I personally know of 2 illegals that are going back to their home country--in Europe-- because they cant find work in California.
Just providing anecdotal evidence that the story is not completely false. If I know of 2 then I am sure there are alot more. Are others coming in, most likely, but perhaps the tide is slowing.
China still faces “grim” job conditions with registered unemployment climbing and new jobs shrinking compared with a year earlier, the State Council said last week
...sparking concern the economy may slip back into the kind of deflationary malaise that caused wages to fall by about 10 percent in the decade through 2005. Workers at the country’s biggest companies will have their summer bonuses cut by a record 19.4 percent this year, according to a survey by business-lobby Keidanren
The world wants US debt. Huge foreign indirect interest....
30-year bond auction results: High Yield 4.720% (expectations were around 4.8%); Bid/Cover 2.68x; Indirect Bidders 49%
The bid/cover measures the demand for the debt being issued. All the bids (competitive/noncompetitive) divided by the amount accepted... The indirect bidders figure is indicative of foreign participation in the auction for U.S. debt
Isn't it possible that the USTreasury spent whatever good will and future capital needed to ensure that this auction went well? If it comes down to defending the UST bond and USDollars won't the treasuries win?
<< <i>Isn't it possible that the USTreasury spent whatever good will and future capital needed to ensure that this auction went well? If it comes down to defending the UST bond and USDollars won't the treasuries win?
roadrunner >>
I dont think so. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, if we can get rates higher then buyers will come out of the woodwork. Another 100 bps and I think we will be "golden". This will be just enough to keep investors and savers happy while keeping the economy from over heating.
They talk of higher rates choking off any real estate recovery. First, there was never going to be a "recovery" anyway. Stability is the best we could hope for. Second, if potential buyers cant afford a near historic low rate of 6.5%, then they shouldnt be in the market in the first place. My mortgage from 2002 is 6.375%. Current rates are still exceptionally low.
These higher rates of 5-6% will also put a lot of stress on the 4 major bank's Interest Rate Swaps (JPM, Citi, GS, BoA). We may not be able to get to 6-6.5% w/o another major bank or two imploding.
Sinclair has raised the notion that all is not right with the Comex warehouse. And that also brings into play any oddities in any of the programs that warehouse gold for clients. The BRICs are out buying gold while western nations dump it. Germany and others now want their gold back in their own possession. Sinclair has recently noted that big firms are quietly performing bullion audits for the first time in who knows how long. I wonder who is driving that, the corporation or outside influences? Today he mentions issues from Comex clients on breakdowns in the delivery process. :
For decades warehouses have held, but rarely delivered as compared to store. When examined closely it is a paper system that may have fallen badly behind as gold moved ahead since 2001. There is a possibility the system is antiquated and more FUBAR than anyone, even the warehouses themselves, realize. I have been told that bars delivered do not correspond with the receipts from exchanges. I have been told that bars of slightly different weight (higher) have been received. This may well be a system that has never been asked to handle volumes as are now taking place. This may well be like the old hand clearing equity systems that broke down as volume of trading increased in the early 70s. .....see link below for full article.
That old hand clearing system eventually resulted in the failure of a number of brokers and no doubt big problems for customers. When things hit the fan, can you get to your warehoused or vaulted bullion or to your "electronic" stock certificates to prove ownership? While some dismiss JS because his timing is sometimes off or he keeps saying "this is it," one can't deny that he has been calling most every major problem/issue/event in the financial system and markets long before they have hit mainstream. He continues to point out weak links in the bullion markets that will eventually widen the gap between the pog and the paper charts. As the months advance additional oddities keep popping up in the gold and financial markets but are dismissed immediately by the mainstream by simply using the words "you crazy gold bugs!" Hey, its worked for nearly 40 years, why not keep using it?
