@coiner said:
lets now see what the USM does with the GOLD version.
As it stands now it doesnt look like any special privy or anything else for that matter - other than 17,500 mintage.
However, if you think about it, its a ~$63,000,000 offering (17,500 x ~3600) and this Silver Medal offering was only $7,800,000 total for them. They would be stupid NOT to do something special, if they do - announced within the next week to two weeks.
The privy wasnt announced for the silver until about 2-3 weeks before the release date, if we see any special news for the GOLD version - it would come soon.
Looks like the Mint is planning some sort of auction.
Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps something like the 'AE @ D&D' auction (e.g., 1st struck, 2nd struck, etc.)???
That's EXACTLY what it sounds like, and is the "something special" they are doing with them. No privy giveaway for the dealers with these. Those "special" coins will sell at a huge premium, with the Mint capturing all of it for themselves, less what they give to Stack's for hosting and promoting the auction.
Probably special signed COAs if I had to guess. Then you can run over to have it on-site graded and the put it up on ebay for $25k.
@OLC said:
So they don't count dealer sales anymore.
They'll count it somewhere. Just not on that report.
So the report is completely worthless and inaccurate.
Well, yeah. They sold out at 12:02 p.m. on 10/15, with tiny numbers popping up, and immediately selling out, most mornings at 7:30 a.m.
Do you need an official Mint sales report to know that ~75K have been sold? Does this report honestly make you think they held back 34K that are going to be made available at some point in the future?
If not, yes, the report is completely worthless and inaccurate. I happen to think it is accurate as far as it goes, which is to reflect retail sales via web and phone, but not any sales via other channels (dealers, and maybe Mint retail sales locations -- Philly, Denver and DC).
I wouldn't bet a lot of money that all 75,000 have been made or sold. They don't always make maximum mintage. They don't always go to backorder status when they sell out of what had been made. Sometimes they will make more and sometimes they don't. Until they say that 75,000 ish of these have been sold on that sales report It is possible that at any time 34,000 more of these may show up on their website. I've seen it happen before with other items. Even later in the year than this.
I would very happily take the other side of that bet. 75K-ish have indeed been sold, as indicated by the fact that you cannot buy one, right now, from the Mint, either on back order or for immediate delivery.
I do, however, have a feeling they might have held a few hundred back for inclusion in the gold auction we all just heard about. But that's it. A few hundred, not 34,000.
Anyone dreaming that nearly half of an announced maximum mintage is going to magically appear for sale, after the item went Unavailable, simply because they are not appearing on a sales report is going to be very disappointed when they magically appear, not on the website for sale, but on a subsequent sales report.
@coiner said:
lets now see what the USM does with the GOLD version.
As it stands now it doesnt look like any special privy or anything else for that matter - other than 17,500 mintage.
However, if you think about it, its a ~$63,000,000 offering (17,500 x ~3600) and this Silver Medal offering was only $7,800,000 total for them. They would be stupid NOT to do something special, if they do - announced within the next week to two weeks.
The privy wasnt announced for the silver until about 2-3 weeks before the release date, if we see any special news for the GOLD version - it would come soon.
Looks like the Mint is planning some sort of auction.
Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps something like the 'AE @ D&D' auction (e.g., 1st struck, 2nd struck, etc.)???
That's EXACTLY what it sounds like, and is the "something special" they are doing with them. No privy giveaway for the dealers with these. Those "special" coins will sell at a huge premium, with the Mint capturing all of it for themselves, less what they give to Stack's for hosting and promoting the auction.
Probably special signed COAs if I had to guess. Then you can run over to have it on-site graded and the put it up on ebay for $25k.
Nah. I agree with @MetroD on this. If it was just signed COAs, they would seed them like they did with the silvers.
To go to the expense of an auction, it will involve slabbed examples with attribution, such as "X of Y." Likely also including a signed COA. Just like what they did with the Dawn and Dusk when they changed the Eagles a few years ago.
@fathom said:
In the normal course of business, a supplier does not keep an impending run of product or allocation a secret from a distributor.
If the big sellers are offering to buy the release at $175 then they are assuming no more will be released or available, no?
Not necessarily. If there is no schedule for the others, they need to move them while they can. They also often presell some so they may just be filling orders.
Nice medal, but too bad it wasn't made as a $1 coin like the real one.
Looks like the Mint is planning to do the same thing with the 2026 silver "items"; making them medals instead of coins. In my opinion if the Mint does so then its a big mistake.
@coiner said:
lets now see what the USM does with the GOLD version.
As it stands now it doesnt look like any special privy or anything else for that matter - other than 17,500 mintage.
However, if you think about it, its a ~$63,000,000 offering (17,500 x ~3600) and this Silver Medal offering was only $7,800,000 total for them. They would be stupid NOT to do something special, if they do - announced within the next week to two weeks.
The privy wasnt announced for the silver until about 2-3 weeks before the release date, if we see any special news for the GOLD version - it would come soon.
Looks like the Mint is planning some sort of auction.
@mlittle said:
Nice medal, but too bad it wasn't made as a $1 coin like the real one.
Looks like the Mint is planning to do the same thing with the 2026 silver "items"; making them medals instead of coins. In my opinion if the Mint does so then its a big mistake.
Not their choice. For whatever reason, they have Congressional authorization to do whatever they want with silver medals, but have to go back to Congress to get specific authorization for any coin they want to make.
This is the most expeditious way to go about business. And, as proven with this medal, all the complaining about medal vs. coin is just pointless hand wringing. Having the Flowing Hair be a medal instead of coin cost them NOTHING, even if some individuals on this very forum took a pass simply because it is a medal.
Their loss, since the people who have them seem to like them, some won a lucrative lottery, and, to date, they are holding their value. And, whatever happens to their value going forward will not be dictated by medal vs. coin.
@coiner said:
lets now see what the USM does with the GOLD version.
As it stands now it doesnt look like any special privy or anything else for that matter - other than 17,500 mintage.
However, if you think about it, its a ~$63,000,000 offering (17,500 x ~3600) and this Silver Medal offering was only $7,800,000 total for them. They would be stupid NOT to do something special, if they do - announced within the next week to two weeks.
The privy wasnt announced for the silver until about 2-3 weeks before the release date, if we see any special news for the GOLD version - it would come soon.
Looks like the Mint is planning some sort of auction.
@coiner said:
I see it now. I guess we will anxiously await details.
Anyway, 75 coins arrived. Broken up in shipment of 50 and of 25. Two separate shipments.
And the result........... 2 Privys (w/o signed cert). Both in the box of 50. No Privys in the box of 25.
Congratulations on getting the order in, and on getting the privys. Very glad they didn't hose you when they broke open the original box and broke up your order. Nice score!!
@mlittle said:
Nice medal, but too bad it wasn't made as a $1 coin like the real one.
Looks like the Mint is planning to do the same thing with the 2026 silver "items"; making them medals instead of coins. In my opinion if the Mint does so then its a big mistake.
Not their choice. For whatever reason, they have Congressional authorization to do whatever they want with silver medals, but have to go back to Congress to get specific authorization for any coin they want to make.
This is the most expeditious way to go about business. And, as proven with this medal, all the complaining about medal vs. coin is just pointless hand wringing. Having the Flowing Hair be a medal instead of coin cost them NOTHING, even if some individuals on this very forum took a pass simply because it is a medal.
Their loss, since the people who have them seem to like them, some won a lucrative lottery, and, to date, they are holding their value. And, whatever happens to their value going forward will not be dictated by medal vs. coin.
The Mint should seek the authorization from Congress for silver coins in 2026, and into the future. Congress should act on its own. I'm going to write my Congressman about this issue; in fact, all members of this forum, who would like to see silver coins, should write their Congresspersons.
@mlittle said:
Nice medal, but too bad it wasn't made as a $1 coin like the real one.
Looks like the Mint is planning to do the same thing with the 2026 silver "items"; making them medals instead of coins. In my opinion if the Mint does so then its a big mistake.
