@craig44 said:
they 100% need to tank this game. what is to gain by winning?
Respect.
nope, in professional sports it is all about results. one meaningless win in december is nothing. draft capital is everything when a team is in this position. winning this game would be short sighted in the extreme.
Then just forfeit the game. And next season. Get those picks. Save on salary. Soooooo. Lame.
I wish Craig were the head coach and we were privy to his pregame pep talk to the team.
That would be inspiring.
Yup, the overall number one pick is too important. I would start milton and all the rookies and bench the starters. See what they have and treat it like a preseason game. the game is essentially meaningless to both teams playing. What do you think the Bills or Eagles pep talks will sound like? they are not planning to win their games either. Do they have a more "pure" motivation for their respective games?
I just don’t like the idea of a team tanking a game which may impact the overall results in the league. Such as one bubble team gets in while another doesn’t because some team wants to lose for a higher draft pick. If a playoff team locked into a spot wants to rest their starters then I know it’s not Dan Campbell. That doesn’t bother me - resting stars. But trying to lose does.
Craig….. I’ve already said the Pats should rest Maye because you sure don’t want him to suffer a serious knee injury etc during the last game but they should still try to win. Why didn’t the Raiders try to lose… they’ve won their last two games. Because they have pride in the effort they put forth on the field.
The Chiefs and Bills and Eagles are in a different situation and you know it. And they are going to try to win their games but it would be stupid to play key players. In fact I think it’s stupid the Bills are going to start Allen just to keep his streak intact.
Why put so much emphasis on the draft? Teams screw up their top picks year after year. That’s the most overrated thing in the NFL, having the number 1 pick. The Chiefs have a dynasty in progress and guess how many number 1 draft picks on the roster? 0 that I know of.
Was it the right decision for the Eagles to bench Barkley this weekend when he is so close to the single season rushing record AND his inclusion in the game would greatly assist his team in winning the game? or is it the right decision to rest him?
I think this is a great example of when to rest a starter. The guy has 340+ touches, not including everything else he does. He also had opportunities to run up his total earlier in the season in a few games and came out. 9th person to eclipse 2000 yards is enough for him it seems, which is one of those stats which resonates with a lot of fans. Plus I think the Eagles learned their lesson with AB.
This isn't a case where there's nothing for the Eagles to play for so tank the game... This is a case where they have everything to play for (Super Bowl) so rest the guy(s) who carried the load. I understand the business decision behind tanking for a higher pick - even if that pick doesn't pan out it is a valuable trade chip. I just don't like the ethics of a team trying to lose a game for that purpose. I think the draft order should be randomized yearly. I would probably promote some better football decisions in the draft. Just giving a team a high draft pick because they suck isn't necessarily going to improve their team or parity in the league. In fact it probably means you're looking at a foolish GM who's trying to build a team around some hot QB or WR in the draft instead of building his team from the bottom up. I think there are a lot of teams that could learn something from Ron Wolf.
@Darin said:
Craig….. I’ve already said the Pats should rest Maye because you sure don’t want him to suffer a serious knee injury etc during the last game but they should still try to win. Why didn’t the Raiders try to lose… they’ve won their last two games. Because they have pride in the effort they put forth on the field.
The Chiefs and Bills and Eagles are in a different situation and you know it. And they are going to try to win their games but it would be stupid to play key players. In fact I think it’s stupid the Bills are going to start Allen just to keep his streak intact.
Why put so much emphasis on the draft? Teams screw up their top picks year after year. That’s the most overrated thing in the NFL, having the number 1 pick. The Chiefs have a dynasty in progress and guess how many number 1 draft picks on the roster? 0 that I know of.
the Chiefs and Bills and Eagles are most assuredly NOT trying to win those games. if they were trying to win, they would not rest their starters. The starters give them the best chance to win. They are giving game 17 away because it will benefit their teams in the longer term quest of winning the SB and I agree with it. If your goal is to win a game, wouldnt you play your best players?
To put it another way, Why play the good players in the SB? just rest them and play the backups and let them play hard. you know, to win. It is obvious that the top teams have an agenda by sitting their best players in the meaninless final game. That agenda is NOT to win the game, it is to rest those players and avoid needless injury. The agenda is to hopefully have more meaningful wins later. This is the SAME agenda a team would have in tanking for higher draft picks. sacrifice meaningless games now in an attempt to get better players to win meaningful games later.
You know all this. you are being purposefully obtuse.
Do you really need to ask about emphasis on the draft? The draft and FA are the best chances poor teams (or any team for that matter) can add players in order to improve. Just because NE may get the first pick doesnt mean they will keep it. It may be a better option to trade down, and as you know, the most valuable asset is pick number one. There are no guarantees. just like there is no guarantee that Mahomes will not blow out his achilles in the first playoff practice, but resting him in the final game will help to mitigate that risk.
I wonder if there are NFL win-loss statistics on games mentioned, whereby the teams have their various playoff position locked in, so they rest the starters?
@bgr said:
I just don’t like the idea of a team tanking a game which may impact the overall results in the league. Such as one bubble team gets in while another doesn’t because some team wants to lose for a higher draft pick. If a playoff team locked into a spot wants to rest their starters then I know it’s not Dan Campbell. That doesn’t bother me - resting stars. But trying to lose does.
you need to look at it from a team perspective. doesnt it make more sense for the eagles to sit Barkley and ensure he does not get injured during the meaningless last game? The Eagles coaching staff and management and players do not care about bubble teams either making the playoffs or not. nor should they. They should care about their team and its fitness to play the best football possible in the playoffs.
Bubble teams should play better and not be bubble teams to begin with.
keep in mind, resting stars IS trying to lose. it is a team telling you, without explicitly saying the words, that they are more concerned with the playoffs than they are in playing a final, meaningless regular season game. As they should be. If they were trying to actually win the game, they would simply play their best players.
remember, starting backups and rookies in place of resting starters and letting them play as hard as possible is NOT trying to win. It is purposfully not putting your best product on the field.
