<< <i>This gold party thing is comical. People go out and pay a huge markup for gold jewelry and then decide to sell the stuff for no premium to melt (actually under melt) and they are grinning from ear to ear in the process as the hundred dollar bills are counted out. I don't get it. The first time I tried to sell a pair of diamond ear rings (appraised for $950) and was offered $150 I finally got "it." Maybe these jokers are selling their inherited gold jewelry. Either way I don't get it.
roadrunner >>
Simple ignorance. A new scam is born.
This is just a cut above the traveling gypsies who buy ads in the newspaper and set up in a local hotel when PMs spike.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Is what is happening just some anomaly, or have the patterns of the last couple years really shifted into something else?
Gold's current price is not an anomaly. It is trading within it's range, therefore as "normal."
Even lower prices would not be an anomaly... perhaps one could argue that it would be an anomaly if Gold *didn't* trade much lower. However, I would not Short gold at this point like I did Silver back in March. (Disclaimer: I covered and went fishing.)
Why it no longer tracks oil or currency or whatever is not something I spend time on, so no comment with that.
But I will repeat my point from back then... that *most likely*, the "correction" in metals will not be over quickly, and the folks that bought at $1000 or $20 will be quite some time before they break even.
Not that there's any grand evil conspiracy, or Dr. Evil, but simply that's they way things work.
To get back to the subject at hand for a minute, I wonder if any of you could speak to the change in the economic climate that has taken place since the Bear Stearns deal took place.
Back then, gold spiked to $1,050.00, and it really did feel like the grim reaper had come to Wall St. looking for more souls.
Six weeks later, oil prices have gone on to record heights, yet gold has fallen 15%. Additionally, every day the news about housing, jobs, and the dollar stays bad yet the Dow seems to have stabilized and keeps inching northward.
Is what is happening just some anomaly, or have the patterns of the last couple years really shifted into something else?
The Bear Stearns bailout actually made people think for a moment. Since then, the combination of denial, wishful thinking, governmental lies and just plain ignorance has once again taken people's eye off the ball. Those things, in addition to the fact that Americans just don't want to hear it - no bad news.
What's that saying? If your neighbor is out of work, it's a recession. If you are out of work, it's a depression. What young people today don't realize is that the good manufacturing jobs that helped to lift their parents' generation up - are now gone. The expectations however - have continued to rise. It's called "entitlement", and it's not a good thing.
News story tonight - condo associations losing ground in Florida when some owners cannot make payments, it affects the whole condo complex as fees go up amongst the remaining residents who still live there, which then affects resale values even further. Largest homebuilder in Iowa goes under, working out payment schedules for unpaid creditors........
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Gasoline could hit $7 a gallon in four years: CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce)
Crude predicted to top $200 by 2012 on tight supplies, pushing gas higher By Moming Zhou
Last update: 5:15 p.m. EDT April 24, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO (XXXXX XXXXXX) -- Surging crude prices, which could surpass $200 a barrel in four years on tight supplies, could push gasoline prices to as high as $7 a gallon, CIBC World Markets analysts said Thursday.
Crude supplies are actually lower than some official estimates indicate, while demand is unlikely to fall anytime soon, according to a statement by analysts led by Jeff Rubin at CIBC, an investment bank. They forecast that these tighter supplies and continued strong demand will drive oil and gasoline prices to roughly double their current levels by 2012.
"It is increasingly clear that the outlook for oil supply signals a period of unprecedented scarcity," said Rubin. "Despite the recent record jump in oil prices, oil prices will continue to rise steadily over the next five years." CIBC says estimates by the International Energy Agency have overstated supplies because gains in production mostly come from natural-gas liquids. The front-month crude contract slid Thursday to $116 a barrel, after hitting a historic high of $119.90 a barrel Tuesday. Retail gas prices averaged $3.56 a gallon Thursday, according to AAA, a new record high. See Futures Movers. Some analysts, however, said crude prices could turn lower. Standard & Poor's predicted Thursday that crude prices could tumble to about $90 a barrel by the end of this year with the U.S. economy struggling in recession, though the range of that forecast is plus or minus $50. >>
We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago. Believe it or not the refiners are not making money. At one point a barrel of refined gasoline was actually selling for less that a barrel of unrefined crude. Gasoline was only about 40c lower just after Katrina but oil is almost double. We are lucky we are not paying $5+ already. Dont feel bad for the refiners though, they are cutting capacity. Gasoline has a good chance of climbing or remaining steady even with a drop in crude prices.
Just in case anyone was interested there is a new ETF under the symbol-UGA-if one wants to trade gasoline.
They forecast that these tighter supplies and continued strong demand will drive oil and gasoline prices to roughly double their current levels by 2012.
Why it no longer tracks oil or currency or whatever is not something I spend time on, so no comment with that.
But I will repeat my point from back then... that *most likely*, the "correction" in metals will not be over quickly, and the folks that bought at $1000 or $20 will be quite some time before they break even.
Not that there's any grand evil conspiracy, or Dr. Evil, but simply that's they way things work.
I also agree that generally oil and gold track each other fairly well. The US Dollar is the inverse of gold/oil. While the FED, JPM, and GS can manipulate the US gold price and US stock markets for days or weeks at a time, they cannot do that with oil. Paper gold and silver are far easier to manufacture than paper oil. Hence you can see oil and gold diverging being any sense of logic when they shouldn't. There is certainly a conspiracy in the metal's markets and has been for 10-15 years. The goal is to promote currencies and keeping gold in check is all part of that game. Gold has been well-checked since exceeding $1000/oz. It took some strange and unusual (some might call illegal) maneuvers by the FED to do that. One can only imagine what new rabbits they will need to pull out to continue to slow the advance towards $1250 and then $1500 over the next couple of years. Considering that on any day other major bank(s) or corporation(s) could go under, don't necessarily count gold out for the rest of this summer or the remainder of 2008. Couple our financial mess with the tinderboxes set up all over the Middle East.
The FED is fighting on so many different fronts it can't keep it all straight (mortgage market, credit markets, commodities inflation (esp food and gas). Just keeping their favorite sons afloat (JPM, GS, Citi, Fannie, Freddie, etc) is a full time job. If one finger is pulled out of the wrong dike on the wrong day, we could be at $950 gold looking down the barrel at $1000 in a couple of days.
Investment grade issuance (this week) included Merrill Lynch $9.55bn, Citigroup $6.0bn, Goldman Sachs $4.0bn, Bank of America $4.0bn, Wachovia $3.5bn, JPMorgan Chase $2.5bn, Xerox $1.4bn, Great River $400 million, and Textron $300 million.
The above from Doug Noland. Well, we can certainly see which banks/brokerages are all but insolvent. And with that, bank stocks have gained the past week! Where can I get me some of that?
I would be very surprised if from now through May that the metals do not stage a significant recovery towards $950-1000. The FED has not solved the banking or credit problems and now they deal with increasing price inflation as well due to the fact that their only answer is to pump in liquidity at all costs to rescue their banks - 17% per year over year currently. All of that will show up eventually in further price inflation 1-3 years down the road.
Dave, or anyone who would like to, if you have a minute please gives us a little education on this statement below.
I bought some TSO calls a few months ago that have turned into dust because of this crack spread issue.
Why is it that the refiners do not price gasoline at what they are paying for oil plus their costs, and profit?
“We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago.”
As far as the divergence of Gold and oil I agree with RR this is very strange and manipulation is the only sound reason gold should be dropping. WHAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER SINCE GOLD WAS AT $1,050?
What has changed is that the FED has convinced enough people that the worst is over and they are in charge of managing things properly from here. What most don't realize is that they are the principle cause of what got us to this point and that sub-prime or MBS failure was just the first wave of many more credit vehicle failures to come. The banking sector of Wall Street certainly doesn't believe that things are better. But as long as the sheeple do believe they will drive the price of bank stocks up. So why not go along for the free ride until the next major revelation or bust when it is once again realized that the worst is not really over yet. Rinse, lather, repeat every month until 2011.
