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Pro and Con Opinions of buying a VaultBox

WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 30, 2023 9:02AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Have at it!

«13456

Comments

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey, it's a start! Thank you!😂🤣

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I thought this might tide you all over until actual forum members started posting their own results :)

    https://youtu.be/NvXxGaxoAjg

    Thank you! What a great video! This was so much fun to watch.

    I think it sums up perfectly what the average box will reveal and the feelings that new collectors will feel.😎🤣😂

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah. This one supposedly wasn't real, but who knows? It was, however, posted before the on sale date.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @jayPem said:
    Imagine you are a regular dude who just coughed up $1200 bucks for 6 ase.... ouch!

    WOW!!!!! EXACTLY as I predicted. On not one, but two boxes.

    I got all the vicarious thrill I needed just from watching this. I just hope anyone who was sitting on the fence considered what I had to say, and didn't try to order. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fun here. The only thing worse than paying $600 for those boxes would have been paying $1,000 or $1,200 for them on eBay. I wonder whether this will cool the secondary market for unopened boxes?

    This is what is going to be flooding the internet over the next week or so, with a few winners sprinkled in. Marking up the Instant Offers in your head by 50% doesn't mean that's what you got, unless you'd have gone out and bought those coins for those inflated prices, or unless you can get that for them on eBay (you can't).

    I just hope regular people get the winners, and those pre-release unboxing videos do not represent where the winners are going to end up.

    I found two things interesting in the video.
    1) The guy seemed to be fairly upbeat after getting two losing boxes
    2) The one coin I watched them scan, a 2006 PF 10 Silver Eagle, had an instant offer of $130. That is fairly strong since 2006 NGC PF 70s sell for $70-$100 on eBay. The eBay value of the first box might have been around $200; Vault Box seems to pay above that (if the other coins also have instant offers that are proportional to the 2006 PF 10). So despite losing overall, we at least have an idea that Vault Box isn't taking a cut on both the buy and sell side with lowballs on their instant offers (which you mentioned could be a possibility).

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    Yeah. This one supposedly wasn't real, but who knows? It was, however, posted before the on sale date.

    That one is different than the PWCC Marketplace "promo" video but it also appears to be fake. Same error too-the same two commons (9.9 2013 and 2014 bullion Eagles) plus one rare 2012 10 Gold (other video had a 2006 10 Gold). This video has comments turned off, which is another sign that there were potentially people calling him out and he decided to hide those.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 8:32PM

    @NJCoin said:

    @jayPem said:
    Imagine you are a regular dude who just coughed up $1200 bucks for 6 ase.... ouch!

    WOW!!!!! EXACTLY as I predicted. On not one, but two boxes.

    I got all the vicarious thrill I needed just from watching this. I just hope anyone who was sitting on the fence considered what I had to say, and didn't try to order. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fun here. The only thing worse than paying $600 for those boxes would have been paying $1,000 or $1,200 for them on eBay. I wonder whether this will cool the secondary market for unopened boxes?

    This is what is going to be flooding the internet over the next week or so, with a few winners sprinkled in. Marking up the Instant Offers in your head by 50% doesn't mean that's what you got, unless you'd have gone out and bought those coins for those inflated prices, or unless you can get that for them on eBay (you can't).

    I just hope regular people get the winners, and those pre-release unboxing videos do not represent where the winners are going to end up.

    OK, I guess this strongly suggests the boxes were completely random - 1 random coin from each of the 3 groups per box. NGC retail for those 2 boxes were $320 and $380. These values should happen 31% of the time if these are purely random. Really unfortunate for him that both were this. By buying 2, he doubled his chances of hitting one box with retail above price paid..................

    I honestly expected them to try to get the values of each box higher by a little bit of non-random packing so folks don't get hosed like this. Wow.


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  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @jayPem said:
    Imagine you are a regular dude who just coughed up $1200 bucks for 6 ase.... ouch!

    WOW!!!!! EXACTLY as I predicted. On not one, but two boxes.

    I got all the vicarious thrill I needed just from watching this. I just hope anyone who was sitting on the fence considered what I had to say, and didn't try to order. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fun here. The only thing worse than paying $600 for those boxes would have been paying $1,000 or $1,200 for them on eBay. I wonder whether this will cool the secondary market for unopened boxes?

    This is what is going to be flooding the internet over the next week or so, with a few winners sprinkled in. Marking up the Instant Offers in your head by 50% doesn't mean that's what you got, unless you'd have gone out and bought those coins for those inflated prices, or unless you can get that for them on eBay (you can't).

    I just hope regular people get the winners, and those pre-release unboxing videos do not represent where the winners are going to end up.

