<< <i> Our problem now is we lack the will to win, to crush them till they have no more fight left. Many Iraqis have asked me what has changed with America. In the past, we crushed our enemies and collateral damage was just part of it. >>
The rules of engagement are different than they were in defeating Japan and Germany in WWII. The geniuses running Bush-Cheney, Inc. adopted the liberation of France model , which meant defeat the ground forces and be showered with flowers and kisses as you liberate the towns and cities.
In contrast, when it comes to occupying a hostile country, which Iraq was and still is, there are two 20th century models of proven success–the American model and the German model.
The American model is predicated upon eliminating the hostile nation's armed forces, and reducing their towns and cities to rubble and ash. In that regard, there is no "collateral damage". The civilian centers are deliberately targeted. Eg. Dresden, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima. Once the entire population is living in complete privation, occupation becomes feasible. But there's a lot of rebuilding involved and not much in the way of material gain for the victor.
The German model leaves a lot more intact, as it is predicated upon occupation as a means of stealing the resources of the occupied country. Had we adopted the German model, our response to an IED attack on a convoy would be to round up the populace of the nearest town and machine gun them en masse. Clerics would have been rounded up and hung from lamp posts. Tribal leaders would have disappeared into the night and fog.
Neither the American model nor the German model would have been morally acceptable to the American public. So we are where we are today. Thousands dead and wounded; trillions of dollars spent; huge Federal debt incurred; the dollar losing value every day; and Hillary Clinton as the likely next President.
<< <i>to crush them till they have no more fight left >>
Crush who?? We haven't even defined the enemy. We are at war with "terror". That means an unending war with an undefined enemy. No capital to capture, no enemy to sign a surrender.
Continuous spending in a unwanted occupation that has no defined goal with money borrowed from China will destroy this country faster than any "terrorist". We played this same game iin Vietnam and 7 years later we had spent ourselves into inflation on an unwinnable war. Here we go again, borrow and spend and the military-industry gets rich and inflation will be back just like the 70's.
Death to Eurasia!!!
Long Live Big Brother!! Long Live Big Brother!! >>
Ignorance is bliss.
You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the Islamic world and their thought processes.
If the politicians would stay out of this, we would have already solved the problem.
You can't possibly understand the fear of the American Military in Islamic ruled countries. They rely on the media and our soft headed politicians, mostly Democrats, to continue their campaign.
Stick to things you actually know something about, you are embarrassing yourself in public.
Do you listen to Jimmy Carter? You know, the Shah doesn't look so bad now, does he? But noooooo, 'ole Jimma told us the Ayatollah was a "holy man".
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
It's rather unfair to hijack this forum. Maybe we can debate further some day when we are standing in line at the "Chinese sponsored" soup kitchen, should they decide to feed us.
<< <i>to crush them till they have no more fight left >>
Crush who?? We haven't even defined the enemy. We are at war with "terror". That means an unending war with an undefined enemy. No capital to capture, no enemy to sign a surrender.
Continuous spending in a unwanted occupation that has no defined goal with money borrowed from China will destroy this country faster than any "terrorist". We played this same game iin Vietnam and 7 years later we had spent ourselves into inflation on an unwinnable war. Here we go again, borrow and spend and the military-industry gets rich and inflation will be back just like the 70's.
Death to Eurasia!!!
Long Live Big Brother!! Long Live Big Brother!! >>
it's been said before that this undefined enemy will keep at us until we are bankrupt as a nation and will defeat us not on the battlefield sic!! - but financially and it appears this is happening - YES, I do see another Vietnam occuring - history is repeating itself - what to do - stop the liberal nonsense and go after these islama - radicals with both barrels smoking - let our CIA/military have full reign over wiping out their leaders and anyone who supports terrorism - WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS!!!!
currently putting together a EF/AU/BU 18th & 19th Century Type Set; and CC Morgan Set
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
<< <i>Militant Islam. Islamofascist terrorists and the nations that support and harbour them. That's who.
Next question? >>
How soon until we bomb Saudi Arabia? >>
Sometimes you have to dine with the Devil. It's doubtful we will ever engage Saudi. However, they would love it if we did just that to Iran.
This is not off-topic at all. The state of world politics and actions certainly effects the prices of PMs as much or more than anything else.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
If you can't carry your side of the debate coyn, don't lower yourself to whining it's off topic. That's what the bugs do when any contrary opinion infiltrates this thread. Don't be threatened so easily. Man up.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I have followed this thread for a couple years and I would not want to be anyway responsible for turning it into a political debate, something you seem intending to do. You talk of "my side of this debate" and you have no clue what it is and I won't spent hours trying to explain it to you. Darkhorse however is right that its affect on economics and PMs is relevant so I will limit my contribution to economic issues. If you want to find an arguement I'm sure you can find it somewhere else. For now you can call me a few names, pretent you won some petty victory and go away.
So that it might go back to the direction from whence it came let's not deny that whatever one believes about this conflict it remains a financial burden that will cost this country much more than we can see. The trillions we are spending is borrowed money and when the time comes to pay up we will find we have done much more damage to this country than the "enemy" could have accomplished. The Soviet Union didn't fold because of any armed enemy, they went under because of bankruptcy and we seem to be following in that path.
The first baby boomer is retiring and expecting Social Security, she will be followed by 78 million more who want full medical as well as SS for their remaining 20-30 years. In the end it will be our kids and thier kids who will end up paying for all this excessive spending.
<< <i> Besides, history has continually shown that lowering taxes increases the amount raked in by the IRS, not the other way around. >>
Awesome, just lower them to 0% and watch the government rake in the revenue!!... >>
Although you are being sarcastic, you cannot deny that tax cuts have increased revenues and decreased the deficit to a 5 year low, which if you rely on the mainstream media for your economic news, is indeed news to you:
Look more closely. And read the link. You make stuff up as you go, huh? >>
I am all for tax cuts if they are balances with spending cuts. Don't like taxes and I'm not for strong central government. I have heard that more than half of the people in the US work for the government now in one way or another. Too much spending and not enough taxes to make that spending painful is a recipe for economic disaster IMO.
These graphs are interesting, but unfortunately all they prove so far is that government is taxing us to death and spending even more.
There is a thing in statistics called spurious correlation which a lot of bad science/management/politics is based on. This is where two things are displayed together and it is "shown" that one causes the other. Many times a third or fourth variable is causing the change of both.
Most likely the increased receipts are due to the loose Fed policies causing overheating in the economy and inflation instead of the tax cut.
Well Gentlemen, we have gone off on these tangents of the blame game before in this thread, but that fact is that it really does not matter to us now who, or what is to blame.
As a nation, and as individuals, we were spending and borrowing way beyond our means before there was ever a war. All of our trusts funds for S.C., federal pension plan, FDIC, etc. etc. etc. were long gone before the war.
This thread was designed to help us all stay ahead of the average person in the street, and to use many brains to figure out how to react to what is happing to us and our families that is beyond our control.
Those that have followed some of the excellent advice put forward in this tread over the last few years are no doubt much better off in the protection of their wealth and family assets, and we need to continue down that path as these crisis unfold.
For those of you that have not been able to read the entire thread I will tell you again that at one time I was one of the leading Republicans in the state of Texas, and today I am no longer even associated with that party, or any other for that matter. In six years of controlling the congress, the presidency, and the Supreme Court, the grand old party did nothing to solve our national problems. I have come to realize that they did nothing because they COULD NOT!
Who ever, and what ever, is to blame at this point is a mute point. The fact is we are going down one tube or another, and our time here is much better spent finding individualized solutions.
As COYNCLECTER pointed out the first baby boomer applied for S.C. yesterday, and Pandora’s box is now open.
