handbook that supposedly has Heffelfinger's autograph on the cover. I have not been able to find another copy of this magazine to see if it is indeed a signature or if it is the way the magazine was printed. Anyone know of other copies?
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
KHW had one in his store not too long ago. It was PSA/DNA index card. I'm pretty sure it was priced at $679. I think I saved a picture of it. I will post it if I still have it.
Collecting the following autographed sets: HOF RC Auto Set 1955 Topps Football AA 1950 Bowman Football 1951 Bowman Football 1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333 Please be sure to check out my auctions!
<< <i>They would certainly be in my top 10 list. But since you mentioned them already, i'll pick some others. Tomorrow, I will give you a new top 10 and probably a new one for all of July! There are just so many to choose from...but off the top of my head, here are a few that I would love to have in my collection.
1. Charles W. Follis 2. Kenny Washington 3. Duke Slater 4. Tony Latone 5. Bruce Smith (the original one ) 6. Potsy Clark 7. Chris Cagle 8. Al Bedner 9. Izzy Wienstock 10. Walter Camp
maybe we should make this a top 100....i'll keep going
11. Les Bingaman 12. Fred Gehrke 13. Chuck Drazenovich 14. Cecil Isbell 15. George Gulyanics 16. Bob Hoernschemeyer 17. Blanton Collier 18. Ed Sustersic 19. Luke Johnsos 20. Corl Zimmerman 21. Giff Zimmerman
ok, i'll stop... >>
Definately Duke Slater, plus (in no particular order):
1. Davey O'Brien 2. Nile Kinnick 3. Ernie Davis 4. Clint Frank 5. Piggy Barnes 6. Lavern Dilweg 7. George Washington Christensen 8. Al Blozis
Just a few off the top of my head.
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Being a graduate of Rutgers, one of the names that topped my list was Paul Robeson, but I have to say his autograph wasn't very hard to find or very expensive - which I find surprising given his place in American history.
One Rutgers autograph I’m happy to have is Bob “Nasty” Nash, the captain of the 1925 NY Giants – but there were other early Giants who graduated from Rutgers.
I’d especially like to find John Alexander Heinie Benkert
And then from the 1925 Pottsville Maroons is RU grad Walter French.
Not from Rutgers, but topping my list, would be members of the 1926 Frankford Yellow Jackets – I have my father and Chamberlin and Wier but I’d like to find
Huston Stockton Two Bits Homan
I have to stop listing these names, I think I’m breaking the 10th commandment: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors autograph collection.”
<< <i>Being a graduate of Rutgers, one of the names that topped my list was Paul Robeson, but I have to say his autograph wasn't very hard to find or very expensive - which I find surprising given his place in American history.
One Rutgers autograph I’m happy to have is Bob “Nasty” Nash, the captain of the 1925 NY Giants – but there were other early Giants who graduated from Rutgers.
I’d especially like to find John Alexander Heinie Benkert
And then from the 1925 Pottsville Maroons is RU grad Walter French.
Not from Rutgers, but topping my list, would be members of the 1926 Frankford Yellow Jackets – I have my father and Chamberlin and Wier but I’d like to find
Huston Stockton Two Bits Homan
I have to stop listing these names, I think I’m breaking the 10th commandment: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors autograph collection.” >>
The wife is fair game but not the autograph collection!!
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Reese - Thanks for the tip. I wonder if Kirk will turn up another one. $700 seems like it might be reasonable for that sig, but I probably would not have wanted to spend that much at this point on it. I still need too many of the tougher HOFers to drop cash on side projects:}.
Greg - Thanks for the scan....that photo is awesome! Al Blozis and Lavern Dilweg are two of my numerous saved E-bay searches:}.
Regarding a Walter Camp autograph ....does anyone know what they would go for? I know someone who has one. It is a 3x5 sized paper and wants 3k. Is that high?
