@Danno44 said:
New mint press release. Yes there will be privy marks on gold however…
Did the Mint PR say 230 coins to be auctioned off??
That is, in fact, exactly what they said. As I speculated would be the case in an earlier post. Both the exact number and the method of distribution.
Good for them! These will go for mucho bucks, and, since the Mint is creating the value, it should be capturing it, rather than having it go to select large advance and and bulk purchasers, with a teeny tiny few dribbling out to the masses. This way, anyone who wants one and can afford one can buy one, direct from the source, with the proceeds going to the federal government.
This is not fair!!!! Auction for 230 coins!
At least they should have made that like the silver medal, 1794.
Now there is no way to get the gold privy coin
If the Privy Coins are to be sold separate from Non-Privy Coins, what will this do to the sales of the Non-Privys? Who is going to pay up $1K over spot price with no chance at lucking into a Privy?
@heavymetal said:
If the Privy Coins are to be sold separate from Non-Privy Coins, what will this do to the sales of the Non-Privys? Who is going to pay up $1K over spot price with no chance at lucking into a Privy?
@Danno44 said:
The mint released a video about the gold coin, at the end of the video they show actual coins and it appears there is a privy on them.
Yes I know the specs say no privy then why release the video?
@heavymetal said:
If the Privy Coins are to be sold separate from Non-Privy Coins, what will this do to the sales of the Non-Privys? Who is going to pay up $1K over spot price with no chance at lucking into a Privy?
I agree. It seems like a second place coin. i would rather have had them mix them in with all the others and charged $5000 a coin. These privy marked coins will sell for moon money at auction. Deep pockets with the family and friends network working will get most all of these.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
What's the consensus for the auction price, maybe >$15K.
At least double. Maybe even pushing >$50K.
Think about it -- The WWII 75th gold AGEs go for $20K+, and there are 1945 of them. And the silver medals are going for $4K+ with 1794 of them. What should something with 13% of the mintage, and 80x the precious metal content be worth?
@heavymetal said:
If the Privy Coins are to be sold separate from Non-Privy Coins, what will this do to the sales of the Non-Privys? Who is going to pay up $1K over spot price with no chance at lucking into a Privy?
I agree. It seems like a second place coin. i would rather have had them mix them in with all the others and charged $5000 a coin. These privy marked coins will sell for moon money at auction. Deep pockets with the family and friends network working will get most all of these.
That's fine. But all you're saying is that you would rather buy a lottery ticket than buy something for fair market value. People who can afford it are going to end up paying the market price anyway, so lotteries don't do them much good, since the odds of actually winning a lottery are slim to none.
Particularly, when, as in the case of the silver medals, so many winners ended up in the hands of bulk buyers. The thing is, with the silver medals, anyone who did just buy one from the Mint had their 2.4% shot at the issue price of the non-privy, $104. How many people would have still taken that shot if the price actually reflected the FMV of the privy coin, plus the FMV of the non-privy medal, plus the "fun" premium people like @jmlanzaf like to tout when talking about the joys of box breaks?
Who here would not have complained about the price if the Mint priced the silver medal lottery at a $300 value for the non-privy and $4500 for the privy, plus a "fun" premium, resulting in a lottery ticket price of (300x.976 + 4500x.024 = $400+) Would they have really sold 50K (or 75K) if the price was $500 each, with a 2.4% to get a $4500 score? No one?
Didn't think so! So all you are really advocating for is a lottery when the spoils go to dealers and, to the extent we are allowed to participate, us. And what they are doing is capturing 100% of the premium for themselves, and letting anyone who wants one have one, just like what happens now. Except on eBay, rather than directly from them.
At the end of the day, nothing is more fair than that. No one is shut out. No one can complain about how they are distributed. And all of the proceeds go where they belong -- the US Treasury, since it's the Mint creating the value. Not the lucky lottery winner, or the dealer who was allowed to obtain winners on a guaranteed basis through a bulk purchase program.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
What's the consensus for the auction price, maybe >$15K.
At least double. Maybe even pushing >$50K.
Think about it -- The WWII 75th gold AGEs go for $20K+, and there are 1945 of them. And the silver medals are going for $4K+ with 1794 of them. What should something with 13% of the mintage, and 80x the precious metal content be worth?
Wow, at that price if the head of the Mint or anyone else 'taking' 1 should get reported on a 1099 Misc Income.
@SilverPlatinum said: This is not fair!!!! Auction for 230 coins!