Gold is at $760.70 this morning and oil is at $87.47. Those conservative savers that own T-Bills and bonds are being paid 5%, and with inflation, and taxes, they loss money every day.
The Enemy Within.....Sept. 11, 2001 was not a surprise, but it was a surprise to the American People...Our Intelligence Agencies new it was going down and did nothing to stop it! Why!!!! Germany gave them the Intelligence and it was ignored...Oil is the game....If this was a War it would have been done and over with....they use the Term Terror to make people think it is not a war and we are fighting an UNKNOWN! The UNKNOWN is within our borders in our Government and on our streets...The Unknown is who won our so called National Elections...the one who wanted to make Spanish our First Language the ones who dangled all those HANGING CHADS!!!! Chaos is abound and was home grown from the beginning....Will he be a Legend in his own time....will history mark him as such! Ben Laden was the one who did it, what a brilliant one to have USED OUR Planes to kill and destroy our own people, and hold a Nation Hostage and in total Fear....Yet today our borders have not been secured....why, because the Enemy is already Within....Don't any of you Baby Boomers get sick cause the plan is already in motion....Talk about cleansing we have not seen anything yet!
There will be a new candidate come from the ranks, someone like FDR or Kennedy or McGovern in '68. Someone will come to the forefront. Someone will come that is not a franchise holder to some party line. They will be someone with strong hands and strong will and a clear vision. Leaders are born of troubled times and while we aren't particularly troubled just yet, we well may be by the time the next election comes around in 2012 and at that time, we will look for that leadership.
Until then, we wait. Diversify, invest in hard assets, stash cash, no consumer debt, or as the Fugio coin said, "Mind your Business"...and mind it well!
I we could set politics aside for a moment and view the state of the economy if we were not funding a war. Where would we stand? I believe there are many red herrings in all of these arguments with respect to various views held and expressed here.
Take a moment and hold a personal inventory, is your own situation better in terms of where you live, do you own, have you improved your physical home and what percentage of your income is used to support your housing. Is your coin collection / net worth larger than it was 3 years ago, 2 years ago, last year? What is the trend of your personal net worth of the past few years. Have you been promoted, expanded your business, etc. I am not talking about anyone but those who read this thread. I can pick an example from either argument of someone who is not me, but is close to me. How much different is your credit card debit over that time frame.
I am not suggesting any individual wealth strategy in terms of what to hold is better, only that zero credit card debt is optimal in the long term.
For my own inventory, using the past 3 to 5 years, I still have no credit card debt, a larger house with far more land and a lower mortgage and a coin collection of roughly the same value, although the composition has changed due to changing interests.
My point to all of this is that most of the folks posting here (even the gloom and doom predictors) who take a personal inventory will discover they are better off than they were before. Notice the word MOST. There are very savvy individuals who from there collections I can extrapolate much success, else they would not be able to buy the coins they do. The seas may look rocky, but the sailors seem to be in good health and the spirits are mixed if I read these posts correctly. FYI, I have been following this thread since its inception.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>There will be a new candidate come from the ranks, someone like FDR or Kennedy or McGovern in '68. Someone will come to the forefront. Someone will come that is not a franchise holder to some party line. They will be someone with strong hands and strong will and a clear vision. Leaders are born of troubled times and while we aren't particularly troubled just yet, we well may be by the time the next election comes around in 2012 and at that time, we will look for that leadership.
Until then, we wait. Diversify, invest in hard assets, stash cash, no consumer debt, or as the Fugio coin said, "Mind your Business"...and mind it well! >>
I suppose I am showing my age again, but with all due respect, George McGovern was the Dem candidate in '72. He was no leader at all and was nearly the biggest loser in the history of Presidential elections. He didn't even win his own state and only received 17 electoral votes, winning only one state (Massachusetts) and the District of Columbia. He lost 520-17 in the Electoral College. Only Walter Mondale lost worse in '84 by getting only 13 votes in the E.C.
There may be a leader out there, time will tell. Ronald Reagan remains the last of such men to come to the forefront. FDR? Please, he is primarily responsible for the socialist nature of our current national policies. Kennedy wasn't really much of a leader, but he was around at a time of crisis, he is mostly remembered for his surprising tax cuts and the Cuban missile crisis. The fact the he was cut down 3 years into his first term has given him a status he likely would never have achieved had he lived. It's widely accepted that it was unlikely he would have won re-election in '64.
This current crop of candidates doesn't appear to contain a man/woman who can unite us. Fred Thompson may be the only one, he does have that sort of charisma, but it will be difficult for him to rise above the din. Our current media is so shallow and left leaning that we are doomed to being showered with the likes of Hillary and Rudy 24/7. The next election is next year, 2008. I hope we don't have to wait till 2012 for strong leadership. Sometimes I wonder just who really is pulling the strings. GW Bush has been doing exactly the opposite of his track record as Governor of Texas and has been the biggest disappointment, at least in my eyes, since Jimmy Carter. I knew what to expect from Slick Willy, so he wasn't that much of a disappointment. He just continued his string of corruption as he had done in Arkansas.
I think we are on our own and we are headed for much more troubling times. Minding our own business and minding it well is good advice as we have no real leadership anymore. Those who have the right ideas, guarding our borders, keeping our military strong, keeping our culture intact, etc. have almost no chance as we head into this next election. Sadly, the destruction of the best health care in the world seems to be on our horizon.
This thread has been filled with great advice and some very intelligent minds. It seems we have been right all along and it's been a great ride and a wonderful source of information. I trust it will continue till we are discussing problems and possible solutions all the way to the election of 2012. It's difficult to imagine where we will be by then, I do believe one safe bet is that we will still be in this commodities bull. I hope we are all safe and sound and still hashing this out when that time rolls around.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Yep, deadhorse, you're old...it's good to be old. I liked the guys I mentioned, but that's just me and we all are gifted with our own opinions; no harm, no foul. Oh, yes...FDR's social security act of 1935 was a brilliant piece of legislation along with the WPA, CCC and other efforts to make us whole again. Call him right, call him wrong but he was a very strong leader. You could say Kennedy wasn't a great leader...unless of course you were trying to smuggle icbm's into Cuba. We do seem to be suffering a lack of leadership for '08 so surely '12 is the next best chance. I do forsee the emergence of a strong personality in the next few years. We have our political opinions and I shouldn't have posted mine because that's not why we are doing this thread and I will refrain from any politically tinged discourse in the future. This is just not the right place for that.
Yes, that was interesting. Some of the percentages in the BLS chart are not what I expected. What the article did miss is the changed demographics of the household statistic. But it cannot address everything in this complex situation. Still, you spend differently when you are an increasingly health failing baby boomer with no kids left to send to college and retirement asset protection as an important consideration that you might when you are doing summer fmaily trips to Yellowstone in the stationwagon in an internet devoid three TV network world.
The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5% However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers). On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now.
<< <i>Yep, deadhorse, you're old...it's good to be old. I liked the guys I mentioned, but that's just me and we all are gifted with our own opinions; no harm, no foul. Oh, yes...FDR's social security act of 1935 was a brilliant piece of legislation along with the WPA, CCC and other efforts to make us whole again. Call him right, call him wrong but he was a very strong leader. You could say Kennedy wasn't a great leader...unless of course you were trying to smuggle icbm's into Cuba. We do seem to be suffering a lack of leadership for '08 so surely '12 is the next best chance. I do forsee the emergence of a strong personality in the next few years. We have our political opinions and I shouldn't have posted mine because that's not why we are doing this thread and I will refrain from any politically tinged discourse in the future. This is just not the right place for that. >>
Oh, I don't think we can really separate politics from a thread like this. No, it shouldn't be the defining central point, but it certainly effects the original topic. I agree that FDR was a strong leader, though I liked Truman much more. Social Security is the primary issue I have with FDR. Yes, he did do many things that were needed at the time, but continuing socialism isn't the answer. It's never worked anywhere before and it's slowly ruining us.