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
<< <i>PS I was also told by Rich A. that he had heard that PSA/DNA had paid " something like $10,000.00" for the one that they have. That was quite a few years ago. I have to believe it would go for quite a bit more than that now, if another authentic one surfaced. But then again, I did guess that a certain 1941 New York Giant team sheet with 6 autographs on it would go for about 2,500.00 more than it did go for, so....... what do I know? Rocke >>
Rocke,
Thanks for the info. Do you have anything signed by Fritz Pollard? He seems to be another extremely difficult autograph to find even though he died only 22 years ago. By the way, have you ever seen a Duke Slater autograph? I've read that he may eventually be a HOF finalist and I've been trying to find his autograph....but its eems to be extremely difficult to find.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Greg, Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner. I guess I kind of missed it, then we were all going off on the "toughest" list. Including the new class, there are now 247 HoFers. I do NOT have autographs of 10 of them, and Fritz Pollard is one of the 10 that I do NOT have as of yet. He is a tough one, as you have seen, I have him rated as the 8th toughest to get, and Rich Albersheim has him rated at # 7. I do know where I will get mine. I don't want to go into a lot of details, (until I get the autograph at least), but I have gotten to know a former NFL player that met Fritz Pollard back in the early '80's, got an autograph from him on a 3x5 card allthough it IS personalized, but he has told me that when he finds it, (from what I have gathered, he has a LOT of stuff, but it is pretty (extremely?) disorganized. He told me that he will sell it to me for a reasonable amount of money that we have already agreed upon. Now I just need him to find it, but I hate to press him very much. The last thing I need is to pi*s him off, and then have him tell me to forget it. As far as Duke Slater, I have only ever seen 2. The 2nd was the one that Mr. Moran posted a scan of. The only other one I have seen is my friend Rod's. If Slater gets elected, he will become one of the top 5 or 6 toughest. I am sure there are some out there, but most of them are by people who don't realize what they have. Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I know its off the topic of football auto's. , but if any one is interested, I sold my Wilt Chamberlain autographed jersey Sunday night on Ebay for $4,450.00 Auction Item # 120278310598 It's a SUPER nice item, BUT, I neede the $$$ to keep working to get some of the 10 that I need. Oh Well........ Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Regarding a Walter Camp autograph ....does anyone know what they would go for? I know someone who has one. It is a 3x5 sized paper and wants 3k. Is that high?
<< <i>well greg, did you get the winners list via email??
what do you think about the winner of best auto'd set?? >>
Jay,
I'm happy for Neil...he's a great guy. It's too bad that the NFL HOF auto set continues to be overlooked. What's even crazier is how popular the NFL HOF auto set is compared to baseball, basketball or Hockey. The highest rated baseball HOF auto set is 30% complete and basketball HOF auto set is 70% complete. I don't think many people realize how incredibly tough it is to attain 80%+. It's taken me a long time and a lot of money (same with you, Frank and Reese) and the tougher cards are nearly impossible to find.
Oh well - maybe you'll win the crown next year
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Comments
Thanks again,
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Marshall Goldberg
I couldn't find another example to look at for Sinkwich. Does anyone have one?
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
and you can go to my friends' web site to see a few other examples:
Mel's Autographs
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Thats another great site to use for references.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Here is my auto'd Sinkwich (which I didn't buy from CJ). The auto is very close; however the F is definately different. I'm pretty sure the auto is good. On a separate note, the Goldberg looked a bit odd at first glance. I'll compare it against mine and let you know. Whatever happened w/ the Bruce Smith auto? Did it pass the quick opinion?
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
What's intersting is how different the S on your index card is compared to mine and Reese's....
Greg </
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>PS
I was also told by Rich A. that he had heard that PSA/DNA had paid " something like $10,000.00" for the one that they have. That was quite a few years ago. I have to believe it would go for quite a bit more than that now, if another authentic one surfaced. But then again, I did guess that a certain 1941 New York Giant team sheet with 6 autographs on it would go for about 2,500.00 more than it did go for, so....... what do I know?
Rocke >>
Rocke,
Thanks for the info. Do you have anything signed by Fritz Pollard? He seems to be another extremely difficult autograph to find even though he died only 22 years ago. By the way, have you ever seen a Duke Slater autograph? I've read that he may eventually be a HOF finalist and I've been trying to find his autograph....but its eems to be extremely difficult to find.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Still waiting to hear back from CJ on the Bruce Smith. I think it's good, I just want to make sure PSA thinks the same.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
1. I want it
2. I will never have it
3. I still want it
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
I replied to your PM but I don't think you have your PM set to accept messages? Did you get my reply? You can just email me at oldestlivingnfl@aol.com
jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Does anyone subscribe to the 'Gridiron Greats' magazine? I understand it is a great magazine for us football autograph/memorabilia collectors. I was thinking of getting a yr. sub. but wondered what people thought about it.
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
Frank
Jim - Gridiron Greats is a really great source of information and prints a good number of autograph exemplars for comparison. About six months ago they sent me a free copy for trial and I liked the content. That said, I did find a ton of grammatical and spelling errors across the magazine. In some cases, there were 20+ mistakes in one article. It left me with the impression that the magazine was not highly professional. Not a big thing, but if you are an anal type it can be distracting:}. I think the subscription was $7.50/copy - 4 issues per year for $29.95.
