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230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin (24YG)

1235719

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  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @changeofpace said:

    @Manorcourtman said:
    Here's an offer to buy on the BST board: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1108804/buying-opportunity-230th-gold-flowing-hair-coins-on-release-day-collect-pure#latest

    I never heard of the company. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Yes, I've had a good experience so far. Friends have sold mid-six figures of Costco gold to them and all has gone smoothly. Customer service is very fast to answer any questions and the owner is a member on this forum: https://forums.collectors.com/profile/comments/treybenedict

    "Mid six figures"? A half million in Costco gold? On a flip? At a profit? Really?

  • changeofpacechangeofpace Posts: 16
    edited November 11, 2024 6:57PM

    @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @Manorcourtman said:
    Here's an offer to buy on the BST board: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1108804/buying-opportunity-230th-gold-flowing-hair-coins-on-release-day-collect-pure#latest

    I never heard of the company. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Yes, I've had a good experience so far. Friends have sold mid-six figures of Costco gold to them and all has gone smoothly. Customer service is very fast to answer any questions and the owner is a member on this forum: https://forums.collectors.com/profile/comments/treybenedict

    "Mid six figures"? A half million in Costco gold? On a flip? At a profit? Really?

    Yes. Very lucrative with the right credit cards. And obviously that's not all at once, but the amount they've sold over time.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @changeofpace said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @Manorcourtman said:
    Here's an offer to buy on the BST board: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1108804/buying-opportunity-230th-gold-flowing-hair-coins-on-release-day-collect-pure#latest

    I never heard of the company. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Yes, I've had a good experience so far. Friends have sold mid-six figures of Costco gold to them and all has gone smoothly. Customer service is very fast to answer any questions and the owner is a member on this forum: https://forums.collectors.com/profile/comments/treybenedict

    "Mid six figures"? A half million in Costco gold? On a flip? At a profit? Really?

    Yes. Very lucrative with the right credit cards. Can't wait until NJ stops taxing gold in January so I can join them. :)

    Okay. But how does Pure make money? Don't they have their own credit cards? Why would they need your friends? Sounds a little sketchy to me.

  • @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @Manorcourtman said:
    Here's an offer to buy on the BST board: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1108804/buying-opportunity-230th-gold-flowing-hair-coins-on-release-day-collect-pure#latest

    I never heard of the company. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Yes, I've had a good experience so far. Friends have sold mid-six figures of Costco gold to them and all has gone smoothly. Customer service is very fast to answer any questions and the owner is a member on this forum: https://forums.collectors.com/profile/comments/treybenedict

    "Mid six figures"? A half million in Costco gold? On a flip? At a profit? Really?

    Yes. Very lucrative with the right credit cards. Can't wait until NJ stops taxing gold in January so I can join them. :)

    Okay. But how does Pure make money? Don't they have their own credit cards? Why would they need your friends? Sounds a little sketchy to me.

    Pure is a marketplace. You can read more about how it operates and the background of its founders here: https://www.collectpure.com/blog/how-the-pure-marketplace-works

  • treybenedicttreybenedict Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2024 7:05PM

    @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @changeofpace said:

    @Manorcourtman said:
    Here's an offer to buy on the BST board: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1108804/buying-opportunity-230th-gold-flowing-hair-coins-on-release-day-collect-pure#latest

    I never heard of the company. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Yes, I've had a good experience so far. Friends have sold mid-six figures of Costco gold to them and all has gone smoothly. Customer service is very fast to answer any questions and the owner is a member on this forum: https://forums.collectors.com/profile/comments/treybenedict

    "Mid six figures"? A half million in Costco gold? On a flip? At a profit? Really?

    Yes. Very lucrative with the right credit cards. Can't wait until NJ stops taxing gold in January so I can join them. :)

    Okay. But how does Pure make money? Don't they have their own credit cards? Why would they need your friends? Sounds a little sketchy to me.

