Fake and Counterfeit coins. Avoid them by buying a slabbed PCGS or NGC coin! Now fake slabs makes it difficult to have any faith in the genuineness of a coin. What to do?
@slider23 said:
It appears that this counterfeiter may also be making the CAC sticker.
Sticker from 1951 S Franklin
Sticker from Genuine PCGS Holder
That might be the 1951-S I imaged when found out it was fake. I have not posted my photos yet but it is an amazingly good fake. And yes that CAC sticker is also a fake with just a couple minor tells.
@blu62vette said:
That might be the 1951-S I imaged when found out it was fake. I have not posted my photos yet but it is an >amazingly good fake. And yes that CAC sticker is also a fake with just a couple minor tells.
Hard to tell with those photos given the difference could just be lighting
Mark Robinton, Vice President of IoT Services, Identification Technologies with HID Global, explains, “The NFC chip contains a uniform resource locator (URL) that generates a unique, cryptographic one-time password (OTP) that changes every time the chip is tapped. This password is validated by the HID Trusted Tag® Cloud Authentication service to prove that it is the exact same tag that was issued with the slab.”
The chest feathers on the eagle for both the 01 and the 04-S are way too sharp. I have never seen that kind of detail for either of these dates. Also, the mintmark on the 04-S is the wrong style….way too small. Either way, I find all of this to be very very disturbing 😩😕
While learning to grade is a nice idea, the reality is there are a lot of overgraded-or "market acceptable for that day" coins that are in higher holders.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
The barcode and QR code are generated from the cert number and the front and back labels are printed. The labels are not a copy from the original holder. The hologram strip on the back label is very well done. The CAC sticker is a fake.
@slider23 said:
It appears that this counterfeiter may also be making the CAC sticker.
Sticker from 1951 S Franklin
Sticker from Genuine PCGS Holder
That might be the 1951-S I imaged when found out it was fake. I have not posted my photos yet but it is an amazingly good fake. And yes that CAC sticker is also a fake with just a couple minor tells.
To alert more people to the double threat, would it be useful to modify the thread title? For example:
The Newer Fake PCGS holders and CAC stickers are one of the latest Hobby Threats...
If I were PCGS, I would try to track down the seller and get the scumbag arrested for fraud. Maybe even get the Feds to shut down the source of the slabs - this could hurt the market significantly. Also, if PCGS has any influence through their China operation, I would think their China customers would want this crap shut down.
@Zoins said:
Thanks for the post @burfle23. I'm disappointed, but unfortunately not surprised.
Makes me feel better about prioritizing coins with TrueViews, even common ones like this MS64 I picked up. Lack of a TrueView is a big negative for me.
Here's another MS64 that just sold. With so many coins out there, for many coins, but not all, I can just wait for a coin with a TrueView.
@burfle23 said:
Another unfortunately purchased by my same dealer friend; he did get authorization to return this one...
Can you ask him 1) how the CAC sticker compares to authentic examples and 2) if the slab has the etched lettering on the bottom edge?
I looked through some coins here and only saw the etched lettering on gold shield coins, they seem to avoid those.
The etched lettering does also appear on at least some non-gold shield slabs. I have two different previous submissions that were not gold shield and both have the slab lettering. Also the slab lettering on my submission is the same on all the slabs (same code on each slab). The two submission did have different lettering from each other but were submitted months apart.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
So the rare dates are being faked by either "photoshop" image tricks, or by sandwiching different coins together (I assume the latter).
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
So the rare dates are being faked by either "photoshop" image tricks, or by sandwiching different coins together (I assume the latter).
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
So the rare dates are being faked by either "photoshop" image tricks, or by sandwiching different coins together (I assume the latter).
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
So the rare dates are being faked by either "photoshop" image tricks, or by sandwiching different coins together (I assume the latter).
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
I think what I am missing is your ability to identify a US Mint struck coin side,
vs. a Chinese die struck coin.
Looking at a lot of coins over many years I can usually tell, just from thumbnail pictures.
Also, the "1886-O" coin from the other thread looks cleaned on the reverse, but not on the obverse. So a difference in appearance from one side to the other is also a tell.
My takeaways include: 1) yes, opt for trueviews 2) opt for coins with identifiable marks —not prime choice perfect coins 3) opt for AU or worse, as a corollary —wear patterns impossible to replicate 4) lastly, perhaps opt for lesser slabs or no slabs at all.
And of course, some combinations of the above.
The fake PCGS slabs can do real damage.
The collector learning how to grade for his or herself is the best thing to do. I learned how to grade long ago, The con man is not going to fool me with his overgraded, overpriced coin in a fake slab.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
So the rare dates are being faked by either "photoshop" image tricks, or by sandwiching different coins together (I assume the latter).
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
@mr1874 said:
The collector learning how to grade for his or herself is the best thing to do. I learned how to grade long ago, The con man is not going to fool me with his overgraded, overpriced coin in a fake slab.
I'm shocked when I see a current holder without TV...it's $5!
At the same time, to protect their business credibility and the market PCGS should include this very basic imaging as part of their grading fees.
I disagree. All new holders do contain the NFC technology. No one needs hundreds of thousands of photos of modern ASEs and the like, even if their photography team was several times as large as it is now (which is what would be needed to accommodate the additional volume).
@DelawareDoons said:
Here's what I'd do; Exactly what PCGS already does with European-submitted Secure coins.
EuroViews!
PCGS Hong Kong does the same:
So the question is would people pay extra to add these?
I'm shocked when I see a current holder without TV...it's $5!
At the same time, to protect their business credibility and the market PCGS should include this very basic imaging as part of their grading fees.
What’s an acceptable price to raise the grading fee by to include this?
No way to come to a consensus but if they can do TVs for $5, I think $1-2 for a basic slab shot is reasonable.
And @P0CKETCHANGE , agreed, but I was thinking of the other coins that have more numismatic value as have been shown as examples in this thread. Maybe basic slab shots of everything except moderns?
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
.
Let me reiterate ...
All of the scarce-date Morgan Dollars shown in this thread were struck by the US Mint.
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
.
I appreciate your thoughts on this one but offer another possibility!
I own one of the TPG certified "1872-S" seated half dollars; the coin is struck from dies made from different coins. The obverse is a Philly 1872 by die state, the reverse an 1875-S and the reed count of the edge 1876...
@DelawareDoons said:
It was just a matter of time before they cleaned up the font and placement issues. There's yet another reason why I prefer old holders, and will only buy new PCGS holders with TV's. I can pick out fake coins easy, but real coins in a high quality fake holder? Eh...
I've begun to wonder how many fake slabs are in my collection. But I don't want to look. This is one more reason to stop buying coins. Or is it?
If you were to send all of the PCGS slabbed coins back to PCGS would they be 100% guaranteed to pick out any slabs which might be non-PCGS? How should they go about identifying the slabs as genuine from here on out?
@thebigeng said:
Amazing info can anyone do a side by side comparison with PUPS and labels saying fake slab...real slab...?
RE: Counterfeit PCGS Holders.
The counterfeiter to date has only counterfeited the PCGS 6.0 blue and white label on the front and the reverse has the QR code. There is an easy pick up point on the reverse of the holder. When printing the the reverse label where the G connects to the line through PCGS, there is darker ink on all of the counterfeit slabs. See counterfeit slab below note the area circled in yellow. There are other PUP on the fake holder, but I am not going to give that information up at this time. The above information is a quick check if you are buying a 6.0 version PCGS holder. All the reverse counterfeit slabs in this thread and the other counterfeit slab thread have the same darker ink area. On a genuine holder the darker area is usually the same color, but some genuine holders have a darker tint in the same area.
This is old news.
The counterfeiters have been particularly interested in OGH/CAC because there are no TrueViews.
Collectors think they are getting a "pre-gradflation" holder & a bean.
All the numbers match & the code will scan.
All the coins I've seen are obvious but that doesn't keep people from buying them.
There is a really long thread about this over at CoinTalk.
I had noticed previously on the reverse label how the letters do not connect to the gold cross bar like the original. Appears this reverse label is a little more difficult than it appears.
