@ms71 said:
Checking retail on the three pieces w/current eBay BINs: 2016 MS69 = $54.95. 1986 S PF69 UC = $109.99. 1986 AGE 1/4 oz MS69 = $699.99. Total retail = $864.93. The instant offer of $743 is about 86% of these retail prices. The comparison makes no allowance for whatever value the Vault Box Series 1 labels may add.
FWIW, not only for this, but for anything on eBay, the proper metric is completed sales, NOT BINS. BINS are what the TV guys use to show what great deals they are offering, and we all know they cannot possibly offer great deals, given what TV time and production costs. Until a BIN results in a sale, it is meaningless.
And keep in mind that I am saying this as someone who is not a fan of this product.
You mean- "I don't like it, so it's a scam?" Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.
Hey man, some people love throwing away money at Casinos, some like lottery tickets, and plenty like games of chance of various kinds. Maybe "scam" isn't the correct term, but it is most definitely a marketing gimmick in which most people will lose money in terms of the value of the box contents. Call it what you will.
Are casinos and lottery tickets scams?
Definition of a scam:
scam
noun [ C ]
an illegal plan for making money, especially one that involves tricking people:
Are you saying that is what the Vaultbox people are doing?
@dsessom said:
Did you not see this part? "Maybe "scam" isn't the correct term, but it is most definitely a marketing gimmick."
What's wrong with that?
@dsessom said:
It's apparent that you don't care what I say. You simply want to argue. Call it whatever you like. By the way, Mason, how many VaultBoxes did you buy?
It's also apparent that you don't care what I say.
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
I think I get it now. After watching the couple of videos of people opening them and listening to what they are saying - this really has nothing to do with coins.
Sorry guys. I wish I could contribute and show you my unboxing as it was scheduled to be delivered today and I made my girlfriend stay home all day, but mine is now delayed by FedEx for not 1, but 3 days In Memphis. Really annoying when they shipped out the order immediately and now the delay is longer than the total expected shipping time.
@dsessom said:
Did you not see this part? "Maybe "scam" isn't the correct term, but it is most definitely a marketing gimmick."
It's apparent that you don't care what I say. You simply want to argue. Call it whatever you like. By the way, Mason, how many VaultBoxes did you buy?
How about marketing strategy? Some who buy VB's will make money, around 20%, the rest lose or if lucky, close to breaking even. It is a risk and that appeals to many. No different than risking on certain types of stocks, crypto, art, and on and on. So each needs to decide if they want to take that risk for a potential payoff. This is a free country, if one wants to risk, go for it, if not, buy Tesla or Rivian and let's see............
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
@SIowhand said:
I think I get it now. After watching the couple of videos of people opening them and listening to what they are saying - this really has nothing to do with coins.
Correct. Coins are the vehicle to make the lottery legal. Same as cards.
Which is why I truly do not believe that their stated goal will pan out. Card collectors drawn to coins, as many of us are, get here on our own, without the gambling element.
I don't believe that the folks drawn to the card pull, who are drawn to this, will care about the coins any more after pulling 3 ASEs than before. They are gambling $600 for a shot at $23,000. Either the novelty will wear off for them, or it won't. They'll sell their treasure back to VB, and VB will continue to print money until this plays itself out.
It's not meant for us and, notwithstanding the cheerleaders defending it because they are defending a fellow dealer, most actual collectors are not going to be drawn to a mystery box with an expected payout less than the purchase price. If anyone didn't fully grasp the concept before, they surely will now that the videos are popping up.
Some will make between a few hundred and a few thousand. The vast majority will lose a few hundred, and end up with coins most established collectors have absolutely no interest in. Ooooohh, a shiny 2017 one ounce silver bullion coin! 9.9. That's almost perfect! And another one that's even more shiny. Pretty. Oh, a third one.
Wow. I just lost $300, if I'm lucky. Where can I get more?? From people who won't pay $5 to attend a coin show, or complain about how much a CDN subscription costs? 🤣
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
@DeplorableDan said:
Sorry guys. I wish I could contribute and show you my unboxing as it was scheduled to be delivered today and I made my girlfriend stay home all day, but mine is now delayed by FedEx for not 1, but 3 days In Memphis. Really annoying when they shipped out the order immediately and now the delay is longer than the total expected shipping time.