Not their choice. For whatever reason, they have Congressional authorization to do whatever they want with silver medals, but have to go back to Congress to get specific authorization for any coin they want to make.
This is the most expeditious way to go about business. And, as proven with this medal, all the complaining about medal vs. coin is just pointless hand wringing. Having the Flowing Hair be a medal instead of coin cost them NOTHING, even if some individuals on this very forum took a pass simply because it is a medal.
Their loss, since the people who have them seem to like them, some won a lucrative lottery, and, to date, they are holding their value. And, whatever happens to their value going forward will not be dictated by medal vs. coin.
The Mint should seek the authorization from Congress for silver coins in 2026, and into the future. Congress should act on its own. I'm going to write my Congressman about this issue; in fact, all members of this forum, who would like to see silver coins, should write their Congresspersons.
Totally agree. I don't understand the politics behind it, but, if the Mint has the authority to create non circulating numismatic gold coins, there is no reason silver rounds should not also be monetized without specific Congressional approval each time.
Costs the Mint whatever from people who just won't touch medals, with no corresponding benefit to anyone.
@mlittle said:
The Mint should seek the authorization from Congress for silver coins in 2026, and into the future. Congress should act on its own. I'm going to write my Congressman about this issue; in fact, all members of this forum, who would like to see silver coins, should write their Congresspersons.
Once you've written it, please post the body of your letter so it can be used as a template.
a silver dime melts for $2.45 but is only 10 cents face
first problem, silver can move up in value and cause hoarding without melting
second, even if the price of silver remains the same, a silver dime would need to be less that 10/245ths the weight of previous years' dimes. that's 0.0408
never happen
gold standards are similarly impossible due to the changing price of gold, plus the added disadvantage that to grow money supply more gold would need to be dug or the price of gold increased artificially.
485 new non-privy graded.....that's a lot for one day.
There are going to be a lot of PCGS graded FH medals showing up on eBay it appears.
The First Strike MS69 graded has improved to 53.6% down from 61.4%.
8 new privy graded.
Remember watching the big boys holding thousands of mint products and creating artificial demand? Not trying to be dramatic here just offering another possibility.
They’ll sell like hotcakes to the crowd that watches those home shopping channels. Once the barkers start saying how incredibly rare and valuable those 69’s are, they’ll fly off the shelves. I watched one guy selling silver bars (basic ones) for approximately $75 each a few years ago when silver was at $18 an ounce or so. He kept telling everyone how the opportunity to own PURE, SOLID 99.999% silver didn’t happen often and that they needed to get their orders in quickly before they sold out. The folks calling in were beyond thrilled to score such an amazing RARE commodity …even though you could buy the exact same thing on eBay for $25 with free shipping. 😉
Edited to Add: Just noticed the seller is offering two different labels. My results mixed the versions. But, that was all that I could find. Perhaps someone with better eBay skills can find the two sales with the specific label you asked about.
Thanks @MetroD ......those are some big bucks for an ounce of silver and a signed COA.
Don’t see anywhere where it says the COA is signed. The # is there to mislead people as you believed.
There is no such #695 or # 833 out of only 230. 🤔🤔🤔
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Certified 70 medals with Privy and signed COA are listing for
$15,000 to $ 19,999.
Unbelievable for something that will sometime in the future only be worth melt. 😬
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
Certified 70 medals with Privy and signed COA are listing for
$15,000 to $ 19,999.
Unbelievable for something that will sometime in the future only be worth melt. 😬
Thanks @MetroD ......those are some big bucks for an ounce of silver and a signed COA.
Don’t see anywhere where it says the COA is signed. The # is there to mislead people as you believed.
There is no such #695 or # 833 out of only 230. 🤔🤔🤔
The number is not there to mislead anyone. They use stock numbers on a lot of their listings.
@Goldbully said:
Who is CoinAddict2020? Is he one of the bilkers? I meant bulkers. 😉
Asking $7,199.99 for 2024 Silver Flowing Hair Ag W/Privy 230Th PCGS MS70 Advanced Releases W/OGP #695.
Listing says 2 sold. Is there any way to find out what they sold fort?
I've bought plenty of coins from him.
Thank you @ProofCollection, I can see that he is a major player with excellent feedback and 80k items sold.
God Bless him for making a nice profit.
I have bought a lot of good coins from him too, and good fair pricing on most.
The numbers at the end are his inventory numbers which he puts on all kinds of listings, and they are not intended to mislead anyone. When you sell that many coins you need a numbering system to keep track of things.
@HATTRICK said:
Certified 70 medals with Privy and signed COA are listing for
$15,000 to $ 19,999.
Unbelievable for something that will sometime in the future only be worth melt. 😬
I don't know about melt for a US Mint issue with a mintage of 1794, but I agree that the future value of the signed COA will be a tiny fraction of whatever people are paying for it now.
After all, it's just a piece of paper. Unlike what they did with the Peace Dollars last year, they are NOT tied to specific strikes of specific medals. And, like some celebrities and wannabe celebrities, she signs pretty much anything anyone puts in her hands at coin shows. As a result, US Mint COAs with her signature on them are going to be the exact opposite of rare in the future.
So, sure, this particular piece of paper is a limited edition of 230. So what? I can't believe there will be even 230 people in the future who will feel they need that particular piece of paper to add to any collection they happen to be curating.
@MsMorrisine said:
let's say someone wants a signed coa in 100 years
which do you want: one signed and denotes the ordinal of the coin struck, or a signed and numbered coa?
what the whole peace shebang going for right now?
Don't know what anything is actually worth, since the market is so thin. But common sense dictates that something with provenance and attribution will always be worth more than just a signed numbered piece of paper.
If for no other reason than I can approach her at the next show and get her to sign my COA. It won't be numbered "X of 230," but will otherwise be identical, since none of them are tied to a specific coin when struck. So why should it be worth significantly less?
I’ve waited all week to open my box of five tonight when my dad came over so we could open them together tonight. Absolutely shocked when I found this guy! I won’t be selling as I’m a collector and love the design of this coin! Good luck to whoever else has sealed ones and is planning on opening!
@Dirt94 said:
I’ve waited all week to open my box of five tonight when my dad came over so we could open them together tonight. Absolutely shocked when I found this guy! I won’t be selling as I’m a collector and love the design of this coin! Good luck to whoever else has sealed ones and is planning on opening!
Congrats @Dirt94 - many props for the win and the collector aspect.
@NJCoin said:
...After all, it's just a piece of paper. Unlike what they did with the Peace Dollars last year, they are NOT tied to specific strikes of specific medals. And, like some celebrities and wannabe celebrities, she signs pretty much anything anyone puts in her hands at coin shows. As a result, US Mint COAs with her signature on them are going to be the exact opposite of rare in the future....
Has she appeared in public since the medal shipped and been confronted with a request to sign a "standard" FHM COA? I don't know anything about her, but surely this person is sophisticated enough to realize that doing so would at least slightly undermine the exclusivity of the most rare component of the FHM release?
@NJCoin said:
...After all, it's just a piece of paper. Unlike what they did with the Peace Dollars last year, they are NOT tied to specific strikes of specific medals. And, like some celebrities and wannabe celebrities, she signs pretty much anything anyone puts in her hands at coin shows. As a result, US Mint COAs with her signature on them are going to be the exact opposite of rare in the future....
Has she appeared in public since the medal shipped and been confronted with a request to sign a "standard" FHM COA? I don't know anything about her, but surely this person is sophisticated enough to realize that doing so would at least slightly undermine the exclusivity of the most rare component of the FHM release?
And what do you think the signed COA by itself would be worth? $100. The privy is driving the price not the COA.
Comments
Probably special signed COAs if I had to guess. Then you can run over to have it on-site graded and the put it up on ebay for $25k.
I would very happily take the other side of that bet. 75K-ish have indeed been sold, as indicated by the fact that you cannot buy one, right now, from the Mint, either on back order or for immediate delivery.
I do, however, have a feeling they might have held a few hundred back for inclusion in the gold auction we all just heard about. But that's it. A few hundred, not 34,000.
Anyone dreaming that nearly half of an announced maximum mintage is going to magically appear for sale, after the item went Unavailable, simply because they are not appearing on a sales report is going to be very disappointed when they magically appear, not on the website for sale, but on a subsequent sales report.
Nah. I agree with @MetroD on this. If it was just signed COAs, they would seed them like they did with the silvers.
To go to the expense of an auction, it will involve slabbed examples with attribution, such as "X of Y." Likely also including a signed COA. Just like what they did with the Dawn and Dusk when they changed the Eagles a few years ago.
Not necessarily. If there is no schedule for the others, they need to move them while they can. They also often presell some so they may just be filling orders.
Market Update:
Thanks for the chart! Prices should peak this week, November will be different.
Opened my one medal. No privy and no autograph. Nice COA. The Medal is flawless.
Nice medal, but too bad it wasn't made as a $1 coin like the real one.
Looks like the Mint is planning to do the same thing with the 2026 silver "items"; making them medals instead of coins. In my opinion if the Mint does so then its a big mistake.
Where was this posted? Link doesnt take you to this detail only silver medal info.
Not their choice. For whatever reason, they have Congressional authorization to do whatever they want with silver medals, but have to go back to Congress to get specific authorization for any coin they want to make.
This is the most expeditious way to go about business. And, as proven with this medal, all the complaining about medal vs. coin is just pointless hand wringing. Having the Flowing Hair be a medal instead of coin cost them NOTHING, even if some individuals on this very forum took a pass simply because it is a medal.
Their loss, since the people who have them seem to like them, some won a lucrative lottery, and, to date, they are holding their value. And, whatever happens to their value going forward will not be dictated by medal vs. coin.
Keep reading. All the way to the bottom of the release. The link takes you right there.
I see it now. I guess we will anxiously await details.
Anyway, 75 coins arrived. Broken up in shipment of 50 and of 25. Two separate shipments.
And the result........... 2 Privys (w/o signed cert). Both in the box of 50. No Privys in the box of 25.
Congratulations on getting the order in, and on getting the privys. Very glad they didn't hose you when they broke open the original box and broke up your order. Nice score!!
Congrats @coiner Two is good!!!!
The Mint should seek the authorization from Congress for silver coins in 2026, and into the future. Congress should act on its own. I'm going to write my Congressman about this issue; in fact, all members of this forum, who would like to see silver coins, should write their Congresspersons.
Totally agree. I don't understand the politics behind it, but, if the Mint has the authority to create non circulating numismatic gold coins, there is no reason silver rounds should not also be monetized without specific Congressional approval each time.
Costs the Mint whatever from people who just won't touch medals, with no corresponding benefit to anyone.
Once you've written it, please post the body of your letter so it can be used as a template.
a silver dime melts for $2.45 but is only 10 cents face
first problem, silver can move up in value and cause hoarding without melting
second, even if the price of silver remains the same, a silver dime would need to be less that 10/245ths the weight of previous years' dimes. that's 0.0408
never happen
gold standards are similarly impossible due to the changing price of gold, plus the added disadvantage that to grow money supply more gold would need to be dug or the price of gold increased artificially.
never happen
so who has the cool error COA? w/o UNITED STATES MINT
Didn't see it flip this morning.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago, Rob41281
These are done
Box of 20
no flip today......
Pop Report as of October 24, 2024
485 new non-privy graded.....that's a lot for one day.
There are going to be a lot of PCGS graded FH medals showing up on eBay it appears.
The First Strike MS69 graded has improved to 53.6% down from 61.4%.
8 new privy graded.
What do you mean? I thought 34,000 are still waiting to be sold! 🤣🤣🤣
No, actually, "They fell off the truck"
Remember watching the big boys holding thousands of mint products and creating artificial demand? Not trying to be dramatic here just offering another possibility.