If I have a Ferrari and a Camry and am heading to the drag strip, which car do I drive if I am legitimately trying to win?
If I CHOOSE to drive the Camry I am not trying to win am I?
In 2012 the Packers rested Rodgers and a few others on offense. Flynn threw for 6TDs against Detroit and they won 45-41. That was the year the Packers went 15-1 (losing only to the Chiefs... at home) and were expected to win everything. They had a week off and then played the wildcard Giants at home and laid an egg. Rodgers was crusty.
Similar situation to the locked in scenario.
Packers weren't trying to lose that game just because they were resting some starters.
In the end, I agree with many GB fans than it hurt us in the play-offs.
Every one of those situations is different and I'm not second-guessing coaching decisions here. I just look at these situations as different than when a 2-whatever win team, circling the drain, is trying to lose so they can get that #1 pick. It's just an opinion - I understand yours and I'm not trying to change it.
Craig there’s a huge difference between resting starters because your team is in the playoffs… and intentionally trying to lose because you want the highest possible draft pick and you know that so you’re the one being obtuse.
You want your team to lose, fine I’ll stop making a big deal about it but you’ll never get me to understand it.
Personally I think you’re typing out long, muddled paragraphs to try to justify in your mind why it’s okay that you just spent an entire NFL regular season hoping your favorite team loses every single game.
@Darin said:
Craig there’s a huge difference between resting starters because your team is in the playoffs… and intentionally trying to lose because you want the highest possible draft pick and you know that so you’re the one being obtuse.
You want your team to lose, fine I’ll stop making a big deal about it but you’ll never get me to understand it.
Personally I think you’re typing out long, muddled paragraphs to try to justify in your mind why it’s okay that you just spent an entire NFL regular season hoping your favorite team loses every single game.
is not "resting starters" intentionally trying to lose? How exactly is it not? I am not purposefully trying to be obtuse, I really do not understand your distinction.
When you choose to not field your best team, for whatever reason, you are trying to lose. No?
It seems that a few posters here are stuck on "honor" and being hung up on it when it comes to intentionally losing games in order to get the highest draft pick possible.
Is it a bad decision for a General to retreat and concede a battle so that his army is not destroyed and he can regroup and fight another day? Should he allow his army to be decimated so that he can lose "honorably?"
Everything a Pro Football team does should push them closer to winning a super bowl. winning a meaningless game in december or january does not assist in that goal. at all.
Obviously I am in the minority but if I were Barkley I would want to play and set the record.
If he sets the all time single season rushing record that will be an accomplishment he has forever. Not many players have had the all time single season rushing record.
The reality is only one team wins the Super Bowl, nobody cares about anything a team accomplishes other than that. The Eagles chances simply aren’t that good, certainly not worth ignoring a chance at history.
Individual records mean more and are much more difficult to achieve. No one cares that Dickerson and the Rams didn’t win the Super Bowl the year he set the rushing record.
In the NFL only QB greatness includes Super Bowl victories. The other positions aren’t judged by how many super bowls won.
Lastly, the injury risk is totally overblown. Football players play football.
Craig, okay you’ve convinced me. The Pats should have lost all 17 games on purpose this year. No mockery of the game at all.
Maybe next year you’ll get your perfect 0 win season. 👍
@Darin said:
Craig, okay you’ve convinced me. The Pats should have lost all 17 games on purpose this year. No mockery of the game at all.
Maybe next year you’ll get your perfect 0 win season. 👍
you completely sidestepped and refused to answer a direct question. I guess I will chalk that one down as a win!!
I’ve told you and all you do is ignore. So once again…. Resting starters so they don’t get injured in an upcoming playoff game is completely different than losing on purpose.
So I’m done here.
You want your team to go 0-17, so be it. But don’t ask me to understand because I never will.
@Darin said:
Craig, okay you’ve convinced me. The Pats should have lost all 17 games on purpose this year. No mockery of the game at all.
Maybe next year you’ll get your perfect 0 win season. 👍
Darin, this entire debate really boils down to those two sentences that you just posted...New England tried to win every single game that they played to this point in the season and in every single game the opposing team was more talented than the Patriots on the field, usually by a wide margin.
Sure there were a few instances (3 to be exact) where the Pats made enough plays to win the game but if you watched this team on a weekly basis you'd clearly see that disparity of talent mentioned above.
With all due respect (or disrespect? lol) to the Chicago Bears, The New England Patriots have the worst assortment of offensive linemen in the NFL. They also have the worst collection of wide receivers in football.
As we just saw this past offseason when NE had a crap ton of cap space, the top free agents didn't want to come play here when their entire offense was a complete unknown at the time, because of...
a Rookie Head coach
a new Offensive Coordinator making his debut at calling plays
almost an entirely new offensive coaching staff
didn't retain a single QB from 2023 but did end up with the 3rd overall pick Drake Maye
their starting RB was on IR
so was their best WR (Bourne)
the WRs after him were all unproven
and the offensive line was by far the worst in football
Fast forward 16 weeks into the 2024 season and the only improvement that can be gleaned from that entire list is...
Drake Maye looks like a keeper
maybe WR Kayshon Boutte too
after that their entire offense was complete shit as is their current coaching staff lol.
The team has 130+M to spend in free agency but we're likely going to see a repeat of the 2024 offseason where top end Free Agents aren't going to want to come play for the worst team in football unless its an absolute overpay and when have we ever seen the Kraft's go that route? (cue Bronco's tourette's kicking in in 3..2..1 😎)
The Patriots aren't playing for the playoffs so the only thing that matters at this point is putting themselves in the best possible position to maximize their draft pick.
