That plus the fact it's nearly impossible to compare stats from players of different eras. You can't compare Len Dawson to Phil Simms. If you are comparing stats then it needs to be done with guys like Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, John Elway, etc - guys from the same era. Then you add in guys like Joe Theisman, Boomer Esiason, and Bernie Kosar. I put Phil Sims in that class.....just below the HOF worthy guys.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Charlie Conerlly deserves to be in the HOF as I stated in my original post. I stated that to Welington Mara, and his eyebrows raised and he stated , I was right as if the thought never occurred to him. Raider guy ,you have the right to your opinion, but Phil belongs in the first group and not the second. Put Ken Stabler in the first group also. Phil is head and shoulders above Boomer and Kosar!
What if do not count, but what if the Giants had drafted Montana in 80 , as I suggested to George Young and Bill Walsh had drafted Simms in 1981? Earnest Gray instead of Rice? I'm just saying!
<< <i>one problem for Phil is that the giants won a SB with his backup. >>
But they were 10-0 when Phil went down! And if they won with Hostetler then more than likely they would have won with Simms, perhaps by a bigger margin. We'll never know. Phil Simms was Jim Kelly-tough. And if he had receivers like Reed and Lofton, his stats would have been better. Craig you are dead on---Parcells blew it with Brunner. Handley blew it with Hostetler, and George Young blew it with the immortal Dave Brown. And yes his stats are very similar to Dawson----and superior to Namath. Granted Wellington Mara was biased toward Phil being inducted. But how can you disagree with that Lambeau Legend Blood Bank Bill Heinen? Hey Nate, which dealer had the Jimmy Patton? I just picked up a signed album page but up to that point I was looking for a 3 x 5.
Craig! Easy on Rocke---He's been subjected to Browns football for WAY too long. And of course immortal Browns QBs-----Couch,McCoy,Weeden,Quinn ad infinitum......
I think I'm too young to have a dog in this fight. Haha.
I have thought about picking one up...just in case that day comes, but can't say that I lean either way. I usually pick up a lot of fringe players because I don't have the knowledge most of you guys have, sadly. I think I need to start over and re-read the whole thread. Maybe if I get a little free time at work (yeah right), then I can get started and start picking up names that I should be on the lookout for.
On a side note...and I know this will make Rocke cringe...
I am going to start at Nationals, getting Steelers HOFers and Legends to sign a full sized helmet. Starting with Dawson, Green, Lambert and Ham.
Well I think that QB's positions for the next couple of years are already taken by Warner and Favre. Simms and Connerly will have to wait and Connerly might be inducted sometime by the senior comitee. (After all he has been a finalist 7 times)
"I am going to start at Nationals, getting Steelers HOFers and Legends to sign a full sized helmet. Starting with Dawson, Green, Lambert and Ham." J.T. Just don't ask mean Joe to sign anything other then his name and hof or else you'll get yelled at!
<< <i>"I am going to start at Nationals, getting Steelers HOFers and Legends to sign a full sized helmet. Starting with Dawson, Green, Lambert and Ham." J.T. Just don't ask mean Joe to sign anything other then his name and hof or else you'll get yelled at! >>
I am just wanting to get the HOF inscription for all of them. Wish I had the extra funds to get Harris too, but he will have to wait. I was glad I was able to get a discount on my helmet too.
I saw he won't sign anything Coke and won't write Mean Joe. He will do inscriptions for eztra of course, but at least HOF is included. The only one I think I have to pay extra for the HOF inscription is Ham oddly enough.
I was reading up that he usually will not sign a full sized helmet, so I best get him now while I can.
More thoughts on Phil Simms. Would Montana, who faced 3 tomato cans twice a year (Rams,Saints,Falcons) and had the greatest receiver of all time (Rice) or Fouts with Joiner,Winslow, Jefferson in sunny San Diego or Marino who pitched to Duper/Clayton in sunny Florida put up the same numbers playing in the cold weather, run oriented NFC east with Landry's Cowboys, Reggie White's Eagles or Gibbs' Redskins? Put any of these guys on the Giants and put Simms on their teams. Sure they would have done great, but with less gaudy numbers. Remember how well Fouts did in the playoffs in Cincinnati with minus 12? During the Giants run to Super Bowl 25 they defeated Marino and Montana. Whether he makes the HOF or not, I just want to see Simms get some respect. Right, Craig?
I could not agree more! Two questions, seperate and distinct, will Phil get in the HOF anytime soon, no, does he belong is a different question and the answer is YES forr all the reasons you and I have articulated! I will appreciate what Hos did in SB 25 forever, after Getting his bell rung by Bruce! Phil wins Super Bowl 25. The strike in 87 killed the repeat, which the Giants would have been favored to do. Phil could well have won three Super Bowls! Make Montana a Giant and Simms a 49er and what would those lifetime stats have looked like???
One last what if, if George Young had taken the USFL dispersal draft seriously and drafted Reggie White and not I hate NY Zimmerman, Simms May have 4 SB rings! Making this question Moot!