Will a true leader step up? I honestly don't know. For now, only Fred Thompson looks to fit that bill. Time will tell, but I fear greatly what we may get in 2008. If it's Hillary, I'll probably retire early or somehow defer my income till she's gone.
FWIW, I voted for and worked for McGovern, that was the first time I could vote as the age was lowered to 18 from 21. Since then, I've gotten older and a bit wiser and my eyes were finally open by that next election. You have to admit, the peanut farmer was a disaster.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
It's Hillary. The Ron Paulludites are going to see to that. And they are incapable to seeing the irony therein, that by voting for him and thus electing Hillary, they are guaranteed to get precisely what they CLAIM to despise, government control of every miniscule aspect of their lives. They just are incapable of thinking it through, just want to feel good about their empty statement.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5% However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers). On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now. >>
The highest tax brackets we've seen were under Carter, 90% for the CEO types. Today it is around 40%, not 33%. I pay around 33% and I'm hardly in the top 1%. When you add on SS, medicare, propery, and all the hidden fees and taxes, I am already paying around 55% at last count.
Considering all the hidden taxes we now have, I tend to think the average guy is paying much more than in 1970.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
The article points to housing as one of the major indicators regarding the middle class squeeze. However, they do not highlight that the average size of a new home today is 2400 square feet and in 1970 it was 1200 square feet. While not apples and oranges, it is an apple and a supersized apple. I would also add the average family size has decreased over this period moving the needle even further.
If you ask how all the people you know over 55 who live north of the mason dixon line, how many of them had central AC as a child and how many have it now, you will most likely find that virtually all have it now, and few had it as children. We are living better IMHO. The good old days are now.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>If you ask how all the people you know over 55 who live north of the mason dixon line, how many of them had central AC as a child and how many have it now, you will most likely find that virtually all have it now, and few had it as children. We are living better IMHO. The good old days are now. >>
That statement applies nationwide, not just north of the Mason Dixon Line. For example, few homes anywhere in Texas had central AC up through the 60s. It was only in the early to mid 70s that the average new homes were built that way. There were also lots of retrofits to older homes being done at the same time. When the Astrodome was built, people lined up as early as possible and stayed till they were asked to leave. As many people went for the AC as they did for the games back then. Even window units were rare in the 50s and 60s.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
> The highest tax brackets we've seen were under Carter, 90% for the CEO types. Today it is around 40%, not 33%. I pay around 33% and I'm hardly in the top 1%. When you add on SS, medicare, propery, and all the hidden fees and taxes, I am already paying around 55% at last count.
> Considering all the hidden taxes we now have, I tend to think the average guy is paying much more than in 1970.
I was only talking about the Federal Income Tax. The other items you mentioned would have been tacked onto Federal Income tax whether it was 1970 or 2007. Unless they were grossly higher or lower, their impact would be roughly the same regardless of year.
You are correct about the top rate today; it is 39.6% However, the top tax rate during Carter's term was 70%, not 90%.
The bottom bracket in 1970 was taxed at 14%. Today it is 15%.
Contrast these rates with the "Golden Years" of American economic dominance. From 1954 to 1963 the top rate was 91%, and the lowest rate was 20%
The BabyBoomers worst Nightmare is going to be HEALTHCARE!!!!! Healthcare will be everyones nightmare, more than anything else....Medicare will revise and insurance companies will revise as to what they will cover and will not cover...they will be in it for the money and what they can save for themselves and the Patient is screwed....It will only lead to poor medical care across the board....many deaths that should not be!
If you are in an certain age group...God Help You!
<< <i>It's Hillary. The Ron Paulludites are going to see to that. And they are incapable to seeing the irony therein, that by voting for him and thus electing Hillary, they are guaranteed to get precisely what they CLAIM to despise, government control of every miniscule aspect of their lives. They just are incapable of thinking it through, just want to feel good about their empty statement. >>
<< <i>The BabyBoomers worst Nightmare is going to be HEALTHCARE!!!!! Healthcare will be everyones nightmare, more than anything else....Medicare will revise and insurance companies will revise as to what they will cover and will not cover...they will be in it for the money and what they can save for themselves and the Patient is screwed....It will only lead to poor medical care across the board....many deaths that should not be!
If you are in an certain age group...God Help You! >>
The link includes a link to a Business Week article with this quote: "In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems."
<< <i>The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5% However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers). On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now. >>
How much is the average Hollywood actor's or sports figure's wages increased to the average man since the 70's?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I think a lot of this has to do with a shortage of doctors. Why would a Canadian stay in Canada and make a decent salary when he/she can live in the USA and make an excellant salary? There are just not enough doctors up north. I doubt we would see a decline in healthcare with a nationalized system. For all intents purpose we already have it---just go to the emergency room at your local hospital and you will see it full of non-emergency patients. People go there for a runny nose because they dont have health insurance or their insurance only covers them if they are seen in an emergency room. You--the taxpayer--picks up the tab. The system is bogged down.
<< <i>I think a lot of this has to do with a shortage of doctors. Why would a Canadian stay in Canada and make a decent salary when he/she can live in the USA and make an excellant salary? There are just not enough doctors up north. I doubt we would see a decline in healthcare with a nationalized system. For all intents purpose we already have it---just go to the emergency room at your local hospital and you will see it full of non-emergency patients. People go there for a runny nose because they dont have health insurance or their insurance only covers them if they are seen in an emergency room. You--the taxpayer--picks up the tab. The system is bogged down. >>
Bingo! we already have it, and it sure isn't working very well. I had one of my technicians go to the emergency room a few months back with a broken hand. Since it was deemed 'non emergency' he had to wait in a huge line with illegal immigrants using the emergency room as their local doctor. This is a large county hospital that was almost closed down two years ago from too much debt. The illegal immigrants were using the emergency room for every cough and sniffle, and of course not paying their bills. The county had to have a ballot measure to keep it open, which raised sales taxes in the Phoenix area a half-penny; i wouldn't really have cared if it would stay open, but it was the only level 1 burn trauma unit in the area, and it would have been a great loss to use that unit located inside the hospital. Maricopa County is the fifth largest county in America, and we pay a ton of money in taxes to keep hospitals open, and bail them out when the uninsured (especially illegal immigrants) either can't pay their bills, or never have any intention of paying due to lack of legal paperwork and providing false information/addresses.
Yes, we need more doctors and other high-talent professionals. We are getting them from places like India but we sure need more of them than lettuce pickers and house painters. (We have minimum security prisoners we could tap for that detail in a pinch.)
“The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5% However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.”
I wish I knew where all these numbers come from?
During the recent negotiations with the UAW the news reported that the average UAW worker made $76.00 per hour with benefits. I am the CEO of my small company and I am making $43.75 per hour and have not had a raise in 6 years.
“ Interesting read.”
COHODK,
I wonder why none of these writers point out that the reason everyone’s wallets are empty is because we pay 60% of our income in Taxes.
Just for a little fun I bought a used Harley a few weeks back. Paid $10,000 for it, and registered it today and paid $713 in sales Taxes.
This in this morning, sent to me by a friend who was in high school in 1955. In all of Human history have things ever changed so drastically?
"I'll tell you one thing, if things keep going the way they are, it's going to be impossible to buy a week's groceries for $20."
"Have you seen the new cars coming out next year? It won't be long before $2000 will only buy a used one."