Winning this game on Sunday counts for nothing and if someone really wants to make that argument then that argument should start with If a win vs Buffalo on Sunday is so important then Drake Maye should be playing all game.
Respectfully, you're sitting on the fence here with your argument. You want the team to protect their future by sitting the QB which really just goes back to the same point that craig & I have both made regarding protecting their future (meaning holding onto that 1st overall pick.) Then in the same argument above you're calling playing for the pick (Meaning sitting your starting QB) a mockery. Again, you're trying to have it both ways.
You & BGR are making it sound like us Pats fans want the Patriots to go out there and just stand there while the Bills offense & defense just run up the score untouched. That doesn't happen in NFL games (outside of Brett Favre taking a dive intentionally for Michael Strahan's sack record) and the only people that see the word TANK and just assume that is the case tend to wear tinfoil hats. You two don't seem to be the tin foil hat wearing types.
Eric- that’s a good post. One more reply and I’m done with the subject.
I didn’t say the Pats were trying to lose any games this year, they’re professional athletes with too much pride and self respect to do that. I said Craig, as a fan, wanted them to lose all 17 which I just can’t understand. I’ve been a Chiefs fan for around 55 years and there have been bad times but not once have I wanted them to lose a single game. I just don’t think having say, a top 1 or 2 pick in the draft is as important as it’s made out to be. You mentioned the Bears, they have high draft picks every single year and always suck. The Chiefs took Todd Blackledge instead of Marino and I think Jim Kelly. Why did every team pass on the GOAT Brady until the Pats picked him at 199? Sorry but the GM is much more important than what draft picks your team has. The Chiefs have the best GM in football, Brett Veach, not the highest draft picks. That’s why they’re a dynasty, they have a genius in evaluating football talent making the picks.
And I’ve tried to explain this but i am not sitting on the fence. Maye can sit and NE can still give 100% max effort to win just like Mahomes sitting and KC giving 100%. It’s not rocket science, it’s the same reason starters don’t play all the preseason games, so they don’t get injured. But the players that do play are trying to win.
Craig doesn’t understand my point but I hope you do….. Craig wants the players who are on the field to intentionally lose the game. I want the players on the field to try to win every single game regardless if it’s starters or subs.
Craig won’t answer that fact, he just keeps throwing it back to … well if they really wanted to win the starters would be playing. He completely understands that ain’t happening when a playoff game looms ahead.
@Darin said:
Eric- that’s a good post. One more reply and I’m done with the subject.
I didn’t say the Pats were trying to lose any games this year, they’re professional athletes with too much pride and self respect to do that. I said Craig, as a fan, wanted them to lose all 17 which I just can’t understand. I’ve been a Chiefs fan for around 55 years and there have been bad times but not once have I wanted them to lose a single game. I just don’t think having say, a top 1 or 2 pick in the draft is as important as it’s made out to be. You mentioned the Bears, they have high draft picks every single year and always suck. The Chiefs took Todd Blackledge instead of Marino and I think Jim Kelly. Why did every team pass on the GOAT Brady until the Pats picked him at 199? Sorry but the GM is much more important than what draft picks your team has. The Chiefs have the best GM in football, Brett Veach, not the highest draft picks. That’s why they’re a dynasty, they have a genius in evaluating football talent making the picks.
And I’ve tried to explain this but i am not sitting on the fence. Maye can sit and NE can still give 100% max effort to win just like Mahomes sitting and KC giving 100%. It’s not rocket science, it’s the same reason starters don’t play all the preseason games, so they don’t get injured. But the players that do play are trying to win.
Craig doesn’t understand my point but I hope you do….. Craig wants the players who are on the field to intentionally lose the game. I want the players on the field to try to win every single game regardless if it’s starters or subs.
Craig won’t answer that fact, he just keeps throwing it back to … well if they really wanted to win the starters would be playing. He completely understands that ain’t happening when a playoff game looms ahead.
The importance for the Patriots to get this first overall pick is because they're in all likelihood going to trade that pick, they have to many holes on both sides of the ball not too. If they finish the season holding onto that #1 pick, in all probability the teams in spots 2-3-4 are almost certainly going to be in need of a QB. In what is considered a two QB draft (Shadeur & Ward) the Pats should be able parlay that pick into multiple high picks by getting those QB needy teams to outbid each other for the chance to have their pick of any Quarterback.
Ideally the Pats would draft Travis Hunter with their 1st and draft the best left tackle with their 2nd rounder but there's a realistic possibility that they could trade that 1st to whoever is sitting 3rd,that team gets their Qb at 1, and NE could still end up with Hunter at 3 if that 2nd team takes Ward. Trading from 1st to 3rd would likely net at least two 2nds but more likely a future 1st and a 2nd this year. Being in position to take advantage in a scenario like THAT is why its so important for NE to come away with the #1 pick.
I know one of the draftniks here will want to point out how the consensus think that this is a bad draft but that's irrelevant here when we've seen how certain QB needy teams lose all common sense when making some of these deals. It just takes one then the Pats will have the ability to fill numerous roster holes much sooner than it would normally take just staying and not trading back.
None of this guarantees that the Pats front office won't F it all up even if everything falls as hoped but having the ability to maximize their value on it is what's most important here. Seeing that we're all here on a site where we're all maximizing the value of our collectibles,be it coins or cards, we all know how important that is.
I don't remember Craig ever saying he'd want to see NE lose all 17 games but he probably was just hinting exactly what I've been saying about landing that pick. The only avenue that the Pats have of improving the talent on this team is through the draft and those extra picks are sorely needed.
That all being said, this organization has used up all of its good fortune during those later Pats-Brady years. Knowing their luck these days they'll get a Herschel Walker type draft haul, then when Pats fans get their hopes up...
this is all a little silly. It really is coming down to semantics here. whether a team tanks or decides to healthy scratch its best starters all amount to the same thing: a loss. choosing to lose for a longer term goal.
