Other than the fact that the Feds don't want regular U.S. Citizens to know, what is the official reason that a public accounting of the gold in Ft. Knox and West Point has not been made an annual requirement? Does Charles Grassley know, perhaps? Maybe Ron Paul has some insight?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Note that things like PPT, SWAT, and PLOP would not be required if we didn't have the FED in the first place that caused all these market imbalances and gyrations and then made them worse while they bailed out their buddies.
roadrunner >>
seems like some new schemes to rape and plunder via fiat and Wall Street.
The Treasury claims that an annual gold inventory is conducted but what does that mean? An "independent" accounting firm named KPMG, LLP "pours" over the bookwork and declares a satisfactory audit by the evidence presented. The evidence presented to them are audits performed by those very same custodians of the gold. So what kind of 3rd party audit is that? KPMG takes all the book entries and vault seals on face value. After all why would the Mint or Treasury lie? Even though KPMG claimed to do an audit in 2005 it was not a physical audit. In fact they were supposed to do a supposed full physical audit of Fort Knox in 2007 but that never came about......wonder why?? Fort Knox has still not had an outside physical audit since the 1950's.
Doug Gnazzo gets a little hyper on this topic but it does have some interesting points. There is another related article on the web by an auditor who claims that indeed Fort Knox has been properly audited by GAAP methods. But once you get into this it's plain to see that only books were reviewed, not real gold. Lots of mumbo jumbo legalese but still no audit.
Maybe we'll get "we the people's" gold audited in 2011 when the SHTF.
"Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights." .......that was a quote from Alan Greenspan in his pre-Darth Vader days, back when he was a Jedi knight.
It's pretty simple, imo. A physical inventory like any tax-paying business has to do once a year. Not rocket science. Go in, take a few representative samples to test.
Weigh a bunch of bars. Count the bars and document the serial numbers. Take pictures.
Have the Secretary of the Treasury sign off on it (Wouldn't that be part of his job description?) Done.
What does it take? An act of Congress? Evidently so.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>It's pretty simple, imo. A physical inventory like any tax-paying business has to do once a year. Not rocket science. Go in, take a few representative samples to test.
Weigh a bunch of bars. Count the bars and document the serial numbers. Take pictures.
Have the Secretary of the Treasury sign off on it (Wouldn't that be part of his job description?) Done.
What does it take? An act of Congress? Evidently so. >>
hopefully they will move the pallets around and tear them down and melt a percentage of the bricks.....never happen
You must have missed the earlier links on the latest potential FED scam (see above). But what could be better than giving a convicted hit and run drunk driver a lifetime supply of booze, a free rental car, and multiple get out of jail free cards. This is in essence what the FED is offering to do to our economy....philanthropically of course without any profiteering motive. The very same FED that got us into this financial mess by not putting the brakes on brokerages and bankers over the past 10 yrs and failing to remove the punchbowl following irrational exuberance, is now gonna get "us" out of "their" mess with additional concessions made to them. Unreal.
-A big mistake was made in 1913 when creating the creature from Jeckyll Island -Another mistake in 1933 when FDR took away gold from the people -More mistakes occurred when we went to pure fiat in 1974 and took gold away from our trading partners (but did give it back to us). -Additional mistakes were made when Glass-Steagel was repealed which gave banks and brokerages carte-blanche once again....and launched the derivatives "hydrogen blimp." -And now we are contemplating another huge one by giving the FED similar powers to the FBI.
I guess we will never get it right, huh? This past 30 year exercise in fiat currency has been for our own good I guess. The great rewards are now within our grasp.....if only we give the FED more financial powers. For a lifetime supply of Doritos Nacho Cheese Chips and all the Dr. Pepper I can drink, I'll vote yes to Paulson's proposal. I at least might as well get something out of it. I'll even turn in all my future social security benefits for a lifetime supply of Subway 6" lunch grinders (and in that case I know I'm making out like a bandit). Move over Jared and pass me some chips.
Bring an umbrella and rain jacket Coinlieutenant because the passersby will be tossing leftover Subway grinders and McDonald's fries at you as well as an occasional partial can of soda. And to think they will consider your protest actions as un-American, even if they have no clue what you're talking about.
Apple pie, McDonald's, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts, and of course Wall Street and the FED, that's about as American as you can get today
<< <i>Why does it matter how much gold is in Fort Knox?
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months? >>
That was my first thought. 147.3 Million ounces @ 1,000 an ounce is 147.3 billion. Not a shabby sum, but barely three months of this country's annual budget deficit spending, or 12 months of Iraq war expenditures (excluding long term costs).
I personally could care less. The United States goverment in cooperation with the military industrial complex has raided the cupboards of this country to a tune tens of times what is or isn't in Fort Knox.
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months?
Why did Nixon stop all foreign payments in gold, if it's not worth that much? At the time, it sure seemed as if other countries believed that gold had some value, since they were taking it as fast as they could.
It really shouldn't be a big deal to provide an accounting. In all these years, I've never heard the reasons why the U.S. Taxpayers can't even know how much gold is in the Treasury. If U.S. Taxpayers can't get an accounting, then why not?
Why hide it, if it's not significant? It doesn't back the currency. It can't pay a fraction of the bills. What's the problem?
The United States goverment in cooperation with the military industrial complex has raided the cupboards of this country to a tune tens of times what is or isn't in Fort Knox.
Look at it this way - if the cupboards have been raided by a factor of 10X, then the gold must actually be worth 10X what the artificial price is.
(JMO - I think that gold and silver are really money, and nobody wants to talk about it. Don't let the word get out. It would really get people mad if they knew that their retirements really didn't have any money in them.)
If you think that I'm being facetious, I'm not.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Fort Knox is like the people's dowry. It is the stuff of lore and catch phrases like I wouldn't do that for "all the gold in Fort Knox." It's an icon and symbol of the "wealth" of our nation, even if more symbolic than real today. How would you feel if you found out that the 8,000 of recorded tons on hand belonged to other nations? That's the last kind of PR gaffe that the financial markets need right now. The people would truly be incensed imo.
If it mattered so little why do we guard it and not allow anyone to see it or inventory it, including our elected officials? If it matters so little why are the Chinese, Russians, and Indians buying it (BRIC)? If it mattered so little why is the price of gold listed on the front page of most newspapers today? If it mattered so little why don't we just sell off all the nation's gold like the UK did in 2002 and get the cash?? For something that has no use why are we keeping it and losing all that "bank interest?" (lol)
The bottom line is that the supposed 8000 tons is "there" to the people of the US whether it is or not. The last thing they want to hear is that it's not there. So the charade goes on and everyone is happy. That gold anchors about 2% of our total currency in circulation so in that respect that currency is backed by something whether we are on a gold standard or not. Breaking that remaining "mental" link would be the last straw. While not an official link the gold can be considered something of value to back our currency. If you don't have gold you better have a lot of oil and other natural resources on your homeland. The people would not like to hear that the govt sold the gold to delay the effects of inflation on the economy to prolong the life of the dollar (in other words they were lied to for years about the strength and value of the currency they were investing in by buying dollar denominated assets such as US stocks and bonds. In other words they got sold down the river while others made out owning the gold and the goldilocks economy was slowly wound down. He who is charge of printing or key-stroking new currency/liquidity into existence and who owns the gold, holds all the cards. And you don't need to be the world's policeman militarily....just strong enough to keep people from coming on to your turf (Russia, China, etc.)
It is surely a pity that a keystroke can call money into existence, indeed it is the ultimate alchemy. Why turn lead or mercury into gold(money), when a simple keystroke can do it for you without all the muss and fuss of minining, etc. or even the dreaded millstone around the neck of having to PRINT it!!!
<< <i>Why does it matter how much gold is in Fort Knox?
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months? >>
I share the same opinion. And I will be of the opinion that it is there until proven otherwise. Frankly I dont care who owns all the gold. To me it is just a trading vehicle that is used by many as a tax loophole.
I have been following the Real estate market in New Zealand for about 5 years and can tell your that it may be the most expensive and overpriced of anywhere in the world.
I share the same opinion. And I will be of the opinion that it is there until proven otherwise. Frankly I dont care who owns all the gold. To me it is just a trading vehicle that is used by many as a tax loophole.
You miss the point completely. Does the government have any responsibility to safeguard the currency? That's the only issue here. I don't care if the gold is there or not, either. What I care about is that when I work hard to earn some money and decide to entrust it to a bank (or mutual fund, whatever) - that the money isn't trashed by governmental policies that are of no benefit to me whatsoever.
In fact, it's those (socialistic and banking system) governmental policies that are being used to buy votes and bail out banking barrons, for whom no one is being held accountable, for which there are no negative consequences to those who promulgate them - that are responsible for what I percieve to be a huge drop in our (my) standard of living, through no fault of my own.
Having a currency tied to some type of tangible asset would keep all that from happening, or at least it would be harder for the politicians to work their criminality upon the rest of us.
And let's talk about tax loopholes. Gold profits are taxed at the marginal personal rate, and which is dis-advantaged when compared to the long term capital gains rates which benefit stock shareholders and their corporate managements. Yes, let's remember that. So, tell me about this "loophole."
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It doesn't matter that the gold in FT Knox, how ever much is left cannot support the huge amount of federal financial obligations or the dollars needed to be "redeemed."
It is not intended to be used to support the current dollar. It's just a starting point for the dollars replacement, when needed. Then the game can begin again.
<< <i>I share the same opinion. And I will be of the opinion that it is there until proven otherwise. Frankly I dont care who owns all the gold. To me it is just a trading vehicle that is used by many as a tax loophole.
You miss the point completely. Does the government have any responsibility to safeguard the currency? That's the only issue here. I don't care if the gold is there or not, either. What I care about is that when I work hard to earn some money and decide to entrust it to a bank (or mutual fund, whatever) - that the money isn't trashed by governmental policies that are of no benefit to me whatsoever.
In fact, it's those (socialistic and banking system) governmental policies that are being used to buy votes and bail out banking barrons, for whom no one is being held accountable, for which there are no negative consequences to those who promulgate them - that are responsible for what I percieve to be a huge drop in our (my) standard of living, through no fault of my own.
Having a currency tied to some type of tangible asset would keep all that from happening, or at least it would be harder for the politicians to work their criminality upon the rest of us.
And let's talk about tax loopholes. Gold profits are taxed at the marginal personal rate, and which is dis-advantaged when compared to the long term capital gains rates which benefit stock shareholders and their corporate managements. Yes, let's remember that. So, tell me about this "loophole." >>
Gold hasnt backed the dollar in 30 years and it never will again. Gold in FT Knox will not protect you in any way shape or form from Govt policies/programs.
The "loophole" is that a TON of gold is traded for CASH. Profits are NEVER reported. Why do you think gold is so popular? Many people/dealers take gold in like-kind exchanges, for the sole purpose of disposing it bit by bit for cash, and hence the IRS never knows about it.
Gold hasnt backed the dollar in 30 years and it never will again. Gold in FT Knox will not protect you in any way shape or form from Govt policies/programs.
Maybe not per the law but in reality it certainly has backed the dollars in circulation. If this were not true then you would not have seen an increase in the gold price since 2001 (coincidentally, just as the dollar peaked and started falling). They are most certainly linked in their price movements and hence you can make the next step to gold "backing" the dollar.
The "loophole" is that a TON of gold is traded for CASH. Profits are NEVER reported. Why do you think gold is so popular? Many people/dealers take gold in like-kind exchanges, for the sole purpose of disposing it bit by bit for cash, and hence the IRS never knows about it.
Another "loophole" is the ability for the govt to confiscate gold. That's one of the loopholes I don't like.
Like-kind exchanges NEVER apply to gold, cash, or cash-like instruments. Like-kind exchanges refer to legitimate tax deferals when swapping merchandise (many other restrictions apply as well). One cannot trade something for gold bullion (or vice versa) and not have an immediate taxable event. It is no different to the IRS than if you accepted cash for your merchandise. I can only assume that Richard Nachbar's frequent Coin World ads hint at such a myth...and supposedly legal way to avoid paying taxes. Nothing could be further from the truth. Cash for cash is not a L-K-E (ie tax is deferred). To avoid paying your taxes when using gold bullion is against the law. There are lots of illegal things never reported and where taxes aren't paid....it doesn't make them any more right than not paying taxes on gold "trades." You are confusing "loophole" with "criminality." A ton of drugs is traded for cash too......doesn't make them any more a loophole than gold. The IRS doesn't know about 99% of the drug deals going down either, but we don't call that a loophole as each kilo is broken down into smaller bags for distribution into the final cash. How did we get to this point (lol). Oh yeah.......gold is a "loophole."
I will repeat. Gold will NEVER back ANY currency, EVER. Economies are too big and supplies of gold too small. Water will back currencies before gold does.
And dont get your wife in a frenzy, nobody is gonna take her jewelry.
Are you ready to place a "Lloyd wager" on that statement....with 1000:1 odds since NEVER is a very strong word. I for one am willing to put up $10 or $100. There is a legitimate shot of re-floating gold once again, but not like it was in the past.
You can use symantics all you wish, yet you and I both know people who trade their numismatic coins for gold. And they sell their gold for cash to any dealer or individual who wishes to play the game. I know a guy who sold a $200,000+ coin at a major auction house. Instead of taking a check from the auction house he took Saints. This happens all the time. I dont say it is legal, but it happens. This in large part is why some like to own physical rather than paper.
Gold does have some linking to the dollar, but to say the dollar is backed by gold is quite a stretch. Perhaps a better analogy would be to say the dollar is backed by oil, since there is more oil in the world than gold and both have moved in virtual lockstep.
How did we get to this point (lol). Oh yeah.......gold is a "loophole."
Brian, you know I like you, but this quote makes you sound like a politician. Please dont try to twist my words to your liking. You are far better than Hillary.
<< <i>Are you ready to place a "Lloyd wager" on that statement....with 1000:1 odds since NEVER is a very strong word. I for one am willing to put up $10 or $100. There is a legitimate shot of re-floating gold once again, but not like it was in the past.
roadrunner >>
So if gold backs 1 trillionth of a country's currency, you win? Yeah. I would take that bet.
For some reason everyone thinks I hate gold. I have never said that. My view on gold is that it is simply as important as aluminum or copper. It is only in one's mindset that gold carries additional weight. There are much more important assets or idealogies with which one must be concerned. If you own gold, then great, I hope you make a ton of money with it. I own some gold, I own some silver, but I would never sleep peacefully thinking all will be great and PM's will save my way of living.
And they sell their gold for cash to any dealer or individual who wishes to play the game. I know a guy who sold a $200,000+ coin at a major auction house. Instead of taking a check from the auction house he took Saints. This happens all the time. I dont say it is legal, but it happens.
A $200,000 coin for Saints is not a like for like transaction, and whoever plays that game is playing a game that might very well cause them alot of misery in the future, should they get nailed. As RR said, the rules are very specific.
I have no love of the taxman, but to do as you might suggest is blatant tax evasion, and the IRS really does take a dim view of tax cheats, and they do have teeth when they decide you've done'um wrong.
I would never sleep peacefully thinking all will be great and PM's will save my way of living.
Cohodk, I sleep peacefully at night because I can't stand not getting a good night's sleep, but gold doesn't have much to do with that. As you say, PMs are not going to save anyone's way of living. PM's are only an insurance policy, and the jury is out as to how good a policy they are.
The day that one of the major political parties strays far enough into the leftist netherland to have Obama and Clinton as it's two potential nominees is proof enough that we are long past saving our traditional American way of life. But I digress.
When the chips are all on the table, I'd rather have physical metals than an IRA account full of paper serial numbers and trading histories with a firm in NYC. I wasn't this way 10 years ago. I used to think that the money in my IRA was solid. What the heck happened?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I don't have an issue with a LKE trade of a $200K coin for say 120 MS65 slabbed Saints. In this case both items are rare coins by commonly accepted IRS definitions (ie what or what doesn't constitute bullion). The fact that we're exchanging 1 coin for 120 makes no real different. An MS65 saint is a "rare" or "numismatic" coin even if it is only worth around 2X melt. Where the problem would be is if you wanted say 200 MS61 or circ Saints which could easily fall under the <15% commonly held "definition" of bullion. That's essentially a cash transaction. Of course people play this game at their own risk. The fact that PA2 introduced a <2X melt bullion "standard" to me is very fishy and down the road this will be dusted off and used against the coin industry.
The USA's 8000+ tons of gold would effectively back 2% of its paper currency world-wide (1/50 backing). That's a far cry from 1 trillionth backing which to me is illogical. That gold doesn't have to back all the paper or residential wealth in the US, just the currency. If the gold is not there, well that's just another problem. And to make this 2% (or smaller) backing work, you have to take away the insane capability of banks to infinitely leverage up as they have been doing. This circumvents everything that a backed standard would do for you.
_____________
This is a follow up to Mark's question's about how the FED can bring money into the system w/o going through the normal channels and logging it on M1 and M2...this is from Captain Hook's article on 3/31/08 and a solid concrete example:
You see what the Fed is doing with this TSLF is taking ‘bad debt’ in the form of questionably valued securities off the books of its dealers and swapping them back Treasuries for this collateral which can be held by the Fed indefinitely if the borrower wishes. (i.e. think monetization.) Presto chango – and what you have here then is not only a government sponsored bailout of the banks / brokers paid for by taxpayers; but also, with these Treasuries now on their books, brokers / banks can extend credit at ratio of nine-to one if they wish against this new and improved collateral, which in effect then is de facto money creation to a degree never witnessed previously by any means. And the thing is the Fed is making $200 billion available weekly, which if fully taken up by its dealers along with all the leverage exercised, would mean almost $2 trillion of new credit could be created to monetize other markets.
Media myth, you have to love it You know I stock up when thing are on sale and if you start looking at how much product you get now at the same price you'll see they've reduced the product as much as 33% on some item leaving it in what appears to be the same size package. Some fools think that since it cost the same they must be getting the same amount as last year.
That article was well presented and easy to agree with. There is obviously some pain in some sectors but most folk I know are just keeping one foot in front of the other and seemingly moving forward at a fair clip.
The big Drudge front page today from a Brit news paper Drudge headline shows food lines in NY and talks about food stamps and depression statistics...nah, sorry guys but you set my BS hype detector off. Media as we have previously known it seems to be in a flux while shifting from the print/tv media to the internet/blogging environment. As this shift is occuring, more and more people want their stuff to be heard and much of it is aimed at shaping public opinion, or as this article states, scaring the hell out of everybody. It's mostly contrived BS but it seems in these times, if you turned the BS filtering system on, it would block out most public media information. So not only is the media changing, the readers have to change too. For those of us that learned to decipher doublespeak from our leaders now need to learn to filter our media as well and keep the BS detector meter pegged on HIGH.
Methinks the article you presented makes a good point.
<< <i>That article was well presented and easy to agree with. There is obviously some pain in some sectors but most folk I know are just keeping one foot in front of the other and seemingly moving forward at a fair clip.
The big Drudge front page today from a Brit news paper Drudge headline shows food lines in NY and talks about food stamps and depression statistics...nah, sorry guys but you set my BS hype detector off. Media as we have previously known it seems to be in a flux while shifting from the print/tv media to the internet/blogging environment. As this shift is occuring, more and more people want their stuff to be heard and much of it is aimed at shaping public opinion, or as this article states, scaring the hell out of everybody. It's mostly contrived BS but it seems in these times, if you turned the BS filtering system on, it would block out most public media information. So not only is the media changing, the readers have to change too. For those of us that learned to decipher doublespeak from our leaders now need to learn to filter our media as well and keep the BS detector meter pegged on HIGH.
Methinks the article you presented makes a good point. >>
On those rare occasions that the media aren't lying they're probably creating the news themselves.
They seem to twist facts even where it doesn't matter just for the practice.
Lets see, if we can't believe what the government says, or what the news says, or what the blogs say, then I guess that we will have to make our own minds up. After that, we can act accordingly.
If money people were using 1 million in "assets" to hold 30 million in funds and if those funds get lost, do they claim a 30 million loss? Seems like all they really lost was the original asset of 1 million and maybe some paper work to account for the other thirty. So what is it the news services are reporting...the million dollars or the 31 million dollars?
Item 2: It does seem that the news services do a fair to good job of unbiased reporting so maybe we are a bit harsh on them. The reason for the negative reaction is that we want to trust the news to be fair and impartial since we make serious choices based on the quality of information that we receive. Some of us news junkies notice when something is skewed and that makes us feel like we are not getting fair and unbiased information. We are responsible for our own information gathering and shouldn't rely on any one point of view. Certainly there are two sides to every story and depending on what light you cast on the various sides, you get a bias that is almost built into the reporting systems. Our duty is to search various news sources and make up our own decisions based on our research. It's the guys that just listen to only one media source that end up with the short straw. Kind of like there are pro gold people and pro equities people and every other color of people under the sun. You really can't expect anyone to tell you what is best for you and fortunately, that is still an individual responsibility.
I'll keep my nestegg of gold while the world figures out that 1 ounce back in the day bought my great, great grandfather a suit. Our dollar today cannot provide the same suit as our one ounce of gold can in today's market. Think about it. Wise old fools; those great, great grandparents who inherently knew and passed on that information.
Comments
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
Forget the PPT.....now the FED and Treasury need the SWAT team! New proposal.
Note that things like PPT, SWAT, and PLOP would not be required if we didn't have the FED in the first place that caused all these market imbalances and gyrations and then made them worse while they bailed out their buddies.
roadrunner >>
seems like some new schemes to rape and plunder via fiat and Wall Street.
So what kind of 3rd party audit is that? KPMG takes all the book entries and vault seals on face value. After all why would the Mint or Treasury lie? Even though KPMG claimed to do an audit in 2005 it was not a physical audit. In fact they were supposed to do a supposed full physical audit of Fort Knox in 2007 but that never came about......wonder why?? Fort Knox has still not had an outside physical audit since the 1950's.
Doug Gnazzo on KPMG so-called Treasury gold audits
Doug Gnazzo gets a little hyper on this topic but it does have some interesting points. There is another related article on the web by an auditor who claims that indeed Fort Knox has been properly audited by GAAP methods. But once you get into this it's plain to see that only books were reviewed, not real gold. Lots of mumbo jumbo legalese but still no audit.
Maybe we'll get "we the people's" gold audited in 2011 when the SHTF.
"Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights." .......that was a quote from Alan Greenspan in his pre-Darth Vader days, back when he was a Jedi knight.
roadrunner
Weigh a bunch of bars. Count the bars and document the serial numbers. Take pictures.
Have the Secretary of the Treasury sign off on it (Wouldn't that be part of his job description?) Done.
What does it take? An act of Congress? Evidently so.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>It's pretty simple, imo. A physical inventory like any tax-paying business has to do once a year. Not rocket science. Go in, take a few representative samples to test.
Weigh a bunch of bars. Count the bars and document the serial numbers. Take pictures.
Have the Secretary of the Treasury sign off on it (Wouldn't that be part of his job description?) Done.
What does it take? An act of Congress? Evidently so. >>
hopefully they will move the pallets around and tear them down and melt a percentage of the bricks.....never happen
The sad thing is that people will think it is a good idea.
I am seriously thinking of moving to New Zealand.
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>Did you guys see this? What a freaking joke...giving the fed oversight. THE FED!! What a conflict of interest
The sad thing is that people will think it is a good idea.
I am seriously thinking of moving to New Zealand. >>
At your age you should explore all possibilities and choose the one that's most advantageous for you and your family.
At any age it's a good thing.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
and multiple get out of jail free cards. This is in essence what the FED is offering to do to our economy....philanthropically of course without any profiteering motive. The very same FED that got us into this financial mess by not putting the brakes on brokerages and bankers over the past 10 yrs and failing to remove the punchbowl following irrational exuberance, is now gonna get "us" out of "their" mess with additional concessions made to them. Unreal.
-A big mistake was made in 1913 when creating the creature from Jeckyll Island
-Another mistake in 1933 when FDR took away gold from the people
-More mistakes occurred when we went to pure fiat in 1974 and took gold away from our trading partners (but did give it back to us).
-Additional mistakes were made when Glass-Steagel was repealed
which gave banks and brokerages carte-blanche once again....and
launched the derivatives "hydrogen blimp."
-And now we are contemplating another huge one by giving the
FED similar powers to the FBI.
I guess we will never get it right, huh? This past 30 year exercise in fiat currency has been for our own good I guess. The great rewards are now within our grasp.....if only we give the FED more financial powers. For a lifetime supply of Doritos Nacho Cheese Chips and all the Dr. Pepper I can drink, I'll vote yes to Paulson's proposal. I at least might as well get something out of it. I'll even turn in all my future social security benefits for a lifetime supply of Subway 6" lunch grinders (and in that case I know I'm making out like a bandit). Move over Jared and pass me some chips.
roadrunner
state is here to help you.
It is your friend.
Camelot
siliconvalleycoins.com
Apple pie, McDonald's, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts, and of course Wall Street and the FED, that's about as American as you can get today
WTF Now!
roadrunner
Why does it matter how much gold is in Fort Knox?
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months?
<< <i>Why does it matter how much gold is in Fort Knox?
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months? >>
That was my first thought. 147.3 Million ounces @ 1,000 an ounce is 147.3 billion. Not a shabby sum, but barely three months of this country's annual budget deficit spending, or 12 months of Iraq war expenditures (excluding long term costs).