    I would suggest reading this: https://www.collectpure.com/blog/how-the-pure-marketplace-works

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    It's good that the gold spot price is going down (at least this week). :)


    At this point gold spot is leveling out and looking for some upside.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    It's good that the gold spot price is going down (at least this week). :)

    Cuz $3600 vs $3700 will make all of the difference...

    It does for me considering the exchange rate to Canadian dollar.

    It's 3% in any currency

    Yes and you know a lot of collectors squawk about paying 3% mark ups over spot for bullion or NCLT. I hear that …. All too often.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    It's good that the gold spot price is going down (at least this week). :)

    Cuz $3600 vs $3700 will make all of the difference...

    It does for me considering the exchange rate to Canadian dollar.

    It's 3% in any currency

    Yes and you know a lot of collectors squawk about paying 3% mark ups over spot for bullion or NCLT. I hear that …. All too often.

    Yup. And heaven knows I really hate sticking up for @jmlanzaf, but that was not his point.

    A 3% decline in anything is always welcome if you are a buyer. But he was responding to someone saying they were saving even more, because they are based in Canada. As though a 3% decline in USD is not also a 3% decline in any other currency. He's right.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2024 7:53PM

    .

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    It's good that the gold spot price is going down (at least this week). :)

    Cuz $3600 vs $3700 will make all of the difference...

    It does for me considering the exchange rate to Canadian dollar.

    It's 3% in any currency

    Yes and you know a lot of collectors squawk about paying 3% mark ups over spot for bullion or NCLT. I hear that …. All too often.

    Yup. And heaven knows I really hate sticking up for @jmlanzaf, but that was not his point.

    A 3% decline in anything is always welcome if you are a buyer. But he was responding to someone saying they were saving even more, because they are based in Canada. As though a 3% decline in USD is not also a 3% decline in any other currency. He's right.

    Thank you. That is correct.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    It's good that the gold spot price is going down (at least this week). :)

    Cuz $3600 vs $3700 will make all of the difference...

    It does for me considering the exchange rate to Canadian dollar.

    It's 3% in any currency

    Yes and you know a lot of collectors squawk about paying 3% mark ups over spot for bullion or NCLT. I hear that …. All too often.

    But how many people jump in for 30% over because it isn't 33% over?

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2024 7:55PM

    .

  • Baylor8670Baylor8670 Posts: 70 ✭✭✭

    Still no price announced?

    Do you have to buy the coin to find out how much it costs?

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 6:39AM

    @Baylor8670 said:
    Still no price announced?

    Do you have to buy the coin to find out how much it costs?

    Price established late Wed/Thurs morning based on weekly London spot rate ending Wednesday. Looking like $3620 or $3670

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was in on this but don’t like the catching the falling knife this is turning into. I won’t be in the waiting room the first minute on sale. I have to watch and see where the dust settles. Could be cheaper a week from now. If it sells out at least I didn’t lose money.

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:
    I was in on this but don’t like the catching the falling knife this is turning into. I won’t be in the waiting room the first minute on sale. I have to watch and see where the dust settles. Could be cheaper a week from now. If it sells out at least I didn’t lose money.

    Depends on if you really want it for your collection or if you are buying to flip it.

    Trust your gut.😎

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WQuarterFreddie said:

    @JimTyler said:
    I was in on this but don’t like the catching the falling knife this is turning into. I won’t be in the waiting room the first minute on sale. I have to watch and see where the dust settles. Could be cheaper a week from now. If it sells out at least I didn’t lose money.

    Depends on if you really want it for your collection or if you are buying to flip it.

    Trust your gut.😎

    I don’t mind saying keeping it however I don’t want to have to keep it because price crashes. I’m too old to play long term that’s why I leaning towards not buying not losing but would like to own it.

  • goldbuffalogoldbuffalo Posts: 635 ✭✭✭

    @Liquidated said:

    @Baylor8670 said:
    Still no price announced?

    Do you have to buy the coin to find out how much it costs?

    Price established late Wed/Thurs morning based on weekly London spot rate ending Wednesday. Looking like $3620 or $3670

    $3640 or $3690 that is..

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 10:48AM

    @goldbuffalo said:

    @Liquidated said:

    @Baylor8670 said:
    Still no price announced?

    Do you have to buy the coin to find out how much it costs?

    Price established late Wed/Thurs morning based on weekly London spot rate ending Wednesday. Looking like $3620 or $3670

    $3640 or $3690 that is..

    @goldbuffalo said:

    @Liquidated said:

    @Baylor8670 said:
    Still no price announced?

    Do you have to buy the coin to find out how much it costs?

    Price established late Wed/Thurs morning based on weekly London spot rate ending Wednesday. Looking like $3620 or $3670

    $3640 or $3690 that is..

    Good call. Was looking at prior mints grid. Looking at London prices over past week may be $3690
    New grid: https://www.usmint.gov/content/dam/usmint/shop/Pricing-Grid.pdf

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    As far as the auction of 230 Privy marked gold - my opinion is that these will not exceed prices for 2020 V75 Privy marked gold because these coins are not part of a larger collected "set" such as the American Gold Eagles; they are just a one off commemorative.
    I would think pricing will be strong - but i'm thinking that even crossing the 10k mark will be tough for these. Raw 2020 v75 Gold was in the 10-12k range at the time of issuance.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    Im assuming the USM will be selling raw coins and not "partnering" with a TPG to offer them certified (they have eluded to this in many surveys)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 4:01PM

    @coiner said:
    As far as the auction of 230 Privy marked gold - my opinion is that these will not exceed prices for 2020 V75 Privy marked gold because these coins are not part of a larger collected "set" such as the American Gold Eagles; they are just a one off commemorative.
    I would think pricing will be strong - but i'm thinking that even crossing the 10k mark will be tough for these. Raw 2020 v75 Gold was in the 10-12k range at the time of issuance.

    I agree.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:
    Im assuming the USM will be selling raw coins and not "partnering" with a TPG to offer them certified (they have eluded to this in many surveys)

    I'm pretty sure that assumption would be incorrect. Why do you think they would go to all the trouble of arranging an elaborate auction, and then leave all the money involved in slabbing on the table?

    They did not do that the last time, and almost certainly will not now either. The will all sell for a ton of money, far, far, far, far more than $10K each (silver privys with signed COAs go for that much and more), and 70s will go for a lot more than 69s.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 4:26PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @coiner said:
    As far as the auction of 230 Privy marked gold - my opinion is that these will not exceed prices for 2020 V75 Privy marked gold because these coins are not part of a larger collected "set" such as the American Gold Eagles; they are just a one off commemorative.
    I would think pricing will be strong - but i'm thinking that even crossing the 10k mark will be tough for these. Raw 2020 v75 Gold was in the 10-12k range at the time of issuance.

    I agree.

    Again, we'll see. 230 vs 1945. And the 1945 sell for $20K+. I'm thinking $30-50K. Maybe more. The good news is this won't be close, one way or the other, since the predictions are so far apart ($10K vs. >>>>>>$20K).

    You've seen silver medal privys go for $3-5K+, with a mintage 8x as large. You can't honestly think these will struggle to sell for 2x-3x more, based on the mintage alone, before considering the difference in value between gold and silver. So you are almost certainly just posting to generate a reaction. Happy to oblige. 😀

  • D808LFD808LF Posts: 478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any mention on 'how' this privy coin auction will be conducted?

    fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 4:20PM

    @D808LF said:
    Any mention on 'how' this privy coin auction will be conducted?

    Not yet. TBA. If it's like the last time, it will be Stack's. It will certainly be one of the 3 biggies (Stack's, HA, GC).

    Won't be cheap. Only good news will be no buyer's premium. Whatever the house is going to get will be coming from the Mint. And, no sales tax anywhere, since it will treated as a Mint sale, rather than an auction house sale.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @D808LF said:
    Any mention on 'how' this privy coin auction will be conducted?

    Not yet. TBA. If it's like the last time, it will be Stack's. It will certainly be one of the 3 biggies (Stack's, HA, GC).

    Won't be cheap. Only good news will be no buyer's premium. Whatever the house is going to get will be coming from the Mint. And, no sales tax anywhere, since it will treated as a Mint sale, rather than an auction house sale.


    I am really looking forward to this auction.

    Still deciding on the event popcorn, lots of butter or lots of butter and salt!!


  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 6:58PM

    @Goldbully said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @D808LF said:
    Any mention on 'how' this privy coin auction will be conducted?

    Not yet. TBA. If it's like the last time, it will be Stack's. It will certainly be one of the 3 biggies (Stack's, HA, GC).

    Won't be cheap. Only good news will be no buyer's premium. Whatever the house is going to get will be coming from the Mint. And, no sales tax anywhere, since it will treated as a Mint sale, rather than an auction house sale.


    I am really looking forward to this auction.

    Still deciding on the event popcorn, lots of butter or lots of butter and salt!!


    Did you happen to catch the last one? It's not that crazy, and is very comparable to any other HA or SB auction.

    People here, now, just don't appreciate how high the bidding will go, given how few there are going to be, and how they are going to be marketed and hyped. Complete with signed COAs (1 of 230, 2 of 230, etc.) All in one place, at one time, being offered directly by the Mint.

    The first T-2 gold AGE struck last time went for $100K, and there was nothing special about the coin, other than the attribution. How many bullion AGEs are struck in a typical year?

    Now how much does anyone here think 1 of 230 of these is going to go for? With the die? It will be well north of $100K.

    And then #2, 3, and so on, all the way to 230. Likely certified by both NGC and PCGS, if not also CACG, who wasn't around the last time. 69s and 70s.

    Something for everyone. People thinking they will struggle to hit $10K are off by several tens of thousands of dollars if they don't think there are a lot more than 230 people in the world who will be interested in owning one, with the means to do so.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I broached the subject but perhaps no interest - do you all think the segregated group of 230 privy gold coins will put a damper on the price (value?) of the "ordinary" $3700 gold coin?

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    I broached the subject but perhaps no interest - do you all think the segregated group of 230 privy gold coins will put a damper on the price (value?) of the "ordinary" $3700 gold coin?

    Why would it? Has any special privy coin (or medal) ever had an impact, one way or the other, on the non-special, much greater mintage non-privy version?

    Especially with such a tiny number. These are going to be trading in another stratosphere that will in no way intersect with Planet Earth.

  • BaycityBaycity Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 8:37PM

    Wrong one

  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2024 8:52PM

    That edge image you posted reminds me of 2009 $20 UHR struck with a segmented collar. As edge details are struck in not rolled on afterwards most of these 2024FH Gold Dollars will be flawless 70s. Still laser etched dies for me are less appealing than classic cameos. When did the Mint switch to laser etched cameo proof die production ?

    @Goldbully said:

    @VanHalen said:

    @Alwayslooking1 said:
    Basic question: Will these gold “coins” be considered Legal Tender? Does the word “unit” equal Legal Tender?

    The edge lettering is, "HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT". Making this the largest gold dollar in history, by a wide margin.


    You can say that again!!!





  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @coiner said:
    As far as the auction of 230 Privy marked gold - my opinion is that these will not exceed prices for 2020 V75 Privy marked gold because these coins are not part of a larger collected "set" such as the American Gold Eagles; they are just a one off commemorative.
    I would think pricing will be strong - but i'm thinking that even crossing the 10k mark will be tough for these. Raw 2020 v75 Gold was in the 10-12k range at the time of issuance.

    I agree.

    Again, we'll see. 230 vs 1945. And the 1945 sell for $20K+. I'm thinking $30-50K. Maybe more. The good news is this won't be close, one way or the other, since the predictions are so far apart ($10K vs. >>>>>>$20K).

    You've seen silver medal privys go for $3-5K+, with a mintage 8x as large. You can't honestly think these will struggle to sell for 2x-3x more, based on the mintage alone, before considering the difference in value between gold and silver. So you are almost certainly just posting to generate a reaction. Happy to oblige. 😀

    NJ - not even close. v75 sells for 20k+ in a 70 holder/FDOI/FS. They do not trade at that level raw.

    5 figures is going to be hard to cross for these 230 coins but not impossible. The raws will never get above 20k (save for the #1 with the die).

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Do you think everybody who buys is flipping coins? There are many thousands of very wealthy collectors in the United states.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    i'd say in the first few days and weeks of these being released/at auction - probably the majority will be flipped. This includes dealers buying and flipping to customers.

  • cinque1543cinque1543 Posts: 29
    edited November 13, 2024 6:17AM

    On its site today, APMEX has the new Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coin priced at $4,495 with December delivery. This is the "raw" coin in US Mint packaging.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    they are expecting a sellout. I would think if this is true by Friday evening or Monday, the big boys should be paying a premium of at least $200-$400 per coin.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    I'll be in Baltimore tomorrow morning - at the USm booth at noon. Hope to take some pics and share if there is a big line or a short queue.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2024 7:15AM

    @coiner said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @coiner said:
    As far as the auction of 230 Privy marked gold - my opinion is that these will not exceed prices for 2020 V75 Privy marked gold because these coins are not part of a larger collected "set" such as the American Gold Eagles; they are just a one off commemorative.
    I would think pricing will be strong - but i'm thinking that even crossing the 10k mark will be tough for these. Raw 2020 v75 Gold was in the 10-12k range at the time of issuance.

    I agree.

    Again, we'll see. 230 vs 1945. And the 1945 sell for $20K+. I'm thinking $30-50K. Maybe more. The good news is this won't be close, one way or the other, since the predictions are so far apart ($10K vs. >>>>>>$20K).

    You've seen silver medal privys go for $3-5K+, with a mintage 8x as large. You can't honestly think these will struggle to sell for 2x-3x more, based on the mintage alone, before considering the difference in value between gold and silver. So you are almost certainly just posting to generate a reaction. Happy to oblige. 😀

    NJ - not even close. v75 sells for 20k+ in a 70 holder/FDOI/FS. They do not trade at that level raw.

    5 figures is going to be hard to cross for these 230 coins but not impossible. The raws will never get above 20k (save for the #1 with the die).

    Why do you think these are going to be offered raw? Or why however many end up being offered in 69 holders will trade anywhere near where V75 69s trade, given one has 8x the mintage of the other?

    They are doing an auction to fully capture the value of a limited mintage of 230. Why on earth do you think they are going to leave the delta between 69s and 70s to lucky winners who will be bidding blind, not knowing what they will be getting?

    There will be 230 individual, unique lots. Each will have its own numbered, hand signed COA. And likely an accompanying number on a TPG slab, along with a grade.

    You are not going to be close here. Hand signed numbered pieces of paper accompanying 1794 silver medals sell for 5 figures. This is gold, not silver. 230, not 1794. Coin, not medal. Literally night and day.

    V75s sell for $20K+ in a 70 holder/FDOI/FS. What do you think 230 of these, individually numbered with a signed COA, will be worth in the same holder? Because THAT's what the Mint is going to be selling! Wanna revise your prediction before it's too late? 😀

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Some might buy hoping to flip or resell in the future. But the very nature of an auction like this means these will be fully priced when the hammer drops.