On a different topic -- a while back, I mentioned the "national health insurance litmus test". This says very simply that if we move towards national health care without fully funding it, stagflation is inevitable. The Presidents speech today seems to make it quite clear that this is the intent. (anyone who believes that we can pay for national health insurance by closing loopholes, taxing the rich, improving efficiencies, etc. is delusional)
<< <i>On a different topic -- a while back, I mentioned the "national health insurance litmus test". This says very simply that if we move towards national health care without fully funding it, stagflation is inevitable. The Presidents speech today seems to make it quite clear that this is the intent. (anyone who believes that we can pay for national health insurance by closing loopholes, taxing the rich, improving efficiencies, etc. is delusional) >>
IF it is fully funded via BHO plan, the health care for the elderly will diminish tremendously by placing limits on procedures and care on a scale of recovery and age. (it's already in the proposed plan) not these words verbatim, but something not so different from what you'd do with a lame horse behind the barn.
R&D will drop both in the pharamcutical and technology.
possibly preventative health care will improve (for those who do go a doctor...or can find one).
more vices will become legal and therefore taxed to support health care
the biggest delusion is that health insurance companies are making money hand over fist now.
National heathcare SEEMS like a grand idea. Until you peel away the layers of the onion. It will always seem like a gift for people who have zip.
I do not want to write a disertation on the pros and cons on a gold forum but if you have any sense, please contact your Congressman and exert all the pressure you are capable of.
Let's put it this way, ASK any VET if he would recommend the Veterans Administration Heathcare for his children or grand children. Case closed.
I read an interesting article that John Maudlin last week that showed that the nations of the EU and Canada had a health care system that cost quite a bit less than ours while their longevity numbers were higher....on the order of 2-3 years (78 USA vs. 79-82 in other industrialized Western nations). While those other nations probably don't spend the amount of money that we do to extend life an additional few months for cancer and other terminal illnessess they still get adequate enough care to get a couple of more years of life than we do. Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers? Is our quality of life so great for those 78 years that it beats the heck out of living to 80-82 in Europe and Canada? It's always seemed pointless to me to spend a huge portion of our health care costs in terminal stages of disease. Why can't we find a "Logan's Run" type machine? I for one would rather pass on the final 2-4 months of pain and hospice care and cash in the chips earlier.
<< <i>I read an interesting article that John Maudlin last week that showed that the nations of the EU and Canada had a health care system that cost quite a bit less than ours while their longevity numbers were higher....on the order of 2-3 years (78 USA vs. 79-82 in other industrialized Western nations). While those other nations probably don't spend the amount of money that we do to extend life an additional few months for cancer and other terminal illnessess they still get adequate enough care to get a couple of more years of life than we do. Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers? Is our quality of life so great for those 78 years that it beats the heck out of living to 80-82 in Europe and Canada? It's always seemed pointless to me to spend a huge portion of our health care costs in terminal stages of disease. Why can't we find a "Logan's Run" type machine? I for one would rather pass on the final 2-4 months of pain and hospice care and cash in the chips earlier.
roadrunner >>
That is true and the goverment will make your chocie for you just like Canada does. What's not seen is the vast people for Canada getting advanced care here since they can't get it in their country accounting for some of that time. Quality of life means more to me than quanity of life in pain. Maybe a basic care package for the masses along with a 5k out of pocket plus some out of your pocket each month wouldn't be a bad comprise.
<< <i>ASK any VET if he would recommend the Veterans Administration Heathcare for his children or grand children. Case closed. >>
Ask any person who has no healthcare and cannot afford the 1000+ a month if they would like to have the VET care for free.
I am no fan of socialized anything but right now we have a broken system based on wealth and greed for drug companies, administrators lawyers. Millions get government paid medical, seniors, GM retirees, govt workers, retired workers etc. Everyone else gets screwed and the govt overpays billions.
The system needs to be fixed, unfortunately whenever the democrats fix something it just gets worse.
So this is not the National HealthCare Forum.
Did anyone read Jim Willies article on Interest Rate swaps? Just when I thought it was safe to buy BofA Calls.