At least they should have made that like the silver medal, 1794.
Now there is no way to get the gold privy coin
Not fair???? 🤣🤣🤣
What's not fair about having the same opportunity anyone else has to buy one at a public auction? That's the way to get the gold privy coin. The one with the privy everyone thought detracted from the look of the coin/medal when they thought all of them had it. 🤣
This is by far the most fair way to distribute a prize the Mint is creating. The Mint is creating the value, and the market is establishing it through public auction, with the proceeds going back to the Mint, rather than to dealers and a few lucky members of the public.
If they did actually seed the 17,500 populations with these, you would have had a 1.3% chance to get one, with dealers getting a few guaranteed by virtue of being able to buy in quantities of 100, up to their allocation of 10-20%, or whatever it is nowadays.
After not getting one that way, you'd be right back to paying whatever the market will bear anyway. Or living without, since most of us will not be able to afford what will be the market price for a one ounce gold coin with a mintage of 230.
At least this way, there are no questions or games with respect to distribution. And they will all end up in the hands of those willing to pay the price, rather than those with an inside track, or those with incredible luck. Crying over the loss of a 1.3% shot really is wasted energy, given the 98.7% near certainty of striking out even if there was a lottery.
the usm knows the law. i'll let them explain any departures
United States coins shall have the inscription “In God We Trust”. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription “Liberty”. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions “United States of America” and “E Pluribus Unum” and a designation of the value of the coin.
@HATTRICK said:
Another Bull hyped rarity to separate fools from their money. In the future these will only be worth melt. 😬
Maybe. But "the future" could well be far, far, far beyond your lifetime. A certain "bull hyped rarity" released in 1995 sold for more than melt in 1995, and sells for far more than a melt value in 2024 that is itself 700%+ higher than in 1995. With a mintage over 130 times higher than 230.
I wouldn't go to the mat arguing that something the US Mint is only making 230 of will ever "only be worth melt." Maybe. If melt goes to $1,000,000+. But highly unlikely otherwise. No matter how high or low melt happens to go.
230 is rare. Artificial or otherwise. As long as at least 230 people in the world have any interest in collecting things produced by the US Mint.
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Instead of dealers making money on the lottery, looks like the auction house probably will be, making 10 or 20% per coin so they’re gonna be the winners. The mints gonna be the winner, whoever buy these probably not so much.
At $10,000 apiece and a $2000 premium times 230 will be $460,000 windfall for the auction house, or more.
Maybe the auction house should donate it to charity.
@wondercoin said:
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a brilliant move to spark interest in the hobby? 😀
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
On a somewhat similar tone the 2009 UHR may loose its uniqueness 2026 with the best of the mint release. 2021 Peace/Morgan was not as special after announced would be regular offering. The mint does have a history of watering down a good thing….2006 reverse proof silver eagles.
I am committed to the gold FH… just hope mint does not add to regular issuance along with buffalos, eagles or even relaunch 5,10,15 years from now.
NJCoin- no offense intended, but your word count on the subject of flowing hair silver and gold coins/medals is now competing with Leo Tolstoy’s greatest works! So, forgive me for not engaging with you as I am currently enjoying the very best that Austria has to offer. My roughly 100 word reply speaks for itself. Carry on.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
On a somewhat similar tone the 2009 UHR may loose its uniqueness 2026 with the best of the mint release. 2021 Peace/Morgan was not as special after announced would be regular offering. The mint does have a history of watering down a good thing….2006 reverse proof silver eagles.
I am committed to the gold FH… just hope mint does not add to regular issuance along with buffalos, eagles or even relaunch 5,10,15 years from now.
Really? How much are the 2021 Morgan/Peace Dollars down since the series was continued in 2023?
2024s are dogs because the Mint over reached with its pricing and mintages, but the 2021s were home runs, and are doing just fine to this day. No less special just because the Mint increased mintages, and prices, when continuing to make them in subsequent years.
@wondercoin said:
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a negatively lbrilliant move to spark interest incirc the hobby? 😀
ABPP is no more negatively impacted than the average collector who won't be able to acquire this coin at an affordable price.
@goldbuffalo said:
Instead of dealers making money on the lottery, looks like the auction house probably will be, making 10 or 20% per coin so they’re gonna be the winners. The mints gonna be the winner, whoever buy these probably not so much.
At $10,000 apiece and a $2000 premium times 230 will be $460,000 windfall for the auction house, or more.
Maybe the auction house should donate it to charity.
If there is a fee of course.
🤣🤣🤣
230 one ounce gold coins will sell for FAR FAR FAR in excess of $10,000 each. 17,500 of them will be selling for close to $4K each!!!!
Assuming, of course, that they can actually move that many at that price. I have already expressed skepticism about that. But, even if they don't sell 17,500 at $3,700+, 230 special ones will surely sell for a lot more than $10K each.
Also, this is the US government negotiating a deal with an auction house. You can rest assured the house's take will be FAR FAR FAR less than 10%, given this is going to be 230 lot consignment, and the gross is going to be FAR FAR FAR higher than $2,300,000. Multiply that number by at least 3-5x, if not more.
@wondercoin said:
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a negatively lbrilliant move to spark interest incirc the hobby? 😀
ABPP is no more negatively impacted than the average collector who won't be able to acquire this coin at an affordable price.
Yes. This is EXACTLY my point.
Dealers not getting a guaranteed allocation, at a fraction of true market value, with a purchase of 100 regular coins will be the ones negatively impacted by an auction open to all, with the price set by the market, with the value going to the US Treasury rather than to lucky lottery winners, with dealers being guaranteed a number of winners.
Most of the rest of us are not impacted at all, since a 98.7% chance of not pulling a winner is not materially different than 100%.
@wondercoin said:
NJCoin- no offense intended, but your word count on the subject of flowing hair silver and gold coins/medals is now competing with Leo Tolstoy’s greatest works! So, forgive me for not engaging with you as I am currently enjoying the very best that Austria has to offer. My roughly 100 word reply speaks for itself. Carry on.
Wondercoin.
I think I get it. You, as a significant professional in the space, have no advantage over anyone else, and no way to make money off it, so the offering is a crime against humanity. I think I got it.
@wondercoin said:
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a negatively lbrilliant move to spark interest incirc the hobby? 😀
ABPP is no more negatively impacted than the average collector who won't be able to acquire this coin at an affordable price.
Yes. This is EXACTLY my point.
Dealers not getting a guaranteed allocation, at a fraction of true market value, with a purchase of 100 regular coins will be the ones negatively impacted by an auction open to all, with the price set by the market, with the value going to the US Treasury rather than to lucky lottery winners, with dealers being guaranteed a number of winners.
Most of the rest of us are not impacted at all, since a 98.7% chance of not pulling a winner is not materially different than 100%.
How is that exactly your point when you said "only" ABPP...
[Edited to add: i do agree with you that there is nothing wrong with this privy and auction. I've long suggested that they should do all releases by auction. ]
@wondercoin said:
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a negatively lbrilliant move to spark interest incirc the hobby? 😀
ABPP is no more negatively impacted than the average collector who won't be able to acquire this coin at an affordable price.
Yes. This is EXACTLY my point.
Dealers not getting a guaranteed allocation, at a fraction of true market value, with a purchase of 100 regular coins will be the ones negatively impacted by an auction open to all, with the price set by the market, with the value going to the US Treasury rather than to lucky lottery winners, with dealers being guaranteed a number of winners.
Most of the rest of us are not impacted at all, since a 98.7% chance of not pulling a winner is not materially different than 100%.
How is that exactly your point when you said "only" ABPP...
Edit -- you're right! My point was EXACTLY the opposite! ABPP ARE absolutely more negatively impacted than everyone else.
Because no one else had a guaranteed allocation the first time around. Other, I guess, than other bulk buyers who purchased in quantities of 100+, but not in advance.
But we don't have numbers on them yet. And, to your earlier posts regarding the missing 25K, there is at least a possibility that those sales don't exist.
But we know for a fact that ABPP hoovered up almost 10K of the silver medals, in 100 count boxes that each contained 2 or 3 privys, guaranteed. THAT was fair, because you and I had the same 2.3% shot with our purchase limit of 1 before they went Unavailable?
But putting special coins up for auction, where anyone able and willing to pay has the exact same shot at them, with all excess profit being returned to the Treasury, is somehow something other than fair? In fact, it's a crime? 🤣
"Only" to dealers who otherwise had a guaranteed allocation at a far below market price. Which does not include any retail buyers.
My point now is that this is going to be far beyond the means of just about everyone. Running a so-called lottery with 230 winners, with 23-46 of them going to dealers, guaranteed, with the rest being sprinkled randomly among us, would not meaningfully change anyone's odds, other than for those dealers.
I like it better this way. No reason for the Mint to transfer excess profits from the Treasury to a few large dealers, and a few lucky members of the public.
Most of us are never going to own this coin regardless. It's not a crime, and does not change the dynamics of the hobby. It just gives people of means another something special to add to their collections. The rest of just can just carry on with our lives. Including the dealers who will not be receiving yet another windfall from the Mint.
@MsMorrisine said:
the usm knows the law. i'll let them explain any departures
United States coins shall have the inscription “In God We Trust”. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription “Liberty”. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions “United States of America” and “E Pluribus Unum” and a designation of the value of the coin.
I am NOT a lawyer, but I THINK this explains the Secretary's authority regarding the departure.
@Bullsitter said:
The Mint should sell them on Ebay starting at $0.99.
That is pretty much exactly what they are going to do. No, Stack's isn't eBay, because you have to register, be approved to bid, etc. And it is more organized, with no shill bidding, sniping, BS returns, etc.
But, there are no reserves, the auction is very well publicized to anyone who might have any interest, and it's the most effective, efficient way for the Mint to move several hundred lots in one fell swoop and maximize its return.
It was MsMorrisine pointing out the crime against humanity. Get your story straight. 😝
Wondercoin.
He doesn't care if it's right as long as the word count is high enough. 🤪
Why can't I have both? 😀
Because this time I'm right.
You don't get to disavow a statement that you directly quote in a post, followed by "You are absolutely correct." Well, maybe with you, but not with me.
@HATTRICK said:
Another Bull hyped rarity to separate fools from their money. In the future these will only be worth melt. 😬
Maybe. But "the future" could well be far, far, far beyond your lifetime. A certain "bull hyped rarity" released in 1995 sold for more than melt in 1995, and sells for far more than a melt value in 2024 that is itself 700%+ higher than in 1995. With a mintage over 130 times higher than 230.
I wouldn't go to the mat arguing that something the US Mint is only making 230 of will ever "only be worth melt." Maybe. If melt goes to $1,000,000+. But highly unlikely otherwise. No matter how high or low melt happens to go.
230 is rare. Artificial or otherwise. As long as at least 230 people in the world have any interest in collecting things produced by the US Mint.
Yes for now, however the majority of sales are amount dealers who have been involved for decades. Within one generation there will be a fraction of interested buyers to soak up supply of several generations of collecters. The writing is on the wall and time is shorter than you think.
Just my 50 cents
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
On a somewhat similar tone the 2009 UHR may loose its uniqueness 2026 with the best of the mint release. 2021 Peace/Morgan was not as special after announced would be regular offering. The mint does have a history of watering down a good thing….2006 reverse proof silver eagles.
I am committed to the gold FH… just hope mint does not add to regular issuance along with buffalos, eagles or even relaunch 5,10,15 years from now.
Really? How much are the 2021 Morgan/Peace Dollars down since the series was continued in 2023?
2024s are dogs because the Mint over reached with its pricing and mintages, but the 2021s were home runs, and are doing just fine to this day. No less special just because the Mint increased mintages, and prices, when continuing to make them in subsequent years.
This is just the same useless noise kicked up on silver FH. Slow down and actually read comments before replying. My comment was in regards to uniqueness not value. Did I discuss uniqueness? Yes. Did I discuss value? No! Can you connect the dots? Do I need to draw another diagram?
Just like with your above comment you are lost and disconnected. Really thought with your short fade out period may be sitting out and learning from your prior consistent misunderstandings. A broken clock is correct at least twice a day. You could not even beat a broken clock at being correct. It is almost comical.
Not sure what ouija board was used to conjure up your spirit but there are professional insight opinions posted here you should consider learning from before blowing up serious discussions. Only person you entertain is yourself. Your opinions will continue to be dismissed.
@HATTRICK said:
Another Bull hyped rarity to separate fools from their money. In the future these will only be worth melt. 😬
Maybe. But "the future" could well be far, far, far beyond your lifetime. A certain "bull hyped rarity" released in 1995 sold for more than melt in 1995, and sells for far more than a melt value in 2024 that is itself 700%+ higher than in 1995. With a mintage over 130 times higher than 230.
I wouldn't go to the mat arguing that something the US Mint is only making 230 of will ever "only be worth melt." Maybe. If melt goes to $1,000,000+. But highly unlikely otherwise. No matter how high or low melt happens to go.
230 is rare. Artificial or otherwise. As long as at least 230 people in the world have any interest in collecting things produced by the US Mint.