"If cigarettes keep going up in price, I'm going to quit. A quarter a pack is ridiculous."
"Did you hear the post office is thinking about charging a dime just to mail a letter?"
"If they raise the minimum wage to $1, nobody will be able to hire outside help at the store."
"When I first started driving, who would have thought gas would someday cost 29 cents a gallon. Guess we'd be better off leaving the car in the garage."
I’m afraid to send my kids to the movies any more. Ever since they let Clark Gable get by with saying 'damn' in 'Gone With The Wind,' it seems every new movie has either "hell" or "damn" in it.
"Did you see where some baseball player just signed a contract for $75,000 a year just to play ball? It wouldn't surprise me if someday they'll be making more than the president."
"It's too bad things are so tough nowadays. I see where a few married women are having to work to make ends meet."
"It won't be long before young couples are going to have to hire someone to watch their kids so they can both work."
"Thank goodness I won't live to see the day when Governments take half our income in taxes. I sometimes wonder if we are electing the best people to government."
"There is no sense going to Lincoln or Omaha anymore for a weekend. It costs nearly $15 a night to stay in a hotel"
"No one can afford to be sick any more; $35 a day in the hospital is too rich for my blood."
"If they think I'll pay 50 cents for a hair cut, forget it."
<< <i>I think a lot of this has to do with a shortage of doctors. Why would a Canadian stay in Canada and make a decent salary when he/she can live in the USA and make an excellant salary? There are just not enough doctors up north. I doubt we would see a decline in healthcare with a nationalized system. For all intents purpose we already have it---just go to the emergency room at your local hospital and you will see it full of non-emergency patients. People go there for a runny nose because they dont have health insurance or their insurance only covers them if they are seen in an emergency room. You--the taxpayer--picks up the tab. The system is bogged down. >>
Bingo! we already have it, and it sure isn't working very well. I had one of my technicians go to the emergency room a few months back with a broken hand. Since it was deemed 'non emergency' he had to wait in a huge line with illegal immigrants using the emergency room as their local doctor. This is a large county hospital that was almost closed down two years ago from too much debt. The illegal immigrants were using the emergency room for every cough and sniffle, and of course not paying their bills. The county had to have a ballot measure to keep it open, which raised sales taxes in the Phoenix area a half-penny; i wouldn't really have cared if it would stay open, but it was the only level 1 burn trauma unit in the area, and it would have been a great loss to use that unit located inside the hospital. Maricopa County is the fifth largest county in America, and we pay a ton of money in taxes to keep hospitals open, and bail them out when the uninsured (especially illegal immigrants) either can't pay their bills, or never have any intention of paying due to lack of legal paperwork and providing false information/addresses. >>
But Hey it is worth it for 20 cents off the price of lettice is it not? Come on, John McCain thinks it is grand.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Social Security is the primary issue I have with FDR. Yes, he did do many things that were needed at the time, but continuing socialism isn't the answer. It's never worked anywhere before and it's slowly ruining us.
Wow..............the most successful government program in US history and you’ve got a problem with it? The only program that has kept millions of people from living in gutters and becoming a complete burden on their offspring and society. I guess you made your money and everyone else should too.
I could go on and on, but lets not. Please stay on topic! GOLD AND SILVER WORLD NEWS, ECONOMIC PREDICTIONS
I have been reading this thread for about 6 months and feel like have received a free education in practical economics. Honestly, I feel like a mental midget when it comes to a lot of what the 'regulars' are talking about, but it makes me do some research and for that I thank you. I have read Gary North for a long time, but not nec. his gold buggery, more of his theological tomes.
The political / religious digressions don't bother me at all-- they are inevitable in discussions like this. As long as the AD HOMINEM attacks are avoided, it's OK-- just read past the stuff you don't like.
Per coxe above:
<< <i>Yes, we need more doctors and other high-talent professionals. We are getting them from places like India but we sure need more of them than lettuce pickers and house painters. (We have minimum security prisoners we could tap for that detail in a pinch.) >>
I am in full time family practice and teach/train FP residents part-time instead of playing golf, for the last 15 years. In the last 5 years, our program of 12 doctors/ year has seen a drastic change demographically. The number of American-trained MDs applying for slots in the program has dwindled to a trickle, and we basically now have to have ENGLISH classes and America inculturation training sessions BEFORE even beginning to broach the complexities of modern primary care. And sorry folks, these International graduates, are not as intelligent across the board as legend may have it.
Primary care is becoming as desirable as menial labor, for what one has to invest in it, and then get out of it. America's best aren't choosing it. Here are the first names of our newest intern class:
Tahanie Mohammed Aida Allison Seetha Yu Sarah Tahira Tim Rabeya Adric Natavan Arielle (extra spot given for last minute match)
I look forward to reading this thread, especially as it concerns the PM market. I still haven't dove in with gold, but definitely watching things more closely and trying to 'read the book.'
Don
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
<< <i>I have been reading this thread for about 6 months and feel like have received a free education in practical economics. Honestly, I feel like a mental midget when it comes to a lot of what the 'regulars' are talking about, but it makes me do some research and for that I thank you. I have read Gary North for a long time, but not nec. his gold buggery, more of his theological tomes.
The political / religious digressions don't bother me at all-- they are inevitable in discussions like this. As long as the AD HOMINEM attacks are avoided, it's OK-- just read past the stuff you don't like.
Per coxe above:
<< <i>Yes, we need more doctors and other high-talent professionals. We are getting them from places like India but we sure need more of them than lettuce pickers and house painters. (We have minimum security prisoners we could tap for that detail in a pinch.) >>
I am in full time family practice and teach/train FP residents part-time instead of playing golf, for the last 15 years. In the last 5 years, our program of 12 doctors/ year has seen a drastic change demographically. The number of American-trained MDs applying for slots in the program has dwindled to a trickle, and we basically now have to have ENGLISH classes and America inculturation training sessions BEFORE even beginning to broach the complexities of modern primary care. And sorry folks, these International graduates, are not as intelligent across the board as legend may have it.
Primary care is becoming as desirable as menial labor, for what one has to invest in it, and then get out of it. America's best aren't choosing it. Here are the first names of our newest intern class:
Tahanie Mohammed Aida Allison Seetha Yu Sarah Tahira Tim Rabeya Adric Natavan Arielle (extra spot given for last minute match)
I look forward to reading this thread, especially as it concerns the PM market. I still haven't dove in with gold, but definitely watching things more closely and trying to 'read the book.'
Don >>
it has been this way for years..speacialists, too what's in a name? just because billy-bob ain't there or tiffany doesn't mean they ain't good....grammar intentional
<< <i>Comparing our fudged stats for GDP growth and unemployment to other countries is like apples to oranges. >>
That's right!! There is no comparison. The EU Countries are stagnating and Socialism is choking them off. If you are trying to say that the Europeans are better off than we are, then you're in denial of the facts.