Ken
1. Hugh Shorty Ray
2. Charles W. Bidwill Sr.
3. Tim Mara
4. Bill Hewitt
5. Walt Kiesling
6. Joe Carr
7. Fritz Pollard
8. Len Ford
9. Dan Reeves
10. George Preston Marshall
11. Curley Lambeau
12. Fats Henry
13. Guy Chamberlin
14. Turk Edwards
15. Henry Jordan
What do you guys think? I think Carr is tougher Kiesling and Hewitt. I also think Ford is easier to find than Lambeau and George Preston Marshall. Any thoughts?
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
I agree with basically everything you said. Rich asked people to respond with their top 15 lists, so I took him up on it. I agree with you that Carr is tougher than Kiesling and Hewitt. I agree that Ford os easier than Lambeau, but I think he is tougher than Marshall. What I TOTALLY DISAGREE with though, is, how does he NOT have Steve Owen in the top 15. The list I sent him, that I put together with my friend Rod W. who now only needs Hugh Ray is, in order
1) Hugh Ray
2) Tim Mara
3) Charles Bidwell
4) Joe Carr
5) Bill Hewitt
6) Walt Kiesling
7) Pete Henry
8) Fritz Pollard
9) Earl (Curly) Lambeau
10) Dan Reeves
11) Steve Owen
12) Len Ford
13) George P. Marshall
14) Guy Chamberlin
15) Henry Jordan
Reese, did you reply to Rich A.?
Rocke Sweaney
No I didn't reply. You are completely right! I can't believe Owen is not on that list! He is very tough. You have them ranked correctly IMO.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
<< <i>Can we expand this list a bit? How about the next toughest 15? Any ideas? >>
Jim,
When Rod and I put our list together, we actually did the top 24, so I will give what I have, for the next 9 anyway.
16) John (Paddy) Driscoll
17) Jim Finks
18) John (Blood) McNally
19) Arnie Herber
20) Albert (Turk) Edwards
21) Joe Guyon
22) Benny Friedman
23) Earle (Greasy) Neale
24) Jim Thorpe
Obviously, when we came up with our "toughest two dozen" we did it with no regard to price, as Thorpe, PRICE-WISE, would probably be in the top 7 or 8, though he isn't that tough to find.
I just did the Top 15 the first time, because that was what Rich A. did.
Anyone have any thoughts on my next nine, or want to continue,as Jim asked for the next six. Also, My list is just to find a QUALITY, AUTHENTIC, autograph, on ANY medium, ( Check, document, 3x5 card,etc. I am sure the list would look VERY differentif it was limited to Gum Cards.
Rocke
I would put Ernie Nevers and Jim Conzelman at the end of that list somewhere (#25 and #26?). I have found Driscoll and Finks to be much easier than Link Lyman or Blood McNally....but now I am just nitpicking:}. Well done on the lists.
Ken
I forgot Wayne Millner, Joe Stydahar, and Cliff Battles....not toughies but certainly not plentiful.....they might round out my list.
Ken
I have never been into collecting the difficult HOF'ers because they are just too expensive. I would much rather have some no named guy who played in the 20's. Now, that being said, when I win the lottery tonight, (5, 7, 23, 45, 50) haha, I will be all about the HOF'ers.
It has been said and I agree that making a list like this should not be all about $. But it should, after the first 4 or 5 come into account to a degree.
That is why, I guess, everyone has Hugh Ray at the #1 spot. No amount of money can buy something that is not available. The question is: If you didn't care about price, who is the toughtest HOF football autograph to acquire? It might be better to list perhaps the top 5 like that and then group them according to the amount known (or percieved known) of each guy with monetary considerations.
I know of people/dealers selling the following in the top 10;
Fats Henry, Pollard, Kiesling, Hewitt, Lambeau and Reeves. If you have unlimited funds, these could be obtained today.
and without checking, I am sure the majority of the rest could be acquired as well. So, $ does figure into it to a degree for our personal 'list', but for a general list of the toughest, probably shouldn't come into play.
My uneducated top 5:
1. Hugh Ray
2. Charles Bidwill
3. Joe Carr
4. Tim Mara
5. Dan Reeves (full name autograph)
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
The hardest of all are probably Henry, Pollard and Kiesling. Henry and Pollard were players while Kiesling was a Coach with not as much team say as the others on the list and might not have been given team check writing duties.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Hey again,
I forgot Wayne Millner, Joe Stydahar, and Cliff Battles....not toughies but certainly not plentiful.....they might round out my list.