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
Lol
I knew this was going to happen if Shaun got a RedCore! Lol
I know Shaun, he really is a stand up honest guy. No shenanigans, believe me.
If I'm not mistaken, I think the odds of catching a Red Core in one box is 6 to 1?
Not bad statistics. He got one and I'm happy for the guy.
Good going Shaun!
Platinum Baby.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
Lol
I knew this was going to happen if Shaun got a RedCore! Lol
I know Shaun, he really is a stand up honest guy. No shenanigans, believe me.
If I'm not mistaken, I think the odds of catching a Red Core in one box is 6 to 1?
Not bad statistics. He got one and I'm happy for the guy.
Good going Shaun!
Platinum Baby.
The implication isn't that Shaun did anything. It is that the vault box people had an incentive to send him a better box based on his large viewership. No one can prove that they did though so it is all speculation.
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
Lol
I knew this was going to happen if Shaun got a RedCore! Lol
I know Shaun, he really is a stand up honest guy. No shenanigans, believe me.
If I'm not mistaken, I think the odds of catching a Red Core in one box is 6 to 1?
Not bad statistics. He got one and I'm happy for the guy.
Good going Shaun!
Platinum Baby.
The implication isn't that Shaun did anything. It is that the vault box people had an incentive to send him a better box based on his large viewership. No one can prove that they did though so it is all speculation.
This ^^^. It's just a bad look. Which is why, if they cared about how things looked, they wouldn't have allowed insiders to participate. Especially since they promoted the hell out of it and demand far exceeded supply, so it's not like they needed people like Shaun to buy a box to ensure a sell out.
And then, if they don't care about this, what else don't they care about?
I'm not familiar with pwcc but a quick googler tells me eBay tossed them for shill bidding. And knowing eBay, it was probably a healthy loss in income so the shilling was significant enough for eBay to take action. A big black eye if I interpret eBay as I do.
Why would VB want to be in business with pwcc? Birds of a feather? Possibly.
@NJCoin said:
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all?
Did you ask them? What did they say?
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
Can the haters set up their own thread, please.. personally, I'm super excited to get my box(s) Monday. It's been a minute since there's been anything interesting in the world of coins. And clearly this has peaked people interest and/or vitriol..
@U1chicago said: @jeffas1974 that is the same guy who did the interview with one of the vault box owners. It is a very interesting coincidence that he got a winner.
I don’t believe in coincidences (maybe I’m too cynical/jaded) but the more expensive/profitable box(es) going to an insider/promoter and/or affiliate is a major red flag.
@streeter said:
I'm not familiar with pwcc but a quick googler tells me eBay tossed them for shill bidding. And knowing eBay, it was probably a healthy loss in income so the shilling was significant enough for eBay to take action. A big black eye if I interpret eBay as I do.
Why would VB want to be in business with pwcc?
I have no knowledge of the facts alleged but if accurate, it is another major red flag.
The implication isn't that Shaun did anything. It is that the vault box people had an incentive to send him a better box based on his large viewership. No one can prove that they did though so it is all speculation.
Even though, I don't know these owners like I know Shaun. I still firmly believe. They are on the up and up too! Call me naive, call me gullible. In my humble opinion, I believe these guys are just trying to start something different and new in the coin business like so many others have in this industry! Past and/or present. Now if the owners are pulling a fast one. Well, they, like us all. Will have to meet our maker in the end.
Nobody gets away with anything!
My 2 cents
Good Luck everyone.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@silversurfr said:
Can the haters set up their own thread, please.. personally, I'm super excited to get my box(s) Monday. It's been a minute since there's been anything interesting in the world of coins. And clearly this has peaked people interest and/or vitriol..
I share your enthusiasm. I think this is one of the most interesting periods for coins in years, if not decades. NGCX and the concerted effort of major retailers too promote coins to non- collectors has exciting possibilities.
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Vaultbox is playing out exactly as described and advertised. The repeated use of the S word is inappropriate and offensive. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. I don't know why people have to dump on someone else's fun. It's a big world, there's room for everyone if some people would just tolerate the nontraditional.
Virtually everyone on this forum collects in a way that I never would. If i wanted to make even more friends, I could explain my (rational) disagreement with your method. I don't. Because if you're having fun, that's all that matters.