<< <i> The unemployment number should probably be closer to 10% than 5% if you count the people who are capable of working but are not working. >>
What???? Now you're just making stuff up. Where in the world do you get a statistic like that? If we had an unemployment rate of 10% this country would be in a serious economic crisis. I've lived in Fla. during many of the economic booms and the employment rate would never get any lower than 4-4.5%. Even when jobs were plentiful, the rate never wants to break this barrier. You have a certain number of people who will not work, period, and then you have the people in between jobs. A 4-5% unemployment rate is considered by some to be full employment. Or as full as you will ever get. Oh, Maybe Germany is fudging their numbers also and their actual unemployment rate is closer to 15%???? Who knows?? My point was, we are much better off in this country than the rest of the worlds population and I get tired of the doom and gloomers saying we are the verge of an economic collapse. I'll tell you something else!! If this country goes down financially, then we will be taking the rest of the world with us. The gold bugs can amass all the gold they want. But you can't eat gold. One other thing about the dollar. Believe me when it is in the interests of the rest of the world to stop the fall of the dollar they'll start buying dollars to prop it up. It is definitely not in their interest to have a weak dollar. We are nearing that point now. The Europeans are now starting to buy more US goods because of the weak dollar. Talk to someone in NY City. People are flying in there to load up on US goods. On the flip side, American tourists are buying virtually nothing when traveling overseas because there products are to expensive. China will start buying dollars, because the products they manufacture will start to become to expensive. A weak dollar is great for our exporters. The ones we have left, that is. Sorry if I'm rambling....I'm tired. >>
Elwood you said that in 2004. And the guy he said it to is still making stuff upRereading from the start of the thread is a hoot! Oh, the predictions gone bad are too numerous to count, and the same people are making the same predictions today!
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Best to reread the title again: Gold and Silver....predictions
Seems to me that that this thread has done exactly that, predicted where gold and silver were going. 90% of the pundits here would never have thunk gold over $400....let alone $750. Not much to laugh about there. Dig back to several years and you'll find references to the now infamous liquidity/derivatives mess. If the thread enabled just one more person to help them better plan through the current problems we face, it did its job. The true irony of it is that we've only seen the tip of the problems so far. Things will get far worse before they get better.
Pharmer, you are a piece of work. As far as being pwned , you'll have to explain your broken English first.
Any more key news from the Heritage Foundation to spew forth here? Or would today's worst ever TIC report (-$163 Billion trade deficit) tend to counter the bogus charts you posted above. But I will admit the pretty colors and clarity of the charts would have gotten the attention of a 4th grader. Oh, I guess that's how you first noticed it. Kindly take your sniveling to a forum that cares. So sorry that the Open "OK Corral" Forum is no longer available for your tiresome antics. Hey "Dude," that term went out with Ashton Kutcher on punked. Not hip, just rude.
"You have to choose (as a voter) between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."
Comments
<< <i> Our problem now is we lack the will to win, to crush them till they have no more fight left. Many Iraqis have asked me what has changed with America. In the past, we crushed our enemies and collateral damage was just part of it. >>
The rules of engagement are different than they were in defeating Japan and Germany in WWII. The geniuses running Bush-Cheney, Inc. adopted the liberation of France model , which meant defeat the ground forces and be showered with flowers and kisses as you liberate the towns and cities.
In contrast, when it comes to occupying a hostile country, which Iraq was and still is, there are two 20th century models of proven success–the American model and the German model.
The American model is predicated upon eliminating the hostile nation's armed forces, and reducing their towns and cities to rubble and ash. In that regard, there is no "collateral damage". The civilian centers are deliberately targeted. Eg. Dresden, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima. Once the entire population is living in complete privation, occupation becomes feasible. But there's a lot of rebuilding involved and not much in the way of material gain for the victor.
The German model leaves a lot more intact, as it is predicated upon occupation as a means of stealing the resources of the occupied country. Had we adopted the German model, our response to an IED attack on a convoy would be to round up the populace of the nearest town and machine gun them en masse. Clerics would have been rounded up and hung from lamp posts. Tribal leaders would have disappeared into the night and fog.
Neither the American model nor the German model would have been morally acceptable to the American public. So we are where we are today. Thousands dead and wounded; trillions of dollars spent; huge Federal debt incurred; the dollar losing value every day; and Hillary Clinton as the likely next President.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>to crush them till they have no more fight left >>
Crush who?? We haven't even defined the enemy. We are at war with "terror". That means an unending war with an undefined enemy. No capital to capture, no enemy to sign a surrender.
Continuous spending in a unwanted occupation that has no defined goal with money borrowed from China will destroy this country faster than any "terrorist". We played this same game iin Vietnam and 7 years later we had spent ourselves into inflation on an unwinnable war. Here we go again, borrow and spend and the military-industry gets rich and inflation will be back just like the 70's.
Death to Eurasia!!!
Long Live Big Brother!!
Long Live Big Brother!! >>
Ignorance is bliss.
You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the Islamic world and their thought processes.
If the politicians would stay out of this, we would have already solved the problem.
You can't possibly understand the fear of the American Military in Islamic ruled countries. They rely on the media and our soft headed politicians, mostly Democrats, to continue their campaign.
Stick to things you actually know something about, you are embarrassing yourself in public.
Do you listen to Jimmy Carter? You know, the Shah doesn't look so bad now, does he? But noooooo, 'ole Jimma told us the Ayatollah was a "holy man".
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
It's rather unfair to hijack this forum.
Maybe we can debate further some day when we are standing in line at the "Chinese sponsored" soup kitchen, should they decide to feed us.
<< <i>Militant Islam. Islamofascist terrorists and the nations that support and harbour them. That's who.
Next question? >>
How soon until we bomb Saudi Arabia?
<< <i>
<< <i>to crush them till they have no more fight left >>
Crush who?? We haven't even defined the enemy. We are at war with "terror". That means an unending war with an undefined enemy. No capital to capture, no enemy to sign a surrender.
Continuous spending in a unwanted occupation that has no defined goal with money borrowed from China will destroy this country faster than any "terrorist". We played this same game iin Vietnam and 7 years later we had spent ourselves into inflation on an unwinnable war. Here we go again, borrow and spend and the military-industry gets rich and inflation will be back just like the 70's.
Death to Eurasia!!!
Long Live Big Brother!!
Long Live Big Brother!! >>
it's been said before that this undefined enemy will keep at us until we are bankrupt as a nation and will defeat us not on the battlefield sic!! - but financially and it appears this is happening - YES, I do see another Vietnam occuring - history is repeating itself - what to do - stop the liberal nonsense and go after these islama - radicals with both barrels smoking - let our CIA/military have full reign over wiping out their leaders and anyone who supports terrorism - WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS!!!!
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
<< <i>
<< <i>Militant Islam. Islamofascist terrorists and the nations that support and harbour them. That's who.
Next question? >>
How soon until we bomb Saudi Arabia? >>
Sometimes you have to dine with the Devil. It's doubtful we will ever engage Saudi. However, they would love it if we did just that to Iran.
This is not off-topic at all. The state of world politics and actions certainly effects the prices of PMs as much or more than anything else.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
So that it might go back to the direction from whence it came let's not deny that whatever one believes about this conflict it remains a financial burden that will cost this country much more than we can see. The trillions we are spending is borrowed money and when the time comes to pay up we will find we have done much more damage to this country than the "enemy" could have accomplished. The Soviet Union didn't fold because of any armed enemy, they went under because of bankruptcy and we seem to be following in that path.
The first baby boomer is retiring and expecting Social Security, she will be followed by 78 million more who want full medical as well as SS for their remaining 20-30 years. In the end it will be our kids and thier kids who will end up paying for all this excessive spending.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Besides, history has continually shown that lowering taxes increases the amount raked in by the IRS, not the other way around. >>
Awesome, just lower them to 0% and watch the government rake in the revenue!!... >>
Although you are being sarcastic, you cannot deny that tax cuts have increased revenues and decreased the deficit to a 5 year low, which if you rely on the mainstream media for your economic news, is indeed news to you:
Interesting link, read the whole thing. >>
Look more closely. And read the link. You make stuff up as you go, huh? >>
I am all for tax cuts if they are balances with spending cuts. Don't like taxes and I'm not for strong central government. I have heard that more than half of the people in the US work for the government now in one way or another. Too much spending and not enough taxes to make that spending painful is a recipe for economic disaster IMO.
These graphs are interesting, but unfortunately all they prove so far is that government is taxing us to death and spending even more.
There is a thing in statistics called spurious correlation which a lot of bad science/management/politics is based on. This is where two things are displayed together and it is "shown" that one causes the other. Many times a third or fourth variable is causing the change of both.
Most likely the increased receipts are due to the loose Fed policies causing overheating in the economy and inflation instead of the tax cut.
Well Gentlemen, we have gone off on these tangents of the blame game before in this thread, but that fact is that it really does not matter to us now who, or what is to blame.
As a nation, and as individuals, we were spending and borrowing way beyond our means before there was ever a war. All of our trusts funds for S.C., federal pension plan, FDIC, etc. etc. etc. were long gone before the war.
This thread was designed to help us all stay ahead of the average person in the street, and to use many brains to figure out how to react to what is happing to us and our families that is beyond our control.
Those that have followed some of the excellent advice put forward in this tread over the last few years are no doubt much better off in the protection of their wealth and family assets, and we need to continue down that path as these crisis unfold.
For those of you that have not been able to read the entire thread I will tell you again that at one time I was one of the leading Republicans in the state of Texas, and today I am no longer even associated with that party, or any other for that matter. In six years of controlling the congress, the presidency, and the Supreme Court, the grand old party did nothing to solve our national problems. I have come to realize that they did nothing because they COULD NOT!
Who ever, and what ever, is to blame at this point is a mute point. The fact is we are going down one tube or another, and our time here is much better spent finding individualized solutions.
As COYNCLECTER pointed out the first baby boomer applied for S.C. yesterday, and Pandora’s box is now open.
Gold is at $760.70 this morning and oil is at $87.47. Those conservative savers that own T-Bills and bonds are being paid 5%, and with inflation, and taxes, they loss money every day.
It's not to late to fix the financial problems this country has.
We just need a leader/leaders to do what has to be done.
Random Collector
www.marksmedals.com
Until then, we wait. Diversify, invest in hard assets, stash cash, no consumer debt, or as the Fugio coin said, "Mind your Business"...and mind it well!
Take a moment and hold a personal inventory, is your own situation better in terms of where you live, do you own, have you improved your physical home and what percentage of your income is used to support your housing. Is your coin collection / net worth larger than it was 3 years ago, 2 years ago, last year? What is the trend of your personal net worth of the past few years. Have you been promoted, expanded your business, etc. I am not talking about anyone but those who read this thread. I can pick an example from either argument of someone who is not me, but is close to me. How much different is your credit card debit over that time frame.
I am not suggesting any individual wealth strategy in terms of what to hold is better, only that zero credit card debt is optimal in the long term.
For my own inventory, using the past 3 to 5 years, I still have no credit card debt, a larger house with far more land and a lower mortgage and a coin collection of roughly the same value, although the composition has changed due to changing interests.
My point to all of this is that most of the folks posting here (even the gloom and doom predictors) who take a personal inventory will discover they are better off than they were before. Notice the word MOST. There are very savvy individuals who from there collections I can extrapolate much success, else they would not be able to buy the coins they do. The seas may look rocky, but the sailors seem to be in good health and the spirits are mixed if I read these posts correctly. FYI, I have been following this thread since its inception.
<< <i>There will be a new candidate come from the ranks, someone like FDR or Kennedy or McGovern in '68. Someone will come to the forefront. Someone will come that is not a franchise holder to some party line. They will be someone with strong hands and strong will and a clear vision. Leaders are born of troubled times and while we aren't particularly troubled just yet, we well may be by the time the next election comes around in 2012 and at that time, we will look for that leadership.
Until then, we wait. Diversify, invest in hard assets, stash cash, no consumer debt, or as the Fugio coin said, "Mind your Business"...and mind it well! >>
I suppose I am showing my age again, but with all due respect, George McGovern was the Dem candidate in '72. He was no leader at all and was nearly the biggest loser in the history of Presidential elections. He didn't even win his own state and only received 17 electoral votes, winning only one state (Massachusetts) and the District of Columbia. He lost 520-17 in the Electoral College. Only Walter Mondale lost worse in '84 by getting only 13 votes in the E.C.
There may be a leader out there, time will tell. Ronald Reagan remains the last of such men to come to the forefront. FDR? Please, he is primarily responsible for the socialist nature of our current national policies. Kennedy wasn't really much of a leader, but he was around at a time of crisis, he is mostly remembered for his surprising tax cuts and the Cuban missile crisis. The fact the he was cut down 3 years into his first term has given him a status he likely would never have achieved had he lived. It's widely accepted that it was unlikely he would have won re-election in '64.
This current crop of candidates doesn't appear to contain a man/woman who can unite us. Fred Thompson may be the only one, he does have that sort of charisma, but it will be difficult for him to rise above the din. Our current media is so shallow and left leaning that we are doomed to being showered with the likes of Hillary and Rudy 24/7. The next election is next year, 2008. I hope we don't have to wait till 2012 for strong leadership. Sometimes I wonder just who really is pulling the strings. GW Bush has been doing exactly the opposite of his track record as Governor of Texas and has been the biggest disappointment, at least in my eyes, since Jimmy Carter. I knew what to expect from Slick Willy, so he wasn't that much of a disappointment. He just continued his string of corruption as he had done in Arkansas.
I think we are on our own and we are headed for much more troubling times. Minding our own business and minding it well is good advice as we have no real leadership anymore. Those who have the right ideas, guarding our borders, keeping our military strong, keeping our culture intact, etc. have almost no chance as we head into this next election. Sadly, the destruction of the best health care in the world seems to be on our horizon.
This thread has been filled with great advice and some very intelligent minds. It seems we have been right all along and it's been a great ride and a wonderful source of information. I trust it will continue till we are discussing problems and possible solutions all the way to the election of 2012. It's difficult to imagine where we will be by then, I do believe one safe bet is that we will still be in this commodities bull. I hope we are all safe and sound and still hashing this out when that time rolls around.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Interesting read. >>
Yes, that was interesting. Some of the percentages in the BLS chart are not what I expected. What the article did miss is the changed demographics of the household statistic. But it cannot address everything in this complex situation. Still, you spend differently when you are an increasingly health failing baby boomer with no kids left to send to college and retirement asset protection as an important consideration that you might when you are doing summer fmaily trips to Yellowstone in the stationwagon in an internet devoid three TV network world.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers).
On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now.
<< <i>Yep, deadhorse, you're old...it's good to be old. I liked the guys I mentioned, but that's just me and we all are gifted with our own opinions; no harm, no foul. Oh, yes...FDR's social security act of 1935 was a brilliant piece of legislation along with the WPA, CCC and other efforts to make us whole again. Call him right, call him wrong but he was a very strong leader. You could say Kennedy wasn't a great leader...unless of course you were trying to smuggle icbm's into Cuba. We do seem to be suffering a lack of leadership for '08 so surely '12 is the next best chance. I do forsee the emergence of a strong personality in the next few years. We have our political opinions and I shouldn't have posted mine because that's not why we are doing this thread and I will refrain from any politically tinged discourse in the future. This is just not the right place for that. >>
Oh, I don't think we can really separate politics from a thread like this. No, it shouldn't be the defining central point, but it certainly effects the original topic. I agree that FDR was a strong leader, though I liked Truman much more. Social Security is the primary issue I have with FDR. Yes, he did do many things that were needed at the time, but continuing socialism isn't the answer. It's never worked anywhere before and it's slowly ruining us.
Will a true leader step up? I honestly don't know. For now, only Fred Thompson looks to fit that bill. Time will tell, but I fear greatly what we may get in 2008. If it's Hillary, I'll probably retire early or somehow defer my income till she's gone.