They’ll sell like hotcakes to the crowd that watches those home shopping channels. Once the barkers start saying how incredibly rare and valuable those 69’s are, they’ll fly off the shelves. I watched one guy selling silver bars (basic ones) for approximately $75 each a few years ago when silver was at $18 an ounce or so. He kept telling everyone how the opportunity to own PURE, SOLID 99.999% silver didn’t happen often and that they needed to get their orders in quickly before they sold out. The folks calling in were beyond thrilled to score such an amazing RARE commodity …even though you could buy the exact same thing on eBay for $25 with free shipping. 😉
still no image of the gold coin.
They're sitting in a GSA warehouse next to Indy Jones's Ark of the Covenant.
Who is CoinAddict2020? Is he one of the bilkers? I meant bulkers. 😉
Asking $7,199.99 for 2024 Silver Flowing Hair Ag W/Privy 230Th PCGS MS70 Advanced Releases W/OGP #695.
Listing says 2 sold. Is there any way to find out what they sold fort?
eBay Listing
Source: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=2024+Silver+Flowing+Hair+Ag+W/Privy+230Th+PCGS+MS70+Advanced+Releases+W/OGP&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
Edited to Add: Just noticed the seller is offering two different labels. My results mixed the versions. But, that was all that I could find. Perhaps someone with better eBay skills can find the two sales with the specific label you asked about.
I've bought plenty of coins from him.
Thanks @MetroD ......those are some big bucks for an ounce of silver and a signed COA.
Thank you @ProofCollection, I can see that he is a major player with excellent feedback and 80k items sold.
God Bless him for making a nice profit.
Not sure the item you posted, or the ones that I posted, came with the signed COA.
Don’t see anywhere where it says the COA is signed. The # is there to mislead people as you believed.
There is no such #695 or # 833 out of only 230. 🤔🤔🤔
It appears I assumed signed COA.
@HATTRICK is right, it looks like I bought into the serialized number COA mistique......good point!
Certified 70 medals with Privy and signed COA are listing for
$15,000 to $ 19,999.
Unbelievable for something that will sometime in the future only be worth melt. 😬
Privy
Amen Brother!
The number is not there to mislead anyone. They use stock numbers on a lot of their listings.
I have bought a lot of good coins from him too, and good fair pricing on most.
The numbers at the end are his inventory numbers which he puts on all kinds of listings, and they are not intended to mislead anyone. When you sell that many coins you need a numbering system to keep track of things.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I don't know about melt for a US Mint issue with a mintage of 1794, but I agree that the future value of the signed COA will be a tiny fraction of whatever people are paying for it now.
After all, it's just a piece of paper. Unlike what they did with the Peace Dollars last year, they are NOT tied to specific strikes of specific medals. And, like some celebrities and wannabe celebrities, she signs pretty much anything anyone puts in her hands at coin shows. As a result, US Mint COAs with her signature on them are going to be the exact opposite of rare in the future.
So, sure, this particular piece of paper is a limited edition of 230. So what? I can't believe there will be even 230 people in the future who will feel they need that particular piece of paper to add to any collection they happen to be curating.
let's say someone wants a signed coa in 100 years
which do you want: one signed and denotes the ordinal of the coin struck, or a signed and numbered coa?
what the whole peace shebang going for right now?
Don't know what anything is actually worth, since the market is so thin. But common sense dictates that something with provenance and attribution will always be worth more than just a signed numbered piece of paper.
If for no other reason than I can approach her at the next show and get her to sign my COA. It won't be numbered "X of 230," but will otherwise be identical, since none of them are tied to a specific coin when struck. So why should it be worth significantly less?
I’ve waited all week to open my box of five tonight when my dad came over so we could open them together tonight. Absolutely shocked when I found this guy! I won’t be selling as I’m a collector and love the design of this coin! Good luck to whoever else has sealed ones and is planning on opening!
Congrats @Dirt94 - many props for the win and the collector aspect.
Tim
Has she appeared in public since the medal shipped and been confronted with a request to sign a "standard" FHM COA? I don't know anything about her, but surely this person is sophisticated enough to realize that doing so would at least slightly undermine the exclusivity of the most rare component of the FHM release?
And what do you think the signed COA by itself would be worth? $100. The privy is driving the price not the COA.