[Note: Admittedly, i do argue against the use of "investment" in the discussion. But that's mostly because i think it gets in the way of the fun.]
@Lazybones said:
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
One aspect of what makes the vault box interesting is that the vault box people themselves are offering strong buy back offers on their own coins. Much stronger prices than a b&m coin shop would offer.
Wish the vault box people would offer those prices on the same silver eagles in NGC 69 & 70 holders. Is the greysheet gonna have to make two price values for X coins and non X coins (for example price that perfect 2006 proof silver eagle as $80 in NGC pf70, and $130 in NGC pf10, because there is an active buy offer on that X coin at $130)?
@Lazybones said:
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
One aspect of what makes the vault box interesting is that the vault box people themselves are offering strong buy back offers on their own coins. Much stronger prices than a b&m coin shop would offer.
Wish the vault box people would offer those prices on the same silver eagles in NGC 69 & 70 holders. Is the greysheet gonna have to make two price values for X coins and non X coins (for example price that perfect 2006 proof silver eagle as $80 in NGC pf70, and $130 in NGC pf10, because there is an active buy offer on that X coin at $130)?
Vault Box has unique holders. Their offer wouldn't apply to all coins of the type.
@Lazybones said:
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
One aspect of what makes the vault box interesting is that the vault box people themselves are offering strong buy back offers on their own coins. Much stronger prices than a b&m coin shop would offer.
Wish the vault box people would offer those prices on the same silver eagles in NGC 69 & 70 holders. Is the greysheet gonna have to make two price values for X coins and non X coins (for example price that perfect 2006 proof silver eagle as $80 in NGC pf70, and $130 in NGC pf10, because there is an active buy offer on that X coin at $130)?
Vault Box has unique holders. Their offer wouldn't apply to all coins of the type.
So a coin graded vault box 10 is valued differently than a ngcx 10. I understand it’s a unique label, but I kinda don’t comprehend the difference in price yet. Just something I’ve gotta get used to I suppose.
@Lazybones said:
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
One aspect of what makes the vault box interesting is that the vault box people themselves are offering strong buy back offers on their own coins. Much stronger prices than a b&m coin shop would offer.
Wish the vault box people would offer those prices on the same silver eagles in NGC 69 & 70 holders. Is the greysheet gonna have to make two price values for X coins and non X coins (for example price that perfect 2006 proof silver eagle as $80 in NGC pf70, and $130 in NGC pf10, because there is an active buy offer on that X coin at $130)?
Vault Box has unique holders. Their offer wouldn't apply to all coins of the type.
So a coin graded vault box 10 is valued differently than a ngcx 10. I understand it’s a unique label, but I kinda don’t comprehend the difference in price yet. Just something I’ve gotta get used to I suppose.
It may or may not be valued differently. But the VaultBox bid applies only to their coins and so such a bid would not be used by any price guide to determine the value of other coins of the same type.
Virtually everyone on this forum collects in a way that I never would. If i wanted to make even more friends, I could explain my (rational) disagreement with your method. I don't. Because if you're having fun, that's all that matters.
No doubt. My dad runs around to like 5 banks every week looking for treasure, which I find silly.. meanwhile he this my obsession with engelhard silver bars is ridiculous
@silversurfr said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. lets go red core. No whammies!!
Welcome to the forum! I see that you have just joined a few days ago, perhaps to participate with the vaultbox discussion. If you don’t mind my asking, were you collecting coins prior to the Vaultbox launch? I’m just wondering if you might be a crossover collector that we were told this would bring into the hobby.
Either way, this forum is a great place to learn and good luck with your box 🙂
been collecting for a long time.. used to do a lot of buying /selling on ebay until they changed tax laws which made it harder to feed my habbit.. vaultbox has certainly brought me back from the dead.. used to be fairly active on some now defunct boards. Stumbled across this one in the lead up to launch day while looking for info.. my opinion, is this an investment?, 100% no but nor is it a scam. But it is new and exciting for me. Certainly brought me out if the woodworks & I'm certainly not alone
Regarding the buyback price I am sure some here remember the plate craze of the 70's and the main seller of the plates, Bradford Exchange, actually set up a 'trading floor' in order to convince buyers that there was liquidity in the plate market. Of course there really was none and tens of thousands of plates are languishing in folks basements and attics.