This other news story just came up I found it interesting! The dollar is very vulnerable to any further shocks in the global financial world. Such as any country found to be dumping their dollar holdings. A case in point is the $150 billion in U.S. bonds found by Italian authorities, trying to be smuggled into Switzerland this past week. Its surmised that these bonds originated in Japan, and that they where sereptitiously trying to get them to Switzerland to dump them without alarming the global markets. Price (asset) deflation will continue as evidenced by the U.S. housing market, while price inflation strikes the consumer led by higher food and energy costs.
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
The dollar is very vulnerable to any further shocks in the global financial world. Such as any country found to be dumping their dollar holdings. A case in point is the $150 billion in U.S. bonds found by Italian authorities, trying to be smuggled into Switzerland this past week. Its surmised that these bonds originated in Japan, and that they where sereptitiously trying to get them to Switzerland to dump them without alarming the global markets. Price (asset) deflation will continue as evidenced by the U.S. housing market, while price inflation strikes the consumer led by higher food and energy costs. The dollar will continue to lose ground. Jun 14 12:23 PM | Link | Reply 00
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
RR that is very true the last couple of months can be 50% of the TOTAL outlay (lifetime cost) for a persons health care. I am NOT an advocate of euthanasia..though
Millions get government paid medical, seniors, GM retirees, govt workers, retired workers etc. Everyone else gets screwed and the govt overpays billions.Text
And please don't forget the Millions (with a large capital S) of Illegal aliens that our government has mandated that our hospitals serve, though no monies are given to provide for the expense. And you wonder why our health care system/insurance costs so much. Its because they have to make the moniesback on those who do pay to compensate for the masses of illegal aliens whom don't pay and have no insurance. The system is boken but there is more to it than you are mentioning.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
<< <i>On a different topic -- a while back, I mentioned the "national health insurance litmus test". This says very simply that if we move towards national health care without fully funding it, stagflation is inevitable. The Presidents speech today seems to make it quite clear that this is the intent. (anyone who believes that we can pay for national health insurance by closing loopholes, taxing the rich, improving efficiencies, etc. is delusional) >>
The kind of system our government cobbled together on top of the broken down mess we call health care would surely be even more inefficient and far more costly as more people finally get health care.
I strongly suspect that if we simply used a single payer system and invested in something to take care of the homeless and senseless the savings would be sufficient to provide health care to everyone at lower cost. The doctors would have a say again in treatment of patients and wouldn't have to know any- thing about the many insurance plans or fill out tons of paper- work. Most people would get better care since doctors would have more control.
It's true that those with the best insurance would no longer be getting the best care but insurance has a way of disappearing if you ever really need it anyway.
Perhaps I'm off base here since I've never known you to be really wrong. Or perhaps you're just envisioning the same night- mare of a frakenstein's monster that I am. No one understands their insurance or premiums or what is covered and not, now,and it would only get far worse.
Cladking -- it is the Frankenstein's monster scenario I'm concerned with. It seems like we are about to embark on a 10 - 15 year very messy and contentious transition from where we are now to a single payer system. I agree with you that there are arguments in support of a single payer system, if it were done right, but I'm not sure if we have the wisdom to get there. I' doubt that a quality plan can credibly be designed by committee, especially a politically charged one.
By the way, in response to a prior question, some of the reasons why the US has higher costs with poorer aggregate outcomes:
(1) Compared to most developed countries, the US has a larger poor population. America's poor have high drug and alcohol use, higher than average levels of smoking, more obesity, higher accident mortality and morbidity, etc. This population has dramatically higher infant morality, lower overall life expectancy, and higher overall morbidity, and materially affects the national averages.
(2) We have far fewer utilization controls (ie, rationing) than do other countries.
(3) We have devoted extensive resources to developing new technologies (surgical techiques, drugs, etc). This is a great thing, but it was definitely been costly.
(4) Compared to a country like Japan, we devote less resources to public health/preventive care.