Ken >>
Guys like Millner, Stydahar, Cliff Battles, Dutch Clark, Tuffy Leemans, Benny Friedman, Johnny McNally, Ernie Nevers, ect.. would be even tougher if it wasn't for the 1974/1975 Fleer Immortal Roll sets and the 1977 Touchdown set. It's unfortunate that a few of the HOFers died just prior to 1974, otherwise they would likely be easier to find.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
The auction description mentions a fire in the Bears office - can you imagine what was lost? I have a scan of the 1933 championship program on my website - the scan I was sent also showed evidence of a fire, although I tried to fix some of the damage digitally.
<< <i>A list like this fascinates me. I think it is because I would love to have a list like this of non-HOF'ers. A list that would almost be impossible to put together for a number of reasons. >>
Jim,
Just for fun, if you could have 10 Non-HOF autos, who would they be? I would love to have autos of Niles Kinnick, Knute Rockne, and the 4 Horsemen, but I am curious as to who would be your top choices.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
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Todd
1. Charles W. Follis
2. Kenny Washington
3. Duke Slater
4. Tony Latone
5. Bruce Smith (the original one
6. Potsy Clark
7. Chris Cagle
8. Al Bedner
9. Izzy Wienstock
10. Walter Camp
maybe we should make this a top 100....i'll keep going
11. Les Bingaman
12. Fred Gehrke
13. Chuck Drazenovich
14. Cecil Isbell
15. George Gulyanics
16. Bob Hoernschemeyer
17. Blanton Collier
18. Ed Sustersic
19. Luke Johnsos
20. Corl Zimmerman
21. Giff Zimmerman
ok, i'll stop...
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
I have exchanged a # of Emails with Rich Albersheim. He agreed with me that Carr is tougher than Hewitt or Kiesling, and should be #4. But, on the other hand, he has convinced me that Bidwell is # 2 and Tim Mara is # 3. He also thinks that Pete Henry ( #7 ) and Fritz Pollard (#8) should flip-flop. He said he has owned at least 20 Henry's and only 3 Pollard's. I believe him. BUT, Pete Henry has been a Hall of Famer for 45 years, in which time people have been buying/selling/collecting/searching for things he signed. How many people were ACTIVELY looking for a Fritz Pollard BEFORE 2005. I would be willing to bet, that the DAY Rich started looking for and buying every Pete Henry autograph he could find, if he started looking just as hard for Fritz Pollard autographs, I would be willing to wager that by July of 2008, he would have owned more Pollards than Henry's. I also have been meaning to ask him if not putting Steve Owen on was an accidental ommision, or if he really believes that Owen is not one of the Top 15.
Has anyone ever seen a "Pudge" Heffelfinger auto or have one in their collection? I have been searching on that one for a while with no luck. Actually, I don't expect that I will ever see one....but it's in my list.
Ken
and here is a 1940 Football Handbook that supposedly has Heffelfinger's autograph on the cover. I have not been able to find another copy of this magazine to see if it is indeed a signature or if it is the way the magazine was printed. Anyone know of other copies?
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
KHW had one in his store not too long ago. It was PSA/DNA index card. I'm pretty sure it was priced at $679. I think I saved a picture of it. I will post it if I still have it.
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
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<< <i>They would certainly be in my top 10 list. But since you mentioned them already, i'll pick some others. Tomorrow, I will give you a new top 10 and probably a new one for all of July! There are just so many to choose from...but off the top of my head, here are a few that I would love to have in my collection.
1. Charles W. Follis
2. Kenny Washington
3. Duke Slater
4. Tony Latone
5. Bruce Smith (the original one
6. Potsy Clark
7. Chris Cagle
8. Al Bedner
9. Izzy Wienstock
10. Walter Camp
maybe we should make this a top 100....i'll keep going
11. Les Bingaman
12. Fred Gehrke
13. Chuck Drazenovich
14. Cecil Isbell
15. George Gulyanics
16. Bob Hoernschemeyer
17. Blanton Collier
18. Ed Sustersic
19. Luke Johnsos
20. Corl Zimmerman
21. Giff Zimmerman
ok, i'll stop... >>
Definately Duke Slater, plus (in no particular order):
1. Davey O'Brien
2. Nile Kinnick
3. Ernie Davis
4. Clint Frank
5. Piggy Barnes
6. Lavern Dilweg
7. George Washington Christensen
8. Al Blozis
Just a few off the top of my head.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
One Rutgers autograph I’m happy to have is Bob “Nasty” Nash, the captain of the 1925 NY Giants – but there were other early Giants who graduated from Rutgers.