I personally could care less. The United States goverment in cooperation with the military industrial complex has raided the cupboards of this country to a tune tens of times what is or isn't in Fort Knox.
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months?
Why did Nixon stop all foreign payments in gold, if it's not worth that much? At the time, it sure seemed as if other countries believed that gold had some value, since they were taking it as fast as they could.
It really shouldn't be a big deal to provide an accounting. In all these years, I've never heard the reasons why the U.S. Taxpayers can't even know how much gold is in the Treasury. If U.S. Taxpayers can't get an accounting, then why not?
Why hide it, if it's not significant? It doesn't back the currency. It can't pay a fraction of the bills. What's the problem?
The United States goverment in cooperation with the military industrial complex has raided the cupboards of this country to a tune tens of times what is or isn't in Fort Knox.
Look at it this way - if the cupboards have been raided by a factor of 10X, then the gold must actually be worth 10X what the artificial price is.
(JMO - I think that gold and silver are really money, and nobody wants to talk about it. Don't let the word get out. It would really get people mad if they knew that their retirements really didn't have any money in them.)
If you think that I'm being facetious, I'm not.
I knew it would happen.
If it mattered so little why do we guard it and not allow anyone to see it or inventory it, including our elected officials? If it matters so little why are the Chinese, Russians, and Indians buying it (BRIC)?
If it mattered so little why is the price of gold listed on the front page of most newspapers today? If it mattered so little why don't we just sell off all the nation's gold like the UK did in 2002 and get the cash?? For something that has no use why are we keeping it and losing all that "bank interest?" (lol)
The bottom line is that the supposed 8000 tons is "there" to the people of the US whether it is or not. The last thing they want to hear is that it's not there. So the charade goes on and everyone is happy. That gold anchors about 2% of our total currency in circulation so in that respect that currency is backed by something whether we are on a gold standard or not. Breaking that remaining "mental" link would be the last straw. While not an official link the gold can be considered something of value to back our currency. If you don't have gold you better have a lot of oil and other natural resources on your homeland. The people would not like to hear that the govt sold the gold to delay the effects of inflation on the economy to prolong the life of the dollar (in other words they were lied to for years about the strength and value of the currency they were investing in by buying dollar denominated assets such as US stocks and bonds. In other words they got sold down the river while others made out owning the gold and the goldilocks economy was slowly wound down. He who is charge of printing or key-stroking new currency/liquidity into existence and who owns the gold, holds all the cards. And you don't need to be the world's policeman militarily....just strong enough to keep people from coming on to your turf (Russia, China, etc.)
roadrunner
It is surely a pity that a keystroke can call money into existence, indeed it is the ultimate alchemy. Why turn lead or mercury into gold(money), when a simple keystroke can do it for you without all the muss and fuss of minining, etc. or even the dreaded millstone around the neck of having to PRINT it!!!
siliconvalleycoins.com
siliconvalleycoins.com
Inflation in heart-attack territory
<< <i>Why does it matter how much gold is in Fort Knox?
Even if it is all there, it's enough to pay the countries bills for what? 6 Months? >>
I share the same opinion. And I will be of the opinion that it is there until proven otherwise. Frankly I dont care who owns all the gold. To me it is just a trading vehicle that is used by many as a tax loophole.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You miss the point completely. Does the government have any responsibility to safeguard the currency? That's the only issue here. I don't care if the gold is there or not, either. What I care about is that when I work hard to earn some money and decide to entrust it to a bank (or mutual fund, whatever) - that the money isn't trashed by governmental policies that are of no benefit to me whatsoever.
In fact, it's those (socialistic and banking system) governmental policies that are being used to buy votes and bail out banking barrons, for whom no one is being held accountable, for which there are no negative consequences to those who promulgate them - that are responsible for what I percieve to be a huge drop in our (my) standard of living, through no fault of my own.
Having a currency tied to some type of tangible asset would keep all that from happening, or at least it would be harder for the politicians to work their criminality upon the rest of us.
And let's talk about tax loopholes. Gold profits are taxed at the marginal personal rate, and which is dis-advantaged when compared to the long term capital gains rates which benefit stock shareholders and their corporate managements. Yes, let's remember that. So, tell me about this "loophole."
I knew it would happen.
It is not intended to be used to support the current dollar. It's just a starting point for the dollars replacement, when needed. Then the game can begin again.
Are gold eagle sales still not reported on 1099's?
<< <i>I share the same opinion. And I will be of the opinion that it is there until proven otherwise. Frankly I dont care who owns all the gold. To me it is just a trading vehicle that is used by many as a tax loophole.
You miss the point completely. Does the government have any responsibility to safeguard the currency? That's the only issue here. I don't care if the gold is there or not, either. What I care about is that when I work hard to earn some money and decide to entrust it to a bank (or mutual fund, whatever) - that the money isn't trashed by governmental policies that are of no benefit to me whatsoever.
In fact, it's those (socialistic and banking system) governmental policies that are being used to buy votes and bail out banking barrons, for whom no one is being held accountable, for which there are no negative consequences to those who promulgate them - that are responsible for what I percieve to be a huge drop in our (my) standard of living, through no fault of my own.