Craig, I like your thinking! But if I recall, I think the Eagles had Reggie White's rights. OK Derrick, we made our points. But we will continue to dream....
Joe, Giants had the second pick, after Steve Young was picked bynTampa, the Giants chose Gary Zimmerman over Reggie White? Zimmerman wanted no part of NYC, a country boy and they traded him to the Vikings. The Eagles chose Reggie third. Imagine the Giants defense with LT and The minister of defense together. It could and should have happened!
Going to the 2014 National next Thursday in Cleveland. I want to get John Riggins on my Goal Line Art Gold Set. I have a Gold Card signed, but not the one matching my set. Is there any advantage to buy my autograph ticket early?
<< <i>Going to the 2014 National next Thursday in Cleveland. I want to get John Riggins on my Goal Line Art Gold Set. I have a Gold Card signed, but not the one matching my set. Is there any advantage to buy my autograph ticket early? >>
I think the only real advantage is that your number will be earlier. They call usually by 20 number increments. Only real advantage I see.
Hi Craig, I guess I forgot about how that USFL draft worked. I thought the NFL rights were held by the teams that drafted those players during the regular NFL draft. I remember Zimmerman didn't want to play in NY, but Young got 2 second rd picks, and I think one became Pepper Johnson. Need to research that. Reggie and LT together? Would have been illegal! Ironically, in that same draft, George Young took Eric Dorsey. Most of his #1s were busts. He did better in RDS 2-4
And I always have thought that George deserved to be in the Hall. Reading the thread about all of Young's screw-ups, from the two biggest Giant proponents on here, ( oops, two of the three, sorry, Mike ) maybe I should re-think whether George deserves election.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>And I always have thought that George deserved to be in the Hall. Reading the thread about all of Young's screw-ups, from the two biggest Giant proponents on here, ( oops, two of the three, sorry, Mike ) maybe I should re-think whether George deserves election.
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke,
Are you going up to the National on Thursday? Are you doing the Mall Show this weekend? I'm going to the National on Thursday, and I may stop and see you on Friday.
I am heading to the National show tomorrow. Going to grab some lunch on the way up (thinking Skyline chili). I should be up there around 1230-1 and will be at the VIP party and the preview.
I will probably be bringing my collection with me. Just hope I can knock off one more from my list maybe even by trading. Just 11 to go (if you include the two live ones.)
<< <i>And I always have thought that George deserved to be in the Hall. Reading the thread about all of Young's screw-ups, from the two biggest Giant proponents on here, ( oops, two of the three, sorry, Mike ) maybe I should re-think whether George deserves election.
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke,
Are you going up to the National on Thursday? Are you doing the Mall Show this weekend? I'm going to the National on Thursday, and I may stop and see you on Friday. >>
Hey Rich, Yes that is exactly my schedule. Only bad part is, due to something beyond my control, I probably won't get to the IX until about 12:30.
By the way, My good friend Rod WILL be set up at the National. I do NOT know his booth #, but will post it when I know what it is. And Ron Gordon will NOT be at this show.
Rocke
PS...Just heard from Rod. He is set up at Booth # 2242
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Too bad Ron won't be setting up at the National. One of the highlights of my trip to National in Baltimore 2 years ago was finally meeting Ron. He is a class individual who has some great hobby stories. I also found out that he and I both attend the same university, Indiana University of Pennsylvania. I hope everyone enjoys the show! Tim
Well, just got back home from The IX center. Not a lot to report. Was only there 3 - 1/2 hours. Turned some items into JSA. Talked with Rod for a while, only got to walk 1 - 1/2 aisles. Saw Les Wolfe. Talked with him for awhile. Had to wipe the drool off of his Bill Hewitt hand written letter. Spent a little time at Huggins & Scott booth. Then it was time to go. Will try to move a little faster tomorrow.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Have fun at the National! If anyone in attendance comes across a signed 48 Leaf Steve Van Buren or 48 Bowman Pete Pihos please let me know. You can text me at 630.460.7032 or e-mail me at montooth13 at yahoo. Thanks!
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I'm with Mark - I'd love to hear some stories from Cleveland and what pieces you were able to see. I know there's a lot of members here who made the trip.
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
The Giants entire franchise turned around when Rozelle told Wel and Timmy to get their act together and hire George Young! I would not have been in the Rose Bowl in 87 to see my Giants win the Super Bowl without his leadership. He belongs in the HOF! His drafts from round 2 and on! See Dave Young!
While we wait for National stories to roll in - I have a question. This isn't my index card but I was curious if anyone knew what collection these index cards originated from
Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
That is from the John Smith collection. Lew Lipset bought that collection several years ago, pulled one of each pro & college hofer (which he auctioned off a couple years ago) then sold the remaining hoard to John Burk, another dealer. Burk sold off most of the collection over the last decade. In fact, I went to the National in 2006 just to look through that collection.
It is now after 2:00 AM in the morning, I just had a five hour Pizza, pop, and beer party with people here from Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and North Carolina, plus my friend Rod. It has been a Long day, and a VEEEERRRRRYYYYY Long week. I will get into more details later, but, I did want to quickly mention something that I picked up at the National in Cleveland. As you probably remember, back in April I went to the CSA show in Chantilly, Va. My big pick-up at that show, was a 1950 Bowman card of Dick Barwegan, that was Beautifully signed in Blue ballpoint pen. That was the FIRST Barwegan signature I had seen in 27 years of collecting autographs. I was THRILLED to add his signature to my collection. But, although I know MANY of the people on this forum DO collect signed cards, personally, I would rather have a nice, clean signature on a 3 X 5 card, or an autograph album page. And, I figured when I found a Barwegan signature that I liked, I would buy it, and then put the Barwegan signed 1950 Bowman up for sale, so someone that would really want and appreciate it more than me, could own it.
Well, the wait will soon be over. I picked up a FABULOUS blue ballpoint pen autograph, on a autograph book page. The 1950 Bowman is presently at PSA/DNA being authenticated and slabbed, as part of the most recent group submission. When I get it back, I will be making it available. Depending on a couple of things, that might be right when I get it back from North Dakota, or, I may have this album page authenticated and slabbed, and THEN put the '50 Bowman for sale. If anyone is interested in the Bowman, let me know.
I am VERY anxious to get Rod the $$$ I owe him, so I can pay off the remaining balance I owe him for the Tim Mara signed letter.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Glad the party went well, Rocke! Sorry I couldn't make it. I actually left the show around 3 because I was dead tired and knew I wouldn't be able to stay long even if I did come, just because I was having trouble staying awake as it was. Would have been great to hang out with all of you from the forums, but I think next time, I'm not even going to try to do all 5 days. I am surprised I am still able to walk after all the walking I did there.
As for pick-ups, I am in the process of getting things uploaded to photobucket, so I will have scans very soon of everything I snatched up while I was there. I got at least one nice upgrade (as you know I like patch/autographs from packs), one multi-HOF/Future HOF piece that makes modern card collectors drool & I was able to knock off one piece to my collection. It's not the most beautiful piece, but yet, it has a great back story, plus a few extra signatures with it. I still need to get it authenticated/slabbed by PSA, but it does have a full COA from SGC.
And I'll show off a few other things that I got as well. It was a great time and very tiring, plus I got to meet Rod again and talk to him about a few various things and hope to hear from him soon. Didn't know you wouldn't be there Sunday, Rod, or else I would have stuck around longer on Saturday. Just figured you were busy talking to that one guy. lol.
Just wanted to let you know, Rod didn't show-up on Sunday, because he said he didn't need to. He said he had a phenomenal National, did VERY well selling what he had put out up through Saturday, so just packed it in, and stayed in Canton for HOF festivities on Sunday.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Alright, guys. I finally have most everything scanned/photographed, etc from the NSCC. It was definitely a good time and did see a few pieces I would have loved to have, but obviously a mix between high prices and/or lack of funds, I was only able to get a few things.
First, this one is for my future HOF PC. I'd say he already has a shot, but if he keeps playing, he will absolutely be a lock. I bought this from a guy on Blowout in raw form and got hand delivery on Wednesday. I dropped it off that day to Beckett and it came back a 9.5. Obviously with this thick of a card, it's rare (only the 4th to get this grade), so I will certainly keep this for that day his name is called. (A long way off though.)
Next, I decided to swap out some of my old redemptions through Panini. I gave up a couple of HOF autos that I already had, but was just wanting to upgrade. Figure if they are ever made, I will just buy them then. Well, needless to say, I got another for the Future HOF PC. I already had him, but this auto is a little nicer and it's only 2/5.
Next, I can officially say I have met a few HOFers. This was actually the first time I've ever been in autograph lines and I honestly enjoyed it. I did get a mini helmet signed by Joe D from the Bills, but forgot to upload a picture yet. Meanwhile, I got 4 Steeler HOFers and a legend. And I even got to put on Rocky's 4 SB rings!
This next one is just an upgrade piece. The auto is a lot cleaner, has nice patches and there are only 5. I sold a few pieces to the guy at a fair price, so he gave me a great deal on this one.
Next is something I won on e-bay while there. I had e-bay bucks to use up and didn't figure I would win this at the price I did. His card autographs usually go much higher even though it's a dual auto. And while Hirsch is a common cut, it would definitely not hurt the value in my opinion as he too is a HOFer. Not sure if these used to come with a seperate COA (my guess is yes), but I think the card stands alone very well.
Next I picked this piece up by trading away a lot of my extras. Most of them were very low end like Lem Barney, Larry Little, just smaller pieces. I did give up a couple of nicer pieces like Ernie Nevers, Troy Polamalu and Bob Hayes, but nothing that was out of this world. Obviously when trading up, you are going to lose on the value end, but there are only 10 of these out there and this is the first one I have ever seen in person. I likely still give up too much for it, but can't look back now. I slipped out a few pieces that I was not willing to give up for it, so overall, I am happy.
Last...and certainly not least. I am down to 10! I found this on the first day and after a little back and forth and thinking it over, I jumped on it. The guy did take a little off..and it's only SGC authenticated, but I will get it PSA slabbed soon enough. This is one that had eluded me for quite a while and though it's not his most beautiful auto, the paperwork and all the extras that are with it make it very unique. I hope to make get something a little nicer in the future, but for now, I can finally check him off the list.
It was nice seeing you again, Rocke and sorry I couldn't find anything you were hoping for, Derrick. Outside of those two letters, of course. Rod, was great talking with you and hope to hear from you soon. And no worries about not setting up Sunday. I don't blame you for not setting up at all. It was actually a rather slow day and everyone started packing up early. I spent most of the day around TriStar's autograph area waiting for my Steelers. Glad you did well though and hopefully I can even add to that total at some point!
Last...and certainly not least. I am down to 10! I found this on the first day and after a little back and forth and thinking it over, I jumped on it. The guy did take a little off..and it's only SGC authenticated, but I will get it PSA slabbed soon enough. This is one that had eluded me for quite a while and though it's not his most beautiful auto, the paperwork and all the extras that are with it make it very unique. I hope to make get something a little nicer in the future, but for now, I can finally check him off the list.
>>
That's great that you finally got your Wietelmann -
I also have a Wietelmann signed Thorpe FDC (minus the Thorpe) Wietelmann was a SS for the Boston Braves 1939 - 1947 but his connection to Thorpe was that he was the bat boy for the 1925 Zanesville Greys of the Eastern Ohio League; his dad was the manager and Jim Thorpe played RF for the team
Are you kidding me. I am absolutely STUNNED. Have you seen what that Joe Carr letter is going for right now in the H & S auction. Until the one sold about 3-4 months ago, that new member Kevin won for around 8,500.00 I don't ever remember a Carr selling for much over 4,000. With the Juice, someone is about to pay 4,000 MORE, than I have paid for my Mara and Bidwill COMBINED.
Did I say that I am STUNNED ??????
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Excuse me, $6,400.00 MORE than I paid for Mara and Bidwill COMBINED.
Stunned isn't strong enough. I think I am going into shock.
Does that mean the value of my signed Barwegan Bowman card is skyrocketing also ????? LOL
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
I didn't look closely at that until your post Rocke - thanks for pointing it out. It's a great item - NFL letterhead, mention of Grange and Nagurski - nice autograph - I'll bet whoever bought it already has a Carr autograph and this was an upgrade - two people with deep pockets clearly chased this one.
<< <i>Are you kidding me. I am absolutely STUNNED. Have you seen what that Joe Carr letter is going for right now in the H & S auction. Until the one sold about 3-4 months ago, that new member Kevin won for around 8,500.00 I don't ever remember a Carr selling for much over 4,000. With the Juice, someone is about to pay 4,000 MORE, than I have paid for my Mara and Bidwill COMBINED.
Did I say that I am STUNNED ?????? >>
Never thought I'd feel like I got a bargain on my Carr. Hate to think what it'd cost me if a Mara or Bidwell ever turn up. I may just wind up 3 short of a full HOFer collection.
Looking for Bidwell, Mara and Ray to complete my FBHOF collection
<< <i>Anyone find anything interesting at the National? I haven't gone since 2006 in Anaheim. Curious if those who went found it worthwhile? >>
Well.... let me give my experience at this years National. Because of circumstances beyond my control, and also being Hall of Fame weekend, I was only able to be at the IX Center from 4:30 - 8:00 on Wednesday, and from 12:30 - 6:00 on Thursday. So, I was inside the show for a total of nine hours. I spent part of the time talking with Rod at his booth, and was joined at various times by Joe Mancino ( JMDVM ) J.T. (wju2004) and Rich (BigRed7). Stopped by the Heritage Auction Booth to say hello to friends Tony Giese and Chris Nerat. Stopped by the Huggins & Scott booth to say hello to Bill Huggins and because I knew Bill would be nice enough to allow me to get my picture holding Jim Browns rookie contract, and the Joe Carr letter, which just sold for 25,000 and 17,000 respectively. Also, I just recently bought a Jim Thorpe autograph from a local elderly lady, who got the autograph in person when Jim gave a speech at a local High School in 1952. She also had an autograph book which she wanted me to sell for her. ( Book didn't really have anyone great , a Nelson Eddy, Harry Belafonte, mostly people I never heard of ) I got 200.00 for it, which I gave her. Spent some time at Les Wolfe's booth. He has some nice items, but mostly just talked with him. A dealer from New Jersey, who I don't remember his name sold me three VERY nice autographs, Mel Hein, Clarke Hinkle, and Ernie Nevers, for 170.00 All three are perfect ballpoint pen, right in the middle of an unlined 3 x 5 card. But my two nicer pick-ups were a page from an autograph book, that had a perfect ( for me ) ballpoint pen Dick Barwegan autograph, which is why when it comes back from the latest group submission from Derrick, I will be selling the 1950 Bowman ballpoint pen signed by Barwegan that Derrick posted for me on page 255 of this thread on April 7th. I also picked up a FANTASTIC John "Blood" McNally ballpoint pen autograph. It is on a 3 x 5 postcard, and while it is personalized, it has fantastic content in which Blood references Bart Starr and Alabama. Has a FANTASTIC signature. Unfortunately, I also WASTED about three hours, between two booths, JSA ( not their fault ) and JSA's new "slabbing" partner Beckett ( entirely their fault). Would you believe that Beckett had run out of 3 x 5 slabs by early Thursday and so after a lot of back and forth, and me getting cell phone calls on two different occasions to return to see their rep. at the JSA booth, I finally just told him to give me my money and two autographs ( Turk Edwards and Dan Reeves ) that I wanted to have slabbed and the autographs graded, ( I was told by the Beckett Rep, off the record, that the Edwards would grade AT LEAST an "8" and the Reeves would grade AT LEAST a "9". How do you run out of 3 X 5 slabs Thursday afternoon. ????? However, I did get a very high end autograph authenticated and slabbed for a friend, and the aforementioned Jim Thorpe got slabbed as both were regular gum card sized. So, as of now I have a slabbed Jim Thorpe pencil autograph, BEAUTIFUL ballpoint pen autographs of Turk Edwards and Dan Reeves and John "Blood" McNally, a 1950 ballpoint pen card of Dick Barwegan, and I am awaiting a FULL LOA for a signed 8 X 10 Black & White photo rookie era signed picture from Thurman Munson. (Another recent pick-up) That are all for sale. VERY nice, but it is a fairly light signature.
All I all... a good, but not great National for me.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
Well, this is pretty funny. Remember that envelope that was on Ebay a few months ago, that was signed in pencil by Halas, Curly Lambeau, Art Rooney, the seller didn't even know that George Preston Marshall was on it. I bid around 1,500.00 on it, there was a lot of debate whether it was authentic. I think one or two people even did the PSA quick opinion, and the Einsteins at PSA said "Likely NOT authentic". I said how easy it would be for someone at PSA to say its NOT authentic, thus scaring off some potential bidders, then someone at PSA bids on, wins, and then re-sells the item.
Well, check out Ebay item # 321480244676 that is for sale for 8,000.00, comes with a FULL LOA from PSA/DNA and the owner is in Southern California.
Things that make you go HMMMMMM.
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Well, this is pretty funny. Remember that envelope that was on Ebay a few months ago, that was signed in pencil by Halas, George P. Marshall, Art Rooney, the seller didn't even know that George Preston Marshall was on it. I bid around 1,500.00 on it, there was a lot of debate whether it was authentic. I think one or two people even did the PSA quick opinion, and the Einsteins at PSA said "Likely NOT authentic". I said how easy it would be for someone at PSA to say its NOT authentic, thus scaring off some potential bidders, then someone at PSA bids on, wins, and then re-sells the item.
Well, check out Ebay item # 321480244676 that is for sale for 8,000.00, comes with a FULL LOA from PSA/DNA and the owner is in Southern California.
Things that make you go HMMMMMM. >>
Yup, this is why I quit using quick opinion. There was some things that did make me iffy about it anyhow and I was going to go after it as well, but chose not to after the quick opinion came back bad.
The owner of the envelope is over on blowout and I was talking to him and gave him my opinion of the value, but he strongly disagreed, but has significantly dropped his asking price on it as he started it out at $15000. (Far above what I told him where the value was, of course.)
Of course, the only one that interests me on there is Lambeau, but it's still a pretty nice piece overall.
Comments
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
What if do not count, but what if the Giants had drafted Montana in 80 , as I suggested to George Young and Bill Walsh had drafted Simms in 1981? Earnest Gray instead of Rice? I'm just saying!
Craig
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
<< <i>one problem for Phil is that the giants won a SB with his backup. >>
But they were 10-0 when Phil went down! And if they won with Hostetler then more than likely they would have won with Simms, perhaps by a bigger margin. We'll never know. Phil Simms was Jim Kelly-tough. And if he had receivers like Reed and Lofton, his stats would have been better. Craig you are dead on---Parcells blew it with Brunner. Handley blew it with Hostetler, and George Young blew it with the immortal Dave Brown. And yes his stats are very similar to Dawson----and superior to Namath. Granted Wellington Mara was biased toward Phil being inducted. But how can you disagree with that Lambeau Legend Blood Bank Bill Heinen? Hey Nate, which dealer had the Jimmy Patton? I just picked up a signed album page but up to that point I was looking for a 3 x 5.
<< <i>Does not have to be better than Montana , Elway, and Marino , and he was not, to qualify for the HOF and he should! >>
EXACTLY!
<< <i>In my humble opinion there is another Giants QB that should be be inducted first: Charlie Connerly. >>
I have to disagree on that one. Conerly was good but compare him to the QBs of his era --Layne,Graham, Van Brocklin---and I think he comes up short.
<< <i> Sorry Rocke!
See Len Dawson stats.
Craig >>
<< <i>
<< <i> Sorry Rocke!
See Len Dawson stats.
Craig >>
>>
Craig! Easy on Rocke---He's been subjected to Browns football for WAY too long. And of course immortal Browns QBs-----Couch,McCoy,Weeden,Quinn ad infinitum......
I have thought about picking one up...just in case that day comes, but can't say that I lean either way. I usually pick up a lot of fringe players because I don't have the knowledge most of you guys have, sadly. I think I need to start over and re-read the whole thread. Maybe if I get a little free time at work (yeah right), then I can get started and start picking up names that I should be on the lookout for.
On a side note...and I know this will make Rocke cringe...
I am going to start at Nationals, getting Steelers HOFers and Legends to sign a full sized helmet. Starting with Dawson, Green, Lambert and Ham.
Simms and Connerly will have to wait and Connerly might be inducted sometime by the senior comitee. (After all he has been a finalist 7 times)
<< <i>"I am going to start at Nationals, getting Steelers HOFers and Legends to sign a full sized helmet. Starting with Dawson, Green, Lambert and Ham." J.T. Just don't ask mean Joe to sign anything other then his name and hof or else you'll get yelled at! >>
I am just wanting to get the HOF inscription for all of them. Wish I had the extra funds to get Harris too, but he will have to wait. I was glad I was able to get a discount on my helmet too.
I saw he won't sign anything Coke and won't write Mean Joe. He will do inscriptions for eztra of course, but at least HOF is included. The only one I think I have to pay extra for the HOF inscription is Ham oddly enough.
I was reading up that he usually will not sign a full sized helmet, so I best get him now while I can.
J. T.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
One last what if, if George Young had taken the USFL dispersal draft seriously and drafted Reggie White and not I hate NY Zimmerman, Simms May have 4 SB rings! Making this question Moot!
Craig
Giants had the second pick, after Steve Young was picked bynTampa, the Giants chose Gary Zimmerman over Reggie White? Zimmerman wanted no part of NYC, a country boy and they traded him to the Vikings. The Eagles chose Reggie third. Imagine the Giants defense with LT and The minister of defense together. It could and should have happened!
Craig
<< <i>Going to the 2014 National next Thursday in Cleveland. I want to get John Riggins on my Goal Line Art Gold Set. I have a Gold Card signed, but not the one matching my set. Is there any advantage to buy my autograph ticket early? >>
I think the only real advantage is that your number will be earlier. They call usually by 20 number increments. Only real advantage I see.
Rocke
<< <i>And I always have thought that George deserved to be in the Hall. Reading the thread about all of Young's screw-ups, from the two biggest Giant proponents on here, ( oops, two of the three, sorry, Mike ) maybe I should re-think whether George deserves election.
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke,
Are you going up to the National on Thursday? Are you doing the Mall Show this weekend? I'm going to the National on Thursday, and I may stop and see you on Friday.
I will probably be bringing my collection with me. Just hope I can knock off one more from my list maybe even by trading. Just 11 to go (if you include the two live ones.)
<< <i>
<< <i>And I always have thought that George deserved to be in the Hall. Reading the thread about all of Young's screw-ups, from the two biggest Giant proponents on here, ( oops, two of the three, sorry, Mike ) maybe I should re-think whether George deserves election.
Rocke >>
Hey Rocke,
Are you going up to the National on Thursday? Are you doing the Mall Show this weekend? I'm going to the National on Thursday, and I may stop and see you on Friday. >>
Hey Rich, Yes that is exactly my schedule. Only bad part is, due to something beyond my control, I probably won't get to the IX until about 12:30.
By the way, My good friend Rod WILL be set up at the National. I do NOT know his booth #, but will post it when I know what it is. And Ron Gordon will NOT be at this show.
Rocke
PS...Just heard from Rod. He is set up at Booth # 2242
Rocke
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
The Giants entire franchise turned around when Rozelle told Wel and Timmy to get their act together and hire George Young! I would not have been in the Rose Bowl in 87 to see my Giants win the Super Bowl without his leadership. He belongs in the HOF! His drafts from round 2 and on!
See Dave Young!
Craig
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Well, the wait will soon be over. I picked up a FABULOUS blue ballpoint pen autograph, on a autograph book page. The 1950 Bowman is presently at PSA/DNA being authenticated and slabbed, as part of the most recent group submission. When I get it back, I will be making it available. Depending on a couple of things, that might be right when I get it back from North Dakota, or, I may have this album page authenticated and slabbed, and THEN put the '50 Bowman for sale. If anyone is interested in the Bowman, let me know.
I am VERY anxious to get Rod the $$$ I owe him, so I can pay off the remaining balance I owe him for the Tim Mara signed letter.
Rocke
As for pick-ups, I am in the process of getting things uploaded to photobucket, so I will have scans very soon of everything I snatched up while I was there. I got at least one nice upgrade (as you know I like patch/autographs from packs), one multi-HOF/Future HOF piece that makes modern card collectors drool & I was able to knock off one piece to my collection. It's not the most beautiful piece, but yet, it has a great back story, plus a few extra signatures with it. I still need to get it authenticated/slabbed by PSA, but it does have a full COA from SGC.