    I found two things interesting in the video.
    1) The guy seemed to be fairly upbeat after getting two losing boxes
    2) The one coin I watched them scan, a 2006 PF 10 Silver Eagle, had an instant offer of $130. That is fairly strong since 2006 NGC PF 70s sell for $70-$100 on eBay. The eBay value of the first box might have been around $200; Vault Box seems to pay above that (if the other coins also have instant offers that are proportional to the 2006 PF 10). So despite losing overall, we at least have an idea that Vault Box isn't taking a cut on both the buy and sell side with lowballs on their instant offers (which you mentioned could be a possibility).

    I dunno. The minimum value of the boxes was supposed to be at least $255, which is a huge haircut as it is, so I'd be surprised that it would actually be less.

    And then, I'd be surprised if they were offering above reasonable wholesale, since they said in a pre-release interview video that they were offering convenience, not necessarily the best buy back prices. I could see them going above market for the red cores in order to create a buzz, but not on 2,000+ common coins.

    Just no real way to know until we have more data points. The biggest joke was when he said $130 offer equals $200 retail, which led him to believe he was sitting on a $500 retail box for 3 coins he never even saw before, and had no organic interest in.

    If people like this, then VaultBox is on to something, and they will make a ton of money and probably attract a bunch of copycats. I'm just happy that there will be real videos out in the wild to counteract the over the top hype they created, and people will have an opportunity to see with their own eyes what they likely did not take the time to discover in the disclosures, which will lead to informed buying decisions.

    If I am correct, there won't be a market for these at 100% markups on eBay, and the website won't freeze at the next release, even if they end up with a successful franchise.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 8:42PM

    @spacehayduke said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @jayPem said:
    Imagine you are a regular dude who just coughed up $1200 bucks for 6 ase.... ouch!

    WOW!!!!! EXACTLY as I predicted. On not one, but two boxes.

    I got all the vicarious thrill I needed just from watching this. I just hope anyone who was sitting on the fence considered what I had to say, and didn't try to order. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fun here. The only thing worse than paying $600 for those boxes would have been paying $1,000 or $1,200 for them on eBay. I wonder whether this will cool the secondary market for unopened boxes?

    This is what is going to be flooding the internet over the next week or so, with a few winners sprinkled in. Marking up the Instant Offers in your head by 50% doesn't mean that's what you got, unless you'd have gone out and bought those coins for those inflated prices, or unless you can get that for them on eBay (you can't).

    I just hope regular people get the winners, and those pre-release unboxing videos do not represent where the winners are going to end up.

    OK, I guess this strongly suggests the boxes were completely random - 1 random coin from each of the 3 groups per box. NGC retail for those 2 boxes were $320 and $380. These values should happen 31% of the time if these are purely random. Really unfortunate for him that both were this. By buying 2, he doubled his chances of hitting one box with retail above price paid..................

    I honestly expected them to try to get the values of each box higher by a little bit of non-random packing so folks don't get hosed like this. Wow.

    I tried to tell anyone who would listen. They fully disclosed what they were doing, and the simplest reading of what people disclose is usually the correct interpretation. No one is getting all of the lowest value coins because no box is going to contain 3 Common coins. Period.

    Also, NGC retail is fiction. Those boxes are each worth in the low to mid $200s, even lower than I would have thought, because the values they assigned are even more inflated than I would have thought. If they are, in fact, buying back strong in order to build inventory and save a few bucks on grading fees for future series, maybe that's a way for disappointed gamblers to salvage something from it.

  • spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 8:37PM
  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After watching both videos it is apparent to me that this concept mimics the sports card hobby boxes and is catered to those collectors right down to the grading scale.

    I love the concept and those type of collectors are used to the gambling aspect and the thrill of opening a hot box that contains an item or items that are worth big bucks.

    More importantly, they are used to opening boxes that do not contain items worth more than the cost of the box so they will keep buying even if they get a dud box.

    This is going to be huge and instant sell outs moving forward short term until VaultBox makes the mistake of overproducing a series due to greed.

    I predict they will expand to smaller boxes to lower the price point to $200 for a box containing 1 coin....😎

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @U1chicago said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @jayPem said:
    Imagine you are a regular dude who just coughed up $1200 bucks for 6 ase.... ouch!

    WOW!!!!! EXACTLY as I predicted. On not one, but two boxes.

    I got all the vicarious thrill I needed just from watching this. I just hope anyone who was sitting on the fence considered what I had to say, and didn't try to order. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fun here. The only thing worse than paying $600 for those boxes would have been paying $1,000 or $1,200 for them on eBay. I wonder whether this will cool the secondary market for unopened boxes?

    This is what is going to be flooding the internet over the next week or so, with a few winners sprinkled in. Marking up the Instant Offers in your head by 50% doesn't mean that's what you got, unless you'd have gone out and bought those coins for those inflated prices, or unless you can get that for them on eBay (you can't).

    I just hope regular people get the winners, and those pre-release unboxing videos do not represent where the winners are going to end up.

    I found two things interesting in the video.
    1) The guy seemed to be fairly upbeat after getting two losing boxes
    2) The one coin I watched them scan, a 2006 PF 10 Silver Eagle, had an instant offer of $130. That is fairly strong since 2006 NGC PF 70s sell for $70-$100 on eBay. The eBay value of the first box might have been around $200; Vault Box seems to pay above that (if the other coins also have instant offers that are proportional to the 2006 PF 10). So despite losing overall, we at least have an idea that Vault Box isn't taking a cut on both the buy and sell side with lowballs on their instant offers (which you mentioned could be a possibility).

    I dunno. The minimum value of the boxes was supposed to be at least $255, which is a huge haircut as it is, so I'd be surprised that it would actually be less.

    And then, I'd be surprised if they were offering above reasonable wholesale, since they said in a pre-release interview video that they were offering convenience, not necessarily the best buy back prices. I could see them going above market for the red cores in order to create a buzz, but not on 2,000+ common coins.

    Just no real way to know until we have more data points. The biggest joke was when he said $130 offer equals $200 retail, which led him to believe he was sitting on a $500 retail box for 3 coins he never even saw before, and had no organic interest in.

    If people like this, then VaultBox is on to something, and they will make a ton of money and probably attract a bunch of copycats. I'm just happy that there will be real videos out in the wild to counteract the over the top hype they created, and people will have an opportunity to see with their own eyes what they likely did not take the time to discover in the disclosures, which will lead to informed buying decisions.

    If I am correct, there won't be a market for these at 100% markups on eBay, and the website won't freeze at the next release, even if they end up with a successful franchise.

    The retail value is higher than the 255 but the market value of that box is closer to 155. So I am surprised that the vault box offer is $130 on the one coin that would normally see offers of 50-70 from most coin dealers.

    And yes if enough people are able to convince themselves like this guy that the boxes were worth it, vault box won’t have an issue selling more.

  • wozymodowozymodo Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 9:09PM

    Yeah, having rewatched the PWCC Marketplace and Finest Known videos, I tend to agree with @U1chicago and @NJCoin. They're bogus. I have to question how YouTubers were able to obtain salted VaultBoxes pre-release, and I'm calling shenanigans on VaultBox!

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 9:50PM

    @SIowhand said:
    Why did a new thread get started to have the same arguments?

    For starters, now that the first video has hit, no one is arguing! It feels like most of the points that were being debated have been resolved, which only leaves the core issue of whether or not this is worth it. Which truly is in the eye of the beholder, now that everyone can see exactly what this is. At least for the vast majority of people.

    Before, all we had was a few videos showing gold coins being pulled, interviews talking about how low the margins were, and speculation over how the promoters were going to bend over backwards to create good value for all in order to build demand for future series. Mega hype led to mega demand for a very limited issue. Which led to an instant sell out, FOMO, and stupid premiums for a few boxes on eBay.

    Now reality has set in. There will be very few big winners, a few more small winners and people breaking even, and the vast majority of buyers losing a few hundred dollars each buying mostly slabbed silver bullion most people in our community have no interest in, since that's a market that was developed by the telemarketers.

    Now that the speculation is over and everyone understands the game, people will make informed decisions whether or not to participate, and there really is nothing more to argue about.

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SIowhand said:
    Why did a new thread get started to have the same arguments?

    Exactly. I was hoping we could get past the debate and move on to seeing the results of Series 1.

    Hopefully we will get posts when buyers get their boxes starting tomorrow.🤞

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WQuarterFreddie said:
    After watching both videos it is apparent to me that this concept mimics the sports card hobby boxes and is catered to those collectors right down to the grading scale.

    Except that no one is grading cards 9.9. I'm not sure what others do, but PSA goes straight from 9 to 10 in much the same way as we don't have a 69+ grade.

    I'd say a rough equivalent to MS in cards would be 7, 7.5, 8, 8.5, 9, and 10, except it is easy for a card untouched by human hands to be a 6 or a 6.5. Also, cards don't really "circulate".

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is an interesting post that someone shared on Facebook (I don't know the seller; I just saw someone else repost this on Instagram).

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .> @daltex said:

    @WQuarterFreddie said:
    After watching both videos it is apparent to me that this concept mimics the sports card hobby boxes and is catered to those collectors right down to the grading scale.

    Except that no one is grading cards 9.9. I'm not sure what others do, but PSA goes straight from 9 to 10 in much the same way as we don't have a 69+ grade.

    I'd say a rough equivalent to MS in cards would be 7, 7.5, 8, 8.5, 9, and 10, except it is easy for a card untouched by human hands to be a 6 or a 6.5. Also, cards don't really "circulate".