The buyback of the coins might be generous but if you give me $300.00 for a $100.00 coin and I guarantee if you don't like it I'll give you $150.00 for that $100.00 coin, I'll do that all day long!
@silversurfr said:
been collecting for a long time.. used to do a lot of buying /selling on ebay until they changed tax laws which made it harder to feed my habbit.. vaultbox has certainly brought me back from the dead.. used to be fairly active on some now defunct boards. Stumbled across this one in the lead up to launch day while looking for info.. my opinion, is this an investment?, 100% no but nor is it a scam. But it is new and exciting for me. Certainly brought me out if the woodworks & I'm certainly not alone
Well that’s good to hear, the product is what it is. My concern was that when the smoke cleared, if this was going to be a positive impact on the hobby as a whole. Looking forward to hearing more stories like that, and I’m glad that if nothing else, it brought you out of hibernation!
I hope there are many more who become interested in coins again or are new to the hobby.
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Just curious about the buyback rules...let's say in a few months someone shows up at a show with 3 VB coins and since they need cash now are willing to part with them below the VB buyback price. Can the buyer send them back and make a profit or do they need to show maybe the original invoice or ??
You mean- "I don't like it, so it's a scam?" Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.
Hey man, some people love throwing away money at Casinos, some like lottery tickets, and plenty like games of chance of various kinds. Maybe "scam" isn't the correct term, but it is most definitely a marketing gimmick in which most people will lose money in terms of the value of the box contents. Call it what you will.
Are casinos and lottery tickets scams?
Definition of a scam:
scam
noun [ C ]
an illegal plan for making money, especially one that involves tricking people:
Are you saying that is what the Vaultbox people are doing?
Yes,
The legal definition of a lottery (which is illegal except where permitted by law, i.e. the government's lottery):
Consideration
Prize
Random Chance
3 for 3 = illegal lottery
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Comments
And yet you all can't stay away from this thread!😂🤣
FWIW, not only for this, but for anything on eBay, the proper metric is completed sales, NOT BINS. BINS are what the TV guys use to show what great deals they are offering, and we all know they cannot possibly offer great deals, given what TV time and production costs. Until a BIN results in a sale, it is meaningless.
And keep in mind that I am saying this as someone who is not a fan of this product.
Are casinos and lottery tickets scams?
Definition of a scam:
scam
noun [ C ]
an illegal plan for making money, especially one that involves tricking people:
Are you saying that is what the Vaultbox people are doing?
This thread holds interest. I prefer tragicomedy, though. But I can bounce for you here.
>
Did you not see this part? "Maybe "scam" isn't the correct term, but it is most definitely a marketing gimmick."
It's apparent that you don't care what I say. You simply want to argue. Call it whatever you like. By the way, Mason, how many VaultBoxes did you buy?
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
Another unboxing video for the group. What are the odds that a numismatic YouTuber with over 300,000 followers would receive a box with a red core?
@jeffas1974 that is the same guy who did the interview with one of the vault box owners. It is a very interesting coincidence that he got a winner.
What's wrong with that?
It's also apparent that you don't care what I say.
I didn't buy any. How about you?
Not only that, but he says in the video that he conducted an interview with them and called it a Catch-22. It sure is, and this is one of the red flags I previously identified.
No way to know whether or not they did anything wrong, but the suspicion they were going to allow related party transactions made me uncomfortable, and this is exactly why.
Given how tough these were to get, and their stated desire to achieve wide distribution (household limit of 2), why was it necessary to allow insiders to buy any at all? So that videos like this would be posted to generate demand for the next series? To reward friends and family? No reason at all?
I think I get it now. After watching the couple of videos of people opening them and listening to what they are saying - this really has nothing to do with coins.
Sorry guys. I wish I could contribute and show you my unboxing as it was scheduled to be delivered today and I made my girlfriend stay home all day, but mine is now delayed by FedEx for not 1, but 3 days In Memphis. Really annoying when they shipped out the order immediately and now the delay is longer than the total expected shipping time.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
How about marketing strategy? Some who buy VB's will make money, around 20%, the rest lose or if lucky, close to breaking even. It is a risk and that appeals to many. No different than risking on certain types of stocks, crypto, art, and on and on. So each needs to decide if they want to take that risk for a potential payoff. This is a free country, if one wants to risk, go for it, if not, buy Tesla or Rivian and let's see............