I’d especially like to find
John Alexander
Heinie Benkert
And then from the 1925 Pottsville Maroons is RU grad Walter French.
Not from Rutgers, but topping my list, would be members of the 1926 Frankford Yellow Jackets – I have my father and Chamberlin and Wier but I’d like to find
Huston Stockton
Two Bits Homan
I have to stop listing these names, I think I’m breaking the 10th commandment: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors autograph collection.”
<< <i>Being a graduate of Rutgers, one of the names that topped my list was Paul Robeson, but I have to say his autograph wasn't very hard to find or very expensive - which I find surprising given his place in American history.
One Rutgers autograph I’m happy to have is Bob “Nasty” Nash, the captain of the 1925 NY Giants – but there were other early Giants who graduated from Rutgers.
I’d especially like to find
John Alexander
Heinie Benkert
And then from the 1925 Pottsville Maroons is RU grad Walter French.
Not from Rutgers, but topping my list, would be members of the 1926 Frankford Yellow Jackets – I have my father and Chamberlin and Wier but I’d like to find
Huston Stockton
Two Bits Homan
I have to stop listing these names, I think I’m breaking the 10th commandment: “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors autograph collection.” >>
The wife is fair game but not the autograph collection!!
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Greg - Thanks for the scan....that photo is awesome! Al Blozis and Lavern Dilweg are two of my numerous saved E-bay searches:}.
Ken
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Regarding a Walter Camp autograph ....does anyone know what they would go for? I know someone who has one. It is a 3x5 sized paper and wants 3k. Is that high?
Jim
Currency Wants: Any note with serial number 00000731
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
<< <i>PS
I was also told by Rich A. that he had heard that PSA/DNA had paid " something like $10,000.00" for the one that they have. That was quite a few years ago. I have to believe it would go for quite a bit more than that now, if another authentic one surfaced. But then again, I did guess that a certain 1941 New York Giant team sheet with 6 autographs on it would go for about 2,500.00 more than it did go for, so....... what do I know?
Rocke >>
Rocke,
Thanks for the info. Do you have anything signed by Fritz Pollard? He seems to be another extremely difficult autograph to find even though he died only 22 years ago. By the way, have you ever seen a Duke Slater autograph? I've read that he may eventually be a HOF finalist and I've been trying to find his autograph....but its eems to be extremely difficult to find.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Greg,
Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner. I guess I kind of missed it, then we were all going off on the "toughest" list. Including the new class, there are now 247 HoFers. I do NOT have autographs of 10 of them, and Fritz Pollard is one of the 10 that I do NOT have as of yet. He is a tough one, as you have seen, I have him rated as the 8th toughest to get, and Rich Albersheim has him rated at # 7. I do know where I will get mine. I don't want to go into a lot of details, (until I get the autograph at least), but I have gotten to know a former NFL player that met Fritz Pollard back in the early '80's, got an autograph from him on a 3x5 card allthough it IS personalized, but he has told me that when he finds it, (from what I have gathered, he has a LOT of stuff, but it is pretty (extremely?) disorganized. He told me that he will sell it to me for a reasonable amount of money that we have already agreed upon. Now I just need him to find it, but I hate to press him very much. The last thing I need is to pi*s him off, and then have him tell me to forget it.
As far as Duke Slater, I have only ever seen 2. The 2nd was the one that Mr. Moran posted a scan of. The only other one I have seen is my friend Rod's. If Slater gets elected, he will become one of the top 5 or 6 toughest. I am sure there are some out there, but most of them are by people who don't realize what they have.
Rocke
Rocke
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
<< <i>Nice Blozis Mike!
Regarding a Walter Camp autograph ....does anyone know what they would go for? I know someone who has one. It is a 3x5 sized paper and wants 3k. Is that high?
Jim >>
Here is a book inscribed by Walter Camp for sale for $,1500 -
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetails?bi=255653130
what do you think about the winner of best auto'd set??
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>well greg, did you get the winners list via email??
what do you think about the winner of best auto'd set?? >>
Jay,
I'm happy for Neil...he's a great guy. It's too bad that the NFL HOF auto set continues to be overlooked. What's even crazier is how popular the NFL HOF auto set is compared to baseball, basketball or Hockey. The highest rated baseball HOF auto set is 30% complete and basketball HOF auto set is 70% complete. I don't think many people realize how incredibly tough it is to attain 80%+. It's taken me a long time and a lot of money (same with you, Frank and Reese) and the tougher cards are nearly impossible to find.
Oh well - maybe you'll win the crown next year
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg