I'd add that I also collect comics and certain NFT platforms (veve, hro, dc/palm) have successfully managed to capture my attention & disposable income in recent years. IMO the coin industry has fallen flat on its face in capitalizing on the NFT / "minting" something of unknown value trend. I commend vaultbox in its attempt to bridge a gap to this world. Whether it results in more collectors or just more flippers. Time will tell. I was definitely hooked on coins after holding a 100 yr old morgan for the 1st time.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.. whose got an open box to share?
@silversurfr said:
been collecting for a long time.. used to do a lot of buying /selling on ebay until they changed tax laws which made it harder to feed my habbit.. vaultbox has certainly brought me back from the dead.. used to be fairly active on some now defunct boards. Stumbled across this one in the lead up to launch day while looking for info.. my opinion, is this an investment?, 100% no but nor is it a scam. But it is new and exciting for me. Certainly brought me out if the woodworks & I'm certainly not alone
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
I'm no legal expert. So cannot tell you whether it is an illegal lottery or not.
But.... in these times.... who cares? Lots of questionable practices are taking place... but no actions taking place against them. (counterfeits from China anyone??). Especially when there is money to be made... and the tax man gets his share.... these things tend to live on.
@ElKevvo said:
Just curious about the buyback rules...let's say in a few months someone shows up at a show with 3 VB coins and since they need cash now are willing to part with them below the VB buyback price. Can the buyer send them back and make a profit or do they need to show maybe the original invoice or ??
K
I am sure they will buy them back from anyone, since nothing is preventing these from being bought and sold, both opened and unopened. The catch is going to be that the Instant Offer prices are going to be dynamic, both up and down, and it will be unlikely that anyone holding one of these won't know how to go on the website and get a quote.
After that, if someone wants to sell for immediate cash, nothing will stop them from doing so, but one would imagine that the spread wouldn't be any higher than what it would cost to get a cash advance on a credit card for a week or two for however much money that person would need.
@silversurfr said:
I'd add that I also collect comics and certain NFT platforms (veve, hro, dc/palm) have successfully managed to capture my attention & disposable income in recent years. IMO the coin industry has fallen flat on its face in capitalizing on the NFT / "minting" something of unknown value trend. I commend vaultbox in its attempt to bridge a gap to this world. Whether it results in more collectors or just more flippers. Time will tell. I was definitely hooked on coins after holding a 100 yr old morgan for the 1st time.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.. whose got an open box to share?
I do comics also! Glad to find a kindred spirit. Any particular specialty?
Btw, at the end of the s-show that was this drop I somehow had 2 orders of 2. 1st 1 shipped, 2nd was just voided for exceding max. If you missed out, might be worth checking site to see if more are released.
@silversurfr said:
Btw, at the end of the s-show that was this drop I somehow had 2 orders of 2. 1st 1 shipped, 2nd was just voided for exceding max. If you missed out, might be worth checking site to see if more are released.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't know why people have to dump on someone else's fun. It's a big world, there's room for everyone if some people would just tolerate the nontraditional.
One of the complaints is that money spent on things like Vaultbox comes out of overall spending on coins. If you're opposed to the idea of Vaultbox, those dollars being spent by others are not going towards supporting the value of the coins you do collect.
@jmlanzaf said:
Vaultbox is playing out exactly as described and advertised. The repeated use of the S word is inappropriate and offensive. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. I don't know why people have to dump on someone else's fun. It's a big world, there's room for everyone if some people would just tolerate the nontraditional.
Virtually everyone on this forum collects in a way that I never would. If i wanted to make even more friends, I could explain my (rational) disagreement with your method. I don't. Because if you're having fun, that's all that matters.
[Note: Admittedly, i do argue against the use of "investment" in the discussion. But that's mostly because i think it gets in the way of the fun.]
@SIowhand said:
I’ve completely changed my tune on this. Watching that video reminded me of the times I was a kid opening 10c packs of Topps baseball cards.
This is just the adult version of that.
And you never know, it might even spawn some lifelong coin collectors.
Yes, it may.
Now go outside and play. Don't place your baseball cards in your spokes on your bike, either.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@tincup said:
I'm no legal expert. So cannot tell you whether it is an illegal lottery or not.