Having a currency tied to some type of tangible asset would keep all that from happening, or at least it would be harder for the politicians to work their criminality upon the rest of us.
And let's talk about tax loopholes. Gold profits are taxed at the marginal personal rate, and which is dis-advantaged when compared to the long term capital gains rates which benefit stock shareholders and their corporate managements. Yes, let's remember that. So, tell me about this "loophole." >>
Gold hasnt backed the dollar in 30 years and it never will again. Gold in FT Knox will not protect you in any way shape or form from Govt policies/programs.
The "loophole" is that a TON of gold is traded for CASH. Profits are NEVER reported. Why do you think gold is so popular? Many people/dealers take gold in like-kind exchanges, for the sole purpose of disposing it bit by bit for cash, and hence the IRS never knows about it.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I knew it would happen.
should be used. When a system eventually
breaks down world wide, then a system of
backed currency dicipline may well prove
necessary to restore world wide confidence.
This could involve international agreement on
fixing the price of gold,as well as confiscation of
non numismatic and jewelery supplies.
Camelot
Maybe not per the law but in reality it certainly has backed the dollars in circulation. If this were not true then you would not have seen an increase in the gold price since 2001 (coincidentally, just as the dollar peaked and started falling). They are most certainly linked in their price movements and hence you can make the next step to gold "backing" the dollar.
The "loophole" is that a TON of gold is traded for CASH. Profits are NEVER reported. Why do you think gold is so popular? Many people/dealers take gold in like-kind exchanges, for the sole purpose of disposing it bit by bit for cash, and hence the IRS never knows about it.
Another "loophole" is the ability for the govt to confiscate gold. That's one of the loopholes I don't like.
Like-kind exchanges NEVER apply to gold, cash, or cash-like instruments. Like-kind exchanges refer to legitimate tax deferals when swapping merchandise (many other restrictions apply as well). One cannot trade something for gold bullion (or vice versa) and not have an immediate taxable event. It is no different to the IRS than if you accepted cash for your merchandise. I can only assume that Richard Nachbar's frequent Coin World ads hint at such a myth...and supposedly legal way to avoid paying taxes. Nothing could be further from the truth. Cash for cash is not a L-K-E (ie tax is deferred). To avoid paying your taxes when using gold bullion is against the law. There are lots of illegal things never reported and where taxes aren't paid....it doesn't make them any more right than not paying taxes on gold "trades." You are confusing "loophole" with "criminality." A ton of drugs is traded for cash too......doesn't make them any more a loophole than gold. The IRS doesn't know about 99% of the drug deals going down either, but we don't call that a loophole as each kilo is broken down into smaller bags for distribution into the final cash. How did we get to this point (lol). Oh yeah.......gold is a "loophole."
roadrunner
I will repeat. Gold will NEVER back ANY currency, EVER. Economies are too big and supplies of gold too small. Water will back currencies before gold does.
And dont get your wife in a frenzy, nobody is gonna take her jewelry.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
You can use symantics all you wish, yet you and I both know people who trade their numismatic coins for gold. And they sell their gold for cash to any dealer or individual who wishes to play the game. I know a guy who sold a $200,000+ coin at a major auction house. Instead of taking a check from the auction house he took Saints. This happens all the time. I dont say it is legal, but it happens. This in large part is why some like to own physical rather than paper.
Gold does have some linking to the dollar, but to say the dollar is backed by gold is quite a stretch. Perhaps a better analogy would be to say the dollar is backed by oil, since there is more oil in the world than gold and both have moved in virtual lockstep.
How did we get to this point (lol). Oh yeah.......gold is a "loophole."
Brian, you know I like you, but this quote makes you sound like a politician. Please dont try to twist my words to your liking. You are far better than Hillary.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Are you ready to place a "Lloyd wager" on that statement....with 1000:1 odds since NEVER is a very strong word. I for one am willing to put up $10 or $100. There is a legitimate shot of re-floating gold once again, but not like it was in the past.
roadrunner >>
So if gold backs 1 trillionth of a country's currency, you win? Yeah. I would take that bet.
For some reason everyone thinks I hate gold. I have never said that. My view on gold is that it is simply as important as aluminum or copper. It is only in one's mindset that gold carries additional weight. There are much more important assets or idealogies with which one must be concerned. If you own gold, then great, I hope you make a ton of money with it. I own some gold, I own some silver, but I would never sleep peacefully thinking all will be great and PM's will save my way of living.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
A $200,000 coin for Saints is not a like for like transaction, and whoever plays that game is playing a game that might very well cause them alot of misery in the future, should they get nailed. As RR said, the rules are very specific.
I have no love of the taxman, but to do as you might suggest is blatant tax evasion, and the IRS really does take a dim view of tax cheats, and they do have teeth when they decide you've done'um wrong.
I would never sleep peacefully thinking all will be great and PM's will save my way of living.
Cohodk, I sleep peacefully at night because I can't stand not getting a good night's sleep, but gold doesn't have much to do with that. As you say, PMs are not going to save anyone's way of living. PM's are only an insurance policy, and the jury is out as to how good a policy they are.
The day that one of the major political parties strays far enough into the leftist netherland to have Obama and Clinton as it's two potential nominees is proof enough that we are long past saving our traditional American way of life. But I digress.