I guess it makes some posters ¨feel¨ better if their team CHOOSES to sit star players for a later playoff game than it does for a team to tank. same difference either way. the result is the same. it is not more honorable to sit players and have the backups play their hearts out for the same exact loss the tanking team will earn.
Funny part is there might actually be a better chance to win with the backups playing for a job. The stars with contracts will make business decisions in meaningless games
@craig44 said:
this is all a little silly. It really is coming down to semantics here. whether a team tanks or decides to healthy scratch its best starters all amount to the same thing: a loss. choosing to lose for a longer term goal.
I guess it makes some posters ¨feel¨ better if their team CHOOSES to sit star players for a later playoff game than it does for a team to tank. same difference either way. the result is the same. it is not more honorable to sit players and have the backups play their hearts out for the same exact loss the tanking team will earn.
maybe the good teams and good players earned a day off? and its useful to rest them for the playoffs
@craig44 said:
this is all a little silly. It really is coming down to semantics here. whether a team tanks or decides to healthy scratch its best starters all amount to the same thing: a loss. choosing to lose for a longer term goal.
I guess it makes some posters ¨feel¨ better if their team CHOOSES to sit star players for a later playoff game than it does for a team to tank. same difference either way. the result is the same. it is not more honorable to sit players and have the backups play their hearts out for the same exact loss the tanking team will earn.
maybe the good teams and good players earned a day off? and its useful to rest them for the playoffs
im only on my first coffee
the tourettes wont kick in until later
I agree! rest those starters. I have never had a problem with that. It will make the team better in the long run.
likewise, rest those starters on terrible teams as well. It will also make them better in the long run.
Between Maye getting his bell rung on the third play from scrimmage last week, then having it happen again on the very next play after returning to being limited in practice this week with a hand injury, this really should be a no brainer decision.
After spending all summer, then the season, worrying about not damaging Drake Maye in a season where everyone knew the team would be crap, rolling him out there in a meaningless final game when he’s already pretty banged up goes against everything that they’ve been preaching for months.
@craig44 said:
this is all a little silly. It really is coming down to semantics here. whether a team tanks or decides to healthy scratch its best starters all amount to the same thing: a loss. choosing to lose for a longer term goal.
I guess it makes some posters ¨feel¨ better if their team CHOOSES to sit star players for a later playoff game than it does for a team to tank. same difference either way. the result is the same. it is not more honorable to sit players and have the backups play their hearts out for the same exact loss the tanking team will earn.
maybe the good teams and good players earned a day off? and its useful to rest them for the playoffs
im only on my first coffee
the tourettes wont kick in until later
That Tourette’s remark wasn’t meant to be a dig, more of an observation, that whenever someone mentions Kraft’s spending habits you appear soon after like Beetlejuice reminding everyone how cheap he is, which has been pretty hilarious at times lol. Enjoy your coffee!
@perkdog said:
I hope they play Milton, I'd like to see if he has any kind of potential
Anthony Richardson whose bigger, stronger, and has a better arm. Can throw 60 yards off his back foot and doesnt always know where it can go. Throws some 100 fastballs to guys 5 yards away too.
I would definitely start Milroe too and was surprised he wasnt the go to from the start, but Im also surprised he hasnt been tried as a TE
pats really don’t look like they want to lose. The O-line just pushed a running back about 10 yards to the 1 yard line. And now TD pats.
7-0 Pats 🥳
C’mon Patriots you have a lot of loyal fans that deserve a win today.
I had my sister's family show up to visit 20mins before the game so I haven't been able to tune in until right now. Apparently Joe Milton is playing lights out so far going 14/15 152yds & 1 passing TD.
Milton’s physical size and athleticism reminded me of early Cam Newton… which is a compliment… but Milton has a rocket arm. He made a lot of great passes into tight coverage.
Really good game for him, scrambling ability was very good also.
I only watched the 2nd half but he played very well for a guy making his NFL debut/first start. At the very least, I'd move on from Brissett as their 2025 backup QB for Milton.
edit: I don't remember if Terrell Jennings couldn't hold it all the way to the ground or if he just missed getting the ball around the pylon but Milton just missed out on another TD pass on top of the one from your video.
With Mayo gone hopefully Kraft sends Eliot Wolf packing with him.
This sums up his decision making as a 1st year GM this season...
He trades the 34th pick to the Chargers for picks 37 & 110.
LA drafts WR Ladd McConkey at 34 who finishes with 77rec 1054yards & 7tds
NE drafts WRs Ja'Lynn Polk & Javon Baker at picks 37 & 110 who combined for 13rec 99yds 2 tds
Against the Pats in Week 16 McConkey almost topped the combined Polk/Baker totals in one game when he went for 8/94/2 in a Chargers blowout.
There are reports coming out that Mayo knew going into this game that he was gone regardless of the result and winning this game must have felt great going out like he did. He should have been gone after last week's embarrassing loss to the Chargers.
This franchise really deserves all of the ridicule being thrown their way right now.
This of course wasn't the only reason for the firing, but in my opinion Mayo sealed his fate, I forget what week it was, when he called his team "soft" after a loss. That's just something a football coach should never do, really on any level, let alone the NFL.
i never chimed in on the topic being discussed above, but after today's events i feel the need. i have to side with the resident Pats backers who were hoping for a Pats L today. i don't think it makes them sorry fans, because in this case losing increases the probability of winning in the long run. but now that they came out on top of a meaningless game, it sets the stage for the dreaded "what if" scenario. what if Travis Hunter turns out to be Deion on steroids? didja see the link i posted above? kid plays football and looks like he could win an NBA slam dunk competition. a complete and total freak he is. isn't that precisely what New England needs right now? now instead of possessing all the leverage and having to ability to pull the trigger on him if they decided to do so, they're now reduced to molesting a lucky rabbit's foot.
just wasn't worth it. potentially the worst win in the history of the franchise.