FWIW, I voted for and worked for McGovern, that was the first time I could vote as the age was lowered to 18 from 21. Since then, I've gotten older and a bit wiser and my eyes were finally open by that next election. You have to admit, the peanut farmer was a disaster.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5%
However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers).
On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now. >>
The highest tax brackets we've seen were under Carter, 90% for the CEO types. Today it is around 40%, not 33%. I pay around 33% and I'm hardly in the top 1%. When you add on SS, medicare, propery, and all the hidden fees and taxes, I am already paying around 55% at last count.
Considering all the hidden taxes we now have, I tend to think the average guy is paying much more than in 1970.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
If you ask how all the people you know over 55 who live north of the mason dixon line, how many of them had central AC as a child and how many have it now, you will most likely find that virtually all have it now, and few had it as children. We are living better IMHO. The good old days are now.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>If you ask how all the people you know over 55 who live north of the mason dixon line, how many of them had central AC as a child and how many have it now, you will most likely find that virtually all have it now, and few had it as children. We are living better IMHO. The good old days are now. >>
That statement applies nationwide, not just north of the Mason Dixon Line. For example, few homes anywhere in Texas had central AC up through the 60s. It was only in the early to mid 70s that the average new homes were built that way. There were also lots of retrofits to older homes being done at the same time. When the Astrodome was built, people lined up as early as possible and stayed till they were asked to leave. As many people went for the AC as they did for the games back then. Even window units were rare in the 50s and 60s.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
> Considering all the hidden taxes we now have, I tend to think the average guy is paying much more than in 1970.
I was only talking about the Federal Income Tax. The other items you mentioned would have been tacked onto Federal Income tax whether it was 1970 or 2007. Unless they were grossly higher or lower, their impact would be roughly the same regardless of year.
You are correct about the top rate today; it is 39.6% However, the top tax rate during Carter's term was 70%, not 90%.
The bottom bracket in 1970 was taxed at 14%. Today it is 15%.
Contrast these rates with the "Golden Years" of American economic dominance. From 1954 to 1963 the top rate was 91%, and the lowest rate was 20%
If you are in an certain age group...God Help You!
<< <i>It's Hillary. The Ron Paulludites are going to see to that. And they are incapable to seeing the irony therein, that by voting for him and thus electing Hillary, they are guaranteed to get precisely what they CLAIM to despise, government control of every miniscule aspect of their lives. They just are incapable of thinking it through, just want to feel good about their empty statement. >>
You think Guilianni's gonna save us? LOL!
Amen, brother.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>The BabyBoomers worst Nightmare is going to be HEALTHCARE!!!!! Healthcare will be everyones nightmare, more than anything else....Medicare will revise and insurance companies will revise as to what they will cover and will not cover...they will be in it for the money and what they can save for themselves and the Patient is screwed....It will only lead to poor medical care across the board....many deaths that should not be!
If you are in an certain age group...God Help You! >>
No worries if we take a few tips from the Medical Paradise of the North, as quite a few forumites think we should
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Camelot
Link
The link includes a link to a Business Week article with this quote: "In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems."
<< <i>The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5%
However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.
The highest tax bracket, the one the CEO's would be subject to, decreased from 70% in 1970 to the current 33% (rough numbers).
On the other hand, tax rates on the average guy in 1970 are roughly the same as they are now. >>
How much is the average Hollywood actor's or sports figure's wages increased to the average man since the 70's?
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HOME SALES FALL 48.5 PCT IN SEPT FROM YEAR EARLIER, according to DATAQUICK - Reuters
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HOME SALES FALL 29.9 PCT IN SEPT FROM AUGUST, according to DATAQUICK
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I think a lot of this has to do with a shortage of doctors. Why would a Canadian stay in Canada and make a decent salary when he/she can live in the USA and make an excellant salary? There are just not enough doctors up north. I doubt we would see a decline in healthcare with a nationalized system. For all intents purpose we already have it---just go to the emergency room at your local hospital and you will see it full of non-emergency patients. People go there for a runny nose because they dont have health insurance or their insurance only covers them if they are seen in an emergency room. You--the taxpayer--picks up the tab. The system is bogged down. >>
Bingo! we already have it, and it sure isn't working very well. I had one of my technicians go to the emergency room a few months back with a broken hand. Since it was deemed 'non emergency' he had to wait in a huge line with illegal immigrants using the emergency room as their local doctor. This is a large county hospital that was almost closed down two years ago from too much debt. The illegal immigrants were using the emergency room for every cough and sniffle, and of course not paying their bills. The county had to have a ballot measure to keep it open, which raised sales taxes in the Phoenix area a half-penny; i wouldn't really have cared if it would stay open, but it was the only level 1 burn trauma unit in the area, and it would have been a great loss to use that unit located inside the hospital. Maricopa County is the fifth largest county in America, and we pay a ton of money in taxes to keep hospitals open, and bail them out when the uninsured (especially illegal immigrants) either can't pay their bills, or never have any intention of paying due to lack of legal paperwork and providing false information/addresses.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
“The hourly wage of the average American is slightly lower now than it was in 1970, about -5%
However, pay of the average CEO has increased around 1000%. In 1970 it was less than 30 times the average pay, and is now almost 300 times the average pay.”
I wish I knew where all these numbers come from?
During the recent negotiations with the UAW the news reported that the average UAW worker made $76.00 per hour with benefits. I am the CEO of my small company and I am making $43.75 per hour and have not had a raise in 6 years.
“ Interesting read.”
COHODK,
I wonder why none of these writers point out that the reason everyone’s wallets are empty is because we pay 60% of our income in Taxes.
Just for a little fun I bought a used Harley a few weeks back. Paid $10,000 for it, and registered it today and paid $713 in sales Taxes.
This in this morning, sent to me by a friend who was in high school in 1955. In all of Human history have things ever changed so drastically?
"I'll tell you one thing, if things keep going the way they are, it's going to be impossible to buy a week's groceries for $20."
"Have you seen the new cars coming out next year? It won't be long before $2000 will only buy a used one."
"If cigarettes keep going up in price, I'm going to quit. A quarter a pack is ridiculous."
"Did you hear the post office is thinking about charging a dime just to mail a letter?"
"If they raise the minimum wage to $1, nobody will be able to hire outside help at the store."
"When I first started driving, who would have thought gas would someday cost 29 cents a gallon. Guess we'd be better off leaving the car in the garage."
I’m afraid to send my kids to the movies any more. Ever since they let Clark Gable get by with saying 'damn' in 'Gone With The Wind,' it seems every new movie has either "hell" or "damn" in it.
"Did you see where some baseball player just signed a contract for $75,000 a year just to play ball? It wouldn't surprise me if someday they'll be making more than the president."
"It's too bad things are so tough nowadays.
I see where a few married women are having to work to make ends meet."
"It won't be long before young couples are going to have to hire someone to watch their kids so they can both work."
"Thank goodness I won't live to see the day when Governments take half our income in taxes. I sometimes wonder if we are electing the best people to government."
"There is no sense going to Lincoln or Omaha anymore for a weekend. It costs nearly $15 a night to stay in a hotel"
"No one can afford to be sick any more; $35 a day in the hospital is too rich for my blood."
"If they think I'll pay 50 cents for a hair cut, forget it."
