<< <i>Our roads, bridges, and levies are falling into a state of disrepair and we do not have the funds to fix them because all of our money is going to Iraq. >>
IMO, the $150 billion for the "stimulus package" would have been FAR better spent by funding infrastructure projects. It's far better to use the money for a real national need that will stay in the domestic economy -- and provide domestic jobs -- than send out 100 million glorified Wal-Mart gift cards which will stimulate China's economy more than our own.
Regardless of my own opinion on the state of affairs in Iraq, I grow weary of the attitude that it's the only drag on our federal budget and the only reason why other "higher priority" funding needs go unmet.
<< <i>I Hillary loses the Nomination I am going McCain!!!! Plain and simple. >>
So what is it about socialism that you hold so dear to your heart? What is it about freedom that you despise? >>
There's a very complicated explanation for it. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's called voting for the lesser of two evils. If you are really interested in limiting the size and scope of government, it's not that hard to figure out who you should vote for. Here's a hint: It's not the party seeking to raise taxes through the roof and introduce compulsory socialized health insurance and other massive new government entitlements. >>
The Republican leadership has committed the worst strategic blunder in the history of our country, has instituted domestic spying that tramples upon our Constitutional rights, has squandered our financial resources and left our economy in a tail spin, and yet a good part of their constituency is using Roe v Wade as the litmus test for electing the next President. Those people have gotten what they deserve, the problem is that all other Americans have paid the same price for their folly.
<< <i>I Hillary loses the Nomination I am going McCain!!!! Plain and simple. >>
So what is it about socialism that you hold so dear to your heart? What is it about freedom that you despise? >>
There's a very complicated explanation for it. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's called voting for the lesser of two evils. If you are really interested in limiting the size and scope of government, it's not that hard to figure out who you should vote for. Here's a hint: It's not the party seeking to raise taxes through the roof and introduce compulsory socialized health insurance and other massive new government entitlements. >>
The size of the government went up under the last five Republican presidents and down under Clinton. In fact, it appears the Republicans since Nixon love big government:
The size of the budget deficit went up under the last four Republican presidents and down under Clinton. It was unchanged (within a few billion) under Carter.
"Deficit" is another word for taxation, but it keeps sheeple voting in the people running up the deficits since the pain of the spending is delayed so somebody else can take the blame.
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
<< <i>The Republican leadership has committed the worst strategic blunder in the history of our country, has instituted domestic spying that tramples upon our Constitutional rights, has squandered our financial resources and left our economy in a tail spin, and yet a good part of their constituency is using Roe v Wade as the litmus test for electing the next President. Those people have gotten what they deserve, the problem is that all other Americans have paid the same price for their folly. >>
Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>The Republican leadership has committed the worst strategic blunder in the history of our country, has instituted domestic spying that tramples upon our Constitutional rights, has squandered our financial resources and left our economy in a tail spin, and yet a good part of their constituency is using Roe v Wade as the litmus test for electing the next President. Those people have gotten what they deserve, the problem is that all other Americans have paid the same price for their folly. >>
I don't know... I think the Federal Reserve Act was likely the biggest blunder.
The size of the budget deficit went up under the last four Republican presidents and down under Clinton. It was unchanged (within a few billion) under Carter.
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
Don't worry, your team is sure to catch up if they win in '08.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
Others believe that important decisions - like when it is appropriate to take a life - should be left to the democratic political process rather than to 9 appointed judges. We are the only "democracy" that strips its citizens of the right to vote on the abortion laws.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i> The size of the budget deficit went up under the last four Republican presidents and down under Clinton. It was unchanged (within a few billion) under Carter.
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
Don't worry, your team is sure to catch up if they win in '08. >>
I have loads of historical evidence on my side that they won't. I'll go with that.
The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed.
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed.
CG >>
Yep.
People who keep spending without paying for it are called "freeloaders" where I come from.
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed. >>
Tax-and-spend versus borrow-and-spend. What we need is a SPEND LESS alternative. But everyone wants their own goodies, so they agree to fund everyone else's goodies too -- not realizing that if they funded NO one's goodies, they could buy their own goodies for a fraction of the tax savings they would realize.
Politics is the art of bribing people with their own money.
<< <i> What we need is a SPEND LESS alternative. But everyone wants their own goodies, so they agree to fund everyone else's goodies too >>
Yes, this is the “pork barrel” spending and “earmark” problem that Sen. McCain has been trying to fix. One of McCain’s strong points. But fixing that problem will not solve the Federal spending problem if we continue to through billions of dollars into Iraq.
<< <i>Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned >>
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
CG >>
The problem is that the fastest growing demographics dont know anything about family planning. >>
Sorry for jumping in here, but the statement above just begs a moral viewpiont: Abortion is murder. Leaving the decision whether murder is ok or not has NEVER been left in the hands of the average man, family or whatever. You must have moral absolutes, and anyone advocating otherwise invites anarchy and murder. I don't care what political label you wear...no moral absolutes equals the end of society.
And, just to toss this in: Anyone in favor of abortion really only needs to answer one question for me: Would you have wanted to be aborted? If your answer is yes, you're lying or insane (assuming the basic fight/flight instinct is present...if it ain't, well there are guns and razor blades aplenty.).
And, just to toss this in: Anyone in favor of abortion really only needs to answer one question for me: Would you have wanted to be aborted? If your answer is yes, you're lying or insane (assuming the basic fight/flight instinct is present...if it ain't, well there are guns and razor blades aplenty.).
Flame on... >>
Discussing political parties in general is SOMEWHAT related to the economy and by extension to PM, so (by a stretch) you can justify them being on a coin chatboard. On the other hand, no such link, tenuous or otherwise, can be made on a Venn diagram of abortion and coins.
There are plenty of abortion debate chatrooms around. Maybe the people who want to try to change this discussion into an abortion debate can go to those other chatrooms. We wouldn't want this thread to go POOF, would we?
Well, our president has basically predicted no recession. Rightttt...... just get back to borrowing and spending, worker bees.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
Apparently they think it's better for the economy to let banks fail and throw a lot more employees out of work than to foreclose on a few more properties.
If this isn't judicial activism, I don't know what is.
Apparently they think it's better for the economy to let banks fail and throw a lot more employees out of work than to foreclose on a few more properties.
A couple of comments -
Yesterday, they loosened the reserve limits for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac yesterday, in addition to increasing the number of loans on problem mortgages that they can hold.
They've also lowered the discount rate at the FED, even while banks are raising mortgage rates and implementing stricter lending standards.
So, it appears that they are still protecting the banks by inserting the government (and it's guarantees) deeper into the loan market in order to protect them from their bad management and greed.
On the other hand, we have Hillary - jawboning Congress to pass a 5-year moratorium on mortgage rate increases for the people who should never have been able to qualify for a loan in the first place.
In either extreme, guess who pays the tab. Go on, guess.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I checked my 401K policy today regarding taking money out and they now only let you withdraw 50% of your money and they require a notarized signature from my wife! Looks like the banks are screwing my feet to the ground. Or screwing something...
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
<< <i>Dreadhorse, are they building a boarder crossing that will be manned by Guards...or is it just going to be bridges left for free crossing? Where does it begin and where will it end!
It sounds like a Bush business and that is the reason no one will touch it! Not even the Govenor.
Remember too that the BUSHES were Deplomates living in China for years!!!!!!!! >>
No guards, no nothing. These bridges are out in the middle of nowhere.
In south Texas, the river is fairly wide and has a strong undercurrent. Many have drowned trying to cross there, so we are building them bridges!!
Built by US contractors and OSHA approved for safety. Some are over a quarter mile long.
There are pictures of them but border patrol has confiscated many. Texans are being harassed by border guards if we go near them.
It sure makes plenty of us wonder just what the Hell is going on.
The Minutemen are the best source for information on these things.
Personally, I'd like to see them blown up. However, I have no experience in such things.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed.
CG >>
Our tax dollars don't go into the US Treasury. When will people learn?
Clinton never came close to balancing the budget by raising taxes, he cooked the books.
All of our federal income tax goes to the Federal Reserve, which is a group of the mega wealthy living primarily in Europe.
Oh, and one more thing........... War is actually good for the economy, always has been.
Do your own research if you don't want to face the ugly little secret by reading it here.
Where does that money go? It goes to US contractors and factories and it's workers and trickles down into the economy.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>I checked my 401K policy today regarding taking money out and they now only let you withdraw 50% of your money and they require a notarized signature from my wife! Looks like the banks are screwing my feet to the ground. Or screwing something... >>
our bending you over the desk! ouch
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
<< <i>Yes War is a wonderful thing for the economy.
However, it is a little harsh on the dead and
wounded and the families that must bear the
anguish. Heaven help us all, if this then is the
reality of this Nation's tomorrow.
Wars are always started by the old, (who should
know better), but are always fought by the young. >>
Couldn't agree more.
However, it always irks me a bit when I hear all the bashers say we are spending X billion on the war in the Middle East.
We are spending it on the infrastructure to support the fighting machine and that does put money into our economy at home.
As a side note, we also need to remember that we haven't been hit since 9-11, over 700 major attacks on our home soil have already been thwarted and these attacks are being planned from the Middle East.
The powers that be also want a US presence in the Middle East, we aren't leaving Iraq even when all the violence subsides.
The real economic powers over there want us to be there. They all fear Iran more than they do us.
If you tell people that the war in the Middle East has been the safest war the US has ever fought, in terms of loss of American life, they look at you dumbfounded. Of course the media includes training fatalities that occur in the US as casualties in Iraq, so I suppose it's a matter of being dumbed down by our own media. Our public education system has made it very easy to manipulate the thoughts and emotions of the average sheeple.
I suppose that's why an empty suit like Obama can find such support.
Al Queada is praying to Allah for his election, that should tell the American public something.
Oh yeah, the US media isn't letting us know about that, silly me for thinking rationally.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I remember as a small cub, that my parents did not have credit cards or even a checking account. They worked on a cash basis. After the must pay bills were taken care of what was left was all we had to spend. You ran out of money you just stopped spending.
We did not have much money in the bank, but we did not owe any money either. The National debt was 280 billion dollars and Congress screamed if the debt ceiling had to be raised by a hundred million dollars.
I do not have a PHD in economics, but it seems to me that folks are not going to be able to depend on the Government to bail us out. We will have to bail ourselves out regardless of who is in control of the Government come 2009.
What to do:
1. Most important cash in a FDIC bank account If you can not spare 6 months expenses, then at least a few months reserve. This will protect against recession . Enough reserve and you have money to purchase assets at reduced prices. Sell some assets if necessary to create this fund.
2. Begin to reduce non critical expenditures as much as is reasonably possible. Take the savings even if it is loose change or a few dollars and at to you reserve fund. This will stop digging the hole you are in and begin to restore you true asset base. Less meals out, more home entertainment, , cheaper vacations,less cloths, buy only items you need and then only on sale.If I am right, this downturn could be longer then the usual 9 month average. In fact, for many, we may be looking at a 18 -24 month period of hard times.
3. Some coins, precious metals, art will help against inflation. However these assets might not always be liquid assets in a severe downturn. If necessary, sell some of you less favorite items for your cash reserve.
4. Some common stock. These will provide long term protection against inflation and although they may suffer losses, they remain in the category of liquid assets . Money can be borrows from 401k plans, but the money must be paid back in 5 years and the loss seriously diminishes long term appreciation needed for retirement.
5.If you are a two income family, remember, in a downturn one or both jobs may be lost. This means that one or both of you must accept a job with lesser pay or benefits.
6. Pay down high interest short term debt as fast as is possible. 11% - 23% interest can really kill you. In fact, try to leave the credit card at home and only use in emergencies.
7. Gas will indeed go to 4 dollars a gallon this summer. If you car averages 20 miles a gallon and you make a non essential round trip of 40 miles, it will have cost you $8 just for gas. It is easy to use the credit card for a 60 dollar fill up. However its really tough when the bill comes due.
<< <i>Yes War is a wonderful thing for the economy.
However, it is a little harsh on the dead and
wounded and the families that must bear the
anguish. Heaven help us all, if this then is the
reality of this Nation's tomorrow.
Wars are always started by the old, (who should
know better), but are always fought by the young. >>
Yes and we're not always right about war ( Vietnam ) and when we do these types of things and not make ammends for the parts we played, even after realizing we were wrong, we are doomed to deal even more hardship and death upon others, otherwise called "doomed to repeat the same mistakes".
Only when we can look in the mirror after taking full stock of what we are responsible for, then making ammends for thise things will be begin to heal ourselves as well as those we have harmed.
We are not even looking at that possibility.
It all begins with the individual. Then we can look at who "leads" us.
In the meantime , it's great to be in this business
Since this thread is talking a little about everything I guess I can ask a question. My stockbroker called me up and wanted to set up an appointment to come in and do me and my wifes yearly IRA purchase. Its usually a mutual fund of stocks. I told him I would get back with him. This is the first time he has ever called me, and that tells me that maybe not many people are buying right now and are maybe holding off for a while which is what my gut tells me to do. I am not very savy with economics and frankly don't know where to put any money right now. I brought up PM's to him 3 or 4 years ago and he kind of blowed it off as a wierd type of investment but I bought some anyway.Bottom line is , where is the best place to put IRA money at present?
"I brought up PM's to him 3 or 4 years ago and he kind of blowed it off as a wierd type of investment"
How's your fund advisor going to make any money with you going out and blowing your wad on PM? So far, PM's have yielded about 15% over the last year...not a bad choice with you going out and wasting your buks on PM. What did his fund yield? It is not great form to give financial advice in a forum thread, even if some of the posters are very expert at growing buks. Suggest you do a little dilligence and look at the different vehicles available to you. You can look at petroleum related industries like pipelines and processors, you can look at CD's (seems like most folk can get about 5% and change for these), you can look at having a cash account to pay for your normal expenses like gas, food, and stuff (just keep a little wad folded up in your pocket) and write checks for the big ticket items, you can look at paying off any debt you might have and using an Amex for your credit purchases (you have to pay the balance at the end of the billing cycle), you can even look at upgrading your house kitchen/baths/finishes, you can look at some nice coins that are popular and in some kind of first tier slab...there's tons of things you can do with your money besides putting it in some fund. Over all, it seems that this is a good time for liquidity in some form or another. Good luck!
Since this thread is talking a little about everything I guess I can ask a question. My stockbroker called me up and wanted to set up an appointment to come in and do me and my wifes yearly IRA purchase. Its usually a mutual fund of stocks. I told him I would get back with him. This is the first time he has ever called me, and that tells me that maybe not many people are buying right now and are maybe holding off for a while which is what my gut tells me to do. I am not very savy with economics and frankly don't know where to put any money right now. I brought up PM's to him 3 or 4 years ago and he kind of blowed it off as a wierd type of investment but I bought some anyway.Bottom line is , where is the best place to put IRA money at present?
Note Longshot's comments, above: I checked my 401K policy today regarding taking money out and they now only let you withdraw 50% of your money and they require a notarized signature from my wife! Looks like the banks are screwing my feet to the ground. Or screwing something...
This is the first year that I did not put money into a retirement account of any sort. The money went into precious metals. I actually closed out my Roth IRA and took the penalty and paid the taxes in order to buy more PMs. (I am already up enough to more than cover the penalty, taxes and then some.)
Note Longshot's comments, above. This is what I expect to happen when the government and banks can't manipulate YOUR MONEY any more. Well, they can't manipulate it if they can't lay their hands on it. Very simple.
I left my IRA and my SEP/IRA intact, but I put significant %'s into SLV and integrated oil companies and pipeline companies.
Regarding IRA's and 401K's. If you recall, the main advantage for these types of accounts was to theoretically defer payment of taxes on income until you retired and were in a "lower tax bracket." Right? Well, if they inflate at a rate of 7% or 14% or whatever it really is, you are taking a hit every single year!! And then, you still pay taxes on any earnings when you do take the money out at a "lower tax bracket."
The really insidious thing about inflation is that it also affects your income level, which directly translates into higher taxes paid on a current basis. The dollars are worth less, but the tax rate is higher. What a scam.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I haven't closed my Roth IRA either - sold all my other MF's to be able to feel safer, but that money is just sitting there now - need to do something with it myself --- thanks for reminder. But what to do. What is SLV? And could you name some specific oil stocks that are good ones? I don't know one iota about which stocks are good to get and that are SAFE. I guess I am a low risker.
What's this about some of the banks will be closing down ... Big banks? Smaller banks? Is our money safe in our bank any more? If we took the actual cash out, will we later down the road just be using it for toilet paper?
I know this is a coin forum, and not good place for advice, but I feel more comfortable asking these questions here vs. a strange forum where I have never been and wouldn't know a freak from a floor show.
I was thinking of buying online PM of sorts with just a small amount of money - as I actually do prefer taking physical delivery. CD's just aren't paying piddly. 5% is nothing, while better than nought I know.
What is everyone else doing to keep their money 'safe'? And please give name of stock or MF - or whatever it is. I did keep one MF that is in my Roth IRA, FSDAX MF Defense Fund, it's a 5 star with Morningstar - that's the only way I know to judge since I am a noob at this stuff. It has been pretty good to me (til things got bad, of course.)
Also, does anyone recommend the larger online companies such as Fidelity or keeping your money in a local smaller bank where you can grab it if you might possibly need TP. My thought is that I hate to spend allll my cash on PM's and I don't want to buy art.
BTW I read yesterday that fixing up your bathroom countertops is a bad invesment and not increasing value of your home these days. We have a new home, so everything is new anyway.
No matter what you invest in, the safest way is to average in - spread your purchases over a period of time. All of the precious metals have risen fast, which means that there is a serious risk of a pullback/correction - whatever you want to call it. THAT means you could lose serious money. That's what volatility means. Note - "averaging in" does require some discipline, not to get too anxious, greedy or scared while doing it. An example of "averaging in" would be to buy 25% of your position on the 15th day of the month, 4 months in a row, regardless of what the price is doing when you pull the trigger. You have to know in advance that that is what you want to do.
The only way to play it safe at this point while investing in precious metals (or petroleum) is to "average in." Having said that, SLV is an ETF, or "Exchange-Traded Fund" which actually owns the precious metal and it listed on the Exchange (NYSE?). It's price varies directly with the price of silver, and the transaction costs are the same as if you bought a stock. Besides owning the metal, an ETF is the next-best thing, especially since an IRA, a Roth IRA, a SEP/IRA, (and I assume - a 401K, if the rules and the administrator will allow it) can all buy it.
The integrated oils include names like: ConocoPhillips, Marathon Petroleum, British Petroleum, Shell Oil, ExxonMobil, and even Sun Oil Company. They are all so large that if one segment of their business goes down, the other segments compensate for it. They also have different exposures to international holdings, which provides some additional diversification. I believe that they are all involved (or will be) with the oil sands in Canada, which is a major source of our future oil supply. Enbridge is a major pipeline that has pipes running from the oil sands into major U.S. nexus points. Suncor is a major producer in the oil sands. EnCana is a major Canadian natural gas producer with pipeline operations as well. All of these companies will be around for a long time.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I've already started my Roth IRA purchases for the year and so far have added Pfizer (PFE) and continued my monthly allocation to mutual fund Muhlenkamp (MUHLX). This year, aside from MUHLX which is my core holding and makes up almost 50% of my portfolio, I plan on adding more dividend paying stocks (hence the Pfizer). I'll also be buying both Unilever (UN) and Dupont (DD).
Comments
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Our roads, bridges, and levies are falling into a state of disrepair and we do not have the funds to fix them because all of our money is going to Iraq. >>
IMO, the $150 billion for the "stimulus package" would have been FAR better spent by funding infrastructure projects. It's far better to use the money for a real national need that will stay in the domestic economy -- and provide domestic jobs -- than send out 100 million glorified Wal-Mart gift cards which will stimulate China's economy more than our own.
Regardless of my own opinion on the state of affairs in Iraq, I grow weary of the attitude that it's the only drag on our federal budget and the only reason why other "higher priority" funding needs go unmet.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I Hillary loses the Nomination I am going McCain!!!! Plain and simple. >>
So what is it about socialism that you hold so dear to your heart? What is it about freedom that you despise? >>
There's a very complicated explanation for it. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's called voting for the lesser of two evils. If you are really interested in limiting the size and scope of government, it's not that hard to figure out who you should vote for. Here's a hint: It's not the party seeking to raise taxes through the roof and introduce compulsory socialized health insurance and other massive new government entitlements. >>
That's what you do. It's not what I do.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I Hillary loses the Nomination I am going McCain!!!! Plain and simple. >>
So what is it about socialism that you hold so dear to your heart? What is it about freedom that you despise? >>
There's a very complicated explanation for it. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's called voting for the lesser of two evils. If you are really interested in limiting the size and scope of government, it's not that hard to figure out who you should vote for. Here's a hint: It's not the party seeking to raise taxes through the roof and introduce compulsory socialized health insurance and other massive new government entitlements. >>
The size of the government went up under the last five Republican presidents and down under Clinton. In fact, it appears the Republicans since Nixon love big government:
Link
The size of the budget deficit went up under the last four Republican presidents and down under Clinton. It was unchanged (within a few billion) under Carter.
"Deficit" is another word for taxation, but it keeps sheeple voting in the people running up the deficits since the pain of the spending is delayed so somebody else can take the blame.
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
<< <i>The Republican leadership has committed the worst strategic blunder in the history of our country, has instituted domestic spying that tramples upon our Constitutional rights, has squandered our financial resources and left our economy in a tail spin, and yet a good part of their constituency is using Roe v Wade as the litmus test for electing the next President. Those people have gotten what they deserve, the problem is that all other Americans have paid the same price for their folly. >>
Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned.
<< <i>The Republican leadership has committed the worst strategic blunder in the history of our country, has instituted domestic spying that tramples upon our Constitutional rights, has squandered our financial resources and left our economy in a tail spin, and yet a good part of their constituency is using Roe v Wade as the litmus test for electing the next President. Those people have gotten what they deserve, the problem is that all other Americans have paid the same price for their folly. >>
I don't know... I think the Federal Reserve Act was likely the biggest blunder.
<< <i>Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned >>
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
CG
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
Don't worry, your team is sure to catch up if they win in '08.
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
Others believe that important decisions - like when it is appropriate to take a life - should be left to the democratic political process rather than to 9 appointed judges. We are the only "democracy" that strips its citizens of the right to vote on the abortion laws.
<< <i> The size of the budget deficit went up under the last four Republican presidents and down under Clinton. It was unchanged (within a few billion) under Carter.
I'm just a stickler for historical facts and accuracy.
Don't worry, your team is sure to catch up if they win in '08. >>
I have loads of historical evidence on my side that they won't. I'll go with that.
CG
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed.
CG >>
Yep.
People who keep spending without paying for it are called "freeloaders" where I come from.
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed. >>
Tax-and-spend versus borrow-and-spend. What we need is a SPEND LESS alternative. But everyone wants their own goodies, so they agree to fund everyone else's goodies too -- not realizing that if they funded NO one's goodies, they could buy their own goodies for a fraction of the tax savings they would realize.
Politics is the art of bribing people with their own money.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned >>
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
CG >>
The problem is that the fastest growing demographics dont know anything about family planning.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i> What we need is a SPEND LESS alternative. But everyone wants their own goodies, so they agree to fund everyone else's goodies too >>
Yes, this is the “pork barrel” spending and “earmark” problem that Sen. McCain has been trying to fix. One of McCain’s strong points. But fixing that problem will not solve the Federal spending problem if we continue to through billions of dollars into Iraq.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Some people consider the ~ 45 million babies aborted under Roe v. Wade to be a little more important than the issues you mentioned >>
Other people believe that the most serious of all family planning decisions should be left to the families and not the Federal government.
CG >>
The problem is that the fastest growing demographics dont know anything about family planning. >>
Sorry for jumping in here, but the statement above just begs a moral viewpiont: Abortion is murder. Leaving the decision whether murder is ok or not has NEVER been left in the hands of the average man, family or whatever. You must have moral absolutes, and anyone advocating otherwise invites anarchy and murder. I don't care what political label you wear...no moral absolutes equals the end of society.
And, just to toss this in: Anyone in favor of abortion really only needs to answer one question for me: Would you have wanted to be aborted? If your answer is yes, you're lying or insane (assuming the basic fight/flight instinct is present...if it ain't, well there are guns and razor blades aplenty.).
Flame on...
i predict it shall go up more in the future.
(trying to change the topic back to the main point of this thread)
<< <i>
And, just to toss this in: Anyone in favor of abortion really only needs to answer one question for me: Would you have wanted to be aborted? If your answer is yes, you're lying or insane (assuming the basic fight/flight instinct is present...if it ain't, well there are guns and razor blades aplenty.).
Flame on... >>
Discussing political parties in general is SOMEWHAT related to the economy and by extension to PM, so (by a stretch) you can justify them being on a coin chatboard. On the other hand, no such link, tenuous or otherwise, can be made on a Venn diagram of abortion and coins.
There are plenty of abortion debate chatrooms around. Maybe the people who want to try to change this discussion into an abortion debate can go to those other chatrooms. We wouldn't want this thread to go POOF, would we?
Not true...I bought a coin and when I got it home, it was an abortion.
<< <i>"...no such link, tenuous or otherwise, can be made on a Venn diagram of abortion and coins."
Not true...I bought a coin and when I got it home, it was an abortion. >>
Sounds messy!
Lender ordered to halt foreclosures
<< <i>Man ol man, this just keep getting wilder everyday. Do you think this will be a problem for the banks?
Lender ordered to halt foreclosures >>
Apparently they think it's better for the economy to let banks fail and throw a lot more employees out of work than to foreclose on a few more properties.
If this isn't judicial activism, I don't know what is.
A couple of comments -
Yesterday, they loosened the reserve limits for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac yesterday, in addition to increasing the number of loans on problem mortgages that they can hold.
They've also lowered the discount rate at the FED, even while banks are raising mortgage rates and implementing stricter lending standards.
So, it appears that they are still protecting the banks by inserting the government (and it's guarantees) deeper into the loan market in order to protect them from their bad management and greed.
On the other hand, we have Hillary - jawboning Congress to pass a 5-year moratorium on mortgage rate increases for the people who should never have been able to qualify for a loan in the first place.
In either extreme, guess who pays the tab. Go on, guess.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>971...and running. >>
and still 100% aerobic!
Or screwing something...
$1000 gold
$20 silver
500 HUI index
0.72 USDX
Yowser.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>971...and running. >>
and still 100% aerobic! >>
Fantastic analogy! Love it.
<< <i>Dreadhorse, are they building a boarder crossing that will be manned by Guards...or is it just going to be bridges left for free crossing? Where does it begin and where will it end!
It sounds like a Bush business and that is the reason no one will touch it! Not even the Govenor.
Remember too that the BUSHES were Deplomates living in China for years!!!!!!!! >>
No guards, no nothing. These bridges are out in the middle of nowhere.
In south Texas, the river is fairly wide and has a strong undercurrent. Many have drowned trying to cross there, so we are building them bridges!!
Built by US contractors and OSHA approved for safety. Some are over a quarter mile long.
There are pictures of them but border patrol has confiscated many. Texans are being harassed by border guards if we go near them.
It sure makes plenty of us wonder just what the Hell is going on.
The Minutemen are the best source for information on these things.
Personally, I'd like to see them blown up. However, I have no experience in such things.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>The problem with the Republican platform is that is based upon slashing Federal revenues while increasing Federal spending, which can only lead to further stagflation—perhaps to the point where the economy will be driven into a crises the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. A least the “tax and spend” Democrats recognize that in order to spend money, the Federal government must procure the money, and that in order to raise taxes and spend the money the backing of the electorate is needed.
CG >>
Our tax dollars don't go into the US Treasury. When will people learn?
Clinton never came close to balancing the budget by raising taxes, he cooked the books.
All of our federal income tax goes to the Federal Reserve, which is a group of the mega wealthy living primarily in Europe.
Oh, and one more thing........... War is actually good for the economy, always has been.
Do your own research if you don't want to face the ugly little secret by reading it here.
Where does that money go? It goes to US contractors and factories and it's workers and trickles down into the economy.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
However, it is a little harsh on the dead and
wounded and the families that must bear the
anguish. Heaven help us all, if this then is the
reality of this Nation's tomorrow.
Wars are always started by the old, (who should
know better), but are always fought by the young.
Camelot
<< <i>I checked my 401K policy today regarding taking money out and they now only let you withdraw 50% of your money and they require a notarized signature from my wife! Looks like the banks are screwing my feet to the ground.
Or screwing something... >>
our bending you over the desk! ouch
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>Yes War is a wonderful thing for the economy.
However, it is a little harsh on the dead and
wounded and the families that must bear the
anguish. Heaven help us all, if this then is the
reality of this Nation's tomorrow.
Wars are always started by the old, (who should
know better), but are always fought by the young. >>
Couldn't agree more.
However, it always irks me a bit when I hear all the bashers say we are spending X billion on the war in the Middle East.
We are spending it on the infrastructure to support the fighting machine and that does put money into our economy at home.
As a side note, we also need to remember that we haven't been hit since 9-11, over 700 major attacks on our home soil have already been thwarted and these attacks are being planned from the Middle East.
The powers that be also want a US presence in the Middle East, we aren't leaving Iraq even when all the violence subsides.
The real economic powers over there want us to be there. They all fear Iran more than they do us.
If you tell people that the war in the Middle East has been the safest war the US has ever fought, in terms of loss of American life, they look at you dumbfounded. Of course the media includes training fatalities that occur in the US as casualties in Iraq, so I suppose it's a matter of being dumbed down by our own media. Our public education system has made it very easy to manipulate the thoughts and emotions of the average sheeple.
I suppose that's why an empty suit like Obama can find such support.
Al Queada is praying to Allah for his election, that should tell the American public something.
Oh yeah, the US media isn't letting us know about that, silly me for thinking rationally.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
financial houses in order and stop spending
we then bring the entire world to ruin.
If we keep spending money that we do not actually
have then we bring the world to ruin.
I remember as a small cub, that my parents did not have
credit cards or even a checking account. They worked on
a cash basis. After the must pay bills were taken care of
what was left was all we had to spend. You ran out of
money you just stopped spending.
We did not have much money in the bank, but we did not
owe any money either. The National debt was 280 billion dollars
and Congress screamed if the debt ceiling had to be raised by
a hundred million dollars.
I do not have a PHD in economics, but it seems to me that folks
are not going to be able to depend on the Government to bail us
out. We will have to bail ourselves out regardless of who is in
control of the Government come 2009.
What to do:
1. Most important cash in a FDIC bank account
If you can not spare 6 months expenses, then
at least a few months reserve. This will protect
against recession . Enough reserve and you have
money to purchase assets at reduced prices. Sell
some assets if necessary to create this fund.
2. Begin to reduce non critical expenditures as much
as is reasonably possible. Take the savings even if it
is loose change or a few dollars and at to you reserve fund.
This will stop digging the hole you are in and begin to restore
you true asset base. Less meals out, more home entertainment,
, cheaper vacations,less cloths, buy only items you need
and then only on sale.If I am right, this downturn could be longer
then the usual 9 month average. In fact, for many, we may be looking
at a 18 -24 month period of hard times.
3. Some coins, precious metals, art will help against
inflation. However these assets might not always be
liquid assets in a severe downturn. If necessary, sell
some of you less favorite items for your cash reserve.
4. Some common stock. These will provide long term
protection against inflation and although they may
suffer losses, they remain in the category of liquid
assets . Money can be borrows from 401k plans, but
the money must be paid back in 5 years and the loss
seriously diminishes long term appreciation needed for
retirement.
5.If you are a two income family, remember, in a downturn
one or both jobs may be lost. This means that one or both of
you must accept a job with lesser pay or benefits.
6. Pay down high interest short term debt as fast as is possible.
11% - 23% interest can really kill you. In fact, try to leave the
credit card at home and only use in emergencies.
7. Gas will indeed go to 4 dollars a gallon this summer. If you car
averages 20 miles a gallon and you make a non essential round trip of
40 miles, it will have cost you $8 just for gas. It is easy to use the credit
card for a 60 dollar fill up. However its really tough when the bill comes due.
Camelot
-sm
The Maddy Rae Collection
CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
even more beer!
Camelot
<< <i>Yes War is a wonderful thing for the economy.
However, it is a little harsh on the dead and
wounded and the families that must bear the
anguish. Heaven help us all, if this then is the
reality of this Nation's tomorrow.
Wars are always started by the old, (who should
know better), but are always fought by the young. >>
Yes and we're not always right about war ( Vietnam ) and when we do these types of things and not make ammends for the parts we played, even after realizing we were wrong, we are doomed to deal even more hardship and death upon others, otherwise called "doomed to repeat the same mistakes".
Only when we can look in the mirror after taking full stock of what we are responsible for, then making ammends for thise things will be begin to heal ourselves as well as those we have harmed.
We are not even looking at that possibility.
It all begins with the individual. Then we can look at who "leads" us.
In the meantime , it's great to be in this business
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
How's your fund advisor going to make any money with you going out and blowing your wad on PM? So far, PM's have yielded about 15% over the last year...not a bad choice with you going out and wasting your buks on PM. What did his fund yield? It is not great form to give financial advice in a forum thread, even if some of the posters are very expert at growing buks. Suggest you do a little dilligence and look at the different vehicles available to you. You can look at petroleum related industries like pipelines and processors, you can look at CD's (seems like most folk can get about 5% and change for these), you can look at having a cash account to pay for your normal expenses like gas, food, and stuff (just keep a little wad folded up in your pocket) and write checks for the big ticket items, you can look at paying off any debt you might have and using an Amex for your credit purchases (you have to pay the balance at the end of the billing cycle), you can even look at upgrading your house kitchen/baths/finishes, you can look at some nice coins that are popular and in some kind of first tier slab...there's tons of things you can do with your money besides putting it in some fund. Over all, it seems that this is a good time for liquidity in some form or another. Good luck!
JMHO, DYODD, for entertainment purposes only
Note Longshot's comments, above: I checked my 401K policy today regarding taking money out and they now only let you withdraw 50% of your money and they require a notarized signature from my wife! Looks like the banks are screwing my feet to the ground.
Or screwing something...
This is the first year that I did not put money into a retirement account of any sort. The money went into precious metals. I actually closed out my Roth IRA and took the penalty and paid the taxes in order to buy more PMs. (I am already up enough to more than cover the penalty, taxes and then some.)
Note Longshot's comments, above. This is what I expect to happen when the government and banks can't manipulate YOUR MONEY any more. Well, they can't manipulate it if they can't lay their hands on it. Very simple.
I left my IRA and my SEP/IRA intact, but I put significant %'s into SLV and integrated oil companies and pipeline companies.
Regarding IRA's and 401K's. If you recall, the main advantage for these types of accounts was to theoretically defer payment of taxes on income until you retired and were in a "lower tax bracket." Right? Well, if they inflate at a rate of 7% or 14% or whatever it really is, you are taking a hit every single year!! And then, you still pay taxes on any earnings when you do take the money out at a "lower tax bracket."
The really insidious thing about inflation is that it also affects your income level, which directly translates into higher taxes paid on a current basis. The dollars are worth less, but the tax rate is higher. What a scam.
I knew it would happen.
Under our present ecomomic conditions, I have been looking at the Prudent Global Income Fund.
What's this about some of the banks will be closing down ... Big banks? Smaller banks? Is our money safe in our bank any more? If we took the actual cash out, will we later down the road just be using it for toilet paper?
I know this is a coin forum, and not good place for advice, but I feel more comfortable asking these questions here vs. a strange forum where I have never been and wouldn't know a freak from a floor show.
I was thinking of buying online PM of sorts with just a small amount of money - as I actually do prefer taking physical delivery. CD's just aren't paying piddly. 5% is nothing, while better than nought I know.
What is everyone else doing to keep their money 'safe'? And please give name of stock or MF - or whatever it is.
I did keep one MF that is in my Roth IRA, FSDAX MF Defense Fund, it's a 5 star with Morningstar - that's the only way I know to judge since I am a noob at this stuff. It has been pretty good to me (til things got bad, of course.)
Also, does anyone recommend the larger online companies such as Fidelity or keeping your money in a local smaller bank where you can grab it if you might possibly need TP. My thought is that I hate to spend allll my cash on PM's and I don't want to buy art.
BTW I read yesterday that fixing up your bathroom countertops is a bad invesment and not increasing value of your home these days. We have a new home, so everything is new anyway.
The only way to play it safe at this point while investing in precious metals (or petroleum) is to "average in." Having said that, SLV is an ETF, or "Exchange-Traded Fund" which actually owns the precious metal and it listed on the Exchange (NYSE?). It's price varies directly with the price of silver, and the transaction costs are the same as if you bought a stock. Besides owning the metal, an ETF is the next-best thing, especially since an IRA, a Roth IRA, a SEP/IRA, (and I assume - a 401K, if the rules and the administrator will allow it) can all buy it.
The integrated oils include names like: ConocoPhillips, Marathon Petroleum, British Petroleum, Shell Oil, ExxonMobil, and even Sun Oil Company. They are all so large that if one segment of their business goes down, the other segments compensate for it. They also have different exposures to international holdings, which provides some additional diversification. I believe that they are all involved (or will be) with the oil sands in Canada, which is a major source of our future oil supply. Enbridge is a major pipeline that has pipes running from the oil sands into major U.S. nexus points. Suncor is a major producer in the oil sands. EnCana is a major Canadian natural gas producer with pipeline operations as well. All of these companies will be around for a long time.
I knew it would happen.
RJ
Every clause has a gold lining