@erikthredd said:
With Mayo gone hopefully Kraft sends Eliot Wolf packing with him.
This sums up his decision making as a 1st year GM this season...
He trades the 34th pick to the Chargers for picks 37 & 110.
LA drafts WR Ladd McConkey at 34 who finishes with 77rec 1054yards & 7tds
NE drafts WRs Ja'Lynn Polk & Javon Baker at picks 37 & 110 who combined for 13rec 99yds 2 tds
Against the Pats in Week 16 McConkey almost topped the combined Polk/Baker totals in one game when he went for 8/94/2 in a Chargers blowout.
@galaxy27 said:
i never chimed in on the topic being discussed above, but after today's events i feel the need. i have to side with the resident Pats backers who were hoping for a Pats L today. i don't think it makes them sorry fans, because in this case losing increases the probability of winning in the long run. but now that they came out on top of a meaningless game, it sets the stage for the dreaded "what if" scenario. what if Travis Hunter turns out to be Deion on steroids? didja see the link i posted above? kid plays football and looks like he could win an NBA slam dunk competition. a complete and total freak he is. isn't that precisely what New England needs right now? now instead of possessing all the leverage and having to ability to pull the trigger on him if they decided to do so, they're now reduced to molesting a lucky rabbit's foot.
just wasn't worth it. potentially the worst win in the history of the franchise.
Believe me Buffalo. wanted to. stick it to. us any way they could they were playing their 3rd stringers lol
@galaxy27 said:
i never chimed in on the topic being discussed above, but after today's events i feel the need. i have to side with the resident Pats backers who were hoping for a Pats L today. i don't think it makes them sorry fans, because in this case losing increases the probability of winning in the long run. but now that they came out on top of a meaningless game, it sets the stage for the dreaded "what if" scenario. what if Travis Hunter turns out to be Deion on steroids? didja see the link i posted above? kid plays football and looks like he could win an NBA slam dunk competition. a complete and total freak he is. isn't that precisely what New England needs right now? now instead of possessing all the leverage and having to ability to pull the trigger on him if they decided to do so, they're now reduced to molesting a lucky rabbit's foot.
just wasn't worth it. potentially the worst win in the history of the franchise.
Believe me Buffalo. wanted to. stick it to. us any way they could they were playing their 3rd stringers lol
this is true. we should have activated the practice squad
Technically Mayo did what I was at least hoping for going into that game, he sat most of their better offensive players. Doing a quick check of who actually sat, these were the notable names...
Hunter Henry DNP
Rhamondre Stevenson DNP
Ja'Lynn Polk DNP
Christain Gonzalez - out with concussion but not sure if he could have played or not
Sidy Sow - out with injury but not sure if he could have played or not
Drake Maye played one series
Michael Onwenu played one series
Deathrich Wise Jr played roughly 20% of the defensive snaps
Davon Godcheaux played roughly 20% of the defensive snaps
Jonathan Jones, Kyle Dugger & Jahlani Tavai all played considerably less defensive snaps than usual
Credit to the players who DID play for playing with some pride, many of them were likely auditioning for roles/jobs in 2025.
Comments
Yup, the overall number one pick is too important. I would start milton and all the rookies and bench the starters. See what they have and treat it like a preseason game. the game is essentially meaningless to both teams playing. What do you think the Bills or Eagles pep talks will sound like? they are not planning to win their games either. Do they have a more "pure" motivation for their respective games?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I just don’t like the idea of a team tanking a game which may impact the overall results in the league. Such as one bubble team gets in while another doesn’t because some team wants to lose for a higher draft pick. If a playoff team locked into a spot wants to rest their starters then I know it’s not Dan Campbell. That doesn’t bother me - resting stars. But trying to lose does.
Craig….. I’ve already said the Pats should rest Maye because you sure don’t want him to suffer a serious knee injury etc during the last game but they should still try to win. Why didn’t the Raiders try to lose… they’ve won their last two games. Because they have pride in the effort they put forth on the field.
The Chiefs and Bills and Eagles are in a different situation and you know it. And they are going to try to win their games but it would be stupid to play key players. In fact I think it’s stupid the Bills are going to start Allen just to keep his streak intact.
Why put so much emphasis on the draft? Teams screw up their top picks year after year. That’s the most overrated thing in the NFL, having the number 1 pick. The Chiefs have a dynasty in progress and guess how many number 1 draft picks on the roster? 0 that I know of.
I think this is a great example of when to rest a starter. The guy has 340+ touches, not including everything else he does. He also had opportunities to run up his total earlier in the season in a few games and came out. 9th person to eclipse 2000 yards is enough for him it seems, which is one of those stats which resonates with a lot of fans. Plus I think the Eagles learned their lesson with AB.
This isn't a case where there's nothing for the Eagles to play for so tank the game... This is a case where they have everything to play for (Super Bowl) so rest the guy(s) who carried the load. I understand the business decision behind tanking for a higher pick - even if that pick doesn't pan out it is a valuable trade chip. I just don't like the ethics of a team trying to lose a game for that purpose. I think the draft order should be randomized yearly. I would probably promote some better football decisions in the draft. Just giving a team a high draft pick because they suck isn't necessarily going to improve their team or parity in the league. In fact it probably means you're looking at a foolish GM who's trying to build a team around some hot QB or WR in the draft instead of building his team from the bottom up. I think there are a lot of teams that could learn something from Ron Wolf.
the Chiefs and Bills and Eagles are most assuredly NOT trying to win those games. if they were trying to win, they would not rest their starters. The starters give them the best chance to win. They are giving game 17 away because it will benefit their teams in the longer term quest of winning the SB and I agree with it. If your goal is to win a game, wouldnt you play your best players?