    I don't collect cards so I have no clue about the grading scale. To your point proof coins don't really circulate either but the older cards and coins did so there is that similarity.

    In my opinion, this new product will attract more sports card collectors than existing coin collectors and that was the point I was trying to convey.😎

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2023 10:27PM

    @U1chicago said:
    Here is an interesting post that someone shared on Facebook (I don't know the seller; I just saw someone else repost this on Instagram).

    WTF? How can the seller guarantee gold in the box unless he opened them already?🤔

  • spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WQuarterFreddie said:

    @U1chicago said:
    Here is an interesting post that someone shared on Facebook (I don't know the seller; I just saw someone else repost this on Instagram).

    WTF? How can the seller guarantee gold in the box unless he opened them already?🤔

    He really can't unless he has a way to detect the gold inside. Or he just knows that even if it's a 1/10th oz, it's still gold and he still doubles his money. If not get takes the box back. Other than that no idea.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:
    The retail value is higher than the 255 but the market value of that box is closer to 155. So I am surprised that the vault box offer is $130 on the one coin that would normally see offers of 50-70 from most coin dealers.

    NGC did the grading and the random selection from the three pools.

    Minshull Trading sets the offer price. Might it initially be a little higher than actual wholesale and then drift lower as the hype for wave 1 subsides? Why that might be just smart marketing. Might they recycle what they buy back into wave 2? Somebody should start a cert# list.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2023 8:10AM

    @ricko said:
    Lottery tickets are cheaper and about the same odds of winning something... Cheers, RickO

    Sorry to disagree, my friend.
    With losing lottery tickets. You toss them in the trash...
    My main point I forgot to address in my op.

    I doubt if anyone would toss the 3 coins into the trash.

    :)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • horseyridehorseyride Posts: 121 ✭✭✭

    Why wouldn't they offer more then normal value to buy back? They are making enough on the sale of the initial box, and so few people are going to take them up on the offer, that it's probably worth it to them to overinflate the buyback price to make you feel better about what you got

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me, the interesting part is that they said “the 1st round we’re gonna be working of SLIM margins and the next 2 rounds will be more profit built in”

    Seriously? These are “slim” margins? What can a wholesaler acquire graded silver eagles for, $30-$60 max depending on year? What does it cost them to cross to NGCX with a bulk deal, $15-20? I bet you could buy all 6 of those coins at retail on a $350 budget, instead this poor guy spent $1200. Then he manages to conceal his disappointment and turn his video into a sponsored ad for vaultbox by saying how cool and fun it is while his buddies are dying laughing because he got the worst possible outcome (or is it?)

    I’m a little intrigued by the $130 offer but we’ll need to see how that plays out. I imagine they need to try to create a market for these NGCx/vaultbox slabs in order to keep this project selling. If my box has coins like that I’d probably take their offer immediately and not even try to sell them on eBay, does their offer have an expiration?

    Regardless, there’s definitely more to come and we’ll have to compare the results of others. I guess I’m not the target demographic here. Speaking for myself only, I don’t see how opening a box and losing $300 is “fun”. Especially if one isn’t as fortunate as some of us to have disposable income like that.

  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joeykoins said:

    @ricko said:
    Lottery tickets are cheaper and about the same odds of winning something... Cheers, RickO

    Sorry to disagree, my friend.
    With losing lottery tickets. You toss them in the trash...
    :)

    But you throw away dollars not hundreds of dollars!

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The generous buy back offer is worth it for Valulbox.... to create the impression that it is a ready market, to help promote the next round. ALSO... the returned coin will be included in the next round..... saving ValutBox some money for less grading fees. The returns WILL be recycled!

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you are having fun with this game... and have the money to spare to toss into it.... then have your fun!

    But just like any form of gambling, the odds are for the house.

    ----- kj
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @joeykoins... That is true, but I have lost only a dollar, not several hundred dollars. And, I have won several hundred dollars on a lottery ticket... five times. Cheers, RickO

    I get it, RickO.
    ;)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "It's not if you win or lose but HOW you play the game."
    :*

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup said:
    The generous buy back offer is worth it for Valulbox.... to create the impression that it is a ready market, to help promote the next round. ALSO... the returned coin will be included in the next round..... saving ValutBox some money for less grading fees. The returns WILL be recycled!

    I’m impressed by the offer I will admit that. That’s a $60 coin. They could likely produce another one of those for $80 including slab fees, but they’ll buy it back for $130 like you said to make the market, even if they take a loss on that buyback they still made $70 off of it and will likely make $70 again on the next round. They will make so much more money if everyone keeps all of these coins rather than selling back.

  • nencoinnencoin Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I thought this might tide you all over until actual forum members started posting their own results :)

    Lol. Good stuff, Andy!

This discussion has been closed.