DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year, retires at 50 with a pension of 90% of his salary? I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge?
as you can see the average firefighter makes around 50K, less than the average teacher in OC, California. I know of a few who have tried to get in and the waiting lists are huge.
<< <i>DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year, retires at 50 with a pension of 90% of his salary? I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge? >>
There was an article in todays Sun Sentinel which is out of Ft Lauderdale showing that some police in Ft Lauderdale have been making more than the average person, just in OVERTIME pay!
Lots of those baaaaad pot smokers and growers to lock up!
coynclector as you can see the average firefighter makes around 50K, less than the average teacher in OC, California. I know of a few who have tried to get in and the waiting lists are huge.
April 24, 2006 There's A Reason They Line Up For Firefighter Jobs... Steve Greenhut posted this earlier today over at Orange Punch:
During the debate over Measure D, pitting firefighters against deputies in the pursuit of tax dollars, firefighters got mad at me for printing (from their own budget) the reality that the average firefighter in Orange County earns $175,000 a year in salary and benefits. Now, check out this report from the LA Daily News, and we see the greed isn't confined to the OC:
"Despite two years of trying to trim lucrative overtime pay for city firefighters, more than a dozen pulled in $100,000, or more, in OT last year, a Daily News analysis shows.
"Fifteen of the 17 firefighters earned more in overtime pay than their base salaries, and two made more than $175,000 in OT that bumped their gross pay to more than $268,000 - about $5,000 more than their boss, Chief William Bamattre.
"With base pay, OT and other pay and bonuses, firefighters and their bosses accounted for nearly two-thirds of the 100 city workers who earned more than $200,000 last year, records show ___________________________________________________
These are the facts from TWO years ago. They make more now. Wahoo...I wonder if they buy gold for security or they just sit by the pool and let us poor schlubs pay for their retirement fun?
Answer, they just sit by the pool and let us poor schlubs pay for their retirement fun?
add edit: March 27th, 2007, 10:19 am · 7 Comments · posted by by Alan Bock, Register editorial writer From Steven Greenhut:
A chart from the Orange County Business Council looking at housing costs in relation to incomes reported, in Monday’s Register, that the median local home price is $711,000, with the typical annual firefighter income of about $53,000. Just to set the record straight: Based on a close look at the OC Fire Authority budget — confirmed by the firefighter union — the average total compensation package for an OC firefighter is a whopping $175,000 a year. I don’t know how OCBC came up with these numbers. But often salary numbers that make it seem as if public employees earn a pittance tend to a) exclude cushy benefits (i.e., 100 percent retirements in the early 50s), include part-time workers in the average and c) exclude overtime, even though the unions rig the game so that their members can maximize their overtime pay. No wonder there are several thousand applicants for every firefighter job that becomes available.
OK, so big O and the brain trust decided that if the economy was bad that folk would work longer, maybe till they are 70 (like the article last year) and forego retiring early at 62. This would keep money pouring in to the treasury and would keep from having to pay out the benefits to the boomers, at least for a while. Wrong, people decided it wasn't going to get better so after getting laid off, they filed for their social security at the first opportunity. Now, the unemployment is high, folk are filing for their benefits and the money isn't coming in, it's going out. The boomers want their money and they want it now. The govt. is out of money without the cash cow. Hummmmmmmmmmmmm...
Author suggests that CPI is not a good measuring tool of true inflation or even price stability. He also notes that steady or lowering prices at the lower end of the production scale are not "proof" that significant inflation is absent from the economy (ie. look at the 1920's and 1980's to 1990's). The CPI was a better monitor of inflation using the 1980 model.
Clive paints a pretty bearish picture with some legitimate substantiation. But I'm not convinced that this TARP recovery can't be extended with a few more TRILLION tossed at it. I'd like to hear his views on what could be coming next for gold and silver. It makes sense that a stall in the S&P will be timed with a recovery in the $USD and $USTB. At all 3 seem like they could make that happen right now. In that environment I don't see PM strength continuing.
Author suggests that CPI is not a good measuring tool of true inflation or even price stability. He also notes that steady or lowering prices at the lower end of the production scale are not "proof" that significant inflation is absent from the economy (ie. look at the 1920's and 1980's to 1990's). The CPI was a better monitor of inflation using the 1980 model.
Clive paints a pretty bearish picture with some legitimate substantiation. But I'm not convinced that this TARP recovery can't be extended with a few more TRILLION tossed at it. I'd like to hear his views on what could be coming next for gold and silver. It makes sense that a stall in the S&P will be timed with a recovery in the $USD and $USTB. At all 3 seem like they could make that happen right now. In that environment I don't see PM strength continuing.
When adjusted for inflation, it's 1966 all over again.
roadrunner >>
Roadrunner,
Am I reading this chart correctly?Inflation adjusted price of gold Gold is 1973 levels when adjusted for inflation? Up nicely since 1971, but if gold was allowed to float in 1971 it probably would have been twice as much anyway , ie $70.
I think both charts illustrate my assertion that ALL assets classes have their day in the sun, but ALL suck as long term investments. One needs to rotate among assets over their lifetimes to truely get ahead. Unfortunately for many the rotation become apparent only after one has doubled and one has halved. Maybe this is PM's time, maybe it is another asset. Hopefully we'll all be able to check back in in 20 years.
<< <i>DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year, retires at 50 with a pension of 90% of his salary? I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge? >>
You can even get these guys' names and pay from the web....LOL
Name Rank in 08 08 Base pay 08 Special pay 08 Overtime pay 08 Gross pay RODRIGUEZ, MARK S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $88,225 $12,339 $109,842 $210,406 Details HUTNYAN, ROBERT J FIRE CAPTAIN $104,563 $31,588 $107,822 $243,973 Details VANDERHAGEN, JOHN L FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,500 $13,597 $100,693 $205,790 Details FINNEY, JEFFREY A FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,498 $14,159 $99,232 $204,889 Details HOSBURG JR, GREGORY LOUIS FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,395 $27,241 $94,352 $206,988 Details BUCHANAN, KENNETH W FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $90,085 $7,605 $94,166 $191,856 Details CANDELARIA, STEVEN D FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $84,996 $10,412 $90,093 $185,501 Details OWEN, JIM M FIREFIGHTER $81,895 $27,522 $86,119 $195,536 Details SELLARS, JAY S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $86,644 $7,378 $82,725 $176,747 Details MAC KENZIE, DAVID J FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,145 $9,451 $81,705 $176,302 Details LOVELESS, THOMAS A FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $88,660 $11,524 $81,125 $181,309 Details HUBERT, JEFFREY S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,168 $11,524 $81,014 $177,706 Details WALKER, PAUL F FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $89,514 $11,524 $80,294 $181,331 Details MC DAIRMANT, SCOTT K FIRE CAPTAIN $107,313 $17,428 $76,773 $201,514 Details ADAMS, JEFFREY D FIRE CAPTAIN $99,832 $14,548 $76,659 $191,038 Details ASHBY, COLTON B FIRE CAPTAIN $105,470 $14,298 $76,327 $196,095 Details VENTURA, RICHARD A FIRE CAPTAIN $104,957 $19,340 $76,139 $200,437 Details MEAR, HARRY M FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $86,312 $11,524 $75,727 $173,563 Details SAGE IV, FREDERICK H FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,299 $17,360 $75,546 $184,205 Details JAMES, ROBERT W FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,817 $27,460 $75,380 $194,657 Details
Employees at the Univ of California do quite well also....
Campus Employee Name Title Gross Pay BERKELEY TEDFORD, JEFF HEAD COACH-INTERCOLG ATHLETICS $2,831,653.50 Details SAN FRANCISCO LEBOIT, PHILIP E PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $1,979,361.78 Details SAN FRANCISCO MCCALMONT, TIMOTHY H PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $1,945,717.31 Details LOS ANGELES BUSUTTIL, RONALD W PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $1,570,896.82 Details LOS ANGELES SHEMIN, RICHARD J PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $1,195,837.17 Details LOS ANGELES TABSH, KHALIL M HS CLIN PROF-MEDCOMP-A $1,048,891.00 Details BERKELEY BRAUN, BEN HEAD COACH-INTERCOLG ATHLETICS $998,569.07 Details SAN FRANCISCO VAIL, THOMAS P ACT PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $846,083.00 Details UCOP BERGGREN, MARIE N TREASURER OF THE REGENTS $833,437.18 Details SAN DIEGO WEINREB, ROBERT N. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $804,341.04 Details SAN DIEGO JAMIESON, STUART W PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $786,095.03 Details SAN DIEGO SCHANZLIN, DAVID J. PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $783,964.24 Details LOS ANGELES BECKER, DONALD P PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $760,062.52 Details SAN FRANCISCO PRUSINER, STANLEY B PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $741,086.46 Details SAN FRANCISCO AZAKIE, ANTHONY ASSOC PROF IN RES-MEDCOMP-A $731,243.40 Details DAVIS MUIZELAAR, JAN PAUL PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $713,268.59 Details SAN DIEGO BRENNER, DAVID ALLEN VICE CHAN (FUNCTIONAL AREA) $696,500.00 Details DAVIS KIM, KEE D ASSOC PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $684,783.15 Details LOS ANGELES GITNICK, GARY L PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $674,932.68 Details LOS ANGELES ENZMANN, DIETER R. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $673,704.98 Details SAN DIEGO MOOSSA, ABDOOL RAHIM PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $660,131.15 Details SAN FRANCISCO ASCHER, NANCY L PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $657,286.46 Details LOS ANGELES VINUELA, FERNANDO STAFF RES ASSOC II-NONEXEMPT $653,379.44 Details IRVINE HOYT, DAVID BUTLER PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $649,999.97 Details SAN DIEGO GARFIN, STEVEN R. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $639,029.00 Details
rr, I find Clive Maunde's "Charts of the Day" to be quite telling. Simple measurements of value, time-tested and no reason to dis-believe the info. It looks like a toboggan ride to the bottom of the hill, coming soon.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
jmski52, yes those long term charts of S&P P/E ratio and earnings tell a drastically different story compared to the rally since March 9th. Unless we now decide that besides "deficits don't matter" that "earnings don't matter" is the now the norm, then it does look to be a toboggan ride up ahead.
Am I reading this chart correctly? Inflation adjusted price of gold Gold is at 1973 levels when adjusted for inflation? Up nicely since 1971, but if gold was allowed to float in 1971 it probably would have been twice as much anyway , ie $70.
Would concur that had gold been allowed to float earlier it likely would have doubled price by 1971. The price gold reached in 1980 was within 5% of the price per oz. needed to balance the total US foreign debt. Today, the price per oz. needed to do that is well into 5 figures and that assumes that all 8133 tons of gold is still owned by the US. That inflation adjusted value for gold where 2009 = 1973 is correct. But what is more commonly used is the inflation adjusted value of gold at the peak in 1980 at around $2200/oz. That's the price gold would have to reach today just to account for CPI related changes using today's CPI models, not the 1980 or 1990 models which would give higher results. Basically it is stating that commodities in general (and gold in particular) have been lagging for a long time.
How Many times do we have to tell these foreign investors? We are going to print them every cent we owe them!
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Last Updated: 9:40AM BST 26 May 2009
China warns Federal Reserve over 'printing money'
China has warned a top member of the US Federal Reserve that it is increasingly disturbed by the Fed's direct purchase of US Treasury bonds.
Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, said: "Senior officials of the Chinese government grilled me about whether or not we are going to monetise the actions of our legislature."
"I must have been asked about that a hundred times in China. I was asked at every single meeting about our purchases of Treasuries. That seemed to be the principal preoccupation of those that were invested with their surpluses mostly in the United States," he told the Wall Street Journal.
His recent trip to the Far East appears to have been a stark reminder that Asia's "Confucian" culture of right action does not look kindly on the insouciant policy of printing money by Anglo-Saxons.
Mr Fisher, the Fed's leading hawk, was a fierce opponent of the original decision to buy Treasury debt, fearing that it would lead to a blurring of the line between fiscal and monetary policy – and could all too easily degenerate into Argentine-style financing of uncontrolled spending.
The Oxford-educated Mr Fisher, an outspoken free-marketer and believer in the Schumpeterian process of "creative destruction", has been running a fervent campaign to alert Americans to the "very big hole" in unfunded pension and health-care liabilities built up by a careless political class over the years.
Once considered unthinkable, U.S. sales tax gets fresh look - Washington Post
Washington Post reports with budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax. Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity. At a White House conference earlier this year on the government's budget problems, a roomful of tax experts pleaded with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to consider a VAT. A recent flurry of books and papers on the subject is attracting genuine, if furtive, interest in Congress. And last month, after wrestling with the White House over the massive deficits projected under Obama's policies, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee declared that a VAT should be part of the debate. "There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."
Yes, I guess that a national sales tax will be proposed on the back of some sort of national health insurance proposal.
It of course would not make the income tax go away, but it could be an exceptionally good thing if the sales tax were introduced in conjunction with a vast simplication of the income tax code (eg - move to a flat tax at a low rate). This, in spite of being almost no brainer sound policy, is probably a pipe dream.
Discussion of a sales tax would be a good thing if it:
(1) Finally got politicians and the public to acknowledge that our spending and entitlement programs are completely unsound, and
(2) Moved us towards a substantive (as opposed to politically bickering and trivial) discussion of policy and priorities.
I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
Maryland plan to tax millionaires backfires Top earners disappearing as economy withers By Laura Smitherman | laura.smitherman@baltsun.com May 14, 2009 One of Maryland's budget-balancing tactics - asking millionaires to pay more money to the state - appears to be backfiring as the number of the highest-earning taxpayers dwindles with the flagging economy.
A year ago, Maryland became one of the first states in the nation to create a higher tax bracket for millionaires as part of a broader package of maneuvers intended to help balance the state's finances and make the tax code more progressive.
But as the state comptroller's office sifts through this year's returns, it is finding that the number of Marylanders with more than $1 million in taxable income who filed by the end of April has fallen by one-third, to about 2,000. Taxes collected from those returns as of last month have declined by roughly $100 million.
Soon we'll be within a few percentage points of the type of taxation many of us used to laugh at the europeans for having and within a couple percentage points of what the communists get for taxes. Only we have a more efficient collection arm.
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea. A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax.
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea. A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax. >>
Thats why it will probably have a tough time getting passed. They would have to allow a deduction of VAT for lower incomes. It would be just like the G to force everyone to save EVERY receipt to prove the taxes paid. Then they could create a larger IRS and increase employment roles.
if a person had say $100K - what would be the safest thing to do with that money in this day's economy considering the following --- already have PM's, house paid off, auto's paid off --- buy more real estate? buy more PM's? other?
Is the dollar seriously getting ready to tank? What would a person do with that kind of money - would it just 'disappear' --- ie. be screwed, glued, tattooed?
“Soon we'll be within a few percentage points of the type of taxation many of us used to laugh at the Europeans for having and within a couple percentage points of what the communists get for taxes. Only we have a more efficient collection arm.”
At least we will be able to learn from our European brothers.
For the last two decades the powers that be in the U.S. have been trying to move us toward electronic money i.e. debit cards, on line banking, direct deposits and withdrawals.
It is time for the smart wealthy people to move to as many cash transactions as possible.
The time is also upon us to learn how to work the BLACK MARKET.
I had a friend in Austria many years ago in the coin and bullion business. Nearly all his business was in CASH. And like many Doctors today he had one price for cash and another for other types of payments.
Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services.
Once we have National Health care, I think someone will be able to go to the front of the Doctors line with a little GOLD!
I think in the next couple of years we will see a big part of the economy go under ground!
Although large retailers will not take PM’S I think small retailers will be very interested in trading a few silver dollars for a new pair of boots.
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea. A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax. >>
Thats why it will probably have a tough time getting passed. They would have to allow a deduction of VAT for lower incomes. It would be just like the G to force everyone to save EVERY receipt to prove the taxes paid. Then they could create a larger IRS and increase employment roles. >>
Yeah, the working poor would have the added expense of filing for a refund while the wealthy would be paperwork free. That'll work out well.
The really scary part is that there are those that actually support such garbage.
A national sales tax is the only way to drag the 50% of the population back into the tax system. This 50% are the ones that reap most of the benefits from a socialistic system.
Socialism always destroys the lower classes in the end.
What I expect to see is a small Federal sales tax to begin with without any reduction in the income tax. The sales tax will start small so folks can get use to it then accelerate year by year just like the State sales taxes. There will be lots of talk about exempting the lower classes to begin with, but we will see where that goes later. To begin with the tax will be so small that refunds will not be necessary ( wink wink).
This new added tax will start just like the income tax. Promises will be made that it will not exceed a certain amount. This of course is a LIE. Eventually this sales tax will be used to fund all the social programs the government has stolen money from.
<< <i>Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services. >>
I think you have a very slanted viewpoint here. The reason medical charges less for cash than insured is because it's assumed, and rightfully so, that those paying in cash do NOT have insurance, thus couldn't afford the typical medical charges. Look at it that way and you see how inefficient and what a ripoff our current medical insurance system is while still leaving a large number uncovered.
<< <i>A national sales tax is the only way to drag the 50% of the population back into the tax system. This 50% are the ones that reap most of the benefits from a socialistic system.
Socialism always destroys the lower classes in the end.
What I expect to see is a small Federal sales tax to begin with without any reduction in the income tax. The sales tax will start small so folks can get use to it then accelerate year by year just like the State sales taxes. There will be lots of talk about exempting the lower classes to begin with, but we will see where that goes later. To begin with the tax will be so small that refunds will not be necessary ( wink wink).
This new added tax will start just like the income tax. Promises will be made that it will not exceed a certain amount. This of course is a LIE. Eventually this sales tax will be used to fund all the social programs the government has stolen money from. >>
<< <i>1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits. 2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service. 3. Limit elected terms to 8 years. 4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500. >>
Id have better luck telling my dog not to eat when I put steak in her bowl. Gov't grows like cancer to grab power and money. Its been that way for 230 years, it wont change. The only long shot is a constitutional convention to limit federal power and since they control the military its not likely to happen.
<< Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services. >>
Of course, the "insurance system" is the reason for the high medical costs. No one shops for price and the ins companies just pass on the increases. I pay cash and I get half on most things as well as a lot less "tests" In addition most of my medicines are boxes of "samples" the doctors get for free.
“I think you have a very slanted viewpoint here. The reason medical charges less for cash than insured is because it's assumed, and rightfully so, that those paying in cash do NOT have insurance, thus couldn't afford the typical medical charges. Look at it that way and you see how inefficient and what a rip-off our current medical insurance system is while still leaving a large number uncovered.”
Sumrtym,
My take is a little different. If you are a private pay on your health insurance, and more and more that is the case, you must be very wealthy to afford FULL coverage. FULL coverage means very little or no deductible.
Most private pay folks have a $2,000 to $5,000 deductible, per person, per year. So if you go for a CT scan, or some minor tests you must pay for these yourself. In addition if you must have a procedure not covered by your insurance, say a pre-existing condition you must also pay for this.
I believe a time is coming that one could negotiate with ones physician for gold or silver and get very fast service. Doctors like everyone else are going to be told by the government what they will be able to charge once we have Federal health care, and they like everyone else will deal in the black market.
Moonshine if a person had say $100K - what would be the safest thing to do with that money in this day's economy considering the following --- already have PM's, house paid off, auto's paid off --- buy more real estate? buy more PM's? other?
Is the dollar seriously getting ready to tank? What would a person do with that kind of money - would it just 'disappear' --- ie. be screwed, glued, tattooed?
Just trying to understand. It's a lot to grasp.
Moonshine, The dollar may tank, it may not. Your question is unanswerable unless you consider your BIGGER PICTURE. Diversify, protect and insure.
"It is time for the smart wealthy people to move to as many cash transactions as possible. The time is also upon us to learn how to work the BLACK MARKET. Once we have National Health care, I think someone will be able to go to the front of the Doctors line with a little GOLD! I think in the next couple of years we will see a big part of the economy go under ground! Although large retailers will not take PM’S I think small retailers will be very interested in trading a few silver dollars for a new pair of boots."
GS, you've touched some timely topics...
Cash transactions...gotta do it guys and gals, go ahead and get started and do it now...carry and use cash. One credit card for internet use, credit limit of less than $1000 (mine's $600) because there is more than a fair chance that it will get stolen in a transaction and eventhough covered by the credit card company, it's not tied to your primary checking so your are somewhat insulated. People say cash is king and give it a nod and go on...Hey Baby CASH IS KING!!! Keep what you can tucked away somewhere because a lack of circulating cash may get to be an issue and when it happens, it will be quick and no one will have any cash...oh yes, the atm's will be very dry. If you doubt this, just try a hurricane or wait for large scale electrical outages... after the atm's go down then the first things to go is gas and cash then food and if you don't have cash, you don't get any. Get an Amex card for your primary credit card...gotta pay it off or the card goes dark, none of this over balance crap or late payment fees, you charge it...make sure you can pay it or it's over. So, internet card, amex card, cash...get modern, things have changed. If you just have to have the convenience of a credit card for every day purchases, get a debit only card tied to your primary checking...no over limit, no late payments, if you don't have the cash in the account, your card is dark. You just gotta shut the bank credit out of your life so they stop hitting you with the little accounting gimmicks that cost you money for nothing. Once their access to your money is stymied, on a large scale, then maybe they will come around to our way of thinking. And, carrying and using FRN's is very patriotic. You will also notice with cash that you spend less and you have more cash around and you never get a bank fee...it's all good.
Gold for health care...interesting concept but what is known is that when the mullets start getting herded into the national health care line, any way that you can stand out will be to your advantage eg. slipping the nurse a silver eagle for some extra service or the MD a few credit suisse/pamp grams will sure as hell get their attention a) it's off the books, b) it's liquid, c) it's the best deal he/she has had all day, d) as they look over the waiting room at the great unwashed workin' their govt. health insurance...you're gonna be nice and shiney and get a smile when you walk up, life is good and hey, no govt. paperwork. Bartering is already in the media and people are cued to it so maybe folk with something to trade will try it more. So, good reason to have a few tubes of silver eagles laying around and a handful of baby pamps.
The black market/underground economy...it's already happening but at levels that are not mainstream. Probably is in the process of going mainstream right now and in polite circles, it's called bartering but it's..."Hey man, could I talk to the manager, please? I need a new set of radials on this truck and I have this nice half oz liberty here and a few of pamp grams here, would you do this with me?" (see a-d above). Same for the set of boots from the small retailer. No reason to advocate this type of bartering but it may become much more common for those that have the wherewithall.
It's a new marketplace now, convenience and access had been through a credit card account but perhaps that better convenience and access would be more easily attainable through some type of barter in the very near future. This evolution will be interesting to watch for those that can play like this and for those that can't, stand in line.
Rob Kirby dug into the Feb 2009 report from the US Geological Survey and noticed that 2920 metric tons of "gold compounds" were exported in 2008. The number for 2007 was approx 2000 tons. The concern was whether this was the physical exportation/repatriation of US gold stocks to their legal owners. A USGS rep indicated that gold compounds were typically things like gold paint or other products containing smaller amounts of gold. Exported gold ore, refined bullion, scrap, and wastage is listed in other columns of the data. The USGS also carries but does not publish the dollar value associated with said "gold compounds." And per Kirby's discussion with USGS, that value was literally "astronomical" (ie not gold paint but closer to gold bullion).
The 2920 tons exported would be 14X US mined production so it's clear that it's something other than mined gold. If it were all gold paint, we're talking about 50,000,000 gallons of it. Kirby also wonders why the total tons exported of this "gold paint" increased nearly 50% in the midst of a world wide recession. Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? Does Steve Wynn need even more gold paint for his casinos? In January of 2009 the amount exported so far is 168,000 kg or about 185 tons. That's approx 2200 tons year annualized. So it appears that the mania for "gold paint" has subsided a bit. The 4 nations getting the majority of that on-sale January gold paint are Singapore, Dominican Republic, Canada, and Germany. I assume there are lots of gold houses and other buildings in the tiny nations of Singapore and DR. But I would have guessed there was more of a need for gold paint in Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, China, Japan and India. China was a big gold paint buyer in June 2008 but still fell way behind perennial #1 Singapore which usually buys 2X or 3X the amounts of the next highest nation. Go Singapore!
In parting, Kirby mentions that the US trade data would look worse over the past 2 years without including approx $128 BILL in exported "gold compounds." An interesting article and worth reading.
The most common gold compounds are auric chloride (AuCl3) and chlorauric acid (HAuCl4). A mixture of one part nitric acid with three of hydrochloric acid is called aqua regia (because it dissolved gold, the King of Metals). It is unaffected by air and most reagents. It is found free in nature and associated with quartz, pyrite and other minerals.
Gold chloride, also known as auric chloride (AuCl3), serves as a mild acid catalyst for other reactions of potential value in the preparation of pharmaceuticals The most common use for chloroauric acid industrially is as the electrolyte in the Wohlwill process for refining gold to its highest commercial purity
Gold compounds Compounds: halides, oxides, sulfides, hydrides, and complexes; lattice energies; and reduction potentials
Wikipedia......Gold salts describe ionic chemical compounds of gold. The term, which is a misnomer, has evolved into a euphemism for the gold compounds used in medicine. The application of gold compounds to medicine is called "chrysotherapy" and "aurotherapy."[1] The first reports of research in this area appeared in 1935,[2] primarily to reduce inflammation and to slow disease progression in patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Most chemical compounds of gold, including some of the drugs discussed below, are not in fact salts. Gold compounds find wide use in electroplating
I would imagine more "investigation" by Mr. Kirby would reveal that the "gold compounds" were shipped to South Africa and Canada to aid in the refining process. Since the demand for gold increased in 2008, it is only logical that the use of a refining agent would also see increased demand.
I dont understand why smart people like Kirby need to fabricate stories to sell newsletters.
Cohodk, some interesting comments. If what you say is true I still wouldn't have expected a 50% increase in the concentrates from 2007 to 2008. Gold production is not that variable where a 50% increase occurred yoy. In fact gold production has been falling steadily since around 2003.
And if this is concentrates why aren't many leading mining nations getting it shipped to them? You don't see any nations in Africa, nor Australia, Peru, Brazil, Argentina, Turkey, Russia and other leading mining nations on the list for June 2008 or Jan. 2009. China and Canada do show up. What you do see are banking centers such as Dom Rep, Singapore, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, UK, Taiwan, etc. These nations don't do a lot in gold mining last I checked. And unless Singapore is the hub of the world for gold ore concentrates (ie we export to them so they can then ship it back to Africa and South America), then it makes no sense that they are by far the leading nation in exported "gold compounds." The only other alternative is that the bulk of gold ore procecessing facilities are located in Southeast Asia.
But I will forward your comments to Rob Kirby and see what he says. He's very good about replying to emails.
<< <i>Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? >>
Only at a certain fort in KY that shall remained anonymous. >>
Wasn't there a story about two years ago about the gold reserves in Ethiopia being switched with gold painted iron bars? I recall this inside job was only discovered when the "gold bars" were shipped to South Africa.
The point, which Kirby mentions and then seems to completely ignore in his analysis is that the gross weight of a gold compounds vastly exceeds the weight of the pure gold in the compound. He can't take the gross weight given and then multiply it by the price of gold
Well the folks out there are already testing the system this is going to get very interesting!!
Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard time Las Vegas Review Journal ^ | 26 May 2009 | JOAN WHITELY
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 10:45:44 AM by ameribbean expat
Robert Kahre, who owns numerous construction businesses in Las Vegas, is standing trial on 57 counts of income tax evasion, tax fraud and criminal conspiracy. If convicted on most counts, he could live out his life in prison.
But attorney William Cohan paints Kahre as an American "hero" who believes his payroll system helped keep the U.S. monetary system sound, and was also a form of legal tax avoidance.
A self-made entrepreneur, Kahre, 48, paid his workers in gold and silver coin, and said they could go by the coins' face value -- rather than the much higher market value of their precious metal content -- for federal tax purposes. He did not withhold taxes from their wages, and he provided the same payroll system to 35 outside clients, which were other local businesses.
Judge David Ezra is presiding over the criminal trial, which began May 19 in U.S. District Court. Joining Kahre as defendants are his longtime girlfriend, a sister who works in his businesses, and a former business assistant.
Three of the four present defendants were among the nine people tried on similar charges two years ago, but no convictions resulted. In the 2007 trial, four others of the nine defendants, including Kahre's mother, were entirely acquitted. Two individuals were only partially acquitted, but dropped from the indictment that forms the basis for the trial before Ezra.
This time around, the only new defendant is Danille Cline, Kahre's girlfriend of 19 years, and the stay-at-home mother of his four children. The government claims she obstructed the Internal Revenue Service by allowing Kahre to place several homes in her name, thus attempting to conceal his assets.
Cline's former brother-in-law, Thomas Browne, also was indicted this time, for his role as broker in some of the real estate transactions, but has since reached a plea bargain. He is expected to testify against the defendants.
"This is a case about money, greed and fraud." The line appeared on screen in court during the government's opening statement by Christopher Maietta, a trial lawyer from the Washington, D.C., office of the Department of Justice.
According to the government, Kahre and others concocted a fraudulent cash payroll "scheme" and then peddled it to other Las Vegas contractors. Defendants did not report to the IRS any payments made to workers, "either at the true amount or at the bogus amount, ... being the face value of the coin or coins," according to the indictment.
The now-suspended payroll service handled about $114 million over six years, according to court records. Between 17 and 25 percent of that went to Kahre or his workers; the rest went to the 35 client businesses to pay their workers, court records show.
The government did not indict most of the outside businesses or their personnel as co-conspirators with Kahre; although on May 6, Daniel McCartan of Action Concrete, which was one of Kahre's payroll clients, was finally sentenced in connection with a plea agreement reached in December 2006. McCartan received five months in prison and five months of home detention for one count of tax evasion.
Kahre contends his workers had agreed to be independent contractors, so he did not have to withhold taxes for them. His six businesses are in the trades of painting, drywall, tiling, plumbing, heating-cooling and electrical work.
Further, the $50 gold coins and the silver dollars Kahre used for payroll are designated by Congress as legal tender, so people are entitled to value them at their stamped denominations, he also contends. Taken at face value, each defendant's annual coin income placed him below the threshold for filing a federal tax return.
Earlier cases on the question of how to value gold or silver coins have focused on collectible coins that had been pulled from circulation but still have value as property, according to the defense. Kahre used coins minted after 1985, which are allowed to circulate.
"It's not whether what Mr. Kahre did was legal under the law," defense attorney Michael Kennedy told the jury in his opening statement. "It's whether he believed what he did was legal," in the absence of explicit instructions by the IRS -- on its Web site, in its publications or in response to written correspondence from Kahre -- on how to value post-1985 gold or silver coins.
"We're not here to determine if moneys are owed," said Kennedy on behalf of his client, Lori Kahre, who had relied on her brother's tax theory. A tax mistake is different from a tax crime, so the IRS can still use administrative channels to force the defendants to pay back taxes, Kennedy has noted in the past.
A sincere, but mistaken understanding of the tax-filing process is different from adopting a "pretextual" belief system in order to dodge taxes, Ezra acknowledged in court Wednesday.
Cohan described Kahre's payroll system as a "boycott of the Federal Reserve." But when the lawyer attempted to elaborate on Kahre's view that the nation has debased its paper currency by abandoning its former gold standard, Ezra added, "We're not here to convince the jury that the ... (U.S.) monetary system belongs to an international cabal."
The problem with the chemical thesis your friend is putting forward is that the USGS has told me that the DOLLAR AMOUNTS being assigned to these goods are INCONSISTENT with these types of goods – that is why they queried the Census Bureau in the first place. Therefore, the chemical thesis FAILS........R
I don't understand why smart people like Kirby need to fabricate stories to sell newsletters. ....I doubt he needs to. Why can't smart people find some hard data to refute his claims?
The point, which Kirby mentions and then seems to completely ignore in his analysis is that the gross weight of a gold compounds vastly exceeds the weight of the pure gold in the compound. He can't take the gross weight given and then multiply it by the price of gold
That's not what Kirby is doing at all. The data as provided up to 2006 shows an average price of these compounds to be on the order of 50c per ounce, or $64/gallon of gold paint if you will. Since the pricing data from 2007-2009 is no longer provided (fancy that!), Kirby called the USGS. He was informed that the pricing data was inconsistent with previous values of gold compounds. Draw your own conclusion as to why the price data was removed in 2007.
I dug a bit deeper into the USGS site to see what I could find on export data and prove you guys right. But to my surprise there is a lot of interesting information here from every US state as well as every nation that imports or exports gold products. They do in fact have Dollar data on the value of those gold compounds....but only up to 2006. That data shows the "gold compounds" worth in the range of about 50 cents per ounce. Obviously it's not gold bullion or anywhere close. Pricing data from 2007-2008 isn't there folks! I would assume that Rob Kirby has already been through this trail and exhausted it, hence the call to the gold mineral specialist at the USGS, who then called the US Census Bureau who provided the data in the first place. Apparently the pricing data falls off the cliff after Dec 2006. It's not even available in the monthly data just in case you wanted to add up all 12 months on your own.
Here's what I found for years 2005 through 2008 in the Mineral Yearbooks for exported "gold compounds." Note that the USGS includes official monetary gold, fabricated gold, gold coins, and net bullion flows in this category. They apparently get this information from the US Census Bureau.
Year.......Gold compounds exported in kg........Value
2004 1,170,000 $29,000,000 2005 1,310,000 $30,900,000 2006 1,460,000 $28,100,000 2007 2,150,000 $40,100,000 (added on 6/1/09 from USGS) 2008 2,920,000 $67,900,000 (added on 6/1/09 from USGS)
Note that a single ton of gold shipped anytime during the year would double the price of the annual gold compounds above yet not even be significant in the total kg. That would raise the average price from around 50c/oz to $1/oz. Obviously shipping 10 tons of bullion or more would effectively make the gold compound price resemble mostly pure gold. Shipping hundreds of tons annually would behard to hide the value....unless you don't list it. The pog did not really start moving in 2007 until August/September. It would be hard to justify a 47% annual increase in compounds to the last few months of 2007.
Jan 2008 220,000 kg of compounds Jan 2009 168,000 kg
The doubting Thomases would say that the annual data from 2004-2008 just shows a ramping up of ore production, hence more chemicals needed. Maybe so. But it would then seem that the miners are processing twice as many rocks today than they were in 2005-2006 to produce even less total gold. The rates jumped enormously in 2007 and again in 2008. Last I checked, mines just can't ramp up production by 50% or 100% instantaneously. It takes time to install new equipment. And if you process 2X as many rocks at the same mine doesn't that slow production and raise costs accordingly, beyond just that of fuel and energy? Any chance that the extra 700,000 kg in 2007 (700 metric tons) and 1,500,000 kg in 2008 (1500 metric tons) over the earlier years might just represent some bank bullion flows? The 2007-2008 abbreviated surveys do list total exported bullion gold at 519 & 534 tons resp., offsetting a few hundred tons that is imported. Not a big enough difference imo.
So why isn't the 2007 Mineral book completed? Will it ever be completed? Did it go the way of budget cuts just like M3 reporting? After retracing Rob's steps I too am tempted to pick up the phone and ask the USGS what the missing values for 2007/2008 are. Rob asked the question and was told the unpublished numbers are not in line with values of junk gold compounds (ie 50c per ounce). And as Rob mentions, why the 50% increase in gold compounds from 2007 to 2008 during a recession as miners were starting to cut back? The only relevent information I could dig out was that US refined bullion exports (from mining) increased from 324/389 tons in 2005/2006 to 519/534 in 2007/2008. While US production may have increased markedly during those years, that wasn't the case for the world that was in need of our "gold compounds." And for emphasis, why the need for a 50% increase in gold compounds in 2008 as world gold production fell off during a recession? And then in January 2009, the gold compounds fell off 24% from a year earlier. All of a sudden the ore being processed is back down again, vs. the pog rising sharply since November? The diff in those Januaries is 52,000 kg or 52 tons. That would be a nice chunk of bank bullion. Too many contradictions here folks, esp. the missing pricing data that is no longer relevant or useful. Makes one wonder why they bothered pricing it in the years prior to 2007?
The Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland recently released their 6 month update on world OTC derivatives. The previous update was in June 2008. Deepcaster's general rundown on the stats:
Total notional value of derviatives fell from $683 TRILL to $591 T. A drop of 13.5%. So that means we still have 86.5% of the pain to yet experience as these wind down. It took something on the order of a loss in world wealth of $50+ TRILL to lower the derivatives by $92 TRILL. How many more times can we go through that process? It should also be noted that in 2008 the BIS had the total derivatives at $1,140 TRILL. Sometime during the 1st half of 2008 year they changed the accounting method to a more accomodating model that lowered the total to $683 TRILL. If they can do that 1 or 2 more times the problem with otc derivatives is solved.
Interest rate contracts fell from $458T to $418T. The IR swaps which are part of that fell from $356T to $328T. So 8% of those have been dealt with through the Lehman failure, etc.
Notional gold derivatives fell from $549 BILL to $395 BILL. Interesting though is that that est. "market" value of these only fell from $68 BILL to $65 BILL.
Credit default swaps fell from $57 TRILL to $42 TRILL. This is about a 1/3 drop from the orig peak of $62 TRILL.
The total est. market value of all derivatives INCREASED from $20.3 TRILL to $33.8 TRILL. IR swaps alone accounted for +8.5 TRILL of that increase. The next question is what financial institutions benefited from this +$13 TRILL while stock equities and commodities were being trashed from July-December 2008? No doubt this will be kept a tight secret. Considering that JPM holds the largest quantity of IRSwaps at over $50 TRILL, one would not have to look much further than the initials J.P.M. to find an answer. OK, but then what happens to those bets once interest rates rise even further? Obviously the change in IR's has been considerable since Dec. The June 2009 BIS report should be interesting.
Interesting article. I suspect the 'gold compounds' include bars of melted coin gold.... using the rationalization that since it is not 'pure' gold, it is not bullion.....
More than ever..... buy PHYSICAL gold and silver..... too many shell games are being played right now.
However, I suspect that owning our own physical gold and silver may not be safe in the future. We have had discussions on the forum about gold confiscation. I doubt that confiscation would occur as it did in the thirties. The US government would not have to resort to confiscation to get the publics gold and silver. All the government would have to do is pass a law (or presidential decree?) something along the lines of a 'bullion transaction tax' that would have a prohibitive tax rate, and would also stipulate severe penalties for any violation of the act. Or perhaps a bullion tax stamp/form will be needed for each transaction. Remember the laws passed years ago that required a tax stamp had to be attached to each illegal drug transaction? Where the drug dealer would have to go to the county court house and purchase each $1000 tax stamp? Of course few if any were actually stupid enough to do that.... but the law was in fact used to help fine and lock up the drug dealers when it was found they did not have the 'appropriate tax stamp' during their transactions.
Or, they could pass a law forbidding any buying or selling any bullion related items without a 'bullion transaction permit' which would of course cost $1000 or some such amount per year, etc. The vast majority of the public would in effect no longer be able to legally buy or sell gold or silver items profitably.
But.... under the above scenario, the US government would allow the citizens to 'sell' their gold and silver without permits, taxes, etc..... to the US government. For the governments stipulated price, of course.
To help speed the 'voluntary confiscation' of gold and silver along.... the government could also require the yearly completion of a 'bullion property form' perhaps as part of the income tax forms. All held gold and silver items would have to be accounted for. And the government could then charge a bullion property tax yearly on the amount held. This type of law would certainly prompt many individuals to 'sell' to the US government.
I'm not predicting that this sort of thing will in fact happen. Just bringing up the point.... that even if confiscation might not happen, that does not mean the government might not go after the gold and silver using other means. There are plenty of backdoor approches that can be used to obtain what ever they want. Just look at how the government is now in the car business.
Comments
I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge?
as you can see the average firefighter makes around 50K, less than the average teacher in OC, California. I know of a few who have tried to get in and the waiting lists are huge.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year, retires at 50 with a pension of 90% of his salary?
I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge? >>
There was an article in todays Sun Sentinel which is out of Ft Lauderdale showing that some police in Ft Lauderdale have been making more than the average person, just in OVERTIME pay!
Lots of those baaaaad pot smokers and growers to lock up!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
as you can see the average firefighter makes around 50K, less than the average teacher in OC, California. I know of a few who have tried to get in and the waiting lists are huge.
April 24, 2006
There's A Reason They Line Up For Firefighter Jobs...
Steve Greenhut posted this earlier today over at Orange Punch:
During the debate over Measure D, pitting firefighters against deputies in the pursuit of tax dollars, firefighters got mad at me for printing (from their own budget) the reality that the average firefighter in Orange County earns $175,000 a year in salary and benefits. Now, check out this report from the LA Daily News, and we see the greed isn't confined to the OC:
"Despite two years of trying to trim lucrative overtime pay for city firefighters, more than a dozen pulled in $100,000, or more, in OT last year, a Daily News analysis shows.
"Fifteen of the 17 firefighters earned more in overtime pay than their base salaries, and two made more than $175,000 in OT that bumped their gross pay to more than $268,000 - about $5,000 more than their boss, Chief William Bamattre.
"With base pay, OT and other pay and bonuses, firefighters and their bosses accounted for nearly two-thirds of the 100 city workers who earned more than $200,000 last year, records show
___________________________________________________
These are the facts from TWO years ago. They make more now. Wahoo...I wonder if they buy gold for security or they just sit by the pool and let us poor schlubs pay for their retirement fun?
Answer, they just sit by the pool and let us poor schlubs pay for their retirement fun?
add edit:
March 27th, 2007, 10:19 am · 7 Comments · posted by by Alan Bock, Register editorial writer
From Steven Greenhut:
A chart from the Orange County Business Council looking at housing costs in relation to incomes reported, in Monday’s Register, that the median local home price is $711,000, with the typical annual firefighter income of about $53,000. Just to set the record straight: Based on a close look at the OC Fire Authority budget — confirmed by the firefighter union — the average total compensation package for an OC firefighter is a whopping $175,000 a year. I don’t know how OCBC came up with these numbers. But often salary numbers that make it seem as if public employees earn a pittance tend to a) exclude cushy benefits (i.e., 100 percent retirements in the early 50s), include part-time workers in the average and c) exclude overtime, even though the unions rig the game so that their members can maximize their overtime pay. No wonder there are several thousand applicants for every firefighter job that becomes available.
Retiring early
<< <i>DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year... >>
WOW! Think about the rookies starting out at $50K/year. Must mean some "firefighters" hanging on the back of that pumper are making $300K/year!
Maybe their zip code is 90210.
Author suggests that CPI is not a good measuring tool of true inflation or even price stability. He also notes that steady or lowering prices at the lower end of the production scale are not "proof" that significant inflation is absent from the economy (ie. look at the 1920's and 1980's to 1990's). The CPI was a better monitor of inflation using the 1980 model.
Clive Maund on the stock market going forward
Clive paints a pretty bearish picture with some legitimate substantiation. But I'm not convinced that this TARP recovery can't be extended with a few more TRILLION tossed at it. I'd like to hear his views on what could be coming next for gold and silver. It makes sense that a stall in the S&P will be timed with a recovery in the $USD and $USTB. At all 3 seem like they could make that happen right now. In that environment I don't see PM strength continuing.
Stocks at 1966 levels - return to Gilligan's Island
When adjusted for inflation, it's 1966 all over again.
roadrunner
<< <i>Another look at measuring inflation - Gerard Jackson
Author suggests that CPI is not a good measuring tool of true inflation or even price stability. He also notes that steady or lowering prices at the lower end of the production scale are not "proof" that significant inflation is absent from the economy (ie. look at the 1920's and 1980's to 1990's). The CPI was a better monitor of inflation using the 1980 model.
Clive Maund on the stock market going forward
Clive paints a pretty bearish picture with some legitimate substantiation. But I'm not convinced that this TARP recovery can't be extended with a few more TRILLION tossed at it. I'd like to hear his views on what could be coming next for gold and silver. It makes sense that a stall in the S&P will be timed with a recovery in the $USD and $USTB. At all 3 seem like they could make that happen right now. In that environment I don't see PM strength continuing.
Stocks at 1966 levels - return to Gilligan's Island
When adjusted for inflation, it's 1966 all over again.
roadrunner >>
Roadrunner,
Am I reading this chart correctly?Inflation adjusted price of gold Gold is 1973 levels when adjusted for inflation? Up nicely since 1971, but if gold was allowed to float in 1971 it probably would have been twice as much anyway , ie $70.
I think both charts illustrate my assertion that ALL assets classes have their day in the sun, but ALL suck as long term investments. One needs to rotate among assets over their lifetimes to truely get ahead. Unfortunately for many the rotation become apparent only after one has doubled and one has halved. Maybe this is PM's time, maybe it is another asset. Hopefully we'll all be able to check back in in 20 years.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>DID YOU KNOW: the average firefighter in Orange County , CA makes $175,000 per year, retires at 50 with a pension of 90% of his salary?
I wonder if this person buys gold as a hedge? >>
You can even get these guys' names and pay from the web....LOL
Name Rank in 08 08 Base pay 08 Special pay 08 Overtime pay 08 Gross pay
RODRIGUEZ, MARK S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $88,225 $12,339 $109,842 $210,406 Details
HUTNYAN, ROBERT J FIRE CAPTAIN $104,563 $31,588 $107,822 $243,973 Details
VANDERHAGEN, JOHN L FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,500 $13,597 $100,693 $205,790 Details
FINNEY, JEFFREY A FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,498 $14,159 $99,232 $204,889 Details
HOSBURG JR, GREGORY LOUIS FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,395 $27,241 $94,352 $206,988 Details
BUCHANAN, KENNETH W FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $90,085 $7,605 $94,166 $191,856 Details
CANDELARIA, STEVEN D FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $84,996 $10,412 $90,093 $185,501 Details
OWEN, JIM M FIREFIGHTER $81,895 $27,522 $86,119 $195,536 Details
SELLARS, JAY S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $86,644 $7,378 $82,725 $176,747 Details
MAC KENZIE, DAVID J FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,145 $9,451 $81,705 $176,302 Details
LOVELESS, THOMAS A FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $88,660 $11,524 $81,125 $181,309 Details
HUBERT, JEFFREY S FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $85,168 $11,524 $81,014 $177,706 Details
WALKER, PAUL F FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $89,514 $11,524 $80,294 $181,331 Details
MC DAIRMANT, SCOTT K FIRE CAPTAIN $107,313 $17,428 $76,773 $201,514 Details
ADAMS, JEFFREY D FIRE CAPTAIN $99,832 $14,548 $76,659 $191,038 Details
ASHBY, COLTON B FIRE CAPTAIN $105,470 $14,298 $76,327 $196,095 Details
VENTURA, RICHARD A FIRE CAPTAIN $104,957 $19,340 $76,139 $200,437 Details
MEAR, HARRY M FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $86,312 $11,524 $75,727 $173,563 Details
SAGE IV, FREDERICK H FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,299 $17,360 $75,546 $184,205 Details
JAMES, ROBERT W FIRE APPARATUS ENGINEER $91,817 $27,460 $75,380 $194,657 Details
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Campus Employee Name Title Gross Pay
BERKELEY TEDFORD, JEFF HEAD COACH-INTERCOLG ATHLETICS $2,831,653.50 Details
SAN FRANCISCO LEBOIT, PHILIP E PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $1,979,361.78 Details
SAN FRANCISCO MCCALMONT, TIMOTHY H PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $1,945,717.31 Details
LOS ANGELES BUSUTTIL, RONALD W PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $1,570,896.82 Details
LOS ANGELES SHEMIN, RICHARD J PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $1,195,837.17 Details
LOS ANGELES TABSH, KHALIL M HS CLIN PROF-MEDCOMP-A $1,048,891.00 Details
BERKELEY BRAUN, BEN HEAD COACH-INTERCOLG ATHLETICS $998,569.07 Details
SAN FRANCISCO VAIL, THOMAS P ACT PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $846,083.00 Details
UCOP BERGGREN, MARIE N TREASURER OF THE REGENTS $833,437.18 Details
SAN DIEGO WEINREB, ROBERT N. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $804,341.04 Details
SAN DIEGO JAMIESON, STUART W PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $786,095.03 Details
SAN DIEGO SCHANZLIN, DAVID J. PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $783,964.24 Details
LOS ANGELES BECKER, DONALD P PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $760,062.52 Details
SAN FRANCISCO PRUSINER, STANLEY B PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $741,086.46 Details
SAN FRANCISCO AZAKIE, ANTHONY ASSOC PROF IN RES-MEDCOMP-A $731,243.40 Details
DAVIS MUIZELAAR, JAN PAUL PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $713,268.59 Details
SAN DIEGO BRENNER, DAVID ALLEN VICE CHAN (FUNCTIONAL AREA) $696,500.00 Details
DAVIS KIM, KEE D ASSOC PROF OF CLIN -MEDCOMP-A $684,783.15 Details
LOS ANGELES GITNICK, GARY L PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $674,932.68 Details
LOS ANGELES ENZMANN, DIETER R. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $673,704.98 Details
SAN DIEGO MOOSSA, ABDOOL RAHIM PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $660,131.15 Details
SAN FRANCISCO ASCHER, NANCY L PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $657,286.46 Details
LOS ANGELES VINUELA, FERNANDO STAFF RES ASSOC II-NONEXEMPT $653,379.44 Details
IRVINE HOYT, DAVID BUTLER PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $649,999.97 Details
SAN DIEGO GARFIN, STEVEN R. PROFESSOR-MEDCOMP-A $639,029.00 Details
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The unions destroyed the railroads, the steel industry, the auto industry and now they will BK the states too.
I knew it would happen.
Am I reading this chart correctly? Inflation adjusted price of gold Gold is at 1973 levels when adjusted for inflation? Up nicely since 1971, but if gold was allowed to float in 1971 it probably would have been twice as much anyway , ie $70.
Would concur that had gold been allowed to float earlier it likely would have doubled price by 1971. The price gold reached in 1980 was within 5% of the price per oz. needed to balance the total US foreign debt. Today, the price per oz. needed to do that is well into 5 figures and that assumes that all 8133 tons of gold is still owned by the US. That inflation adjusted value for gold where 2009 = 1973 is correct. But what is more commonly used is the inflation adjusted value of gold at the peak in 1980 at around $2200/oz. That's the price gold would have to reach today just to account for CPI related changes using today's CPI models, not the 1980 or 1990 models which would give higher results. Basically it is stating that commodities in general (and gold in particular) have been lagging for a long time.
roadrunner
How Many times do we have to tell these foreign investors? We are going to print them every cent we owe them!
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 9:40AM BST 26 May 2009
China warns Federal Reserve over 'printing money'
China has warned a top member of the US Federal Reserve that it is increasingly disturbed by the Fed's direct purchase of US Treasury bonds.
Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, said: "Senior officials of the Chinese government grilled me about whether or not we are going to monetise the actions of our legislature."
"I must have been asked about that a hundred times in China. I was asked at every single meeting about our purchases of Treasuries. That seemed to be the principal preoccupation of those that were invested with their surpluses mostly in the United States," he told the Wall Street Journal.
His recent trip to the Far East appears to have been a stark reminder that Asia's "Confucian" culture of right action does not look kindly on the insouciant policy of printing money by Anglo-Saxons.
Mr Fisher, the Fed's leading hawk, was a fierce opponent of the original decision to buy Treasury debt, fearing that it would lead to a blurring of the line between fiscal and monetary policy – and could all too easily degenerate into Argentine-style financing of uncontrolled spending.
The Oxford-educated Mr Fisher, an outspoken free-marketer and believer in the Schumpeterian process of "creative destruction", has been running a fervent campaign to alert Americans to the "very big hole" in unfunded pension and health-care liabilities built up by a careless political class over the years.
BERKELEY TEDFORD, JEFF HEAD COACH-INTERCOLG ATHLETICS $2,831,653.50 Details
He could stand a bump. It was either this or he goes to the pros.
edit:speeling
Once considered unthinkable, U.S. sales tax gets fresh look - Washington Post
Washington Post reports with budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax. Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity. At a White House conference earlier this year on the government's budget problems, a roomful of tax experts pleaded with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to consider a VAT. A recent flurry of books and papers on the subject is attracting genuine, if furtive, interest in Congress. And last month, after wrestling with the White House over the massive deficits projected under Obama's policies, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee declared that a VAT should be part of the debate. "There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
siliconvalleycoins.com
It of course would not make the income tax go away, but it could be an exceptionally good thing if the sales tax were introduced in conjunction with a vast simplication of the income tax code (eg - move to a flat tax at a low rate). This, in spite of being almost no brainer sound policy, is probably a pipe dream.
Discussion of a sales tax would be a good thing if it:
(1) Finally got politicians and the public to acknowledge that our spending and entitlement programs are completely unsound, and
(2) Moved us towards a substantive (as opposed to politically bickering and trivial) discussion of policy and priorities.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner
Maryland plan to tax millionaires backfires
Top earners disappearing as economy withers
By Laura Smitherman | laura.smitherman@baltsun.com
May 14, 2009
One of Maryland's budget-balancing tactics - asking millionaires to pay more money to the state - appears to be backfiring as the number of the highest-earning taxpayers dwindles with the flagging economy.
A year ago, Maryland became one of the first states in the nation to create a higher tax bracket for millionaires as part of a broader package of maneuvers intended to help balance the state's finances and make the tax code more progressive.
But as the state comptroller's office sifts through this year's returns, it is finding that the number of Marylanders with more than $1 million in taxable income who filed by the end of April has fallen by one-third, to about 2,000. Taxes collected from those returns as of last month have declined by roughly $100 million.
WHEN will THEY learn?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
"flat" or "fair"
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea.
A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea.
A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax. >>
Thats why it will probably have a tough time getting passed. They would have to allow a deduction of VAT for lower incomes. It would be just like the G to force everyone to save EVERY receipt to prove the taxes paid. Then they could create a larger IRS and increase employment roles.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Is the dollar seriously getting ready to tank? What would a person do with that kind of money - would it just 'disappear' --- ie. be screwed, glued, tattooed?
Just trying to understand. It's a lot to grasp.
“Soon we'll be within a few percentage points of the type of taxation many of us used to laugh at the Europeans for having and within a couple percentage points of what the communists get for taxes. Only we have a more efficient collection arm.”
At least we will be able to learn from our European brothers.
For the last two decades the powers that be in the U.S. have been trying to move us toward electronic money i.e. debit cards, on line banking, direct deposits and withdrawals.
It is time for the smart wealthy people to move to as many cash transactions as possible.
The time is also upon us to learn how to work the BLACK MARKET.
I had a friend in Austria many years ago in the coin and bullion business. Nearly all his business was in CASH. And like many Doctors today he had one price for cash and another for other types of payments.
Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services.
Once we have National Health care, I think someone will be able to go to the front of the Doctors line with a little GOLD!
I think in the next couple of years we will see a big part of the economy go under ground!
Although large retailers will not take PM’S I think small retailers will be very interested in trading a few silver dollars for a new pair of boots.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd be all for a national sales tax assuming the following occurred at the same time. Additions welcome.
1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
The above would make it quite clear to our elected representatives what real and needed change is all about.
roadrunner >>
I would add as was mentioned on the last page...
5. Replaces the income tax. >>
Terrible idea.
A VAT would punish the working poor thru increased prices. We should eliminate all incomes taxes on business in favor of a flatter personal income tax. >>
Thats why it will probably have a tough time getting passed. They would have to allow a deduction of VAT for lower incomes. It would be just like the G to force everyone to save EVERY receipt to prove the taxes paid. Then they could create a larger IRS and increase employment roles. >>
Yeah, the working poor would have the added expense of filing for a refund while the wealthy would be paperwork free. That'll work out well.
The really scary part is that there are those that actually support such garbage.
Socialism always destroys the lower classes in the end.
What I expect to see is a small Federal sales tax to begin with without any reduction in the income tax. The sales tax will start small so folks can get use to it then accelerate year by year just like the State sales taxes. There will be lots of talk about exempting the lower classes to begin with, but we will see where that goes later. To begin with the tax will be so small that refunds will not be necessary ( wink wink).
This new added tax will start just like the income tax. Promises will be made that it will not exceed a certain amount. This of course is a LIE. Eventually this sales tax will be used to fund all the social programs the government has stolen money from.
<< <i>Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services. >>
I think you have a very slanted viewpoint here. The reason medical charges less for cash than insured is because it's assumed, and rightfully so, that those paying in cash do NOT have insurance, thus couldn't afford the typical medical charges. Look at it that way and you see how inefficient and what a ripoff our current medical insurance system is while still leaving a large number uncovered.
<< <i>A national sales tax is the only way to drag the 50% of the population back into the tax system. This 50% are the ones that reap most of the benefits from a socialistic system.
Socialism always destroys the lower classes in the end.
What I expect to see is a small Federal sales tax to begin with without any reduction in the income tax. The sales tax will start small so folks can get use to it then accelerate year by year just like the State sales taxes. There will be lots of talk about exempting the lower classes to begin with, but we will see where that goes later. To begin with the tax will be so small that refunds will not be necessary ( wink wink).
This new added tax will start just like the income tax. Promises will be made that it will not exceed a certain amount. This of course is a LIE. Eventually this sales tax will be used to fund all the social programs the government has stolen money from. >>
Goldsaint, I think you nailed it.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>1. Reduce the size of govt by 20% across the board, including salaries and benefits.
2. Give our Congressman and Senators no better health care plans and pensions that a typical military servicemen would get for the same years of service.
3. Limit elected terms to 8 years.
4. Break the links between lobbyist and elected officials by reducing campaign contributions to no more than say $1000/yr. This should be an amount that most well to do private citizens could afford to contribute. Maybe it should only be $250-$500.
>>
Id have better luck telling my dog not to eat when I put steak in her bowl. Gov't grows like cancer to grab power and money. Its been that way for 230 years, it wont change. The only long shot is a constitutional convention to limit federal power and since they control the military its not likely to happen.
<< Many of the medical people here in Texas charge 50% less for cash than for insured services. >>
Of course, the "insurance system" is the reason for the high medical costs. No one shops for price and the ins companies just pass on the increases. I pay cash and I get half on most things as well as a lot less "tests" In addition most of my medicines are boxes of "samples" the doctors get for free.
Sumrtym,
My take is a little different.
If you are a private pay on your health insurance, and more and more that is the case, you must be very wealthy to afford FULL coverage. FULL coverage means very little or no deductible.
Most private pay folks have a $2,000 to $5,000 deductible, per person, per year. So if you go for a CT scan, or some minor tests you must pay for these yourself. In addition if you must have a procedure not covered by your insurance, say a pre-existing condition you must also pay for this.
I believe a time is coming that one could negotiate with ones physician for gold or silver and get very fast service. Doctors like everyone else are going to be told by the government what they will be able to charge once we have Federal health care, and they like everyone else will deal in the black market.
if a person had say $100K - what would be the safest thing to do with that money in this day's economy considering the following --- already have PM's, house paid off, auto's paid off --- buy more real estate? buy more PM's? other?
Is the dollar seriously getting ready to tank? What would a person do with that kind of money - would it just 'disappear' --- ie. be screwed, glued, tattooed?
Just trying to understand. It's a lot to grasp.
Moonshine, The dollar may tank, it may not. Your question is unanswerable unless you consider your BIGGER PICTURE.
Diversify, protect and insure.
The time is also upon us to learn how to work the BLACK MARKET.
Once we have National Health care, I think someone will be able to go to the front of the Doctors line with a little GOLD!
I think in the next couple of years we will see a big part of the economy go under ground!
Although large retailers will not take PM’S I think small retailers will be very interested in trading a few silver dollars for a new pair of boots."
GS, you've touched some timely topics...
Cash transactions...gotta do it guys and gals, go ahead and get started and do it now...carry and use cash. One credit card for internet use, credit limit of less than $1000 (mine's $600) because there is more than a fair chance that it will get stolen in a transaction and eventhough covered by the credit card company, it's not tied to your primary checking so your are somewhat insulated. People say cash is king and give it a nod and go on...Hey Baby CASH IS KING!!! Keep what you can tucked away somewhere because a lack of circulating cash may get to be an issue and when it happens, it will be quick and no one will have any cash...oh yes, the atm's will be very dry. If you doubt this, just try a hurricane or wait for large scale electrical outages... after the atm's go down then the first things to go is gas and cash then food and if you don't have cash, you don't get any. Get an Amex card for your primary credit card...gotta pay it off or the card goes dark, none of this over balance crap or late payment fees, you charge it...make sure you can pay it or it's over. So, internet card, amex card, cash...get modern, things have changed. If you just have to have the convenience of a credit card for every day purchases, get a debit only card tied to your primary checking...no over limit, no late payments, if you don't have the cash in the account, your card is dark. You just gotta shut the bank credit out of your life so they stop hitting you with the little accounting gimmicks that cost you money for nothing. Once their access to your money is stymied, on a large scale, then maybe they will come around to our way of thinking. And, carrying and using FRN's is very patriotic. You will also notice with cash that you spend less and you have more cash around and you never get a bank fee...it's all good.
Gold for health care...interesting concept but what is known is that when the mullets start getting herded into the national health care line, any way that you can stand out will be to your advantage eg. slipping the nurse a silver eagle for some extra service or the MD a few credit suisse/pamp grams will sure as hell get their attention a) it's off the books, b) it's liquid, c) it's the best deal he/she has had all day, d) as they look over the waiting room at the great unwashed workin' their govt. health insurance...you're gonna be nice and shiney and get a smile when you walk up, life is good and hey, no govt. paperwork. Bartering is already in the media and people are cued to it so maybe folk with something to trade will try it more. So, good reason to have a few tubes of silver eagles laying around and a handful of baby pamps.
The black market/underground economy...it's already happening but at levels that are not mainstream. Probably is in the process of going mainstream right now and in polite circles, it's called bartering but it's..."Hey man, could I talk to the manager, please? I need a new set of radials on this truck and I have this nice half oz liberty here and a few of pamp grams here, would you do this with me?" (see a-d above). Same for the set of boots from the small retailer. No reason to advocate this type of bartering but it may become much more common for those that have the wherewithall.
It's a new marketplace now, convenience and access had been through a credit card account but perhaps that better convenience and access would be more easily attainable through some type of barter in the very near future. This evolution will be interesting to watch for those that can play like this and for those that can't, stand in line.
Good post, GS
Rob Kirby dug into the Feb 2009 report from the US Geological Survey and noticed that 2920 metric tons of "gold compounds" were exported in 2008. The number for 2007 was approx 2000 tons. The concern was whether this was the physical exportation/repatriation of US gold stocks to their legal owners. A USGS rep indicated that gold compounds were typically things like gold paint or other products containing smaller amounts of gold. Exported gold ore, refined bullion, scrap, and wastage is listed in other columns of the data. The USGS also carries but does not publish the dollar value associated with said "gold compounds." And per Kirby's discussion with USGS, that value was literally "astronomical" (ie not gold paint but closer to gold bullion).
The 2920 tons exported would be 14X US mined production so it's clear that it's something other than mined gold. If it were all gold paint, we're talking about 50,000,000 gallons of it. Kirby also wonders why the total tons exported of this "gold paint" increased nearly 50% in the midst of a world wide recession. Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? Does Steve Wynn need even more gold paint for his casinos? In January of 2009 the amount exported so far is 168,000 kg or about 185 tons. That's approx 2200 tons year annualized. So it appears that the mania for "gold paint" has subsided a bit. The 4 nations getting the majority of that on-sale January gold paint are Singapore, Dominican Republic, Canada, and Germany. I assume there are lots of gold houses and other buildings in the tiny nations of Singapore and DR. But I would have guessed there was more of a need for gold paint in Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, China, Japan and India. China was a big gold paint buyer in June 2008 but still fell way behind perennial #1 Singapore which usually buys 2X or 3X the amounts of the next highest nation. Go Singapore!
In parting, Kirby mentions that the US trade data would look worse over the past 2 years without including approx $128 BILL in exported "gold compounds." An interesting article and worth reading.
roadrunner
<< <i>Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? >>
Only at a certain fort in KY that shall remained anonymous.
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
http://www.webelements.com/gold/
Gold chloride, also known as auric chloride (AuCl3), serves as a mild acid catalyst for other reactions of potential value in the preparation of pharmaceuticals
The most common use for chloroauric acid industrially is as the electrolyte in the Wohlwill process for refining gold to its highest commercial purity
Gold compounds
Compounds: halides, oxides, sulfides, hydrides, and complexes; lattice energies; and reduction potentials
Wikipedia......Gold salts describe ionic chemical compounds of gold. The term, which is a misnomer, has evolved into a euphemism for the gold compounds used in medicine. The application of gold compounds to medicine is called "chrysotherapy" and "aurotherapy."[1] The first reports of research in this area appeared in 1935,[2] primarily to reduce inflammation and to slow disease progression in patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Most chemical compounds of gold, including some of the drugs discussed below, are not in fact salts. Gold compounds find wide use in electroplating
I would imagine more "investigation" by Mr. Kirby would reveal that the "gold compounds" were shipped to South Africa and Canada to aid in the refining process. Since the demand for gold increased in 2008, it is only logical that the use of a refining agent would also see increased demand.
I dont understand why smart people like Kirby need to fabricate stories to sell newsletters.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? >>
Only at a certain fort in KY that shall remained anonymous.
Fort Campbell?
And if this is concentrates why aren't many leading mining nations getting it shipped to them? You don't see any nations in Africa, nor Australia, Peru, Brazil, Argentina, Turkey, Russia and other leading mining nations on the list for June 2008 or Jan. 2009. China and Canada do show up. What you do see are banking centers such as Dom Rep, Singapore, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, UK, Taiwan, etc. These nations don't do a lot in gold mining last I checked. And unless Singapore is the hub of the world for gold ore concentrates (ie we export to them so they can then ship it back to Africa and South America), then it makes no sense that they are by far the leading nation in exported "gold compounds." The only other alternative is that the bulk of gold ore procecessing facilities are located in Southeast Asia.
But I will forward your comments to Rob Kirby and see what he says. He's very good about replying to emails.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>Was 2008 a banner year for painting fake wooden bricks gold? >>
Only at a certain fort in KY that shall remained anonymous.
Wasn't there a story about two years ago about the gold reserves in Ethiopia being switched with gold painted iron bars? I recall this inside job was only discovered when the "gold bars" were shipped to South Africa.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
interesting discussion again you guys.
Employer's gold, silver payroll standard may bring hard time
Las Vegas Review Journal ^ | 26 May 2009 | JOAN WHITELY
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 10:45:44 AM by ameribbean expat
Robert Kahre, who owns numerous construction businesses in Las Vegas, is standing trial on 57 counts of income tax evasion, tax fraud and criminal conspiracy. If convicted on most counts, he could live out his life in prison.
But attorney William Cohan paints Kahre as an American "hero" who believes his payroll system helped keep the U.S. monetary system sound, and was also a form of legal tax avoidance.
A self-made entrepreneur, Kahre, 48, paid his workers in gold and silver coin, and said they could go by the coins' face value -- rather than the much higher market value of their precious metal content -- for federal tax purposes. He did not withhold taxes from their wages, and he provided the same payroll system to 35 outside clients, which were other local businesses.
Judge David Ezra is presiding over the criminal trial, which began May 19 in U.S. District Court. Joining Kahre as defendants are his longtime girlfriend, a sister who works in his businesses, and a former business assistant.
Three of the four present defendants were among the nine people tried on similar charges two years ago, but no convictions resulted. In the 2007 trial, four others of the nine defendants, including Kahre's mother, were entirely acquitted. Two individuals were only partially acquitted, but dropped from the indictment that forms the basis for the trial before Ezra.
This time around, the only new defendant is Danille Cline, Kahre's girlfriend of 19 years, and the stay-at-home mother of his four children. The government claims she obstructed the Internal Revenue Service by allowing Kahre to place several homes in her name, thus attempting to conceal his assets.
Cline's former brother-in-law, Thomas Browne, also was indicted this time, for his role as broker in some of the real estate transactions, but has since reached a plea bargain. He is expected to testify against the defendants.
"This is a case about money, greed and fraud." The line appeared on screen in court during the government's opening statement by Christopher Maietta, a trial lawyer from the Washington, D.C., office of the Department of Justice.
According to the government, Kahre and others concocted a fraudulent cash payroll "scheme" and then peddled it to other Las Vegas contractors. Defendants did not report to the IRS any payments made to workers, "either at the true amount or at the bogus amount, ... being the face value of the coin or coins," according to the indictment.
The now-suspended payroll service handled about $114 million over six years, according to court records. Between 17 and 25 percent of that went to Kahre or his workers; the rest went to the 35 client businesses to pay their workers, court records show.
The government did not indict most of the outside businesses or their personnel as co-conspirators with Kahre; although on May 6, Daniel McCartan of Action Concrete, which was one of Kahre's payroll clients, was finally sentenced in connection with a plea agreement reached in December 2006. McCartan received five months in prison and five months of home detention for one count of tax evasion.
Kahre contends his workers had agreed to be independent contractors, so he did not have to withhold taxes for them. His six businesses are in the trades of painting, drywall, tiling, plumbing, heating-cooling and electrical work.