To put it another way, Why play the good players in the SB? just rest them and play the backups and let them play hard. you know, to win. It is obvious that the top teams have an agenda by sitting their best players in the meaninless final game. That agenda is NOT to win the game, it is to rest those players and avoid needless injury. The agenda is to hopefully have more meaningful wins later. This is the SAME agenda a team would have in tanking for higher draft picks. sacrifice meaningless games now in an attempt to get better players to win meaningful games later.
You know all this. you are being purposefully obtuse.
Do you really need to ask about emphasis on the draft? The draft and FA are the best chances poor teams (or any team for that matter) can add players in order to improve. Just because NE may get the first pick doesnt mean they will keep it. It may be a better option to trade down, and as you know, the most valuable asset is pick number one. There are no guarantees. just like there is no guarantee that Mahomes will not blow out his achilles in the first playoff practice, but resting him in the final game will help to mitigate that risk.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I wonder if there are NFL win-loss statistics on games mentioned, whereby the teams have their various playoff position locked in, so they rest the starters?
If I can find something on this, I'll post it.
you need to look at it from a team perspective. doesnt it make more sense for the eagles to sit Barkley and ensure he does not get injured during the meaningless last game? The Eagles coaching staff and management and players do not care about bubble teams either making the playoffs or not. nor should they. They should care about their team and its fitness to play the best football possible in the playoffs.
Bubble teams should play better and not be bubble teams to begin with.
keep in mind, resting stars IS trying to lose. it is a team telling you, without explicitly saying the words, that they are more concerned with the playoffs than they are in playing a final, meaningless regular season game. As they should be. If they were trying to actually win the game, they would simply play their best players.
remember, starting backups and rookies in place of resting starters and letting them play as hard as possible is NOT trying to win. It is purposfully not putting your best product on the field.
If I have a Ferrari and a Camry and am heading to the drag strip, which car do I drive if I am legitimately trying to win?
If I CHOOSE to drive the Camry I am not trying to win am I?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
In 2012 the Packers rested Rodgers and a few others on offense. Flynn threw for 6TDs against Detroit and they won 45-41. That was the year the Packers went 15-1 (losing only to the Chiefs... at home) and were expected to win everything. They had a week off and then played the wildcard Giants at home and laid an egg. Rodgers was crusty.
Similar situation to the locked in scenario.
Every one of those situations is different and I'm not second-guessing coaching decisions here. I just look at these situations as different than when a 2-whatever win team, circling the drain, is trying to lose so they can get that #1 pick. It's just an opinion - I understand yours and I'm not trying to change it.
Craig there’s a huge difference between resting starters because your team is in the playoffs… and intentionally trying to lose because you want the highest possible draft pick and you know that so you’re the one being obtuse.
You want your team to lose, fine I’ll stop making a big deal about it but you’ll never get me to understand it.
Personally I think you’re typing out long, muddled paragraphs to try to justify in your mind why it’s okay that you just spent an entire NFL regular season hoping your favorite team loses every single game.
is not "resting starters" intentionally trying to lose? How exactly is it not? I am not purposefully trying to be obtuse, I really do not understand your distinction.
When you choose to not field your best team, for whatever reason, you are trying to lose. No?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It seems that a few posters here are stuck on "honor" and being hung up on it when it comes to intentionally losing games in order to get the highest draft pick possible.
Is it a bad decision for a General to retreat and concede a battle so that his army is not destroyed and he can regroup and fight another day? Should he allow his army to be decimated so that he can lose "honorably?"
Everything a Pro Football team does should push them closer to winning a super bowl. winning a meaningless game in december or january does not assist in that goal. at all.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Obviously I am in the minority but if I were Barkley I would want to play and set the record.
If he sets the all time single season rushing record that will be an accomplishment he has forever. Not many players have had the all time single season rushing record.
The reality is only one team wins the Super Bowl, nobody cares about anything a team accomplishes other than that. The Eagles chances simply aren’t that good, certainly not worth ignoring a chance at history.
Individual records mean more and are much more difficult to achieve. No one cares that Dickerson and the Rams didn’t win the Super Bowl the year he set the rushing record.
In the NFL only QB greatness includes Super Bowl victories. The other positions aren’t judged by how many super bowls won.
Lastly, the injury risk is totally overblown. Football players play football.
Robb
Craig, okay you’ve convinced me. The Pats should have lost all 17 games on purpose this year. No mockery of the game at all.
Maybe next year you’ll get your perfect 0 win season. 👍
you completely sidestepped and refused to answer a direct question. I guess I will chalk that one down as a win!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I’ve told you and all you do is ignore. So once again…. Resting starters so they don’t get injured in an upcoming playoff game is completely different than losing on purpose.
So I’m done here.
You want your team to go 0-17, so be it. But don’t ask me to understand because I never will.
Darin, this entire debate really boils down to those two sentences that you just posted...New England tried to win every single game that they played to this point in the season and in every single game the opposing team was more talented than the Patriots on the field, usually by a wide margin.
Sure there were a few instances (3 to be exact) where the Pats made enough plays to win the game but if you watched this team on a weekly basis you'd clearly see that disparity of talent mentioned above.
With all due respect (or disrespect? lol) to the Chicago Bears, The New England Patriots have the worst assortment of offensive linemen in the NFL. They also have the worst collection of wide receivers in football.
As we just saw this past offseason when NE had a crap ton of cap space, the top free agents didn't want to come play here when their entire offense was a complete unknown at the time, because of...
a Rookie Head coach
a new Offensive Coordinator making his debut at calling plays
almost an entirely new offensive coaching staff
didn't retain a single QB from 2023 but did end up with the 3rd overall pick Drake Maye
their starting RB was on IR
so was their best WR (Bourne)
the WRs after him were all unproven
and the offensive line was by far the worst in football
Fast forward 16 weeks into the 2024 season and the only improvement that can be gleaned from that entire list is...
Drake Maye looks like a keeper
maybe WR Kayshon Boutte too
after that their entire offense was complete shit as is their current coaching staff lol.
The team has 130+M to spend in free agency but we're likely going to see a repeat of the 2024 offseason where top end Free Agents aren't going to want to come play for the worst team in football unless its an absolute overpay and when have we ever seen the Kraft's go that route? (cue Bronco's tourette's kicking in in 3..2..1 😎)
The Patriots aren't playing for the playoffs so the only thing that matters at this point is putting themselves in the best possible position to maximize their draft pick.
Winning this game on Sunday counts for nothing and if someone really wants to make that argument then that argument should start with If a win vs Buffalo on Sunday is so important then Drake Maye should be playing all game.
Respectfully, you're sitting on the fence here with your argument. You want the team to protect their future by sitting the QB which really just goes back to the same point that craig & I have both made regarding protecting their future (meaning holding onto that 1st overall pick.) Then in the same argument above you're calling playing for the pick (Meaning sitting your starting QB) a mockery. Again, you're trying to have it both ways.
You & BGR are making it sound like us Pats fans want the Patriots to go out there and just stand there while the Bills offense & defense just run up the score untouched. That doesn't happen in NFL games (outside of Brett Favre taking a dive intentionally for Michael Strahan's sack record) and the only people that see the word TANK and just assume that is the case tend to wear tinfoil hats. You two don't seem to be the tin foil hat wearing types.
Eric
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Eric- that’s a good post. One more reply and I’m done with the subject.
I didn’t say the Pats were trying to lose any games this year, they’re professional athletes with too much pride and self respect to do that. I said Craig, as a fan, wanted them to lose all 17 which I just can’t understand. I’ve been a Chiefs fan for around 55 years and there have been bad times but not once have I wanted them to lose a single game. I just don’t think having say, a top 1 or 2 pick in the draft is as important as it’s made out to be. You mentioned the Bears, they have high draft picks every single year and always suck. The Chiefs took Todd Blackledge instead of Marino and I think Jim Kelly. Why did every team pass on the GOAT Brady until the Pats picked him at 199? Sorry but the GM is much more important than what draft picks your team has. The Chiefs have the best GM in football, Brett Veach, not the highest draft picks. That’s why they’re a dynasty, they have a genius in evaluating football talent making the picks.
And I’ve tried to explain this but i am not sitting on the fence. Maye can sit and NE can still give 100% max effort to win just like Mahomes sitting and KC giving 100%. It’s not rocket science, it’s the same reason starters don’t play all the preseason games, so they don’t get injured. But the players that do play are trying to win.
Craig doesn’t understand my point but I hope you do….. Craig wants the players who are on the field to intentionally lose the game. I want the players on the field to try to win every single game regardless if it’s starters or subs.
Craig won’t answer that fact, he just keeps throwing it back to … well if they really wanted to win the starters would be playing. He completely understands that ain’t happening when a playoff game looms ahead.
The importance for the Patriots to get this first overall pick is because they're in all likelihood going to trade that pick, they have to many holes on both sides of the ball not too. If they finish the season holding onto that #1 pick, in all probability the teams in spots 2-3-4 are almost certainly going to be in need of a QB. In what is considered a two QB draft (Shadeur & Ward) the Pats should be able parlay that pick into multiple high picks by getting those QB needy teams to outbid each other for the chance to have their pick of any Quarterback.
Ideally the Pats would draft Travis Hunter with their 1st and draft the best left tackle with their 2nd rounder but there's a realistic possibility that they could trade that 1st to whoever is sitting 3rd,that team gets their Qb at 1, and NE could still end up with Hunter at 3 if that 2nd team takes Ward. Trading from 1st to 3rd would likely net at least two 2nds but more likely a future 1st and a 2nd this year. Being in position to take advantage in a scenario like THAT is why its so important for NE to come away with the #1 pick.
I know one of the draftniks here will want to point out how the consensus think that this is a bad draft but that's irrelevant here when we've seen how certain QB needy teams lose all common sense when making some of these deals. It just takes one then the Pats will have the ability to fill numerous roster holes much sooner than it would normally take just staying and not trading back.
None of this guarantees that the Pats front office won't F it all up even if everything falls as hoped but having the ability to maximize their value on it is what's most important here. Seeing that we're all here on a site where we're all maximizing the value of our collectibles,be it coins or cards, we all know how important that is.
I don't remember Craig ever saying he'd want to see NE lose all 17 games but he probably was just hinting exactly what I've been saying about landing that pick. The only avenue that the Pats have of improving the talent on this team is through the draft and those extra picks are sorely needed.
That all being said, this organization has used up all of its good fortune during those later Pats-Brady years. Knowing their luck these days they'll get a Herschel Walker type draft haul, then when Pats fans get their hopes up...
Eric
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this is all a little silly. It really is coming down to semantics here. whether a team tanks or decides to healthy scratch its best starters all amount to the same thing: a loss. choosing to lose for a longer term goal.
I guess it makes some posters ¨feel¨ better if their team CHOOSES to sit star players for a later playoff game than it does for a team to tank. same difference either way. the result is the same. it is not more honorable to sit players and have the backups play their hearts out for the same exact loss the tanking team will earn.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Funny part is there might actually be a better chance to win with the backups playing for a job. The stars with contracts will make business decisions in meaningless games
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
maybe the good teams and good players earned a day off? and its useful to rest them for the playoffs
im only on my first coffee
the tourettes wont kick in until later
I agree! rest those starters. I have never had a problem with that. It will make the team better in the long run.
likewise, rest those starters on terrible teams as well. It will also make them better in the long run.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I hope they play Milton, I'd like to see if he has any kind of potential
Between Maye getting his bell rung on the third play from scrimmage last week, then having it happen again on the very next play after returning to being limited in practice this week with a hand injury, this really should be a no brainer decision.