(5) Litigation and threat of litigation almost certainly increases costs.
<< <i>I read an interesting article that John Maudlin last week that showed that the nations of the EU and Canada had a health care system that cost quite a bit less than ours while their longevity numbers were higher....on the order of 2-3 years (78 USA vs. 79-82 in other industrialized Western nations). While those other nations probably don't spend the amount of money that we do to extend life an additional few months for cancer and other terminal illnessess they still get adequate enough care to get a couple of more years of life than we do. Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers? Is our quality of life so great for those 78 years that it beats the heck out of living to 80-82 in Europe and Canada? It's always seemed pointless to me to spend a huge portion of our health care costs in terminal stages of disease. Why can't we find a "Logan's Run" type machine? I for one would rather pass on the final 2-4 months of pain and hospice care and cash in the chips earlier.
roadrunner >>
Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers?
The answer is actually quite simple. Think demographics.
A case in point is the $150 billion in U.S. bonds found by Italian authorities, trying to be smuggled into Switzerland this past week. Its surmised that these bonds originated in Japan, and that they where sereptitiously trying to get them to Switzerland to dump them without alarming the global markets
How do you know the intention was to sell the bonds?
Just read the story and I find it to be sensational and my opinion is the bonds are fake or are obsolete.
I dont have a opinion one way or the other as to if they were going to sell the bonds or not. I simply posted a news story I found interesting. Please make your own conclusions!
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
Comments
Just providing anecdotal evidence that the story is not completely false. If I know of 2 then I am sure there are alot more. Are others coming in, most likely, but perhaps the tide is slowing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
unofficial page turner
China still faces “grim” job conditions with registered unemployment climbing and new jobs shrinking compared with a year earlier, the State Council said last week
Japan Economy Shrank 14.2% Last Quarter on Exports
...sparking concern the economy may slip back into the kind of deflationary malaise that caused wages to fall by about 10 percent in the decade through 2005. Workers at the country’s biggest companies will have their summer bonuses cut by a record 19.4 percent this year, according to a survey by business-lobby Keidanren
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
30-year bond auction results: High Yield 4.720% (expectations were around 4.8%); Bid/Cover 2.68x; Indirect Bidders 49%
The bid/cover measures the demand for the debt being issued. All the bids (competitive/noncompetitive) divided by the amount accepted... The indirect bidders figure is indicative of foreign participation in the auction for U.S. debt
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
<< <i>Isn't it possible that the USTreasury spent whatever good will and future capital needed to ensure that this auction went well? If it comes down to defending the UST bond and USDollars won't the treasuries win?
roadrunner >>
I dont think so. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, if we can get rates higher then buyers will come out of the woodwork. Another 100 bps and I think we will be "golden". This will be just enough to keep investors and savers happy while keeping the economy from over heating.
They talk of higher rates choking off any real estate recovery. First, there was never going to be a "recovery" anyway. Stability is the best we could hope for. Second, if potential buyers cant afford a near historic low rate of 6.5%, then they shouldnt be in the market in the first place. My mortgage from 2002 is 6.375%. Current rates are still exceptionally low.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
For decades warehouses have held, but rarely delivered as compared to store. When examined closely it is a paper system that may have fallen badly behind as gold moved ahead since 2001. There is a possibility the system is antiquated and more FUBAR than anyone, even the warehouses themselves, realize. I have been told that bars delivered do not correspond with the receipts from exchanges. I have been told that bars of slightly different weight (higher) have been received. This may well be a system that has never been asked to handle volumes as are now taking place. This may well be like the old hand clearing equity systems that broke down as volume of trading increased in the early 70s. .....see link below for full article.