But.... in these times.... who cares? Lots of questionable practices are taking place... but no actions taking place against them. (counterfeits from China anyone??). Especially when there is money to be made... and the tax man gets his share.... these things tend to live on.
Grab bag selling is not illegal and this is just another grab bag type thing. Anyone can come up with a different grab bag idea and do the same thing.
I do not know where the IRS steps in though. If you go to a casino or win a government lottery. Everything over a set amount is recorded and reported to the IRS. I guess if you get the $23,000 coin you are supposed to report it to the IRS. I think that the seller is supposed to report it also. You may be right, there may be something illegal going on. Perhaps a tax expert can explain this.
@tincup said:
I'm no legal expert. So cannot tell you whether it is an illegal lottery or not.
But.... in these times.... who cares? Lots of questionable practices are taking place... but no actions taking place against them. (counterfeits from China anyone??). Especially when there is money to be made... and the tax man gets his share.... these things tend to live on.
Grab bag selling is not illegal and this is just another grab bag type thing. Anyone can come up with a different grab bag idea and do the same thing.
I do not know where the IRS steps in though. If you go to a casino or win a government lottery. Everything over a set amount is recorded and reported to the IRS. I guess if you get the $23,000 coin you are supposed to report it to the IRS. I think that the seller is supposed to report it also. You may be right, there may be something illegal going on. Perhaps a tax expert can explain this.
The IRS steps in the same way it does with any other collectible transaction. The seller is reporting income of $595 per box, and takes as a deduction the cost of whatever went into the boxes, plus marketing, overhead, etc. Just like any other sale.
Buyers are supposed to report income when they sell, not when they pull a gold coin out of the box. And they, too, get to deduct what they paid for the coin.
This is not illegal, because these guys are too big and sophisticated to not know the law. They have made all the necessary disclosures and are delivering the right amount of value in every box to distinguish this from a lottery, although that's really what it is when you strip away the nominally valued slabbed bullion from the purchase price, and calculate just how much of each $595 is going toward profit for the seller and a shot at a handful of high value coins.
@jmlanzaf said:
Vaultbox is playing out exactly as described and advertised. The repeated use of the S word is inappropriate and offensive. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. I don't know why people have to dump on someone else's fun. It's a big world, there's room for everyone if some people would just tolerate the nontraditional.
Virtually everyone on this forum collects in a way that I never would. If i wanted to make even more friends, I could explain my (rational) disagreement with your method. I don't. Because if you're having fun, that's all that matters.
[Note: Admittedly, i do argue against the use of "investment" in the discussion. But that's mostly because i think it gets in the way of the fun.]
@Lazybones said:
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
Nope. They can sell the coins back to VaultBox and not have to deal with those crooked dealers!😂🤣
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
My response to you is look how many Agrees I have to my post compared to your response.
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
My response to you is look how many Agrees I have to my post compared to your response.
I feel sorry for your bathroom mirror...🙄
My mirror is just fine, but I'll be sure to pass on your expression of concern.
The fact that 7 fellow cheerleaders also want to extinguish opposing points of view means nothing to me. I am not posting for their benefit, or for yours.
@tincup said:
I'm no legal expert. So cannot tell you whether it is an illegal lottery or not.
I don't really know anything about the people who run Vaultbox. Maybe they just came up with the idea and ran with it without any thought of legal issues. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have been able to convince NGC to link their name and reputation to Vaultbox without NGC running it by their lawyers though.
@vplite99 said:
I'm sure many of us are following the eBay offerings. I see six offerings and I have not seen one sold yet. Has anyone observed anything different?
A couple have dropped the price, but no takers.
There were a few takers a few days ago, as high as $1,200, as some people gripped by FOMO couldn't control themselves. Now that people can see just what this is, rather than being limited to only seeing people pull gold coins on YouTube, while there is probably still interest at $600, this is going to be a very tough sale at $1,000+.
What will be interesting will be to see if anyone dumps them on eBay at anything close to $600 rather than keeping them for the "fun" of the pull.
Does anyone know whether the eBay seller of the 2006 W PROOF GOLD 1 OZ EAGLE G$50 NGCX VAULTBOX SERIES 1 PF 10 ULTRA CAMEO is in any way connected to PWCC, where it was unboxed on January 16th, 9 days before the on-sale date, and where they later backtracked and said it was a sample box and that the coin was still available to be pulled?
The fact that it's been sitting on eBay for a few days now calls into question whether it is the same coin that was in the unboxing video, since most boxes were not delivered before the coin was listed on eBay. Just like the boxes were not officially placed on sale before they posted their unboxing video.
Does anyone here think anyone else is really going to pull a 2006 W PROOF GOLD 1 OZ EAGLE G$50 NGCX VAULTBOX SERIES 1 PF 10 ULTRA CAMEO from a VaultBox? If not, what would that say about this entire enterprise? And, even if so, what would that mean to the label chasers thinking the label is a 1 of 1, when, in fact, multiples are floating around?
@ElKevvo said:
Regarding the buyback price I am sure some here remember the plate craze of the 70's and the main seller of the plates, Bradford Exchange, actually set up a 'trading floor' in order to convince buyers that there was liquidity in the plate market. Of course there really was none and tens of thousands of plates are languishing in folks basements and attics.
The buyback of the coins might be generous but if you give me $300.00 for a $100.00 coin and I guarantee if you don't like it I'll give you $150.00 for that $100.00 coin, I'll do that all day long!
K
That's a good point. It would be interesting to calculate the buy back price for an "average" VaultBox. It might not be quite $400 but my guesstimate is $350.
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
My response to you is look how many Agrees I have to my post compared to your response.
I feel sorry for your bathroom mirror...🙄
My mirror is just fine, but I'll be sure to pass on your expression of concern.
The fact that 7 fellow cheerleaders also want to extinguish opposing points of view means nothing to me. I am not posting for their benefit, or for yours.
Oh yeah. I forgot. You WERE posting in the other thread to warn everyone about the huge mistake YOU believed they were making.🙄 Then everyone got tired of you and the thread tanked to oblivion so you decided you missed us.
Now you are HERE to prove you were right. Got it.
To be clear. It's not your views I oppose, it's your repetition of your views and how you express them with novella like fashion with posts that are TLDR.🙄
@ElKevvo said:
Regarding the buyback price I am sure some here remember the plate craze of the 70's and the main seller of the plates, Bradford Exchange, actually set up a 'trading floor' in order to convince buyers that there was liquidity in the plate market. Of course there really was none and tens of thousands of plates are languishing in folks basements and attics.
The buyback of the coins might be generous but if you give me $300.00 for a $100.00 coin and I guarantee if you don't like it I'll give you $150.00 for that $100.00 coin, I'll do that all day long!
K
That's a good point. It would be interesting to calculate the buy back price for an "average" VaultBox. It might not be quite $400 but my guesstimate is $350.
It's well over that based on the quotes we've had.
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
My response to you is look how many Agrees I have to my post compared to your response.
I feel sorry for your bathroom mirror...🙄
My mirror is just fine, but I'll be sure to pass on your expression of concern.
The fact that 7 fellow cheerleaders also want to extinguish opposing points of view means nothing to me. I am not posting for their benefit, or for yours.
Oh yeah. I forgot. You WERE posting in the other thread to warn everyone about the huge mistake YOU believed they were making.🙄 Then everyone got tired of you and the thread tanked to oblivion so you decided you missed us.
Now you are HERE to prove you were right. Got it.
To be clear. It's not your views I oppose, it's your repetition of your views and how you express them with novella like fashion with posts that are TLDR.🙄
Even though you have a million years experience as an eBay expert, do you need me to show you how to Ignore someone?
Once you master that, you won't have to deal with anyone whose "repetition of [their] views and how [they] express them with novella like fashion with posts that are TLDR."
Anyone can do the same. Then, people like me can communicate with anyone who is interested, while not annoying anyone who is not. Give it a whirl.
If I may—few people disagree with either half, with legible text, logical points, support for those points and all. The mania is disagreeable to almost all.
@ElKevvo said:
Regarding the buyback price I am sure some here remember the plate craze of the 70's and the main seller of the plates, Bradford Exchange, actually set up a 'trading floor' in order to convince buyers that there was liquidity in the plate market. Of course there really was none and tens of thousands of plates are languishing in folks basements and attics.
The buyback of the coins might be generous but if you give me $300.00 for a $100.00 coin and I guarantee if you don't like it I'll give you $150.00 for that $100.00 coin, I'll do that all day long!
K
That's a good point. It would be interesting to calculate the buy back price for an "average" VaultBox. It might not be quite $400 but my guesstimate is $350.
It's well over that based on the quotes we've had.
For sure. Probably $500 average on what I've seen. What that number actually is though? Only VaultBox knows.
@cameonut2011 said:
Let’s play devil’s advocate here: Why aren’t the people defending Vault Box here not defending HSN and the cable circuit “coin dealers?”
Because they are not friends, or friends of friends, with them?
@Fraz said:
Because he’s not novel. We’ve watched his rosacea ebb and flow for eons.
I found your comment humorous, but I don’t know who specifically you’re talking about. Would you mind enlightening those of us who haven’t been around for a while? Who is “he”?
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the folks in marketing are getting the results they expected. Lots of free exposure regardless of content. It's definitely bringing attention to the product. I decided not to buy this time around. Maybe next time if they add some early coins to the mix. I just wouldn't want to own anything they are offering inside the mystery box.
@NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
I hope there are many more who become interested in coins again or are new to the hobby.
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Why graded by 'our host'? What is wrong with NGCX which is what they are doing?
@wozymodo said: @NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
What do you make of that? That there are now at least 3 of them, or that something was going on with the camera angle in the close-up.
The mere fact that they are playing games, and things are not as they are represented to be, is enough to keep skeptics looking for a reason not to participate away. And true believers have the ability to rationalize and dismiss anything, so why should any of this matter to them?
@wozymodo said: @NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
I hope there are many more who become interested in coins again or are new to the hobby.
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Why graded by 'our host'? What is wrong with NGCX which is what they are doing?
Because, at least for now, NGCX is limiting itself to post-1981 moderns. And because most people here are PCGS fanboys, and prefer them to the competition.
As you know, I'm not a fan. But, if it continues to be successful, it will surely spawn imitators. And as has observed by a few people here, no TPG is above being involved with something like this if the right opportunity presents itself.
@wozymodo said: @NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
This is disturbing.................
Agreed. Mind you, that coin was listed early yesterday. My box was sent out with 2 day shipping, was expected yesterday afternoon, and is now delayed until Monday. I do find it a little strange how that particular coin, the same coin in the “promotional” unboxing (disclosed after the fact), was the FIRST vaultbox coin to go up on eBay bright and early Friday morning before most people got their boxes.
@J2035 said:
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Your prayers have 'almost' been answered. Here is a 6 pack of modern Morgans and Peace in NGCX 10 holders! All blast white and all semi-key!!
Mind you, that coin was listed early yesterday. My box was sent out with 2 day shipping, was expected yesterday afternoon, and is now delayed until Monday. I do find it a little strange how that particular coin, the same coin in the unboxing, was the FIRST vaultbox coin to go up on eBay bright and early Friday morning before most people got their boxes.
Ah ok, but still given this coin, first out on ebay before most boxes delivered, still fairly fishy and concerning..................
@cameonut2011 said:
Let’s play devil’s advocate here: Why aren’t the people defending Vault Box here defending HSN and the cable circuit “coin dealers” in other threads?
Mind you, that coin was listed early yesterday. My box was sent out with 2 day shipping, was expected yesterday afternoon, and is now delayed until Monday. I do find it a little strange how that particular coin, the same coin in the unboxing, was the FIRST vaultbox coin to go up on eBay bright and early Friday morning before most people got their boxes.
Ah ok, but still given this coin, first out on ebay before most boxes delivered, still fairly fishy and concerning..................
My post may have been unclear by my wording, but I was agreeing with you, strongly. I was emphasizing how strange it was for THAT coin to be listed so early when it was unlikely that most of the boxes had even been delivered yet.
@wozymodo said: @NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
This is disturbing.................
I believe the eBay example (2nd photo) and the screen shot from the "unboxing" (1st photo) look the same. The close-up (third photo) was a mock-up to show better detail and they messed up the label (like Apmex is known to do in their listings with some hilarious results, like a PCGS label on an NGC slab).
@J2035 said:
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Your prayers have 'almost' been answered. Here is a 6 pack of modern Morgans and Peace in NGCX 10 holders! All blast white and all semi-key!!