And I'll show off a few other things that I got as well. It was a great time and very tiring, plus I got to meet Rod again and talk to him about a few various things and hope to hear from him soon. Didn't know you wouldn't be there Sunday, Rod, or else I would have stuck around longer on Saturday. Just figured you were busy talking to that one guy. lol.
Anyhow, I will post all my goodies soon!
Just wanted to let you know, Rod didn't show-up on Sunday, because he said he didn't need to. He said he had a phenomenal National, did VERY well selling what he had put out up through Saturday, so just packed it in, and stayed in Canton for HOF festivities on Sunday.
Rocke
First, this one is for my future HOF PC. I'd say he already has a shot, but if he keeps playing, he will absolutely be a lock. I bought this from a guy on Blowout in raw form and got hand delivery on Wednesday. I dropped it off that day to Beckett and it came back a 9.5. Obviously with this thick of a card, it's rare (only the 4th to get this grade), so I will certainly keep this for that day his name is called. (A long way off though.)
Next, I decided to swap out some of my old redemptions through Panini. I gave up a couple of HOF autos that I already had, but was just wanting to upgrade. Figure if they are ever made, I will just buy them then. Well, needless to say, I got another for the Future HOF PC. I already had him, but this auto is a little nicer and it's only 2/5.
Next, I can officially say I have met a few HOFers. This was actually the first time I've ever been in autograph lines and I honestly enjoyed it. I did get a mini helmet signed by Joe D from the Bills, but forgot to upload a picture yet. Meanwhile, I got 4 Steeler HOFers and a legend. And I even got to put on Rocky's 4 SB rings!
This next one is just an upgrade piece. The auto is a lot cleaner, has nice patches and there are only 5. I sold a few pieces to the guy at a fair price, so he gave me a great deal on this one.
Next is something I won on e-bay while there. I had e-bay bucks to use up and didn't figure I would win this at the price I did. His card autographs usually go much higher even though it's a dual auto. And while Hirsch is a common cut, it would definitely not hurt the value in my opinion as he too is a HOFer. Not sure if these used to come with a seperate COA (my guess is yes), but I think the card stands alone very well.
Next I picked this piece up by trading away a lot of my extras. Most of them were very low end like Lem Barney, Larry Little, just smaller pieces. I did give up a couple of nicer pieces like Ernie Nevers, Troy Polamalu and Bob Hayes, but nothing that was out of this world. Obviously when trading up, you are going to lose on the value end, but there are only 10 of these out there and this is the first one I have ever seen in person. I likely still give up too much for it, but can't look back now. I slipped out a few pieces that I was not willing to give up for it, so overall, I am happy.
Last...and certainly not least. I am down to 10! I found this on the first day and after a little back and forth and thinking it over, I jumped on it. The guy did take a little off..and it's only SGC authenticated, but I will get it PSA slabbed soon enough. This is one that had eluded me for quite a while and though it's not his most beautiful auto, the paperwork and all the extras that are with it make it very unique. I hope to make get something a little nicer in the future, but for now, I can finally check him off the list.
It was nice seeing you again, Rocke and sorry I couldn't find anything you were hoping for, Derrick. Outside of those two letters, of course. Rod, was great talking with you and hope to hear from you soon. And no worries about not setting up Sunday. I don't blame you for not setting up at all. It was actually a rather slow day and everyone started packing up early. I spent most of the day around TriStar's autograph area waiting for my Steelers. Glad you did well though and hopefully I can even add to that total at some point!
J. T.
<< <i>
Last...and certainly not least. I am down to 10! I found this on the first day and after a little back and forth and thinking it over, I jumped on it. The guy did take a little off..and it's only SGC authenticated, but I will get it PSA slabbed soon enough. This is one that had eluded me for quite a while and though it's not his most beautiful auto, the paperwork and all the extras that are with it make it very unique. I hope to make get something a little nicer in the future, but for now, I can finally check him off the list.
>>
That's great that you finally got your Wietelmann -
I also have a Wietelmann signed Thorpe FDC (minus the Thorpe) Wietelmann was a SS for the Boston Braves 1939 - 1947 but his connection to Thorpe was that he was the bat boy for the 1925 Zanesville Greys of the Eastern Ohio League; his dad was the manager and Jim Thorpe played RF for the team
Did I say that I am STUNNED ??????
Stunned isn't strong enough. I think I am going into shock.
Does that mean the value of my signed Barwegan Bowman card is skyrocketing also ????? LOL
<< <i>Are you kidding me. I am absolutely STUNNED. Have you seen what that Joe Carr letter is going for right now in the H & S auction. Until the one sold about 3-4 months ago, that new member Kevin won for around 8,500.00 I don't ever remember a Carr selling for much over 4,000. With the Juice, someone is about to pay 4,000 MORE, than I have paid for my Mara and Bidwill COMBINED.
Did I say that I am STUNNED ?????? >>
Never thought I'd feel like I got a bargain on my Carr. Hate to think what it'd cost me if a Mara or Bidwell ever turn up. I may just wind up 3 short of a full HOFer collection.