    So, other than dealers bidding on behalf of clients, it's highly unlikely anyone is going to making anything selling these immediately after the auction. Because, other than unique coin numbers, and the one with the die, there will be multiple examples of 69s and 70s, in various TPG holders. Limiting the possibility of bidding wars on particular lots creating bargains on other lots, creating the possibility of a profitable flip.

    Please just go an look at the auction results from the last time before forming an opinion here. You will see all the lots were very expensive, with similar items selling for similar prices.

    These are unique coins with signed, numbered COAs. Those were not unique coins and did not have signed, COAs. They just had numbers on a slab, corresponding to a strike number on a generic bullion coin. Night and day. As you will see.

    You are comparing this to 230 signed COAs accompanying 1794 silver medals. Big mistake. Because, with only 230 gold coins, the difference in value will be exponential, while you seem to think it will be similar.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Some might buy hoping to flip or resell in the future. But the very nature of an auction like this means these will be fully priced when the hammer drops.

    So, other than dealers bidding on behalf of clients, it's highly unlikely anyone is going to making anything selling these immediately after the auction. Because, other than unique coin numbers, and the one with the die, there will be multiple examples of 69s and 70s, in various TPG holders. Limiting the possibility of bidding wars on particular lots creating bargains on other lots, creating the possibility of a profitable flip.

    Please just go an look at the auction results from the last time before forming an opinion here. You will see all the lots were very expensive, with similar items selling for similar prices.

    These are unique coins with signed, numbered COAs. Those were not unique coins and did not have signed, COAs. They just had numbers on a slab, corresponding to a strike number on a generic bullion coin. Night and day. As you will see.

    You are comparing this to 230 signed COAs accompanying 1794 silver medals. Big mistake. Because, with only 230 gold coins, the difference in value will be exponential, while you seem to think it will be similar.

    No direct comparison should be made to either the V75 or the Dawn to Dusk. Both of those coins are part of a widely collected series. The demand side of the equation is radically different.

    Is there a reason you don't compare this coin to the Betty Ford $10 gold? Mintage of only 1000.

    Why does the 1995-W ASE sell for so much? There are 30,000 of them and it sells for more than any of the much scarcer 1st spouse coins.

    [The questions are, of course, rhetorical.]

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:
    they are expecting a sellout. I would think if this is true by Friday evening or Monday, the big boys should be paying a premium of at least $200-$400 per coin.

    Big "if," but, sure, if they sell out fast dealers will be paying a premium to obtain inventory. But what if dealers already have inventory, and are already offering them at a modest premium to issue price? What then?

    The two most recent completed sales on eBay were at $4700 for an Early Release and $4950 for a FDOI. Both 70s.

    How much does that tell you raw coins are going to be worth, sell out or no sell out? Tells me there won't be a sell out. And, if there is, the proud buyers better want to keep the coins.

    Because dealers seem to have what they need for now, based on the fact pre-sales are occurring at very modest percentage premiums. We'll see. Only 2 days to go!! 😀

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    Strong pricing by APMEX on raw coins and offers starting to appear (abliet not very enticing) at a premium to USM offering price suggests this coin has a shot at sellout.
    Pricing in the 5000 range for certified 70's is also strong for an issue of 17,500; you can buy certified 70's of gold 1 oz eagles and 1 oz gold buffaloes (current year release) for about $300 -$400 over. These are at least $1000 over.
    Either this will totally fall on its face and not sell out, or, a sellout will occur and prices on raws (as well as certifieds) will jump.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Your batting .100 or less on all your predictions. Where they are coming from we will never know but they seem to be your opinion only and not grounded in any type of experience.

    jmlanzaf posts are at least grounded in some factual evidence and experience. He knows how to assess these

    Instead of just blabbering all kinds of stuff just listen for once - you might learn something.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Some might buy hoping to flip or resell in the future. But the very nature of an auction like this means these will be fully priced when the hammer drops.