Weren't they easier to get on PWCC?
Correct. Coins are the vehicle to make the lottery legal. Same as cards.
Which is why I truly do not believe that their stated goal will pan out. Card collectors drawn to coins, as many of us are, get here on our own, without the gambling element.
I don't believe that the folks drawn to the card pull, who are drawn to this, will care about the coins any more after pulling 3 ASEs than before. They are gambling $600 for a shot at $23,000. Either the novelty will wear off for them, or it won't. They'll sell their treasure back to VB, and VB will continue to print money until this plays itself out.
It's not meant for us and, notwithstanding the cheerleaders defending it because they are defending a fellow dealer, most actual collectors are not going to be drawn to a mystery box with an expected payout less than the purchase price. If anyone didn't fully grasp the concept before, they surely will now that the videos are popping up.
Some will make between a few hundred and a few thousand. The vast majority will lose a few hundred, and end up with coins most established collectors have absolutely no interest in. Ooooohh, a shiny 2017 one ounce silver bullion coin! 9.9. That's almost perfect! And another one that's even more shiny. Pretty. Oh, a third one.
Wow. I just lost $300, if I'm lucky. Where can I get more?? From people who won't pay $5 to attend a coin show, or complain about how much a CDN subscription costs? 🤣
????
Riot delay?
Lets us know if any Silver Eagles are spotted.
Did you ask them? What did they say?
That's well above wholesale for 69s with a melt value of $530. As MasonG notes above $743 is roughly retail for those 3 pieces.
Nope. I'm asking the forum.
I have no idea. I'm not a customer of PWCC.
There's a link on their website if you have questions. I mean- if you're really interested in getting an answer straight from the horse's mouth. Just think- if you ask them and they don't answer, you can complain about that, too. Bonus!
Now that they are out, and everyone can see exactly what they are, and who is getting what, I've got no complaints. I'm just sitting back waiting for your unboxing video, since you seem to be one of their biggest fanboys.
Lol
I knew this was going to happen if Shaun got a RedCore! Lol
I know Shaun, he really is a stand up honest guy. No shenanigans, believe me.
If I'm not mistaken, I think the odds of catching a Red Core in one box is 6 to 1?
Not bad statistics. He got one and I'm happy for the guy.
Good going Shaun!
Platinum Baby.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.The implication isn't that Shaun did anything. It is that the vault box people had an incentive to send him a better box based on his large viewership. No one can prove that they did though so it is all speculation.
This ^^^. It's just a bad look. Which is why, if they cared about how things looked, they wouldn't have allowed insiders to participate. Especially since they promoted the hell out of it and demand far exceeded supply, so it's not like they needed people like Shaun to buy a box to ensure a sell out.
And then, if they don't care about this, what else don't they care about?
I'm not familiar with pwcc but a quick googler tells me eBay tossed them for shill bidding. And knowing eBay, it was probably a healthy loss in income so the shilling was significant enough for eBay to take action. A big black eye if I interpret eBay as I do.
Why would VB want to be in business with pwcc? Birds of a feather? Possibly.
Really? That is all you have done and continue to do is complain about VaultBox. I started this thread because you hijacked the other thread. Now you come to this thread and hijack this one.
This thread was created for members to post their results NOT for you to continue with your endless negative opinions.
We all know you don't like VaultBox. Please stop.
Can the haters set up their own thread, please.. personally, I'm super excited to get my box(s) Monday. It's been a minute since there's been anything interesting in the world of coins. And clearly this has peaked people interest and/or vitriol..
I don’t believe in coincidences (maybe I’m too cynical/jaded) but the more expensive/profitable box(es) going to an insider/promoter and/or affiliate is a major red flag.
I have no knowledge of the facts alleged but if accurate, it is another major red flag.
Anyone weighing their boxes before opening? I'm certainly going to. I'll report back Monday
Even though, I don't know these owners like I know Shaun. I still firmly believe. They are on the up and up too! Call me naive, call me gullible. In my humble opinion, I believe these guys are just trying to start something different and new in the coin business like so many others have in this industry! Past and/or present. Now if the owners are pulling a fast one. Well, they, like us all. Will have to meet our maker in the end.
Nobody gets away with anything!
My 2 cents
Good Luck everyone.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Do I have to post the man in the foolscap?