@ReadyFireAim said:
This is old news.
The counterfeiters have been particularly interested in OGH/CAC because there are no TrueViews.
Collectors think they are getting a "pre-gradflation" holder & a bean.
All the numbers match & the code will scan.
All the coins I've seen are obvious but that doesn't keep people from buying them.
There is a really long thread about this over at CoinTalk.
I wonder how many forum members are directly affected by this?
There can certainly be an indirect effect if the entire market is affected, but I wonder how many people here buy the kinds of coins that are targeted.
I'm shocked when I see a current holder without TV...it's $5!
At the same time, to protect their business credibility and the market PCGS should include this very basic imaging as part of their grading fees.
I disagree. All new holders do contain the NFC technology. No one needs hundreds of thousands of photos of modern ASEs and the like, even if their photography team was several times as large as it is now (which is what would be needed to accommodate the additional volume).
@pocketchange we are in agreement that the True View is not needed for security with NFC technology. As a buyer of PCGS holders, I would like a consistency of photos. When looking at a online photo from different sellers (eBay, auction house, dealer website, etc.), the consistency of photos leaves a lot to be desired. If all future classic coins had a Ture View photo, it would help when purchasing PCGS plastic online.
@ReadyFireAim said:
This is old news.
The counterfeiters have been particularly interested in OGH/CAC because there are no TrueViews.
Collectors think they are getting a "pre-gradflation" holder & a bean.
All the numbers match & the code will scan.
All the coins I've seen are obvious but that doesn't keep people from buying them.
There is a really long thread about this over at CoinTalk.
I wonder how many forum members are directly affected by this?
There can certainly be an indirect effect if the entire market is affected, but I wonder how many people here buy the kinds of coins that are targeted.
I think the even bigger threat is to people like me who are still learning to grade and are drawn to the supposed security of the TPG slabs and beans... They can be very alluring to novices and this is all quite disconcerting.
If I spend thousands or even hundreds on a coin and later want to sell it to only find out its a fake, that will crush us smaller investors/collectors, and could cause people like me to shy away from what would otherwise be a legitimate sale from more established collectors like many here.
Ultimately as I see it, it will hurt the smaller guys first, but if it becomes too prolific a problem could hurt the bigger guys ultimately by shrinking the overall market through trust concerns/issues. Just like I found out that the gold Indians are the most counterfeited coin and now am much more leery of purchasing them unless they are slabbed or its a reliable source...
Comments
Seems like a WHOLE LOT of ....."steps above raw" .......are proving to be true hurdles.
NOT good news!
Fake and Counterfeit coins. Avoid them by buying a slabbed PCGS or NGC coin! Now fake slabs makes it difficult to have any faith in the genuineness of a coin. What to do?
Can you ask him 1) how the CAC sticker compares to authentic examples and 2) if the slab has the etched lettering on the bottom edge?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
That might be the 1951-S I imaged when found out it was fake. I have not posted my photos yet but it is an amazingly good fake. And yes that CAC sticker is also a fake with just a couple minor tells.
Probably why they focus on the ones with QR codes and the QR codes are functional.
Hard to tell with those photos given the difference could just be lighting
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Those sold on GC are not showing in the auction results on the cert page. This is a good reason for them to start allowing PCGS to note these.
It seems a lot of the bad coins weakly struck on eagles breast. Counterfeit?
chip is "most likely" also made in the PRoC???
I don't know anything about it but remembered reading about it. This was probably it. Link and one description from it.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/security-chip-slabs
Mark Robinton, Vice President of IoT Services, Identification Technologies with HID Global, explains, “The NFC chip contains a uniform resource locator (URL) that generates a unique, cryptographic one-time password (OTP) that changes every time the chip is tapped. This password is validated by the HID Trusted Tag® Cloud Authentication service to prove that it is the exact same tag that was issued with the slab.”
and the launch announcement
https://www.pcgs.com/news/groundbreaking-nfc-technology-included-in-all-holders
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
The chest feathers on the eagle for both the 01 and the 04-S are way too sharp. I have never seen that kind of detail for either of these dates. Also, the mintmark on the 04-S is the wrong style….way too small. Either way, I find all of this to be very very disturbing 😩😕
While learning to grade is a nice idea, the reality is there are a lot of overgraded-or "market acceptable for that day" coins that are in higher holders.
These are the best fakes I have ever seen and ones that are really scary.
In terms of only dealing with reputable sellers- well sure. However- go to a coin show and look at 50 double row boxes of coins to buy from and there is no way in heck the buyer looks up all possible info and matches pictures etc.. just way to time consuming
There is a very simple tel
What is PUP's?
@slider23 PUP is the acronym for pick up points, which are known details of an authentic coin. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
So much to think about. Thanks to all who contributed to this cogent subject. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
The barcode is exactly the same also.
That's a $5,500 coin. How did he know "its" a fake?
The barcode and QR code are generated from the cert number and the front and back labels are printed. The labels are not a copy from the original holder. The hologram strip on the back label is very well done. The CAC sticker is a fake.
To alert more people to the double threat, would it be useful to modify the thread title? For example:
The Newer Fake PCGS holders and CAC stickers are one of the latest Hobby Threats...
I looked through some coins here and only saw the etched lettering on gold shield coins, they seem to avoid those.
If I were PCGS, I would try to track down the seller and get the scumbag arrested for fraud. Maybe even get the Feds to shut down the source of the slabs - this could hurt the market significantly. Also, if PCGS has any influence through their China operation, I would think their China customers would want this crap shut down.
Here's another MS64 that just sold. With so many coins out there, for many coins, but not all, I can just wait for a coin with a TrueView.
Amazing info can anyone do a side by side comparison with PUPS and lables saying fake slab...real slab...?
The etched lettering does also appear on at least some non-gold shield slabs. I have two different previous submissions that were not gold shield and both have the slab lettering. Also the slab lettering on my submission is the same on all the slabs (same code on each slab). The two submission did have different lettering from each other but were submitted months apart.
Previous threads:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1055671/so-what-s-the-serial-type-number-etched-onto-the-bottom-of-slabs-mean
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1009420/interesting-alpha-code-on-slab-edge#latest
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Do the fake slabs exhibit such etching?
Is this one of the places selling them?
https://pinncio.com/products/1875-cc-seated-liberty-half-dollar?fbclid=IwAR0cnu9iCxkLNMTzBzveQ5_090HcNB8GI32oVOA3lMx7m_fNdAom7m8Np40_aem_ATC6qLVe7j_31HvxT25pADJQFkJdArla_dHshxMSja6S1dPi-LIln6fZCKVtVde34sm2w7Ocyz1Bdp0Hxw-mBHPVe07nuGIi8OCLp1INP2HSmwArXYx3R1MXW1CXOl4wXqQ
Mr_Spud
This is a frightening thread.
.
Let me reiterate ...
However, somebody has taken common-date coins, ground off one side, and mated the remaining halves together to create the illusion of scarce date and mint-mark combinations. Once encased in the fake holders, it is difficult to see the seam on the edge where the halves were joined.
.
In your post on July 25, you wrote:
Are you more certain now? (Your wording above suggests this).
Have you seen any of these in hand and seen the seam?
I agree it is a good theory, as it is a relatively cheap way to make the obverse/reverse combination.
But there are also Chinese die struck counterfeits; probably also fairly cheap.
I wasn't sure until the buyer of one such coin posted in this thread pictures of what they actually received :
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13294845#Comment_13294845
The coin is in a fake PCGS holder. It has an 1886 obverse, but a O-mint reverse from 1901-1904.
PCGS Hong Kong does the same:
Smitten with DBLCs.
I think what I am missing is your ability to identify a US Mint struck coin side,
vs. a Chinese die struck coin.
Looking at a lot of coins over many years I can usually tell, just from thumbnail pictures.
Also, the "1886-O" coin from the other thread looks cleaned on the reverse, but not on the obverse. So a difference in appearance from one side to the other is also a tell.
My takeaways include: 1) yes, opt for trueviews 2) opt for coins with identifiable marks —not prime choice perfect coins 3) opt for AU or worse, as a corollary —wear patterns impossible to replicate 4) lastly, perhaps opt for lesser slabs or no slabs at all.