Yes for now, however the majority of sales are amount dealers who have been involved for decades. Within one generation there will be a fraction of interested buyers to soak up supply of several generations of collecters. The writing is on the wall and time is shorter than you think.
Just my 50 cents
Again, maybe. But we are already one generation removed from 1995, the Mint is still cranking out artificial rarities, people are still gobbling them up, and they still sell for premiums far in excess of issue price.
So, exactly where is the wall and the writing? All I see is someone not buying in. You are surely not alone, but there are clearly plenty of folks who do buy in. Which is why plenty of things the Mint has sold in very limited quantities continue to sell, decades after release, for significant premiums.
For every gold spouse or commemorative coin with no demand, there is a 1995-W Proof ASE or a 2019-W Enhanced RP ASE that won't be selling for melt for many generations to come.
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
On a somewhat similar tone the 2009 UHR may loose its uniqueness 2026 with the best of the mint release. 2021 Peace/Morgan was not as special after announced would be regular offering. The mint does have a history of watering down a good thing….2006 reverse proof silver eagles.
I am committed to the gold FH… just hope mint does not add to regular issuance along with buffalos, eagles or even relaunch 5,10,15 years from now.
Really? How much are the 2021 Morgan/Peace Dollars down since the series was continued in 2023?
2024s are dogs because the Mint over reached with its pricing and mintages, but the 2021s were home runs, and are doing just fine to this day. No less special just because the Mint increased mintages, and prices, when continuing to make them in subsequent years.
This is just the same useless noise kicked up on silver FH. Slow down and actually read comments before replying. My comment was in regards to uniqueness not value. Did I discuss uniqueness? Yes. Did I discuss value? No! Can you connect the dots? Do I need to draw another diagram?
Just like with your above comment you are lost and disconnected. Really thought with your short fade out period may be sitting out and learning from your prior consistent misunderstandings. It is almost comical.
Not sure what ouija board was used to conjure up your spirit but there are professional insight opinions posted here you should consider learning from before blowing up serious discussions. Only person you entertain is yourself. Your opinions will continue to be dismissed.
Dismiss all you want. Who cares about "uniqueness" other than to the extent it impacts value? Besides you?
So, yeah, I took the liberty of connecting dots. If the dots were not there, my bad, and I'm sorry. So now, what is the point of talking about "uniqueness," given that most of what we collect is not unique, but is part of a continuing series?
The "ouija board" was nothing more than something grabbing my fancy. I don't take my marching orders from you, @WQuarterFreddie, or anyone else.
I sit out when I have no interest, and post when I do. It's not complicated. As before, feel free to put me on Ignore, but don't waste your time lecturing me.
For every gold spouse or commemorative coin with no demand, there is a 1995-W Proof ASE or a 2019-W Enhanced RP ASE that won't be selling for melt for many generations to come.
The First Spouse gold program was a total disaster.
I remember the loving term for them back then was "First Hag."
Comments
Finally, some clarity. So no gold coins next week will have the privy.
No all will be auctioned.
That is, in fact, exactly what they said. As I speculated would be the case in an earlier post. Both the exact number and the method of distribution.
Good for them! These will go for mucho bucks, and, since the Mint is creating the value, it should be capturing it, rather than having it go to select large advance and and bulk purchasers, with a teeny tiny few dribbling out to the masses. This way, anyone who wants one and can afford one can buy one, direct from the source, with the proceeds going to the federal government.
At least they should have made that like the silver medal, 1794.
Now there is no way to get the gold privy coin
If the Privy Coins are to be sold separate from Non-Privy Coins, what will this do to the sales of the Non-Privys? Who is going to pay up $1K over spot price with no chance at lucking into a Privy?
Good point.
The edge letting > @Goldbully said:
Actual images and statement appear to reflect the original drawings without In God We Trust which some believe is mandated.
Glad to see privy not offered as lottery. Will aid somewhat in obtaining one once released.
The money shot from the video........looks beautiful.
Honestly one of the best in recent times. They look great
What's the consensus for the auction price, maybe >$15K.
I agree. It seems like a second place coin. i would rather have had them mix them in with all the others and charged $5000 a coin. These privy marked coins will sell for moon money at auction. Deep pockets with the family and friends network working will get most all of these.
At least double. Maybe even pushing >$50K.
Think about it -- The WWII 75th gold AGEs go for $20K+, and there are 1945 of them. And the silver medals are going for $4K+ with 1794 of them. What should something with 13% of the mintage, and 80x the precious metal content be worth?
