And I see fishcooker is a fan of ETFs and ETNs. Its the only way to go
It's the only way to go until the physical market explodes and people find out that the ETF's are just pawns of the FED and commercials. At that point the ETF's will be scrambling to find PM's and won't be able to. The word "bust" comes to mind. Trade away but know that someday the silver ETF goes kaboom. Gold and other ETF's will probably follow that lead.
I'm sure Warren was doing just fine in silver until the FED/Treasury made him an offer he couldn't refuse.....to get out. Bernanke didn't need Hunt Brothers 2 on his watch. Warren had the right idea but I'm sure old "Pat" Paulsen felt it was unpatriotic. And in hindsight, it was a fine investment move.
Why waste a C note on a 2 year bet when I can put that into silver and come out with a better return? And I'm the one holding the effective "bet."
Deadhorse, I'm surprised you wasted all that ink trying to destigmatize Thestig. It could be an alt for Pharmer or Dollardude.
<< <i>I'm shocked that smoe big talkers can't pony up a c-note for a 2 year bet. I'd assume the way they talked that they could sneeze and use a c-note to wipe their noses. I'd take the action but I'm on the same side as Coinlt.
Big talkers >>
That is indeed funny. If I'm not mistaken by reducing the time and increasing the appreciation amount--4% over 6 months instead of 10% over 2 years, I made the bet more advantageous for the dollar bears.
Seems all the bears walked away from that. Where is the conviction?
I couldnt give a flying donut where the dollar goes, just as long as it goes somewhere.
<< <i>I'm shocked that smoe big talkers can't pony up a c-note for a 2 year bet. I'd assume the way they talked that they could sneeze and use a c-note to wipe their noses. I'd take the action but I'm on the same side as Coinlt.
Big talkers >>
That is indeed funny. If I'm not mistaken by reducing the time and increasing the appreciation amount--4% over 6 months instead of 10% over 2 years, I made the bet more advantageous for the dollar bears.
Seems all the bears walked away from that. Where is the conviction?
I couldnt give a flying donut where the dollar goes, just as long as it goes somewhere. >>
So you're betting on US dollar volatility instead of direction. In that case, why take the bet? The longer the time frame, the more the fundamentals (trade and budget deficit)rule which is bad for the US dollar. 2 years is better than 6 months for dollar bears especially considering the G7 prop up coming and I suspect you know that.
There are LOTS of ways to prop up the dollar. The IMF propped up the Euro less than a decade or so ago. You dont think we have free markets do you?
There is interevention and there WILL be further intervention.
It wont matter though.
I am surprised more people havent jumped on either!! It isnt so much about the money as it is bragging rights. Perhaps people are scared to think how many dollars 100 of todays dollars will be two years from now.
J >>
ways that will work.....??? i think we agree it's not easy
ps i just bought prepaid gas cards for all my employees...you'd a thunk they just got an ounce of gold (Joe Lunchbucket and Sally Kitchen, mentality)
And I see fishcooker is a fan of ETFs and ETNs. Its the only way to go
The only way to go? I don't see the distinction between physical metal and SLV in terms of return, unless you think that you can time the market consistantly. I don't see metals as a trading vehicle, so I see the ETF as an unnecessarily risky derivative of the real thing.
I don't see the ETF as having any purpose unless and until you already have a position in physical silver such that your core position won't be affected no matter what happens to your ETF holdings. If you want to speculate in paper, you don't have to limit it to the silver ETF - any paper that lends itself to low cost electronic trading will do.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i> don't see the distinction between physical metal and SLV in terms of return >>
I bought rounds at 11.80 and paid spot for them. I also bought SLV around the same time. The SLV is at about 17.50 an ounce (175 a share) at the same time I am selling my rounds at $20 each (Ebay).
The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast. Then , as usual COMEX and TOCOM will start to change the rules to protect thier big players.
The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast. Then , as usual COMEX and TOCOM will start to change the rules to protect thier big players.
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
I believe the term is " force majeure" . Thats when they throw up thier hands and walk about from vastly short positions that are 10 bucks a ounce under water.
The increase in oil prices will be an adequate reason to say that mining the silver to cover thier positions is too expenses due to circumstances "beyond thier control" (high oil). Then the counterparties will be left holding the paper.
I dont play on margin anyway. Too scary for my weak heart.
For those of you who think the dollar will change the trend I wish, I'd like to hear the reason. They will print huge amountsto get us out of this mess. The huge defecits at the federal and local level and the need to keep rates low for homes to recover are on one side and a lot of talk is on the other.
Lowrates mean a weak dollar. Who benefits from low rates the holder of the debt (foreigners) or the debtor(US gov, homeowners, states etc.)
The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast.
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
Don't think for a second that the market manipulators won't try to hurt you. Paper holdings just make it easy for them to do it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast. Then , as usual COMEX and TOCOM will start to change the rules to protect thier big players.
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
This should all get very interesting soon. >>
No doubt, regardless of your position, we ARE in for interesting times.
<< <i>Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
This should all get very interesting soon. >>
The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Real physical shortages are already showing up in industry.
The lid is going to have to come off this pressure cooker sooner than later.
Even when the rare 100 ounce bar does show up at a B&M around here anymore, they are getting $20+ for it and have multiple buyers.
I've been offered, but for now I'm holding out. The last time I saw a quantity of 10 oz. bars they were asking $1.80 over spot, that was weeks ago and I passed on that one as well.
Gold? I can buy that for below spot there is such a glut of it. I did give in and buy 18 ounces the other day, modern bullion, $12 under spot.
Beats putting it into paper, in my mind. I refuse to be involved in the Silver ETF, that just feeds into the manipulators hands.
We live in interesting, make that bizarre, times.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Stock fund -8.78% Global Equities -8.65% Growth fund -10.28% Inflation linked bond +5.02%
Watch out silver dogs...we have seen this movie before, go easy and don't lean out over the rail too far. From what information I have been gleaning from B&M visits and the other usual sources/suppliers, we may well be seeing the beginning of a shortage of silv PM. Silv eagles are very good as are wrapped 10 ozers from the majors. Do take delivery but do not short your other savings or investment strategies just to have a play. Steady as she goes.
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies.
It's the only way to go until the physical market explodes and people find out that the ETF's are just pawns of the FED and commercials. At that point the ETF's will be scrambling to find PM's and won't be able to. The word "bust" comes to mind. Trade away but know that someday the silver ETF goes kaboom. Gold and other ETF's will probably follow that lead.
If that happens I will deal with it at that time. In the meantime, while other lament, I will take advantage of the 10% weekly moves. And I only trade the SLV or GLD on occasion
For full disclosure- as others have already done- coins, bullion, junk silver, represents about 5% of my financial assets so I have no reason to tout or berate the topic.
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies. >>
Not quite sure I follow. If the PMs are up because the dollar is weak, then is there another reason why you think PMs would stay strong vs a stronger dollar?
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies. >>
Not quite sure I follow. If the PMs are up because the dollar is weak, then is there another reason why you think PMs would stay strong vs a stronger dollar? >>
Stong dollar it's time to sell IMO. But look at what fix were in and printing more and more money to get into a hole. This isn't stong dollar policy but when they really want to let thing go as they may and put our house back into order then it's time to start to sell PM's IMO. I afraid they've went to far so the next 4 or 5 years you won't have to worry too much....GREED KILLS.
My concern is widespread global inflation. Believe it or not, the USA "enjoys" some of the lowest inflation in the world. Can foreign govts maintain a strong currency policy, while letting their economies dissolve into oblivion?
Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation?
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
It's impossible to prop the dollar.
They've undermined it through deficit spending since even before the Great Society and "guns and butter". It's been sold down the river for endless quantities of pork and the chickens are coming home to roost. The FED hid this damage from public view with their magic but the real world always catches up with the "magicians".
The only way to prop the dollar involves actions that are anathema to politicians and most of the electorate. It requires rationalization of the systems and institutions that are sucking up wealth at ever increasing rates. It requires that Congress quit invent- ing new ways to spend money.
No, it can't happen. We'll get more prestidigitation by the FED which will stave off any emergency for a few more years. They might sell gold to take the wind out of the sails of the commodity markets. They might devalue other currencies to make ours stronger in comparison. They will continue to print money to shore up the weak areas as they appear and this will become increasingly inflationary.
If you really want to worry about something then don't worry about metals going up or down or even shortages and brain drain; worry about what happens when money vel- ocity increases do to the monetary base when the economy turns back around.
<< <i>Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation? >>
I think it depends. Does the high inflation come with accompanying high wage increases and high interest rates paid on savings? If so, inflation isn't a devastating thing. But when it comes with stagnant wages and near-zero returns on "safe" investments like savings accounts, T-bills and CDs, it's a killer.
<< <i>Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation? >>
I think it depends. Does the high inflation come with accompanying high wage increases and high interest rates paid on savings? If so, inflation isn't a devastating thing. But when it comes with stagnant wages and near-zero returns on "safe" investments like savings accounts, T-bills and CDs, it's a killer. >>
Inflation always destroys.
It destroys by propping up weak companies and tearing down well run companies. It causes inefficiencies throughout the economy because the ability to raise prices is not based on the quality of the goods and services but on market and governmental forces.
Does the high inflation come with accompanying high wage increases and high interest rates paid on savings? If so, inflation isn't a devastating thing.
True. The problem is that unlike in the 70's, we're faced with global competition so there aren't going to be high wage increases. Therefore, any inflation will be painful.
It's never good, that's true, but in terms of economic impact it's even worse when wages are stagnant. Of course, in the typical case, high inflation with stagnant incomes aren't a long-term sustainable combination.
Depends how you define inflation. The US had years of high housing inflation but that wasn't counted in the official inflation numbers.
I think the dollar wil be propped up temporarily by foreign central banks buying dollars like Japan has done in the past. That will be bad for silver/gold. Longer term, it's out of their hands. Europe's economy will be crushed if the exchange rate stays where it's at. There was an article on Bloomberg a few weeks ago stating that the real pain threshold for European industries is 1.50. Countries rich in natural resources are a good long term bet since China, India and Vietnam will need those commodities for further industrializing their country.
<< Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation? >>
A strong economy and low inflation tend to be correlated. If things begin to spiral towards inflation, as appears to be happening now, it is always better in the long run to fight inflation sooner rather than later.
I do not agree that foreign competition inevitably hurts American real wages. In fact, I think there is abundant evidence that foreign competition (whether it is from a countries with high levels of intellectual capital, like Japan, or countries with lower levels of intellectual capital, like Mexico) tends to cause us to work harder, be more innovative, improve our efficiency and intellectual capital, and therefore enhance our real wages.
All of our current economic problems are directly related to two things, first the idea that taking capital from the producers in our society and giving it to the non-producers in our society i.e., socialism, and second that a GOBAL economy would bring peace and prosperity to the planet. These two things are destroying the American way of life.
Not much can be done on either of these issues at this point and a collapse is eminent in the next few years, so it is up to each individual family to protect itself, until reorganization can occur.
In the 150-year period that our county was the strongest, we produced nearly everything we needed ourselves and sold almost all of it to each other. We had the attitude that we just wanted our freedom and wanted to be left alone. When we finally get back to that “America first” idea, and get away from these socialistic ideas, America will begin to grow and prosper once again, but not until that time!
We are going to have a devastating period of stagflation, and it has just started.
America had its warning of what things could become in the late 70’s and 80’s. That period was over come with the incorrect changes in the system and those changes have now put us on a course to total melt down.
Over 60% of the adult U.S. voting population is now on one type of government dole or another, and none of those voters will ever vote to NOT get their checks.
Our trillion-dollar debt per annum will continue to accelerate until it becomes multi trillion dollars and the dollar will continue to devalue as the government prints more and more money. This is going to get real nasty folks so stand back!
I agree the problem is overspending by the government. However, you only need to look back a few years to see when we had a surplus at the federal level. Wars are VERY expensive in both direct and indirect costs.
I would take issue with your 60 percent number on the "dole" as social security is included and all of those folks contributed for many years and earned that benefit. Most would have been much better off by investing 6 percent of their earnings over their lifetime and taking an annuity.
The dollar is getting beaten by the euro and if you look at those governments, there is a far higher degree of socialism in their economies than ours. The main difference is in "Defense" spending. We spent many (>40) years with troops in Japan and Germany, building their economy by our expenditures in their country via troop placements.
The problems can be fixed, but will anyone step up and take on the real issues.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
There is social welfare and there is corporate welfare. The former is often a distraction from the latter. Look at the tax code too. Why is it so complicated? Competing special interests made it that way. The whole game is one of continual redistribution of wealth. Tax one person's dollar more than another's. Divert the revenue stream here for sometimes absurd justifications. The victims are those who either don't see the man behind the curtain or don't seem to care what he is doing.
"Over 60% of the adult U.S. voting population is now on one type of government dole or another, and none of those voters will ever vote to NOT get their checks."
I'm not sure of your accuracy here, not that I am questioning the numbers though. The other part of the equation is the number of government programs that the taxpaying public (those that actually write checks TO the ir s) gets to support beyond the direct aid checks. Food subsidies, housing subsidies, education subsidies, women and minority owned business subsidies, health care subsidies...all of which are paid to state and local agencies by the federal government to assist the impoverished or disadvantaged people via the various state/local funded agencies whose buildings and staff we also support with public money. It's a huge machine that just consumes and then begs us to have more compassion and to give more and if we don't give more, they just tax more by creating more programs and more offices and more agencies. It's not only the people that get the aid, it's a great employment opportunity for all the employees of the agencies that dole the dole and it's a big number.
Remember, you are profoundly unpatriotic if you don't keep working your butt off until you're at least 70 because you are robbing the people that depend on you paying into the system for them. Yeah, keep thinkin' that way because the wheels are about to fall off of this pull toy. We are indeed facing a death spiral for aid programs and freebie distribution agencies. The money simply is not going to be there. We should be able to measure this by watching for a spike in local robberies and burglaries as those that get disenfranchised become desperate for money to keep their lifestyle where it has been. Pinned down on the tarmac by sniper fire, indeed.
"This is going to get real nasty folks so stand back!"
mhammerman, the country has been marching along into socialism for decades. So why should this be a surprise to you. MOST Americans cannot even define the underlying principles between socialism and freedom.
On another note
VietNamNet Bridge – It is estimated that some 600 tonnes of gold have been imported into Vietnam. Only a small part of the volume has been deposited at banks or crossed the borders again. How much gold are Vietnamese people keeping under their pillows, then?
Regarding earlier comments on globalization -- I don't think anyone realistically expects globalization to bring peace to humanity, but it has undeniably brought tremendous prosperity to American citizens. Globalization has dramtically increased competition, innovation, and growth. The remarkable innovations in computing, telecommunications, transportation, pharmaceuticals, finance -- the list goes on and on -- would not have happened if the US had promoted an isolationist policy after WW2. The current skewness and risk in the global economy are not an inevitable result of globalization, and it would be a tremendous mistake to believe that we will be better off with a dramatica reduction in global trade in good, services, and ideas.
I do not agree that foreign competition inevitably hurts American real wages. In fact, I think there is abundant evidence that foreign competition (whether it is from a countries with high levels of intellectual capital, like Japan, or countries with lower levels of intellectual capital, like Mexico) tends to cause us to work harder, be more innovative, improve our efficiency and intellectual capital, and therefore enhance our real wages.
I agree that competition is positive in some of the ways you cite. However, I think it's undeniable that if you have software engineers earning $100k in the US doing the same work that Indians or Chinese will do for $20k, that imbalance cannot exist forever. I don't care how hard the American engineers work, the market will find it's level, and I'm fairly sure it will be less than $100k.
Boy the news just keeps getting better today Looks like quite a price hike on food coming...........I wonder if we'll join the crowd? No were the US and have to support the world no matter what others do.
30's Depression Story - If you had money in a bank, the bank would issue you a voucher for the amount you had in the bank (and apparently could withdraw at a later time; however, if you needed your money (like most people did) and wanted to withdraw your money, the bank would only give you 10% of the money. A lot of people only got 10% of the amount they had on deposit. Some people who had cash (some bankers, hotel barrons, etc.) bought these vouchers from those who couldn't afford to hold them and made tons of money when they were allowed to cash them in (at face value) at a later time when things recovered.
To me, FDIC insurance doesn't mean alot when there is a run on the banks.
"Over 60% of the adult U.S. voting population is now on one type of government dole or another, and none of those voters will ever vote to NOT get their checks."
Don't forget those in the military, those working for companies that supply the war, those who work for companies that have any contracts with our government (local, state, or federal), those who were added as security since the Homeland Security and Patriot acts have been adopted, the rent-a-soldiers in Iraq and elsewhere, those who fix our streets and roads, construction companies tht build government buildings, etc.. The stated 60% if probably low. What I can't figure out is why, when the government seems to be financially involved in all these companies, do we not simply nationalize those companies and save the cost of paying big wages to management types and shareholders. Our current system differs little from socialism - When the socialism benefits the poor, it's pointed out as Unamerican...when the socialism that we've adopted benefits business and the wealthy, we call it the free-market system.
“I agree the problem is overspending by the government. However, you only need to look back a few years to see when we had a surplus.”
Deep coin, this is incorrect, we have not had even an annul surplus in this county in many decades. Regardless of what the lying politicians said, what they never told us is that they were borrowing all the S.C., Federal Pension money etc. and spending that also. It is easy to claim a surplus if you don’t count what you borrowed from the American people!
“I would take issue with your 60 percent number on the "dole" as social security is included and all of those folks contributed for many years and earned that benefit.”
I am not counting folks that paid money in and are now getting it back.
I consider being on the dole a situation whereby you are getting money from the government for free, no pay ins, no labor, no anything.
In this county at the present time 50% of the adult working population pays no Federal income Tax, and 40% percent of those get back money they never paid in. If you add to that all the folks on welfare, medical disabilities, and all other assistance programs you can get to 60% with no problem. If you added to that the S.C. folks who have now collected way more than they put in the number would grow.
“Regarding earlier comments on globalization -- I don't think anyone realistically expects globalization to bring peace to humanity, but it has undeniably brought tremendous prosperity to American citizens. The remarkable innovations in computing, telecommunications, transportation, pharmaceuticals, finance.
Higashiyama
Who says we would have not had that anyway? If someone in Japan invents something fantastic, does that mean we cannot have here? It certainly does not mean that we cannot make it here!
No one seems to remember this, but at one time in this country there was no income tax and most of the revenue that came into the Federal government came from Tariffs on foreign goods.
Jim Willie on WARREN BUFFET & HIS SILVER FUMBLE ( a different look from what commonly has been written):
This title could also be “GOLD EARNS NO YIELD” instead. But my choice is to highlight the deception of popular Warren Buffet, who with 90% likelihood lied through his teeth two years ago. A common deception theme circulated by the lapdog press is that gold metal investment earns no yield, no income, a virtual dead asset. How are debt securities doing these days, the ones that offer 5% to 8% in yields? The lesson with mortgage related assets is that yield matters little when principal suffers big losses in value. Exactly. That is why gold is a good investment, up in value considerably in the last few years. The Buffet story on his silver fumble involved an important story within the story. No deep inclusion of his relationship with Hank Greenberg of AIG will be provided. Greenberg found himself in trouble, but has influential connections. Hank and Warren are close friends. What follows is my conjecture, knowing the potential and knowing the extremely likely learning curve extended from Hank to Warren. AIG is part of the gold cartel, which keeps the gold price down by usage of the illicit gold futures contract game. Buffet owned in Berkshire Hathaway 129 million ounces of silver, bought under $4 per ounce a long time ago. He boasted of the smart buy. It did not just sit idly. He earned a yield off the metal position by selling forward contract options. This is no different from selling option calls on forward contracts for Cisco Systems or General Electric. The practice earns a yield, an income stream, sometimes hefty. The risk is that the price moves up too fast, and the holder of the options (other guy) exercises the right of taking your stock, or in Buffet’s case the silver bullion, at the option contract price.
My guess is Buffet sold option calls at a $7 price when silver was selling at a $5 price. The silver price moved up rapidly, to his surprise. That left him with two choices. He could buy back the contracts, his sold options calls, at a big loss. Or he could permit the option contract holder to call away his position, selling to that party for the contracted $7 price. The first choice would mean announcement of a loss to Berkshire Hathaway holders, who would naively expect a profit from silver going from $4 to $9. An open admission like that would have exposed Buffet to criticism for mismanaging a silver position, but more importantly, for bringing attention to how silver metal DOES earns a yield. He made the cowardly second choice. He said to his shareholders, a bold lie in my view, that he sold his silver position too early. He did not sell it willingly. He sold it from exercise of a failed option call, written calls, used widely to earn income, like a dividend yield, a standard practice. Buffet did not understand the silver market. More could lurk behind the scenes to this story. Buffet might have been forced to sell his position, to satisfy Greenberg and his cartel buddies, who were desperate to find sufficient physical silver during broad shortages. Greenberg was under investigation for fraud. Buffet might have been involved. Buffett might have wiggled out of trouble by giving in to the regulatory authorities, letting his silver position be sold to help supply. We may never know the truth. My version is much more credible than Warren’s, that he just sold too early. Nonsense!
The below link has Willie's full article on various shenanigans on economic and gold manipulations. A good 15 minute primer for those new to this thread. The first part showing CPI well-divergent from BLS CPI is eye-opening. They've been growing apart since 1983 when the first tweaks were made to ensure that double digit CPI's would (hopefully) be a thing of the past. And right now at 4% (vs 11% on the old system), they're succeeding.
It is not so much an issue of where it is made, but the efficiency of the overall system. There is a tremendous and almost unambiguous body of evidence showing the benefits of globalization, and and equally convincing body of evidence showing the damage done by protectionism, tariffs, etc.
The only arguments against globalization are philosophical (eg - small earth), or anecdotal. No one, regardless of political views, who has seriously studied the effects of globalization denies that it has increased America's aggregate standard of living.
I vote for a Star Trek economy where greed and capitalism was non-extistent. This thread is too depressing to open up anymore. Had to treat myself to a Philips Seafood Buffet at lunch today just to bring my self out of the doldrums. At least I am helping out the economy a little. Their is a wealth of knowledge in this thread and it was a great read.
If you hang around a while longer, you will really see some real doldrums as we enter 2009-2011. Most of the news around here is still comparatively "good."
Thanks CoinLT, both a good read. I see some copying going around on the 2nd article as others have apparently quoted that material w/o reference.
f you hang around a while longer, you will really see some real doldrums as we enter 2009-2011. Most of the news around here is still comparatively "good."
Ha Ha Ha
RR I love this, see we do still have a sense of humor!!!
Higashiyama
I am sorry my friend, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Are our lives really easier than our grandparents?
Was it worth our progress to force all our women folk into the work place?
Is our travel around our own country as easy is it once was?
Are we as a country more in debt to the rest of the world as the price we have paid for globalization?
Are our children getting the education they should, considering the amount of money we are spending per child?
Is it better that we have no factories to produce anything of hard value, and no trades to pass onto our son’s?
Are we all better off now that we pay 50 to 60% of all the money we make each year to one government or another?
Are we better off as a “service economy” in which 33% of the working population has to work for one government or another because there are no other jobs for them?
It is my belief that all of the real advancements in technology, communication etc. made in the last 2 decades we would have had anyway. Countries around the world that had very little to do with any of this innovation still enjoy the same tech advances we do.
We are having class warfare in this county because the middle class working folks are getting squeezed out of the work place with no one to turn to but the government for handouts, and the problem with that is this cannot last. The government cannot just continue to keep the MOB happy by printing more paper money to send out in the mail.
It is not so much an issue of where it is made, but the efficiency of the overall system. There is a tremendous and almost unambiguous body of evidence showing the benefits of globalization, and and equally convincing body of evidence showing the damage done by protectionism, tariffs, etc.
The only arguments against globalization are philosophical (eg - small earth), or anecdotal. No one, regardless of political views, who has seriously studied the effects of globalization denies that it has increased America's aggregate standard of living. >>
Yes.
It has also increased the standard of living in many other countries even more than it has here. I would agree that there are some imbalances beginning to show up. When you see Chinese dishwashing liquid in the supermarket then you know some- thing screwy is going on.
We do have serious problems which need to be addressed but they are unrelated to globalization.
Comments
siliconvalleycoins.com
It's the only way to go until the physical market explodes and people find out that the ETF's are just pawns of the FED and commercials. At that point the ETF's will be scrambling to find PM's and won't be able to. The word "bust" comes to mind. Trade away but know that someday the silver ETF goes kaboom. Gold and other ETF's will probably follow that lead.
I'm sure Warren was doing just fine in silver until the FED/Treasury made him an offer he couldn't refuse.....to get out. Bernanke didn't need Hunt Brothers 2 on his watch. Warren had the right idea but I'm sure old "Pat" Paulsen felt it was unpatriotic. And in hindsight, it was a fine investment move.
Why waste a C note on a 2 year bet when I can put that into silver and come out with a better return? And I'm the one holding the effective "bet."
Deadhorse, I'm surprised you wasted all that ink trying to destigmatize Thestig. It could be an alt for Pharmer or Dollardude.
roadrunner
<< <i>I'm shocked that smoe big talkers can't pony up a c-note for a 2 year bet. I'd assume the way they talked that they could sneeze and use a c-note to wipe their noses. I'd take the action but I'm on the same side as Coinlt.
Big talkers
That is indeed funny. If I'm not mistaken by reducing the time and increasing the appreciation amount--4% over 6 months instead of 10% over 2 years, I made the bet more advantageous for the dollar bears.
Seems all the bears walked away from that. Where is the conviction?
I couldnt give a flying donut where the dollar goes, just as long as it goes somewhere.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm shocked that smoe big talkers can't pony up a c-note for a 2 year bet. I'd assume the way they talked that they could sneeze and use a c-note to wipe their noses. I'd take the action but I'm on the same side as Coinlt.
Big talkers
That is indeed funny. If I'm not mistaken by reducing the time and increasing the appreciation amount--4% over 6 months instead of 10% over 2 years, I made the bet more advantageous for the dollar bears.
Seems all the bears walked away from that. Where is the conviction?
I couldnt give a flying donut where the dollar goes, just as long as it goes somewhere. >>
So you're betting on US dollar volatility instead of direction. In that case, why take the bet? The longer the time frame, the more the fundamentals (trade and budget deficit)rule which is bad for the US dollar. 2 years is better than 6 months for dollar bears especially considering the G7 prop up coming and I suspect you know that.
<< <i>57,
There are LOTS of ways to prop up the dollar. The IMF propped up the Euro less than a decade or so ago. You dont think we have free markets do you?
There is interevention and there WILL be further intervention.
It wont matter though.
I am surprised more people havent jumped on either!! It isnt so much about the money as it is bragging rights. Perhaps people are scared to think how many dollars 100 of todays dollars will be two years from now.
J >>
ways that will work...
ps i just bought prepaid gas cards for all my employees...you'd a thunk they just got an ounce of gold (Joe Lunchbucket and Sally Kitchen, mentality)
The only way to go? I don't see the distinction between physical metal and SLV in terms of return, unless you think that you can time the market consistantly. I don't see metals as a trading vehicle, so I see the ETF as an unnecessarily risky derivative of the real thing.
I don't see the ETF as having any purpose unless and until you already have a position in physical silver such that your core position won't be affected no matter what happens to your ETF holdings. If you want to speculate in paper, you don't have to limit it to the silver ETF - any paper that lends itself to low cost electronic trading will do.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i> don't see the distinction between physical metal and SLV in terms of return >>
I bought rounds at 11.80 and paid spot for them. I also bought SLV around the same time. The SLV is at about 17.50 an ounce (175 a share) at the same time I am selling my rounds at $20 each (Ebay).
The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast. Then , as usual COMEX and TOCOM will start to change the rules to protect thier big players.
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
This should all get very interesting soon.
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
The increase in oil prices will be an adequate reason to say that mining the silver to cover thier positions is too expenses due to circumstances "beyond thier control" (high oil). Then the counterparties will be left holding the paper.
I dont play on margin anyway. Too scary for my weak heart.
For those of you who think the dollar will change the trend I wish, I'd like to hear the reason. They will print huge amountsto get us out of this mess. The huge defecits at the federal and local level and the need to keep rates low for homes to recover are on one side and a lot of talk is on the other.
Lowrates mean a weak dollar. Who benefits from low rates the holder of the debt (foreigners) or the debtor(US gov, homeowners, states etc.)
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
Don't think for a second that the market manipulators won't try to hurt you. Paper holdings just make it easy for them to do it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The physical market is disconnecting from the manipulated paper market. When they start to drain COMEX to sell at the higher "real market" rate the prices will advance real fast. Then , as usual COMEX and TOCOM will start to change the rules to protect thier big players.
Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
This should all get very interesting soon. >>
No doubt, regardless of your position, we ARE in for interesting times.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Coyn, this is what they did in the palladium market when the Russians decided not to sell palladium. The exchange simply changed the rules and the short sellers defaulted......Do not accept paper metal, take delivery.......
This should all get very interesting soon. >>
The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Real physical shortages are already showing up in industry.
The lid is going to have to come off this pressure cooker sooner than later.
Even when the rare 100 ounce bar does show up at a B&M around here anymore, they are getting $20+ for it and have multiple buyers.
I've been offered, but for now I'm holding out. The last time I saw a quantity of 10 oz. bars they were asking $1.80 over spot, that was weeks ago and I passed on that one as well.
Gold? I can buy that for below spot there is such a glut of it. I did give in and buy 18 ounces the other day, modern bullion, $12 under spot.
Beats putting it into paper, in my mind. I refuse to be involved in the Silver ETF, that just feeds into the manipulators hands.
We live in interesting, make that bizarre, times.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Returns since 1/1/08
Stock fund -8.78%
Global Equities -8.65%
Growth fund -10.28%
Inflation linked bond +5.02%
Watch out silver dogs...we have seen this movie before, go easy and don't lean out over the rail too far. From what information I have been gleaning from B&M visits and the other usual sources/suppliers, we may well be seeing the beginning of a shortage of silv PM. Silv eagles are very good as are wrapped 10 ozers from the majors. Do take delivery but do not short your other savings or investment strategies just to have a play. Steady as she goes.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies.
If that happens I will deal with it at that time. In the meantime, while other lament, I will take advantage of the 10% weekly moves. And I only trade the SLV or GLD on occasion
For full disclosure- as others have already done- coins, bullion, junk silver, represents about 5% of my financial assets so I have no reason to tout or berate the topic.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
I am just wondering HOW it will be propped..or pooped.....then the answer to your question will show itself.
to requote....."these are interesting times"
<< <i>
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies. >>
Not quite sure I follow. If the PMs are up because the dollar is weak, then is there another reason why you think PMs would stay strong vs a stronger dollar?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
Nope the devaluation of the dollar is why gold/silver is on the raise in the first place. Who knows it may be near the same price on strong currencies. >>
Not quite sure I follow. If the PMs are up because the dollar is weak, then is there another reason why you think PMs would stay strong vs a stronger dollar? >>
Stong dollar it's time to sell IMO. But look at what fix were in and printing more and more money to get into a hole. This isn't stong dollar policy but when they really want to let thing go as they may and put our house back into order then it's time to start to sell PM's IMO. I afraid they've went to far so the next 4 or 5 years you won't have to worry too much....GREED KILLS.
My concern is widespread global inflation. Believe it or not, the USA "enjoys" some of the lowest inflation in the world. Can foreign govts maintain a strong currency policy, while letting their economies dissolve into oblivion?
Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>For those who think the dollar is about to be propped, Do you think this will negatively affect the prices of gold and silver? >>
It's impossible to prop the dollar.
They've undermined it through deficit spending since even before the Great Society
and "guns and butter". It's been sold down the river for endless quantities of pork
and the chickens are coming home to roost. The FED hid this damage from public view
with their magic but the real world always catches up with the "magicians".
The only way to prop the dollar involves actions that are anathema to politicians and
most of the electorate. It requires rationalization of the systems and institutions that
are sucking up wealth at ever increasing rates. It requires that Congress quit invent-
ing new ways to spend money.
No, it can't happen. We'll get more prestidigitation by the FED which will stave off any
emergency for a few more years. They might sell gold to take the wind out of the sails
of the commodity markets. They might devalue other currencies to make ours stronger
in comparison. They will continue to print money to shore up the weak areas as they
appear and this will become increasingly inflationary.
If you really want to worry about something then don't worry about metals going up or
down or even shortages and brain drain; worry about what happens when money vel-
ocity increases do to the monetary base when the economy turns back around.
<< <i>Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation? >>
I think it depends. Does the high inflation come with accompanying high wage increases and high interest rates paid on savings? If so, inflation isn't a devastating thing. But when it comes with stagnant wages and near-zero returns on "safe" investments like savings accounts, T-bills and CDs, it's a killer.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it better to have a strong economy, or fight inflation? >>
I think it depends. Does the high inflation come with accompanying high wage increases and high interest rates paid on savings? If so, inflation isn't a devastating thing. But when it comes with stagnant wages and near-zero returns on "safe" investments like savings accounts, T-bills and CDs, it's a killer. >>
Inflation always destroys.
It destroys by propping up weak companies and tearing down well run companies. It causes inefficiencies throughout the economy because the ability to raise prices is not based on the quality of the goods and services but on market and governmental forces.
True. The problem is that unlike in the 70's, we're faced with global competition so there aren't going to be high wage increases. Therefore, any inflation will be painful.
<< <i>Inflation always destroys. >>
It's never good, that's true, but in terms of economic impact it's even worse when wages are stagnant. Of course, in the typical case, high inflation with stagnant incomes aren't a long-term sustainable combination.
I think the dollar wil be propped up temporarily by foreign central banks buying dollars like Japan has done in the past. That will be bad for silver/gold. Longer term, it's out of their hands. Europe's economy will be crushed if the exchange rate stays where it's at. There was an article on Bloomberg a few weeks ago stating that the real pain threshold for European industries is 1.50. Countries rich in natural resources are a good long term bet since China, India and Vietnam will need those commodities for further industrializing their country.
A strong economy and low inflation tend to be correlated. If things begin to spiral towards inflation, as appears to be happening now, it is always better in the long run to fight inflation sooner rather than later.
I do not agree that foreign competition inevitably hurts American real wages. In fact, I think there is abundant evidence that foreign competition (whether it is from a countries with high levels of intellectual capital, like Japan, or countries with lower levels of intellectual capital, like Mexico) tends to cause us to work harder, be more innovative, improve our efficiency and intellectual capital, and therefore enhance our real wages.
All of our current economic problems are directly related to two things, first the idea that taking capital from the producers in our society and giving it to the non-producers in our society i.e., socialism, and second that a GOBAL economy would bring peace and prosperity to the planet. These two things are destroying the American way of life.
Not much can be done on either of these issues at this point and a collapse is eminent in the next few years, so it is up to each individual family to protect itself, until reorganization can occur.
In the 150-year period that our county was the strongest, we produced nearly everything we needed ourselves and sold almost all of it to each other. We had the attitude that we just wanted our freedom and wanted to be left alone. When we finally get back to that “America first” idea, and get away from these socialistic ideas, America will begin to grow and prosper once again, but not until that time!
We are going to have a devastating period of stagflation, and it has just started.
America had its warning of what things could become in the late 70’s and 80’s. That period was over come with the incorrect changes in the system and those changes have now put us on a course to total melt down.
Over 60% of the adult U.S. voting population is now on one type of government dole or another, and none of those voters will ever vote to NOT get their checks.
Our trillion-dollar debt per annum will continue to accelerate until it becomes multi trillion dollars and the dollar will continue to devalue as the government prints more and more money. This is going to get real nasty folks so stand back!
I would take issue with your 60 percent number on the "dole" as social security is included and all of those folks contributed for many years and earned that benefit. Most would have been much better off by investing 6 percent of their earnings over their lifetime and taking an annuity.
The dollar is getting beaten by the euro and if you look at those governments, there is a far higher degree of socialism in their economies than ours. The main difference is in "Defense" spending. We spent many (>40) years with troops in Japan and Germany, building their economy by our expenditures in their country via troop placements.
The problems can be fixed, but will anyone step up and take on the real issues.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
I'm not sure of your accuracy here, not that I am questioning the numbers though. The other part of the equation is the number of government programs that the taxpaying public (those that actually write checks TO the ir s) gets to support beyond the direct aid checks. Food subsidies, housing subsidies, education subsidies, women and minority owned business subsidies, health care subsidies...all of which are paid to state and local agencies by the federal government to assist the impoverished or disadvantaged people via the various state/local funded agencies whose buildings and staff we also support with public money. It's a huge machine that just consumes and then begs us to have more compassion and to give more and if we don't give more, they just tax more by creating more programs and more offices and more agencies. It's not only the people that get the aid, it's a great employment opportunity for all the employees of the agencies that dole the dole and it's a big number.
Remember, you are profoundly unpatriotic if you don't keep working your butt off until you're at least 70 because you are robbing the people that depend on you paying into the system for them. Yeah, keep thinkin' that way because the wheels are about to fall off of this pull toy. We are indeed facing a death spiral for aid programs and freebie distribution agencies. The money simply is not going to be there. We should be able to measure this by watching for a spike in local robberies and burglaries as those that get disenfranchised become desperate for money to keep their lifestyle where it has been. Pinned down on the tarmac by sniper fire, indeed.
"This is going to get real nasty folks so stand back!"
Yepper.
On another note
VietNamNet Bridge – It is estimated that some 600 tonnes of gold have been imported into Vietnam. Only a small part of the volume has been deposited at banks or crossed the borders again. How much gold are Vietnamese people keeping under their pillows, then?
How much gold do Vietnamese keep under their pillows?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I agree that competition is positive in some of the ways you cite. However, I think it's undeniable that if you have software engineers earning $100k in the US doing the same work that Indians or Chinese will do for $20k, that imbalance cannot exist forever. I don't care how hard the American engineers work, the market will find it's level, and I'm fairly sure it will be less than $100k.
How Safe is My FDIC-Insured Bank Account?
Biggest grain exporters halt foreign sales
<< <i>How safe is your FDIC account in a banking crisis?
How Safe is My FDIC-Insured Bank Account? >>
FYI,
30's Depression Story - If you had money in a bank, the bank would issue you a voucher for the amount you had in the bank (and apparently could withdraw at a later time; however, if you needed your money (like most people did) and wanted to withdraw your money, the bank would only give you 10% of the money. A lot of people only got 10% of the amount they had on deposit. Some people who had cash (some bankers, hotel barrons, etc.) bought these vouchers from those who couldn't afford to hold them and made tons of money when they were allowed to cash them in (at face value) at a later time when things recovered.
To me, FDIC insurance doesn't mean alot when there is a run on the banks.
SoundPoint
Don't forget those in the military, those working for companies that supply the war, those who work for companies that have any contracts with our government (local, state, or federal), those who were added as security since the Homeland Security and Patriot acts have been adopted, the rent-a-soldiers in Iraq and elsewhere, those who fix our streets and roads, construction companies tht build government buildings, etc.. The stated 60% if probably low. What I can't figure out is why, when the government seems to be financially involved in all these companies, do we not simply nationalize those companies and save the cost of paying big wages to management types and shareholders. Our current system differs little from socialism - When the socialism benefits the poor, it's pointed out as Unamerican...when the socialism that we've adopted benefits business and the wealthy, we call it the free-market system.
“I agree the problem is overspending by the government. However, you only need to look back a few years to see when we had a surplus.”
Deep coin, this is incorrect, we have not had even an annul surplus in this county in many decades. Regardless of what the lying politicians said, what they never told us is that they were borrowing all the S.C., Federal Pension money etc. and spending that also. It is easy to claim a surplus if you don’t count what you borrowed from the American people!
“I would take issue with your 60 percent number on the "dole" as social security is included and all of those folks contributed for many years and earned that benefit.”
I am not counting folks that paid money in and are now getting it back.
I consider being on the dole a situation whereby you are getting money from the government for free, no pay ins, no labor, no anything.
In this county at the present time 50% of the adult working population pays no Federal income Tax, and 40% percent of those get back money they never paid in. If you add to that all the folks on welfare, medical disabilities, and all other assistance programs you can get to 60% with no problem. If you added to that the S.C. folks who have now collected way more than they put in the number would grow.
“Regarding earlier comments on globalization -- I don't think anyone realistically expects globalization to bring peace to humanity, but it has undeniably brought tremendous prosperity to American citizens. The remarkable innovations in computing, telecommunications, transportation, pharmaceuticals, finance.
Higashiyama
Who says we would have not had that anyway? If someone in Japan invents something fantastic, does that mean we cannot have here? It certainly does not mean that we cannot make it here!
No one seems to remember this, but at one time in this country there was no income tax and most of the revenue that came into the Federal government came from Tariffs on foreign goods.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
This title could also be “GOLD EARNS NO YIELD” instead. But my choice is to highlight the deception of popular Warren Buffet, who with 90% likelihood lied through his teeth two years ago. A common deception theme circulated by the lapdog press is that gold metal investment earns no yield, no income, a virtual dead asset. How are debt securities doing these days, the ones that offer 5% to 8% in yields? The lesson with mortgage related assets is that yield matters little when principal suffers big losses in value. Exactly. That is why gold is a good investment, up in value considerably in the last few years. The Buffet story on his silver fumble involved an important story within the story. No deep inclusion of his relationship with Hank Greenberg of AIG will be provided. Greenberg found himself in trouble, but has influential connections. Hank and Warren are close friends. What follows is my conjecture, knowing the potential and knowing the extremely likely learning curve extended from Hank to Warren. AIG is part of the gold cartel, which keeps the gold price down by usage of the illicit gold futures contract game. Buffet owned in Berkshire Hathaway 129 million ounces of silver, bought under $4 per ounce a long time ago. He boasted of the smart buy. It did not just sit idly. He earned a yield off the metal position by selling forward contract options. This is no different from selling option calls on forward contracts for Cisco Systems or General Electric. The practice earns a yield, an income stream, sometimes hefty. The risk is that the price moves up too fast, and the holder of the options (other guy) exercises the right of taking your stock, or in Buffet’s case the silver bullion, at the option contract price.
My guess is Buffet sold option calls at a $7 price when silver was selling at a $5 price. The silver price moved up rapidly, to his surprise. That left him with two choices. He could buy back the contracts, his sold options calls, at a big loss. Or he could permit the option contract holder to call away his position, selling to that party for the contracted $7 price. The first choice would mean announcement of a loss to Berkshire Hathaway holders, who would naively expect a profit from silver going from $4 to $9. An open admission like that would have exposed Buffet to criticism for mismanaging a silver position, but more importantly, for bringing attention to how silver metal DOES earns a yield. He made the cowardly second choice. He said to his shareholders, a bold lie in my view, that he sold his silver position too early. He did not sell it willingly. He sold it from exercise of a failed option call, written calls, used widely to earn income, like a dividend yield, a standard practice. Buffet did not understand the silver market. More could lurk behind the scenes to this story. Buffet might have been forced to sell his position, to satisfy Greenberg and his cartel buddies, who were desperate to find sufficient physical silver during broad shortages. Greenberg was under investigation for fraud. Buffet might have been involved. Buffett might have wiggled out of trouble by giving in to the regulatory authorities, letting his silver position be sold to help supply. We may never know the truth. My version is much more credible than Warren’s, that he just sold too early. Nonsense!
The below link has Willie's full article on various shenanigans on economic and gold manipulations. A good 15 minute primer for those new to this thread. The first part showing CPI well-divergent from BLS CPI is eye-opening. They've been growing apart since 1983 when the first tweaks were made to ensure that double digit CPI's would (hopefully) be a thing of the past. And right now at 4% (vs 11% on the old system), they're succeeding.
Wall Street, Liars and Gold
roadrunner
Text
Text1
siliconvalleycoins.com
It is not so much an issue of where it is made, but the efficiency of the overall system. There is a tremendous and almost unambiguous body of evidence showing the benefits of globalization, and and equally convincing body of evidence showing the damage done by protectionism, tariffs, etc.
The only arguments against globalization are philosophical (eg - small earth), or anecdotal. No one, regardless of political views, who has seriously studied the effects of globalization denies that it has increased America's aggregate standard of living.
Box of 20
If you hang around a while longer, you will really see some real doldrums as we enter 2009-2011. Most of the news around here is still comparatively "good."
Thanks CoinLT, both a good read. I see some copying going around on the 2nd article as others have apparently quoted that material w/o reference.
roadrunner
f you hang around a while longer, you will really see some real doldrums as we enter 2009-2011. Most of the news around here is still comparatively "good."
Ha Ha Ha
RR
I love this, see we do still have a sense of humor!!!
Higashiyama
I am sorry my friend, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Are our lives really easier than our grandparents?
Was it worth our progress to force all our women folk into the work place?
Is our travel around our own country as easy is it once was?
Are we as a country more in debt to the rest of the world as the price we have paid for globalization?
Are our children getting the education they should, considering the amount of money we are spending per child?
Is it better that we have no factories to produce anything of hard value, and no trades to pass onto our son’s?
Are we all better off now that we pay 50 to 60% of all the money we make each year to one government or another?
Are we better off as a “service economy” in which 33% of the working population has to work for one government or another because there are no other jobs for them?
It is my belief that all of the real advancements in technology, communication etc. made in the last 2 decades we would have had anyway. Countries around the world that had very little to do with any of this innovation still enjoy the same tech advances we do.
We are having class warfare in this county because the middle class working folks are getting squeezed out of the work place with no one to turn to but the government for handouts, and the problem with that is this cannot last. The government cannot just continue to keep the MOB happy by printing more paper money to send out in the mail.
<< <i>GOLDSAINT --
It is not so much an issue of where it is made, but the efficiency of the overall system. There is a tremendous and almost unambiguous body of evidence showing the benefits of globalization, and and equally convincing body of evidence showing the damage done by protectionism, tariffs, etc.
The only arguments against globalization are philosophical (eg - small earth), or anecdotal. No one, regardless of political views, who has seriously studied the effects of globalization denies that it has increased America's aggregate standard of living. >>
Yes.
It has also increased the standard of living in many other countries even more than
it has here. I would agree that there are some imbalances beginning to show up.
When you see Chinese dishwashing liquid in the supermarket then you know some-
thing screwy is going on.
We do have serious problems which need to be addressed but they are unrelated to
globalization.