<< <i>"3 short of a full HOFer collection" Is the third Ray? >>
That's the one.
<< <i>Anyone find anything interesting at the National? I haven't gone since 2006 in Anaheim. Curious if those who went found it worthwhile? >>
Well.... let me give my experience at this years National. Because of circumstances beyond my control, and also being Hall of Fame weekend, I was only able to be at the IX Center from 4:30 - 8:00 on Wednesday, and from 12:30 - 6:00 on Thursday. So, I was inside the show for a total of nine hours. I spent part of the time talking with Rod at his booth, and was joined at various times by Joe Mancino ( JMDVM ) J.T. (wju2004) and Rich (BigRed7). Stopped by the Heritage Auction Booth to say hello to friends Tony Giese and Chris Nerat. Stopped by the Huggins & Scott booth to say hello to Bill Huggins and because I knew Bill would be nice enough to allow me to get my picture holding Jim Browns rookie contract, and the Joe Carr letter, which just sold for 25,000 and 17,000 respectively. Also, I just recently bought a Jim Thorpe autograph from a local elderly lady, who got the autograph in person when Jim gave a speech at a local High School in 1952. She also had an autograph book which she wanted me to sell for her. ( Book didn't really have anyone great , a Nelson Eddy, Harry Belafonte, mostly people I never heard of ) I got 200.00 for it, which I gave her. Spent some time at Les Wolfe's booth. He has some nice items, but mostly just talked with him. A dealer from New Jersey, who I don't remember his name sold me three VERY nice autographs, Mel Hein, Clarke Hinkle, and Ernie Nevers, for 170.00 All three are perfect ballpoint pen, right in the middle of an unlined 3 x 5 card. But my two nicer pick-ups were a page from an autograph book, that had a perfect ( for me ) ballpoint pen Dick Barwegan autograph, which is why when it comes back from the latest group submission from Derrick, I will be selling the 1950 Bowman ballpoint pen signed by Barwegan that Derrick posted for me on page 255 of this thread on April 7th. I also picked up a FANTASTIC John "Blood" McNally ballpoint pen autograph. It is on a 3 x 5 postcard, and while it is personalized, it has fantastic content in which Blood references Bart Starr and Alabama. Has a FANTASTIC signature. Unfortunately, I also WASTED about three hours, between two booths, JSA ( not their fault ) and JSA's new "slabbing" partner Beckett ( entirely their fault). Would you believe that Beckett had run out of 3 x 5 slabs by early Thursday and so after a lot of back and forth, and me getting cell phone calls on two different occasions to return to see their rep. at the JSA booth, I finally just told him to give me my money and two autographs ( Turk Edwards and Dan Reeves ) that I wanted to have slabbed and the autographs graded, ( I was told by the Beckett Rep, off the record, that the Edwards would grade AT LEAST an "8" and the Reeves would grade AT LEAST a "9". How do you run out of 3 X 5 slabs Thursday afternoon. ????? However, I did get a very high end autograph authenticated and slabbed for a friend, and the aforementioned Jim Thorpe got slabbed as both were regular gum card sized. So, as of now I have a slabbed Jim Thorpe pencil autograph, BEAUTIFUL ballpoint pen autographs of Turk Edwards and Dan Reeves and John "Blood" McNally, a 1950 ballpoint pen card of Dick Barwegan, and I am awaiting a FULL LOA for a signed 8 X 10 Black & White photo rookie era signed picture from Thurman Munson. (Another recent pick-up) That are all for sale. VERY nice, but it is a fairly light signature.
All I all... a good, but not great National for me.
Rocke
Well, check out Ebay item # 321480244676 that is for sale for 8,000.00, comes with a FULL LOA from PSA/DNA and the owner is in Southern California.
Things that make you go HMMMMMM.
<< <i>Well, this is pretty funny. Remember that envelope that was on Ebay a few months ago, that was signed in pencil by Halas, George P. Marshall, Art Rooney, the seller didn't even know that George Preston Marshall was on it. I bid around 1,500.00 on it, there was a lot of debate whether it was authentic. I think one or two people even did the PSA quick opinion, and the Einsteins at PSA said "Likely NOT authentic". I said how easy it would be for someone at PSA to say its NOT authentic, thus scaring off some potential bidders, then someone at PSA bids on, wins, and then re-sells the item.
Well, check out Ebay item # 321480244676 that is for sale for 8,000.00, comes with a FULL LOA from PSA/DNA and the owner is in Southern California.
Things that make you go HMMMMMM. >>
Yup, this is why I quit using quick opinion. There was some things that did make me iffy about it anyhow and I was going to go after it as well, but chose not to after the quick opinion came back bad.
The owner of the envelope is over on blowout and I was talking to him and gave him my opinion of the value, but he strongly disagreed, but has significantly dropped his asking price on it as he started it out at $15000. (Far above what I told him where the value was, of course.)
Of course, the only one that interests me on there is Lambeau, but it's still a pretty nice piece overall.