That's fine. But all you're saying is that you would rather buy a lottery ticket than buy something for fair market value. People who can afford it are going to end up paying the market price anyway, so lotteries don't do them much good, since the odds of actually winning a lottery are slim to none.
Particularly, when, as in the case of the silver medals, so many winners ended up in the hands of bulk buyers. The thing is, with the silver medals, anyone who did just buy one from the Mint had their 2.4% shot at the issue price of the non-privy, $104. How many people would have still taken that shot if the price actually reflected the FMV of the privy coin, plus the FMV of the non-privy medal, plus the "fun" premium people like @jmlanzaf like to tout when talking about the joys of box breaks?
Who here would not have complained about the price if the Mint priced the silver medal lottery at a $300 value for the non-privy and $4500 for the privy, plus a "fun" premium, resulting in a lottery ticket price of (300x.976 + 4500x.024 = $400+) Would they have really sold 50K (or 75K) if the price was $500 each, with a 2.4% to get a $4500 score? No one?
Didn't think so! So all you are really advocating for is a lottery when the spoils go to dealers and, to the extent we are allowed to participate, us. And what they are doing is capturing 100% of the premium for themselves, and letting anyone who wants one have one, just like what happens now. Except on eBay, rather than directly from them.
At the end of the day, nothing is more fair than that. No one is shut out. No one can complain about how they are distributed. And all of the proceeds go where they belong -- the US Treasury, since it's the Mint creating the value. Not the lucky lottery winner, or the dealer who was allowed to obtain winners on a guaranteed basis through a bulk purchase program.
Wow, at that price if the head of the Mint or anyone else 'taking' 1 should get reported on a 1099 Misc Income.
Not fair???? 🤣🤣🤣
What's not fair about having the same opportunity anyone else has to buy one at a public auction? That's the way to get the gold privy coin. The one with the privy everyone thought detracted from the look of the coin/medal when they thought all of them had it. 🤣
This is by far the most fair way to distribute a prize the Mint is creating. The Mint is creating the value, and the market is establishing it through public auction, with the proceeds going back to the Mint, rather than to dealers and a few lucky members of the public.
If they did actually seed the 17,500 populations with these, you would have had a 1.3% chance to get one, with dealers getting a few guaranteed by virtue of being able to buy in quantities of 100, up to their allocation of 10-20%, or whatever it is nowadays.
After not getting one that way, you'd be right back to paying whatever the market will bear anyway. Or living without, since most of us will not be able to afford what will be the market price for a one ounce gold coin with a mintage of 230.
At least this way, there are no questions or games with respect to distribution. And they will all end up in the hands of those willing to pay the price, rather than those with an inside track, or those with incredible luck. Crying over the loss of a 1.3% shot really is wasted energy, given the 98.7% near certainty of striking out even if there was a lottery.
if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime
From Temu
Mr_Spud
the usm knows the law. i'll let them explain any departures
How so? Because it's a certainty that they will, by a lot, due to the mintage alone.
Another Bull hyped rarity to separate fools from their money. In the future these will only be worth melt. 😬
.
Maybe. But "the future" could well be far, far, far beyond your lifetime. A certain "bull hyped rarity" released in 1995 sold for more than melt in 1995, and sells for far more than a melt value in 2024 that is itself 700%+ higher than in 1995. With a mintage over 130 times higher than 230.
I wouldn't go to the mat arguing that something the US Mint is only making 230 of will ever "only be worth melt." Maybe. If melt goes to $1,000,000+. But highly unlikely otherwise. No matter how high or low melt happens to go.
230 is rare. Artificial or otherwise. As long as at least 230 people in the world have any interest in collecting things produced by the US Mint.
Last time it was Stack's. Unless and until they announce otherwise, that would be the safe bet.
‘’if the privy auctions surpass the v75 age, it will be a crime’’
You are absolutely correct. But, the mint doesn’t care about dedicated collectors to a series - even a series that has run nearly 40 years like the Proof Gold Eagles. They have proven that - yes?
They will come up with this “230” coin “instant rarity” without giving a darn to the ramifications of prior actions. And then, down the road, they may well create a 100 coin rarity blowing these coins out of the water. Followed by a 50 coin ultra rarity and then one day a single Unique coin mega rarity that fetches millions of dollars out of the box and then trades and retrades until it catches up to the value of the 1933 $20 Saint! And then the Mint can claim success to its modern programs!!
Just my 2 cents!
Wondercoin.
Instead of dealers making money on the lottery, looks like the auction house probably will be, making 10 or 20% per coin so they’re gonna be the winners. The mints gonna be the winner, whoever buy these probably not so much.
At $10,000 apiece and a $2000 premium times 230 will be $460,000 windfall for the auction house, or more.
Maybe the auction house should donate it to charity.
If there is a fee of course.
You're losing me. They are making 17,500 for the masses who just want to pay ordinary outrageous premiums for modern issues. And then another 230, specially curated for those who want nothing but the most exclusive, very best. And, allowing the market to set the price, and then making them available to anyone willing and able to pay that price.
It's got nothing to do with "dedicated collectors to a series," and has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of us who are priced out. The only people negatively impacted are those select members of the ABPP club, who won't get a guaranteed allocation, far below market, as they did with the silver medal privys.
You're not in that group, are you? If not, why do you care? This is a niche product for a very niche market. Not part of any series. A one-off to commemorate the 230th anniversary of the first silver dollar.
None of us has to be involved, and it does not impact, one way or the other, anything that we do choose to collect. There are 3 other similar, much lower priced products for those who want to be part of the action, but cannot afford this.
How does the making of a 230 count special edition impact anyone who cannot afford it? And how would any of them be any better off if it was not made in the first place? Because if everyone can't have something, no one should?
Unless they are distributed in a lottery at a fraction of ultimate market value, with a guaranteed allocation to dealers? In which case it's a brilliant move to spark interest in the hobby? 😀
How does auction work? > @wondercoin said:
On a somewhat similar tone the 2009 UHR may loose its uniqueness 2026 with the best of the mint release. 2021 Peace/Morgan was not as special after announced would be regular offering. The mint does have a history of watering down a good thing….2006 reverse proof silver eagles.
I am committed to the gold FH… just hope mint does not add to regular issuance along with buffalos, eagles or even relaunch 5,10,15 years from now.
Those are absolutely beautiful. Seriously tempted to buy a 70.
NJCoin- no offense intended, but your word count on the subject of flowing hair silver and gold coins/medals is now competing with Leo Tolstoy’s greatest works! So, forgive me for not engaging with you as I am currently enjoying the very best that Austria has to offer. My roughly 100 word reply speaks for itself. Carry on.
Wondercoin.
Really? How much are the 2021 Morgan/Peace Dollars down since the series was continued in 2023?
2024s are dogs because the Mint over reached with its pricing and mintages, but the 2021s were home runs, and are doing just fine to this day. No less special just because the Mint increased mintages, and prices, when continuing to make them in subsequent years.
ABPP is no more negatively impacted than the average collector who won't be able to acquire this coin at an affordable price.
🤣🤣🤣
230 one ounce gold coins will sell for FAR FAR FAR in excess of $10,000 each. 17,500 of them will be selling for close to $4K each!!!!
Assuming, of course, that they can actually move that many at that price. I have already expressed skepticism about that. But, even if they don't sell 17,500 at $3,700+, 230 special ones will surely sell for a lot more than $10K each.
Also, this is the US government negotiating a deal with an auction house. You can rest assured the house's take will be FAR FAR FAR less than 10%, given this is going to be 230 lot consignment, and the gross is going to be FAR FAR FAR higher than $2,300,000. Multiply that number by at least 3-5x, if not more.
The Mint should sell them on Ebay starting at $0.99.
Yes. This is EXACTLY my point.
Dealers not getting a guaranteed allocation, at a fraction of true market value, with a purchase of 100 regular coins will be the ones negatively impacted by an auction open to all, with the price set by the market, with the value going to the US Treasury rather than to lucky lottery winners, with dealers being guaranteed a number of winners.
Most of the rest of us are not impacted at all, since a 98.7% chance of not pulling a winner is not materially different than 100%.
I think I get it. You, as a significant professional in the space, have no advantage over anyone else, and no way to make money off it, so the offering is a crime against humanity. I think I got it.
How is that exactly your point when you said "only" ABPP...
[Edited to add: i do agree with you that there is nothing wrong with this privy and auction. I've long suggested that they should do all releases by auction. ]
Edit -- you're right! My point was EXACTLY the opposite! ABPP ARE absolutely more negatively impacted than everyone else.
Because no one else had a guaranteed allocation the first time around. Other, I guess, than other bulk buyers who purchased in quantities of 100+, but not in advance.
But we don't have numbers on them yet. And, to your earlier posts regarding the missing 25K, there is at least a possibility that those sales don't exist.
But we know for a fact that ABPP hoovered up almost 10K of the silver medals, in 100 count boxes that each contained 2 or 3 privys, guaranteed. THAT was fair, because you and I had the same 2.3% shot with our purchase limit of 1 before they went Unavailable?
But putting special coins up for auction, where anyone able and willing to pay has the exact same shot at them, with all excess profit being returned to the Treasury, is somehow something other than fair? In fact, it's a crime? 🤣
"Only" to dealers who otherwise had a guaranteed allocation at a far below market price. Which does not include any retail buyers.
My point now is that this is going to be far beyond the means of just about everyone. Running a so-called lottery with 230 winners, with 23-46 of them going to dealers, guaranteed, with the rest being sprinkled randomly among us, would not meaningfully change anyone's odds, other than for those dealers.
I like it better this way. No reason for the Mint to transfer excess profits from the Treasury to a few large dealers, and a few lucky members of the public.
Most of us are never going to own this coin regardless. It's not a crime, and does not change the dynamics of the hobby. It just gives people of means another something special to add to their collections. The rest of just can just carry on with our lives. Including the dealers who will not be receiving yet another windfall from the Mint.
I am NOT a lawyer, but I THINK this explains the Secretary's authority regarding the departure.
31 U.S.C. § 5112(i)(4)(C):
Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112
MsMorrisine-
It was MsMorrisine pointing out the crime against humanity. Get your story straight. 😝
Wondercoin.
That is pretty much exactly what they are going to do. No, Stack's isn't eBay, because you have to register, be approved to bid, etc. And it is more organized, with no shill bidding, sniping, BS returns, etc.
But, there are no reserves, the auction is very well publicized to anyone who might have any interest, and it's the most effective, efficient way for the Mint to move several hundred lots in one fell swoop and maximize its return.
Really?
He doesn't care if it's right as long as the word count is high enough. 🤪
Why can't I have both? 😀
Because this time I'm right.
You don't get to disavow a statement that you directly quote in a post, followed by "You are absolutely correct." Well, maybe with you, but not with me.
Yes for now, however the majority of sales are amount dealers who have been involved for decades. Within one generation there will be a fraction of interested buyers to soak up supply of several generations of collecters. The writing is on the wall and time is shorter than you think.
Just my 50 cents
This is just the same useless noise kicked up on silver FH. Slow down and actually read comments before replying. My comment was in regards to uniqueness not value. Did I discuss uniqueness? Yes. Did I discuss value? No! Can you connect the dots? Do I need to draw another diagram?
Just like with your above comment you are lost and disconnected. Really thought with your short fade out period may be sitting out and learning from your prior consistent misunderstandings. A broken clock is correct at least twice a day. You could not even beat a broken clock at being correct. It is almost comical.
Not sure what ouija board was used to conjure up your spirit but there are professional insight opinions posted here you should consider learning from before blowing up serious discussions. Only person you entertain is yourself. Your opinions will continue to be dismissed.
Again, maybe. But we are already one generation removed from 1995, the Mint is still cranking out artificial rarities, people are still gobbling them up, and they still sell for premiums far in excess of issue price.
So, exactly where is the wall and the writing? All I see is someone not buying in. You are surely not alone, but there are clearly plenty of folks who do buy in. Which is why plenty of things the Mint has sold in very limited quantities continue to sell, decades after release, for significant premiums.
For every gold spouse or commemorative coin with no demand, there is a 1995-W Proof ASE or a 2019-W Enhanced RP ASE that won't be selling for melt for many generations to come.
Dismiss all you want. Who cares about "uniqueness" other than to the extent it impacts value? Besides you?
So, yeah, I took the liberty of connecting dots. If the dots were not there, my bad, and I'm sorry. So now, what is the point of talking about "uniqueness," given that most of what we collect is not unique, but is part of a continuing series?
The "ouija board" was nothing more than something grabbing my fancy. I don't take my marching orders from you, @WQuarterFreddie, or anyone else.
I sit out when I have no interest, and post when I do. It's not complicated. As before, feel free to put me on Ignore, but don't waste your time lecturing me.
The First Spouse gold program was a total disaster.
I remember the loving term for them back then was "First Hag."
it's ongoing! there is no end for the prez bucks and first spouse programs
Now that's a deep cameo for sure!