That old hand clearing system eventually resulted in the failure of a number of brokers and no doubt big problems for customers. When things hit the fan, can you get to your warehoused or vaulted bullion or to your "electronic" stock certificates to prove ownership? While some dismiss JS because his timing is sometimes off or he keeps saying "this is it," one can't deny that he has been calling most every major problem/issue/event in the financial system and markets long before they have hit mainstream. He continues to point out weak links in the bullion markets that will eventually widen the gap between the pog and the paper charts. As the months advance additional oddities keep popping up in the gold and financial markets but are dismissed immediately by the mainstream by simply using the words "you crazy gold bugs!" Hey, its worked for nearly 40 years, why not keep using it?
roadrunner
<< <i>On a different topic -- a while back, I mentioned the "national health insurance litmus test". This says very simply that if we move towards national health care without fully funding it, stagflation is inevitable. The Presidents speech today seems to make it quite clear that this is the intent. (anyone who believes that we can pay for national health insurance by closing loopholes, taxing the rich, improving efficiencies, etc. is delusional) >>
IF it is fully funded via BHO plan, the health care for the elderly will diminish tremendously by placing limits on procedures and care on a scale of recovery and age. (it's already in the proposed plan) not these words verbatim, but something not so different from what you'd do with a lame horse behind the barn.
R&D will drop both in the pharamcutical and technology.
possibly preventative health care will improve (for those who do go a doctor...or can find one).
more vices will become legal and therefore taxed to support health care
the biggest delusion is that health insurance companies are making money hand over fist now.
Buy gold and silver.... and keep possession! (well, as long as you can, that is... )
I do not want to write a disertation on the pros and cons on a gold forum but if you have any sense, please contact your Congressman and exert all the pressure you are capable of.
Let's put it this way, ASK any VET if he would recommend the Veterans Administration Heathcare for his children or grand children. Case closed.
roadrunner
<< <i>I read an interesting article that John Maudlin last week that showed that the nations of the EU and Canada had a health care system that cost quite a bit less than ours while their longevity numbers were higher....on the order of 2-3 years (78 USA vs. 79-82 in other industrialized Western nations). While those other nations probably don't spend the amount of money that we do to extend life an additional few months for cancer and other terminal illnessess they still get adequate enough care to get a couple of more years of life than we do. Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers? Is our quality of life so great for those 78 years that it beats the heck out of living to 80-82 in Europe and Canada? It's always seemed pointless to me to spend a huge portion of our health care costs in terminal stages of disease. Why can't we find a "Logan's Run" type machine? I for one would rather pass on the final 2-4 months of pain and hospice care and cash in the chips earlier.
roadrunner >>
That is true and the goverment will make your chocie for you just like Canada does. What's not seen is the vast people for Canada getting advanced care here since they can't get it in their country accounting for some of that time. Quality of life means more to me than quanity of life in pain. Maybe a basic care package for the masses along with a 5k out of pocket plus some out of your pocket each month wouldn't be a bad comprise.
<< <i>ASK any VET if he would recommend the Veterans Administration Heathcare for his children or grand children. Case closed. >>
Ask any person who has no healthcare and cannot afford the 1000+ a month if they would like to have the VET care for free.
I am no fan of socialized anything but right now we have a broken system based on wealth and greed for drug companies, administrators lawyers. Millions get government paid medical, seniors, GM retirees, govt workers, retired workers etc. Everyone else gets screwed and the govt overpays billions.
The system needs to be fixed, unfortunately whenever the democrats fix something it just gets worse.
So this is not the National HealthCare Forum.
Did anyone read Jim Willies article on Interest Rate swaps? Just when I thought it was safe to buy BofA Calls.
Jim Willie
Wasn't this the auction that the FED was going to participate in as a buyer of Treasuries?
Doesn't that make the US Dollar a leveraged financial derivative, now?
What a bogus way to run a banking system.
How long before nobody trusts anybody? Who's manipulating Libor these days?
Sorry for the cynicism, but I really don't want to lose everything I've spent my lifetime saving for. Thus, gold.
I knew it would happen.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Nice find...good primer on the situation at hand with BRIC. This will be interesting to watch for the outcome of the meeting.