<< <i>What has changed is that the FED has convinced enough people that the worst is over and they are in charge of managing things properly from here. What most don't realize is that they are the principle cause of what got us to this point and that sub-prime or MBS failure was just the first wave of many more credit vehicle failures to come. The banking sector of Wall Street certainly doesn't believe that things are better. But as long as the sheeple do believe they will drive the price of bank stocks up. So why not go along for the free ride until the next major revelation or bust when it is once again realized that the worst is not really over yet. Rinse, lather, repeat every month until 2011.
roadrunner >>
Good point, the other side of the coin would suggest a need by the fed for more participants. There is a short for every long. The truth is the market makers on wall street are the ones that need bailing out, because they are indeed short. If you go long now, you would have to endure, and watch your money dwindle,. If you were to go along for the ride, you would only be taken for a ride, then sell for a loss. The market will buy your losses back with your own money.
Its the SEC that has to change. If a short on a stock would be impossible, then with all the 401 k money going in year, after year, you would be rich, and have enough to retire. stocks would eventually go up, and the money would remain yours. Should you be forced, working till your 80 years old. NO!
Lets say I have a billion in 401k money, I invest it in the Dow Jones average, and buy them all. two years later I sell a billion short, but the billion is your money. The insiders, the Market makers sell your future short, knowing you would leave your money in wile they take profits that are rightfully yours..
If you believe we are not out of the woods, wait till most short sell orders, are bought back long. The only true way a fed bailout can really work. Time is needed for it to work. Do not let them fool you, they need your money long to cover billions in there losses, passing the buck to the consumer, and tax payers.
The two year bond would be a good investment in this climate, and would keep up consumer confidence in the eyes of the fed.
I don't think they are offering War bonds yet. The people did step up when they were called upon back then by buying Bonds during WWII
The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush. It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion. The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
6. Increase in interest rates due to inflation pressures.
7. dramatic drop in coin values
However, all these thing shall pass in time. Even the end of times lasts only 7 years. >>
we can blame mostly the consumer for many of these. We've become a buy now, pay later society. People just want crap and want it now without worrying about the consequences. Believe me I know.
-sincerely, a former consumer whore with $30,000 cc debt, but now debt free.
Many of those (ir)responsible for public policy and spending tax dollars are of the same breed as the consumer with poor personal finance judgment. Spend with reckless abandon to day and figure tomorrow will be worked out or it will be someone else's problem. Yeah, we have a nation full of bad attitudes, poor upbringing and schooling. Three things that need way more attention in highschool. (1) Teach personal finance realistically and with passion. People need to understand how to be fiscally responsible. They need to know how to buy a house the right way some day. (2) Teach law. Adults are responsible for obeying it and ignorance is no excuse. Therefore, every high school graduate should adequately understand the laws, how they are interpretted and enforced, and how the courts work. The same old repackaged drivel from the 1950s doesn't work in our litigating society. (3) Politics needs to be taught too, and not the political laminate they do now. They are turning into adults and thus voters. They should understand issues of debate, statement relevancy, how the committe crap in the Capitol works, .... I hate uninformed voters with a passion....when they choose to vote.
<< <i>The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush. It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion. The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
Once again, you show you have no concept of the bigger picture in worldwide policies.
FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy. It's Nancy Pelosi nonsense and means nothing.
Other than what comes from the Pentagon/military budget which is established apart from overseas encounters, the rest is off-budget.
You sound like a complete left wing loonie, the type who doesn't care about the facts, your mind is made up. No matter how wrong you are.
I'm betting you have no clue as to the Saudi contributions financially to the US military, nor that they paid for the monster bases which our military in Iraq will occupy for the rest of your life. Your lack of knowledge of Middle Eastern policies is embarrassing. Not just the US policies but those of other countries there as well.
Just give up your rantings about the current administration. They will be gone in a few months, but that won't change our policies regarding the Middle East.
This adds nothing to the topic at hand.
BTW, our federal taxes go to the Federal Reserve, not to the US Treasury or the general revenue fund. None go to the Military or any part of the Iraqi conflict.
You're out of your league here.
Do I have to beat you down again? I thought I'd chased you off this thread awhile ago.
Please take some time off and try learning some grammar and spelling.
You can't even spell the Vice-President's last name. It's a whole 6 letters after all, come on.
It would be good for your own image.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush. It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion. The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
Once again, you show you have no concept of the bigger picture in worldwide policies.
FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy. It's Nancy Pelosi nonsense and means nothing.
Other than what comes from the Pentagon/military budget which is established apart from overseas encounters, the rest is off-budget.
You sound like a complete left wing loonie, the type who doesn't care about the facts, your mind is made up. No matter how wrong you are.
I'm betting you have no clue as to the Saudi contributions financially to the US military, nor that they paid for the monster bases which our military in Iraq will occupy for the rest of your life. Your lack of knowledge of Middle Eastern policies is embarrassing. Not just the US policies but those of other countries there as well.
Just give up your rantings about the current administration. They will be gone in a few months, but that won't change our policies regarding the Middle East.
This adds nothing to the topic at hand.
BTW, our federal taxes go to the Federal Reserve, not to the US Treasury or the general revenue fund. None go to the Military or any part of the Iraqi conflict.
You're out of your league here.
Do I have to beat you down again? I thought I'd chased you off this thread awhile ago.
Please take some time off and try learning some grammar and spelling.
You can't even spell the Vice-President's last name. It's a whole 6 letters after all, come on.
It would be good for your own image. >>
I though forum policy did not allow for name calling?
That Info was cut and pasted for people who dont have a fluffy head like yours. I added it in to show the big picture, I really don't care from what slush fund, or what tax dollar it represents, It is all part of the big picture.
Humblepie
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
<< <i>Perhaps it is time for this generation to learn
the fact of life that we old times learned in
1929 - 1940. It is a harsh lesson, but once learned
it will last a lifetime.
1. No matter what you earn, spend less. Put the difference away for a rainy day.
2. If you do not have the cash, do not buy any grown up toys.
3. Be prudent, resourceful and careful how you handle your money and assets.
Do not be too soon old and too late smart. Start putting away money for your old age. If you do not do it, no one else will. >>
So as long as you have the cash it's ok to put it on a 0% interest credit card for 1 year and earn interest on the cash that would normally have been spent. After one year if you feel that the big boy toy is not right for you then sell it and pay off the credit card.
OTOH, this cut and paste artist has a bit of a record of it, at least directed at me when I call him on his uninformed nonsense.
What he comes across as is an opinion and far from name calling.
Every other post is laced with nasty and negative political diatribe.
There are other places on the net where he would fit right in, but this thread isn't one of them.
Sheesh!
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
1. Credit card defaults 2. Car loan defaults 3. Business property defaults 4. Paper PM collapse. 5. Banking collapse 6. Increase in interest rates due to inflation pressures. 7. dramatic drop in coin values
Yes, the $65 TRILLION Credit Default Swaps blowup will be the next really big thing. But first we continue to wade through the remaining Mortgage Backed Securities fiasco.
Before we see #7, I suspect we'll see rising coin prices at least through 2008 and into part of 2009. Much will depend on how well the FED keeps 1,2,3 and CDS failures at bay. I suspect they will keep the inflation charging well ahead of the defaults for some time and stagflation will rule for a few years. When interest rates pass double digits, eventually even our own #7 will occur. I've read one analysis that suggests the asset inflation will reign hard until early 2010. This would follow generally what happened in 1980 and 1990 and to some extent 2000. A blow out in the first few months of 2010 seems as plausible as anything.
<< <i>FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy >>
Oh I feel so much better now, I thought that it was our tax money that was paying for this war but if it's "off budget" then that's different. That means that when they spend the billions of dollars with the military companies who planned and promoted this war it's really someone elses money. Good thing.
Question: Does that mean that the 4000 American lives that have been lost were "off budget" too???
The biggest thing that is off budget are the Over-the-counter derivatives. The vast majority of the $350 TRILLION OTC derivatives are off the balance sheet. They will still come home to roost however.
Anyone have any idea how big a beach could be formed with 350 TRILLION pounds of sand? Or 350 TRILL grains of sand?
I think the lbs answer would be on the order of a 5 mile cube of sand. Or another way of putting it, a beach 100 ft wide by 25 ft deep that wraps around the equator 50 times. That's a heck of a beach....to the moon and back twice...and then some. Figures that we couldn't keep that big a number on the earth, it's unworldly.
<< <i>Question: Does that mean that the 4000 American lives that have been lost were "off budget" too??? >>
Don't be silly. Remember they were all volunteers and believed in the cause, without them, you could multiply that number by 100+ in US citizen casualties and this country would be in chaos.
Nobody wants to send young, and older, Americans into harms way.
However, it's a much larger operation than that.
Would you rather we ignore the obvious threats and have terrorism in our own streets?
Over 700 terrorist attacks on US soil have been thwarted in that last 6 years or so. Had they not been, we'd have no Golden Gate Bridge, No Brooklyn Bridge, no Hoover Dam, no Sears Tower, no oil refineries, no Empire State Building, little to no commercial air traffic, and the list goes on an on.
Without keeping them occupied over there, homeland defenses would be easily overwhelmed. They aren't all that bright, blinded by their education, they'd rather go up against the US Military, a fairly foolish choice. So it's better we give them a target there where they all come form various countries, only to die quickly. Better that than here. I could tell stories about their stupidity when facing the US Military that would astound you.
If we would simply shut down the borders, we'd have thousands fewer sleeper cells in the US.
That alone would be a great start.
We have more than enough as it is, and this map is already somewhat outdated.
A BTF/Homeland Security raid on the largest Mosque in Houston several years ago produced an arsenal large enough to equip a 5,000 man army. It made the news in Houston for about one day and I never saw it in any other newspapers, hard copy or internet.
I am continually surprised at the number of intelligent Americans who don't understand the true Islamo-fascist threat facing the entire planet with the US as the preferred target.
A long term American military presence in the Middle East is the best thing right now for both us and them.
The Saudis certainly believe so, to the tune of several billion dollars.
We've been in Germany and Japan for over 60 years and both resources have proved invaluable as strategic operating points.
Neither of those countries want us to leave. Freedom loving and Liberty desiring Iraqi citizens don't want us to leave either, though you'll never see them in TV interviews.
Too many Americans have taken an ostrich approach. 9-11 wasn't that long ago, do we really need another one to remind us and serve as a second wake up call? This isn't something that we can ignore, and we do so at our own peril.
I'm sure my contract job makes me more aware than most, but can people really be so blind?
Are we so wrapped up in our luxuries and pursuit of $$ that we don't realize our very liberty is at stake here?
Almost no one knows what's going on in the Southern Philippine islands, and our news media sure isn't going to tell us.
The cost of Liberty is eternal vigilance. There was no budget for WWII, nor was there one for the Korean War or Vietnam. Vietnam was a foolish venture, I'll grant you, but not the others, including Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are liberators, it's our nature and without us the world would be a much grimmer place than it is today.
It's already bad enough(just ask France) and without us it would become a Hellhole. At least a few European countries are seeing the light and evicting the massive wave of immigrating Muslims, we need to do the same.
This is nothing new, the Crusades were done in an effort to stop the hoards of invading Muslims. Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus, in the 12th Century is quoted as follows, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." The Crusades allowed the(then) Western World to advance, as opposed to being crushed and set back hundreds of years.
His words were as true then as they are today.
Some things never change, but at least we do it in much more efficient way than the Knights of the Crusades.
We are winning, yes winning, and making a change in the Iraqi people's lives, a change for the better. Though you'd never know it by listening to our own media.
All it took was a General running the show as opposed to politicians. If we had today's media in WWII, we'd have surrendered Europe to Hitler. Can you just imagine Patton before a Congressional hearing? I'd pay money for that show.
I don't know if your words are simple sarcasm, a hatred of the current administration or an ignorance of the world we live in.
Regardless, it makes you look uninformed on multiple fronts. Sarcasm, when combined with American deaths is a poor mixture and frankly, a bit surprising coming from you. But then, perhaps I've been mistaken in reading your other posts.
Someday, all American citizens will become frighteningly aware, it's quite sad when one thinks of the costs in human suffering it will take for that knowledge to finally sink in.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong.
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Aren't you the one that said, on the previous page, that name calling was
"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO
Let us just hope that the FBI is on the ball. I know that before WW2, the German American Bund was very active and fairly large in the USA. Right after Dec-7-41, all German agents and Americans active in the Bund ,were rounded up with amazing rapidity and accuracy. It was rather an amazing bit of FBI work.
<< <i>"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO >>
"Insolence"?
EVERY neocon, socialist and anyone else who subverts the Constitution can go fck him ( or her, or it ) self.
Don't post that crap and it won't get responded to.
<< <i>"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO >>
America will do what America has to do, we did not become the greatest Nation on Earth by being WHIMPS...If it takes rounding up, it will be done again as it was in WW II! Self preservation is America's number one goal
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Shall I take that as a threat?
Traitor? You should be very careful here. You know not where you step.
Wasn't it you who made the comment about name calling? Cute. Nice to know you're such a blatant hypocrite.
You're just another clueless one, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
You can bring it on anytime.
You mouth off, but you bring no valid points to your rant. You can't dispute a single word I posted. I haven't subverted anything.
Are you telling us you are sympathetic to radical Islam? Were you a fan of Adolph Hitler? Radical Islam today comes from the Nazi influence.
That's rather foolish on a public forum.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Dave, or anyone who would like to, if you have a minute please gives us a little education on this statement below.
I bought some TSO calls a few months ago that have turned into dust because of this crack spread issue.
Why is it that the refiners do not price gasoline at what they are paying for oil plus their costs, and profit?
“We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago.”
As far as the divergence of Gold and oil I agree with RR this is very strange and manipulation is the only sound reason gold should be dropping. WHAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER SINCE GOLD WAS AT $1,050? >>
GS,
It still comes down to a demand supply equation. Gasoline demand had actually dropped over the past year, while crude oil has risen. The refiners have to be careful about raising prices too fast as to cause a quick drop in demand. In the meantime oil has risen at a faster rate. Also due to the lower US demand, much refined product has been shipped overseas, thus increasing cost to the refiners.
FWIW---I have been nibbling on some refiners over the past 2-3 weeks.
<< <i>Let us just hope that the FBI is on the ball. I know that before WW2, the German American Bund was very active and fairly large in the USA. Right after Dec-7-41, all German agents and Americans active in the Bund ,were rounded up with amazing rapidity and accuracy. It was rather an amazing bit of FBI work. >>
Today, that responsibility is charged to several agencies.
The FBI is simply outnumbered and unable to handle it all themselves, however, they do take the lead in many operations.
You are correct, of course, and the same thing would happen today. Actually, it is happening as we speak.
This group is so much larger than the Bund, the numbers are astounding.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
This gold and economic thread is still a "luxury" on a Coin Forum. Let's keep it under control before we have to do our discussions over on Kitco or GIM. I'd rather keep it here.
<< <i>This gold and economic thread is still a "luxury" on a Coin Forum. Let's keep it under control before we have to do our discussions over on Kitco or GIM. I'd rather keep it here.
roadrunner >>
Agree
What was a gallon of gas in 1964 when they took our 90% silver coins and gave us these worthless clad coins in return? A quarter a gallon? Now at roughly 12 X face, a silver quarter would "almost" buy a gallon of gas at $3.60 gal.
Should silver go up, gas come down, silver come down, gas go up?. Nothing happen at all?
The round up actually started the week after Sept. 11th...the first were here in my neighborhood...FBI led in by the State Police at 6 am in the morning...did not get him that early in the morning but latter that night....after the first one then the second and they are all in prison as we speak!
Government agencies such as the FBI, have many ways in which they monitor a neighborhood...and they had a good one...they turned a restaurant into a biker bar! Mohawks and all...right in the middle of all the Muslim stores...they were sights! Had a great business too but the food stunk! They have closed down since they had gathered all the information they needed.
If you really want an eye opener, read Craig Wynn's book, "Prophet of Doom". If you are critical of the U.S., you really need to know about the alternatives.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I would question no ones patriotism but I have lived long enough to see the patriots of this nation played by the military and banking industries while they promoited thier state of perpetual war. I still remember that we fought in Asia so we wouldn't have to fight them here, same story, same fears, different enemy. And the contractors got rich.
It would be foolish to believe that the Islamic terrorists are not a threat. There are some who would do us great harm if they could but that is not new either. If we wanted to protect this nation we would bring our troops home, they signed up to protect America not Iraq (That means Germany and Japan and Korea too), Seal our borders well and provide for our own defense. Find Bin Laden, kill him and his group and come home.
The war in Iraq was not about our defense or about terrorism, it was about US imperialism. Multinational corporate greed and some idealistic Neocons who thought they could control large parts of the world. Now we get to pay the price as our dollar crumbles and our soldiers die. Those in the Islamic world who though they could get along with us are now turning against us.
So they debate if Boeing or Eurobus should get the 30 billion dollar contract to build the supertanker planes, please tell me you think they will have any value in fighting some ragheads with AK47s.
Its all about the money. Is the spending happening to support the war or is the war happening to support the spending.
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Tom, I generally don't tell people that they are idiots, even when they are acting as such. Knock it off, would you?
<< <i>This gold and economic thread is still a "luxury" on a Coin Forum. Let's keep it under control before we have to do our discussions over on Kitco or GIM. I'd rather keep it here.
Why is it that the refiners do not price gasoline at what they are paying for oil plus their costs, and profit?
Different refineries have different processes geared to handle different grades of crude oil. I'd be surprised if the efficiencies and profit margins *didn't* vary greatly. In addition, there are many regional standards dictating the additives in local gasolines.
<< <i>I would question no ones patriotism but I have lived long enough to see the patriots of this nation played by the military and banking industries while they promoited thier state of perpetual war. I still remember that we fought in Asia so we wouldn't have to fight them here, same story, same fears, different enemy. And the contractors got rich.
It would be foolish to believe that the Islamic terrorists are not a threat. There are some who would do us great harm if they could but that is not new either. If we wanted to protect this nation we would bring our troops home, they signed up to protect America not Iraq (That means Germany and Japan and Korea too), Seal our borders well and provide for our own defense. Find Bin Laden, kill him and his group and come home.
The war in Iraq was not about our defense or about terrorism, it was about US imperialism. Multinational corporate greed and some idealistic Neocons who thought they could control large parts of the world. Now we get to pay the price as our dollar crumbles and our soldiers die. Those in the Islamic world who though they could get along with us are now turning against us.
So they debate if Boeing or Eurobus should get the 30 billion dollar contract to build the supertanker planes, please tell me you think they will have any value in fighting some ragheads with AK47s.
Its all about the money. Is the spending happening to support the war or is the war happening to support the spending. >>
A can of worms... Remember Ronald Reagan? well he started star wars, Bush Sr. continued it, and Bush Jr. finished it.
Take a moment to think about our economy, think about all that money in so called right downs. Understand NASA is in space, and they go there all the time. were does the money come from?
Enough about that , the seed has been planted now watch it grow. The satellite we destroyed was not destroyed by a missile, it was done from space, the earth quake the next day in Nevada was conformation its operational. The European component to the space station was sent up, and installed 3 days before.
The name of the inventor was Nickola Tesla, he also destroyed a forest in Siberia almost 100 years ago with his death ray. HARRP antenna array is up and running, controlling weather, and able to transmit power. STS 75 was Tesla's baby. you can seek this info if you want to, its not up for debate. Prop 4 is operation underway..
Crazy? what ever you choose to believe is your business not mine. don't act all delusional about it, if you choose to believe it fine, if not well thats fine too.
I will present you with STS 75 , something that you may not have heard of. sts 75
If you cant believe your eyes, well you may never understand truth, or the so called big picture. Its going on right under your noses. If thats the case you need not dig deeper for related info, or concern yourself as being a patriot. The wool is thick indeed. You may be so flabbergasted, you will retaliate with name calling, but don't. Seek And you shall find. when the bio weapons are released on the population it will be your government administering the agent., not terrorists. They spent plenty to stock up on anthrax in the last 5 years. Wheat, rice, grain, thats all being stock piled! food is what we will all need. Im starting to think big underground city in Iraq.
“It still comes down to a demand supply equation. Gasoline demand had actually dropped over the past year, while crude oil has risen. The refiners have to be careful about raising prices too fast as to cause a quick drop in demand. In the meantime oil has risen at a faster rate. Also due to the lower US demand, much refined product has been shipped overseas, thus increasing cost to the refiners.”
“Different refineries have different processes geared to handle different grades of crude oil. I'd be surprised if the efficiencies and profit margins *didn't* vary greatly. In addition, there are many regional standards dictating the additives in local gasolines.”
Thanks guys but this just does not do it for me.
In any other industry if the price of their raw materials go up the price of the end product goes up. I mean we are seeing commodity price increases across the board and end product prices are rising each month. Look at end product prices for, steel, fertilizer, copper, etc.
O.K. so yes I can see that if gasoline went way up in the last few months then folks would cut back. BUT then wouldn’t the supply increase and the price of crude drop? AND is that not a good thing?
This whole crack spread thing just makes no sense. And I do understand that different barrels of crude oil from different locations need different refining, but these are huge companies with big computers that can certainly figure out what an average price with a real profit should be.
This whole crack spread thing just makes no sense. And I do understand that different barrels of crude oil from different locations need different refining, but these are huge companies with big computers that can certainly figure out what an average price with a real profit should be.
Crude is traded and sold every day. The refineries know which crudes they need for the way that their process is set up. They know which sources can supply each crude, and they know which supply route their types of crudes have to take. There aren't really any surprises built into the refining process. The price fluctuations come from the market, which is dictated by international events. It's not as if West Texas Sweet becomes "heavy Canadian crude" overnight.
High gasoline prices in the US can cause a drop in demand, all the while increased international consumption will simultaneously cause a rise in the price of crude. Nobody I know of ships finished product by tanker, so gasoline supplies are limited by the logistics of pipelines & trucking. The fact that crude and gold have decoupled isn't related to anything else but the fact that crude as a commodity is not being replaced, while the gold supply is much more static.
Does that mean gold is no longer a store of value? Well, does THAT mean that the US Govt has stopped inflating the dollar? Nope - on both counts.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
“Crude is traded and sold every day. The refineries know which crudes they need for the way that their process is set up. The know which sources can supply each crude, and they know which supply route their types of crudes have to take. There aren't really any surprises built into the refining process. The price fluctuations come from the market, which is dictated by international events. It's not as if West Texas Sweet becomes "heavy Canadian crude" overnight.”
This makes perfect sense to me, what makes no sense is why the U.S. refiners continually LOSE money due to the “crack spread” ?
No doubt the rest of the World is getting very tried of financing all of this U.S. debt. The writing is on the wall, either we raise interest rates, support the dollar, and crush the financial guys, or the Fed must just print train carloads of paper. What will the Fed do this week concerning the rate?
“April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Add another ailment to the U.S. misery index of soaring gasoline and wheat costs and falling home values: a federal deficit that is burgeoning as foreign investors led by the Japanese recoil from the slumping dollar.
The Japanese, who own $586.6 billion, or 12 percent of U.S. government debt, had their worst quarter in Treasuries this decade, losing 7 percent in the first three months of the year as the dollar fell to the lowest since 1995 versus the yen, America relies on foreign investors, who own more than half the U.S. government debt outstanding, to finance a deficit that New York-based Goldman Sachs Group Inc. predicts will expand to a record $500 billion for the year ending Sept. 30, after a $163 billion gap last year. Without their support, long-term interest rates would be 0.9 percentage point higher, a 2006 Federal Reserve study found.”
This makes perfect sense to me, what makes no sense is why the U.S. refiners continually LOSE money due to the “crack spread” ?
I don't know that "crack spread" is. If it's an internal accounting term, then rest assured that the refinery is making up for it somewhere in the process.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
<< <i>This gold party thing is comical. People go out and pay a huge markup for gold jewelry and then decide to sell the stuff for no premium to melt (actually under melt) and they are grinning from ear to ear in the process as the hundred dollar bills are counted out. I don't get it. The first time I tried to sell a pair of diamond ear rings (appraised for $950) and was offered $150 I finally got "it." Maybe these jokers are selling their inherited gold jewelry. Either way I don't get it.
roadrunner >>
Simple ignorance. A new scam is born.
This is just a cut above the traveling gypsies who buy ads in the newspaper and set up in a local hotel when PMs spike.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Gold's current price is not an anomaly. It is trading within it's range, therefore as "normal."
Even lower prices would not be an anomaly... perhaps one could argue that it would be an anomaly if Gold *didn't* trade much lower. However, I would not Short gold at this point like I did Silver back in March. (Disclaimer: I covered and went fishing.)
Why it no longer tracks oil or currency or whatever is not something I spend time on, so no comment with that.
But I will repeat my point from back then... that *most likely*, the "correction" in metals will not be over quickly, and the folks that bought at $1000 or $20 will be quite some time before they break even.
Not that there's any grand evil conspiracy, or Dr. Evil, but simply that's they way things work.
Back then, gold spiked to $1,050.00, and it really did feel like the grim reaper had come to Wall St. looking for more souls.
Six weeks later, oil prices have gone on to record heights, yet gold has fallen 15%. Additionally, every day the news about housing, jobs, and the dollar stays bad yet the Dow seems to have stabilized and keeps inching northward.
Is what is happening just some anomaly, or have the patterns of the last couple years really shifted into something else?
The Bear Stearns bailout actually made people think for a moment. Since then, the combination of denial, wishful thinking, governmental lies and just plain ignorance has once again taken people's eye off the ball. Those things, in addition to the fact that Americans just don't want to hear it - no bad news.
What's that saying? If your neighbor is out of work, it's a recession. If you are out of work, it's a depression. What young people today don't realize is that the good manufacturing jobs that helped to lift their parents' generation up - are now gone. The expectations however - have continued to rise. It's called "entitlement", and it's not a good thing.
News story tonight - condo associations losing ground in Florida when some owners cannot make payments, it affects the whole condo complex as fees go up amongst the remaining residents who still live there, which then affects resale values even further. Largest homebuilder in Iowa goes under, working out payment schedules for unpaid creditors........
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Gasoline could hit $7 a gallon in four years: CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce)
Crude predicted to top $200 by 2012 on tight supplies, pushing gas higher
By Moming Zhou
Last update: 5:15 p.m. EDT April 24, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO (XXXXX XXXXXX) -- Surging crude prices, which could surpass $200 a barrel in four years on tight supplies, could push gasoline prices to as high as $7 a gallon, CIBC World Markets analysts said Thursday.
Crude supplies are actually lower than some official estimates indicate, while demand is unlikely to fall anytime soon, according to a statement by analysts led by Jeff Rubin at CIBC, an investment bank. They forecast that these tighter supplies and continued strong demand will drive oil and gasoline prices to roughly double their current levels by 2012.
"It is increasingly clear that the outlook for oil supply signals a period of unprecedented scarcity," said Rubin. "Despite the recent record jump in oil prices, oil prices will continue to rise steadily over the next five years."
CIBC says estimates by the International Energy Agency have overstated supplies because gains in production mostly come from natural-gas liquids.
The front-month crude contract slid Thursday to $116 a barrel, after hitting a historic high of $119.90 a barrel Tuesday. Retail gas prices averaged $3.56 a gallon Thursday, according to AAA, a new record high. See Futures Movers.
Some analysts, however, said crude prices could turn lower. Standard & Poor's predicted Thursday that crude prices could tumble to about $90 a barrel by the end of this year with the U.S. economy struggling in recession, though the range of that forecast is plus or minus $50. >>
We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago. Believe it or not the refiners are not making money. At one point a barrel of refined gasoline was actually selling for less that a barrel of unrefined crude. Gasoline was only about 40c lower just after Katrina but oil is almost double. We are lucky we are not paying $5+ already. Dont feel bad for the refiners though, they are cutting capacity. Gasoline has a good chance of climbing or remaining steady even with a drop in crude prices.
Just in case anyone was interested there is a new ETF under the symbol-UGA-if one wants to trade gasoline.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
Why it no longer tracks oil or currency or whatever >>
are you sure? A presentation of gold vs dollar/ Euro / OIL. for the month of February. march, and April will follow.
Tracks pretty close don't it? Almost identical in fact...
Month of Feb, a upward move In euro dollars, present day the Euro is 15 cents higher 13 cents by the end of Feb...
Month of Feb gold is almost 70 dollars higher. A prediction in gold soon to be 925.00 to 935.00
Month of Feb oil is about 10 dollars higher. A prediction in Euro , to top at about 1.7000 to 1.7300 before the real upturn in dollar happens.
A prediction in dollar yen , the dollar will fall shortly...
A simple buy for silver at 17 to exit at 18.50 soon...
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
That's just plain goofy.
But I will repeat my point from back then... that *most likely*, the "correction" in metals will not be over quickly, and the folks that bought at $1000 or $20 will be quite some time before they break even.
Not that there's any grand evil conspiracy, or Dr. Evil, but simply that's they way things work.
I also agree that generally oil and gold track each other fairly well. The US Dollar is the inverse of gold/oil. While the FED, JPM, and GS can manipulate the US gold price and US stock markets for days or weeks at a time, they cannot do that with oil. Paper gold and silver are far easier to manufacture than paper oil. Hence you can see oil and gold diverging being any sense of logic when they shouldn't. There is certainly a conspiracy in the metal's markets and has been for 10-15 years. The goal is to promote currencies and keeping gold in check is all part of that game. Gold has been well-checked since exceeding $1000/oz. It took some strange and unusual (some might call illegal) maneuvers by the FED to do that. One can only imagine what new rabbits they will need to pull out to continue to slow the advance towards $1250 and then $1500 over the next couple of years. Considering that on any day other major bank(s) or corporation(s) could go under, don't necessarily count gold out for the rest of this summer or the remainder of 2008. Couple our financial mess with the tinderboxes set up all over the Middle East.
The FED is fighting on so many different fronts it can't keep it all straight (mortgage market, credit markets, commodities inflation (esp food and gas). Just keeping their favorite sons afloat (JPM, GS, Citi, Fannie, Freddie, etc) is a full time job. If one finger is pulled out of the wrong dike on the wrong day, we could be at $950 gold looking down the barrel at $1000 in a couple of days.
Investment grade issuance (this week) included Merrill Lynch $9.55bn, Citigroup $6.0bn, Goldman Sachs $4.0bn, Bank of America $4.0bn, Wachovia $3.5bn, JPMorgan Chase $2.5bn, Xerox $1.4bn, Great River $400 million, and Textron $300 million.
The above from Doug Noland. Well, we can certainly see which banks/brokerages are all but insolvent. And with that, bank stocks have gained the past week! Where can I get me some of that?
I would be very surprised if from now through May that the metals do not stage a significant recovery towards $950-1000. The FED has not solved the banking or credit problems and now they deal with increasing price inflation as well due to the fact that their only answer is to pump in liquidity at all costs to rescue their banks - 17% per year over year currently. All of that will show up eventually in further price inflation 1-3 years down the road.
The gang of 545
Banks, brokers and BS
roadrunner
the cure, being worse then the
disease.
Camelot
Dave, or anyone who would like to, if you have a minute please gives us a little education on this statement below.
I bought some TSO calls a few months ago that have turned into dust because of this crack spread issue.
Why is it that the refiners do not price gasoline at what they are paying for oil plus their costs, and profit?
“We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago.”
As far as the divergence of Gold and oil I agree with RR this is very strange and manipulation is the only sound reason gold should be dropping. WHAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER SINCE GOLD WAS AT $1,050?
when Precious metal, especially gold, increase
in price. Can you say MANIPULATION!
Camelot
roadrunner
<< <i>What has changed is that the FED has convinced enough people that the worst is over and they are in charge of managing things properly from here. What most don't realize is that they are the principle cause of what got us to this point and that sub-prime or MBS failure was just the first wave of many more credit vehicle failures to come. The banking sector of Wall Street certainly doesn't believe that things are better. But as long as the sheeple do believe they will drive the price of bank stocks up. So why not go along for the free ride until the next major revelation or bust when it is once again realized that the worst is not really over yet. Rinse, lather, repeat every month until 2011.
roadrunner >>
Good point, the other side of the coin would suggest a need by the fed for more participants.
There is a short for every long. The truth is the market makers on wall street are the ones that need bailing out, because they are indeed short. If you go long now, you would have to endure, and watch your money dwindle,.
If you were to go along for the ride, you would only be taken for a ride, then sell for a loss. The market will buy your losses back with your own money.
Its the SEC that has to change. If a short on a stock would be impossible, then with all the 401 k money going in year, after year, you would be rich, and have enough to retire. stocks would eventually go up, and the money would remain yours. Should you be forced, working till your 80 years old. NO!
Lets say I have a billion in 401k money, I invest it in the Dow Jones average, and buy them all.
two years later I sell a billion short, but the billion is your money. The insiders, the Market makers sell your future short, knowing you would leave your money in wile they take profits that are rightfully yours..
If you believe we are not out of the woods, wait till most short sell orders, are bought back long. The only true way a fed bailout can really work. Time is needed for it to work.
Do not let them fool you, they need your money long to cover billions in there losses, passing the buck to the consumer, and tax payers.
The two year bond would be a good investment in this climate, and would keep up consumer confidence in the eyes of the fed.
I don't think they are offering War bonds yet. The people did step up when they were called upon back then by buying Bonds during WWII
link to war bonds.
war bonds
War costs, and comparisons.
The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush.
It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion.
The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
War calculator by taxes paid.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
1. Credit card defaults
2. Car loan defaults
3. Business property defaults
4. Paper PM collapse.
5. Banking collapse
6. Increase in interest rates
due to inflation pressures.
7. dramatic drop in coin values
However, all these thing shall pass in time.
Even the end of times lasts only 7 years.
Camelot
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>Continuing disasters to come:
1. Credit card defaults
2. Car loan defaults
3. Business property defaults
4. Paper PM collapse.
5. Banking collapse
6. Increase in interest rates
due to inflation pressures.
7. dramatic drop in coin values
However, all these thing shall pass in time.
Even the end of times lasts only 7 years.
we can blame mostly the consumer for many of these. We've become a buy now, pay later society. People just want crap and want it now without worrying about the consequences. Believe me I know.
-sincerely, a former consumer whore with $30,000 cc debt, but now debt free.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush.
It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion.
The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
War calculator by taxes paid. >>
Once again, you show you have no concept of the bigger picture in worldwide policies.
FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy. It's Nancy Pelosi nonsense and means nothing.
Other than what comes from the Pentagon/military budget which is established apart from overseas encounters, the rest is off-budget.
You sound like a complete left wing loonie, the type who doesn't care about the facts, your mind is made up. No matter how wrong you are.
I'm betting you have no clue as to the Saudi contributions financially to the US military, nor that they paid for the monster bases which our military in Iraq will occupy for the rest of your life. Your lack of knowledge of Middle Eastern policies is embarrassing. Not just the US policies but those of other countries there as well.
Just give up your rantings about the current administration. They will be gone in a few months, but that won't change our policies regarding the Middle East.
This adds nothing to the topic at hand.
BTW, our federal taxes go to the Federal Reserve, not to the US Treasury or the general revenue fund. None go to the Military or any part of the Iraqi conflict.
You're out of your league here.
Do I have to beat you down again? I thought I'd chased you off this thread awhile ago.
Please take some time off and try learning some grammar and spelling.
You can't even spell the Vice-President's last name. It's a whole 6 letters after all, come on.
It would be good for your own image.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>The US budget for war Iraq in FY 2007 came to $4,988/Iraqi. This is triple Iraq's per-person GDP. It's like spending $121,000 per person ($484,000 per family of 4) in the US.
The U.S. economy maintains a moderate level of output per person (GDP per capita, $32,700 in 2007
the economic package presented by Bush.
It should equal about 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, or roughly $140 billion.
Before the war, White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay estimated the cost at $100 to $200 billion. So the White House got rid of him and "re-estimated" the cost at $50 to $60 billion. It's now over $500 billion.
The neocons, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc. were just totally unrealistic. "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon
War calculator by taxes paid. >>
Once again, you show you have no concept of the bigger picture in worldwide policies.
FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy. It's Nancy Pelosi nonsense and means nothing.
Other than what comes from the Pentagon/military budget which is established apart from overseas encounters, the rest is off-budget.
You sound like a complete left wing loonie, the type who doesn't care about the facts, your mind is made up. No matter how wrong you are.
I'm betting you have no clue as to the Saudi contributions financially to the US military, nor that they paid for the monster bases which our military in Iraq will occupy for the rest of your life. Your lack of knowledge of Middle Eastern policies is embarrassing. Not just the US policies but those of other countries there as well.
Just give up your rantings about the current administration. They will be gone in a few months, but that won't change our policies regarding the Middle East.
This adds nothing to the topic at hand.
BTW, our federal taxes go to the Federal Reserve, not to the US Treasury or the general revenue fund. None go to the Military or any part of the Iraqi conflict.
You're out of your league here.
Do I have to beat you down again? I thought I'd chased you off this thread awhile ago.
Please take some time off and try learning some grammar and spelling.
You can't even spell the Vice-President's last name. It's a whole 6 letters after all, come on.
It would be good for your own image. >>
I though forum policy did not allow for name calling?
That Info was cut and pasted for people who dont have a fluffy head like yours. I added it in to show the big picture, I really don't care from what slush fund, or what tax dollar it represents, It is all part of the big picture.
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
But yes, it's not acceptable.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
the fact of life that we old times learned in
1929 - 1940. It is a harsh lesson, but once learned
it will last a lifetime.
1. No matter what you earn, spend less.
Put the difference away for a rainy day.
2. If you do not have the cash, do not buy any grown up toys.
3. Be prudent, resourceful and careful how you handle your money
and assets.
Do not be too soon old and too late smart. Start putting away money
for your old age. If you do not do it, no one else will.
Camelot
<< <i>Perhaps it is time for this generation to learn
the fact of life that we old times learned in
1929 - 1940. It is a harsh lesson, but once learned
it will last a lifetime.
1. No matter what you earn, spend less.
Put the difference away for a rainy day.
2. If you do not have the cash, do not buy any grown up toys.
3. Be prudent, resourceful and careful how you handle your money
and assets.
Do not be too soon old and too late smart. Start putting away money
for your old age. If you do not do it, no one else will. >>
So as long as you have the cash it's ok to put it on a 0% interest credit card for 1 year and earn interest on the cash that would normally have been spent. After one year if you feel that the big boy toy is not right for you then sell it and pay off the credit card.
<< <i>Far as name calling , consider the source.
But yes, it's not acceptable. >>
Excuse me?
I don't see any name calling in my post.
OTOH, this cut and paste artist has a bit of a record of it, at least directed at me when I call him on his uninformed nonsense.
What he comes across as is an opinion and far from name calling.
Every other post is laced with nasty and negative political diatribe.
There are other places on the net where he would fit right in, but this thread isn't one of them.
Sheesh!
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
1. Credit card defaults
2. Car loan defaults
3. Business property defaults
4. Paper PM collapse.
5. Banking collapse
6. Increase in interest rates
due to inflation pressures.
7. dramatic drop in coin values
Yes, the $65 TRILLION Credit Default Swaps blowup will be the next really big thing. But first we continue to wade through the remaining Mortgage Backed Securities fiasco.
Before we see #7, I suspect we'll see rising coin prices at least through 2008 and into part of 2009. Much will depend on how well the FED keeps 1,2,3 and CDS failures at bay. I suspect they will keep the inflation charging well ahead of the defaults for some time and stagflation will rule for a few years. When interest rates pass double digits, eventually even our own #7 will occur. I've read one analysis that suggests the asset inflation will reign hard until early 2010. This would follow generally what happened in 1980 and 1990 and to some extent 2000. A blow out in the first few months of 2010 seems as plausible as anything.
roadrunner
<< <i>FYI, the Iraq issue is off-budget, which makes your entire argument simple fantasy >>
Oh I feel so much better now, I thought that it was our tax money that was paying for this war but if it's "off budget" then that's different. That means that when they spend the billions of dollars with the military companies who planned and promoted this war it's really someone elses money. Good thing.
Question: Does that mean that the 4000 American lives that have been lost were "off budget" too???
Anyone have any idea how big a beach could be formed with 350 TRILLION pounds of sand? Or 350 TRILL grains of sand?
I think the lbs answer would be on the order of a 5 mile cube of sand. Or another way of putting it, a beach 100 ft wide by 25 ft deep that wraps around the equator 50 times. That's a heck of a beach....to the moon and back twice...and then some. Figures that we couldn't keep that big a number on the earth, it's unworldly.
roadrunner
<< <i>Question: Does that mean that the 4000 American lives that have been lost were "off budget" too??? >>
Don't be silly. Remember they were all volunteers and believed in the cause, without them, you could multiply that number by 100+ in US citizen casualties and this country would be in chaos.
Nobody wants to send young, and older, Americans into harms way.
However, it's a much larger operation than that.
Would you rather we ignore the obvious threats and have terrorism in our own streets?
Over 700 terrorist attacks on US soil have been thwarted in that last 6 years or so. Had they not been, we'd have no Golden Gate Bridge, No Brooklyn Bridge, no Hoover Dam, no Sears Tower, no oil refineries, no Empire State Building, little to no commercial air traffic, and the list goes on an on.
Without keeping them occupied over there, homeland defenses would be easily overwhelmed. They aren't all that bright, blinded by their education, they'd rather go up against the US Military, a fairly foolish choice. So it's better we give them a target there where they all come form various countries, only to die quickly. Better that than here. I could tell stories about their stupidity when facing the US Military that would astound you.
If we would simply shut down the borders, we'd have thousands fewer sleeper cells in the US.
That alone would be a great start.
We have more than enough as it is, and this map is already somewhat outdated.
A BTF/Homeland Security raid on the largest Mosque in Houston several years ago produced an arsenal large enough to equip a 5,000 man army. It made the news in Houston for about one day and I never saw it in any other newspapers, hard copy or internet.
I am continually surprised at the number of intelligent Americans who don't understand the true Islamo-fascist threat facing the entire planet with the US as the preferred target.
A long term American military presence in the Middle East is the best thing right now for both us and them.
The Saudis certainly believe so, to the tune of several billion dollars.
We've been in Germany and Japan for over 60 years and both resources have proved invaluable as strategic operating points.
Neither of those countries want us to leave. Freedom loving and Liberty desiring Iraqi citizens don't want us to leave either, though you'll never see them in TV interviews.
Too many Americans have taken an ostrich approach. 9-11 wasn't that long ago, do we really need another one to remind us and serve as a second wake up call? This isn't something that we can ignore, and we do so at our own peril.
I'm sure my contract job makes me more aware than most, but can people really be so blind?
Are we so wrapped up in our luxuries and pursuit of $$ that we don't realize our very liberty is at stake here?
Almost no one knows what's going on in the Southern Philippine islands, and our news media sure isn't going to tell us.
The cost of Liberty is eternal vigilance. There was no budget for WWII, nor was there one for the Korean War or Vietnam. Vietnam was a foolish venture, I'll grant you, but not the others, including Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are liberators, it's our nature and without us the world would be a much grimmer place than it is today.
It's already bad enough(just ask France) and without us it would become a Hellhole. At least a few European countries are seeing the light and evicting the massive wave of immigrating Muslims, we need to do the same.
This is nothing new, the Crusades were done in an effort to stop the hoards of invading Muslims. Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus, in the 12th Century is quoted as follows, "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." The Crusades allowed the(then) Western World to advance, as opposed to being crushed and set back hundreds of years.
His words were as true then as they are today.
Some things never change, but at least we do it in much more efficient way than the Knights of the Crusades.
We are winning, yes winning, and making a change in the Iraqi people's lives, a change for the better. Though you'd never know it by listening to our own media.
All it took was a General running the show as opposed to politicians. If we had today's media in WWII, we'd have surrendered Europe to Hitler. Can you just imagine Patton before a Congressional hearing? I'd pay money for that show.
I don't know if your words are simple sarcasm, a hatred of the current administration or an ignorance of the world we live in.
Regardless, it makes you look uninformed on multiple fronts. Sarcasm, when combined with American deaths is a poor mixture and frankly, a bit surprising coming from you. But then, perhaps I've been mistaken in reading your other posts.
Someday, all American citizens will become frighteningly aware, it's quite sad when one thinks of the costs in human suffering it will take for that knowledge to finally sink in.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Aren't you the one that said, on the previous page, that name calling was
<< <i>not acceptable >>
?
"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO
I know that before WW2, the German
American Bund was very active and fairly large
in the USA. Right after Dec-7-41, all German agents
and Americans active in the Bund ,were rounded up
with amazing rapidity and accuracy. It was rather an
amazing bit of FBI work.
Camelot
<< <i>"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO >>
"Insolence"?
EVERY neocon, socialist and anyone else who subverts the Constitution can go fck him ( or her, or it ) self.
Don't post that crap and it won't get responded to.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>"deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong."
That type of commentary is unacceptable, here in this thread, on this forum. Curb your insolence. RickO >>
You sound like a big choo choo train...
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Shall I take that as a threat?
Traitor? You should be very careful here. You know not where you step.
Wasn't it you who made the comment about name calling? Cute. Nice to know you're such a blatant hypocrite.
You're just another clueless one, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
You can bring it on anytime.
You mouth off, but you bring no valid points to your rant. You can't dispute a single word I posted. I haven't subverted anything.
Are you telling us you are sympathetic to radical Islam? Were you a fan of Adolph Hitler? Radical Islam today comes from the Nazi influence.
That's rather foolish on a public forum.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Dave, or anyone who would like to, if you have a minute please gives us a little education on this statement below.
I bought some TSO calls a few months ago that have turned into dust because of this crack spread issue.
Why is it that the refiners do not price gasoline at what they are paying for oil plus their costs, and profit?
“We should feel lucky that gasoline is not much higher now. Crack spreads are down about 70% from a year ago and were actually negative a few weeks ago.”
As far as the divergence of Gold and oil I agree with RR this is very strange and manipulation is the only sound reason gold should be dropping. WHAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER SINCE GOLD WAS AT $1,050? >>
GS,
It still comes down to a demand supply equation. Gasoline demand had actually dropped over the past year, while crude oil has risen. The refiners have to be careful about raising prices too fast as to cause a quick drop in demand. In the meantime oil has risen at a faster rate. Also due to the lower US demand, much refined product has been shipped overseas, thus increasing cost to the refiners.
FWIW---I have been nibbling on some refiners over the past 2-3 weeks.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Let us just hope that the FBI is on the ball.
I know that before WW2, the German
American Bund was very active and fairly large
in the USA. Right after Dec-7-41, all German agents
and Americans active in the Bund ,were rounded up
with amazing rapidity and accuracy. It was rather an
amazing bit of FBI work. >>
Today, that responsibility is charged to several agencies.
The FBI is simply outnumbered and unable to handle it all themselves, however, they do take the lead in many operations.
You are correct, of course, and the same thing would happen today. Actually, it is happening as we speak.