Further, the $50 gold coins and the silver dollars Kahre used for payroll are designated by Congress as legal tender, so people are entitled to value them at their stamped denominations, he also contends. Taken at face value, each defendant's annual coin income placed him below the threshold for filing a federal tax return.
Earlier cases on the question of how to value gold or silver coins have focused on collectible coins that had been pulled from circulation but still have value as property, according to the defense. Kahre used coins minted after 1985, which are allowed to circulate.
"It's not whether what Mr. Kahre did was legal under the law," defense attorney Michael Kennedy told the jury in his opening statement. "It's whether he believed what he did was legal," in the absence of explicit instructions by the IRS -- on its Web site, in its publications or in response to written correspondence from Kahre -- on how to value post-1985 gold or silver coins.
"We're not here to determine if moneys are owed," said Kennedy on behalf of his client, Lori Kahre, who had relied on her brother's tax theory. A tax mistake is different from a tax crime, so the IRS can still use administrative channels to force the defendants to pay back taxes, Kennedy has noted in the past.
A sincere, but mistaken understanding of the tax-filing process is different from adopting a "pretextual" belief system in order to dodge taxes, Ezra acknowledged in court Wednesday.
Cohan described Kahre's payroll system as a "boycott of the Federal Reserve." But when the lawyer attempted to elaborate on Kahre's view that the nation has debased its paper currency by abandoning its former gold standard, Ezra added, "We're not here to convince the jury that the ... (U.S.) monetary system belongs to an international cabal."
The problem with the chemical thesis your friend is putting forward is that the USGS has told me that the DOLLAR AMOUNTS being assigned to these goods are INCONSISTENT with these types of goods – that is why they queried the Census Bureau in the first place. Therefore, the chemical thesis FAILS........R
I don't understand why smart people like Kirby need to fabricate stories to sell newsletters. ....I doubt he needs to. Why can't smart people find some hard data to refute his claims?
The point, which Kirby mentions and then seems to completely ignore in his analysis is that the gross weight of a gold compounds vastly exceeds the weight of the pure gold in the compound. He can't take the gross weight given and then multiply it by the price of gold
That's not what Kirby is doing at all. The data as provided up to 2006 shows an average price of these compounds to be on the order of 50c per ounce, or $64/gallon of gold paint if you will. Since the pricing data from 2007-2009 is no longer provided (fancy that!), Kirby called the USGS. He was informed that the pricing data was inconsistent with previous values of gold compounds. Draw your own conclusion as to why the price data was removed in 2007.
2006 USGS minerals yearbook - 15 pages
I dug a bit deeper into the USGS site to see what I could find on export data and prove you guys right. But to my surprise there is a lot of interesting information here from every US state as well as every nation that imports or exports gold products. They do in fact have Dollar data on the value of those gold compounds....but only up to 2006. That data shows the "gold compounds" worth in the range of about 50 cents per ounce. Obviously it's not gold bullion or anywhere close. Pricing data from 2007-2008 isn't there folks! I would assume that Rob Kirby has already been through this trail and exhausted it, hence the call to the gold mineral specialist at the USGS, who then called the US Census Bureau who provided the data in the first place. Apparently the pricing data falls off the cliff after Dec 2006. It's not even available in the monthly data just in case you wanted to add up all 12 months on your own.
Here's what I found for years 2005 through 2008 in the Mineral Yearbooks for exported "gold compounds." Note that the USGS includes official monetary gold, fabricated gold, gold coins, and net bullion flows in this category. They apparently get this information from the US Census Bureau.
Year.......Gold compounds exported in kg........Value
2004 1,170,000 $29,000,000
2005 1,310,000 $30,900,000
2006 1,460,000 $28,100,000
2007 2,150,000 $40,100,000 (added on 6/1/09 from USGS)
2008 2,920,000 $67,900,000 (added on 6/1/09 from USGS)
Note that a single ton of gold shipped anytime during the year would double the price of the annual gold compounds above yet not even be significant in the total kg. That would raise the average price from around 50c/oz to $1/oz. Obviously shipping 10 tons of bullion or more would effectively make the gold compound price resemble mostly pure gold. Shipping hundreds of tons annually would behard to hide the value....unless you don't list it. The pog did not really start moving in 2007 until August/September. It would be hard to justify a 47% annual increase in compounds to the last few months of 2007.
Jan 2008 220,000 kg of compounds
Jan 2009 168,000 kg
The doubting Thomases would say that the annual data from 2004-2008 just shows a ramping up of ore production, hence more chemicals needed. Maybe so. But it would then seem that the miners are processing twice as many rocks today than they were in 2005-2006 to produce even less total gold. The rates jumped enormously in 2007 and again in 2008. Last I checked, mines just can't ramp up production by 50% or 100% instantaneously. It takes time to install new equipment. And if you process 2X as many rocks at the same mine doesn't that slow production and raise costs accordingly, beyond just that of fuel and energy? Any chance that the extra 700,000 kg in 2007 (700 metric tons) and 1,500,000 kg in 2008 (1500 metric tons) over the earlier years might just represent some bank bullion flows? The 2007-2008 abbreviated surveys do list total exported bullion gold at 519 & 534 tons resp., offsetting a few hundred tons that is imported. Not a big enough difference imo.
So why isn't the 2007 Mineral book completed? Will it ever be completed? Did it go the way of budget cuts just like M3 reporting? After retracing Rob's steps I too am tempted to pick up the phone and ask the USGS what the missing values for 2007/2008 are. Rob asked the question and was told the unpublished numbers are not in line with values of junk gold compounds (ie 50c per ounce). And as Rob mentions, why the 50% increase in gold compounds from 2007 to 2008 during a recession as miners were starting to cut back? The only relevent information I could dig out was that US refined bullion exports (from mining) increased from 324/389 tons in 2005/2006 to 519/534 in 2007/2008. While US production may have increased markedly during those years, that wasn't the case for the world that was in need of our "gold compounds." And for emphasis, why the need for a 50% increase in gold compounds in 2008 as world gold production fell off during a recession? And then in January 2009, the gold compounds fell off 24% from a year earlier. All of a sudden the ore being processed is back down again, vs. the pog rising sharply since November? The diff in those Januaries is 52,000 kg or 52 tons. That would be a nice chunk of bank bullion. Too many contradictions here folks, esp. the missing pricing data that is no longer relevant or useful. Makes one wonder why they bothered pricing it in the years prior to 2007?
USGS misc archived yearly data on gold - pick your year
edited on 6/1/09 to include 2007/2008 pricing data that USGS supplied me via email.
roadrunner
The Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland recently released their 6 month update on world OTC derivatives. The previous update was in June 2008. Deepcaster's general rundown on the stats:
Total notional value of derviatives fell from $683 TRILL to $591 T. A drop of 13.5%. So that means we still have 86.5% of the pain to yet experience as these wind down. It took something on the order of a loss in world wealth of $50+ TRILL to lower the derivatives by $92 TRILL. How many more times can we go through that process? It should also be noted that in 2008 the BIS had the total derivatives at $1,140 TRILL. Sometime during the 1st half of 2008 year they changed the accounting method to a more accomodating model that lowered the total to $683 TRILL. If they can do that 1 or 2 more times the problem with otc derivatives is solved.
Interest rate contracts fell from $458T to $418T. The IR swaps which are part of that fell from $356T to $328T. So 8% of those have been dealt with through the Lehman failure, etc.
Notional gold derivatives fell from $549 BILL to $395 BILL. Interesting though is that that est. "market" value of these only fell from $68 BILL to $65 BILL.
Credit default swaps fell from $57 TRILL to $42 TRILL. This is about a 1/3 drop from the orig peak of $62 TRILL.
The total est. market value of all derivatives INCREASED from $20.3 TRILL to $33.8 TRILL. IR swaps alone accounted for +8.5 TRILL of that increase. The next question is what financial institutions benefited from this +$13 TRILL while stock equities and commodities were being trashed from July-December 2008? No doubt this will be kept a tight secret. Considering that JPM holds the largest quantity of IRSwaps at over $50 TRILL, one would not have to look much further than the initials J.P.M. to find an answer. OK, but then what happens to those bets once interest rates rise even further? Obviously the change in IR's has been considerable since Dec. The June 2009 BIS report should be interesting.
roadrunner
More than ever..... buy PHYSICAL gold and silver..... too many shell games are being played right now.
However, I suspect that owning our own physical gold and silver may not be safe in the future. We have had discussions on the forum about gold confiscation. I doubt that confiscation would occur as it did in the thirties. The US government would not have to resort to confiscation to get the publics gold and silver. All the government would have to do is pass a law (or presidential decree?) something along the lines of a 'bullion transaction tax' that would have a prohibitive tax rate, and would also stipulate severe penalties for any violation of the act. Or perhaps a bullion tax stamp/form will be needed for each transaction. Remember the laws passed years ago that required a tax stamp had to be attached to each illegal drug transaction? Where the drug dealer would have to go to the county court house and purchase each $1000 tax stamp? Of course few if any were actually stupid enough to do that.... but the law was in fact used to help fine and lock up the drug dealers when it was found they did not have the 'appropriate tax stamp' during their transactions.
Or, they could pass a law forbidding any buying or selling any bullion related items without a 'bullion transaction permit' which would of course cost $1000 or some such amount per year, etc. The vast majority of the public would in effect no longer be able to legally buy or sell gold or silver items profitably.
But.... under the above scenario, the US government would allow the citizens to 'sell' their gold and silver without permits, taxes, etc..... to the US government. For the governments stipulated price, of course.
To help speed the 'voluntary confiscation' of gold and silver along.... the government could also require the yearly completion of a 'bullion property form' perhaps as part of the income tax forms. All held gold and silver items would have to be accounted for. And the government could then charge a bullion property tax yearly on the amount held. This type of law would certainly prompt many individuals to 'sell' to the US government.
I'm not predicting that this sort of thing will in fact happen. Just bringing up the point.... that even if confiscation might not happen, that does not mean the government might not go after the gold and silver using other means. There are plenty of backdoor approches that can be used to obtain what ever they want. Just look at how the government is now in the car business.