    So, other than dealers bidding on behalf of clients, it's highly unlikely anyone is going to making anything selling these immediately after the auction. Because, other than unique coin numbers, and the one with the die, there will be multiple examples of 69s and 70s, in various TPG holders. Limiting the possibility of bidding wars on particular lots creating bargains on other lots, creating the possibility of a profitable flip.

    Please just go an look at the auction results from the last time before forming an opinion here. You will see all the lots were very expensive, with similar items selling for similar prices.

    These are unique coins with signed, numbered COAs. Those were not unique coins and did not have signed, COAs. They just had numbers on a slab, corresponding to a strike number on a generic bullion coin. Night and day. As you will see.

    You are comparing this to 230 signed COAs accompanying 1794 silver medals. Big mistake. Because, with only 230 gold coins, the difference in value will be exponential, while you seem to think it will be similar.

    No direct comparison should be made to either the V75 or the Dawn to Dusk. Both of those coins are part of a widely collected series. The demand side of the equation is radically different.

    Is there a reason you don't compare this coin to the Betty Ford $10 gold? Mintage of only 1000.

    Why does the 1995-W ASE sell for so much? There are 30,000 of them and it sells for more than any of the much scarcer 1st spouse coins.

    [The questions are, of course, rhetorical.]

    Excellent points. OTOH, if you right about no one caring about 230 of these because, First Spouse, 17,500 of them at a $1,000 premium to spot are going to absolutely bomb. And that's not going to happen, even if they don't sell out.

    So, at the end of the day, while they are not AGEs, they ARE 230 of something that is historic and is going to be popular. So the V75 really is the closest comparison. In which case this is going to blow that away due to the mintage.

    Just look at where 1794 silver versions trade as compared to their 48,206 siblings to get an idea on where to begin calculating the multiple over the regular version. A raw silver privy with signed COA just sold for $8,500.

    230 signed COAs, but 1794 medals. In silver. Is a graded gold coin with 13% of the mintage REALLY going to have trouble breaking $10K? $20K? $30K? Etc.?

    I happen to think #1 with the die is going to go for far in excess of $100K. After that, it's anyone's guess, but I think the 70s will go for ~$50K, with the 69s coming in around ~$30K.

    So, please, everyone, feel free to bookmark this post and shove it in my face if $30K is either $28K or $32K, or even $29,999.99. 😀

    I'm putting myself out here and giving you all my best guess, based on a little experience and a lot of observation.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Your batting .100 or less on all your predictions. Where they are coming from we will never know but they seem to be your opinion only and not grounded in any type of experience.

    jmlanzaf posts are at least grounded in some factual evidence and experience. He knows how to assess these

    Instead of just blabbering all kinds of stuff just listen for once - you might learn something.

    And jmlanzaf "at least" admits that he doesn't know the future. Lol. I didn't "know" they minted only 50k of the silver, but i was open to accepting the actual data.

    I also will admit that it is hard to find a comp for the Flowing hair. The UHR or 2016 centennial coins are close. For some reason, those haven't been mentioned more.

    There's really no direct comp for the privy. I think they will sell well but I will not be surprised at any number between 10k and 30k. [Which is me basically saying nothing useful. ]

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2024 8:35AM

    @coiner said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Your batting .100 or less on all your predictions. Where they are coming from we will never know but they seem to be your opinion only and not grounded in any type of experience.

    jmlanzaf posts are at least grounded in some factual evidence and experience. He knows how to assess these

    Instead of just blabbering all kinds of stuff just listen for once - you might learn something.

    Sure I am. Because the Mint ran a lottery and then stopped production at 2/3 of the maximum, because the sale was so successful. So I'm probably due for a win now, no?

    I have no experience, but you think an ungraded gold coin, one of only 230, with a signed numbered COA, is going to sell at auction for around the same price as the silver medal version, with the same signed numbered COA, but a mintage of 1794? 🤣 What are you basing that on, other than wishful thinking?

    I have the experience of living through the only other Mint auction. They are not going to the trouble of conducting the auction to let you have a coin for $9K, go get it graded, and then win the lottery when it comes back 70 and is worth $50K.

    The lottery already came and went. These coins will all be selling for full value. In slabs. Just like the last time. Don't have to be Nostradamus to see that.

    With respect to listening, you also might want to consider doing that. $9K. Raw. At a Mint auction. After 17,500 of the non-privys sell out by 12:01 p.m. on Friday, and dealers immediately start paying several hundred dollar premiums for them. You can't have it both ways. 17,500 are not going to be worth $4500+ while 230 with privys and signed numbered COAs are worth barely twice that. 🤣🤣🤣

    You are going to be wrong twice. The good news is my batting average will increase significantly. The 17,500 might not sell out, and won't be going for huge premiums regardless. OTOH, the 230 privys will be worth a very large multiple of what you think 3x-5x+.

    You did very well snagging 75 silver medals before they went Unavailable, and then messed up by immediately flipping without knowing the mintage yourself. So maybe look in the mirror before talking about batting averages. You had the same information I did, and made the same mistake I did. Except mine didn't cost me any money.

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @coiner said:
    the question is - if you buy a raw 230 gold at auction - say 9000 bucks; where do you go with it except for grading in hopes of a "70" that would land you a profit?

    Irrelevant. You are only looking at it through your particular lens. Just go look at auction results from the Dawn and Dusk auction. Nothing here is going to be raw. Or close to $9K.

    Your batting .100 or less on all your predictions. Where they are coming from we will never know but they seem to be your opinion only and not grounded in any type of experience.

    jmlanzaf posts are at least grounded in some factual evidence and experience. He knows how to assess these

    Instead of just blabbering all kinds of stuff just listen for once - you might learn something.

    That guys low point may have been when he predicted the mint would be inundated with silver medal returns by people playing privy lottery. Guy just seeks interaction and best to not provide it and look past his thoughts. A lot of people are enjoying the silver and many will enjoy the gold. No point in allowing an individual to suck that joy away.

  • coinercoiner Posts: 593 ✭✭✭✭

    With respect to listening, you also might want to consider doing that. $9K. Raw. At a Mint auction. After 17,500 of the non-privys sell out by 12:01 p.m. on Friday, and dealers immediately start paying several hundred dollar premiums for them. You can't have it both ways. 17,500 are not going to be worth $4500+ while 230 with privys and signed numbered COAs are worth barely twice that. 🤣🤣🤣

    You are going to be wrong twice. The good news is my batting average will increase significantly. The 17,500 might not sell out, and won't be going for huge premiums regardless. OTOH, the 230 privys will be worth a very large multiple of what you think 3x-5x+.

    You did very well snagging 75 silver medals before they went Unavailable, and then messed up by immediately flipping without knowing the mintage yourself. So maybe look in the mirror before talking about batting averages. You had the same information I did, and made the same mistake I did. Except mine didn't cost me any money.

    I dont think so.

    2 PRIVY's in lot of 75 medals and the balance sold at 2x issue is not "messing up". 15k profit on a 7.8k investment. I'll "mess up" on that everyday of the week.

    You, on the other hand, have alot to say and none of it is useful.

    I will say and stand by my words - selling 5 figure modern coins x230 is going to be a feat in itself. The coin is not part of a series, it is a tribute "stand alone" coin. Crossing 10k on ANY of those coins except for #1 w/die is going to be difficult. If they do, I would say not above the 12k level.

    The v75 Gold sales of a super popular series were in the range of 10000-12000 raw on resale. This 2024 tribute coin is NOT to be compared to the v75 Privy Gold....its apples and oranges.

    Your estimates of 30k and up is moon money and will never happen.

    Silvers Privy with signed certificates (230)- we see that the few sales on ebay are between 6500-9500. That seems high and I think they will settle down into the 4000-6000 level.

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