I’d like to see classic coins - not 2021 Morgans. Over time, the vaultbox crowd can be steered toward classics just like dealers work to convert their bullion customers to classic (US Coins in Houston talks about this a bit in their podcasts). It’s about expanding the market.
Mind you, that coin was listed early yesterday. My box was sent out with 2 day shipping, was expected yesterday afternoon, and is now delayed until Monday. I do find it a little strange how that particular coin, the same coin in the unboxing, was the FIRST vaultbox coin to go up on eBay bright and early Friday morning before most people got their boxes.
Ah ok, but still given this coin, first out on ebay before most boxes delivered, still fairly fishy and concerning..................
My post may have been unclear by my wording, but I was agreeing with you, strongly. I was emphasizing how strange it was for THAT coin to be listed so early when it was unlikely that most of the boxes had even been delivered yet.
Totally. In addition, does anyone know anything about kearneycc? Clearly a dealer, probably with some connection to PWCC, if not an alt for PWCC itself. Not just a rando who stumbled onto a "sample" coin that was supposed to either go back into a sealed box for random distribution to the masses, or be returned to VB.
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I'd add that I also collect comics and certain NFT platforms (veve, hro, dc/palm) have successfully managed to capture my attention & disposable income in recent years. IMO the coin industry has fallen flat on its face in capitalizing on the NFT / "minting" something of unknown value trend. I commend vaultbox in its attempt to bridge a gap to this world. Whether it results in more collectors or just more flippers. Time will tell. I was definitely hooked on coins after holding a 100 yr old morgan for the 1st time.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.. whose got an open box to share?
Love this
I'm not complaining, you won't be posting any results, and neither will the vast majority of people posting here. Cheerleaders are welcome but naysayers are not? If you feel strongly that only posts with pulls from these boxes should be allowed, that really is going to have to enforced uniformly. Not just against me and others whose views you don't appreciate.
I haven't hijacked anything, and don't care why you started this thread, since you don't control the forum. At the time of this response, my posts constitute 19 out of 159 posts in this thread. It only seems like I hijacked it because you are focused on me. Which is flattering.
If you want to see results, figure out how Google and YouTube work, and stop obsessing on what I post. If you want to control who posts what where, you're going to need to start your own forum and then attract a following. Otherwise, maybe develop a little tolerance for opposing points of view.
I'm no legal expert. So cannot tell you whether it is an illegal lottery or not.
But.... in these times.... who cares? Lots of questionable practices are taking place... but no actions taking place against them. (counterfeits from China anyone??). Especially when there is money to be made... and the tax man gets his share.... these things tend to live on.
I am sure they will buy them back from anyone, since nothing is preventing these from being bought and sold, both opened and unopened. The catch is going to be that the Instant Offer prices are going to be dynamic, both up and down, and it will be unlikely that anyone holding one of these won't know how to go on the website and get a quote.
After that, if someone wants to sell for immediate cash, nothing will stop them from doing so, but one would imagine that the spread wouldn't be any higher than what it would cost to get a cash advance on a credit card for a week or two for however much money that person would need.
I do comics also! Glad to find a kindred spirit. Any particular specialty?
Btw, at the end of the s-show that was this drop I somehow had 2 orders of 2. 1st 1 shipped, 2nd was just voided for exceding max. If you missed out, might be worth checking site to see if more are released.
Nope.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
One of the complaints is that money spent on things like Vaultbox comes out of overall spending on coins. If you're opposed to the idea of Vaultbox, those dollars being spent by others are not going towards supporting the value of the coins you do collect.
So there's that.
I’ve completely changed my tune on this. Watching that video reminded me of the times I was a kid opening 10c packs of Topps baseball cards.
This is just the adult version of that.
And you never know, it might even spawn some lifelong coin collectors.
P.T. Barnum would be proud.
Yes, it may.
Now go outside and play. Don't place your baseball cards in your spokes on your bike, either.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Grab bag selling is not illegal and this is just another grab bag type thing. Anyone can come up with a different grab bag idea and do the same thing.
I do not know where the IRS steps in though. If you go to a casino or win a government lottery. Everything over a set amount is recorded and reported to the IRS. I guess if you get the $23,000 coin you are supposed to report it to the IRS. I think that the seller is supposed to report it also. You may be right, there may be something illegal going on. Perhaps a tax expert can explain this.