<< <i>
<< <i>I think a lot of this has to do with a shortage of doctors. Why would a Canadian stay in Canada and make a decent salary when he/she can live in the USA and make an excellant salary? There are just not enough doctors up north. I doubt we would see a decline in healthcare with a nationalized system. For all intents purpose we already have it---just go to the emergency room at your local hospital and you will see it full of non-emergency patients. People go there for a runny nose because they dont have health insurance or their insurance only covers them if they are seen in an emergency room. You--the taxpayer--picks up the tab. The system is bogged down. >>
Bingo! we already have it, and it sure isn't working very well. I had one of my technicians go to the emergency room a few months back with a broken hand. Since it was deemed 'non emergency' he had to wait in a huge line with illegal immigrants using the emergency room as their local doctor. This is a large county hospital that was almost closed down two years ago from too much debt. The illegal immigrants were using the emergency room for every cough and sniffle, and of course not paying their bills. The county had to have a ballot measure to keep it open, which raised sales taxes in the Phoenix area a half-penny; i wouldn't really have cared if it would stay open, but it was the only level 1 burn trauma unit in the area, and it would have been a great loss to use that unit located inside the hospital. Maricopa County is the fifth largest county in America, and we pay a ton of money in taxes to keep hospitals open, and bail them out when the uninsured (especially illegal immigrants) either can't pay their bills, or never have any intention of paying due to lack of legal paperwork and providing false information/addresses. >>
But Hey it is worth it for 20 cents off the price of lettice is it not? Come on, John McCain thinks it is grand.
Yeah, lets see what Fox news has to say.
Social Security is the primary issue I have with FDR. Yes, he did do many things that were needed at the time, but continuing socialism isn't the answer. It's never worked anywhere before and it's slowly ruining us.
Wow..............the most successful government program in US history and you’ve got a problem with it? The only program that has kept millions of people from living in gutters and becoming a complete burden on their offspring and society. I guess you made your money and everyone else should too.
I could go on and on, but lets not. Please stay on topic!
GOLD AND SILVER WORLD NEWS, ECONOMIC PREDICTIONS
The political / religious digressions don't bother me at all-- they are inevitable in discussions like this. As long as the AD HOMINEM attacks are avoided, it's OK-- just read past the stuff you don't like.
Per coxe above:
<< <i>Yes, we need more doctors and other high-talent professionals. We are getting them from places like India but we sure need more of them than lettuce pickers and house painters. (We have minimum security prisoners we could tap for that detail in a pinch.) >>
I am in full time family practice and teach/train FP residents part-time instead of playing golf, for the last 15 years. In the last 5 years, our program of 12 doctors/ year has seen a drastic change demographically. The number of American-trained MDs applying for slots in the program has dwindled to a trickle, and we basically now have to have ENGLISH classes and America inculturation training sessions BEFORE even beginning to broach the complexities of modern primary care. And sorry folks, these International graduates, are not as intelligent across the board as legend may have it.
Primary care is becoming as desirable as menial labor, for what one has to invest in it, and then get out of it. America's best aren't choosing it. Here are the first names of our newest intern class:
Tahanie
Mohammed
Aida
Allison
Seetha
Yu
Sarah
Tahira
Tim
Rabeya
Adric
Natavan
Arielle (extra spot given for last minute match)
I look forward to reading this thread, especially as it concerns the PM market. I still haven't dove in with gold, but definitely watching things more closely and trying to 'read the book.'
Don
<< <i>I have been reading this thread for about 6 months and feel like have received a free education in practical economics. Honestly, I feel like a mental midget when it comes to a lot of what the 'regulars' are talking about, but it makes me do some research and for that I thank you. I have read Gary North for a long time, but not nec. his gold buggery, more of his theological tomes.
The political / religious digressions don't bother me at all-- they are inevitable in discussions like this. As long as the AD HOMINEM attacks are avoided, it's OK-- just read past the stuff you don't like.
Per coxe above:
<< <i>Yes, we need more doctors and other high-talent professionals. We are getting them from places like India but we sure need more of them than lettuce pickers and house painters. (We have minimum security prisoners we could tap for that detail in a pinch.) >>
I am in full time family practice and teach/train FP residents part-time instead of playing golf, for the last 15 years. In the last 5 years, our program of 12 doctors/ year has seen a drastic change demographically. The number of American-trained MDs applying for slots in the program has dwindled to a trickle, and we basically now have to have ENGLISH classes and America inculturation training sessions BEFORE even beginning to broach the complexities of modern primary care. And sorry folks, these International graduates, are not as intelligent across the board as legend may have it.
Primary care is becoming as desirable as menial labor, for what one has to invest in it, and then get out of it. America's best aren't choosing it. Here are the first names of our newest intern class:
Tahanie
Mohammed
Aida
Allison
Seetha
Yu
Sarah
Tahira
Tim
Rabeya
Adric
Natavan
Arielle (extra spot given for last minute match)
I look forward to reading this thread, especially as it concerns the PM market. I still haven't dove in with gold, but definitely watching things more closely and trying to 'read the book.'
Don >>
it has been this way for years..speacialists, too what's in a name? just because billy-bob ain't there or tiffany doesn't mean they ain't good....grammar intentional
what are "America's best" choosing?
<< <i>
<< <i>Comparing our fudged stats for GDP growth and unemployment to other countries is like apples to oranges. >>
That's right!! There is no comparison. The EU Countries are stagnating and Socialism is choking them off. If you are trying to say that the Europeans are better off than we are, then you're in denial of the facts.
<< <i> The unemployment number should probably be closer to 10% than 5% if you count the people who are capable of working but are not working. >>
What???? Now you're just making stuff up. Where in the world do you get a statistic like that? If we had an unemployment rate of 10% this country would be in a serious economic crisis. I've lived in Fla. during many of the economic booms and the employment rate would never get any lower than 4-4.5%. Even when jobs were plentiful, the rate never wants to break this barrier. You have a certain number of people who will not work, period, and then you have the people in between jobs. A 4-5% unemployment rate is considered by some to be full employment. Or as full as you will ever get.
Oh, Maybe Germany is fudging their numbers also and their actual unemployment rate is closer to 15%???? Who knows??
My point was, we are much better off in this country than the rest of the worlds population and I get tired of the doom and gloomers saying we are the verge of an economic collapse. I'll tell you something else!! If this country goes down financially, then we will be taking the rest of the world with us. The gold bugs can amass all the gold they want. But you can't eat gold.
One other thing about the dollar. Believe me when it is in the interests of the rest of the world to stop the fall of the dollar they'll start buying dollars to prop it up. It is definitely not in their interest to have a weak dollar. We are nearing that point now. The Europeans are now starting to buy more US goods because of the weak dollar. Talk to someone in NY City. People are flying in there to load up on US goods. On the flip side, American tourists are buying virtually nothing when traveling overseas because there products are to expensive.
China will start buying dollars, because the products they manufacture will start to become to expensive. A weak dollar is great for our exporters. The ones we have left, that is.
Sorry if I'm rambling....I'm tired. >>
Elwood you said that in 2004. And the guy he said it to is still making stuff up
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Seems to me that that this thread has done exactly that, predicted where gold and silver were going. 90% of the pundits here would never have thunk gold over $400....let alone $750. Not much to laugh about there. Dig back to several years and you'll find references to the now infamous liquidity/derivatives mess. If the thread enabled just one more person to help them better plan through the current problems we face, it did its job. The true irony of it is that we've only seen the tip of the problems so far. Things will get far worse before they get better.
roadrunner
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Any more key news from the Heritage Foundation to spew forth here? Or would today's worst ever TIC report (-$163 Billion trade deficit) tend to counter the bogus charts you posted above. But I will admit the pretty colors and clarity of the charts would have gotten the attention of a 4th grader. Oh, I guess that's how you first noticed it. Kindly take your sniveling to a forum that cares.
So sorry that the Open "OK Corral" Forum is no longer available for your tiresome antics. Hey "Dude," that term went out with Ashton Kutcher on punked. Not hip, just rude.
roadrunner
George Bernard Shaw