When the chips are all on the table, I'd rather have physical metals than an IRA account full of paper serial numbers and trading histories with a firm in NYC. I wasn't this way 10 years ago. I used to think that the money in my IRA was solid. What the heck happened?
I knew it would happen.
The USA's 8000+ tons of gold would effectively back 2% of its paper currency world-wide (1/50 backing). That's a far cry from 1 trillionth backing which to me is illogical. That gold doesn't have to back all the paper or residential wealth in the US, just the currency.
If the gold is not there, well that's just another problem. And to make this 2% (or smaller) backing work, you have to take away the insane capability of banks to infinitely leverage up as they have been doing. This circumvents everything that a backed standard would do for you.
_____________
This is a follow up to Mark's question's about how the FED can bring money into the system w/o going through the normal channels and logging it on M1 and M2...this is from Captain Hook's article on 3/31/08 and a solid concrete example:
You see what the Fed is doing with this TSLF is taking ‘bad debt’ in the form of questionably valued securities off the books of its dealers and swapping them back Treasuries for this collateral which can be held by the Fed indefinitely if the borrower wishes. (i.e. think monetization.) Presto chango – and what you have here then is not only a government sponsored bailout of the banks / brokers paid for by taxpayers; but also, with these Treasuries now on their books, brokers / banks can extend credit at ratio of nine-to one if they wish against this new and improved collateral, which in effect then is de facto money creation to a degree never witnessed previously by any means. And the thing is the Fed is making $200 billion available weekly, which if fully taken up by its dealers along with all the leverage exercised, would mean almost $2 trillion of new credit could be created to monetize other markets.
roadrunner
Text
Cheers, RickO
The big Drudge front page today from a Brit news paper Drudge headline shows food lines in NY and talks about food stamps and depression statistics...nah, sorry guys but you set my BS hype detector off. Media as we have previously known it seems to be in a flux while shifting from the print/tv media to the internet/blogging environment. As this shift is occuring, more and more people want their stuff to be heard and much of it is aimed at shaping public opinion, or as this article states, scaring the hell out of everybody. It's mostly contrived BS but it seems in these times, if you turned the BS filtering system on, it would block out most public media information. So not only is the media changing, the readers have to change too. For those of us that learned to decipher doublespeak from our leaders now need to learn to filter our media as well and keep the BS detector meter pegged on HIGH.
Methinks the article you presented makes a good point.
<< <i>Interesting article today...
Text
Cheers, RickO >>
Enjoyed it!!
Thanks RickO.....aways good to get a rational quote from Ben Stein.
<< <i>That article was well presented and easy to agree with. There is obviously some pain in some sectors but most folk I know are just keeping one foot in front of the other and seemingly moving forward at a fair clip.
The big Drudge front page today from a Brit news paper Drudge headline shows food lines in NY and talks about food stamps and depression statistics...nah, sorry guys but you set my BS hype detector off. Media as we have previously known it seems to be in a flux while shifting from the print/tv media to the internet/blogging environment. As this shift is occuring, more and more people want their stuff to be heard and much of it is aimed at shaping public opinion, or as this article states, scaring the hell out of everybody. It's mostly contrived BS but it seems in these times, if you turned the BS filtering system on, it would block out most public media information. So not only is the media changing, the readers have to change too. For those of us that learned to decipher doublespeak from our leaders now need to learn to filter our media as well and keep the BS detector meter pegged on HIGH.
Methinks the article you presented makes a good point. >>
On those rare occasions that the media aren't lying they're probably creating the news themselves.
They seem to twist facts even where it doesn't matter just for the practice.
This has been going on for generations.
says, or what the news says, or what the blogs say,
then I guess that we will have to make our own minds
up. After that, we can act accordingly.
Camelot
If money people were using 1 million in "assets" to hold 30 million in funds and if those funds get lost, do they claim a 30 million loss? Seems like all they really lost was the original asset of 1 million and maybe some paper work to account for the other thirty. So what is it the news services are reporting...the million dollars or the 31 million dollars?
Item 2: It does seem that the news services do a fair to good job of unbiased reporting so maybe we are a bit harsh on them. The reason for the negative reaction is that we want to trust the news to be fair and impartial since we make serious choices based on the quality of information that we receive. Some of us news junkies notice when something is skewed and that makes us feel like we are not getting fair and unbiased information. We are responsible for our own information gathering and shouldn't rely on any one point of view. Certainly there are two sides to every story and depending on what light you cast on the various sides, you get a bias that is almost built into the reporting systems. Our duty is to search various news sources and make up our own decisions based on our research. It's the guys that just listen to only one media source that end up with the short straw. Kind of like there are pro gold people and pro equities people and every other color of people under the sun. You really can't expect anyone to tell you what is best for you and fortunately, that is still an individual responsibility.
I'll keep my nestegg of gold while the world figures out that 1 ounce back in the day bought my great, great grandfather a suit. Our dollar today cannot provide the same suit as our one ounce of gold can in today's market. Think about it. Wise old fools; those great, great grandparents who inherently knew and passed on that information.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Obama campaign rep on legislative accomplishments
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
IMF plans gold sale to raise $6bn
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870