This group is so much larger than the Bund, the numbers are astounding.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
roadrunner
<< <i>This gold and economic thread is still a "luxury" on a Coin Forum. Let's keep it under control before we have to do our discussions over on Kitco or GIM. I'd rather keep it here.
roadrunner >>
Agree
What was a gallon of gas in 1964 when they took our 90% silver coins and gave us these worthless clad coins in return? A quarter a gallon? Now at roughly 12 X face, a silver quarter would "almost" buy a gallon of gas at $3.60 gal.
Should silver go up, gas come down, silver come down, gas go up?. Nothing happen at all?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Government agencies such as the FBI, have many ways in which they monitor a neighborhood...and they had a good one...they turned a restaurant into a biker bar! Mohawks and all...right in the middle of all the Muslim stores...they were sights! Had a great business too but the food stunk! They have closed down since they had gathered all the information they needed.
I knew it would happen.
It would be foolish to believe that the Islamic terrorists are not a threat. There are some who would do us great harm if they could but that is not new either. If we wanted to protect this nation we would bring our troops home, they signed up to protect America not Iraq (That means Germany and Japan and Korea too), Seal our borders well and provide for our own defense. Find Bin Laden, kill him and his group and come home.
The war in Iraq was not about our defense or about terrorism, it was about US imperialism. Multinational corporate greed and some idealistic Neocons who thought they could control large parts of the world. Now we get to pay the price as our dollar crumbles and our soldiers die. Those in the Islamic world who though they could get along with us are now turning against us.
So they debate if Boeing or Eurobus should get the 30 billion dollar contract to build the supertanker planes, please tell me you think they will have any value in fighting some ragheads with AK47s.
Its all about the money. Is the spending happening to support the war or is the war happening to support the spending.
<< <i>deadhorse, you are not only ignorant you and people like you have subverted the very principles of the Constitution and the principles that created this country. You and people of your ilk are traitors to America and I would be happy to be the one to flush people like you down the toilet, into the sewer, back to where you belong. >>
Tom, I generally don't tell people that they are idiots, even when they are acting as such. Knock it off, would you?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>This gold and economic thread is still a "luxury" on a Coin Forum. Let's keep it under control before we have to do our discussions over on Kitco or GIM. I'd rather keep it here.
roadrunner >>
Amen.
>>>My Collection
Different refineries have different processes geared to handle different grades of crude oil. I'd be surprised if the efficiencies and profit margins *didn't* vary greatly. In addition, there are many regional standards dictating the additives in local gasolines.
<< <i>I would question no ones patriotism but I have lived long enough to see the patriots of this nation played by the military and banking industries while they promoited thier state of perpetual war. I still remember that we fought in Asia so we wouldn't have to fight them here, same story, same fears, different enemy. And the contractors got rich.
It would be foolish to believe that the Islamic terrorists are not a threat. There are some who would do us great harm if they could but that is not new either. If we wanted to protect this nation we would bring our troops home, they signed up to protect America not Iraq (That means Germany and Japan and Korea too), Seal our borders well and provide for our own defense. Find Bin Laden, kill him and his group and come home.
The war in Iraq was not about our defense or about terrorism, it was about US imperialism. Multinational corporate greed and some idealistic Neocons who thought they could control large parts of the world. Now we get to pay the price as our dollar crumbles and our soldiers die. Those in the Islamic world who though they could get along with us are now turning against us.
So they debate if Boeing or Eurobus should get the 30 billion dollar contract to build the supertanker planes, please tell me you think they will have any value in fighting some ragheads with AK47s.
Its all about the money. Is the spending happening to support the war or is the war happening to support the spending. >>
A can of worms...
Remember Ronald Reagan? well he started star wars, Bush Sr. continued it, and Bush Jr. finished it.
Take a moment to think about our economy, think about all that money in so called right downs.
Understand NASA is in space, and they go there all the time. were does the money come from?
Enough about that , the seed has been planted now watch it grow. The satellite we destroyed was not destroyed by a missile, it was done from space, the earth quake the next day in Nevada was conformation its operational. The European component to the space station was sent up, and installed 3 days before.
The name of the inventor was Nickola Tesla, he also destroyed a forest in Siberia almost 100 years ago with his death ray.
HARRP antenna array is up and running, controlling weather, and able to transmit power.
STS 75 was Tesla's baby. you can seek this info if you want to, its not up for debate.
Prop 4 is operation underway..
Crazy? what ever you choose to believe is your business not mine. don't act all delusional about it, if you choose to believe it fine, if not well thats fine too.
I will present you with STS 75 , something that you may not have heard of. sts 75
If you cant believe your eyes, well you may never understand truth, or the so called big picture. Its going on right under your noses.
If thats the case you need not dig deeper for related info, or concern yourself as being a patriot. The wool is thick indeed.
You may be so flabbergasted, you will retaliate with name calling, but don't. Seek And you shall find. when the bio weapons are released on the population it will be your government administering the agent., not terrorists.
They spent plenty to stock up on anthrax in the last 5 years. Wheat, rice, grain, thats all being stock piled! food is what we will all need.
Im starting to think big underground city in Iraq.
peace out..
LINK
HAARP
HARRP.
link
I have found power in the mysteries of thought.
It is always a question of knowing and seeing, and not that of believing.
Our virtues, and our failings are inseparable, like force, and matter. When they separate, man is no more.
.
“Different refineries have different processes geared to handle different grades of crude oil. I'd be surprised if the efficiencies and profit margins *didn't* vary greatly. In addition, there are many regional standards dictating the additives in local gasolines.”
Thanks guys but this just does not do it for me.
In any other industry if the price of their raw materials go up the price of the end product goes up. I mean we are seeing commodity price increases across the board and end product prices are rising each month. Look at end product prices for, steel, fertilizer, copper, etc.
O.K. so yes I can see that if gasoline went way up in the last few months then folks would cut back. BUT then wouldn’t the supply increase and the price of crude drop? AND is that not a good thing?
This whole crack spread thing just makes no sense. And I do understand that different barrels of crude oil from different locations need different refining, but these are huge companies with big computers that can certainly figure out what an average price with a real profit should be.
Crude is traded and sold every day. The refineries know which crudes they need for the way that their process is set up. They know which sources can supply each crude, and they know which supply route their types of crudes have to take. There aren't really any surprises built into the refining process. The price fluctuations come from the market, which is dictated by international events. It's not as if West Texas Sweet becomes "heavy Canadian crude" overnight.
High gasoline prices in the US can cause a drop in demand, all the while increased international consumption will simultaneously cause a rise in the price of crude. Nobody I know of ships finished product by tanker, so gasoline supplies are limited by the logistics of pipelines & trucking. The fact that crude and gold have decoupled isn't related to anything else but the fact that crude as a commodity is not being replaced, while the gold supply is much more static.
Does that mean gold is no longer a store of value? Well, does THAT mean that the US Govt has stopped inflating the dollar? Nope - on both counts.
I knew it would happen.
This makes perfect sense to me, what makes no sense is why the U.S. refiners continually LOSE money due to the “crack spread” ?
No doubt the rest of the World is getting very tried of financing all of this U.S. debt.
The writing is on the wall, either we raise interest rates, support the dollar, and crush the financial guys, or the Fed must just print train carloads of paper. What will the Fed do this week concerning the rate?
“April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Add another ailment to the U.S. misery index of soaring gasoline and wheat costs and falling home values: a federal deficit that is burgeoning as foreign investors led by the Japanese recoil from the slumping dollar.
The Japanese, who own $586.6 billion, or 12 percent of U.S. government debt, had their worst quarter in Treasuries this decade, losing 7 percent in the first three months of the year as the dollar fell to the lowest since 1995 versus the yen,
America relies on foreign investors, who own more than half the U.S. government debt outstanding, to finance a deficit that New York-based Goldman Sachs Group Inc. predicts will expand to a record $500 billion for the year ending Sept. 30, after a $163 billion gap last year. Without their support, long-term interest rates would be 0.9 percentage point higher, a 2006 Federal Reserve study found.”
I don't know that "crack spread" is. If it's an internal accounting term, then rest assured that the refinery is making up for it somewhere in the process.
I knew it would happen.