Price (asset) deflation will continue as evidenced by the U.S. housing market, while price inflation strikes the consumer led by higher food and energy costs.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Price (asset) deflation will continue as evidenced by the U.S. housing market, while price inflation strikes the consumer led by higher food and energy costs.
The dollar will continue to lose ground. Jun 14 12:23 PM | Link | Reply 00
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Millions get government paid medical, seniors, GM retirees, govt workers, retired workers etc. Everyone else gets screwed and the govt overpays billions.Text
And please don't forget the Millions (with a large capital S) of Illegal aliens that our government has mandated that our hospitals serve, though no monies are given to provide for the expense. And you wonder why our health care system/insurance costs so much. Its because they have to make the moniesback on those who do pay to compensate for the masses of illegal aliens whom don't pay and have no insurance. The system is boken but there is more to it than you are mentioning.
no disagreement, this thing is broken in many ways. i'd probably start with illegal immigartion myself, too
<< <i>On a different topic -- a while back, I mentioned the "national health insurance litmus test". This says very simply that if we move towards national health care without fully funding it, stagflation is inevitable. The Presidents speech today seems to make it quite clear that this is the intent. (anyone who believes that we can pay for national health insurance by closing loopholes, taxing the rich, improving efficiencies, etc. is delusional) >>
The kind of system our government cobbled together on top of
the broken down mess we call health care would surely be even
more inefficient and far more costly as more people finally get
health care.
I strongly suspect that if we simply used a single payer system
and invested in something to take care of the homeless and
senseless the savings would be sufficient to provide health
care to everyone at lower cost. The doctors would have a say
again in treatment of patients and wouldn't have to know any-
thing about the many insurance plans or fill out tons of paper-
work. Most people would get better care since doctors would
have more control.
It's true that those with the best insurance would no longer be
getting the best care but insurance has a way of disappearing
if you ever really need it anyway.
Perhaps I'm off base here since I've never known you to be
really wrong. Or perhaps you're just envisioning the same night-
mare of a frakenstein's monster that I am. No one understands
their insurance or premiums or what is covered and not, now,and
it would only get far worse.
By the way, in response to a prior question, some of the reasons why the US has higher costs with poorer aggregate outcomes:
(1) Compared to most developed countries, the US has a larger poor population. America's poor have high drug and alcohol use, higher than average levels of smoking, more obesity, higher accident mortality and morbidity, etc. This population has dramatically higher infant morality, lower overall life expectancy, and higher overall morbidity, and materially affects the national averages.
(2) We have far fewer utilization controls (ie, rationing) than do other countries.
(3) We have devoted extensive resources to developing new technologies (surgical techiques, drugs, etc). This is a great thing, but it was definitely been costly.
(4) Compared to a country like Japan, we devote less resources to public health/preventive care.
(5) Litigation and threat of litigation almost certainly increases costs.
<< <i>I read an interesting article that John Maudlin last week that showed that the nations of the EU and Canada had a health care system that cost quite a bit less than ours while their longevity numbers were higher....on the order of 2-3 years (78 USA vs. 79-82 in other industrialized Western nations). While those other nations probably don't spend the amount of money that we do to extend life an additional few months for cancer and other terminal illnessess they still get adequate enough care to get a couple of more years of life than we do. Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers? Is our quality of life so great for those 78 years that it beats the heck out of living to 80-82 in Europe and Canada? It's always seemed pointless to me to spend a huge portion of our health care costs in terminal stages of disease. Why can't we find a "Logan's Run" type machine? I for one would rather pass on the final 2-4 months of pain and hospice care and cash in the chips earlier.
roadrunner >>
Is that because of a more healthy lifestyle and far less stress than the US? Anyone have any answers?
The answer is actually quite simple. Think demographics.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
How do you know the intention was to sell the bonds?
Just read the story and I find it to be sensational and my opinion is the bonds are fake or are obsolete.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Durbin cashed out during big stock collapse