I share your enthusiasm. I think this is one of the most interesting periods for coins in years, if not decades. NGCX and the concerted effort of major retailers too promote coins to non- collectors has exciting possibilities.
I can't wait to see what's next.
And THIS is the reason non-collectors think coin dealers are crooks. Because after they pay $1200 and decide they'd rather have their money, they take it to a B&M where they're only offered a fraction of what they paid which is the actual value.
These POS scammers do a terrific job of ruining the hobby and give numismatics an undeserved black eye.
Just my 2¢
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Vaultbox is playing out exactly as described and advertised. The repeated use of the S word is inappropriate and offensive. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. I don't know why people have to dump on someone else's fun. It's a big world, there's room for everyone if some people would just tolerate the nontraditional.
Virtually everyone on this forum collects in a way that I never would. If i wanted to make even more friends, I could explain my (rational) disagreement with your method. I don't. Because if you're having fun, that's all that matters.
[Note: Admittedly, i do argue against the use of "investment" in the discussion. But that's mostly because i think it gets in the way of the fun.]
One aspect of what makes the vault box interesting is that the vault box people themselves are offering strong buy back offers on their own coins. Much stronger prices than a b&m coin shop would offer.
Wish the vault box people would offer those prices on the same silver eagles in NGC 69 & 70 holders. Is the greysheet gonna have to make two price values for X coins and non X coins (for example price that perfect 2006 proof silver eagle as $80 in NGC pf70, and $130 in NGC pf10, because there is an active buy offer on that X coin at $130)?
Vault Box has unique holders. Their offer wouldn't apply to all coins of the type.
So a coin graded vault box 10 is valued differently than a ngcx 10. I understand it’s a unique label, but I kinda don’t comprehend the difference in price yet. Just something I’ve gotta get used to I suppose.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. lets go red core. No whammies!!
It may or may not be valued differently. But the VaultBox bid applies only to their coins and so such a bid would not be used by any price guide to determine the value of other coins of the same type.
No doubt. My dad runs around to like 5 banks every week looking for treasure, which I find silly.. meanwhile he this my obsession with engelhard silver bars is ridiculous
Welcome to the forum! I see that you have just joined a few days ago, perhaps to participate with the vaultbox discussion. If you don’t mind my asking, were you collecting coins prior to the Vaultbox launch? I’m just wondering if you might be a crossover collector that we were told this would bring into the hobby.
Either way, this forum is a great place to learn and good luck with your box 🙂
Founder- Peak Rarities
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been collecting for a long time.. used to do a lot of buying /selling on ebay until they changed tax laws which made it harder to feed my habbit.. vaultbox has certainly brought me back from the dead.. used to be fairly active on some now defunct boards. Stumbled across this one in the lead up to launch day while looking for info.. my opinion, is this an investment?, 100% no but nor is it a scam. But it is new and exciting for me. Certainly brought me out if the woodworks & I'm certainly not alone
Regarding the buyback price I am sure some here remember the plate craze of the 70's and the main seller of the plates, Bradford Exchange, actually set up a 'trading floor' in order to convince buyers that there was liquidity in the plate market. Of course there really was none and tens of thousands of plates are languishing in folks basements and attics.
The buyback of the coins might be generous but if you give me $300.00 for a $100.00 coin and I guarantee if you don't like it I'll give you $150.00 for that $100.00 coin, I'll do that all day long!
K
Well that’s good to hear, the product is what it is. My concern was that when the smoke cleared, if this was going to be a positive impact on the hobby as a whole. Looking forward to hearing more stories like that, and I’m glad that if nothing else, it brought you out of hibernation!
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@silversurfr - welcome!
I hope there are many more who become interested in coins again or are new to the hobby.
I would really like to see a greater variety of boxes - how about 3 blast white morgans graded by our host with an occasional key or semi-key date (CC?) thrown in? Or a Morgan, Peace and Eisenhower with an occasional seated liberty included? Possibilities are endless.
Just curious about the buyback rules...let's say in a few months someone shows up at a show with 3 VB coins and since they need cash now are willing to part with them below the VB buyback price. Can the buyer send them back and make a profit or do they need to show maybe the original invoice or ??
K
Yes,
The legal definition of a lottery (which is illegal except where permitted by law, i.e. the government's lottery):
3 for 3 = illegal lottery
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")