Glad to see it.
The IRS steps in the same way it does with any other collectible transaction. The seller is reporting income of $595 per box, and takes as a deduction the cost of whatever went into the boxes, plus marketing, overhead, etc. Just like any other sale.
Buyers are supposed to report income when they sell, not when they pull a gold coin out of the box. And they, too, get to deduct what they paid for the coin.
This is not illegal, because these guys are too big and sophisticated to not know the law. They have made all the necessary disclosures and are delivering the right amount of value in every box to distinguish this from a lottery, although that's really what it is when you strip away the nominally valued slabbed bullion from the purchase price, and calculate just how much of each $595 is going toward profit for the seller and a shot at a handful of high value coins.
Thank you for sharing the results of your box! I am looking forward to seeing the coins and your feedback.
Sending you positive vibes for a box that you are happy with after opening. 😎🤞
Enjoy your weekend!
Nope. They can sell the coins back to VaultBox and not have to deal with those crooked dealers!😂🤣
My response to you is look how many Agrees I have to my post compared to your response.
I feel sorry for your bathroom mirror...🙄
My mirror is just fine, but I'll be sure to pass on your expression of concern.
The fact that 7 fellow cheerleaders also want to extinguish opposing points of view means nothing to me. I am not posting for their benefit, or for yours.
I don't really know anything about the people who run Vaultbox. Maybe they just came up with the idea and ran with it without any thought of legal issues. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have been able to convince NGC to link their name and reputation to Vaultbox without NGC running it by their lawyers though.
I'm sure many of us are following the eBay offerings. I see six offerings and I have not seen one sold yet. Has anyone observed anything different?
A couple have dropped the price, but no takers.
There were a few takers a few days ago, as high as $1,200, as some people gripped by FOMO couldn't control themselves. Now that people can see just what this is, rather than being limited to only seeing people pull gold coins on YouTube, while there is probably still interest at $600, this is going to be a very tough sale at $1,000+.
What will be interesting will be to see if anyone dumps them on eBay at anything close to $600 rather than keeping them for the "fun" of the pull.
Does anyone know whether the eBay seller of the 2006 W PROOF GOLD 1 OZ EAGLE G$50 NGCX VAULTBOX SERIES 1 PF 10 ULTRA CAMEO is in any way connected to PWCC, where it was unboxed on January 16th, 9 days before the on-sale date, and where they later backtracked and said it was a sample box and that the coin was still available to be pulled?
The fact that it's been sitting on eBay for a few days now calls into question whether it is the same coin that was in the unboxing video, since most boxes were not delivered before the coin was listed on eBay. Just like the boxes were not officially placed on sale before they posted their unboxing video.
Does anyone here think anyone else is really going to pull a 2006 W PROOF GOLD 1 OZ EAGLE G$50 NGCX VAULTBOX SERIES 1 PF 10 ULTRA CAMEO from a VaultBox? If not, what would that say about this entire enterprise? And, even if so, what would that mean to the label chasers thinking the label is a 1 of 1, when, in fact, multiples are floating around?
That's a good point. It would be interesting to calculate the buy back price for an "average" VaultBox. It might not be quite $400 but my guesstimate is $350.
Oh yeah. I forgot. You WERE posting in the other thread to warn everyone about the huge mistake YOU believed they were making.🙄 Then everyone got tired of you and the thread tanked to oblivion so you decided you missed us.
Now you are HERE to prove you were right. Got it.
To be clear. It's not your views I oppose, it's your repetition of your views and how you express them with novella like fashion with posts that are TLDR.🙄
It's well over that based on the quotes we've had.
Even though you have a million years experience as an eBay expert, do you need me to show you how to Ignore someone?
Once you master that, you won't have to deal with anyone whose "repetition of [their] views and how [they] express them with novella like fashion with posts that are TLDR."
Anyone can do the same. Then, people like me can communicate with anyone who is interested, while not annoying anyone who is not. Give it a whirl.
If I may—few people disagree with either half, with legible text, logical points, support for those points and all. The mania is disagreeable to almost all.
Let’s play devil’s advocate here: Why aren’t the people defending Vault Box here defending HSN and the cable circuit “coin dealers” in other threads?
Edited:Double negative
Because he’s not novel. We’ve watched his rosacea ebb and flow for eons.
For sure. Probably $500 average on what I've seen. What that number actually is though? Only VaultBox knows.
The minimum seems to be around $250.
Because they are not friends, or friends of friends, with them?
I found your comment humorous, but I don’t know who specifically you’re talking about. Would you mind enlightening those of us who haven’t been around for a while? Who is “he”?
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(ios autocorrupts it to my sack.)
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the folks in marketing are getting the results they expected. Lots of free exposure regardless of content. It's definitely bringing attention to the product. I decided not to buy this time around. Maybe next time if they add some early coins to the mix. I just wouldn't want to own anything they are offering inside the mystery box.
the old saying just another way to part fools with their cash comes to mind , sorry if i want to gamble i'll go to a casino
see i like to see what i'm buying with my cash not guessing at what it could be
2003-present
1997-present
@NJCoin For the record, same cert / same label (note crease at bottom right)
Interesting that close-up image in video shows the same cert with a different label
Wow, I watched that video.
So many catch phrases used
Brilliant marketing idea
I hand pick every coin I buy so I would never use such a service.
Why graded by 'our host'? What is wrong with NGCX which is what they are doing?
What do you make of that? That there are now at least 3 of them, or that something was going on with the camera angle in the close-up.
The mere fact that they are playing games, and things are not as they are represented to be, is enough to keep skeptics looking for a reason not to participate away. And true believers have the ability to rationalize and dismiss anything, so why should any of this matter to them?
This is disturbing.................
Because, at least for now, NGCX is limiting itself to post-1981 moderns. And because most people here are PCGS fanboys, and prefer them to the competition.
As you know, I'm not a fan. But, if it continues to be successful, it will surely spawn imitators. And as has observed by a few people here, no TPG is above being involved with something like this if the right opportunity presents itself.
Agreed. Mind you, that coin was listed early yesterday. My box was sent out with 2 day shipping, was expected yesterday afternoon, and is now delayed until Monday. I do find it a little strange how that particular coin, the same coin in the “promotional” unboxing (disclosed after the fact), was the FIRST vaultbox coin to go up on eBay bright and early Friday morning before most people got their boxes.
Edited for clarity
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Your prayers have 'almost' been answered. Here is a 6 pack of modern Morgans and Peace in NGCX 10 holders! All blast white and all semi-key!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175566985468?hash=item28e09b98fc:g:1FsAAOSwDSxjvHF3&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoHgh2EtTAQEihrrAoUKW6vCA93CTwST+A6xxWkiC+mWJc9sVXFDn20uFMLRJDShfF7l+XCHLqaGNJCR2ids7j3TfLbMh70GhZziHDQqeAXgdHbfAxEPVww0xSnaRU1r7q+UR7nbuRVSuI8dqyJQMVruZ56sJE8MsJ5jhy9OG4fGmQViQAklK3HKewrajQ/5w/Eh2SolwY6mv0FXa7AHZqzc=|tkp:Bk9SR7ju0aG_YQ
Ah ok, but still given this coin, first out on ebay before most boxes delivered, still fairly fishy and concerning..................
I do.
My post may have been unclear by my wording, but I was agreeing with you, strongly. I was emphasizing how strange it was for THAT coin to be listed so early when it was unlikely that most of the boxes had even been delivered yet.
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I believe the eBay example (2nd photo) and the screen shot from the "unboxing" (1st photo) look the same. The close-up (third photo) was a mock-up to show better detail and they messed up the label (like Apmex is known to do in their listings with some hilarious results, like a PCGS label on an NGC slab).
I’d like to see classic coins - not 2021 Morgans. Over time, the vaultbox crowd can be steered toward classics just like dealers work to convert their bullion customers to classic (US Coins in Houston talks about this a bit in their podcasts). It’s about expanding the market.
Totally. In addition, does anyone know anything about kearneycc? Clearly a dealer, probably with some connection to PWCC, if not an alt for PWCC itself. Not just a rando who stumbled onto a "sample" coin that was supposed to either go back into a sealed box for random distribution to the masses, or be returned to VB.