After spending all summer, then the season, worrying about not damaging Drake Maye in a season where everyone knew the team would be crap, rolling him out there in a meaningless final game when he’s already pretty banged up goes against everything that they’ve been preaching for months.
Eric
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That Tourette’s remark wasn’t meant to be a dig, more of an observation, that whenever someone mentions Kraft’s spending habits you appear soon after like Beetlejuice reminding everyone how cheap he is, which has been pretty hilarious at times lol. Enjoy your coffee!
Eric
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digs are always welcome !
But I thought you were waiting for me to call bob a pervert and bring up the orchid incident
No, that's all you. I try not to waste time thinking about some old guy's favorite R&T joint.
Just think, we've got about another 20-30 years of Kraft Clan jokes coming once his 4 sons are left in charge! 😉👍
Eric
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Anthony Richardson whose bigger, stronger, and has a better arm. Can throw 60 yards off his back foot and doesnt always know where it can go. Throws some 100 fastballs to guys 5 yards away too.
I would definitely start Milroe too and was surprised he wasnt the go to from the start, but Im also surprised he hasnt been tried as a TE
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Will any fans show up to watch the patriots get annihilated by the Bills today?
pats really don’t look like they want to lose. The O-line just pushed a running back about 10 yards to the 1 yard line. And now TD pats.
7-0 Pats 🥳
C’mon Patriots you have a lot of loyal fans that deserve a win today.
I had my sister's family show up to visit 20mins before the game so I haven't been able to tune in until right now. Apparently Joe Milton is playing lights out so far going 14/15 152yds & 1 passing TD.
Eric
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4th round rookie WR Javon Baker is playing in his 11th game and just caught his 1st reception on the season, better late then never lol.
Eric
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Pats end up with the 4th overall pick which in all likelihood means Travis Hunter will be gone by the time that they pick.
Eric
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i didn't watch NE-Buff today, but it appears Milton played a good game
idk what the future holds for him, but if a QB can make a play like this (even though it was called back) he'll be starting somewhere
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/43299027
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Milton’s physical size and athleticism reminded me of early Cam Newton… which is a compliment… but Milton has a rocket arm. He made a lot of great passes into tight coverage.
Really good game for him, scrambling ability was very good also.
I only watched the 2nd half but he played very well for a guy making his NFL debut/first start. At the very least, I'd move on from Brissett as their 2025 backup QB for Milton.
edit: I don't remember if Terrell Jennings couldn't hold it all the way to the ground or if he just missed getting the ball around the pylon but Milton just missed out on another TD pass on top of the one from your video.
Eric
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@Darin
he's got a bazooka attached to his arm
he threw this orange about 125 yards
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
With Mayo gone hopefully Kraft sends Eliot Wolf packing with him.
This sums up his decision making as a 1st year GM this season...
He trades the 34th pick to the Chargers for picks 37 & 110.
LA drafts WR Ladd McConkey at 34 who finishes with 77rec 1054yards & 7tds
NE drafts WRs Ja'Lynn Polk & Javon Baker at picks 37 & 110 who combined for 13rec 99yds 2 tds
Against the Pats in Week 16 McConkey almost topped the combined Polk/Baker totals in one game when he went for 8/94/2 in a Chargers blowout.
Eric
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cant believe we won, but at least they fired the bum. theres that...
so short sighted
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The most important game of the year to lose and they screwed that one up too.
There are reports coming out that Mayo knew going into this game that he was gone regardless of the result and winning this game must have felt great going out like he did. He should have been gone after last week's embarrassing loss to the Chargers.
This franchise really deserves all of the ridicule being thrown their way right now.
Eric
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This of course wasn't the only reason for the firing, but in my opinion Mayo sealed his fate, I forget what week it was, when he called his team "soft" after a loss. That's just something a football coach should never do, really on any level, let alone the NFL.
I just hope the players are OK.
i never chimed in on the topic being discussed above, but after today's events i feel the need. i have to side with the resident Pats backers who were hoping for a Pats L today. i don't think it makes them sorry fans, because in this case losing increases the probability of winning in the long run. but now that they came out on top of a meaningless game, it sets the stage for the dreaded "what if" scenario. what if Travis Hunter turns out to be Deion on steroids? didja see the link i posted above? kid plays football and looks like he could win an NBA slam dunk competition. a complete and total freak he is. isn't that precisely what New England needs right now? now instead of possessing all the leverage and having to ability to pull the trigger on him if they decided to do so, they're now reduced to molesting a lucky rabbit's foot.
just wasn't worth it. potentially the worst win in the history of the franchise.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Agreed
Believe me Buffalo. wanted to. stick it to. us any way they could they were playing their 3rd stringers lol
this is true. we should have activated the practice squad
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Technically Mayo did what I was at least hoping for going into that game, he sat most of their better offensive players. Doing a quick check of who actually sat, these were the notable names...
Hunter Henry DNP
Rhamondre Stevenson DNP
Ja'Lynn Polk DNP
Christain Gonzalez - out with concussion but not sure if he could have played or not
Sidy Sow - out with injury but not sure if he could have played or not
Drake Maye played one series
Michael Onwenu played one series
Deathrich Wise Jr played roughly 20% of the defensive snaps
Davon Godcheaux played roughly 20% of the defensive snaps
Jonathan Jones, Kyle Dugger & Jahlani Tavai all played considerably less defensive snaps than usual
Credit to the players who DID play for playing with some pride, many of them were likely auditioning for roles/jobs in 2025.
Eric
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Very curious if it's going to. be Vrabel or not