And of course, some combinations of the above.
The fake PCGS slabs can do real damage.
The collector learning how to grade for his or herself is the best thing to do. I learned how to grade long ago, The con man is not going to fool me with his overgraded, overpriced coin in a fake slab.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Very cool @dcarr ; I always look for the opportunity to learn through these type of posts...
Good to watch out for the sandwiches too!
So the question is would people pay extra to add these?
I'm shocked when I see a current holder without TV...it's $5!
At the same time, to protect their business credibility and the market PCGS should include this very basic imaging as part of their grading fees.
What’s an acceptable price to raise the grading fee by to include this?
@lermish said:
I disagree. All new holders do contain the NFC technology. No one needs hundreds of thousands of photos of modern ASEs and the like, even if their photography team was several times as large as it is now (which is what would be needed to accommodate the additional volume).
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
No way to come to a consensus but if they can do TVs for $5, I think $1-2 for a basic slab shot is reasonable.
And @P0CKETCHANGE , agreed, but I was thinking of the other coins that have more numismatic value as have been shown as examples in this thread. Maybe basic slab shots of everything except moderns?
I appreciate your thoughts on this one but offer another possibility!
I own one of the TPG certified "1872-S" seated half dollars; the coin is struck from dies made from different coins. The obverse is a Philly 1872 by die state, the reverse an 1875-S and the reed count of the edge 1876...
If you were to send all of the PCGS slabbed coins back to PCGS would they be 100% guaranteed to pick out any slabs which might be non-PCGS? How should they go about identifying the slabs as genuine from here on out?
RE: Counterfeit PCGS Holders.
The counterfeiter to date has only counterfeited the PCGS 6.0 blue and white label on the front and the reverse has the QR code. There is an easy pick up point on the reverse of the holder. When printing the the reverse label where the G connects to the line through PCGS, there is darker ink on all of the counterfeit slabs. See counterfeit slab below note the area circled in yellow. There are other PUP on the fake holder, but I am not going to give that information up at this time. The above information is a quick check if you are buying a 6.0 version PCGS holder. All the reverse counterfeit slabs in this thread and the other counterfeit slab thread have the same darker ink area. On a genuine holder the darker area is usually the same color, but some genuine holders have a darker tint in the same area.
Reverse of counterfeit slab below:
Genuine 6.0 PCGS holder:
This is old news.
The counterfeiters have been particularly interested in OGH/CAC because there are no TrueViews.
Collectors think they are getting a "pre-gradflation" holder & a bean.
All the numbers match & the code will scan.
All the coins I've seen are obvious but that doesn't keep people from buying them.
There is a really long thread about this over at CoinTalk.
My Saint Set
I had noticed previously on the reverse label how the letters do not connect to the gold cross bar like the original. Appears this reverse label is a little more difficult than it appears.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I wonder how many forum members are directly affected by this?
There can certainly be an indirect effect if the entire market is affected, but I wonder how many people here buy the kinds of coins that are targeted.
@pocketchange we are in agreement that the True View is not needed for security with NFC technology. As a buyer of PCGS holders, I would like a consistency of photos. When looking at a online photo from different sellers (eBay, auction house, dealer website, etc.), the consistency of photos leaves a lot to be desired. If all future classic coins had a Ture View photo, it would help when purchasing PCGS plastic online.
I think the even bigger threat is to people like me who are still learning to grade and are drawn to the supposed security of the TPG slabs and beans... They can be very alluring to novices and this is all quite disconcerting.
If I spend thousands or even hundreds on a coin and later want to sell it to only find out its a fake, that will crush us smaller investors/collectors, and could cause people like me to shy away from what would otherwise be a legitimate sale from more established collectors like many here.
Ultimately as I see it, it will hurt the smaller guys first, but if it becomes too prolific a problem could hurt the bigger guys ultimately by shrinking the overall market through trust concerns/issues. Just like I found out that the gold Indians are the most counterfeited coin and now am much more leery of purchasing them unless they are slabbed or its a reliable source...
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin